From Insurance to Marketing Ft Alyssa Saunders

In this episode of Beyond Titles, Kendra Johnson interviews Alyssa Saunders, the Executive Vice President at Anthologic. Alyssa shares her journey from starting in insurance to discovering her passion for marketing.

The conversation delves into the importance of self-discovery, emotional intelligence in the workplace, and creating a people-first culture. Alyssa discusses the balance between collaboration and focused work, the dynamic nature of measuring success in marketing, and the role of AI in enhancing marketing strategies.

The episode concludes with insights on leadership, vulnerability, and the significance of inviting emotions into the workplace.

• (00:00) - Alyssa's Journey: From Insurance to Marketing Passion
• (03:02) - Navigating Career Transitions and Self-Discovery
• (06:06) - Leadership Lessons from Early Jobs
• (08:52) - Emotional Intelligence in the Workplace
• (11:46) - Creating a People-First Culture
• (15:04) - Balancing Collaboration and Focused Work
• (17:55) - Measuring Success in a Dynamic Environment
• (20:53) - The Role of AI in Marketing
• (23:51) - Innovative Campaigns and Creative Marketing Strategies
• (25:59) - Final Thoughts on Leadership and Vulnerability

career transition, marketing, leadership, emotional intelligence, workplace culture, AI in marketing, creative strategies, self-discovery, team dynamics, success measurement

What is Beyond Titles with Kendra Johnson?

Welcome to Beyond Titles, where we go beyond the Surface to discover the real stories behind the roles in each episode, we invite fascinating guests to share their journeys, expertise and the purpose that fuels their work.

Whether you're looking for inspiration or insight Beyond Titles offers a fresh perspective on the people who make a difference in their fields, tune in and join us as we explore the human side of every profession.

Hi everyone and welcome to this episode of Beyond Titles.

I am so excited and honoured to be joined today by Alyssa Saunders.

Alyssa, I think there's nobody better to do an introduction for you than you.

So if you can tell our listeners a little bit about yourself uh and the journey that
you've been on for the past couple of years.

Yeah, well, thanks for having me, Kendra.

I'm really excited to be here today and having this conversation.

I am the executive vice president at Anthologic.

We are an agency in the Midwest focused on marketing and technology.

I started my career in insurance.

feels like forever ago and through that just kind of use that as a moment to explore my
passions and what I liked and what brought me joy and ended up finding marketing as a true

passion that led me to my career today.

Amazing, amazing.

Thank you.

And it's funny how what you think you want to start out in normally isn't the, you know,
the first path.

So if we can dig into that a little bit and starting in insurance, what was, what was kind
of the TSN turning point for you?

Would you say

Yeah, I think.

A lot of people have this idea when they're, you know, a kid that they have to have this
dream job and that we're supposed to work towards that.

I never really had that.

So when I graduated college with a degree in psychology, I knew I didn't want to keep
going down that path and get my doctorate and all of those things.

So I found myself in this moment of I need a job.

And there was an opening at an insurance agent's office and I decided to take that as an
opportunity to find out what I might actually want to do.

had bills to pay.

So paying my bills was, you know, priority number one at that point right out of college.

But through that, I was able to explore that I really liked strategy.

I really liked finding a process that could be improved.

really liked, you know, talking to people on the phone.

It was as simple as that.

So I use that as an opportunity to keep finding those things that brought me joy and
fulfillment.

uh I ultimately ended up on the corporate side of the insurance world and then found
myself in Mark

And I remember feeling for the first time like, wow, this is that feeling of this is what
I should be doing.

It was all the joy and passion.

Those, you know, Sunday nights where you're like, I got to work tomorrow really didn't
happen for me anymore.

uh So I started just kind of paying attention to those signs and signals and ultimately
found what I wanted to be.

Oh, that is, I love that you talked about the signs and the signals and paying attention
to those data points at the end of the day, right?

That guide us towards what we should be doing um or what we would enjoy doing more and
more.

And I'm sure you had some data points and things that were also telling you, hey, this
isn't for me.

So what were some of those markers where you felt like, hey, this is maybe course
correcting me back to what I want to be doing or steering me away from?

this particular path.

