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We share stories of how the blood of Jesus has transformed ours and others' lives.
Hey everybody, welcome the Red Ledger. I'm Denalee Bell and my co-host Lissa Frasure, is joining me today. I'm really excited about what we're talking about 'cause it is interesting. We are going to be focusing on John Levin and when you propose this to me, I was like, oh, there's just nothing in it for me. And then I've had three weeks of being in John 11.
Yeah. Which is interesting. Mm-hmm. So I'm just gonna ask you guys a question. Have you ever had maybe a promise from God? It's not happening. Or you had this hope, this dream, even a calling, maybe your ministry and it's not happening. You know, we had Pastor Dan on recently and he's single in 37, and he has this hope and this dream of being married and it's not happening.
And in my case that I was going through when I didn't think this, uh, was the right, uh, podcast for us, um, I was thinking, you know, I'm, we're in, we're in the end, we're in the final inning, we're in the 11th chapter, right? Yeah. And it's not happening. God's not showing up how I want him to. Hmm. And it, it was.
You know, God, God's really good. Mm-hmm. So it's really no surprise that he took us to John Levin and we'll just kind of do a quick summary of where we're at in John Levin before we get going. And, and that is Mary and Martha Sisters of Lazarus have sent for Jesus because Lazarus is sick and they want him to be healed.
And no doubt they have seen much healing. 'cause this is the final miracle. Right. Right. Mm-hmm. And they know Jesus is capable of it, and so they send for Jesus, but it's too late. And but is it too late? But is it in their minds? Of course. You know, he, he's, he's dead. Yeah. Right. And Martha is that Martha runs out and goes, where were you, Jesus.
Mm-hmm. Like, we sent for you. Yeah. What's going on here? Yeah. And I, I just think of me going through that situation here in the last couple weeks, like, where are you? I. This is not your promise to us. I've asked, I sought, I've knocked, and you're not showing up. Right. Have you ever had that happen? I have lots of times.
Mm-hmm. That's, I think that's why the Lord led me to mm-hmm. John 11, because I, I've asked those whys multiple times and I don't know, I don't know that they're wrong, you know, I don't, you know, shouldn't judge that. But, um, but he shows us in there that, did he not show up? He did show up just maybe not on my time, or maybe not in the way I thought.
Maybe not in the way Martha thought and praise the Lord that he didn't show up the way Martha thought. Right. Because it was better, you know, he mm-hmm. It was better. He showed, he glorified God in such a mighty way, and there was, there was so much that everybody experienced there. It's just so, there's just a lot in that chapter.
I kind of look at myself in that same situation and think of how I felt, and I wonder how Mary and Martha were feeling, you know, to know that Jesus could have performed this miracle. Right. You know, I, I felt a little abandoned, a little betrayed even, and disappointed. And I'm wondering if that's what was going through their heads even.
I, I really wanted to relate to them. Mm-hmm. And what I kept seeing is, is that nobody is thinking that Jesus is going to raise him from the dead until the resurrection. No. Like, that's not even an option. And I thought to myself, I probably would've thought the same. I, I think I would've too, because, so back then, this is some interesting information I came upon.
They believed that within the first three days of somebody's death, that person might come back to life if you prayed hard enough or Right. Or whatever it is. Some people call it a superstition, but I also wonder if it isn't possible that maybe that was happening. Right. I mean, I don't see that recorded in the Bible, but he showed up on the fourth day when it was impossible for this to happen.
Yeah. Well, even in, in Jo, uh, yeah, Jonah, he was in, he was in the, uh, whale's mouth Oh. For three days. Interesting. Yep. So, you know, um, Jesus showed up. Mm-hmm. After what we would've thought, oh, it's not the right time. You waited way too long. He stinks. Yeah. Stinks. He's decaying. Yeah, he's, yeah. It's over.
Mm-hmm. There's no coming back from that, right? Yeah. There's no coming back from that. Yeah. That's, and that's what they're thinking. Yes. That's what I would've thought. I, I, I mean, if I put myself in their shoes, I can only, you know, see myself thinking that and then going, oh, you know what happened? And when you read, when you read through, you look at Thomas, you know, here's Thomas again.
'cause he's talking to the, um, to the disciples and he is like, well, we're gonna go back, you know, we'll go back in two days. And they're like, what? You know, we're gonna go back to Judea where they're trying to stone you. They're trying to kill you. What, what? And Thomas is like, yeah, let's go back there. We can all die.
This is good. See, I wasn't sure if I took it that way as sarcasm or he's really just gonna follow Jesus. I took it into the fire. I took it as he's following Jesus. But I heard some sarcasm there like going. Yeah, sure. Let's go die. Let's, why would you say that? Let's, you know, that's interesting. So I am thinking, and I, I wasn't thinking about this particular issue.
So I have somebody I love very much, very close to me, and they struggled with drugs and alcohol and we're going down a really bad path. Mm. And I prayed for them and prayed for them. Yeah. And I really felt like God had given me a vision of what that life was gonna look like eventually. Yeah. And it went on for years.
Mm-hmm. And years. Mm-hmm. And there's a pain in that, right? Mm-hmm. Because you see someone and you know their potential and who they could be and you love them. Yeah. And I just so many times felt like God had abandoned me. Yes. And I was, I was disappointed. Mm-hmm. But interesting story. 'cause this has a happy ending.
Even when that person was getting healed, I didn't think it was possible that their mind could ever be the same, because the conversations we would have had degraded to a level of, I didn't think it was possible they could come back. Right. I even, even sober. Hmm. Their mind wasn't entirely intact. Yeah.
But he, you know, he did give me a vision of what that looked like. Mm-hmm. And I started to not believe that vision anymore. 'cause it just, it was too much to hope for. Right. And even though I know these stories, I know these miracles. Yeah. It was too much for me to hope for because I think we put God in a box, in a box all the time and we think what he's capable.
Okay. So I see he's capable of raising a man. Yeah. You know? But would he do that for me? Yeah. Or how often do you aware of it? Or would he do that for me or would he do that for this other person? Yeah. And he did. Totally. And this person came back as fully restored. Praise God, living life. And God showed up for this person in a mighty, mighty way.
Of course he did. And I, I cannot even believe that this is the same person. Yeah. It is way more than I hoped for. Mm-hmm. It is way more than I thought possible. I, it reminds me, I, um, after I had, uh, received salvation and started my journey seeking out the Lord, I had a journal and I was praying for family members, friends, extended family members for different things, you know?
Mm-hmm. And I had dates, I wrote dates down, and I had my little prayer room, and I'd go in and I'd have my, um, music playing and I'd have scriptures put up on the wall for each person, whatever, whatever the scripture was, if I was pray, whatever I was praying. So I was focusing on that word, focusing on that person.
And I. And I don't know, about a year or two ago, I had come across that journal and there was a time, one of the first pages I had prayed for my brother and my, his family to receive salvation and to come to Christ. Oh. And it took seven years. Wow. Before he did. And before they did it took seven years. And, and I didn't pray for them every day like that, about that I didn't, but I started to wonder.
Mm-hmm. Multiple, I wondered, I was like, I, I don't think he'll ever, I don't think it'll ever happen. And like you said, he's better, like to see them growing, to see them, it's just amazing. Mm-hmm. The way the family dynamic has come together, the way he operates as a father, the way the, the kids looking, uh, it's just so.
God's just awesome. And I never thought it would happen. I didn't. So this story is a great testament to, God does show up. He does. And it's not our timing, it's his. Mm-hmm. And we can't be putting him in a box. No. We can't. So often I think we don't understand. It's a hard issue for us. You know, I want you to come to Jesus.
I want you to see things my way. See things my way. Right. Like they should, like they should. Right. They should do things our way if we ran the world. Yeah. But what we fail to understand is that it's okay that, I mean, the, the word says be still and no. Oh, this is time for a nice plug, red Let your gifts.com Yeah.
That is a, that is a verse on patience. That is a verse on confidence. Having confidence in him. That is a verse that's like just. It's not on You think, you know, you think, you know, I think I know you do. Yeah. But come to find out, even, even the disciples and Martha and Mary, they all thought they knew, but look it, they didn't.
Isn't that interesting? They didn't like they were close to Jesus. They were friends. They were friends. Yeah. And they didn't know they walked with him. Yes. And they didn't know. Mm-hmm. And so sometimes, and they've seen live those miracles. Yeah. Because we're at the end. This is the last one. Yeah. Is that correct?
I think so. Yeah. Before this is the one that kicks off his Yes. This is the, the, uh, miracle that really set off the Pharisees, right? Mm-hmm. That or the Sadducees. Yes. Mm-hmm. And they were gonna, they were gonna go after to kill him. Now Uhhuh, they're gonna go after Lazarus too. They were gonna go after him.
And that's in 12, um, John 12, where, you know, they're coming after everybody. So they have to kill him because he's gaining too much power. Yes. And people are following him. Mm-hmm. And this last miracle was just too much. Yeah. It's so crazy, isn't it? That's really odd to me. Okay, so this is the crazy part to me, is you're gonna go kill the Messiah who was prophesied in the Bible and they knew the scripture, right?
Like, they, like, they memorized the scripture, they knew the Bible, they knew he was coming, so they had to block their minds that this was not really him or not really care because they didn't wanna give up their power. I don't know. It's, we can't know. I, my guess, you know, you come across people and, you know, we've probably even done it, I, I'm sure I have, where you just wanna stand on whatever it is that you think you're right about.
Hmm. Even though, even though what, what the other person is saying has some validity to it or truth. No. Well, it's become a belief system, right? Mm-hmm. Your belief system ha based on your experiences in your life. Yeah. You know, I, I went through this where I believed some. I believed the news. Yeah, I know. I was a New York Times subscriber.
Yeah. I believed what they said. I read the headlines. I believed it. Yeah. I didn't know they, they just made stuff up Right. Until I saw them actually do it. Right. So I saw a press conference with, um, well, I'm just gonna say it with Trump. This was during COVID. Yeah. And I went the next day to read the coverage.
