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Conversations about Creating a Culture of Activity: Profiling the people, places, programs, and policies that help to promote a culture of activity within our communities.
Note: This transcript was exported from the video version of this episode, and it has not been copyedited
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:19:04
Dan Hendry
I really fundamentally believe from a climate point of view, technology, point of view, last mile health, all that. It is that balance of. You got to get people in the past week and then we can build better out more routes, more people, more rights, more people, and then more attention to things that tie into the bigger picture about location, land use, development, last mile, all those other pieces, you know.
00:00:19:06 - 00:00:42:21
John Simmerman
Hey everyone, welcome to the Active Towns Channel. My name is John Simmerman and that is Dan Hendry with the Get On The Bus program inspiring a youth transit revolution. Dan is up in Kingston, Ontario area, just north of the border there in Canada. And we are going to be talking about this really, truly inspiring program, that he helped, establish.
00:00:42:23 - 00:00:50:15
John Simmerman
so let's get right to it with Dan.
00:00:50:17 - 00:00:54:11
John Simmerman
Dan Hendry, thank you very much for joining me on the Active Towns Podcast.
00:00:54:13 - 00:00:56:02
Dan Hendry
Thanks for having me.
00:00:56:04 - 00:01:01:24
John Simmerman
Dan. I love giving my guests the opportunity just to quickly introduce themselves. So who the heck is, Dan Henry?
00:01:01:26 - 00:01:19:24
Dan Hendry
Well, I got a couple of hats on today, even though you can't see them. one is, I'm the sustainable initiatives coordinator for Limestone District School Board, which is a public school board in Kingston, Ontario, Canada. but from the work which we're going to be talking about today, I'm actually also the co-founder and project director of get on the bus.
00:01:19:26 - 00:01:24:01
Dan Hendry
which is a movement driven by a charity in Toronto called the Small Change Fund. I love it.
00:01:24:01 - 00:01:35:16
John Simmerman
I love it, I love it when people wear multiple hats and makes it fun. Lots of irons in the fire, you know, keeping things interesting. You know, you never want to get too bored.
00:01:35:19 - 00:01:40:17
Dan Hendry
I can tell you that. That's, I never really, bored at all.
00:01:40:19 - 00:02:00:01
John Simmerman
Well, I had to look up where the heck Kingston, Ontario is. because you and I have never met. You just reached out to me and said, hey, I'm doing this. Really cool program. I've been engaged and involved with this since, 2012, and I'd love to tell you about it. And I took one look at it and replied back to you, heck yeah.
00:02:00:01 - 00:02:02:06
John Simmerman
Yeah, let's get you on the podcast.
00:02:02:09 - 00:02:15:21
Dan Hendry
Yeah. No, I thank you so much for giving the opportunity to. I just love sharing the story because it's just so applicable. And it's not just in Canada. It's literally there's a master's thesis done on this work, and it could be applied to mid-sized companies all over North America. So thanks for giving me an opportunity to chat.
00:02:15:24 - 00:02:41:06
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And I just pulled up on screen here, for the audience, the, visual of where the heck you are? again, Kingston, Ontario, way up north east here. off of Lake Ontario, right at the mouth of the Saint Lawrence River. Fascinating. I've never been to that part of North America. how the heck did you find your way to Kingston, Ontario?
00:02:41:09 - 00:02:57:01
Dan Hendry
Well, actually, it's, you know, I've been around the world of art through studies and travel. I grew up in a smaller town, actually. but my family's from the area, my mom's side. So, you know, I was traveling overseas for about ten years. so when I came back to settle, I picked a spot that was, you know, big and small.
00:02:57:01 - 00:03:07:01
Dan Hendry
Had the amenities close to Syracuse, New York and and Toronto and Montreal. Ottawa. So just in the middle. But it gives you there's less traffic, let's put it that way. So my commute home is never too bad. You know.
00:03:07:04 - 00:03:16:10
John Simmerman
So we're going to be talking a lot about transit engaging use to use transit. How big is the metropolitan area that we're talking about here.
00:03:16:13 - 00:03:27:06
Dan Hendry
Yeah we're talking about a bit of a flux, like there's some post-secondary institutions and a military base, but generally, I'd say about 160, 180,000 people type of thing, depending on the time of year. Yeah.
00:03:27:09 - 00:03:47:24
John Simmerman
Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Fascinating. And I see, you know, based on the, the, the, the map here and the satellite imaging, it looks like it's a pretty well contained, area development area. And then it looks like, most of the Ontario that, I'm used to, which is a lot of farmland.
00:03:47:26 - 00:04:04:03
Dan Hendry
Yeah, 100%. And actually, one thing about Kingston, it's actually, an old city hall, you know? So it was built on the mouth of Saint Lawrence. It was actually Canada's first capital city, actually, for a couple of years there. And so that's just that strategic, you know, back in the day, while they were coming over and looking to set up places, definitely.
00:04:04:06 - 00:04:14:06
Dan Hendry
you know, the urban area is contained right by, by Lake Ontario as well as kind of as we get going a bit more northern into the farmland and, to the Canadian Shield as well.
00:04:14:09 - 00:04:34:09
John Simmerman
Yeah. And and I was also trying to get my bearings and, you know, because I spent some time in Toronto, I did my master's degree at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, and I would pop over to see some friends of mine that lived, in the province of Ontario. And so I have spent a little bit of time there.
00:04:34:15 - 00:04:51:17
John Simmerman
But it was interesting to to see that Kingston is like halfway between Montreal and and Toronto. And so that gave me a little bit of a bearing on that. yeah, because I've also visited and profiled the cycling infrastructure up in, in the city of Montreal.
00:04:51:19 - 00:04:54:21
Dan Hendry
Yeah, that's that's pretty special there for sure. Yeah.
00:04:54:24 - 00:05:20:27
John Simmerman
Yeah. Fantastic work. Now, so you mentioned you had traveled around a fair amount, settled back into the Kingston area there. And, what was that story? How did you start to get involved in, in, in, in schools and school districts and then, and ultimately starting to really get engaged with teaching about and engaging youth with transit?
