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Creativity isn’t tidy—it’s risky, chaotic, and full of surprises. It’s full of breakthroughs and breakdowns, moments of flow and moments of doubt. Join Mishu Hilmy for unfiltered conversations with artists, filmmakers, musicians, and fearless makers who thrive in the unknown, embrace imperfection, and create at the edge of possibility.
This is your front row seat to the self-doubt, unexpected wins, and messy emotional work of making something real. But craft isn’t just about feeling—it’s about problem-solving, process, and the devotion behind mastery.
Subscribe now for weekly episodes that celebrate the unpredictable, the playful, and the deeply human side of making things. Join the mailing list at mischiefpod.com
Email anytime at podcast@ohhmaybe.com and follow us @mischiefpod
Mishu Hilmy (00:03)
Welcome to Mischief in Mastery, where we embrace the ups, downs, and all around uncertainty of a creative life, and that steady, and sometimes not so steady journey toward expertise. Each episode we talk candidly with people I know, people I don't know, folks who produce, direct, write, act, do comedy, make art, make messes, and make meaning out of their lives. You will hear guests lay out how they work, what they're thinking about, where they get stuck, and why they snap out of their comfort zones and into big, bold, risky mo-
So, if you're hungry for honest insights, deep dives into process philosophies and practical tips, plus maybe a little mischief along the way, you're in the right place. For more, visit mischiefpod.com. Hello everyone, this is Mishu. Welcome to Mischief and Mastery. Thanks for tuning in. Today we're talking with a friend of mine, Jamie Creppen. Jamie is a Chicago-based film and theater maker dedicated to uplifting women and femme voices with a deep focus on community building and arts education.
She co-founded Room 19 Productions and serves as the technical director and film coordinator at the Warren Township High School, while also organizing the Film Girls Brunch Networking Series. Her work spans directing, producing, casting, and live events coordination, some standout
credits include Roller Babies, which is a feature film she's directing in post-production, feature film she worked on co-produced called Year One, and the play Pussy Sludge. Jamie and I have worked together and it's been a delight getting to work together. She was the first AD on one of my shorts, A Political. So what do we chat about? We talk about coming of age stories, the delight of indie theater and film, and how she turned a short about roller skating stoners into a full blown feature film. We also get into editing fatigue.
manicure continuity and why post-production takes way longer than you think. You can learn more about Jamie at Room19Productions. That's rm19productions.com and follow her on Instagram at j underscore Kreps as well as rm.19productions. I'll have that on the show notes. And also be on the lookout for more info on her feature film Roller Babies as well as more work upcoming with Room19 and the Film Girls Brunch networking series that happen, I believe monthly. So follow her to learn more.
Mishu Hilmy (02:15)
And yeah, I hope you enjoy the conversation. It's a nice time getting to share time with Jamie. So here we are, me and Jamie.
Yeah, I mean, I think I'm finishing up Roller Babies, which is my feature film I've been working on and editing for the past couple of years now. So we're in V2 of that edit. So that's been a big project. I do Expo Chicago every year in the spring. So I do some of my...
events kind of dip my toes into the fine art world, which is always fascinating. And I produced a play as well, Pussy Sledge, with Facility Theatre. So that was a big lift as well this spring, I think.
Yeah, I felt bad. missed pussy sludge. was in LA and just dates didn't align. Yeah, so was kind of three, like three main things like just working on the edit for roller babies, this expo Chicago and then you were directing or producing that play. So like how is the approach different from say producing a play versus producing directing roller babies?
Yeah, I feel like it's interesting, you know, coming from the theater world, like I got my degree in theater and started out in the storefront theater scene. And when I made the leap into film, I was like, my gosh, so much shorter than theater. This is amazing. Like theater, you're rehearsing for weeks and weeks and weeks till you finally get it up. And I was a stage manager. So, you know, I was there Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday for
Jamie Kreppein (03:43)
shows and then I realized the post-production drag of film is way longer than theater. So I really tricked myself there. But I think, I don't know, I feel like there's so much to borrow from. I want to like do more theater-y things in film and more film-y things in theater. feel like there's a lot to learn in each area.
Yeah, yeah.
Jamie Kreppein (04:06)
I don't know. think theater does a lot in the room and is very, very collaborative and I think very, very scrappy by its nature. I think the world of film has a lot more toys and a lot more money and a lot. Even in the indie scene, there's a lot more money in film. I don't know. I think there's things to borrow from both.
Yeah, for theater, like, all you need is space and technically you don't even need that versus like, you know, film, it's like you need technology to capture it and space. just think it's a little bit more resource intensive than say like DIY theater might be.
Yeah, so think, you know, some things with I think theater can learn from film like, hey, let's let's pay people. Let's let's try to get this business to the next level. And with, you know, with film, it's like, OK, maybe we don't need to use money to throw at this problem. Maybe we can solve this problem in a different way. Maybe we don't need like a new piece of equipment. Maybe we can just make it work now.
And like when it comes to say at least a film and sitting with post-production, because I know we've talked about like the long edits, like having the footage and then it just sits under hard drive for like four years. I imagine like with a team, like with Driller Babies, you probably have a team. like, is like, is the delay a lot just kind of because it's sort of at the in-deep budget level that you don't want to put too much pressure on getting a cut wrapped up or like what's been kind of the struggle or the challenge with going through post-production or the edits?