'cause I was obsessed with what was happening. Right. And it was literally just made up. Oh. But it, it changed my world view on how we see things. How I see things. Well, somebody once told me, and this has stuck with me. I wish it was mine, but it's not, um, that beliefs are ever changing. They're not concrete.
And when you try to make them concrete, that's where you get stuck because they're not, they're not, they're ever changing. If I look at even my beliefs today versus what they were. Yeah. Two months ago. Well, the closer I get to Christ, the more my beliefs change too. Yes. Mm-hmm. I, I do see things differently and, and he is moving us glory to glory meaning, right.
We, we don't get it all the day we get saved. Right. We don't. No, you don't. We get that end dwelling. We get the Holy Spirit, we get our, our new minds or we new creatures in Christ. Mm-hmm. But it takes time to align that spirit and that soul. Mm-hmm. It does. And, and it's, and it continues on. Mm-hmm. It's not something that, okay, I peeled the final layer.
No, I mean, the Bible even talks about how we grow in heaven. You know, we are given Oh, it does. Yeah. We are, we're given different ropes. Yes. We are given different. Mm-hmm. And, and that is as we grow. That's awesome. It's not like we're just, okay, we made it. Yeah. There's so much for us to learn and know. I think when I first was saved, or first really, I mean, I think I was saved for a while, but first when I really started to follow Jesus.
Yeah. Um, it felt like whack-a-mole. It's like, yeah. There was so much wrong with me. Right. It was overwhelming. Yeah. Uh, but now I just, it's a change of how I think about it is like I'm just moving glory to glory. Yeah. I'm moving closer and closer to him. It's not condemnation, it's not that something's wrong with me.
I'm, I'm living the human experience. Right. Where I'm making mistakes. Yeah. Where I'm learning. I just listened to, um, the country singer Gel Jelly Roll. Yeah. And he was talking to Brandon Lake and there was some interview going on and he said it so like Jesus. Mm-hmm. He's like, I'm just here to bridge the gap between people and Jesus.
Mm-hmm. And I'm not gonna focus on, I know. I don't know everything. Like he was so humble. Mm-hmm. And. That that is Jesus. Like he, he wasn't like, well, you don't know and you didn't go to church on this day, and you didn't go this and you're not, you know. Imperfect people go to church. Imperfect people are the ones that are supposed to seek out Jesus.
I go to church. Yeah. So if you see an imperfection. Yeah, yeah. Ditto. You know, people, they'll, you know, especially on like a podcast, they'll, you know, shred you to bits and pieces and say, oh, you're Christian, you did well, I'm still growing too. Mm-hmm. I'm still growing and I am imperfect. My life is imperfect and that's the beauty.
I'm okay with it. Yes you can. You can go ahead and shred it 'cause that's okay. And this is our journey. And I think that's even part of this problem or part of my problem and not seeing God in those moments. Yeah. Is we kind of get attached to a worldly view of this journey and what that means. Right. And what that means in this blip of time.
Right. And God's kingdom plan, his eternity plan is so much bigger. So much bigger. And I think. I've wrapped my head around like, the things that we are doing today, we may not even see the fruit of Right. We may not see the most beautiful fruit of, and I think that's kind of cool too. Right. Before that was a more worldly mindset that bothered me.
Like, I wanna see, like I wanna see this transaction completed. Yeah. But it's kind of beautiful. Like, I don't know, maybe one person who gets saved today that we speak with changes the lives four generations down. Yes. Like, we just don't know. Right. Yeah. I've thought of, um, Abraham multiple times. Mm. And him, you know, not being here to see all the nations and I thought, wow.
He didn't see it. He didn't see it, but he lived father, he lived in that promise and was excited by that promise. Yeah. He was, he was excited by that promise. And I think it was a different time where honor, respect, and family meant so much more than it does today. Well, it meant something. It did it, it doesn't Now your word was bond.
Yeah. Right. Alls you had to say is your word. This is what I believe. And it was, yes. Mm-hmm. And, and we don't live in that world anymore. No. And then, yeah. When, when we don't live in that world, but we want the fruit of that world. Mm-hmm. Good word. It's not, it's not feasible. No. If you want to mirror, if you want to have the strength of a bodybuilder, then you need to build your body.
Yeah. If, if you want the, um, um. To be able to breathe and, and do like a, a runner, you need to run, you need to exercise your lungs. Mm-hmm. You need to expand them. You can't, you can't be an honorable person without honor and honoring, you can't be a person of integrity without having integrity. You, you have to have those things.
If, if I say I'm gonna be here at 12, then I don't come at 1215. Well, and maybe all of the audio and video set up by 1215. Yeah, I mean, it would be great. I mean, that's what you do, right? Yeah. So we're moving Glory to glory. We haven't got that, you know, dialed in yet. No, we haven't. That's okay. I, I'm okay with that.
I am too. I, I'm okay with that. See, those things don't bug me. No. You know, Tyler and I talk about this a lot, this black and white thinking, and I have a really hard time with that black and white thinking, like there's no move, there's no move for nuance. And I think that's what religion is. Yes. That's what, that's, I have a hard time with that.
Yeah. That, and that's what kept me from Jesus for so long, was that it was this, and I was a black and white thinker. I, I mean, I was pretty. It's either this way or no way. And I was very, I was not, I was not flexible in that. Well I'm not about my tacos like it's gonna be this way. Yeah. But, but you know what I mean?
'cause we were thinking like on some things that really drives me nuts. The word religion gets a bad rap because religion is used in the Bible. But I think it's a bad word in the way it's used in some ways. Mm-hmm. But it still is real. Like there is Christianity that is a religion. Yeah. I'm okay with that.
Right. But the rules of religion that supersede love are the problem. Well 'cause love is supposed to supersede all of that. Right. But I think people get, myself included. Yeah. Where we want things a certain way or we wanna control them or we want order. Mm-hmm. And these new rules start to supersede love.
Yes, they do. In the church. Yes. Or in our homes. 'cause we forget that. Sometimes what it took me, I don't know, a week to get to it, may have taken you a month or vice versa. Mm-hmm. And you know, I may have come to, to receive my salvation at 39 and my brother seven years later. But Gary, Gary's life is his life.
Mm-hmm. And I don't have, share the same experience. I, we've talked about this before. Here we are having this, but we're having two different experiences. Even it's, even though it's the same thing. Mm-hmm. Because you have your walk, I have mine and so, Hmm. For us to. Condemn others or even be mad at God because it's not happening.
How, or the way we think it should really is a disservice to us because it's, it's limiting, it's, it's limiting our thinking. It's limiting our beliefs and it's, it's not coming from a place of love. It's not loving, it is not, no. It's us wanting to control mm-hmm. The situation or the world or that person and, and it's not like it's for their, you know, we wouldn't want.
Bad on anyone. No. We want good for them. We want them to live a life the full abundant life God had planned for them. Yes. Um, but I think about how before I believed how I might have received that. Right? Yeah. I know. How might I have received that? It felt controlling. It felt controlling. But you know, I look at, um, having children, sometimes you have to allow them mm-hmm.
To fail. I, for lack of better words, like you have to allow them to fall because then they know how to pick themselves up or they know how to stop from falling. You know? So I, I, I, so I, I often stopped my kids from experience thing, experiencing things. 'cause I didn't want them to get hurt. Yes. I didn't want them to Oh no.
Instead of allowing them, I mean, you know, again, we go back to, let's go back to page one of the Bible in Genesis and Jesus, or excuse me, um, God allowed. Eve to eat. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Of the fruit. He didn't control her. He did not. And he knew, I mean, look at the outcome of that. Yeah. And so, and it's, and I'm sure he is not sitting there.
Just you. He wasn't, he didn't, this is the part that I love about that is, um, that, that I saw recently that I loved is he clothed them. He set a boundary, said, okay, I'm holy. You can't be here. Yeah. But he clothed them. Yeah. And, and put them on the way he gave them what they're needed and get put them out.
His presence. He didn't scold them. No, he didn't. And you know, so often we do, we scold. Yeah. And 'cause we again, are putting limitations and expectations. Mm-hmm. Instead of coming at it from a place of love. These people should be like this, this person should do this and you should all these shoulds again.
It's the should. Right. It's the absolutes. And I think that's the part where we just get so wrapped up in this world, in this timeline. Yeah. That we're not like a Okay, God, your picture. Right. Your picture. Yeah. And if it takes 20 years, it takes 20 years, what are they going to accumulate in that time? Well, and it will all be used and sometimes people don't get there.
Mm-hmm. And that's, that's fair. And when I say we have to be okay with that, I don't mean like we have to be like, okay, well Johnny didn't make it. I don't mean it like that. We have to be like, well, that, that is the choice that they made. Mm-hmm. And I have to honor that. Just like God honors our choice. Yes.
Whether we choose him or not. Right. And that is the hard part when it's somebody you love. Yes. Very much so. Yes. Because there is solace when, when people are saved. So my father-in-law just died. Yes. And he was saved, you know? Praise God. Yeah. Praise God. Mm-hmm. But I think of. You know, I didn't know for sure we have three confirmations.
Mm-hmm. That he, that yes. You know, three confirmations that he, he was saved and that gives me, 'cause he didn't live that life. Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Um, it gives me such solace and my husband. Yeah. Like the comfort. Yeah, for sure. Because really did everyone behave like we want them to? Did I behave like everyone wanted me to my whole life?
No. No. What really matters? No. That they're saved, right? Yeah. I want people to have an abundant life 'cause Christ offers that. Yeah. But what's really important? What's really important. Mm-hmm. What's really important. Mm-hmm. The importance is to be an eternity with him. Mm-hmm. There. Right. That's the importance.