00:05:21:00 - 00:05:37:29
Dan Hendry
Yeah. No, it's, so I'll take you over to Sweden quickly. In 2007, when I graduated from a master's of strategic leadership in sustainability. So I have a background in commerce as well as sustainability. You know, I'm just looking at 8 billion people. We live on this spaceship, and we're mammals, right? We have some constraints that we don't always pay attention to.
00:05:37:29 - 00:05:55:09
Dan Hendry
I think, and just knowing that, I kind of came back to Canada in 2009, you know, after I went back to Korea for a couple years to teach. So always engage in youth in some, some aspect, you know? but when I came back, I was looking for work, and, you know, the word sustainability and climate action, these weren't maybe in the norm as much back then.
00:05:55:11 - 00:06:10:24
Dan Hendry
And so, yeah, I started to work in Kingston, and part time job at the school board, which I still have, the public board here. And there was just an opportunity in 2012. And so, you know, sometimes you don't know. Well, it's funny when you look back and you can find points in your life that have changed your life.
00:06:10:25 - 00:06:28:15
Dan Hendry
Right. And and it was a decision, by city council and the trustees from the board that said, well, why don't we let grade nines ride for free now? So I had two part time jobs. I worked actually for the city in sustainability and for the school board working on different kind of different projects. and I went to the director of education, said, listen, there's this policy change.
00:06:28:17 - 00:06:41:05
Dan Hendry
Who's going to teach them? Who's helping? Right? We're a mid-sized community. We're not using as many. you know, transit was always the, the norm. And so that's something we kind of set out to change at a point where I didn't know it was going to be successful. But, yeah, we're doing pretty well here.
00:06:41:07 - 00:07:03:06
John Simmerman
I love it, I love it. Now we're going to play a video here, which we may or may not get flagged for on the music. If we do get flagged for it, then this will all get edited out and won't be part of the conversation. But if if we're successful and we can play this video, it's it's a great encapsulation of what it is and it tells a little bit of that story.
00:07:03:06 - 00:07:11:04
John Simmerman
So, if you want to me, I'd love to play this video. which is through, I think the site climate reality.
00:07:11:06 - 00:07:14:28
Dan Hendry
Yeah, it's Al Gore's climate reality project, so yeah, take it away. Let's let's check it out.
00:07:15:00 - 00:07:26:28
John Simmerman
All right. Cool.
00:07:27:00 - 00:07:30:00
Mayor Paterson
The public transit deserves to be at.
00:07:30:00 - 00:07:31:27
Dan Hendry
The center of our communities.
00:07:32:00 - 00:07:55:05
Mayor Paterson
But there's a problem. For years, it's been stigmatized, and we built around the automobile. But more importantly, people aren't using it. You need people for good public transit, but you need good public transit for people. And that's what we set out to change. When local politicians realized that there would be an opportunity to give grade nines free access to the busses, we decided what we should train them.
00:07:55:05 - 00:08:03:00
Mayor Paterson
We should teach them. And we created the Kingston Transit Bus Pass program, in which all grade nine students get trained.
00:08:03:02 - 00:08:07:00
Dan Hendry
On a moving bus and now grade nine, ten, 11, 12.
00:08:07:00 - 00:08:37:20
Mayor Paterson
Ride for free. What does that done? Well, the first year there are 28,000 rides. There's now almost 600,000 rides by high school students in our community. Like any program, there were challenges, but we listened and that's the key. We paid attention to students, teachers, principals, parents, politicians, transit operators, and every year we listened and we built the program better to satisfy what we're trying to do, which is grow ridership and get students comfortable on the bus.
00:08:37:23 - 00:08:38:12
Mayor Paterson
So it's a great.
00:08:38:12 - 00:08:41:29
Dan Hendry
Opportunity to talk to students about etiquette of being in a public.
00:08:41:29 - 00:08:47:21
Mayor Paterson
Place, safety. But really it's about building their confidence and understanding and building a.
00:08:47:21 - 00:08:51:01
Dan Hendry
Community around using transit. One thing I tell.
00:08:51:01 - 00:09:15:20
Mayor Paterson
Students is I'm not just giving you a bus pass today. I'm giving you freedom. And that really resonates with students getting to school jobs. I say first dates are volunteering. It opens up and creates a more accessible community. I got this bus pass for free and it changed my life, my hopes and dreams for the Kingston Transit High School Bus Pass program is one more community, and then one more community all over the world.
00:09:15:22 - 00:09:33:14
Mayor Paterson
When you engage youth, you actually engage the whole community and opening the door to bettering the transit system using public transit. We are the solution.
00:09:33:17 - 00:10:06:00
John Simmerman
I love it, I love it. Hopefully that was successful. Yeah, hopefully we'll be able to show that video. So so Dan, in, in in researching this and in watching, you know, some of the content that you have out there about this, that comes to mind in that is well, two thoughts actually, is I, I'm assuming that since Kingston's, you know, part of North America and most likely it, it got sort of developed around the automobile.
00:10:06:02 - 00:10:10:18
John Simmerman
it's a fairly car centered environment, correct?
00:10:10:21 - 00:10:24:22
Dan Hendry
Yeah. Like, I think just like probably Ann Arbor and other like some of those towns that are on the, the, you know, other coasts maybe a little bit earlier, you definitely got that downtown core, that square, right. But after that, you know, for 100 years. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yeah.
00:10:24:25 - 00:10:47:16
John Simmerman
The second thing is in since you, you had that opportunity to spend some time in Sweden and, and be able to in engage in and and be involved with, you know, that environment of where public transit is, is very much a big, you know, part of, of life there. but so is, is active mobility, walking and biking to meaningful destinations and all of that.
00:10:47:19 - 00:11:04:02
John Simmerman
Where are we at with the ability to walk and bike in addition to using public transit? You know, for obviously we're talking about high school kids here. And, and I'd like to also talk a little bit about the middle school kids, as an add on to that.
00:11:04:05 - 00:11:18:02
Dan Hendry
Yeah. For sure. Well, I think that so the way I look at this is like the one thing that I've seen over the years, it kind of creates more of a narrative to become multimodal, right? Like not just getting out of your front door and sitting in a car and that's it. You know, that's it. There's no other choice, right?