Yeah, totally. mean, people always say this is such a classic thing, but like, you know, you can make things, what is it? Fast? High-end quality. But you can only have two of those. So for roller babies, I'm like, all right, we can make this quality and we can make this cheaply, but that means, you know, my editor, Matthew Freer, great, great editor. You know, if, if he gets a gig that's paid, he's got to take that.
Mishu Hilmy (05:41)
Yeah
Jamie Kreppein (05:59)
Same with me. So it's been the two of us kind of going back and forth like, I've got a paid gig this week. Now I have a paid gig. So I think that slows things down. But like, that's just a nature of making a 15K feature film. Right. You know, he's donating a lot of his time, even though it's my project. I'm also putting in a lot of free labor. So I think we just have to like give it that space and allow it to take the time it's going to take. Otherwise, it just turns into something not sustainable.
At the end of the day, it's fun, right? Art?
Yeah, you overall like from sort of pre-production to where you're at now? Like what's the percentage of fun this have you had for this this?
mean, it's a roller babies. It's slapstick queer stoner comedy. It's just loads of fun from beginning to end. I've been really, really enjoying that process. I think there's lots of laughter in the edit room. There was lots of laughter as we filmed it. You know, all of us just crying, watching the monitor, just an absolute blast. So I think that's what I have to remind myself on when the slog of it gets a little much.
which I felt like I hit sort of between V1 and V2. I'm like, okay, V2 is getting close, but we also have to animate and we also have to put music and sound effects. So it just felt like all of a sudden, like five more pass throughs was stretching out before me.
Mishu Hilmy (07:23)
Jack Crowley is like just the impatience of it of like to want to see it move forward. But then you're just kind of stuck where you're at because of people's schedules and whatnot. Do you have like a sort of soft deadline or a goal of like we want to get this picture locked or kind of done by the end of summer or have you put the pressure of deadline?
Yeah, I mean, I've always said this summer I would definitely like to start showing people, which I think even if it's not completely done, there's lots of folks who worked on it and are looking forward to even seeing a draft. So I think, you know, having that deadline in mind is like this summer we're going to at least start showing people. But I think the animation and this music is going to take a lot longer than I'm anticipating.
Yeah. Which my producer, one of my producers, Julia Rolova, friend of ours, you know, she's like, let's say fall. So I tend to like give myself unrealistic deadlines. Of course you're sad when you don't make it.
Yeah, have you at least like clocked an animator or a composer?
We're working with Yushin to do some composing. One of my favorite movies is Clueless and I love, I think I have the record of that soundtrack. I think it's just so iconic and one thing I love about it is all these different bands in it. And I think there's a way to do it on the indie level, working with smaller bands, working with folks who haven't quite blown up yet.
Jamie Kreppein (08:53)
So I think there's still a lot of work to be done to find that. But some of the original songs, Yushin is already working on. Of course, it's Roller Babies, so there's a musical number, there's a trippy sequence, you know. So I think there's going to be lots of different ways we're going to put together the soundtrack and talking to some animators too. But definitely I think I've been procrastinating on.
the animator side specifically?
Yeah, and just gathering, you know, the bands as well, just gathering like all these other like little folks who are doing maybe one tiny piece of it. All of those folks need to get hired and onboarded.
Yeah, like, I don't know, sometimes it's just like, can't even deign to send an email. Like some days I'm just like, I just, can't, I can't look up someone's portfolio or go to their website and send an email. like not that hard to do, but some days it's just.
Realistically, probably a 10, 15 minute task. It's incredible how long I'll procrastinate a 10, 15 minute task.
Mishu Hilmy (09:53)
Yeah, and so for like for this one, like because I know room 19 does a fair amount of productions, shorts and features like what what how did you get connected with this and go like, I want to direct this or or we're going to choose to like produce this on our slate.
Yeah, I mean, I think with, you know, with Room 19, we're obviously focused on women-led content and stories about women, crews that are made up of majority women, but that obviously still leaves such a, I don't know, a wide berth of stories to choose from. And I think we are driven towards comedy for sure. We're driven towards kind of like a
a coming of age or with roller babies almost a delayed coming of age. That's sort of second coming of age in your twenties. So I think those stories for both room 19, but particularly me within room 19, I'm very drawn to those stories. And I, when I,
sort of originally began talking to Edwina and Daisy, who are the writers and stars of this project. They had originally actually just made a short film and just had written a short script and they were looking to produce that. And I was like, you know what? I love these characters. Like, let's, let's make this a feature. Why not? We had, you know, we had sort of been part of this little collective of folks making different, different features, different projects at super low budgets. So for me, I think I was ready to, after
Having made a couple shorts, I was ready to take the leap into future land. And I felt like Roller Babies was such dynamic characters that was begging for a larger story. So I worked with them to develop the script into a full length, kind of took that idea and ran with it. Dwayna and Daisy are super, super creative. So they came back with, think, a behemoth of a script, like three hours long. And so we then sort of...
