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This is your go-to podcast for all things marketing, branding, and customer experience. We’re bringing you honest and fun conversations with bite-sized insights. Hosted by BrightSign’s CMO Brian Rowley and Head of Integrated Marketing Laura Smith, you’ll hear from industry pros, creatives, and innovators about what’s actually working in today’s evolving, digital-first world. No fluff — just real insights on how brands are connecting with audiences and driving growth. Tune in for fresh ideas, big thinking, and all the tips you need to take your marketing game to the next level.
You're in a creative field and you're not using AI tools right now, you are so far behind. I don't know how the hell you're gonna catch up. Pros and Comms.
Brian Rowley:Welcome to Prose + Comms: Engagement, Unplugged. I'm Brian Rowley.
Laura Smith:And I'm Laura Smith.
Brian Rowley:Laura and I, you know, we have talked a lot about AI from a business and marketing perspective, but today we're actually taking a different approach. We want to look at it through the lens of a creative. And, you know, creative work has always been about ideas and skills, but AI is actually starting to change that and how all of that actually works. And it's making some things faster and easier, but also raising a big question about originality and value. So today we're getting into the real conversations agency creatives are having right now.
Brian Rowley:And we have a really special guest, someone who lives this every day, and it's actually our producer, Joey. Joey, welcome to the show.
Joey Whipp:Hey, I'm happy to be here.
Laura Smith:Joey, Joe, it's so fun to have you on this side with us.
Joey Whipp:It's it's an interesting little, flip. I like it. I like it. I'm I'm glad to be in the, seat here chatting.
Brian Rowley:Let's be honest. He's been wanting to be on this side of it for a while, and we just had
Joey Whipp:to figure out a way to get him in.
Laura Smith:I know. FOMO. Now he's
Joey Whipp:Thanks for accepting my bribe. No. Just kidding.
Laura Smith:Alright, Joey. Let's dive in. Obviously, you're creative and you and I worked together for a million years. And back in the day when we all started working together, I would say AI wasn't even a thing yet. And if it was, it probably wasn't something that was part of anyone's every day.
Laura Smith:It was almost like this thing that's out there that's like, oh, this cool new advancement in technology. Less so for us using it on the agency side at the time. So since then, lots has changed. So tell us a little bit about how your world as a creative, which touches various types of creativity in your day to day role, how you're using it and how you see that kind of taking a lead role as part of you and your team's everyday work.
Joey Whipp:So I can't speak for every creative out there, that should be obvious. But in my experience, like you mentioned, we worked together for a long time. And when I started, an agency life, it was about almost thirteen years ago. Was your traditional kind of creative agency setup. So you had a big you had an executive creative director at the top, you had, associate creative directors under him, and then there was art directors, there was a team of copywriters.
Joey Whipp:And then I was kind of a hybrid role, so I was doing a lot of video work and some audio production, things like that. And so it was, a whole system that everything had to go through and get funneled down through, and, you know, the the junior folks draft ideas up, send it up the ladder, and it's just a constant, you know, cycle. It take it took a long time to come come up with concepts and actually create things, Because that's just the internal struggle there, then you have to show it to the account team, and the account team's got to filter it to the actual client. Nowadays, the agency that I'm at, it's a much smaller, nimbler creative team. And so AI is used quite a bit by me to kind of brainstorm, help me brainstorm ideas, create mock ups really fast, and I guess compete with the bigger agencies out there that still kind of use that model, that have big teams, big budgets.
Joey Whipp:This helps us at at our agency kind of stay competitive.
Brian Rowley:Do you think Joey that as a I mean in most industries, right? It's really taken over and it really is. And I know you're not gonna talk to all the industries that are out there, but it's actually been really like one of those things where you have to adopt it. It's a must. Need to do it.
Brian Rowley:You need to integrate it into your work. I mean, there's task force within organizations that are focused on that. Is that same pressure to pull it into agency life as evident in agencies as it is in other places? Or is there still like that feeling of like, oh, well, you know, hey, there's copyright concerns. There's all these other concerns that come into it.
Brian Rowley:Like, are those outweighing some of the adoption or or is it going fast and furious like it is in all the other places?
