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Welcome to the podcast. We call it TWICV. It is our effort to provide a fast-paced, entertaining, and alternative voice to the propaganda and hype flowing out of colleges in America today.
This week in College Viability is a proud affilate of The EdUP Experience podcast network.
Gary D Stocker (00:01.627)
Hi, it's Gary Stocker back with yet another special episode of This Week in College Viability. And for those of you anxious to hear more about college finances, that's not where we're headed today. Our guest, my guest is Shelly Howard, who's the founder of College Ready. And Shelly, I'm sure you talk finances with your clients, but we're talking individual finances, right? Tell us about College Ready.
Shellee Howard (00:25.518)
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Gary, for having me on your show. And for your listeners, I want to make sure that they get massive value from their listening time. So I started college ready actually when my firstborn came home from school and said, Mom, I know exactly where I want to go to college and exactly what I want to do. And I was shocked because I applied to two colleges. I got into both and I changed my major five times and I was happy to get a degree. So
It had come a long way since I had been to college and that was back in 2008. And that young man is now an orthopedic surgeon living the dream that he set for himself so long ago. And I've been helping students now navigate how do you get accepted and find the perfect academic, social and financial fit because all four of my children graduated debt free from college. And so it does tie into finance.
Gary D Stocker (01:25.425)
And you talk about debt free a lot in the conversations you and I've had and some of the media that I see. And you told me a story once that you helped your son, I guess, his orthopedic surgeon now get into Harvard. And you just mentioned debt free. What's the first step that you took when he said he wanted to go Ivy League and subsequently Harvard?
Shellee Howard (01:46.35)
So like every good parent, you're like, I've got this. Don't you worry. And then he left and I panicked. And so the first thing I did is I reached out to his high school counselor and made an appointment. This was going into his freshman year and we sat down and don't get me wrong, I love high school counselors. It's not a bash on them at all. It's just that they have thousands of students where I have 20 students.
It's a lot different. And I just said to my son, tell her what you told me. And he said, very matter factly, I want to be a brain surgeon. I want to go to an Ivy League school. Can you help me? And then she said, why would you waste your time or money being a doctor anymore? They don't make money and insurance stinks. And he looked at me with big eyes. He's like, well, now what, mom? So we.
Gary D Stocker (02:37.008)
Ha
Shellee Howard (02:43.596)
gently excused ourself and I ended up going back to school, college, getting my masters. Then I went back to school again at UC San Diego and I became a certified independent college strategist. And then I started touring 25 colleges a semester. And then I built my son's standout strategy that was bulletproof. It got him a full ride to USC.
presidential scholarship and Harvard matched it. So he applied to 12 schools, got into 11 and seven full ride. And he didn't even have a perfect GPA or a perfect test score.
Shellee Howard (03:26.446)
So that's an important fact as you think about what does it really take to get in and out without debt. Put on your business hats for a moment, parents, and look at college as a business. If you had a business and I came to you and said, hey, I really want to work for you, you're like, great, where's your resume? And you're like, I don't have one. Then guess what? You're getting minimum wage if you get a job.
Gary D Stocker (03:49.489)
Thank
Shellee Howard (03:54.528)
And then candidate number two says, resume is right here and is so amazing. I'm going to make your life so great. And you're going to go, I'm going to pay you every cent I can afford. And college is no different. They're looking for students to come to their university, make it great, graduate, and start advertising because they're a business.
Gary D Stocker (04:18.585)
Yeah. And then you talk about high earning parents and some of the biggest misconceptions they have about financial aid. It's probably not just high earning parents that have those misconceptions. Talk about how those parents, really all parents, avoid missing out on money, scholarships, merit aid they are qualified for.
Shellee Howard (04:38.646)
Yeah, so the problem that we're faced with is social media. And everybody's getting on there and saying, my kid didn't get in and they didn't get any money. And everybody is now thinking that colleges don't give money and that it's so incredibly ridiculous to get into. And there's so much negativity around it. And unfortunately, in my generation,
Nobody talked to us about a return on investment of an education or nobody talked to us about picking a major that actually you'll use. We just pick things that sounded fun and we had a great time and we graduated and then off we went. So really it comes down to getting rid of the mess. And the number one thing that I tell families, Harvard has like billions. I think it's $53 billion right now in endowment.
If they want your child, they're going to pay for your child. Right. If you make 200,000 or less, they'll pay for everything. Okay. But getting in is the hard part. Everybody wants to focus on how I'm going to pay for it. Well, you first have to get in. And if you do it right, they're going to throw money at you. And that is how you do it. So my first did it at Harvard. My second did it at University of Alabama.
Gary D Stocker (05:37.937)
Hahaha.
Shellee Howard (06:04.622)
My third did it at San Francisco State and my fourth paid $27,000 in total for a dual US and European degree in Prague. And so when people say I can't afford it, she had a summer job and she was able to save all of that money and got herself through. it's...
