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Marketing and business strategy podcast for executives and marketing leaders who want to improve outcomes from marketing.
Marketing veterans Devin Bramhall (Animalz, Help Scout) & Margaret Kelsey (InVision, OpenView) use their combined 20+ years of experience to increase the business impact of marketing by creating shared understanding of its purpose and outcomes among marketing leaders, founders/CEOs & others in the C-suite.
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius
An award-winning B2B podcast production company: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/
Devin Bramhall [00:00:01]:
It turns out that there are two Nick Bennetts. And I was lucky enough to find that out this year through my friend Erica Schneider, who said, hey, my friend Nick Bennett has a podcast. Do you want to be a guest? And I was like, nick Bennett, I think I know that guy. And she was like, no, you don't. This is the Nick Bennett. The Nick Bennett, my favorite. Nick Bennett helps solopreneurs. That's like his thing.
Devin Bramhall [00:00:40]:
He is the guy that's helped solopreneurs get their shit together and sell themselves and their services. More specifically, he's the founder of Harness and Hone. It's basically like a digital consulting accelerator. And he helps, like, me, who can't figure out what the F we do and how we do it, etc. Not just with the what, but also the processes and stuff like that. Anyway, he has a podcast that he launched in 2024 called 1000 Roots, and he talks to a bunch of people in our industry about how their journey to solopreneurship and all the stories and learnings in between. He's one of the best hosts who I've ever been interviewed by. And now he's a friend.
Devin Bramhall [00:01:35]:
So in this episode we talked about career changes, breaking into content marketing, all that early stuff, but really focused on things like this word that I hate called burnout that everyone uses, but how to turn that into creative freedom. So focusing more on how to harness it rather than focusing on it as a problem and building a supportive network, that's a lot of how I've gotten through the past few years. And bravery and trust. Not just trust in others, but trust in yourself. It's a great early in the year episode, so I think you should listen to it. I think you should subscribe to Nick's podcast. It's an awesome pod. He's talked to a bunch of folks that you already know, like Aaron Balsa, Ryan Baum, Sharon Curran, Brendan Hufford, John Bonini.
Devin Bramhall [00:02:31]:
So I hope you take a listen, I hope you subscribe. It really is awesome. Nick is a really cool guy. And while you're at it, if you are a solopreneur and you're listening, Nick and Erica just launched something called the Full Stack Solopreneur Roadmap. It's basically a series of five emails with five strategies on how to refine your offer and sort of turn that into a content engine and help you sell. So I have used products that Erica has co created before and I couldn't believe the output from it and how accurate it was. So if you're looking for help, you can go to full stack solo roadmap.com and I'll put it in the show notes or just search for Erica Schneider and Nick Bennett on LinkedIn. I hope you enjoyed the episode.
Devin Bramhall [00:03:31]:
Bye. When I say that I was. My DNA was forever changed for the better during that fundraiser, I mean it, because it was the first time I got to, like. I got to just, like, lay down and I got to let my, like, adrenal glands kind of like, you know, just like, I didn't have to. I could stop fighting for, like, a second.
Nick Bennett [00:04:10]:
Hey, it's Nick, and welcome back to the show. You know, sometimes life throws you a curveball, and sometimes it throws you two. And that's exactly what happened to my returning guest, Devin Bramhall. See, when she first joined us, we talked about her incredible journey to solopreneurship, but we just kind of glossed over a crucial chapter of the story. So today, she is back to share her battle with not one, but two different types of cancer. A part of her journey that deserves to be heard, needs to be shared, and will absolutely move you. Devin's story isn't just about survival. It's about finding strength in places you never knew existed.
Nick Bennett [00:04:46]:
This episode is a real dialogue, and it might just change how you think about resilience. And I am beyond thankful for Devin to come back and sharing this part of her story with us. This is 1000 rounds. This is gonna be a fun conversation. Cause I feel like this is a conversation that we danced around a bit the first time we chatted. And now you're back.
Devin Bramhall [00:05:05]:
And now I'm back.
Nick Bennett [00:05:06]:
Usually part two comes, like, six months later at minimum. But this was like six days later, maybe two weeks. But this was a much needed part two because we were chatting after the fact. You were talking about your experience, and I was like, you know, we didn't really touch this at all. And I think because it feels like a touchy subject.