Joey Whipp:It is so fast. It is so furious. That's how I feel. If you're in a creative field, gosh, if you're in any field, honestly. But speaking from personal experience, if you're in a creative field and you're not using AI tools right now, you are so far behind.
Joey Whipp:Yeah. I don't know how the hell you're gonna catch up, honestly. When ChatGPT dropped, you know, two or three years ago, whenever it was, I was on it so fast because, you know, budgets have been shrinking and creative teams are shrinking, and so I saw the potential for it right away. You know, I mentioned, you know, years ago copywriters, we had a whole copywriting team, now it's like I can draft copy myself and for and obviously we're gonna we'll get into this later, We're not going to use the outputs that we get from LLMs, like just whatever they give us, we're not going to use it. We're going to, like, put our final touch on.
Joey Whipp:But, you know, headlines, if I need help, I'm trying to draft them up in, you know, Photoshop and things like that, and I have really verbose kind of concepts for headlines, I'll just throw it into ChatGPT and get that really shrunk down to my character limit that I have to use. I was doing that right in the beginning and I saw the potential for it. I might have got off track a little bit. Remind me what your core your question was again?
Brian Rowley:No, just if it's if it's taking that that pace, right, that we're seeing in other industries, like is is that push that's there? Because I will tell you that it's in every meeting that we go to. And I will tell you, even myself and Laura, when we're having conversations with our team,
Laura Smith:we're all using it fast.
Brian Rowley:Did you run that through AI, right? Whatever it is, we use Claude, we use, we've used ChatGPT, but did you run it through Claude just to see what it says, right? I mean, you've heard us talk about the concept of like, we don't start with it, right? We start ourselves and we use it to guide us, but at the same time, there is a big push for it to be used. And I was just curious if you're seeing that same need and push in that agency space.
Joey Whipp:I don't see it as strongly that you guys see it at BrightSign at our agency. It's every once in a while it'll be brought up. I I bring it up with my team, my core team all the time. Mhmm. And I'm hit over the head with it on like X or Twitter, you know, I it's just my feed is littered with it.
Joey Whipp:And so it's also like, I was just in San Francisco. Every billboard says AI in some capacity. So it's it's it's everywhere.
Laura Smith:With that, Joey, like, I feel like it's it's, it's part of everyday life. And I think, like, even thinking about it, your own personal lives, I use it a ton of my personal life, and that's where I do defer to ChatGPT. Just that's where I've started it, and that's kind of where I continue. But I wanna go back to a point of that you made and just because I don't think we have a solution because we don't have a person in a big creative agency sitting here. But I do wonder because to your point, like, the the model's similar as far as structurally, hierarchically, those big agencies have big teams.
Laura Smith:There's lots of, like, everyone has a role, all of that. I'd want like, to my my mind, you know, a smaller agency would be much more inclined to capitalize on AI because it's like, okay, we have to be nimble. We have to move quick. We have we may not have, like, a senior copywriter. We may only have a junior copywriter, and maybe that person just needs more assistance through the process.
Laura Smith:So I feel like in a smaller agency, that seems like it's gonna be an everyday, you know, part of the creative process, part of the writing process, whatever that may be. Bigger agencies, I do wonder I mean, they're obviously using them because you see, like, some of these commercials that are being built using AI, and obviously those are usually bigger agencies. But it's just again, I'm not looking for an answer because I don't think we have it. But it's just it would be interesting to like truly dive into the the differences of how they're used just inherently based on how they're built and staffed. Right?
Joey Whipp:Yeah. I know. As a as a the creative leader, the really, really small creative team, I just feel the pressure for some reason to to implement it and use it. Maybe because, like, I just look back and I just see my department shrinking over time. And so there's, like, this kind of, like, survival mode that kicks in.
Joey Whipp:I'm I'm a I'm a very huge tech nerd. I've always been that way, and so I always am looking and interested in new technologies. So I'm thankful for that. Just a part of my personality. So it's helped me kind of gravitate towards AI.