00:11:18:02 - 00:11:41:29
Dan Hendry
There's never thought like in my life it could be walking to a bus stop. It could be walking or biking. It's just it's that flexibility. Right. And so I think we're constrained sometimes by our normalized behavior as well as our infrastructure. And it's a chicken and egg game. Right. So if more people are walking paying attention to being multimodal and caring and advocating for it, you know, our community in Kingston definitely has been making strides, in different public infrastructure, bike paths.
00:11:41:29 - 00:12:01:20
Dan Hendry
Right? both keeping them separate, making it apparent, you know, bike bollards, that type of stuff. So there is definitely that play between these. I also remember one stat years ago from a health point of view that said that kids are, or students are, 64% more likely to get their daily physical activity that's recommended if they take the bus because there's that walking in connection.
00:12:01:23 - 00:12:25:01
Dan Hendry
And so I see this all as I mean, sometimes it's hard to play a real time when we're talking about infrastructure because infrastructure takes some time. Right. But I definitely with my own child, you know, see how it ties into these other modes of confidence, understanding, understanding their community, how to get around. Right, even like where they're placed, their sense of place, and the confidence of navigating that system.
00:12:25:04 - 00:12:30:10
Dan Hendry
I do have a really neat little story with that, but but I want to follow up. See? yeah. What you were thinking with that.
00:12:30:12 - 00:12:57:18
John Simmerman
Yeah. No, I love that that line of thought that you had and it brought up, you just you channel you mentioned your, your, your own children and, and so this, this image that you sent through came to mind. So this is the littles. And then in the background we've got the bus there. And then we also have somebody, you know, riding a bike on a street, which I would characterize as more of a, of a European style street.
00:12:57:18 - 00:13:29:15
John Simmerman
It's it's got pavers and it's probably a treatment that's encouraging slower speeds. And so it takes me back to my time visiting Sweden as well as the Netherlands of, it's it may not be considered truly like protected infrastructure for riding a bike, but it's it's calmed. It's traffic calmed. so yeah, I, I guess that kind of brings us around to, you know, what, what level of, like, freedom and mobility are children in the Kingston area?
00:13:29:17 - 00:13:51:21
John Simmerman
granted, now it's sounding like the high school kids. You know, they're spot on. Now, I'm starting to worry a little bit about some of the younger ones. Are they able to walk and bike to school? Are they able to, you know, with some of the middle school kids, like, for instance, in Boulder, Colorado, whenever I'm riding the bus there, I'm, like, surrounded by middle schoolers on the bus, which is the coolest thing ever.
00:13:51:24 - 00:14:07:15
John Simmerman
and I know that you you get a real good chuckle out of that, because that's exactly what you're talking about. The, you know, empowering the kids to be able to use public transit to get to their daily needs. They're not reliant on their parents or any other older siblings.
00:14:07:17 - 00:14:29:03
Dan Hendry
Yeah, 100%. Right. And what you're saying to I find with youth, so we have a couple different programs. But one thing that you're seeing there too is it's actually a field trip pass. Right. Because in 2017, the city of Kingston at the time allowed 0 to 14 to ride for free. So I was talking to the director and say, well, if kids ride free, can we just pay for the caregivers, the parents that ease the, you know, the different assistance and supports to to go for them and they're like, yeah.
00:14:29:05 - 00:15:00:11
Dan Hendry
And so usually through Covid, it was a bit different. But I mean, I think one of our peak year was 900 field trips on our preexisting public transit routes. And that just normalize at a young age. Right. So now they're the sights, the smells, the movement, the payment they got normalized. Right. And I think that's, you know, part of them not just going on their own at a young age, like in kindergarten, but starting to understand how to use it and, and being and honestly, the busses usually if this were the parent, the teachers tell me like they're the kids favorite trip the or the favorite part of the trip would be them being on
00:15:00:11 - 00:15:04:08
Dan Hendry
a bus, you know, which I think is always pretty cool, you know? Yeah, yeah.
00:15:04:10 - 00:15:25:18
John Simmerman
It's interesting too. And I can't, can't remember. There's something that that I saw in doing some research for this episode where it was talking a little bit about that concept of leveraging these busses, leveraging the transit that you have, to be able to do these field trips to talk a little bit more about that.
00:15:25:20 - 00:15:45:17
Dan Hendry
For a lot of our transit systems are really built at the core, around peak, peak hours, which are before and after work and school. Right. It's about commuter patterns. Right. And so that usually leaves in some communities. It would leave more of a lull during the day. Keep in mind if you're talking about, you know, huge cities or, you know, it could be a bit different, there's a lot of mid-sized North American cities that kind of have the similar pattern.
00:15:45:18 - 00:16:04:00
Dan Hendry
Right. And so working really closely with Kingston Transit to, you know, create it, create a bit of a system that makes sense both for communications and marketing and etiquette and that type of stuff. You know, if 30 kids can show up randomly at a bus stop, it can slow down certain routes and stuff. But it's about a strong relationship and communication, you know, that is allowed for that.
00:16:04:02 - 00:16:20:21
Dan Hendry
And, and it's utilizing, you know, there's more bums on seats during the day, which sometimes that's when you see those empty busses. Right. And so, the picture you show there before, if anyone can imagine, it's like it's that's actually Queen's University, one of Canada's oldest university. So that's kind of protected more European. Well, it was you know, I think found it.
00:16:20:21 - 00:16:45:15
Dan Hendry
I don't think I like how many years or 200 years ago maybe. Right. It's quite old. and so that's what you see there. But, yeah. No, I think it's, it's, it's kind of, it's around that kind of that narrative of, of getting them young, get them to see it, normalizing it and, and getting parents and teachers to say, oh, you use the bus today because kids can teach up, you know, but if I go to an I don't say you should use the bus and they'll tell me where to go and it won't be on a bus necessarily, you know.
00:16:45:20 - 00:16:59:24
Dan Hendry
And so I think that's part of it too, is kids can normalize it, get excited about it. And then kind of train and tell their parents, as well. And that's I think what's creating the culture here, from, you know, the earlier kids and then leading up to high school, which gives them more autonomy and value for for relationships in the community.