Devin Bramhall [00:05:23]:
Not to me, honestly, just because I lived it. And there's something about cancer where. And this is true across several other cancer survivors that I've gotten to know since. You sort of walk away and you're like, I think everything's fine. You know what I mean? Like, day to day. I was really afraid to talk about it in the beginning, like, when I still had it, because I was afraid now. I felt like there was a reason for people to not take me seriously. And, like, I already had to battle that my entire career just by, like, being a woman, not going to Like a fancy school.
Devin Bramhall [00:05:58]:
So I was already constantly succeeding and still having to, like, work really hard for people to be like, oh, you're smart.
Nick Bennett [00:06:06]:
Can you back up a second? Because you said another reason for people to not take me seriously, like, she's not dead yet. Like, that was, like, the whole premise of even us wanting to come back and have this conversation.
Devin Bramhall [00:06:16]:
I was like, so I've not been able to stop thinking about it since. I'm like, well, I'm not dead. I'm not dead yet. That's a Monty Python skit, by the way.
Nick Bennett [00:06:25]:
Yeah, I got you. That's kind of like what prompted the thing anyway. But it's like, well, what is it about having cancer that makes you feel like somebody wouldn't take you seriously?
Devin Bramhall [00:06:35]:
Because I was sick. The one thing I had my whole career that nobody could ever, like, tell me anything about, like, they couldn't change about me, is that I was incredibly strong and resilient and brave. And those are things you just can't argue about. You know what I mean? Like, it's too apparent. So anyone could belittle my success or just straight claim it from me. They could do all that stuff. But I was like, when it came to my strength, like, that was something I always felt I had control over and ownership over and being sick. I was like, well, now I'm going to be this, like, sick woman, and no one's going to hire me.
Devin Bramhall [00:07:14]:
And I really needed people to hire me.
Nick Bennett [00:07:16]:
You need money to pay for cancer treatments.
Devin Bramhall [00:07:19]:
That and, like, living your life. Because I wasn't working full time, so I was like, oh, I need money to, like, have this apartment, this, like, studio apartment, and, like, feed myself and stuff like that.
Nick Bennett [00:07:33]:
Yeah, you're not like, Ms. Maisel's apartment. You're in, like, a regular, regular, regular apartment. All right, so hold on. Let's. Let's back up to the beginning when I first. Because I didn't know. I didn't know who you were until one day.
Nick Bennett [00:07:47]:
Jay Akunzo. I know. Can you believe it? I just. I must live under a rock. One day, Jay Kunzo publishes. Hey, we're gonna. We're hosting this event for my friend Devin Bramhall. She has a really rare form of cancer, and we want to do something to support her.
Nick Bennett [00:08:02]:
And a bunch of people, like, all our friends were like, we're getting involved. John Bonini, Brandon Hufford, A bunch of other people were really invested in supporting that. And I was like, who's this Devin person? People seem to really care about her. And when we were talking the other day, that's what you said to me. You were like, I am just blown away that people cared.
Devin Bramhall [00:08:21]:
What was cool about it is that I was in a place at that time, like, going into cancer, where I'd really just lost faith in the community, in the industry. Like, I was just like, man, people just suck. And I was like, I kind of given up. I was like, I don't even want to do this anymore. I was sort of demoralized permanently. And so then I go off and have cancer and the whole, like, the institution doesn't support me either. And so I can't get, like, I can't get Social Security, can't get unemployment because my former employer blocked it for no reason. Yeah, I mean, it's like the level of fucked up ness that is out there is immense.
Devin Bramhall [00:09:08]:
I was saving, but I was like, I had to liquidate, like, investment assets, savings account. Like, I was on the last of it and I still owed taxes on the money I'd made for work that year. I was actually technically in debt. Just like, not physically yet. And no, I couldn't get a yes. I was literally fighting for my own life and not a single fucking thing in the universe was like, can I help you at all? And the answer was no for a while. Until my mom was like. She'd asked me early on.
Devin Bramhall [00:09:41]:
She's like, we can do like a fundraiser for you. I was like, no, I'm not doing that. Like, that's not. You know what I mean? For some reason, I just couldn't do it. I couldn't show my community. I was too afraid to show that I was weak in any way. I finally said yes, but I was like, I'm not sharing it with anyone in my community. Like, I'll send an email out to friends or whatever, but, like, I'm not doing it.
Devin Bramhall [00:10:08]:
And it was Ali Tunnel, who worked for me at Animals, who I was mentoring at the time. And we were just like, friends, obviously. And she was like, it had been going for a few days and she was like, so invested. So invested. And she was like, devin, I want you to. I want to ask you to let me share this. She's like, I want. I want you to let me do it.