I definitely had those moments.

So I started in.

sales and doing all of those types of things.

And I was talking to people on the phone on a regular basis that did this job called
underwriting.

And I thought, wow, they get to make a lot of decisions.

I like making decisions.

So I became an underwriter.

uh What I didn't realize is that they spend all day in the details in the weeds, really,
you know, doing a lot of math and numbers.

None of those things bring me joy.

In fact, I now know after a lot of introspection and self

discovery that I am a big idea person.

I like to move fast.

The fact that I was ever an underwriter is kind of funny.

In fact, it's a running joke with a lot of my friends who knew me at that point.

So I think when I was doing that, I had this true feeling of this is not for you.

There are people who seem to be really enjoying this and I'm not one of them, but there
are things about this that I do enjoy.

So let's find a way to pivot and use those things and find something else.

Yeah, yeah.

I think it's really funny too, the running joke with your friends because you you had
those introspective moments where you've discovered now what you like to do and obviously

your friends saw that too and your friends knew that about you.

So it is funny sometimes when we, I guess hindsight I should say is 2020, but not just for
us, for the people closest to us as well who see these strengths of ours, right?

absolutely.

Yeah, and so thinking about is, was that the insurance, the insurance company coming out
of college, was that your very first job or did you have an earlier job?

ah You know, kind of a

I've always worked.

think, you know, my first job was babysitting when I was 10 years old and I loved it.

I loved having that responsibility.

I loved people counting on me.

I, you know, I probably was not the best babysitter because I would try to make all the
food and, you know, rearrange the house.

And, you know, now as a parent, I'm like, that might kind of be a nightmare.

But um

So I used that as an opportunity to start making money and doing that early on.

then I life guarded and just kind of worked in like the reception desk at a hair salon.

So always doing a lot of different things to just keep busy and make money and do those
types of things.

Amazing.

I, it's funny, we have a lot of parallels.

I also started babysitting.

I also worked at a reception desk at a hair salon.

Um, I didn't do the whole lifeguarding thing.

I was never that strong of a swimmer, so nobody wants me to save them.

But, uh, it is, it's those kinds of character building moments when you reflect and, know,
those early, we'll call them early life jobs that I think help us become the people we are

today naturally.

So if you think about

your leadership style now, can you attribute any of the traits to, you know, babysitting
when you were 10 and each of those points?

And if so, what are some of those examples?

Yeah, I think, especially in my job in the reception desk and babysitting, there's a lot
of moments where you have a customer who might have a different perspective than you.

They're maybe unhappy or you have to convey a hard message.

Maybe you can't have that prime appointment time that they really want or they're late and
they are not going to be able to have their appointment.

So I learned early on that there's a way to have difficult conversations and that
sometimes people are going to be.

mad at you or not like what you're saying, but that definitely isn't a reflection of you
or even them.

It's more of the situation.

So I think dealing with conflict, having to take on that responsibility at an early age,
problem solve and just work with people.

think that's probably the biggest thing I learned early on is that working with people is
a process.

You always have to be listening and ready to pivot and you just, you just need to be
responsive.

Yeah, and I mean, people are always going to be people, right?

And relatively, to some degree, unpredictable.

knowing that, and I think you articulated it beautifully, that it's more about the
situation, not even about you or where you are, but just the inconvenience of a situation

and misaligned expectations.

So in thinking about now,

where you are in your role and how that translates to your team.

How do you coach your team on having those difficult conversations and what does that look
like from a cultural perspective within your ecosystem?

Yeah, I think in a marketing agency, are all...

various degrees of people who create things and have your own ideas and you put so much of
yourself into the work that you do.

So a lot of the work that I do with my team when we have to have uncomfortable
conversations is to try to get them at a thousand foot view instead of just right in the

situation with the other person.

uh We often make things really personal when they aren't.

uh So I think it's coaching them to find that common ground with the other person that
isn't a me versus them.

situation or an us versus the client situation, finding common goals and common grounds
and then approaching that conversation from a solutions viewpoint is really important.

I think so often we start with a problem and we can start with the solution and that flips
the conversation and puts everybody into a much better headspace to have that

conversation.

Yes, yes, absolutely.