00:16:59:24 - 00:17:02:06
Dan Hendry
That's what we're seeing, you know. Yeah.
00:17:02:09 - 00:17:29:05
John Simmerman
Are we also seeing that sense of autonomy in the sense of freedom resulting in, more kids being like, oh, yeah, I, I can get to where I need to go. I can, I can use transit. I can lean into. Are we seeing, you know, sort of the delay, especially in the high school, you know, of them feeling there's that pressure to have to get their driver's license and do that, you know?
00:17:29:05 - 00:17:44:02
John Simmerman
Hey, no, I can jump on the bike or I can walk, or I can leverage that and use public transit. I don't really need to to head down that direction of mobility and car brain. Thinking of I have to drive.
00:17:44:04 - 00:18:03:10
Dan Hendry
Exactly. And I think I quite got stories for days. Right. And and instances. but yeah. No, I like for example, right now I have a college student helping me with the placement of the get on the bus movement with the small change from there, this national movement. Right. So I know we'll be talking with that. But my point is, when he's doing this placement with the American communications, he's for Kingston.
00:18:03:12 - 00:18:21:00
Dan Hendry
He participated in the high school program. And the reason why he wants to support me, he said, was because of just the amount of impact it helped with him. Is life, right? one parent was at one side of town. you know, gone to school, work, volunteering. And so it's that type of thing. Another thing I like to drop comparison to, which I find interesting, and this isn't a visual that I have.
00:18:21:00 - 00:18:36:06
Dan Hendry
I forgot about this. I didn't remember the story that I was going to bring it up, but I remember seeing an article, I think it was in England years ago where it was talking about the, the autonomy, different generations had over the years. And if you can imagine, a big kind of circle. Right. Like the great grandfather was like eight miles or something.
00:18:36:06 - 00:18:55:12
Dan Hendry
They could wander the fields and go forever, right? You know, the grandfather, the father, and then the kid. And the kid was like, basically nowhere. Right? And my daughter, when we we lived in a part when we moved to this house, she asked if she could go up front. And so it's that autonomy of the community. These kids are learning bus routes, timing, responsibility, getting around place.
00:18:55:12 - 00:18:59:01
Dan Hendry
And I think that's a part of what we're talking about. And seeing as well.
00:18:59:03 - 00:19:23:02
John Simmerman
Yeah, fascinating. Because yes, it talks about those generational levels of the fact that, you know, our current generation, their world has shrunk to to the side size of, you know, very, very, very small. in some cases, you know, in some neighborhoods, it's literally the end of the driveway. Yeah. You know, there's the helicopter. Parents are like, no, I don't feel comfortable with you getting out of my sight, even.
00:19:23:02 - 00:19:33:15
John Simmerman
And so, it it has a profound impact on on the maturation and the, ability for, for children to, to actually turn into functioning adults.
00:19:33:18 - 00:19:49:29
Dan Hendry
So 100% actually. And I read this just that I, not too long ago was a pediatric journal that was talking about the mental well-being and, and, and the connection to autonomy and choice with units and how that's declining. And there's a there's a strong connection to mental health as well. Right. And I see it with my own, my own child.
00:19:49:29 - 00:20:04:27
Dan Hendry
Right. And so that's why I think these things are so important. It looks different now. It's not fields. You know, we're not collecting crayfish necessarily like I did as a kid. But this is this is different. This is their environment. That's what they have. But the autonomy to move around confidence, understanding is what opens, I think, and brings community together too.
00:20:05:04 - 00:20:08:16
Dan Hendry
Right. And I think that's, ties into the mental health side, you know.
00:20:08:19 - 00:20:18:19
John Simmerman
So you mentioned it earlier. So this is get on the bus. caaca. The website and you reference this as a national movement now?
00:20:18:21 - 00:20:35:23
Dan Hendry
Yeah. Across Canada. you know, it's a it's a thought. It's driven by, as I said, a charity called the Small Change Fund, which is a great partner and collaborator on so many different, sustainable and charitable initiatives across Canada. Basically, what happened was for about a decade I've been running this in Kingston, working on I'm excited about it.
00:20:35:23 - 00:20:53:14
Dan Hendry
I've done a Ted X and the al Gore Climate Rally project. Whenever anybody across, even at Ithaca, New York, I was having conversations, you know, years ago with people from before Covid. But whenever I know and stumbled across this work, whether it be researchers or passionate grassroot members or council members in other communities, I take the phone call and I take the phone call, and I because I love it.
00:20:53:14 - 00:21:13:27
Dan Hendry
I just see it firsthand. Right? And I believe that it does so much good. And I've seen it. And, and that's what we're pulling out today. but in about 2001, I realized I kind of hit a wall of my capacity, right? Like there was no structure, there was no brand, there was no support. and a friend of mine, he said, well, you need time and money and and so how to find that was to find a good partner.
00:21:13:27 - 00:21:40:03
Dan Hendry
And his name's Burkhart Mossberg. He's a very well known Canadian, in the environmental sector, who started actually, the small Change Fund. And I got, I got a hold on, kind of like, kind of like what I call to you, or emailed you. And he's like, yeah, let's talk. And that's what, together for about a year and a half, we wrote grants, and we were funded, to work at least the next couple of years on building this national movement of a network of communities across Canada looking at youth friendly transit policy.
00:21:40:06 - 00:21:55:21
Dan Hendry
it has to be free for youth. But the thing is that what I've realized, too, there's a lot of pressure nowadays with budgets and down on that lower level, it doesn't necessarily have to. It can be a collaboration of, you know, between finance and preexisting dollars. And it doesn't just have to be free, given by the transit authority.
00:21:55:21 - 00:22:14:26
Dan Hendry
There's ways that communities can support it. And so, trying to bring together that for thought process across Canada, I always answer phone calls, webinars, other resources. And then another big part of this too, because the policy once one piece. But then there's the training aspect and tried to help help create systemic ability to help other communities train their youth.
00:22:14:26 - 00:22:41:02
Dan Hendry
Right. And whether that be digitizing resources or training the trainer modules or webinars or calls or supporting them where they are, because every community is a bit different, you know, it's and transportation systems can be a bit different. So really taking this core knowledge of what we've established in Kingston and helping bring it across Canada and honestly, across North America, in 2017, there's a master's thesis that said it could be applied to help drive youth independence and transit future transit ridership.