And I'm not saying let's wait till the end. No, I am not, that is not what I'm saying. I'm saying, um. You know, we come to God, people come to God because of our love. Right. Not because of our condemnation. Not 'cause we're controlling them. No. Not because we're telling you. Beating you over the head saying You're messing up.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Quit smoking cigarettes. It's so bad for you. Really. You're gonna die. You're gonna die. You know all those things. It's doesn't Exactly. It's the love. It is. That's when when I received healing, it was because a woman gave me a hug. Mm. It was because a friend brought me to a church for healing.
It's because the pastor had taken the time the night before I'd gotten there to get into prayer. Amen. And that is the love that I never experienced. That's the kind of love that was shown to a stranger. That's the kinda love that changes lives. Yeah. That changed your life. Changed my life. Did it change your children's life?
Changed my children's lives. They are not anything. And I wonder what generations down look like because you. Believed Right? Because you said yes. Right. And because, and that's what matters. And because others took the time to show me the love and didn't have expectations upon me. Mm-hmm. And just had open arms.
Here you go. Here you go. And they didn't, I, I turned around and walked away. I didn't go back to that church for a little while. I, I didn't, I, so it's not like I, I was rejecting them, but I didn't also embrace, you know, I was seeking and trying to find, and, and you know, I go back to my, um, the testimony that we did on that other podcast.
I was 19 years old. Mm-hmm. When I first saw the love of God. Really like that I can recall. Mm-hmm. I'm sure he was functioning and operating. And as I say that, I'm being corrected. Thank you, holy Spirit. But that's was one of the massive moments for me. Mm-hmm. And, um, I didn't know then that I wasn't going to heaven.
I had no idea. Mm-hmm. It took from 19 to 39 before I really turned and said, okay, Jesus, you are my Lord and Savior. You are you. I I give my life to you because you gave your life for me. Mm-hmm. Like, I, he knew that. And if I would've put limitations on that as a, as somebody who was praying for me, I would've given up.
I mean, 30 years. Right. 20 years. 20 years. Yes. I, I'm not good at math, so just so you know, and I think there's somebody in my family who was saved Uhhuh and, um, I was part of, and I was probably the most unlikely candidate in my family, full of Christians. Yeah. And I, I, I'm probably one of the late comers compared to everyone else.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it was really upsetting to some people because they had been with this person trying to get this done, like it was a task. Oh. For so long. Right. And um, I think what you just said brought to mind why it happened. I didn't have any expectations. I just loved these people. Yeah. And saw they were hurting.
Yeah. And I showed up. Yep. And
if I'm being honest, I didn't even know it was a possibility that they would be saved that day. Mm. Pretty. I didn't even, I was like, there was an opening and we took it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And, um, I think when you're close to somebody, 'cause there were other very close Christians in this family. Mm. There's an expectation.
Right. There's a like, come on, like, I see you're hurting. Come on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, um, I can see why that happened now. Yeah. It's just taking the time. Mm-hmm. It's showing the, I mean. Christ was loving. When you look in John 11, and this is famous, you know, it's, it's a two word sentence. Jesus wept. He knew that, um, he was going to raise Lazarus from, from debt, from death and bring him back to life.
He knew it 'cause he talked about how it was gonna glorify God. However, he still took the time to be with Lazarus's, loves loved ones. Mm-hmm. To love on them. 'cause they were mourning and they were, they were in suffering. And he mourned with them. He didn't come on. I am the savior. I am, I am Jesus. And I have the capability of raising 'em from the dead.
Wake up, you idiot. Like I've heard people that have spoken like that. Mm-hmm. So harshly. Mm-hmm. Like, they should know better and you should, you know, and it's like stop, just stop. Hug on them and love on them and bring Christ to them with your words, with your heart. Yes. With your embrace, with whatever that you can.
I do love that, that I heard a pastor once say that this is the most, um, recognized or easiest memorized scripture. Jesus wept. Yes. Mm-hmm. And I do really love it. 'cause as we were reading and studying this over and over, and apparently it was showing up in my life 6,000 times, mine too, that, you know, my father-in-law, like I said a few minutes ago, just recently died.
And my husband's preparing the eulogy and it's, it was really hard for the family to decide who to do, who could do it because they were worried they wouldn't be able to get through it. Right. And I'm like, it's okay. It's okay. It's okay if you can't get through it. It's okay if you cry. Yeah. Even Jesus wept.
Yeah. Jesus wept when he knew. That he was gonna raise this man from the dead. He wept with Martha and Mary. Yeah. Because he was so compassionate in their pain, right. That it, he wept. Yeah. It's okay to cry, right? It's okay to have that emotion. It is, it's okay to go through it. Right? And so often that is the problem is we wanna be strong and and withhold emotion so we can get through something.
For what? For what? For what? Why That we, so that we wanna go through it with the people. Like, okay, so I, if I see my husband up here speaking this Eula, Janie cries. We're crying with him. Yeah, totally. This is sad. Death isn't normal. Like No, it wasn't what God, it wasn't his plan. It was not part of the plan.
No. It's okay to be sad when somebody dies. Yeah. That was, it's, it's not funny. I, forgive me, for lack of better words, but my husband, when his mom passed away in 2022, the family was unable to speak at her celebration of life. And so they had asked Scott or Scott somehow had offered, I don't know. He, he did it.
And there was such a mighty grace upon him in that moment, and he, he was saying to me like, Lisa, did I look so bad? How did I do? And I'm like, oh, I was so impressed. I was like, oh my gosh. It. I mean, he spoke the word, he spoke about his mother. He introduced like, he, he did the whole service and there was such a grace.
Mm-hmm. Because he just did it out. He was like, okay, I'm just, I'll do it. I can do it. And, and he did, and he did cry at one point, but nobody looked at him and thought, get it together, Scott, get it together. That's what, that's what I was thinking. What is, what is somebody in a, I would be more honestly. And I don't wanna be judgey, but I would be Yeah.
If somebody went up there and was a robot. Yeah. I'm like, do you have any feelings? Yeah. Or you might need to start dealing with this. Right. How are you? Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. There were, I would be a lot of thoughts, like, something's not right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. If somebody didn't show some kind of emotion, if their father died Yeah.
I would, I would be, it's okay. It's emotion isn't bad and in fact we're, we're made to have emotion and sometimes I think God had it. I think the church gets, gets a little funky about it. Um, because we're not supposed to elevate our emotion above the word. Right. But that doesn't mean that we are to lack it or mm-hmm.
Or not experience it now. And I think, I don't wanna say mastering our emotions, but being in touch with our emotions. 'cause they're indicators. Yeah. It's important. Mm-hmm. But like you said, we don't exalt them. No. Above the word no. Or exalt our experiences over the word. Yeah. Because the word is truth.
Right? Right. The word is truth. You know, I just, my, my friend, she has a son, uh, much younger than than mine. And so one of the dynamics of our friendship is she would ask me on Raising Cooper, um, you know, this is where my son is at, where's your son? And, and, and, and how did you handle this? And so I've kind of helped her through these things.
And, and her son was experiencing, um, uh, he was in a baseball game and he was pitching and he was not, he was having a hard time. Mm-hmm. And mentally he was saying some pretty yucky things to himself. Hmm. And so I said, I go, well, um. Proverbs 1821 came to my mind and it was, um, life or death, or death and life were in the power of the tongue and, and you'll eat of its fruit.
Um, but I was like, let's look up the TPT version because her, her son's much younger and I think he might be able to digest that better. And I said, try to help him see that although he has these emotions, 'cause he, he feels this pressure that he has to do so well, that pressure is not the word, the word.
Be still and know. Mm-hmm. The word is choose joy. The word. What does the word say about him? What are the I ams, I am a child of God. I am love, I am loved. You know, those are the things that, that, that are reflective of the Lord. And just because he's having these emotions help him to know. Mm-hmm. It's okay to have these, but know that the word goes against it.
Mm-hmm. And you don't have to, you don't have to go down this road. That's right. That power, love, sound mind. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that's what I, that's where I see these things and I'm like. Emotions are normal. They're natural. Mm-hmm. It's okay, but what does the word say? What does the word say about this situation?
Well, God knew. We'd worry. Yeah. He knew we'd have fear. He wouldn't have so many scriptures telling us how to not do it. Yeah. That to not lay it down at his feet, to not give it to him. Right. He would not tell us to cast our cares. Yeah. He knew this would be a struggle for us. Right. He knew we would have peer, so he told us who we were.
Yeah. That we are love, power, and we have a sound mind. Mm-hmm. So that we could rest in that. Mm-hmm. We could rest in his word when. Sometimes it happens that this last week my mind wasn't sound a few times. Yeah. Right after I did the whole Power Love Sound Mind podcast. It is so funny how we'll do a podcast and then I get to live through where I thought I had victory.
Yeah. Isn't that great? It's so fun. Yeah. So fun. We just did one on our marriage. Yeah. On our marriages and you know, just how perfect our marriages are and what Yeah. You know, Uhhuh, we're equally yoked and it's all good. And we got this all together. Yeah. And it's been a tough week in my marriage. Yeah. Do know.
And it was the, what's funny is the challenges were similar. It is funny, but it's not, it really wasn't. I mean, it's funny now we laugh about it. It's, but it was, it was, yeah. My husband just was not behaving like he needs to, well, Scott, I mean, you know, he doesn't, he always doesn't behave like he's supposed to.
Yeah. And uh, there's that. And so there is a frustration of. Uh, you know, I really want a lot of grace when I'm not moving Glory to glory. Yeah. You know, when I'm stuck in a rat hole, Uhhuh trying to figure out how to dig myself out. Yeah. Um, without God. Yeah. Like I want a lot of grace for that. Right. But I'm not willing sometimes to give it to my husband and the same thing until I realize what's happening.
Right. I'm like, oh shoot, he needs a minute. Right. You know, he's a human. He's imperfect. Yeah. He's he's going through the passing of his father. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And sometimes this is what my friend Lisa tells me, and I, I don't know if we're just gonna say this every podcast 'cause it's so good, but it's your analogy when you're throwing the baseball.