Jamie Kreppein (11:52)
did some readings, cut it down further, got some feedback to turn it into the script that we eventually shot. But it was cool, kind of starting from a short or a proof and just not even bothering with shooting it and just going right to the feature.
I think we might chat about it, but it was mostly shot exteriors and it was like every other, every weekend type of thing. Or did you commit like, we have 10, 10 straight days this random, you know, summer.
We did do a solid two weeks at the beginning. Then sort of from there, was like, okay, we've got a lot of this to shoot and nothing else. No other shoot dates scheduled. We knew it would only be about two thirds of the project, but we wanted to get started. So I think ultimately it was the right move because.
I remember talking to folks just being like, you you're making a feature. did you, have you started the script? Like, are you guys in development? And we're like, no, we shot last summer. And people are like, what? Already? How? So we kind of just leapt right into that side of things. And it allowed us to get the brunt of the photography out of the way. And then we did a second crowdfunding campaign, raised a little more money.
did some pickup shoots, but yeah, we were doing pickup shoots, if you could even call them that, because it was still really the principal photography. We were doing those like a whole year later. Yeah.
Mishu Hilmy (13:14)
I think that's kind an interesting challenge for both the actors as the director, like maintaining sort of an energy thread or an emotional thread or even a kinetic thread. So like, how did you prepare? Maybe you knew that's what was going to pan out or you didn't, but like, how did you prep to go, okay, this is story day four, or, you know, this is kind of an arc moment. Like, what was the preparation like for that gap of time?
Yeah, think Roller Babies is such a road trip comedy at its core. You know, they're on foot on roller skates, but to me, that is the narrative structure that makes sense and sort of meeting these wacky characters along the way. And so we did most of the principal photography like those two weeks, we did all of the road trip stuff, which is when they actually like made it out.
on their skates and are skating around the city. And that allowed us to use the pickup shoots for a lot more just niche indoor scenes, which is very few and far between in roller babies. So we shot.
some indoor stuff, kind of in the winter, we were able to do that. And since it was most of the indoor stuff was either the very beginning of the one day in which the film takes place, it allowed them to be in sort of a different mindset. You know, they're getting ready for their day, they're tired, they just woke up. So we didn't have to deal with super crazy continuity jumps. But there was a couple pickups we still ended up, you know, having to do that were part of that.
once they're out on the town, all of those sequences. So that took a little bit more work. The biggest thing, you know, you don't anticipate is like, we have to pay for the actors to get manicures again. But they had these gorgeous little claws all painted up and we had to get that done again. We had to get haircuts again. So when you're working on a really small budget, like all that stuff mattered a lot. And I think for one of the second.
Jamie Kreppein (15:04)
pick up shoots, just couldn't afford a manicure again. So I had to just fake it with some stick on nails. So there's all these little details that you just don't think about. Like, yeah, your hands have to look the same.
great sort of manicure continuity.
Yeah, continuity is very important for this project.
I'll be looking at the edits. I do think there's something like maybe freeing or daring to go, all right, we can try and get the majority of our photography within these two weeks, but also being okay with the challenges and the budget constraints. We'll see each other in six months and we'll do some shoots. Do you know what the makeup of the percentages, is it 80 % those 40 days and 20 % the pickup shoots, or is it 60-40, just a rough number?
I think probably 60, 40, I think in our heads it was going to be like 70, 30 and then it sort of gave me a note. We missed a few things. There's some things that's just like, as a director, I was like, oh, it's fine. We'll just get that later. And then as the producer, I'm like, why did I
Mishu Hilmy (16:09.96)
Yeah. So like, there some degree of rewriting that might have occurred over the span of time or also any like doubts, directorial doubts of like, shoot, we might need to explain this or amplify this even more.
I do think we did switch up the beginning a lot. The very opening scene ended up being completely rewritten. Honestly, because I think we originally had to start out with a classic alarm clock moment. I think I was listening to a panel or some podcast, but someone completely roasted that as the classic short film opening. Yeah, exactly. So we're like, oh my God.
We have to change this. And we also felt like, you know, it was sort of a funny moment that led us to like why we changed it. But ultimately, this is such a wacky film that we wanted something. We needed a wackier start to let the audience know the ride they're in for right away. And just having the girls wake up and get started with their day just wasn't going to wasn't going to be the way to do that. Yeah. I won't give it away. It's quite fun.
And like puppetry and animation?
...puppetry involved.
Jamie Kreppein (17:24.642)
Yeah, come on. Gotta have it all.
lovely. then like Edwina and Daisy wrote it, like what's your relationship with the collaborative process around like producing, directing, and like maybe managing a script or kind of putting your imprint on the script?
I mean, it's funny, originally was a writing major. I was a theater and a writing major. I really thought I would be focused on writing. And then once I graduated, never wanted to touch a keyboard again. I tried to write. I I wrote a couple of shorts, but just didn't have fun with the process and kind of found much more of a love in devising, in workshopping, in editing pieces.
Yeah.