00:22:41:02 - 00:22:50:29
Dan Hendry
And so, you know, knowing all this and seeing it firsthand is just kind of been a spark in my life to just keep on talking about it and sharing the story and and supporting and learning from others that are doing it themselves, you know.
00:22:51:01 - 00:22:57:18
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And you said that was right around 2021. So right during the height of the pandemic.
00:22:57:20 - 00:23:16:29
Dan Hendry
Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Exactly. And so it was 2023 in June we started I get on the bus, get on the bus CA which you'll see a bit more about it. if anyone's listening, please reach out if you're interested to learn more or other resources. But. Yeah, it was then and we've been working actively supporting communities, advocating for it, and creating resources to help others.
00:23:17:02 - 00:23:36:26
John Simmerman
Yeah. Fantastic. And again, this is the website. Get on the bus start CA. So folks, be sure to, head on over there. Dan, I'm going to pop on over to your, Community Solutions, website as well. so, you know, clearly you're passionate about this. You've got your part time gig over there. You got your other thing that you're doing over there.
00:23:37:02 - 00:23:58:21
John Simmerman
It sounds like you're also serving as a consultant. And an innovator and helping other folks, even taking calls, you know, from south of the border when us Americans call. Yes, help, help. so is that sort of the is this the umbrella that you're sort of operating with that in terms of being able to to provide guidance to folks?
00:23:58:24 - 00:24:20:12
Dan Hendry
Well, everything. Yeah. Like structurally, everything I do on this, outside of Kingston is through get on the bus through the small change fund. and so but what the beautiful thing is, if you're on the, on my website, Dan henry.com, the reason why I consolidated and made a website about myself really was because for all those years that all the resources were scattered and no one had anywhere to go.
00:24:20:18 - 00:24:41:02
Dan Hendry
So I created that timeline and stuff. But everything moving forward. Yeah, if there's any support and and consulting or anything like that, definitely taking it through the charity just to help support the work as a whole. Right. And so, do I do other consulting for other sustainable initiatives and climate action? Yes. But anything through my passion, is through the partnership with a Small Change Fund.
00:24:41:04 - 00:24:53:28
John Simmerman
I love it, I love it. Talk a little bit about the small change fund. It is. You mentioned it in passing there for a second. what's the story behind that organization?
00:24:54:01 - 00:25:11:05
Dan Hendry
got it's, so the small change fund it it's it catalyzes. And again, I work with them. Right. And so I might not have the perfect explanation of all the tentacles because they doing so much. but it was actually one of Canada's kind of like a go fund me, but for charities. Right. And so the, the, the idea is, is it's a charity.
00:25:11:06 - 00:25:30:29
Dan Hendry
There's a lot of grassroots movements of partners that maybe don't have structure or need support. And what this does is allows for a community and a platform to, to raise funds for their different initiatives. I think there's over 120 partners. They work on a variety of things tied to social justice, indigenous reconciliation and climate and just generally a great group of people to work with.
00:25:30:29 - 00:25:47:07
Dan Hendry
And so what you can see there, actually, yeah, there's, they get on the bus, crowdfunding page. And so that's one of their course. but they also offer just so much, especially for someone like myself, that was, you know, maybe a bit of a, a lone wolf talking about this for a long time.
00:25:47:10 - 00:26:02:22
Dan Hendry
in the way of outside of Kingston, there's definitely a lot of support and people and active players in Kingston working on executing the program here. but, yeah, once we, we found them, like, for us would say it's peas and carrots. You know, since then I have looked back, you know, it's that's the support that this movement needs, you know.
00:26:02:24 - 00:26:25:09
John Simmerman
Yeah. That is fascinating. Yeah. That's great also. Yeah. So that's that's cool. It really is a platform for being able to do some of the fundraising for the other nonprofits gives you that, that umbrella of that arm to be able to do that. So that that makes complete sense. I want to play a short little video here from the mayor of Kingston, because that was one of my thoughts.
00:26:25:09 - 00:26:43:06
John Simmerman
I was like, okay, so where's the politicians on all this? And are they supportive of this? And and, the fine mayor, was able to answer this for me because I think this is kind of cool. And after, this is only, like, 90s long, so we can chat a little bit about that when it's done. Perfect.
00:26:43:08 - 00:27:18:16
Mayor Paterson
Here in Kingston, we're making increasing youth ridership on public transit a key priority, not only to increase social equity and travel independence, but also to create long term transit users in the city. Since we introduced the free high school transit program back in 2012, we've seen enormous uptake from students across the city. What this program does, this allows high school students better access to job opportunities, extracurricular activities, shopping, participation, community events well, at the same time helping them feel empowered with their travel decisions.
00:27:18:18 - 00:27:40:00
Mayor Paterson
It also teaches them time management skills, and it helps to build their confidence in moving around our city by navigating our public transportation system. As mayor, I've seen firsthand the positive impact that this program has on youth in our city and how it really is creating long term transit users. But this program is also helping us as a city to meet our climate change goals.
00:27:40:02 - 00:28:02:29
Mayor Paterson
By encouraging and educating young people to take active transportation options, it means fewer vehicles on the road reduce emissions and improved air quality. Many of our students even have the chance to ride our state of the art electric busses, which we've recently rolled out. I'm so proud of the work we've done here in Kingston. Partnership with the local school boards to introduce free transit for high school students.
00:28:03:01 - 00:28:17:19
Mayor Paterson
I encourage you to look at other ways that you can reduce barriers and get youth on transit in your community. It's great for the city and the goals that you want to achieve, but it's also great for youth in your community, helping to support and equip them for the future.
00:28:17:21 - 00:29:08:21
John Simmerman
Fantastic. Nice. it was obviously well prepared. Good notes. Well delivered. It really is encouraging. And again, it it it leads me to think that next step is, is how about that first and last mile or kilometer 0.6 or whatever it is, you know, because I mean, ultimately that's our biggest challenge, right, in North America is that. Yeah, I mean, be great if there's if there's good, effective transit and there's good headways and, and it's getting to meaningful destinations, but then it's like, okay, yeah, can I get to transit and can I get to my meaningful destinations when I get off a transit.