Yep. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Could you tell that again? 'cause it's so good. So yeah. So I learned this actually from. My dear friend. Um, so when he was helping me with my son and coach in baseball, um, there is a fundamental way to throw so that it relieves stress on the elbow and, and so that you don't injure yourself.
And, um, but if you don't practice that and practice that and practice that, obviously you, you have the potential as they get older and bigger, their muscles get bigger and it, and it puts stress. Mm-hmm. On here, on shoulders anyways, when a person gets tired, they go back to what they used to know or what they knew before, the way they're throwing that ball, the way they were throwing that ball, and, you know, which creates it sloppy, which creates those Tommy John syndrome or, uh, surgeries.
Oh, and it's sloppy. Mm-hmm. And, and then they remove the, uh, tendons from your leg and put 'em up here. Anyways, there's all sorts of stuff that they do, but, um. That's why it's so important to have my son continue to throw. And, and so like, even when you get tired, this is ingrained in you and then you know what to do because when you get tired, you're just gonna go back to what works.
You're gonna sla you're gonna do what, you know, what's comfortable, what is the mo Because you're not gonna wanna, you're not gonna wanna stretch yourself. You're not gonna, most people don't. Mm-hmm. That's what happens. It's like, oh, you know what? I just read this awesome book. I'm gonna be so organized.
I'm gonna go through, I'm gonna organize everything and I'm gonna be so organized. And then when you're tired and you're stressed, then you start throwing things around and you're no longer organized. Mm-hmm. You have to, you have to really work at it to get, to create it, to make it, um, to make it a habit, to make it part of your life.
Mm-hmm. And so this just happened where my husband, I felt. Was walking in victory of something that was kind of a big problem in our marriage. Yeah. And this week we were kind of, maybe the last couple months we've been back at that place, but I really saw it because he's high stressed. Yeah. And then that brought out the fear in me.
Yeah. Of, okay, here we go again. Mm-hmm. Here we are. I can't do this. God. Yeah. I can't do this. I, I, you know what, I'm, I really got to the point, and I even told you I can't do this. Yeah. I, I give, I give up. I am not, I give up. Mm-hmm. And, um, you said a word to me that has been irritating me since that day. As Jesus says, your life is not your own.
Right. I. And what am I living for? Right. That's what made me think of the whole time is, okay, my life is not my own. I do wanna live for Jesus. Yeah. I do. I do want his kingdom as big as possible. Right. With as many people as possible. Yeah. I do want to be his love here on earth. Yeah. But am I if I'm giving up Right.
If I'm tired. Right. Right. If I'm not willing to stand in his word, if I'm willing to get sloppy and do my old thing too, 'cause I'm ready to run. Yeah. That's my old thing. Mm-hmm. I'll run. Mm-hmm. Well, because I want, I want, I want. Mm-hmm. It's that self and, you know, no pun intended here. Mm-hmm. It's, it's that self-absorption that we have.
It's all about me. Yeah. I want. A house like this. I want a life like this. I want to drive. Yes. I want to look a certain way that I don't, I want, you know, I want to be tall and slender. Not a hobbit. I am not. I wanna be tiny like you. I wanna be tall, I wanna be like a giraffe. I wanna have tiny, curly hair like you.
I want these things. But you know, you get into these I wants. And what did Jesus want? What did Jesus do? He, he paid the price for every one of my sins and yours equally on the cross. That every one of those lashings that he took were for everything that I've done. Everything that you have done. And that He bought me.
Yes, he bought me. And when I said, I make you my Lord and Savior, I give you my life. And sometimes I forget that. Sometimes I forget that too. Tell my friend my, reminded me that that's what, um. That's what I did too. I, I, I was like, oh, thanks Dan Moeller. Thanks for that, that YouTube video that told me that my life wasn't my own.
And we know that. Right? I know it. Mm-hmm. But when you hear it, when you're in the middle of being a self-absorbed brat about, I want what I want, and I know that sounds really horrible and it's not gonna come across well because my husband's fa dad just died. Right. But it's weird how all this stuff kind of comes up during that time.
It does. Mm-hmm. And, you know, there's no excuse. I didn't handle any of it. Right. You know? Well, um, that's okay. I didn't either. But again, I'm that imperfect person. Yeah. Who praise God. I have a patient understanding husband who has forgiven me. And you, you recognize those things. You're not. Um, you're coachable.
You're not uncorrectable, you're, you're, I mean, and that's, that is the followers of Jesus. That's the way we're supposed to be. Mm-hmm. Because that Holy Spirit is there to correct us, and he uses our loved ones. Iron sharpens iron. You can't sharpen me if I'm not willing to yield to the knife that you have coming out of your mouth.
Those words that might be cutting my ego that I don't want cut, that's what happened. We've both done it. It's great. And frankly, I did not wanna hear it. Yeah. I wanted, I wanted my ride or die girl to say, yeah, get him. I wanted to say that, but that came out. That came out. I wanted to say, but the truth came out.
But I was like, oh, but that's because that's what the Lord was telling me too. Yeah. He's so good. He's great. I feel like, I mean, there's just, I don't think it's a coincidence. We went through a similar thing at a similar time. Yeah. You know, and you were steps ahead of me. Not really. Well, it felt like it, I was just sitting in it, you know, we've talked about this before, is sitting in the uncomfortable.
Mm-hmm. My friend, just recently, um, a friend since I was in seventh or eighth, sixth grade, I'm sorry. Um, she, her, her stepmom passed away. Mm-hmm. And she had called me and she's like, Lisa, this feels so uncomfortable. I go, I know, I know, honey. You just gotta sit in it. Yeah, I know it does. And so often we try to, I don't wanna feel this, I don't wanna feel this, I don't wanna experience this.
We try to run from that and it's not possible. And Jesus didn't even do it. No, he wept. He wept. He didn't run from it. He sat with them in it. Yeah, he stayed. He didn't try and make it all better. He sat with them for a minute and wept. No, I mean he did make it better. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. But he didn't say, he didn't say, you know what, dentally, you should stop thinking the way you think.
No. And you should stop doing this and you should, you know what? Go to church two more times. Mm-hmm. And repent. Say, and Hail Mary's 'cause Because you didn't believe me. Mm-hmm. You had unbelief and that's why No, no. In fact he came through. Yeah. 'cause they didn't, I mean, they were, they had belief, but it wasn't even in the thing.
Right. Their belief was, oh, the resurrection, you'll come and yes, he will raise from the dead again, just like the rest of us. Yep. That's good. Good word. Jesus. That's good. Thanks. Glad I heard that. Now my brother's, my brother, find dead solace because like we said about earlier, about my father-in-law, there's solace in that.
Right? Right. Mm-hmm. Like, okay, God, here you are. You're showing up. You're right. That is good. That's good enough, right? But he showed up with something better. Yeah, he sure did. Because they all continued to follow him. Mm-hmm. And they all continued to. Okay. Because sometimes how many times have you had it happen where you aren't, where you're like, is this the right way?
Really? Am I really supposed to be doing this? Lord, is this what you want? Well, just this week in my marriage when we had a little tension Yeah. I'm like, that's what I'm thinking. I go, you can't want this for me. This can't be right. Right. This can't be right. This can't be right. Backspace, backspace, delete, delete.
Yeah. Yeah. It was, it is. Right. Uh, this is my path. Yeah. And you know, people, you know, when you're married for 30 years, there's peaks and valleys and there's hard times and there's, you know, yeah. You know, we need to be there for each other and I should have been for there for him in a better way. For sure.
Mm-hmm. Um, but God does have something better for me. And I, I do believe that. Um. He's already shown me that in my marriage. So it's kind of weird as women, how we just want everything to get better and better and better and better and better. And I already have so much better than what I prayed for. Yeah.
Already. I am gonna challenge you. I'm gonna challenge you on something though. Hmm. You used the should word. So you said I should have been there for him better. I should have done this better. I'm mad at myself. Yeah. Well, that's where I would say is that the grace of of God is that the grace of Jesus, to change the word should to could I could have done things better.
Oh, I like that. Because if you could have, then when something shows up again and it will, oh, you can do it differently. That's how it works. Right. But when you should on that and say, I should have done that, there's that guilt that comes with it. Mm-hmm. And it doesn't mean that you can't have correction.
I do have guilt for sure. Well, he took guilt on the cross. He did. So that is something that you gotta say. No, I don't receive that. Mm-hmm. I receive the correction and I receive the love and I will do better. Period. I hear you. I hear those words. I know they're true. Yeah. Um, I think it even makes it worse that he's so gracious.
Yeah. My husband. Totally. Well he's showing you the love of God. Yeah, he is. Yeah. And so receive it. Yeah. When you have guilt, you reject that. So I think this is something that Christians go through, even with the love of Jesus. Like I just heard Billy Gramm say this, the closer you get to Jesus to Christ, the less you feel you deserve him.
Yeah. But that doesn't mean we walk in that. It's like that. This is what my husband and I, we went for a walk yesterday and we're going, this is like a glass half empty, half full thing. Mm-hmm. Okay? Mm-hmm. So you feel like you don't deserve it. So the half full people are like, yes, thank you, God. Yeah. Uhhuh.
And the half empty people are like, yeah, I don't deserve this. This can't be real. Right. I'm not, I can't walk in this. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And I think that's, that's what we see in the church. Totally. Or even in this house sometimes. Yeah, for sure. And where does Jesus want us walking? Yeah. Excited about our gift.
Excited about the gift, which brings me back to the, uh, Brandon Lake Jelly roll conversation. Where Bridge the gap. Yeah. Bridge the gap. Mm-hmm. And, and through that, just say, you know, I am broken even in saying I should feel guilt and, you know, because I know I'm not good enough. Mm-hmm. Bridge that gap. Yes.
And bring Jesus to that. Amen. Bring him to that. Yes. And say, yeah, I don't deserve him, but I am blessed. I have the good news. I've received it. And that is how we remove the guilt. Yes. Right there to it's, it's what we believe. Right. Do we believe that this was the best gift on earth? Right. And rest in that Yeah.