Joey Whipp:But also, I'm very cynical too, as a person, my personality. And so, like, we'll I'm sure we'll get into it, like, the whole AI slop thing, Like, I see that all the time, and it's a it's it's a struggle with me personally. I I grapple with this constantly. It's like, I can't be a hypocrite because I'm like, this look at this crap that I see constantly. I know kind of why it exists, and then then I put myself I'm like empathetic.
Joey Whipp:So I'm putting myself in the the creative person that chose to do this as shoes, and I'm like, maybe they're in a kind of similar situation like me, where they're gonna get left behind. They have a small team. They have shrinking deadlines, but the differentiation there well, I'm proud, I think, of why I don't fall into the slop category yet is that it's it comes down to taste, having good taste that you can't AI cannot give you that, and I don't think it ever will be able to. And so that's it's a tool at the end of the day, and you guys say this constantly on the show. It is a tool that can get you started.
Joey Whipp:It can get you over a hump, but it can't create good taste. So that is a skill that is learned over time. Takes years, mentors teach you, you you as a creative, you know, just looking at good creative, learning from the masters, the graphic designers of the, you know, sixties, seventies, watching film, like all this kinda sounds pretentious, but this is how you develop taste. Large language models, they don't have taste, they never will. And so, yes, juniors in the field, it's probably really scary for them, and I feel for them, coming out of college and trying to get a job.
Joey Whipp:And these agencies, these companies are like, oh, we don't really need juniors anymore because the seniors just can just use AI to do kind of what maybe they they have done in the past. But if you focus on developing good taste and using the tools that are available, you can you can get somewhere good and, you won't be left behind and you will set yourself apart creatively than the rest because it's you just can't teach it. Excuse me. You you can teach it, but you can't teach it to an LLM.
Brian Rowley:I think the juniors is an interesting conversation, but I I would actually even ask the question of I'm assuming that even from the agency side, you're probably even seeing businesses themselves. Never mind juniors, but the individual businesses themselves taking on more of it, rather than outsourcing it to an agency, right? Like there's a lot of work that we can do ourselves.
Joey Whipp:Was gonna say, I think our relationship, right, we can just be candid about it. We were doing less, in certain regards, we're doing less of those kinds of tasks and things for you guys at BrightSign just because of what you're of alluding to, right?
Brian Rowley:Yeah. 'm sorry. Go ahead, Laura.
Laura Smith:I was gonna say because as as an example this morning, like one of the team members sent me a bunch of imagery used for you know, we're gonna use for a new campaign and it was, you know, some of it's real imagery, then there's like AI creations that she created. And going back to a little bit of that slap, Joey, and this is like, it's taken the team time to get to, you know, certain scenarios and visuals and elements to, like, really trying to tell a story. And so it's not easy work, but that, you know, I had to flag many of them to say, I can this is so fake. Mhmm. Like, this would never you know, I'm seeing too much in this photo that I'm seeing where things are like, look at the person in the background.
Laura Smith:That person is not even fully built out. And again, that's that's not like that's no fault of the team. This is like we're we're trying to do things internally to save on budget and to make sure our teams are being very nimble and, you know, learning themselves. But, you know, going back to it, like, you can see right through some of that. So then it's like we just chopped a bunch of those.
Laura Smith:Okay? Well, then what do we do? Do we have enough imagery for the campaign? And that's kind of the struggle we face as, you know, and we're not artistic professionals. So we're doing the best we can.
Laura Smith:But some cases, can win. In other cases, it's just like we can't fake you can't fake it. So just stop.
Joey Whipp:So any creatives out there, that's my advice to you guys is you heard it right from a potential client situation, you know. Clients kind of taking some of these things in house. They're using, you know, AI to help them. But you can't always get these things done super quickly because there's like an art form that we're all kind of like learning together, creatives and non creatives, like how to like prompt and like how to get what you need and how are you even using the right AI tool? I mean, on a day to day basis, new tools are coming out, new large language models are coming out that can do something better than yesterday.