Jamie Kreppein (18:07.948)
I do have some script ideas bubbling around still that I might write one day, I don't want to put pressure on myself with that. think my skill set in a collaborative environment is much more in the producing directing side. So when I find someone like Edwina, and she'll say this too, particularly Daisy.
has just oodles of creative energy coming out of her, has such a gorgeous repertory in her head of all the films she's ever seen. She's very well read, very well watched. So I think both Edwina and I were just like, let's bring Daisy's vision to life. Edwina very much was the project manager of writing the script and making it happen. It's tough to write a script in a pair. So I think they also kind of find their own roles in that partnership.
And then with my producing experience with Room 19 and the theater world before that and events, it was a great partnership and I think we'll definitely be continuing it on future projects. It was a blast working with you.
Yeah, I think there's something really creatively fulfilling of being sort of the divisor or the editor at the directing side or even the producing side to see at least versions and iterations of the script and seeing how they can be made simpler or better, especially like when it comes to producing, if you're like, oh, well, I like this scene, but can we make it maybe not a party at night on a boat, you know, and doing something different. So throughout that process, did you find that you also helped kind of guide a fair amount of the revisions or the changes?
Yeah, think the big, definitely putting that producer hat on, the big thing was for us, not a nighttime boat seat, but a full game show. And I was like, guys, we got to cut the game show. So it did take some, you know, that was definitely like a moment for them, the writers where we were going back and forth on that. But I found that ultimately just like.
Jamie Kreppein (19:57.752)
putting together a read through and having people say the words and have it take a full three hours was enough for them to be like, okay, you're right. But it did take that.
Like a 180 page script? Yeah. Wonderful. for you, what was your preparation work in terms of... Because this is also a pretty... Sounds like a hard comedy. So what's your approach in terms of breaking down the scenes, shot structures, and managing the creative comedic tone?
I go back and forth, honestly, on whether I want my shot list to be super prescriptive, super open-ended. And I think as we filmed Roller Babies, I took the slightly more open-ended approach just because...
At some point you just need the coverage and if you just don't get the coverage you just don't have it. And so I think for me starting in from a place of like, okay, wide, medium, close. What could each of these moments be? And you can have some fun within those kinds.
confines, but like, I don't know, I think when I first started in the film world, I was very much excited by all these different shots and felt like every moment of the script needed like three or four shot options. And when you're doing a feature, it's such a different behemoth than a short. You got to just start with the basics and then I hope you have time for something fun too, but.
Jamie Kreppein (21:26.54)
I don't know, I felt like it was easier for me to go through scene by scene having those basics and then I could pull out like little moments that have specific references, whether for me or from Daisy, who had a lot of thoughts on that too. You know, whether it was from a movie or I use a lot of sketch comedy, like there are plenty of SNL sketches like in my repertoire as like genuine inspiration. just, I come back to them over and over again because I think sketch
does a lot of play with genre. So when you're thinking about genre and thinking about the tropes that we can play off of, like going straight to parody can be really helpful. Pulling out those things that people notice over and over again in different genres and in different tropes, I think is fascinating. I love a cheesy moment.
because I think it's fun to twist it on its head afterwards. And I also think your audience needs something to grab onto, especially with comedy, like what makes people laugh. There is a consistency to it, whether you go by the rule of threes or different concepts like that. Having that sort basic comedic knowledge is, I think, super valuable. I know that answered the question. I think comedy works in comedy too.
Yeah, think it's it's like a matter of tools, know, yeah, clarity and context are really important, you know, for comedy. So if it's not clear who these people are, what the context is, it's like the jokes might not work. But I think having a muscle memory from whether, you know, sketch or genre deconstruction or parody really makes shooting the things that might be more referential or even tipping the hat into parody easier to know how to like relate.
go 100 percent versus half bake it. Yeah, shot listing. Yeah, I think it's like a fast and loose shoe. Sometimes it is just like, all right, let's get our key coverage. Once we see it on its legs a few times, we can maybe get a little bit more creative. It seems like a pretty quick go from development to production. Did you have time to rehearse or was it mostly like, and they're acting in it as well, so they also wrote it. Second question is, how tight were you when it comes to like,
Mishu Hilmy (23:41.706)
knowing the lines, but did you also have time to rehearse?
Yeah, I think we definitely put some rehearsal time in. think that was important. Daisy and Edwina are also kind of from a theater background, so it's hard to let go of the table work thing for me. find that very valuable. Just having those times where you can sit together outside of set and just talk about the project.
Obviously, we had a lot of that with them wearing the writers hat. So I think that was a challenge to like throw those hats off and get right into acting for Edwina and Daisy. But I think the most valuable thing we did was just taking the time, even when we're producing and directing and writing and acting as a group, just to take that time while we're on set.
run through the scene a couple times. We were able to do that while we were doing setup. I'm a first AD too, so I think I'm always looking for little pockets of time and I'm seeing kind of where all the pieces are moving. So it's pretty easy for me as a director to be like, all right, we clearly, got 10, 15 minutes right here. Like let's run the scene right now.
Yeah. And like, how is your relationship with time having done AD work and sort of not being on the directing side? Like, what was the approach for getting your sort of schedule ready and what was your relationship with your AD?