Devin Bramhall [00:10:30]:
And I was like. At that point, I was like, I just gave in. And I was like, yes. And then I chucked my phone across the room and refused to look at it for 24 hours because I was like, I was so, so afraid. I was afraid. I did not look at my phone. At all. And finally I looked at it, and I was like, every inbox of mine was, like, overflowing.
Devin Bramhall [00:10:51]:
And it was one of those things that changed me. It changed my DNA perspective. Right. I was, like, healed in such a way that I was like, oh, not everyone's bad.
Nick Bennett [00:11:07]:
It's like the Grinch's heart grew three sizes that day.
Devin Bramhall [00:11:10]:
Yeah, exactly. Little, little baby Marketing Grinch was like, well, maybe. So this was, like, a really cool way to, like, show me that my life hadn't been a complete and total waste, which is how I felt before.
Nick Bennett [00:11:22]:
You had cancer Twice. And I think this is also a part of the story that not many people know.
Devin Bramhall [00:11:31]:
So I had cancer in my mouth when I was CEO at Animals. I think it was, like, the end of 2021. And also, they weren't sure they'd gotten it all, and so they had to wait months for me to heal before doing another scan. The doctor was really good at telling me beforehand. He's like, if we didn't get it at all, it means it was deeper than we thought, in which case, like, we have to do a major surgery on you. So, anyway, I end up finding out that spring that I'm fine. They're like, yep, we got it all. You're good to go now.
Devin Bramhall [00:12:08]:
And then a year later, I have an ovarian cyst and it ruptures. And I. I've honestly been in the hospital a lot of my life. I have never been in that much pain in my whole life. And the male surgeon who ended up treating me was like, oh, yeah, you feel like you're gonna die. He's like, it's the worst pain in the world. So anyway, I get the cyst, and they're like, this is good news. It's really big.
Devin Bramhall [00:12:32]:
You're going to lose your right ovary and your fallopian tube. But because it's big, it's probably not cancerous. So, like, this is going to be fine. So I'm like, fine. And so they take it out a few days later, and then I come back a month later to get the results from the biopsy they do of the thing or whatever. And I go to this, like, the guy's office or whatever, and he's like, so you have cancer? And he's like, it's this really rare cancer that everyone dies. 60 people in the whole world have ever had it. Everyone dies because it's really good at hiding.
Devin Bramhall [00:13:13]:
So it doesn't show up on scans. It spreads like wildfire. Like, it's a Fucking pro, right? And because it's undetectable, like, by the time it is, it's too late and you die. So he's like, so I end up being really lucky, right? They're like, you're not gonna die, but you need chemo. But then I'm like, well, why the. Do I have cancer again? Can we talk about this? So the. I'm at msk, and they had treated my last cancer, so I get transferred over there, and they do a genetic study, and they're like, cool. Your two cancers are unrelated.
Devin Bramhall [00:13:46]:
There's absolutely nothing that links those two cancers together. They are like. It's like oil and water. So, like, we don't know. We just don't know why you got those two. But we found this gene. It's called the check2 gene, and it makes you more likely to get colon cancer or breast cancer, neither of which you've had.
Nick Bennett [00:14:12]:
So, like, be ready is what they just said.
Devin Bramhall [00:14:15]:
Yes. Well, I'd already gotten my mammogram that year, so I was good. And they did a colonoscopy, and now I have to get them, like, all the time. So they did a colonoscopy. Then I have to go do another one in, like, two weeks. But the point is, I'm lucky there, too, because now I'm on such an aggressive monitoring schedule that, like, I might not die.
Nick Bennett [00:14:36]:
What if the. There. If the. If something's coming, they'll find it.
Devin Bramhall [00:14:39]:
Yeah.
Nick Bennett [00:14:40]:
Okay. So they find this very aggressive super cancer that spreads like wildfire, and they're like, everybody dies from it, and no.
Devin Bramhall [00:14:49]:
One knows anything about it.
Nick Bennett [00:14:50]:
But how. What was it about your situation that they were like, you're gonna. You're gonna be fine because they. Because they found it before.
Devin Bramhall [00:15:00]:
Yeah.
Nick Bennett [00:15:00]:
Like, so you're. Oh, your. Your. This ovarian cyst that exploded alerted them to this thing before it was too late.