Joey Whipp:Good. So you could be using AI image generation tool that is already outdated. But I think for for BrightSign, it's interesting because, like, in terms of your creative, like, you guys actually have a really good use case for it because you advertise in so many different vertical sectors, and you don't sometimes aren't afforded the luxury of having, like, assets from your customers, from installations and stuff, and so you're trying to advertise to companies to use BrightSign, but you might not actually have like like a photo of an installation or something or you're you're you're in the travel vertical, and so maybe you don't have those those photos of those installations of the signage and all those things. And so you can can bring that stuff to life and show what it would look like with AI very not easily, but much more easier than just, like, faking it in some way. So I find that interesting how, like, you as a company, BrightSign as a company, has like a really good grounded use case for it, where it's not just like the word slop for slop sake, you know?
Joey Whipp:But not all companies have that luxury.
Brian Rowley:And we spend a ton of time though, to Laura's point, I mean, Laura, no one edits like Laura. I mean, she's got eyes like you've never seen before, as you know.
Joey Whipp:Oh, know. Know. Is this
Laura Smith:a compliment?
Joey Whipp:Wait, is there
Laura Smith:a A Laura
Brian Rowley:not compliment right year. Year like, it's one old. But, gonna but I mean, I think that's the level of focus that people need to have. Like, I mean, hands is the biggest thing. Like I like zoom in on hands instantly in AI models because there's always either missing fingers or too many fingers or whatever the case may be.
Brian Rowley:The fingers always, always.
Joey Whipp:The hands nowadays, right? The hands nowadays is like a dead giveaway that like, they're maybe not using the best tools available. Yeah. Because they a lot of them have figured that figured that out now. So
Brian Rowley:Yeah. But the other thing, Joey, that I would say is, you know, and Laura and I, we just went through this exercise on something that we were working on. And one of the folks that we were talking to had said, you know, well, we've got someone on the team who's really good at AI from a creative perspective. And we immediately like, we were like, okay, that's important. So like when we have this conversation around, like even the junior roles or companies looking for agencies, I think if someone's not utilizing AI and the team's not proficient in AI, I think they'll lose business as a result Because of from a client perspective, I want your time spent in the places where it really matters.
Brian Rowley:And there's no doubt, no one can argue the fact that AI creates efficiency. So hours come down, right? Not spending as much time on this. And that's important to a client. How do we get the most out of the budget that we have?
Brian Rowley:Because you're seeing cutbacks, we see cutbacks. I don't think there's a business out there that's not trying to save money at some space. And this is a way to help you get more for the money that you're spending.
Joey Whipp:The time saving and the cost saving has to is gonna funnel down through the client down into the agency, into the creatives.
Laura Smith:Yeah. The one thing I wanna talk about, because we just have kind of like circled around it a bit, but the tools, right? Like, you're a 100% right. There are so many tools out there. It's overwhelming.
Laura Smith:And so someone like yourself, you're saying you're super into it, you wanna learn, like, you, like, love it. For me, I'm like, okay, like what am I hearing next? And I write them down because people talk about them, and then you're trying to figure out like, when do I use this versus that? But from your perspective, knowing that they change all the time, are there like a subset that like your go tos? And again, not every for what you do, because what you do creatively is different than what other creatives do.
Laura Smith:But
Brian Rowley:Hold on. I gotta get a pen. I gotta take this down. I need to know
Joey Whipp:what tools Joey's All the listeners out there, if you don't hear me in a couple months, it's because they fired me. So
Laura Smith:because we're now podcast producers.
Joey Whipp:This is my greatest fear coming to life, and you're hearing it now. Yeah. There's a there's a there's a lot of tools I use, but I can go over some that I use, like, right now all the time. The first one would be, like so image generation is probably the, like, the most commonly used tool, like, in it from a general sense, when you graduate from, like, a ChatGPT chatbot. Right?
Joey Whipp:Used to everyone's we the whole stoop the Ghibli phase on ChatGPT, like, make me look like Japanese animation, like, that whole phase. Like, everyone got into that. Right now, I think the best image generation model is called Nano Banana Pro. Oh. Crazy name.
Joey Whipp:I didn't make that up.
Laura Smith:Love the name actually. Nano Banana.
Joey Whipp:I know. That's really good. That's Google's
Laura Smith:Okay.