Jamie Kreppein (25:00.62)
Well, the AD was also sort of me. I think Julia stepped in a couple of days as well. The two of us are a good team, I think. that, yeah, we both have both of those sides of those brains. We both have the directing creative side that wants to forget about time. And we also have that, you know, producer AD side that wants all the logistics to click in perfectly. So.
you
Jamie Kreppein (25:28.878)
I don't know for me, kind of like being my own first AD because I know how to do it. And I'm, think picky about the energy that the timekeeper brings to the room. I've had thoughts on this as a stage manager too. I have thoughts on it as a first AD. know, there's a lot of folks who view that role as just the drill sergeant, the person scolding everyone. And I think if you...
bring that energy into the wrong kind of space, it can really kill the creativity in my opinion. So for me, I'm picky about who that person is. And if I don't think I have that person, like I'd rather do it myself. I feel like it's my most like bratty director thing. I'll do it myself. But I think it's helpful to have, you know, a person like Julia, who's also my producing partner. To be on said, we have, we've known each other since we were
I don't know, eight, ten. So we don't even have to speak to each other to keep the time. Yeah, I think I, as a stage manager too, as a first AD, I enjoy playing that role as well. And I enjoy, I'm not a director that wants to only be a director. like to.
I that role and I like to be that person helping other people bring their vision to life. It's kind of satisfying to me in a different way. So, I don't know, that's always been sort of my artistic identity, I guess, is just being sort of this jack-of-all-trades, enjoying being in all of these different roles and doing something different on every project. Because at the end of the day, I enjoy just being part of the collaborative group and making a story and it doesn't have to be mine.
Right.
Jamie Kreppein (27:19.822)
And even as the director, always say like, I'm merely the funnel. Like I'm not an auteur. I like to be a funnel. I like to just truly facilitate. Like I enjoy facilitation. I enjoy devising. I think being that person in the room, you can fulfill that role as a director, as a first aid, as a stage manager.
Yeah, I think there's a degree of satisfaction to contribute to a collective vision versus getting hung up on the ego of the authorship of, well, this is my opus, this is my piece, rather than if you approach it from a more collaborative way of, I think that a collaborative director can maybe have an integrity around, do we all agree this is the story we're going to tell?
maybe the shared vision and having some degree of taste and perspective on it, but to not necessarily be motivated. Like, this is my thing and you're all just like tools and puppets to express my thing. And there's naturally a balance because like at the end of the you are directing this piece, but it seems like at least you typically approach it for more of a, but we're all connected to this project and we're all having here for fun. So let's make this at least as consistent as possible. But I imagine most folks are on the same page of the vision versus this is
purely your vision.
Totally. And I think too, like, yeah, you can absolutely swing too far that way and then be, you know, very indecisive. Like at the end of the day, yes, you know, you're the funnel, but the funnel, like it has some solidity to it. It's guiding people towards the same direction. And I think, you know, as the director being ready to like make those decisions, as long as you've talked with your team and you guys, like you said, know this kind of division you guys are all striving to.
Jamie Kreppein (29:08.162)
for the director should be that person to like make the decision if folks are not agreeing or if someone has a suggestion and it doesn't serve the project. You also have to be not afraid to like gently shut that down. So I think I definitely as a bit of a people pleaser struggle with that side of things. Like you said, it's a happy medium between I think those two.
Yeah, and this, you know, it is coming from that sort of side because there's a world of sort of decentered creative work where there is no director. There's just, you know, co-devisors, co-directors. But if the, for the most part, the project is initiated in a sort of hierarchical manner and non-decentered manner, there's still ways to, you know, do it hierarchically that are at least somewhat balanced. But yeah, the urge to people please can be a challenge. yeah, I think that's also where maybe like the boundary of producing and directing also becomes difficult because it's like, well, as the
person producing this, I'm thinking about the clock and thinking about the budget and the person directing this, I'm thinking about the creative energy and how I don't want to spoil that. And I think it becomes very hard if you're like, shoot, this is, these are kind of conflicting with each other.
Totally. That's why I tend to go for the creative ideas that I know are achievable, which can certainly, I don't know, sometimes put a little mental block for me, but it's hard. wear both those hats, so I don't see myself ever taking one or the other off.
Yeah, yeah. And I think that's where it comes to like maybe setting expectations or who is your team. So like I imagine, you know, like what, how do you set expectations, for example, for this project, right? It's pretty tight knit. I imagine collaborative team and pretty shoestring. So did you have explicit conversations from, you know, development and pre-production and how did those sort of evolve or get returned to?
Jamie Kreppein (30:52.814)
conversations like about
Like expectation setting, like, hey, look, this is, you know, we're doing, we're down to do it through room 19. We're friends. We also liked this script, but you know, this is what I think it should be like. So did you have like core, explicit conversations around, you know, certain milestones throughout production and now post-production?
For this project, it's been interesting because kind of through post-production, I have taken on much more of that traditional role of the director. I've very much been the one, you know, along with Matthew guiding that process. So while the beginning was very much like everyone has a creative voice, we're all kind of molding this story together. I think.