Devin Bramhall [00:15:10]:
This surgeon, he looked at me, and he was like, your cyst saved your life. I was like, wow. I was like, that's a little dramatic. But also, I guess you're right. So, long story short, I start chemo in, like, November. But guess what? During this time, Ashley and I are speaking at Inbound. So I go to Inbound in September amidst, like, my entire life changing, and, like, I'm giving a talk, right?
Nick Bennett [00:15:39]:
Marketing's important. Trust me. Like, how do you stand on stage and tell everyone, this is important things. Please care about it?
Devin Bramhall [00:15:48]:
I think I was still in the process of, like, finding out exactly how bad it. Like, I knew I had cancer, but I didn't fully know what was going to happen yet. So I'm at this, like, conference, and I'm, like, trying to be like, okay, fine. You know, And I don't know if I'm going to lose my hair or not. And then I go to Austin, and I'm like, you know, again, I'm just trying to, like, be normal. And, like, that was really when the anxiety, like, super hit. Like, I started to lose my mind because I'm like. I got my eyebrows tattooed on just in case.
Devin Bramhall [00:16:22]:
I was like, I have to learn how to, like. I have to learn about wigs. I have to like. You know what I mean? I was like, what about my clients? Like, I need work. How am I gonna work? They're like, oh, you should be able to work. They wrote me a letter immediately, and they were like, this can't work. She's like, in the emergency room constantly.
Nick Bennett [00:16:40]:
Yeah, I mean, I get the whole you start spiraling thing because you're like, this is uncharted territory, and you don't.
Devin Bramhall [00:16:47]:
Want to tell anyone. Like, I didn't want to tell anyone. So I was trying to. I was trying to figure out how to hide it. And then I started. The first round was, like, kind of fine. So here's the crazy thing. They tell you what to expect, so they're like, you're.
Devin Bramhall [00:17:03]:
I was on two different type of chemo medications. One of them, it gives you a cold sensitivity, so that when you touch, like, metal and stuff, it, like, stings. And you have to wear gloves when you go outside, because otherwise your fingers are going to, like, burn and, like, tingle burn. It's not physically manifesting, but the feeling is very, very real. And the other thing that happens is your throat feels like it completely closes up, and you can't breathe, so you have to cover your entire face. And when I tell you that I was walking, like, fully covered still, and it was a little bit cold, like, I was like, you breathe like this. You're like. Like, that's.
Devin Bramhall [00:17:51]:
And the worst thing is I learned the wrong way one morning walking my dog that my face was fully covered. My eyes swelled shut because of the cold. So I'm standing outside in New York, my dog is right here, and I can't. I kid you not, I could not fucking see.
Nick Bennett [00:18:10]:
So, like, being. Having this chemo in the wintertime is a big no.
Devin Bramhall [00:18:16]:
It's the worst. So the whole time, I am fighting for my life, and I'm also fighting for my life because I'm starting to liquidate all of my assets, right? And so, because I can't get any social services, because social services and the world hate single women, especially if you don't have kids. And so there's nothing for you. Social Security takes six months to even kick in if you can get it. And I was already turned away by unemployment, so I have. I start scouring the Internet and I find this place called Cancer Care Grants and stuff, because you're like, there's gotta be something out there. Eating was difficult, and keeping anything down was difficult. I had to go, like, whatever.
Devin Bramhall [00:19:06]:
So I also have this entire huge project of financing myself while this is going on. So I'm applying for all of these grants. I mean, I have this spreadsheet tracker because you have to do things at just the right time. You have to, like, put all this information. I mean, I had to put so many financial documents together. And it's not like you can just use the same pile every time. It's, like, very specific with each one, and they're all a little bit different. But it's like, you can't rest.
Devin Bramhall [00:19:35]:
Like, there was no resting because you're like, 500 here, a thousand dollars here. I'm like, I still have to pay rent in January, right? And so it's like this whole thing of, like, you have to just, you. I couldn't. I couldn't stop. And towards the end, it was so bad that they had to, like, loosen up the dose of the pills because I just, like, couldn't. I wasn't keeping anything in my body. So when I say that I was. My DNA was forever changed for the better during that fundraiser.
Devin Bramhall [00:20:12]:
I mean it. Because it was the first time I got to, like. I got to just, like, lay down and I got to let my, like, adrenal glands kind of like, you know, just like, I didn't have to. I could stop fighting for, like, a second. I was so tired, I. I couldn't even, like, talk to anyone. So, yeah, it was really nice that everybody came out for me and didn't treat me like a sick person after. They were just like, you're not dead.