Joey Whipp:Image generation. So Nano Banana Pro, you can you can the easiest way for you to check that out would be through Google Gemini's like studio AI studio. I think it's like if you ask it to generate you an image on there, that's kind of the default model that it's gonna pull. It's But it's really good at retaining likeness, so I could say, let's just for an example, you know, I'm at an agency so we're pitching campaigns and ideas to clients all the time, and so maybe there's a celebrity that we want to have involved. And there's only so much you can communicate with like photoshopping like an image of said celebrity into like a situation that you're trying to like pitch, which was the old way to do it, and it's fine.
Joey Whipp:But now you can literally use something like Nano Banana Pro, which I'll get into a little more detail about. What's really cool about it is you can feed it reference images up to like I know three, you can definitely do three. So I could say for example, here's this image of like some celebrity and then put in another like an object that I want to be in the shot or a location, so now I have these three images and then it's uses natural language, and so you can say take reference image one of Joey, me, I'm the celebrity, right? And put me in this BrightSign office hanging out with Laura, reference image two, and Brian. And it does a really, really, really good job of understanding context with reference images and then retaining the likeness that is in, said references.
Joey Whipp:So it's a really powerful tool for mock ups. Really powerful. So check that out.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. I was gonna say Gemini is the one that we've deferred to for imagery because it's always been better. It's definitely exactly what you said. I think we're finding that it's more realistic, and it it it feels better than some of the other other tools that we've seen.
Laura Smith:I actually think that's what what the team might be using, Brian. A lot of times with Gemini. I think so.
Joey Whipp:Jack GPT is also good because without getting into the super nitty gritty, it's like a multimodal model, and it's just really good at, like, context in terms of what you're describing the image to look at. But I haven't used it in a little while, and for a while it did have, like, this weird all the image generations had like this kind of yellow tint to it. And so it kind of became like this dead dead giveaway that you used ChatGPT to generate the image. So I would it's a good source, but I would I would default to Nano Banana. Another tool, this is, apropos to the show.
Joey Whipp:It's called Suno, and this one is, kinda controversial with a lot of all this is controversial really with creatives, but this one is a music generation platform. I think it was on, like, sixty minutes. There was a whole thing on it because there's actually a little fully AI artists now. I don't know if you guys know this.
Laura Smith:Yes. I've seen this. Like, there's people there's like a woman that's like, this is she's fully AI, And the
Joey Whipp:all the music is generated. Now Yeah. I think that is terrible, if you want my personal opinion. But for different use cases, it's cool. So for the show, I like to have a lot of fun.
Joey Whipp:I'm kind of a silly goose, and so I I use that to make jingles for the show. So for the hot sea and stuff, I will I'll know that who the guest is, I'll know what their name is, and then I'll I'll write the lyrics myself, and I'll feed it into Suno, and I'll say, here's the lyrics, and I want the genre to be this. And every week I try to change the genre, so it's just always kind of a little bit of a surprise, know, it's like just a little bit of fun, you know? So I'm not being super precious about it. It's not like this artistic thing I'm trying to do, it's just to have fun.
Joey Whipp:And so that's been I know you guys have liked those, you've chuckled a little bit.
Brian Rowley:Yeah, they're good. They're really good.
Laura Smith:Well, it's always a surprise. It's we never know what it's going to say and what it's going to sound like.
Joey Whipp:Yeah, yeah. And like, like I said, small creative agency, right? I don't have a whole sound, you know, studio where like someone's, you know, it's not like it's The Real Housewives where they have like custom music for each, franchise and stuff.
Laura Smith:Ryan, so he's saying that we're a little low brow with that product?
Brian Rowley:I was actually I was thinking we're going to a different route of like, what's your favorite, housewives? Maybe
Joey Whipp:a bonus question? Because The Real Housewives of Rhode Island is out. Rhode Island's out. Yes. And it's kind of good.
Joey Whipp:It's kind of good.
Brian Rowley:I haven't seen
Laura Smith:it. I don't watch these shows. Don't even go there.
Joey Whipp:Oh, dang. Okay. I have one more for you guys and it's, it's audio related. The number one text to speech model we use sometimes, it's called Eleven Labs. They're like the leader right now.