Period. Yeah. And it, you know, depending upon how you grew up, where you grew up, what you had. I say this, it's not some Oh yeah. You just walk like this. It's so easy. No, no. It's a repetition. It's a working and a revelation. Yes. It a deeper revelation. And a deeper revelation. Yes. I, I will say, I've known that Jesus died for me since I was in junior high.
Oh, wow. I've known that. Mm. That's awesome. I, well, I did not walk in it. I, I, um, yeah, I have, I have a pretty checkered past. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't do that anymore. Right, right. I I, I am following him now. Mm-hmm. That's the difference I believed, but I wasn't following him. Mm-hmm. I didn't know how to, yeah.
Mm-hmm. And I, you know, I didn't have a parent parents who raised us to do that. Right. But even though I had this belief system, I did not have this deep revelation. Right. Yeah. Okay. Of what he saved me from. Yeah. That's where mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I didn't have this deep revelation of what my redemption meant and what that, and I think even just in this conversation, I got another revelation when you said that about the guilt.
I'm like, oh, yes, that is true. I do believe that. Like, it kind of seems like this cycle in Christianity for me. Yeah. Like, I'll hear it, I'll kind of understand it, like Right, right. And then I. And then after you hear it so many times, it, it becomes deeper and deeper. Well, that's the difference between the theology and the revelation.
Yes. Right. Many people are like, I've read the Bible. Okay, great. Yeah. What does it mean to you? But what does it mean to you? Yes. Yeah. Do I mean, do you look at it like those words are for you? Mm-hmm. Those words are spoken to you about you or that you are that, that the Lord wants you to hear about. You know, first and second kings, he wants you to hear and understand what was going on.
He wants you to know the story of Joshua. He wants you, you know? Do you understand that? I do. Now. I didn't before. Right. And so that's the difference between theology and revelation. Good word. And Jesus is wanting revelation because Yes. When we realize that changes things, that changes. That changes. Your heart.
Revelation changes your heart revelation changes your heart. Yeah. I can read these words, right? Yeah. But they are meaningless if they haven't changed me. So even just reading this chapter that I was like, I just didn't feel it when you suggested it. Yeah. It is interesting going through what has happened to my father-in-law and my husband and my marriage, how many times I've pulled this out.
I know, I know. From building faith to Jesus, wept to God hasn't abandoned us. Right. It's his timing. Yeah. Is there anything else we're missing when Hall Hope is gone? Yeah, there was a lot in there. The one that most recent for, for me was, um, uh, 11, six through 16. And this is when, um, Jesus is like, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll go in in two days.
And, you know, and it was the following for me because sometimes, you know, in the one podcast with me and my husband. I was talking about how to be a good submissive wife and all the things, which it's a good practice. It's, and we're really called to do that. I just really thought I had to mastered until this week.
Me do. I thought I was doing so good. And then, um, and then we had the things that happened and I was like, I was like, wh um, anyways, so Scott and I had had, uh, an issue that came about and I had gotten so upset and I was just really mad. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. I'm done. I am done. Good thing you did, we did not get ahold of each other.
We would've totally done and Louis it. I was like, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. And then, um, I called my friend, I said, this is why you don't let your emotions lead you. Yeah. This is exactly why. Yep. Because I was emotional about it. Yep. And then when I got ahold of my friend and she's like, Lisa, I feel like the Lord's really working in Scott and in you both.
And I was like, Ooh. Yeah. And she goes, I, I think you just need to rest. And I go, oh yeah. And it just really resonated. Oh, that is so good. That would've irritated me. Oh no. It would've normally irritated me, but that's what the Lord wanted me to hear. And so I heard that. Then I like, oh, okay. So I leave and, and I'm all in this great mood.
And then he shows me, Lisa, you are not following. You are trying to lead again. And, and he refers me back to John 11, six. And so I was like, Scott, let's have a conversation. Can we talk? And he's like, yeah, he's always a good sport, you know? So he sits down with me and I, you know, I'm apologetic. And I said, okay, so you know how we were at our son's game last night and we leave the school and he's going through this neighborhood, and I'm like.
Seriously, where are you going? This is so annoying. Like why? Where are you going, dude? Like, can we just, I wanna get home. It's been cold and there's this street over here and this street over here, and I know I am a really good backseat driver. I know the best way. Yeah, I did too. So I grabbed my phone and I'm like, okay, I don't know where we're at, so I'm gonna put in our address.
So I put in our address and it starts leading us through this road or through this little neighborhood, and we come out to this road that's over here and I'm like, oh, I didn't, I didn't know we were gonna go to this road. And he's like, well, I did. That's where I was wanting to go. I go, oh, okay. Okay. So as the leader of the house, he was getting something from the Lord that I wasn't getting, but I am again fighting him on something.
Because I think this way or this way is the best. And this way coming to this road was actually much better. We were able to avoid a lot of traffic. A lot of traffic. And he got us right there. And I was like, oh geez. Thanks Lord. You know? And that's what the disciples were saying, Lord, you can't go back to Judea.
Oh, you're gonna get stoned. Why are you doing that? He's like, well, there's 12 hours, you know, of light during the day and there's darkness and you know, we, we remain in the light. Let's remain in the light. I'm paraphrasing, but that's essentially what he's saying. He's got a job to finish. He's got a job to finish.
We're gonna go do it. He knows the he knows the road. Yeah. And everybody's going, uh, Lord, where are you going? What's going? This ain't happening. This isn't the way we want it. Yeah. It's not the way we want it. I like that other road. Yeah. And look at where they ended up. Mm-hmm. I'm glad Jesus was driving that day.
Amen. And I'm glad Scott was driving because I mean, we, we would have nothing to talk about. No. On here. We'd probably be doing celebrity gossip. I, I know. How funny is this? So we're just gonna expose all of our garbage for people to rip on us. You're welcome. Yeah, you're welcome. But you can see what a flawed individual I am.
Ditto. I just hope my family doesn't watch this one. Yeah. Yeah. My family won't. And it's right if they do, Scott already knows. He already knows. Yeah. I'm not really a surprise to anyone. Yeah. So it's, that is funny how we think that, um, we're hiding our stuff. Right. Right. Or our issues. Mm-hmm. And, you know, as Dave's writing this eulogy and we're talking about ourselves and our lives and what we want for our future and how we would wanna be described.
Mm-hmm. Or how we wouldn't be described. Yeah. And it is interesting the things you'd want maybe to not come up. Oh gosh. I, I've thought, you know, having, doing these podcasts, I'm like, you know, my past is beyond checkered. Yeah. And, you know, people that knew me even 10 years ago, I'm not the same. Mm-hmm. I'm totally different.
And most people that probably would've known me 20 or even 30 years ago would be like, I cannot believe this is the same person. Um, I would say same. Would you? Oh, yeah. I don't know. Um, for sure. Really. For sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Um, I would probably be the least likeliest to be talking on camera about Jesus.
Ditto. Yeah. Because I was, 'cause I did not live a life that, that was a harlet reflected him. Yes. I was, I was a harlet. I was too. Was I, I just wanted to be loved. Yeah. I did too. And I didn't know how to get love. No. So I tried every way possible except the way Yeah. Right. The way that, um, real love is found.
The, the love that satisfies Jesus. Yeah. And I, I didn't know, you know what, and that is the deeper revelation of the, the word that I kept thinking of Yeah. Is love. Yeah. And I remember asking him, it was 2016 Hmm. And asking him to explain to me what love was. 'cause I had an employee who I was talking on, on the phone with my son.
Mm-hmm. And I, I don't remember how the conversation went. And I got off the phone and she goes, have you thought about just loving him through this? And I thought, I am loving him. I'm telling him what to do. What's your version of love lady? Yeah, yeah. Listen, Karen. Yeah. I dunno what? And, and she, I go, well, what do you mean?
And she goes, well, maybe just not judge him, but walk through it with him. Yeah. And then that really fired me up. I'm like, no, it didn't occur to me because he is doing something wrong and I'm gonna correct it. Okay. Yeah. And, but then interesting story. Um, hi Laura, if you're watching, and then interesting story.
I heard her on the phone with her kid. Yeah. And it was just a normal conversation like you might have with a friend. Right. 'cause these are adult, these were adults. Yeah. Uhhuh. And my son was an adult at this time too. And that's how old I am. And, and I, I heard that he was gonna do something that I would've flipped out about.
Oh. And I heard how she handled it 'cause it was speakerphone 'cause we're in the same office. Yeah. And she's like, oh, you know, she goes, do you want feedback on that? And he said, no, I don't. I said, she goes, okay, well, um, I gotta go back to work. I love you. Yeah. And I was like, wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And um, it really made me look and see that I didn't really understand what love meant.
Right. So I prayed for God to show me. Yeah. That's good. And he did. Yeah. Like he showed me what to love my children without judgment look like Right. How to, how to be a parent to an adult. Right. And I'm not saying I got it right, but I, I do it so different. Yeah. I'm sure. And it is this revelation that keeps coming.
Mm-hmm. And you know, it just doesn't seem like it's that big a word. Right. Love's patient. Love is kind. Love does a self serving. It isn't not record keeping. It's so big and it isn't. These things that. I, when you ask him for something like this, he will show you. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. He will show you. And I, I would say it happened over years of like this big revelation.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. And, and it, I couldn't have handled it all at once. No. But he showed me how to love myself even Yeah. And, and care enough about myself that I mattered. Right. That's good. You know, I, I've heard, um, before from a very wise woman who's counseled me for years, and she has talked about when my son becomes an adult and he is an adult, and that's one of the things that she has said.
And so I, the, um, do you want my opinion on that? Mm-hmm. And I have started practicing that when he was about 16 because I wanted to make sure, I mean, I still give him my opinion on things. Mm-hmm. I mean, let's, I'm. I'm me. Yes, but, but I'm not going, you not when it comes to his stuff. Right. Unless he asks for it and your kids follow God.