Nick Bennett [00:20:53]:
This is what you said to me, though, just to make it like, I'm not that heartless, this heartless of a person. Like, you were like, hey, like, I came back. I posted this thing to LinkedIn. You're like, I'm back, and I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm doing something and I'm back. I was like, you could have posted not dead yet. Hit publish it Would have been, you would have got a fantastic response. Like you didn't need to do much on that front. So you're not dead yet.
Nick Bennett [00:21:21]:
And it's the most light hearted way of saying you're not dead yet.
Devin Bramhall [00:21:25]:
Well, you know what though, Nick? Like, this is the thing is cancer survivors really like to laugh and they take a lot less seriously because of what they've gone through. And so we're just dying for people to be funny. Like, it's, we're not. Like, it's, it's a funny thing how like I went to this, I think I said this at the beginning with the cancer retreat with all these other cancer survivors and they've now become my like cancer mommies. I love them so much. And we laughed that whole weekend. Like we were just like, we were making cancer jokes. We're like, you know what I mean? Like talking about like how bad the diarrhea is and how you're like throw up all the time.
Devin Bramhall [00:22:08]:
Like we are cackling. Because when I tell you afterwards, you're like, nothing. Nothing matters. Like, nothing. And when I say nothing, I mean like 95 of the things that we all walk around thinking, mattering. And it's like, no. Like your family matters, you matter.
Nick Bennett [00:22:34]:
Like, don't be Marketing doesn't matter.
Devin Bramhall [00:22:36]:
No. Stupid. It's so stupid. This is the dumbest. Because you want to know why quite literally nothing has changed. I was like, I'm doing some work with a client right now. And I was like, I actually like went into their email thing to like help tweak something or whatever. And I was like, oh, so these are the same.
Devin Bramhall [00:23:01]:
Everything about email is the fucking same. Like nothing. All this like hype and all this talk. Nothing is any different. Everything is fundamentally works the exact same way as it did before. Plus there's AI now.
Nick Bennett [00:23:18]:
You know, I've been saying this. The phrase from Whose line is Whose line is it Anyway? Keeps coming back to me more and more. Everything's made up and the points don't matter.
Devin Bramhall [00:23:29]:
Yep.
Nick Bennett [00:23:30]:
I've been like, I have found myself saying this to more and more people, especially on LinkedIn. People are like, I don't know what to write on everything's made up and the points don't matter. Like, this is like none of it matters. It really doesn't. No. I think this was the whole point of why I wanted to have this conversation with you, which was it feels like it's this really touchy subject and I think to a lot of people probably is. And in the moment it probably is really hard to wrap your head around what is going on. And it's hard to look and say, you know, this time next year, I'm gonna be on a podcast talking about this and laughing about it, and, like, I'm not dead, but, like, it's just.
Nick Bennett [00:24:07]:
It's a. It's just weird. And that's why I felt like this conversation had to happen, because I'm sure that there's, like, you had mentioned to me. You're like, I tell a lot of people privately, and I feel like there's a lot of people that dance around it. And, like. Because they're not. They're not trying to be rude. Like, they're trying to be nice and respectful.
Devin Bramhall [00:24:25]:
Yeah.
Nick Bennett [00:24:25]:
But you're like, I don't mind telling it, but it's like. It's just. It's just. There's just like, a weirdness about the entire. About the entire thing that people don't necessarily know how to act be, or how to. And, like, do I. Do I not touch at all? And then we became friends, and I was like, all right, yeah, like, we can definitely go there.
Devin Bramhall [00:24:46]:
And three weeks after my last. I think it was three weeks after I finished chemo, maybe it was a month, I landed a consulting gig, and I, like, went out and plucked it out of the universe. I was like, hell, yeah. I walked away. And I was like, damn right I'm not dead.
Nick Bennett [00:25:06]:
Still got it.
Devin Bramhall [00:25:08]:
Yeah. And I had a lot of energy, weirdly, after I was finished, for about. I think until about June or July of this year. And then I got the worst chronic fatigue I've ever. I didn't even know what chronic fatigue was until this happened. And I was like, I thought all these things were wrong with me. And turns out my body was perfectly healthy and fine. It's just like, chemo takes five years to get out of your system.