I've definitely, once the two of them sort of handed off the script to me, it was my responsibility, especially because they're actors as well, and they're not going to be able to see, you know, they can't sit in video village and shape the story. They really trusted me to take it and run with it. And I think with the power of
of their creativity and their references. Like there were some things that I hadn't even seen the movie, but they just wrote it so prescriptively that like you couldn't help but just achieve that vision. So I think there were certainly things that they had thoughts on at the beginning and we shared references together and kind of built those references together. But once we got into shooting, it was very much like, well, I dumped the most money into it. I have been kind of, you know,
Jamie Kreppein (32:21.858)
being the person leading this charge and hiring the crew and continuing to edit after, I think there luckily hasn't been too many cuts in the kitchen there. But I think just expectation-wise, I definitely like to set expectations with the whole crew right away that I'm open to ideas and open to a collaborative environment. And I think you do have to reiterate that on every project because not everyone is like that.
Yeah. As we discussed, and folks do kind of need that welcome in order to feel comfortable to like start sharing their ideas, I think. So I think setting those expectations like in the safety meeting even. Yeah. Like, let's have fun today. Let's, you know, let's collaborate.
Let's be creative. think setting those daily expectations is also, it's just something you have to continue to reiterate, continue to keep part of your creative process to be a collaborator and to be open to folks' ideas. And then we were able to do that and folks to be like, this is a cool shot. Should we do this? And I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm the AD, I don't have to ask.
Yeah. I know we talked about it during this short that you aid for for me, like vigilance checks, like every 40 to 60 minutes, just kind of like check in with the cast and the crew to be vigilant, like a little way to set expectations. And I just read something about Jill Solway, who directed, think, you know, transparent and I love Dick, I think around the box where like before before shooting every day, they have a box on set. I think probably during the time where you do the safety meeting.
where it's just like a box, everyone circles around it and anyone can just kind of stand up and talk and they chant like box, box, box, box. And people get on it and talk about it. So it's like that thing of like, you can dictate the tenor of the sets. And I think creating some sort of communal experience or expectation setting probably benefits like.
Mishu Hilmy (34:12.81)
Spending 20 to 25 minutes to get everyone like jazzed or present or aligned is like not 20 minutes wasted versus I think some folks might even skip a safety meeting and just be in such a rush to like get to shooting that it's yeah, I don't think I align with that approach I'm more of like hey like why are we doing this if not for sort of presence and fun and connection and community sort of creating your
Yeah, I think it goes back to what we talking about with theater versus film. Theater, yeah, we don't skip the warmups. We do warmups and we do them as a group. Maybe it's not just the actors doing it, think, especially in a rehearsal environment, bringing everyone.
assistant director participate, have the director participate, have the stage manager participate. Like why do they have to sit in the corner the whole time, you know? But just having that moment of starting and I'm still experimenting with ways to bring that into film more and I don't know, working on my yoga certification. So maybe we can do some yoga at moment. Like what's happening?
Some stretch work, some stretches, some breathing. I think it's like you get to create sort of the experience and this book, one of the guests, Armin Corso, has recommended The Art of Gathering and it's something about like, I never really thought about etiquette this way, but etiquette's about following the rules of like a homogenized group and most sets maybe historically have actually been pretty homogenized, just like, know, men in their mid to, you know, mid 30s to mid to late 60s. So I think that
set etiquette has been created by a homogenized group from the past 80 to 100 years. But to move away from homogenous etiquette and going toward like, well, no, we create the rules of play and to really honor that versus I just don't like the spirit of the defaults. Well, this is what sets I've been on felt like and this what they have to be in. Especially at the indie level, if you're not doing it on a degree of community and play, I think there's a lot of room for unnecessary friction.
Jamie Kreppein (36:17.442)
Mm-hmm. Totally. Yes. Love The Art of Gathering. Thought that was a great book. And yeah, it sort of does speak to what we're talking about. was like, you know, do you let something be more free flowing or do you sort of create that funnel around it? And I thought The Art of Gathering, like, just had some incredible advice in it about that and stuff that I sort of had been thinking the opposite way on of, just...
You know, because I obviously throw a lot of events as well. I I approach my productions the same way I approach my events. I think there was a time where I sort of like allowed my pendulum to swing to the, let's just keep it chill. Let's be super open-ended with saying something she talks a lot about in the art of gathering is like, no, create a little set of rules for this specific event. what are we all?
What are we all gathered here for? Like, be clear about that. You know, be clear who's part of this event. Right. The second chapter is like exclude people, which is hilarious. I was like, oh my God, that's the exact opposite of how I thought about things. I always want everyone to be included. do think there's a lot with including, you know, being super, super inclusive on events that is super valuable, but also
You you can't let an event get too big. Otherwise it starts diluting the purpose. can't let an event, you know, get too diluted with folks who like maybe aren't in the industry you're serving or what have you. So I think, yeah, there's a lot that really just changed my perspective on things in that book as well. And that kind of creating that structure can allow people to do their best creative free flowing work more than an environment that's just like.
Do whatever you want.