Joey Whipp:They the likeness that it can you can basically give it a reference track of somebody and it'll, in like thirty seconds, give you a what they call a one shot representation of the voice. So I can type anything in, and all of a sudden I've got Alec Baldwin reading it. Now there's this gets a little bit like, of course, you wouldn't want to do that because it's an ethical concern, right? But we've talked about like pitching, So let's go back to that example from a creative agency. Say I want to pitch a celebrity to do a voice over for a video.
Joey Whipp:And they're like, really? You want to use that person? So now I can we can write the script, we can edit the video, and we can use make a scratch track from the actual celebrity who we want to do the video voice over, or who's already signed up and we just kinda wanna get it into, a rough cut. And so that's really cool to be able to do.
Laura Smith:That that I'm sure is being used just again harkening back to my like ad agency days, like we would put a lot of pitching around like, put this celebrity in this. And in this day and age, or that day and age, it was we were still doing boards. Right? Like, so this was there was nothing digital. Like, we're carrying boards into a conference room, we're showing it.
Laura Smith:So it was like sketches of people. And then like, you know, and I remember there was like one. It was like, you know, and obviously the client loved the idea, but money came into play. But I think if you then can put like the soundtrack on that, because someone reading it like that person, maybe their energy comes through so much. Or just like you, like, like, I know me, I'm so visual or just like I need to hear and see it.
Brian Rowley:Same.
Laura Smith:You know? So that would be like that's a really good way to sell things in because on paper, I mean, yeah, no one does it on paper anymore. But even in that idea of like, here's a concept. Well, if you could start layering in the voice of that person and getting some of their personality in it, that's gotta be, you know, work wonders for some of that convincing of a client to say, we do need that person.
Joey Whipp:Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's the hardest thing as a creative in an agency is we have all these ideas in our head and it's like we're like, what do you mean you can't picture what I'm saying on this slide? And then you you don't wanna, like, waste all this time, like, actually creating something for the client to be like, ah, no, I don't like it. And so there's always this like, this wrestle that you got to do with like trying to explain the vision without like doing the work to like show it.
Laura Smith:Right.
Joey Whipp:And yeah, it's such a great tool for that to get the client or somebody else who's not you into your head to see your vision.
Brian Rowley:But that's always the hardest thing, right? Like everyone struggles like, I mean, not everyone's creative is the reality of it. And so you have a vision and conveying that and getting that out there. I mean, the abilities, I mean, think about it just even, when we talk about voiceovers, how much time we spend focusing on like, oh, we need them to read the script to be able to tell. And if you could kind of get to a point where you're like, okay, this is along the lines of where we're trying to get to.
Brian Rowley:And then you fill in the talent after, you know what mean? It at least gives the client a better perspective.
Laura Smith:Right. Because Joey, you are always the voiceover. You're always like that temporary voiceover, but you may not be the voice we want. Right. Or any know, that that you're just you read a certain way and some clients and some, you know, people wanna use you in that video just like that same thing.
Laura Smith:But now, you can basically use an example to say this is the style, type, tone, whatever, and it helps us understand where you're going with it.
Joey Whipp:Definitely. Definitely. And like from a I'll just say just from experience, like it can do tone direction and stuff, but it gets a little tricky, like you have to really get in there with the script and put a bracket and then write it like excited, close bracket, and like it's constantly generation, generation, generation, generation, and it starts to veer in like time wasting, so but it can do like the the timbre of someone's voice, and that's probably the first thing a client's looking for, so I do a lot of rough scratch reads for for clients all the time like you mentioned, Laura, but like I'm not always the right fit from the way my voice sounds, you know? So that's what eleven Labs and AI voice cloning is really good at. As long as you communicate that to the client, hey, this is what their voice would sound like, so just try to picture with a little bit more direction that will give them.
Brian Rowley:Joey, that raises actually a really interesting point communication. So, and I would ask this of both of you. How do we feel in general about communicating when we're using AI to our clients? So whether it's agency to client or LoRa even internally, right? We generated this through AI.
Brian Rowley:Do we feel that that's necessary or does it not matter?
Joey Whipp:Do you mean with respect to out facing the world? So say you use it for some sort of digital creation, like a social media post? Are you saying having a little watermark there?