Devin Bramhall [00:25:36]:
So I went through this, like, huge emotional roller coaster of, like, you know, I'm a doer. That's how I start. Like, that's how I survive mentally, physically, is like, I can get myself out of anything because I'm more capable than 95% of the world. Right? And I was like, I can't get myself out of this. I am weak in a way that I cannot overcome. And that was terrifying because I was like, how am I gonna survive? And then that's really honestly how I live now, is like, you get this. You get this few months right after where you're just, like, so happy and no. No one can touch It.
Nick Bennett [00:26:15]:
You're so high on life because you're not dead. And.
Devin Bramhall [00:26:18]:
Yeah.
Nick Bennett [00:26:18]:
On chemo anymore. Did you lose your hair or. No?
Devin Bramhall [00:26:21]:
No. Oh, sorry. I forgot to close that loop. So they ended up giving me the chemo. That didn't mean I lost my hair. So I was like. And that's why they had to take it to that forum of all the cancer doctors is like, they had to decide which course was going to be the best course to kill my cancer. One of them would have meant losing my hair.
Devin Bramhall [00:26:39]:
One of them wouldn't. And so I got really lucky.
Nick Bennett [00:26:42]:
That's like a nice little pro in the pro column. Got to keep your hair.
Devin Bramhall [00:26:45]:
I think afterwards, I think the thing. If I'm being totally honest, and I quite literally, like, had this call with my mom last week. I was, like, bawling my eyes out to her, and I was like, I. I feel like I'm gonna die. Actually, like, anytime there's something like that feels weird, I'm like, I have another cyst, the other ovary. Like, I'm gonna, like. I think the circumstances are so random around the cancers I got and how, like, little cancer runs even in my family. Like, I'm an anomaly, and that makes me feel completely out of control, and, like, everything is possible.
Devin Bramhall [00:27:30]:
And every day that I have that feeling, I look at my life and I'm like, I don't care about this life at all. I don't really care about anything I've done. It's not like I made a bunch of other people rich. I didn't get rich. I live in a studio apartment. I don't want to live in a studio apartment. You know, Like, I started making the list, and I was like, I gotta get to work, only I'm really tired now. And so it's this weird, like, you just go through.
Devin Bramhall [00:28:06]:
So it's like. I think the cool thing about that is, like, I can't give any about, like, my world right now again. Yeah. I'm just like, oh, this is stupid. And the cool thing about that is I've never been better at, like, knowing what my boundaries are and therefore being able to communicate them. Right. And so it's like, instead of it being, like, it coming out when I was younger, when I was like, you know what I mean? It's like I can now say in clear, plain, human language, like, what I want and don't want in a way that doesn't, like, you know, make everybody mad. Although I still make people mad.
Devin Bramhall [00:28:50]:
But it's gonna happen. Yeah. And I'M like, I just don't care. Like there's so much. Like a friend of mine recently was like saying something and I was like, these aren't problems. You don't. These are not problems. I have friends in my life with legitimate problems right now that I'm like, holy, that's a problem.
Devin Bramhall [00:29:09]:
But I was like, if someone comes to me and they try to like lay their on me, I was like, that's not a problem, stop. And I'm just like, go talk to somebody else.
Nick Bennett [00:29:17]:
Yeah.
Devin Bramhall [00:29:18]:
I'm like, you better have a problem if you're coming to me. And even still I might tell you to go talk to somebody else because it's like, you just, you can't. Life is like, I just didn't realize how much of my life I'd wasted trying to prove to people that I was valuable and that I was like worthy of all the. Like, why did I feel that way? You know? And so now I have my head screwed on just right.
Nick Bennett [00:29:50]:
Yeah. I think because we don't know better. Like we're so like, especially our generation, we've been pre wired to just be like, work really hard, work a lot, do all this stuff, like just hammer away and blah blah, blah. And like buy a house, have some kids, living like the American dream, do all this. And then one day something happens and then your whole life is put into perspective.
Devin Bramhall [00:30:17]:
Yep.
Nick Bennett [00:30:19]:
So I'll share a story with you. So around. So this actually the exact same time last year. The exact same time last year, October 26th, my mom was diagnosed. Actually she wasn't even diagnosed that day. She was diagnosed earlier, but that was the day she had her surgery. She was has a sacral chordoma which is like the. I thought this cancer was rare.
Nick Bennett [00:30:44]:
Yours is. 60 people in the world, like 300 people a year get this thing. So it's like super rare.
Devin Bramhall [00:30:50]:
Rare.