So this is super easy, right? Yes. Part of it is, you know, guiding, right? Yes. We're training them, we're guiding them. Yes. To hear from God. And when I say, son, do you, do you wanna know my opinion on that? He'll say, yeah, mom. Or he'll say, no, not right now. And I go, mm-hmm. Okay. Really? I wasn't really expecting that.
Um, because I can help you outta this hole you're in, but okay. You just go ahead and keep scratching at the walls. See if you can get out. Well, it's good for them to figure out, have a soft place to land when they're still at home with you. Yes. Mm-hmm. You know, and I don't know that I did that for my children and, you know, they had to, um, fall out in the world first.
In some ways. And so I don't recommend that. Like, let's, that's a little bit more tough. Yeah. You and I both have experienced that falling out on, on the, in the world. That's tougher. And so I didn't want them to experience it. So I did. My parents had one extreme. I did the other extreme. Yes. I understand that.
That is never, that's never, extremes are never good. No they're not. Yeah. You wanna find the balance and you wanna do things. Mm-hmm. Jesus's way. Yeah. And I never saw Jesus going up to people. And starting arguments or fights. I didn't see that. I don't read that in the Bible. I do know that he disagreed with people.
I know people, you know. I know he flipped a table. I know he got mad. I I know that. Right. But that was one instance. I don't think it was directed at one person. It wasn't, it wasn't to humiliate somebody. It was to, to stand up for his father's home. Right. Yeah. Total different, total different situation.
Although I have used that scripture to manipulate in the past. Have you? Of my anger. Oh yeah. Well I read a whole book on it. Yeah. Angry like Jesus. I had a whole justification for it. Yeah. But I, I misunderstood it. Really? Yeah. I've never read that book. Never even heard about it. Don't read it. Okay. Don't read it.
Okay. Alright. I think there's righteous anger, right? Yeah. I, there is, there's righteous anger. Mm-hmm. But, um, I think it's a place, you gotta be careful 'cause it's not where God wants us. He wants us to have that joy, that peace, that love. Yeah. That. That we can set in and have a life worth living so that maybe other people would want it.
Right. Like, who wants to be around somebody who's angry or fearful all the time? Right. I don't, nobody, nobody. No, I don't wanna be condemned. I don't wanna be told how wrong I, you know, I don't, no. I want, I know the life that I led. I know that God is still shedding so much of that. Mm-hmm. He there, if he would've shed all my layers Yes.
At one time, I, you know. Wow. I think it'd kill you. It, I, I, I actually do too. I do too. 'cause I think of when he was correcting me at first it was really hard. Yeah. Because I wasn't used to having discipline or being corrected. Right. Mm-hmm. Um, I didn't, you know, grow up where that was a, a normal thing. Yeah.
I kind of was on my own. Yeah. And so I made my own choices. Yeah. And so it was really hard for me to submit and surrender and yield and be corrected. Yeah. Now I like it. Yeah. Like, it irritates me at first, I'm not gonna lie, like. And I told you when you said that, I don't really like that. 'cause it did resonate with me.
Yeah. And I knew what it meant. Yeah. That I was wrong. Yeah. Resonated with me too. Yeah. I didn't like it either. And, but I love the correction because now my life can be better. Yeah. Now I can get back on that plan that God had for me rather than ese plan. Yeah. Which I have to tell you, every time I take control and take the reins, it it is like going off a cliff.
Yeah. It's like okay. And he chases me down every time. Thank you, God. I know. Okay, so I wanna talk about one more time. Mm-hmm. The waiting room. Okay. This is the toughest part. Yeah. This is when we're waiting on God. This is when Martha and Mary are sitting at home waiting for Jesus to show up. Okay. Well I'm in the middle of waiting so this is really gonna hurt.
It's gonna itch, it's gonna poke. Yes. Okay. Let's do it. The dating room.
Is where we can get tripped up. I think it's where we can get lost and forget who God is. Yes. Or we can hold and remember who God is. Yeah. And trust that okay, this could take years. Right. So if it's gonna take years, this is, oh, I love this last podcast we did with Pastor Dan. Mm-hmm. And I asked him, what if, what if you're never, if you never get married, what if God doesn't give you that life?
Yeah. What? Yeah. I mean, he knows better 'cause he's seen. Right. He's had a vision. Um, but we lay it down. Yeah. Right, right. And what does laying it down mean? What does laying it down mean? Mm-hmm. Like it's that Abraham moment. Mm-hmm. Like where, okay, God, my son is yours. Right. And how do you live happy?
Because I have to tell you, my son was having a hard time. At a certain point in my life and I couldn't be happy and I didn't wanna be right. And I'm like, no, God, I'm not gonna be happy while my son is struggling. Hmm. I'm not doing it. It doesn't make sense. I don't even, I don't even, I remember Pastor Mark was talking about the fruits of the spirit being joy and hope, love, joy, peace, patience.
Yeah. And I'm like, no, no. I am, I refuse to live in that. I refuse to live in that one. My son's in pain. Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't want to like, as a mother, it feels wrong. Like, feels wrong to hear that the emotion feels wrong. The emotion. I was exalting above God's word. Right. 'cause it feels wrong. Yeah. But this is what God told me.
He goes, Hey, you want your son healed? Yeah. Yeah. Um, how are you gonna do that? Defeated, rolled up in a ball on the floor. Right. You gotta rise up, girl. Yeah. You gotta be. Who I created you to be so that he can, so he has somewhere to come back to. Right. So he has someone to talk to. Yeah. Because who, how, how is somebody defeated and rolled up on the floor can help anyone.
Right. You can't. So what's your choice in the waiting room? Right. It's your choice. Do you gonna roll up on the floor or are you gonna rise up? Right. Yeah. There's, those are only two choices. I, I just spoke to a friend, um, the other day who's, um, whose daughters were diagnosed years ago with something. And um, but I have seen that although they were diagnosed with a disease and, and I'm not gonna speak it out, but they were diagnosed with something, um, they have overcome.
Mm. And they have overcome mountains. And I am in the midst of waiting. And I have been waiting and I have been waiting. A long time for what I'm currently waiting for. And so I was in that moment of I'm, I'm having a hard time. I'm having a hard time. And she professed to me that she was in the midst of waiting for healing for her daughters.
Mm. Specifically one of them, because they were having a hard time and she has to live on the word. She has to, she doesn't have a choice. That's what she has to have her hope in. And that's what I have to have my hope in. I was like, oh my gosh, here I am boen about this thing or that thing. And, but you're right.
It's still the same principle. I have to deescalate my feeling and elevate. The truth. The word. Yeah. And the truth. And stand firmly on that no matter what it is. Whether it's my emotional, healing, spiritual, financial, um, physical, it doesn't matter what the healing is, what what it is, whatever it is I'm going through.
And, and same for them. Um, she's standing on the word and she's doing it. So she's like, Nope. I just, no, no, Lord, your word says this. I have to stand on it. So you're gonna be a victim or a victor. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You're gonna be a victim rolled up on the floor. 'cause this isn't fair. Right. Because it's not Right.
Right. It's not right. Nobody wants to deal with that kind of stuff. Yeah. They don't. But, but I don't even know how God could give you what you needed down there. How could you even receive it? Hmm. You can't, I mean, I don't think you can, like mentally No. No, you can't. And, and part of that whole promise is that we receive it.
Right. Right. Uh, mark 1123. Do you remember it? Mm-hmm. For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, be removed and be cast into the sea, and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. Therefore, I say to you, whatever things you ask, when you pray, believe that you receive them and you will have them.
So you believe that you receive and it will be yours. Yeah. But it doesn't give you a timeframe. It doesn't. I would really like that. That like a six. So much better. Is it like minutes? It would be so much better. More. Can you gimme that? But then that, that eliminates faith and Yeah. There's a beauty in that building of the faith, isn't it?
Mm-hmm. And that is ha that is part of that whole glorified part of John. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. He came. Did the miracle of, or is that a miracle? Okay, I'm gonna call I'd, I'd say it's a healing. Okay. Miracles in, in my opinion, the, the miracles uhhuh. Um, like, uh, my friend Rebecca Holbrooke has said, um, the difference between a miracle and, and a healing a miracle is the party of the Red Sea.
Okay. Um, it's turning water into wine. Okay. Versus Okay. A human. But, but some people think a miracle is, I got healed from cancer, or it sounds miraculous in our world, right? It does. So, but it's just being healed. But, you know, I'm not gonna Yeah. Whatever your miracle is. Great. Well, we will say the healing or slash miracle of raising.
I, I think it's raising somebody from the dead. It's accurate. Yeah. I'm gonna qualify that one. Yeah. Um, and it's the first time recorded, right? Yes. Okay. So we have this miracle where I. Or healing Uhhuh. I mean, I think it's a miracle. Seriously? 'cause he was raised from the dead. Yeah. I'm gone with that.
Right. Okay. Correct me if you want in the comments. Okay. Yeah. Um, they're gonna anyways, they will. I trust them. Yeah. I trust them to do that. Yeah. And especially when I don't know something. Yeah, that's good. And, and I don't want to give out bad information. No. If I don't think it's like, this isn't doctrine.
No. But, um, he doesn't show up for the three days, the four days, so that God could be glorified. So we know it's God, right? Yes. Okay. Mm-hmm. So we're on the fourth day getting glorified and building faith. Right. All along the way. Mm-hmm. Can you imagine the amount of faith that felt, I mean it's sometimes some of it's a story to us.
Yeah. Right. Because we weren't there. Could you imagine being there and the decaying, I don't know if you've ever been around somebody that died. Yes. But there is. An odor, there is a smell that you cannot forget. Yeah, I know. And there's that fourth day where this is happening. Yeah.