And I mean, you also work in a very fast paced environment and industry where I don't want
to say moods, we'll say expectations change on a dime.

And there is a lot of emotion because people are attached one to the work they do, but
also to what you're delivering to your clients.

uh So when it comes to kind of...

there's two camps of people, let's say.

One camp who say emotions have no place in the workplace, right, which is always very
interesting.

And the other who says emotions help us tell us something.

uh Personally, I'm in kind of that middle bridging the gap and we need emotions to
understand what's happening.

And then we can act on those emotions.

But from uh

From a creative standpoint, how do you work with emotions for yourself or for your team in
order to create a culture that is really productive and respect-based, let's call it.

Yeah, it's interesting you said there's the two camps.

would say.

When I first entered the agency world and coming from a more corporate background, I would
have said, you know, check your feelings out the door.

We have a job to do.

We're here to get things done.

And it's been kind of a fun and eye-opening journey over the last five years to realize
there really is a place for feelings and those conversations at work, especially in a

creative process.

oh But I think what I've learned is we need to acknowledge those feelings and we need to
figure out what the place for those feelings

are, but not every feeling needs an action.

So we can say, I feel upset, I feel disrespected.

And we can sit with that for a second, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we need to
go act on that.

So I think we've been pretty successful in navigating those difficult, emotionally charged
situations, when we let that kind of pass.

And then we have the conversation about what what's the takeaway?

What's the real problem?

What do we need to address?

to keep this from happening again?

Do we have a real disciplinary action that needs to happen or a client that we need to go
talk to or a problem to fix?

Or do we just need to sit with that person and say, let's feel this together and then
let's move on and go do great work.

I love that you said that not every feeling needs an action.

I think that's something that is very under underappreciated and under considered, you
know, and that again comes from just feeling it and acting on it right away rather than

taking the second to the beat to sit with it.

So I think that's a really excellent piece of advice for for anybody listening and

I'm gonna switch gears slightly because I'm starting to pick up and put together the
pieces of a patchwork of your culture.

And I'd love if you could describe your culture a little bit more.

uh What does that look like from how your team acts and integrates with one another?

Are you hybrid?

Are you in-person?

uh Paint a picture for us of what your team's culture looks like.

So we are hybrid, um but we are primarily all in the same geographic area.

So that means we overlap in the office quite a bit, which is great, but everybody has the
flexibility to go do all the things that they need to do.

I think our organization was founded.

It's not unique.

A lot of organizations are people first, but we really try to live and breathe that in our
flexibility in our office policies in things like parental leave.

know that there are going to be times where we demand a lot of time, if there's a
deadline, if there's a hot project, if there's a busy time of the year.

So we try to keep that balance and we're making sure that we're not asking more of our
team than we'd be willing to do for ourselves and that we kind of keep track.

We also have a very empowered leadership team.

They know that if they see someone who needs something, they can go give that to them.

uh

Everybody, you know, necessarily gets the same thing, but it depends on the need, the
situation, and what's gonna make an impact for that individual.

That's incredible.

I mean, to have an empowered leadership team too removes so many bottlenecks.

It keeps everybody happy and gives them those solutions.

Should feelings need to be acted on, gives them those solutions quickly, right?

ah Which I find is when things take longer than they need to because of that lack of
empowerment.

you lose so much trust at all levels.

And so to hear that you've created a culture where that middle band is empowered, I'm sure
has your retention rates to be uh quite high.

Yes.

Yeah.

Well, congratulations on that because most people don't ever get that, um let alone, you
know, creating a culture that embodies that and that really uh drives that.

So...

I love to hear that and in thinking about the flexible work model as well, um for in a
creative environment and because a lot of our clients work in the same industry, in the

creative environment, how important do you think is having one the collaborative time, but
also the time where people can just dig into that focused work and how do you protect that

focused work time for especially creatives?

Yeah, that's a great question.

And I think in a hybrid environment, it can be kind of challenging because if people
aren't in the office together, you have to schedule time.

And, you know, the more meetings you have on your schedule, the less think time and deep
work time you actually have.

So we rolled out probably mid pandemic, this idea of core hours.