00:29:08:23 - 00:29:34:23
Dan Hendry
100%? You know, and I think now, you know, for a decade in watching this and seeing it and actually students like maturing out and using it and talking about it. I think that's part of that. Now, some of these different decisions, you know, will take different time lengths, right. Infrastructure, things like that, technology that's available. But I go back to like in that in that short video with the climate reality, when when I said, you know, it takes a good transit, you know, for basically for people to use, but you need people use good transit.
00:29:34:23 - 00:29:55:05
Dan Hendry
Right. And I think this extends to, to that last mile idea. The more people that are using transit, taking the walking, the bus stops, you know, using it effectively, there's going to be more pressure and advocacy to to see those other pieces of that last mile. You know, we're building in an environment that has been there are going to have constraints from an environmental point of view because we built infrastructure.
00:29:55:09 - 00:30:15:15
Dan Hendry
Right. but I think it does help with with bringing attention when people are using it, advocating to continually to build. And it goes to the GHG point to we can electrify all our busses, but if people aren't using them, you know, that's not helping, right? And so I really fundamentally believe from a climate point of view, technology point of view, last mile health, all that.
00:30:15:20 - 00:30:30:20
Dan Hendry
It is that balance of we got to get people in the past week and then we can build better routes or routes, more people, more rides, more people, and then more attention to things that tie into the bigger picture about location, land use, development, last mile, all those other pieces, you know.
00:30:30:22 - 00:30:55:02
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. What is the sort of the the result of all of this? I mean, we've got we've had enough time. We've seen some of the data, the ridership numbers, you know, from the program itself, 600,000 plus, you know, priority to, to, to the, you know, the pandemic and all of that has and obviously transit everywhere took a hit during the pandemic.
00:30:55:02 - 00:31:25:28
John Simmerman
And I'm assuming, you know, it happened there as well. but now posts pandemic reality 2003 going into 2023, going into 2024, where are we at on the whole modal shift or modal breakdown? I mean, how many people are routinely writing transit for to meet their daily needs? and walking and biking versus jumping in a single occupancy vehicle?
00:31:26:01 - 00:31:47:11
Dan Hendry
I know there are stats available. I don't have them currently in front of me because they are produced by the city of Kingston. especially, which they did a deep dive on kind of the, the multi, they use the usage breakdown. Right. And so but what I can say from my knowledge of what we've created through this system is in 2017, it was a big year because that was the year that you know the fare changed and and they actually created a youth pass.
00:31:47:13 - 00:32:08:22
Dan Hendry
So after high school, I think it's for 15 to 24. So if you're not in high school or up to 24, you can buy a just kind of monthly pass. And that pass sales have gone up 140% from 2017 to 2023, showing the correlation of monthly pass purchases after high school. Right. And so that's driving ridership, which is one data point that I think is really important.
00:32:08:24 - 00:32:22:14
Dan Hendry
I mean, it's not the same, but you know, when I walk out in the community or if I'm on the bus like I'm the bus guy, right? Like literally thousands of kids that have seen me for that 20 minutes. But that's what I always think is crazy. I've only been on the bus with each group for 20 minutes.
00:32:22:14 - 00:32:41:28
Dan Hendry
Yes, it's all of them and it's a very repetitive time of year for me. I say the presentation, what? My voice is really cracked by the end of it, but a lot of them still recognize me. And I think. How impactful is that? First, yeah, it's early grade nines important too, by the way. I like to bring this up because your whole family is going through a transition to high school, right?
00:32:41:28 - 00:32:55:07
Dan Hendry
Like you're growing up. The family is growing up. Right. And so that's when I think it's a really pivotal point to. And they're young enough to I don't mean listen, but they they're eager right. They're still it's a little bit their shoes are too big. They're not grown up yet. You know. And that's just like my own daughter.
00:32:55:07 - 00:33:13:02
Dan Hendry
She can go grade ten. Right. And so what we've seen is I think just, just the amount of, of comments from, from things like, like during that, during the day field trips, not just the field trip, but the location they're going, they're selling out theater events during the day and other things that used to not always be that way.
00:33:13:02 - 00:33:31:24
Dan Hendry
And and so for me, it's about taking all these kind of small data points or observations to kind of weave together the bigger story. But yeah, that's what I would say from a whole. It's just been really neat to see. And then other things like parents saying, you know, what a friend of mine or a colleague of mine, she said, actually, when we visited Vancouver, like Canada on the West Coast, I was going to rent a car.
00:33:31:24 - 00:33:49:11
Dan Hendry
And I said, my mom or my son said, mom, don't bother. I'll figure out the transit system. We'll get downtown, no problem. Right. And so it's that transferable skill set mindset that they can take wherever they go, wherever they come to Arizona, they go to New York City, wherever this transit transit might look a little different, but the skill sets there and the confidence is there.
00:33:49:17 - 00:33:51:28
Dan Hendry
Right. And I think that's important.
00:33:52:00 - 00:34:09:23
John Simmerman
I'm really glad you brought that up, too, because, you know, I had mentioned, that, you know, when I jump on the bus there in Boulder, I'm seeing, you know, the middle schoolers on the bus and I'm seeing, you know, the high schoolers using the bus, but they're, they're they're also, admittedly also walking and biking a lot, too, in that community.
00:34:09:26 - 00:34:30:03
John Simmerman
But part of of that is somebody who's taught them that skill some and and shown them that. And that's a really good point to what you're talking about because you're you and you. I had to chuckle when you were talking about, you know, you get recognized by an entire generation of kids, you know that, remember? Oh, yeah. You're the bus guy.
00:34:30:05 - 00:34:46:06
John Simmerman
I had the same thing living in Hawaii when I was the bike ed, you know, teacher and I would go around to each of the elementary schools and teach the fourth graders. And, you know, I see them, you know, years later and they're like, oh, yeah, done. You know, it's that are you out there that they're in Hawaii?