And then he's risen from the dead. Yeah. What kind of faith does that build? Yeah. What kind of faith does that build? And those must have been three agonizing days because they have Jesus. Mm-hmm. Who has come and healed people. Yeah. And they know he can do it. Right. And he didn't show up. Right. And he didn't show up, but so they had faith that he would, so I would, I would counter that also and be like, how?
How would it be? As they're like, come on, Jesus, come on. And he's like, no, not yet. I'd be like, oh, do you not love me? Oh, I would totally be there. That's where I would go. Yeah. I would totally be there. Which shows my weakness. Right. I I'd be like, do you, are you not hearing me? Well, I mean, that's part of the problem, right?
Yeah. Even in this, in this waiting room. Mm-hmm. Those are the questions we ask ourselves. Right. What did I do wrong? Was my faith not strong enough? Yeah. Did you not love me? You go through the whole list of, uh, of everything that you think the boxes you should have checked. I believed, did I not receive this in time?
Okay. Let me read this scripture. I was supposed to believe first, then I receive it. Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna practice that. Yeah. And, and I just don't think he's like that. I don't think he is either. I think he has grace for all this and for not getting it perfect. But, you know, I, I've made mistakes walking forward for him.
Mm-hmm. Meaning I thought this is where I was supposed to be. Yeah. Later learning. Okay. I didn't hear quite right. Mm-hmm. And he corrects it and fix it all. He did. Yeah. Because he loves me. He causes our mistakes. Steven prosper. He loves that. I walked forward in faith. Yeah. Because I thought, you know what I mean?
Because I was just learning his voice. Yeah. Still learning his voice. Well, look at how he spoke of David. Mm. David was a man after his own heart. Yeah. And David was a, um, adulting murderer. I do stand on that a lot. Yeah. Because when I think of my past and the closure I get to Christ, I mean, I, I don't, I don't know that I live there anymore.
Yeah. But as some, sometimes in your Christianity, I know that this is kind of normal. There's some pain of your past that is a little humiliating that you feel like you have to earn or overcome. Right. If you've lived a life like mine. Yeah. Totally. Mm-hmm. And I did stand on that a lot. Like David was a man after his own heart.
Right. And he loved David. And David did some crazy stuff, man. Yeah. David did. Yeah, for sure. And, and, and he still was there for him. You know, I mean, I, I think of all the things that I have done mm-hmm. And I don't get it Right. All the, I, I mean, I just got it wrong. I mean, that's what we're talking about, how we've gotten it wrong.
I can feel volumes of podcasts. Really. I know, I know volumes. I'm glad I'm walking this with you. Um, we can sit there and look at all the wrongs that we've done, but Jesus is so gracious and kind. Mm-hmm. There's a difference between grace and mercy. Right. The grace. I mean, grace and mercy both have love.
Right. But, but grace is understanding that we don't get it. Mm-hmm. And that we're not going to get it until we do whatever time that is. Sometimes we don't get it too, and there's grace in that. Yes. That is a good reminder to give grace to others Yeah. Who are not getting it. Yeah. For whatever reason, for whatever reason, you know, I have somebody in my life that's particularly hard for me because there's a principle that I live by.
Right. That they don't live by. Yeah. And I feel like it's beneficial. Yeah. That we all do. Yeah. So we all get along. Right. And I have to live life knowing that this person may never get that. And you have to be okay with it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. When you get it, you can't be like, I get it, but I'm gonna change you.
Yeah. And I'm going to passive aggressively do things to get you to see things my way and then wanna change. Because even if it is right, it becomes not right when we do that. That's not how Jesus did it. No. Oh my goodness. This is a painful one. Okay. That was a message for me, Dito. So the purpose of the delay.
Um, in that waiting room. I have notes on here. That one was to glorify God, right? Yeah. It builds our faith. Yeah. But it also builds intimacy with God because in that waiting room of those years that I was praying for somebody, guess who I got closer to? Yeah. Guess whose voice I heard and understood? Yeah.
God. Totally. And I'm not saying that God's out here doing these horrible things to us so that we'll get closer to him. No. We don't need him until we need him. Yeah. A lot of times we don't lean upon God until we need him. And our in desperation isn't not. That makes me, that makes me sad. It took that for me to see who he was.
Yeah. But I, but I think that happens. I that's people that's, that's, that's people. That's people. I mean, I Even the woman at the, well, even the woman at the well. Even when we got, we got the woman about to get stones cast at her. Yeah. Everybody. Yeah. It, it, it doesn't matter. You, you go through, you go through the Bible.
I mean, look at, um, even look at, look at Abraham taken mm-hmm. Isaac. Yes. Up to the mountain. To the mountain to sacrifice his son. Mm-hmm. He did it. Yeah. He did it in obedience. In obedience. So I think of Peter and how he denied Christ three times. I think of Peter and saying, of course I love you. Yeah. I mean, he got it wrong so much.
Yeah. He's, he's like, I know he think of him often. I do too. I'm like, okay, this, this makes me feel better. Yeah. And he still loved him. And he didn't come back to Peter and start scolding him. No. He just said, Peter, do you love me? Yeah. After all this happened, and he's like, Jesus, you can't go. And he's like, yeah, get behind me, Satan.
I'm, I'm going, this is the road I'm going. Yeah. And then he denies that he knows Jesus. Yeah. Like after he said he would never do that. Right. And the first time I wonder how, how much conviction came, like as soon as, uh, because when I say something that I know goes against the word or goes mm-hmm. You know, I'm like, oh, it's instant.
Mm-hmm. Well, we have the Holy Spirit though. Right? Right. But walking with him Oh yeah. Walking with him. Mm-hmm. You know, um, still have a conscience. You still, he still have a conscience. Mm-hmm. You're right. So I, I don't know. And then he does it again, and then he does it again. And Jesus understood. He did.
He understood. And he still, you know, again, he's on the cross. All these things have happened. And um, here's the soldiers that are down there and he's looking at 'em saying, father, forgive 'em for they know not what they do. Yes. He's not saying, take me out. I. You guys are doing wrong. I'm tapping out. I'm done.
Yeah. No, I'm done. I'm not doing this for you guys. You guys have treated me horribly. You've been awful. You didn't believe that I was the one I told you I am. I told you I am. You didn't believe me. He never once scolded. He just was like so kind, loving and gracious. I, I don't know another word gracious.
Mm-hmm. And he, he wasn't, I mean, I think he did rebuke Peter when he told him to take a different road. Right. He said, get behind me. Satan. Right? Yeah. Um, but rebuking is not, it's, that's not scolding. No, it's not controlling. It's like, no, I'm going here. Yeah. This is what I said. Yeah. And you get behind me or get beside me, my husband, me, you either with me or against me.
I'm like, let's go this road. Mm-hmm. Why are we going this road? He's like, no, we're going this way. Okay. Let me find the directions. Don't get us there. Don't worry. Oh, I do think it's awesome that Peter didn't do that, but I do love, I do love when he came back and he goes, Peter, do you love me? I think your husband's the one that pointed that scripture out to me in some podcast or some conversation.
And he just, he didn't, he didn't beat him up No. For denying him. He said, just, do you love me? Yeah. Do you love me? Yeah. I love that. I love the simplicity in that and the beauty of the mercy and the grace that he knew Peter was gonna do it. Yeah. He said, you're gonna do this. You're gonna dime me th deny me three times and I'm gonna come back and we're gonna be all right.
Yeah. I mean, he didn't say all that. That's just me. Yeah. But, um, creative license, so you can correct me if you want, but Yeah. Do you love me? Have you ever that you love, do you love Oh, I say it all the time to my husband. Yeah. Just 'cause I like to hear it sometimes. Yeah. We say it a lot to each other.
Mm-hmm. Because, what do you mean when you say that? Do you mean it like flippantly or do you mean it like. I usually mean it. Like I'm, this is the weird thing, like, I usually say, do you love me when I'm having an overwhelming feeling for love for him? Okay. And I just wanna know, he's feeling it too. You don't say it when, when I'm trying to manipulate him into doing stuff, like getting a cup of coffee.
Yeah. I say it then too. It's got multiple purposes.
That's good. It just depends. Do you love me because this is empty? Yeah.
I know. I do that, I do that with Scott and the kids. It's funny. Yeah. I think we're funny. I do too funny. I, I, I wanna talk about when the hope is gone. Um, because sometimes we get depleted. Yeah. And we get tired and after 10 years we start to wonder, okay, what. This dream is dead. Let's say it. Let's say it's a business you started or a ministry and you just can't get traction, but you feel called to it or, or like our single pastor, you know, he knows that that woman's coming, but it's not happening.
I mean, at some point when we give up hope, because that's all you have sometimes, right? Mm-hmm. That's just the hope of that Jesus is gonna pull through. Yeah. What happens when that hope is gone?
Well, and this is, this is what I wrote about this. Jesus asks them to roll away the stone. They do it out of obedience, but I don't think they believed he was gonna be alive. Totally. What does that say about obedience in the middle of the pain? What that speaks by following that, by following that obedience.
That's when you get to that, I. Miracle or to that blessing or to that answer or to whatever. Because you're still, even though you say you didn't believe or they didn't believe, they still did because you're showing up, you're rolling that stone away. You're doing what he said to do. Yes. So you're believing he is Lord.
Mm-hmm. You are believing. I don't think they expected Lazarus to be alive. I don't think so either. But he said, do this and they did it nonetheless. Right. In their pain. Yeah. But I wouldn't have expected, um, you put mud in somebody's eyes and they'd be, you know, able to see. Yeah. I wouldn't expect that be, I mean, I don't suggest doing that unless God's leading you to go, here's some mud.
Throw mud pies in people's eyes. I mean, if he's leading you to maybe ask permission, I don't know. But I, I saw this in my frustration last week with me and my husband is, you know, you could quit. Yeah. You could quit on your marriage. Yeah. You could quit. And, and what. What, what if just around that. Right.
Just around that. Just around the river band. Yeah. What if there was the healing that you needed? Yes. And you gave up too soon. 'cause you quit. You lost hope. You quit. Right. 'cause you quit. 'cause you quit. You lost hope. Or that business that you're almost there, you're almost gonna make it. So you get your first paycheck.