So we have a set time during every day, unless you're on PTO, that you have to be
available for meetings.

And it's from 10 to three and outside of

that is kind of protected work time.

If you need to flex, that's a great time to flex and then you know that, you know, maybe
I'll finish this project after my kids go to bed.

So we have this protected work time for collaboration and then also the freedom for some
people to go do, you know, the things in the way that they work best.

Amazing.

So 10 to three is the, you called it core, core time, core hours.

Yes.

And that's five days a week.

Yeah.

Very nice.

And I mean, given time zones and wherever your clients are, those are, those are hours
that would overlap regardless.

uh

I like that because flexibility looks different in different organizations.

So giving your team that opportunity, I love that.

I love the idea of core hours.

think that's really helpful.

And it allows your leadership team, which you've already stated is incredibly empowered,
to then be able to check in with their team members during those times to have a pulse on

what's going on.

uh

And in knowing that, I'd love to dive into a little bit the, not just the expectations of
how the team operates, but expectations of output, knowing that you've got those core

hours.

But what does that look like for you?

How do you measure output and what good versus great looks like?

Yeah, that's a great question.

And I think that's something we're often recalibrating and just trying to figure out
exactly how we measure that.

know, agencies are typically time-based, so that makes it pretty easy when we know, you
know, everybody's tracked a 40-hour work week.

But we also have a lot of KPIs that we're looking at to say, this should go to think time
and this should go to actual client work.

And we're constantly measuring and recalibrating.

I think the key for all of that

is.

Once you figure something out, because we're an agency and marketing is dynamic, it
completely changes.

So we've never committed ourselves to this will be the marker of success for eternity.

We might have something that we finally figured out works well, like utilization reports
are pretty key for us.

know our output is where we need it to be.

If we had an agency are at X amount of utilization across the board.

But we also know that there's different teams, the nature of their work, like a video.

team might not always hit 80, sometimes they'll be at 120 and sometimes they'll be at 40.

So we've kind of tried to figure out what our guardrails on KPIs look like and then we
leave room for the recalibration and the processes to kind of evolve and change along with

the industry.

Yes, adaptability is key.

think for any business uh over the past, we'll call it five to seven years, we've realized
that that is incredibly important and knowing that you bake in the adaptability means that

you're setting yourself up for success and not disappointment in the long term.

uh

super, super important.

And I think more organizations and even in the corporate space could really, could really
lean into that and learn from that.

That there's, I like how you put it, the guardrails where you're within a range, within a
band, you still have those KPIs, but it's not a definite number that is, is likely subject

to change down the road.

Yeah, exactly.

have to constantly ask ourselves what our true north is.

And if you are just following a process or a metric because you always have, it's never a
bad idea to ask yourself if it's still relevant, if we're working towards the right goal,

what's our overarching goal here?

And you've got to make those adjustments quickly and often.

uh

Definitely, definitely.

And so in thinking about your time here over the past five years, what would you say has
changed most drastically from when you started until now?

Yeah, I think everything in marketing continuously changes.

uh Technology is such an influencer in this space.

If you think about, you know, even going back to the beginning of the internet, it's been
something that's disrupted marketing and the way that businesses connect with their

customers.

And especially in the last three years with things like AI and, you know, all Google ads.

SEO, all of those things just continually change the game, but they're making the world
better.

And I think as marketers, we have to figure out how to use that.

So the tools that we use and how we use them have completely changed over the last five
years.

The structure that our teams need to

work in completely changes depending on how we're using tools, what our clients' needs
are.

And then I think customer expectations have changed dramatically in the last five years,
which again, as a marketer, uh you have to pay attention to and adapt to as quickly as you

possibly can.

Definitely, definitely.

you said that the buzzword of the year or the past couple of years, AI.

um And in thinking about using AI from a uh marketing perspective, obviously the tools
allow us to work better and more seamlessly within our teams.

But how important do you think is human connection still, especially in marketing right
now with the emergence of AI?

I think it's incredibly important.

I, we have a philosophy here that there is marketing intelligence and artificial
intelligence.

And if we can blend those two, we are going to be so successful and we're going to be able
to go further faster.

I think AI is here to stay.

think it's going to get more.

in every industry, especially in marketing.