Nick Bennett [00:30:51]:
It's pretty rare. It's an insanely rare thing. And it's like this crazy bone cancer that grows in your sacrum. Right. So it's like October 26th, she goes in for a two stage surgery. The first surgery was like an eight hour surgery. The second surgery was a 16 hour surgery to like to fix all of this stuff. And I share all that with you because that shit puts your life into perspective.
Nick Bennett [00:31:13]:
I was like marketing, who cares about that? Like, who cares about like posting to LinkedIn and, or doing whatever this stuff is. Like all of a sudden one day to the next you go from my tailbone hurts a little bit to you have the one of the rarest cancers there is.
Devin Bramhall [00:31:32]:
I need to hear the end of this story.
Nick Bennett [00:31:34]:
My mom is completely. My mom is an. Is like an anomaly. She. They are literally like studying her because they're like, how is it possible that you're doing so well? There are people who have had this surgery years ago who are not doing as well as she's doing. This puts your life in a perspective. Even happen to me. Nothing happens to your mom.
Nick Bennett [00:31:51]:
And you're like, oh, like. Like, I gotta get so. I'm so zoomed in on the thing that I'm trying to do. Like this business I'm trying to build and all this other shit that I'm trying to do. And it takes one of these things to really rip you out of that. And I'm just like a bystander, right? Like, it happens to someone I'm close to. There's like, your situation happened to you.
Devin Bramhall [00:32:15]:
When you have cancer. And anyone, they're like, oh, you know, this thing. Things going on, they're like, but it's not cancer. And I'm like, listen, you are allowed a. Everyone's allowed to have their own space for the thing that they're going through because everybody, everybody has their cancer. If it's something you've never gone through before, it feels like the biggest thing in your life. So, like, this is one thing that's been really important to me the whole time is I'm like, I'm not the worst off person in the world. Like, yeah, this sucks.
Devin Bramhall [00:32:45]:
But, like, other people go through too.
Nick Bennett [00:32:47]:
It puts your life into perspective in a crazy way. It was like, we have like a. Our kid is like a year and a few months old. She, like. I think she was either a few weeks pregnant before or after. It's hard to remember. Time blurs together. So it's like, there's like a lot of stuff going on.
Nick Bennett [00:33:02]:
I'm trying to build this business, and then this rips you out of that hole and you're like, perspective, right? Like, don't lose sight of that matters. Like, call your mom.
Devin Bramhall [00:33:14]:
Especially, like now.
Nick Bennett [00:33:15]:
I FaceTime my mom every day with my boys. I'm like, like, just like. Even if It's a quick five minutes FaceTime or five minutes, say, what's up? He. He says hi. Says hi to my dad. And it's like, cool. Like that little goes such a long way.
Devin Bramhall [00:33:28]:
Yeah.
Nick Bennett [00:33:29]:
Because before, you don't realize, like, how long you go without talking to people and doing stuff. It's like. It's like, oh, you look at. I haven't Like, I haven't talked to my mom in a couple of weeks.
Devin Bramhall [00:33:38]:
I mean, you're totally right. Like, I think every single time I had to go to the clinic. Like my. Because if you get blood drawn all the time, like you get. The chemo goes in through your veins. So, like my arms were like a mess. Like I looked like a meth addict. I was just like.
Devin Bramhall [00:33:54]:
Because they start to like get really traumatized. But every time you go in, the many times per month that you have to go in, not just for chemo, but for the follow up exams, all that stuff, you have to answer the question at least three times. Every time. Are you pregnant? Could you be pregnant every fucking time? You're 40 turning. I guess I was. I turned 41 this year, so I was 40 going into 41. And they're like, are you pregnant? Is there any way you could be pregnant? You have to fill it out on forms, then you have to take pregnancy tests just to be sure. And I'm like, well, let me tell you something.
Devin Bramhall [00:34:48]:
My boyfriend, it turns out, isn't even in love with me. And I'm 40 turning 41, minus an ovary. And I'm cancer. So being reminded of that every day is not fun. That was something that I wanted at one time. And so it's like a tough surprise thing where like, not only was your time limited already, but now all of a sudden it's like being thrown in your face constantly. It's too late, it's too late, it's too late. And it's just like, hell, it's.
Devin Bramhall [00:35:34]:
I mean, and it's like these little things that you're just like, you just get used to it, right? Hospitals have to cover their ass constantly. And so all the tiny things that you're like, why do I have to do this? It's so they don't get sued because people are monsters. And like, if they get caught doing anything remotely imperfectly, they will get skewered financially for it.