Yeah. But you quit too soon. 'cause you lost hope. Which brings us full circle to what you had originally said to hear, um, which was, um, talking about people's character and their word. And, you know, if you chose Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you chose his ways above yours. Mm-hmm. You chose his, his will.
Above yours. And there are people that his will has come to pass and it's been, you know, hasn't been pleasant. You know, we are Americans, you know, we've got first world, world problems, you know, did I get to go shopping today? Right. And I'm not, I'm not, I'm not making fun of, but I'm saying we're blessed. We are blessed society.
Thank you, God. We are very blessed. Praise God. Um, and I do praise God for that. But we don't have what, um, what people have in Africa or mm-hmm. You know, my son went there and, and, and he, it's not the same. What does our word say? What does our word mean? And when we choose Jesus as our Lord and Savior, we choose his ways over our own.
Mm-hmm. And they followed his ways. They did, they rolled away the stone. They followed him to Judea. They did exactly what he said. And, uh, my guess based on what I read and how I read it, interpret and interpreted it is, is that there was some sort of doubt to a, to a certain degree. Mm-hmm. Um, I, and, and in fact, I don't even think they thought that Lazarus was gonna be risen.
I, at this point, I don't think that was an option. I don't think so either. I really don't, and correct me if I'm wrong, I, I mean, yes, but I just don't, I don't think that seemed like it was an option. Mm-hmm. But look, they followed Jesus and it became the way, and it showed up. He, okay, so they believed, right.
This is how he keeps showing up better than we expect him to, and in a different way, right? Mm-hmm. They believed yes, that Lazarus would be resurrected right in the day of resurrection, right? At some point. Mm-hmm. Not. Tomorrow. Right. And Jesus did show up Yeah. And showed up better. Yeah. Than that they could have hoped for.
Right. And I think that's amazing. 'cause their faith is built. They've glorified, he's glorified God. Yeah. They've become closer to God probably through this. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Oh, okay. I see who you are now. Yeah. Are the I am right. I see the, I am in this. Right. But even with all the other things that they had experienced, they still had to experience that.
Mm-hmm. Interesting. They still, at that point weren't believing. And I look at all throughout my life and all the things that he's showed up for Yes. And what he's done. And I know still sometimes I'm like, okay, I'll follow you. Let's go. We'll see what happens. Well, I kind of did that this week 'cause I, I laid down my frustration about the thing.
Yeah. Because it doesn't really matter. No. And I, I do remember that. It is hard when we get tired and stressed and we can fall back into that. And I remembered that I want to be given grace. Yeah. So I'm gonna give grace and I'm gonna learn what real forgiveness looks like. Yeah. And I'm gonna stop record keeping.
Yeah. And all of those things happened after you said your life is not your own. Right? It's not. No. I laid it down for him because I wanted to because of all he has done for me. Well, I think that's why it's so important to have a Yeah. Have a friend or have, I mean, that's why church is important. Um, that's why relationship is so important so that you can have that person where you can be vulnerable, um, and you can be sharpened and you can sharpen.
Mm-hmm. A lot of times people don't have that. I didn't have that right for so long, but I was also blessed that as soon as I did. I was able to be sharpened by these women. Mm-hmm. And, um, and I am today still. And I have, I have, I I'm blessed. You have a lot of people. I have a lot of people, yes. That I You have a big circle.
I do. Yep. I do. And I, I think God wants that. God wants us to have community. Yeah. I am so blessed. My community is much smaller, but I'm comfortable with that. Well, I'm comfortable with small community, but I have so many people that I love that I just That's awesome. It just kind of happened. We do talk about this and uh, another podcast last week, um, about how important it is to do life with other Christians and with each other.
Yeah. Um, so what, please watch that. 'cause I think it was really good. I think so. Are there tombs in your life where you've stopped believing Jesus can still show up? Well, that's when I was. That's where I was at this past week. Yeah. It's, it was, um, yeah, I think I was too, and I thought, did I get it wrong?
God. Okay. This is where, this is where you go back to and verify scripture. What does God want? Yeah. What does God want from us? Okay. Because in our own minds, we can go, okay, this doesn't feel right. This can't be right. Right. This can't be right. So now I gotta go verify in scripture what is right. Right.
What does God want? Mm-hmm. He wants my family healthy and whole. Mm-hmm. He wants me being love. He wants us all growing closer to him. He wants us to be strong so that we can go and do our commission of building and equipping saints disciples. Sharing. Yeah. Sharing the gospel. Sharing the gospel. Sharing the good news.
Yeah. You know what we're doing. Yeah. That's what he wants us to do. Yeah. That's what he did. Mm-hmm. And was I doing that? No. But I was really feeling bad for my feelers. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It sets, I mean, we are of the world. We become so self, I mean, I look at today's, what is going on in today, and it's all about how I, I feel like I'm a, this my, my truth or my Yeah.
My truth. I, I hate that word. I don't, I just hate it. I, I really, there is an objective truth. There is. I don't like that. I, you kind of talked, we talked about it a little bit early on where you were talking about it's your perspective of what's happening and my perspective are different, but there still is a truth.
There's still a table is still black. Yeah. Regardless if you believe that or not. Right. Regardless of you're colorblind or not. Yeah. Table still black. Yeah. You know, Andrew Womack teaches, um, great teachings on fact. Mm-hmm. Versus truth. Mm. He's like, the fact might be that you received a diagnosis of X mm-hmm.
But the truth is, by his stripes, you were healed. Right. I was like, oh, oh, that was a good word. I, I love, Andrew Womack is one of the greatest teachers of our time, so this is what we have to verify all of our feelings against. Yes. So there is an indicator, right. That something was wrong. I'm like, okay, yeah.
I remember this. This isn't right. We don't wanna live here and stay here. But as my husband's wife and helper, I help him. Yeah. I share, yeah. I love him out of this. Yeah. I don't beat him up and control him and manipulate or, and he does the same with you. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think I was doing that. I was just really voicing my opinion.
Yeah. At an inappropriate time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We, yeah. Yeah. We need to, it was inappropriate and we know we need to know our, you know what, God's perfect timing, but we are, we have the Holy Spirit. We don't have to use our timing. No. There's a lot of times where I get things about people or about situations.
Mm-hmm. And I'm like, oh, you know what? I just, you know, and sometimes it's, you just, it's not time to say that. And sometimes it's a word for you. Yeah. So this happened to me recently when we went to lunch with, um, Becky Holbrooke. Mm-hmm. And I got a lot of words for her. Yeah. But they weren't meant to be said.
They were all good in positive. Right. It was for me to understand and to trust that, that we are going down the right path. Right. Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. That's what I believe it was for. Now looking back on it. Yeah. And every I saw you getting flooded. You were getting flooded. IA was overwhelmed. I don't know if she'll talk to me again.
I was such a TI was like, now she loves you. She's great. She's great. Yeah. Is God ever late? Like I don't know that God is ever late. Maybe according to us, maybe Yes. According to us. Is there an area in your life that you think he is late? And I think my recommendation after what I've just been through this week after believing that this chapter wasn't for me is this is what I saw.
God builds intimacy through this time, through this waiting time. Um, he draws us closer to him. Mm-hmm. If we allow it. Yeah. If we want to receive and allow that time to be used wisely. I think of a relative of mine who was in present and he really wisely used his time to draw closer to God. Mm. Yeah.
That's smart. And there was a freedom in being in prison. He experienced freedom in prison Yeah. That he had not experienced outside. Yeah. You know, I was gonna, um, go down. I had an aunt that passed away this week and, um, I was looking forward to the ride 'cause I was gonna take the bus because I, I still have not been able to, um.
Drive 'cause it comes out my eyes too fast. And so anyway, so I was like, I'll just ride the bus and you know what, I'll just be by myself. Hmm. And I'll, I'll read and I get to spend time with God. I was, there was a book that I wanted to read and I was looking forward to that time on a bus just with him.
Mm-hmm. In prison. I'm sure it's awful. Praise God. I've never been. Yes. Um, I've been to a prison. I've seen him. But, um, I would guess that you would have a lot of time. Yes. Well, and how do you wanna use that time? How do you wanna use it? I would want to use it to grow in him. Yeah. What else would you do?
Right. Grow in him, because that's the only place where you could receive total freedom. But it, it is interesting that you could be in a prison. And I think of Paul being in prison too. Yeah. And them singing. It's because they were free. Yeah. They were free. It didn't matter where they were. They were free.
Right. They were free. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And they, and then at one point, when the gates were opened, they didn't even go out of it. They stayed. I totally would've ran. I know. Me too would've took off. I would've been running outta here, man. Oh, that was a sign from God. He wants me to run. Yeah. I would've ran. Yeah.
So I guess what I wanna close with is we wanna trust God. We wanna walk in obedience. 'cause that's where the blessings are. Maybe not for us. Maybe we don't see him. Maybe our kids do. Right. And we trust him with the outcome. We trust him with the timeline and we don't set our expectations on others. Or, or, or God.
I mean, we can set our expectations based on this word, on the word. Mm-hmm. And, but we're okay. Yeah. And I think that is the part that I'm learning in Christianity is it's okay if it doesn't work out the way I thought it was going to. 'cause it is often better than I had dreamed or imagined. Yeah. Often.
Right. But I have to be okay if that's not happening too. Yeah. It, it was like Dan said, who he's okay no matter what God does. 'cause he's laid his life at God's feet. Yeah. Well that's turning your life over to him. Mm-hmm. Um, Abraham is the father of many nations. Yeah. Did he see that come to pass? No. But he was okay with the promise of it.
He was okay with the promise. And we need to be okay with the promise of what we've been given. Yeah. And. Maybe learn more to live with an eternity and kingdom mindset than this earthly mindset. Right? That everything has so much meaning right here. I agree. And live in his meaning. Mm-hmm. In his word.
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