00:34:46:06 - 00:35:12:15
John Simmerman
They would always, you know, an elder, a male elders, always. You know, considered, uncle. And so Uncle John got a it's like, oh, it's it's good. Now, earlier you had mentioned, you know, it's even stimulated this process. His, his, stimuli, I guess, is a good word against master's thesis and other types of study. you sent through this the design for social innovation and case studies from around the world.
00:35:12:21 - 00:35:14:19
John Simmerman
Talk a little bit about this.
00:35:14:21 - 00:35:38:04
Dan Hendry
Yeah. So this was an opportunity I kind of saw on LinkedIn. It was it was around user design, you know, and it was around how to create interventions to, to to move social innovation for that, that side of not just innovation and a product, but an innovation and a process potentially, or something for societal good. And I submitted yeah, I submitted, a bit of a, an abstract, I think, of some of the work that's been done to date.
00:35:38:06 - 00:35:59:00
Dan Hendry
and they loved it. And yeah, it made this international book for, for social innovation and design. And so, it's published in there, which is purchasable online. and, yeah. Again, it's just every time in my life that I've seen an opportunity to tell this story different ways I have, you know, because I don't feel like, you know, I don't know how much, in fact, it will.
00:35:59:00 - 00:36:22:20
Dan Hendry
I feel like I'm trying my best, but I when I was a kid, I wanted to be an archeologist. Well, I wasn't maybe as, astute of a student to do that, but I know this is the medium of the story and the narrative that I have to repeat, because it's special. Right? And what I've seen parents time, access to school, sports, volunteering work, continuing to use ridership, right?
00:36:22:20 - 00:36:43:10
Dan Hendry
Confidence, access to mental health or other resources. Like, that's where I really see it could shift transit systems and lead to to healthier communities because I'm watching it. Right. Like I'm watching the conference. My own daughter, who has autism, you know, she might not drive, but she can use the bus now. And there's there's a whole bunch of different people that can use it for different ways.
00:36:43:13 - 00:37:04:00
Dan Hendry
And for me, now that we see more than ever, I think you probably see in the States, too, it's some some information. It's all over the place that social media is, is about building community, right, and confidence and community with trust. And, yeah. So yeah, it's it's, anytime I get to tell a story, I try, you know, and so and just like today and I appreciate this, you know.
00:37:04:03 - 00:37:16:24
John Simmerman
I love that too. And I love the title of of this little piece here. And it's, it's a title that I see in multiple locations, including on, some of the videos is throwing car culture under the bus.
00:37:16:26 - 00:37:31:27
Dan Hendry
Yeah. That was come up. Actually, we created that, I was lucky enough in 2009 to do a Ted, in Ottawa. So the capital city of Canada on the National Arts Center stage was maybe 100 people like my dog could have repeated that. Talk to you. I can tell you that much. I said it so many times.
00:37:31:29 - 00:37:50:24
Dan Hendry
I it was my coach at the time there. Yeah, I have a coach. and they said we gotta find a really good title. And it was kind of. Yeah. His name was Terry. And and he did, he thought, I've used it for certain things because I think it's a, it's that cultural piece because the other things I find is sometimes when I'm talking to adults that don't use the bus or never use the bus or don't think about this, it's not their day.
00:37:50:27 - 00:38:07:15
Dan Hendry
There's a lot of barriers. Yeah, well, I need it for this reason. I can't do this. But it's not about everything. It's about a piece. And I think that's why are we are normalized around a culture because our environment is skating it. And there's positive and negative feedback cycles for anything in human or not inhuman, but are being human.
00:38:07:15 - 00:38:23:10
Dan Hendry
Right. And and so yeah, it was about let's talk about this, you know, like, you know, there's so many good things about moving and exercise and health related. Right? Obviously, it's a big part of what you do. and this is just a piece and an intervention that can help in so many ways. Yeah.
00:38:23:12 - 00:38:51:10
John Simmerman
Yeah, I love it. And we'll be sure to include the links, to, you know, all of these different, studies and videos, including your Ted talk, as well. And this is just a fascinating, fascinating area of study and passion area of work that you're you're working on. Is there another community that has really seen what you have achieved in Kingston and just run with it?
00:38:51:12 - 00:39:12:01
Dan Hendry
Well, I would say that, not ten years in, but there's definitely, there's a lot of communities and that's what get on the bus is about building that network, sharing knowledge, maybe a community of practice or webinars and expertise and training and structures and, you know, trying to get through barriers like costing and and doing it. I'm working trying to find money for a cost benefit analysis that really shows how much money is this?
00:39:12:06 - 00:39:30:26
Dan Hendry
What what value is this creating for communities? How much money are we spending on kids getting to mental health? Things are getting to school or parents time or or GHG greenhouse gases like what is that? Right. And so yeah, like Halifax, Nova Scotia has a pilot project they're working on Victoria, British Columbia. So coast to coast in Canada, that's like LA, New York, you know what I mean?
00:39:30:26 - 00:39:52:12
Dan Hendry
Not as big. Don't get me wrong. I gave you an A there too. but, yeah. No, there's definitely multiple communities in Canada. And since we've been advocating for it to since even 2023, Oakville, Burlington. So more and more communities are seeing this work, whether it be the body of work that we've created in Kingston or the the amplification and support we have with get on the bus right.
00:39:52:12 - 00:40:09:26
Dan Hendry
Really, it's the get on the bus is what it is now, right? I do my Kingston work. I keep it going. but what we're doing nationally, I think is pretty special. Yeah, it's, there's about 11 or 12 communities I just read on the other edge of popped up. And so that's the beauty of the movement where they're using this information, they're using the body of work they're contacting if they have specific questions.
00:40:09:26 - 00:40:25:10
Dan Hendry
Well, how do we angle this way if we're doing a presentation or do you have any stats on this? You know, and we have all that consolidated and we just support, communities where they are, whether it be a trusted, staff member, parent, you know, where are you? What are you interested in? Let's have a conversation, you know.
00:40:25:16 - 00:40:52:12
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And is there anything that you would kind of boil it down, your experience that you've had? if if a community is reaching out, they're just learning about this and getting really, really inspired with this. What would you say is the very first thing that they should do? And if you had a word of caution for them, you know, hey, make sure you do this to.