Nick Bennett [00:35:59]:
So you are cancer free, you're in remission. Is that how it. That's the.
Devin Bramhall [00:36:08]:
I didn't have cancer the last time. They didn't find any. No cancer came up in scans the last time I got checked, which is like a couple months ago. And my cancer markers were really good. So like, like, probably not. I just don't know what you're allowed to, like, I don't know what it's called. So I'm like, I don't know. I think probably not.
Devin Bramhall [00:36:27]:
Probably I don't have cancer.
Nick Bennett [00:36:30]:
Probably I don't have cancer. Okay, when did you not have cancer for the first time? Like, when you were like, the chemo was done, and they're like. They did the scan and they were like, you're good. When was that? Was it the first, like, exhale you were able to take?
Devin Bramhall [00:36:47]:
Oh, I never really took one because it doesn't. That's the thing about cancer is, like, it's not like the movies. Doesn't just, like, end one day. It takes like, they're like, the first scan. They're like, you don't have it right. Like, things are starting to go down. Like, your markers are still a little bit high, but, like, they're on a downward trend. And then you go the next time, they're like, great.
Devin Bramhall [00:37:08]:
They're down a little bit more. And it's just exactly what you said earlier. My last scan, they were kind of, like, edging me out the door, and that's when I was like, I think I'm fine now. Because, like, when they start telling you to off exactly what you said, you're like, oh. Because, like, when you go in, they're like, they get on you. Like, they are like, we need to do this immediately. Like, goes really fast once they find it. But once they're like, actually, we could see you in six months, I'm like.
Nick Bennett [00:37:38]:
Yeah, we don't have time for. For you anymore. And you're like, that's what I wanted to hear.
Devin Bramhall [00:37:43]:
Oh, it is the best. It is the best because I spent a lot of time going back and forth. So, like, it's. That's not really how it happens, but that's also fine. It's. It's gonna take me a while before, like, I. It's going to be years because, like, I. To me, I could still get cancer in a year just based on, like, recent history.
Devin Bramhall [00:38:10]:
So, like, you don't. It's not really about exhaling. It's just about in that moment being like, this is great news right now, and then just kind of like, living your life and not thinking about it, right? And I think that's the best thing you can do is, like, you're like, if I don't. You know, I try not to think about it that much. And then that's like, that's the way you. That's the way you do it. And you just keep doing that and hoping that eventually something wildly amazing happens.
Nick Bennett [00:38:42]:
To you, which, like, I feel like you should play the scratchy lotteries because. Yeah, I mean, it seems like your odds are pretty Good.
Devin Bramhall [00:38:56]:
Well, I didn't die. I literally am gonna write it. My next book is gonna be. It's gonna have to say that, like, I didn't die. Like, this is.
Nick Bennett [00:39:03]:
You should just post it to LinkedIn right now. Not dead yet.
Devin Bramhall [00:39:06]:
Yeah, that was it. Not dead yet.
Nick Bennett [00:39:09]:
Not dead yet. Just post that to LinkedIn right now and see how you're gonna go mega viral. 20 million views, 6,000 shares, 500,000 likes. Like, yeah, perfect. Perfect place to end.
Devin Bramhall [00:39:25]:
Go hug your kids. Go hug your wife and your kids. It's a lot. I know. It is. It's a lot to listen to, so.
Nick Bennett [00:39:32]:
Oh, I mean, yeah, it's a lot, but I think it's like. It is also. It is also like a an up. It's a story of triumph. Like, not dead yet.
Devin Bramhall [00:39:45]:
Not dead yet.
Nick Bennett [00:39:46]:
And you can. You're just doing whatever the hell you want. You're writing a book. You can go make yourself a bunch of money.
Devin Bramhall [00:39:53]:
God, I hope so. I need to fucking get good at that.
Nick Bennett [00:40:01]:
Hey, Nick. Again, and thanks for listening. I'm excited to share a new program that I've been working on called Full Stack solopreneur in partnership with my friend and legendary entrepreneur, Erica Schneider. Now, unlike other programs, Full Stack Solepeneur is a hybrid digital program for independent professionals who are too far along for another course to be really all that helpful, but not far enough to invest in a private coaching or consulting service. In here, you'll gain access to both the full curriculum and monthly group coaching clinics to teach you how to create a legendary niche offer, how to build a content engine, and how to sell like a human. You can learn more@fullstacksolo.com that's FullStack S O L O dot com.