Mishu Hilmy (38:08.43)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, you know, the freedom through constraints and clarity. yeah, the risk of being too chill is just like, no one wants to take responsibility or abdicating your responsibility as a producer, as a director on it. Like, whether it's like people pleasing or fear or just no, it's just all chill vibes. And then like nothing gets done. it's just like, DP is pissed because you're like, what? Like, why are we here? I've been on like student film sets.
maybe 10 years ago that felt very, very cool, very chill and nothing got done in an efficient manner. So like when it comes to like, know, room 19, you've also like done a fair amount of events and I think maybe last few years, very aggressively creating events, but maybe kind of simplifying that. like what's, what's been, you know, your experience when it comes to say, bringing people together for maybe a non-set activity versus, you know, building a team for production.
I guess it's a continuation on what we've been kind of talking about already, but the like events versus set I think is they should be treated the same way and I treat I'll treat you know a house party that I'm throwing the same way as I do a film girls brunch event because I think When you're bringing folks together like there's a lot that just psychologically
that we're going to just do as humans every time. As I kind of, you know, talked about before, like giving people that invitation to speak, the invitation to connect in different ways. think people...
very much need that, whether you're on a film set or a house party or a networking event. And I think I've thrown enough of them where I've started to experiment a little bit where it's like, okay, let's see if I cut corners here. Is this actually necessary? And I found every time, no, it is. think I approach, with my casting as well, I did a lot of casting in the past couple years as well. I think...
Jamie Kreppein (40:13.134)
Over and over again, I would hear feedback from actors being like, this was amazing. Best audition I've been to in forever. Thank you for communicating with us. So many people ghost us. So many people just don't respond after. I think, like the art of gathering says, every event must have a clear ending. was like, well, that's the same for an audition. Give that person that closure. You're not going to pick them. That's fine. Just give them the closure. And I was shocked.
when I first started running auditions that people were thanking me for rejecting them. They actually would email back and profusely thanked me because so many people had just ghosted them. So I think when we're looking at production or events and even if you're just looking to throw a dinner party, like being deliberate, letting it have a beginning and have an end, even if...
to make a little announcement feels like you're losing the chillness of it is really valuable for people.
Yeah, yeah, definitely that makes sense. Yeah, I relate to that. Doing so much theater work and acting, like when I started doing casting work, just, yeah, I send like a two-sentence email. Or occasionally I'd write a really long personal email, like how strong their performance was, but just not right for the role. Yeah, it's like a kind gesture. It all does take a degree of time, but I'm glad to hear that's like something that you're mindful of and value.
Yeah. And I think it's, it's a thing that I talk a lot about. It's like, yeah, it does take more work. Does like what the casting thing, you know, I, there was one casting I did where I was like, okay, let me try to automate more of this process. And we got so many last responses. So it's like, okay, so here's where I tried to cut a corner and like, just, didn't even work.
Jamie Kreppein (42:02.752)
So I think experimenting with that as well and like, OK, what what happens if we don't do the announcement at the beginning of this event? Are people going to connect the same way? And oftentimes, like, no, you know. So when film girls brunch, like I think a huge value of film girls brunch is that people are very, very willing to like break out of their little groups they've arrived in or people they might know. And people are are great at just walking around, chatting, moving tables. Right.
And it's something that won't necessarily happen if like we as the hosts don't encourage it. I think there are rare events where you might be able to make it happen without the host doing it. If you've got like a really extroverted, but you know, it can, it can sometimes work if you have a very extroverted guest who's willing to sort of do this facilitation. If that person doesn't exist and you as the host aren't doing it, it's not happening.
You're trying to get people to gather and ideally bring out a version of themselves that's either a little bit more vulnerable or willing to explore and connect. it's like similar, whether it's gathering or directing. yeah, having those constraints is, yeah, getting, a bit of some of the chillness and creating some rules or daring to just provide some guardrails to make connections. Cause yeah, we've been to networking events where it's like too big, too free flowing.
I know the path of least resistance is just a default to like, I know these two people. I'm just going to hang out for the next two and a half hours with these two people. And then nothing really gets explored or learned.
Yeah. And I think I'm in, I don't know, I guess the rare position of being a person who loves to like be out and social and hang with folks, but I am, shy. Like I, I will not do that if people do not invite me. That's part of the reason I'm sure I love hosting events so much is cause you know, everyone comes to me. I'm in charge. Convenient. But as a guest, I'm like, I'm, I'm, I'm nervous to maybe make that first move. I think.
Mishu Hilmy (43:50.934)
Right.
Jamie Kreppein (43:57.922)
having the host and I think I've been excluded in the past. that those feelings is whether it's middle school or as an adult, like those feelings stick with you.
So the post-production has taken a fair amount of time. How are you dealing with maybe creative renewals? in springtime, and I know in the past we've talked about aligning with nature. How do you create new seedlings of ideas and that you also have other things that are historic freelance work or projects that are underway? What's your next six, 12 months look like that you're excited about?
Yeah, I, well, yes, I do. I do love the seasons. think living seasonally, it seems straightforward, but I feel like we, often don't do it as humans and are just expected to sort of keep a consistent output all year round. And I think it's not great for the average person and very much not great if you're trying to do creative work, allowing yourself that, that space. And I think I've, I've
been super fortunate to sort of create a little freelance life for myself that definitely operates on an annual schedule where I'm doing the same gigs every year at the same times. And then every year at the same times, I also have some time off. feel like early summer, I definitely like to take some time to have some fun, enjoy the summer, do some traveling. So I'll be doing that.