00:40:52:15 - 00:41:11:22
Dan Hendry
Yeah, I think that one thing is just to look at what's happening, like take the time to to look at the communities. What are the action plans at different institutions. You know what what are their operational plans, strategic plans. What are some different grassroots organizations or partnerships that exist? You know, it's always easier starting where something is right and finding different narratives too.
00:41:11:24 - 00:41:28:05
Dan Hendry
Right. I could talk to you about this, about health benefits, the environmental benefits, the youth autonomy, the education, the parent time. Like there are so many values. So if you're looking at something like this, what is the priority in your community? Right. What are act what's actually being talked about, how it could resonate with different groups of people?
00:41:28:07 - 00:41:49:00
Dan Hendry
that's one thing. caution would be not always just putting it on. you know, the misspelled sometimes depending on the structure, potentially won't be a city. Right? The, the state or the province in Canada, the federal like where our resources and and with civics, like who's responsible for what? Right. And and how could you kind of align some of that?
00:41:49:03 - 00:42:04:21
Dan Hendry
if. Right. The other thing I would say is a beautiful word. I think we use it more nowadays and different things, but a pilot, it doesn't have to. Like I've seen people give me the like, a community in Canada said, well, we can't do that because if we did that tomorrow, we could have we could, our transit system can have the capacity.
00:42:04:21 - 00:42:21:03
Dan Hendry
So we first thing do you assume that you're going to do what we did after a decade tomorrow? That's a nice assumption. But also the idea of what about one grade, one school, one group? Where can you start? And that's what I always say, because a lot of people are saying, well, we can't do this. We don't have the money.
00:42:21:06 - 00:42:39:07
Dan Hendry
If that's the case, where do you start to start creating the narrative, creating the partnerships? Right. And I think I think in every community that's a starting point. and that's why I get on the bus, you know, talking about the small change funds about is working with them to start having those conversations of, well, what could it look like, you know, and, and what partners exist.
00:42:39:09 - 00:42:56:04
John Simmerman
Yeah, yeah. And I pulled up the, you know, get on the bus, get ready to get on the bus. The you know, this is how we get started. page here on the website. So, yes. also, you know, as your first step, make sure you head on over to the website and click on that page, and get over there.
00:42:56:10 - 00:43:04:18
John Simmerman
Dan, this has been so much fun. Is there anything that we haven't covered that you want to make sure that we leave the audience with?
00:43:04:20 - 00:43:23:18
Dan Hendry
well, get to the website, I guess, but we covered that. It's. No, I know it's more of just I, I hope that any of those, you know, people listening, whether they're interested in active transportation or health or transit or youth or whatever aspect, I hope they consider, you know, looking into something like this because I've seen it just do good, you know, and that's why I'm here talking today.
00:43:23:18 - 00:43:40:06
Dan Hendry
So now I really appreciate the platform, the time, your questions, the the the overview of everything. And maybe we'll do a check in in a year or two to see how many more other communities because it's rolling in Canada. and it'd be nice to get some American counterparts and support some other communities, to try to look at doing something similar, you know.
00:43:40:06 - 00:43:41:23
Dan Hendry
So thanks again for the time.
00:43:41:25 - 00:44:01:17
John Simmerman
Yeah, you're you are quite welcome in, in in my pitch. You know, since this is going out globally to is that. Yeah. I mean transit shouldn't shouldn't be like the scary thing that's that's you know it's just kind of out there and like oh I don't know who's doing that. who's using it. I think I saw one of the busses, you know, the creepy.
00:44:01:17 - 00:44:23:03
John Simmerman
And then it was like, no, no, no, no, it's it shouldn't be the scary thing. And to your point too, it's like it is a skill once too. Once you learn how to use transit, it becomes pretty intuitive. And then, yeah, it's sort of empowering. You don't have to feel like when you travel to a different city that you're going to have to, oh my gosh, I got to rent a rental car and be able to do that.
00:44:23:03 - 00:44:36:28
John Simmerman
I know it's more like, okay, let's figure out, you know, what is the ability to to be able to use transit to get to our ultimate destination when we get there. So yeah, it's it's it's very empowering to have that and feel like you have that skill set.
00:44:37:00 - 00:44:53:20
Dan Hendry
I think it is a skill, you know, and I think it's always funny when we travel and we go to a beautiful places and we're like, oh, wasn't it great? We walked in like combustion and we'll go home like, but those are communities too, right? And so yeah, it's how do we learn and continue to, to, to better our communities, to be more honestly equal, accessible.
00:44:53:22 - 00:45:07:03
Dan Hendry
you community minded, you know, and I think that that's a big thing that I'm very proud of. I just feel that, you know, access and giving is hard if you don't have transportation and and there's a lot of resources and just doesn't matter if my daughter is going to play Dungeons and Dragons, that's what she does, you know?
00:45:07:03 - 00:45:17:27
Dan Hendry
And and to find community, you have to be able to get to, I think to and, and that's what I'm hopeful for. So yeah, anyone listening, if they want to reach out and and share their stories or learn more, I would be happy to have conversations.
00:45:17:27 - 00:45:27:02
John Simmerman
You love it, I love it. Well, Dan Henry, this has been such an honor and pleasure chatting with you here today. Thank you for joining me on the Active Towns podcast.
00:45:27:04 - 00:45:28:06
Dan Hendry
Thanks for having me. Thanks. Go.
00:45:28:13 - 00:45:42:29
John Simmerman
Hey, thank you all so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Dan Henry. And if you did, please say give it a thumbs up. Leave a comment down below and share it with a friend. And if you haven't done so already, be honored to have you subscribe to the channel. Just click on the subscription button down below and ring that notification bell.
00:45:43:04 - 00:46:09:24
John Simmerman
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00:46:09:27 - 00:46:33:26
John Simmerman
and until next time, this John signing off by wishing you much activity, health and happiness. Cheers and again, sending a huge thank you out to all my Active Towns Ambassadors supporting the channel on Patreon. Buy me a coffee YouTube. Super! Thanks. As well as making contributions to the nonprofit and purchasing things from the Active Town store, every little bit adds up and it's much appreciated.
00:46:33:28 - 00:46:35:05
John Simmerman
Thank you all so much!