It creates content and so do we.

So our challenge and opportunity is to figure out how to do that in a way that scales
faster, but also you have to have smart strategic thought in order to use tools like AI to

their full capacity.

So there's a world for both things to exist successfully and we're embracing that
wholeheartedly.

I don't think we're of the mindset that you can just turn over all of your

marketing to AI, but I definitely think it can get us further faster, especially with
great strategy behind it.

Yes, yes, I couldn't agree more.

you you said that it's, like marketing intelligence and artificial intelligence and still
nothing will be original thought.

And that's why, that's why brands, that's why people hire you as marketers.

If they wanted just AI marketing, then they could pull up ChatGVT and do it themselves,
right?

But it's the original thought, it's the care, it's the strategy, as you mentioned, that
really drives

drives that need that every business has for marketers to come in and help them elevate
their brands.

Exactly.

And the marketers who use AI well are able to take something that maybe would have taken,

a lot more time and had a very limited use.

One campaign can now be turned into eight different campaigns.

So it's definitely going to scale things and it's going to allow us to go further faster.

But I think it's also going to create more of a shorter cycle of campaigns.

So, you know, you're not creating lasting billboards that will stay up for six to eight
months.

You're creating campaigns that will be out in the wild for a month and then something new
will come out.

So the pace just continues to get faster.

Yes, yes, as does as our attention span shortened, I suppose as well.

Yes.

gosh, which is a funny, funny thing.

uh This is kind of a question out of out of left field here.

But what has been the best or most exciting or most interesting campaign that you've
worked on in in your career?

That is a good one.

ah I think we do a lot of B2B, uh but one of my favorite things that we've been doing a
lot of is influencer in B2B marketing.

And so I have to say we did a campaign a couple of years ago where, and this is very
Midwest specific, so I apologize, but there are two influencers, Dude Dad and Charlie

Barron's, and they did a collaboration on.

uh

snowblowers and snow tools and it was just amazing and it was so fun to watch so I would
say that's probably one of my top 10.

Amazing.

And I would love that being from Canada, obviously, snow blowers and snow tools are things
that um that we have to deal with often.

So, you know, and it's those that every day and as a Canadian, the annoying things, nobody
likes to go out and blow the snow.

Nobody likes to shovel snow.

But when you can bring fun to it and personality to it, it makes it.

that much more attractive.

Exactly, exactly.

They had a good time with it.

It was a great one.

Yeah, that's awesome.

Well, I'll have to look that up.

it, can we find it on YouTube?

and it's called Winter Hater and Winter Lover and the whole premise is there's a die-hard
snowblower loving neighbor and one who clearly is not from a cold climate and he's using

like a credit card to scrape the his windshield off his car and he maybe even puts his
Roomba out to try to snowblow and the other guy is out just living his best life with a

big monster snowblower and it's it's quite a good paradox.

oh

my gosh, I love that.

I mean, I everybody who comes from a cold climate can relate to using the credit card to
scrape ice off the window.

It's just being done.

Yeah.

that's so funny.

Well, I love that.

And Alyssa, I mean, I think we've so many, gotten so many nuggets and there are so many.

not just philosophies, but actionable tips that you've shared through this episode that
I'm so grateful for.

And with that, is there anything else you'd like to leave our listeners with from a
leadership perspective or a teamwork or team building perspective?

Any last nugget of advice?

Yeah, I think one of my biggest takeaways throughout my career has been that uh it's
harder to bring your whole self to work and to invite in vulnerability and feelings and

emotions to our earlier conversation, but it's always worth it and doing that hard work
and inviting, you know.

the whole self of yourself and your team members will make your company so much more
successful if you're just willing to lean into that.

uh

Fantastic.

Thank you.

And finally, where can everybody find you if they want to connect, if they want to learn
more?

We know YouTube is one option, but where can people get in touch with you directly?

Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn, Alyssa Saunders or anthologic.com is our website and we
have a contact form on there and we'd love to hear from any of you.

Well, thank you for your time and your expertise.

It's been a wonderful conversation and looking forward to our next.

Yes, thank you Kendra.

I appreciate being on the show and your time.

Okay.