Last summer we did a ton of producing short films through Room 19. So this year, I think taking a little bit more time to number one, finish those projects and sort of develop scripts for new ones. We are producing Amani's short, trying discreetly at the Desert Rose Casino. So that'll be something we're going to start talking about as we gear up to produce that this summer. And then in the fall, I always say.
Jamie Kreppein (45:52.79)
I go back to my high school gig, which is nice. Feels very traditional fall activity to go work with the high schoolers on the fall play that we do. So I helped out the set for that and work with the kids on kind of their crew roles. So that's always fun that that's coming up for me in the fall. But I think this summer I'm just trying to finish Roller Babies, maybe Daydream on the next feature. And as we previously talked about, I have still many
short sitting on my hard drive, ready to be finished. So I think that is a big, big priority for me. And now I'm speaking it into existence on this podcast. So those will get finished this summer. Yeah, I'm excited about that. And I think it's taken, you know, 10 years to build this freelance career, but it is working, you know, I enjoy it. And I think the consistency of
on the record.
Mishu Hilmy (46:36.12)
Bye bye.
Jamie Kreppein (46:49.772)
the gigs I do annually just pairs really nicely with just one off gigs. So, you know, I got the opportunity to work on the bear this year. That was awesome. Doing a little bit more PA and commercial work. Just kind of see what bigger sets are like. But I love the indie stuff, so I'm sure I'll keep doing that.
Any sort of snapshot takeaways from being on a studio or bigger set?
I mean, there's just like, you really are just a little cog in the big machine, which I think for me has definitely some value and just meeting new folks, just watching people operating at that high level is fascinating. And since I was a PA and I was on crowd control, I pretty much just got to watch set all day. So that was super.
It was, was, it's just, think I can always learn something just from like observing folks at work. and the value on a big set like that is that no one is wearing multiple hats. And you get to see them do that for good or for bad, you know.
I'm curious, like, how challenging and uncertain the industry is, like, what, how do you stay connected or how do you stay motivated with either the industry or the creative act?
Jamie Kreppein (48:02.808)
think my answer is the same for both, which is just diversifying all that I do. Number one, like logistically as a freelancer, it allows me to be very agile through just, mean, COVID, I was doing theater during COVID. So it's like, I've already lived in a world where every single gig I was working on was taken away in a night, you know, made it through that. So, and I was able to make it through that by like sort of being able to jump into film instead and, you know.
events, events that are always going to be happening like weddings or things like that. think just diversifying as a freelancer allows me to just be mobile there and keep up a consistent income, even if my gigs dip for months at a time. But I think also it just keeps me entertained as a creative and I just love.
getting new experiences and observing different folks at work, observing different creative processes. You know, my work stage managing Expo Chicago is like, I get to hear about fine artists and painters and how they approach their craft, which is very different. again, filmmakers have a lot to learn from there, especially when you're stuck in that post-production slog, you're a lot more similar to a painter in that time. Someone who just is...
has a studio and needs to just keep cranking on projects and sort of self-motivate in a way that theater artists don't have to. So I really enjoy just observing different creatives at work and finding new opportunities, finding gigs that, I mean, I'll do whatever for money. I painted a dude's house, you know? Like, that's fine. No shame.
And then like what has worked for you at least lately to be self motivated or to behave in a way that is self motivated.
Jamie Kreppein (49:49.314)
I think I definitely struggle with self-motivation for sure. So I feel like I have now all these tools in my toolbox that I'm to use. I think just not letting the guilt consume me is a big thing. That's hard for us as creatives. If I don't...
feel self motivated, but I have a very strict planner, a very strict G Cal, even though I'm, I would consider myself definitely a type B person. I got to borrow from my type A friends there because otherwise I'll go insane. Um, it's a different schedule every day. So yeah, I think being very strict and organized in that side of things has helped a lot. Um, I liked the book Atomic Habits. I that was interesting. You know,
stuff like habit stacking and small micro habits just helped me build my love of reading back up, build daily morning pages, exploring the artist's way, Doing a lot of creative processes, exploring and taking what I like from these books and what I don't like, just leaving.
I love the arts, but I do more in pages, I don't know, 12 years now. yeah, clear as atomic habits, it's really solid. I think guilt is a big, heavy emotional state. think self-motivate, like social pressures helps me self-motivate. Like, oh, if I know I'm going to talk to Jamie at six o'clock today, I better show up. So I resent my calendars, but if it's socially related, I'll probably be more likely to do something to, you get it.
Totally, I agree. As the people pleaser, it helps you have the system. Yeah, I think, yeah, with projects for sure, it's just like, we've been tooling around an idea for a while. Okay, let's put a meeting on the calendar. Let's start it up. Let's do it every two weeks now. I think that has been so valuable. I don't think a single project would have gotten off the ground if I didn't just, you so you just got to take the leap, start scheduling the bi-weekly meeting.
Jamie Kreppein (51:58.038)
Yes, I'm sure we will soon. Love the pod, big fan. So thanks for having me.