Brian Rowley:Well, just in general, how much do we have to disclose? Right? As to where the thought came from? Because I can tell you, going back to your initial point, my feeling on this is yes, an image and there's a whole concept around rights and restrictions around who owns the AI driven imagery that's created. But do we feel the need to convey like, hey, we got to this point using AI or because we've adopted it and we've we have massaged it so much that doesn't really matter, right?
Brian Rowley:Because we're not just handing you something that came straight from AI, we're involved to try to adjust it a bit. Or do you think you have to disclose everything like this particular piece I used AI for? Is that necessary?
Joey Whipp:I don't think it's necessary. And other creators might be like, that's bullshit. You should. But that's just how I feel. I feel like it kinda don't know.
Joey Whipp:It like feels like it just takes sucks the air out of it. Like takes the magic out of it.
Laura Smith:I almost feel like a year ago, I would expect that more. But now I think we have it's understood that everyone's using it. Because even even writing, right, Brian? Writing, like, we know whether we're writing or even some of our partners and agencies, like, this written content. Like, I have to assume that there is AI used in some form and fashion.
Laura Smith:However, there is like, there's a liability of, if they were if they were to swipe something completely and then there'd be a we're operating, then that to me is, like, then and I'm sure that's that will happen and it can't happen. It's like, who does that fall on? You know? But I'm sure there are contracts with between, you know, groups and parties that like people are signing stuff now to say whose responsibility is it if they were to somebody to come back. And I remember this Joey even, you know, just a few years ago where it was, what's the comfort level of using someone's AI imagery?
Laura Smith:Because some at someone's photograph potentially that, like and then someone improvised on
Joey Whipp:version of it.
Laura Smith:Yes. Yeah. So, like, there's, like, those rights. So, like, there's and I know, Brian, we've had internal conversations with from a legal standpoint, like, where are we comfortable? And there there we know the risks.
Laura Smith:Yeah. And so I think it's it's almost like I'm sure there's more formality around it. I would guess in some organizations and between partners, but we all have to understand or assume that tools are being used in every capacity.
Joey Whipp:Yeah. And it all goes back to what you said, Brian, about getting left behind or one of us brought that up. I I I know I I did a little bit. Like, if we're constantly being precious about that, and we're just gonna get left behind, you know, because everyone everyone else is doing it. I know that and that's kind of not really a good justification or argument to, like, doing that.
Joey Whipp:But I think you just I think defaulting to not sharing that, but always making sure everything you push out, you're you're checking to see, okay, maybe we should have a disclaimer here Mhmm. For whatever reason.
Brian Rowley:But I think I agree with Laura. I think if you're just handing something off, that's a 100% AI driven. Absolutely. You should disclose that a 100%. Right?
Brian Rowley:Because that's not anybody's specific work. But I think if you're using it as a tool, which we should all assume everybody's using it as a tool today. And to your point, if they're not, they're probably not in business anyways, because they've been left behind or in the process of being left behind. I don't think it's necessary. I feel like it's just another tool.
Brian Rowley:I wouldn't say that I use the web to go find or Wikipedia to go find information on something. Right. That was just a tool that I used in order to be able to get that information. So I agree with you guys, but I know it a topic that comes up and Laura, to your point, I mean, we struggle with it just from a legally, what do we have the rights to be able to use and not. And I know we're not alone in that struggle.
Brian Rowley:Well, guys, I think we could talk about this all day. I mean, this is such an interesting topic, Joey. It's great to have you on this side of the table having this conversation with you.
Laura Smith:And you're not even going in the hot seat. You got out
Brian Rowley:Yeah.
Laura Smith:So easy this time.
Brian Rowley:Shocked. We did. We let you we let you off easy for sure.
Joey Whipp:For sure. I'd love to join you guys again sometime for a conversation, and I would hope that time you start with a hot seat question and then end with another one.
Laura Smith:Oh, now look at you.
Joey Whipp:I'll be Like ready
Laura Smith:trying to produce our show? What's happening? Yeah.
Brian Rowley:Getting all brave now that it's all over, Lord. He's going get all brave on us. But, Joey, we appreciate you being here. And for those of you, thanks for listening. And most importantly, if you like what you heard today, be sure to follow us.