There's a will, there's a way, and I want parents to know last year we had 29 seniors get $10.3 million in scholarships. The money is there. It's just understanding how to get it.
Gary D Stocker (06:39.707)
Yeah.
Gary D Stocker (06:43.198)
And you mentioned a minute ago the standout strategy. And what does it actually look like on an application?
Shellee Howard (06:51.384)
So the first thing that you want to realize is somebody will have the same or better GPA than your child or worse. Somebody will have a better test score, same or worse. So now tell me, why would a college pick your child over another child? That's a standout strategy. Help me understand who is your child, what do they want, and how have they proven it?
So when you think about a standout strategy, it's giving evidence and a story to a university who is comparing you to other students who may be similar or maybe a little bit better at some areas. And so to stand out, you need to do something that the student is really good at.
Right. They need to be unique, not in crazy unique, but in what else have you got? What else are you going to bring? Why would I admit you when I could admit so many other students? And it's making yourself marketable. It is a business.
Gary D Stocker (08:04.089)
Yeah. And you mentioned, know, some of the stuff I've read that you focus a little bit on student athletes and you talk about moms and dads spending lots of money on student athletes. And I've been part of the youth sports culture. I am part of the league baseball for 20 years. Every parent thinks their child is going to be the next major league baseball player or at least get into that full ride college scholarship. And of course, that rarely happens at all. Talk a little bit about.
coaching and how that investment helps or hurts college student athletes.
Shellee Howard (08:37.83)
I just got off the phone call literally right before this podcast. here a young man wants to swim desperately in college. the parents, they're more realistic. So I'm very thankful. He was not all league, and he was not all state. And he was varsity, but that's not a D1 level student.
the child, the young man, he just was having such a hard time understanding and he was a swimmer. So we took his best swim time and then we matched it against his dream school, which is Berkeley. And he visually saw that he doesn't belong in the same pool. And so I try really hard not to make it my opinion, my feeling.
Gary D Stocker (09:25.131)
Interesting.
Shellee Howard (09:32.308)
I am just, let's just talk the facts. Let's just say, here, show me why they would pick you if their least best swimmer got this time and you got two seconds slower. And how do you argue with that? I want to inspire them. I don't want to pull them down. And so I try my best not to be an adult who doesn't believe in them. But I want them to figure it out on their own that at some...
Sometimes at that level, you are just naturally gifted. Sometimes you know by the age of three years old that there are just some kids in that sport that are just going to be set. And I love their determination and the tenacity. So to answer your question, Gary, this is what I encourage students. I played softball for the USA. I played in Hong Kong and China. I was a scholar athlete.
And then when it came to college and they wanted to pick my major and pick my career, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm like, there's no professional softball that's going to pay me any money. And so therefore, why would I let you pick my major in my career? And so I think at some point you do have to make the really hard decision as to what do you want for your child's future?
And if you want them to play, you know, minor league baseball for the next, however many years and share a bedroom forever, like there's sacrifices to be made and there's nothing wrong with the sacrifice as long as you're thinking realistically of what does that really look like? I believe it's three to 6 % depending on your sport. Will you get money?
Gary D Stocker (11:06.245)
Ha
Gary D Stocker (11:27.803)
Yeah. Yeah.
Shellee Howard (11:29.09)
The odds are so stacked against you academically, I would say 75 to 90 % of my students get money. So not so much. So if they do it to get a foot in the door or walk on or have a coach take their application and say, I really need this student. Okay, let's talk about it. But really don't be spending their college funds on their
Gary D Stocker (11:39.121)
just let it be not so much.
Shellee Howard (11:58.476)
you know, three year old soccer professional coach, because they're better off saving that money. And you're laughing because you know somebody's doing
Gary D Stocker (12:07.717)
I am, absolutely. And I will readily admit hard work can make you better at anything. And I worked with college athletes, high school athletes, my own kids when they were that age. And I've come to believe that those high end athletes probably are born coming out of the womb with the hand-eye coordination, the speed, the size, the skill to excel at those higher levels. There are certainly exceptions to that rule, but you made a good point about the swimming time, the pitching time, the batting average. Those are all objective stats.
And if you don't have them, you want to really be careful and you make a good point. You usually get into college, but don't be careful about paying to play, paying to play college. that's that's a risk that many have fascinating story. I thought it's just the talent. How do you determine talent? Right. When you hire somebody, it's one thing. But how do you determine a D1 basketball player from a D2 basketball player? I wish I knew the answer to that, but I don't. I want to kind of change the discussion a little bit and.
You and I have both been around a couple of days, and we know that the best job candidates are good at telling stories. You make the case that the best college applications include storytelling as well. What's your thought process behind that?
Shellee Howard (13:20.814)
So it's really critical. I would say it's right behind GPA and test score if it's test required. Because here's the thing. If all of your classes are pointing to English, Spanish, history, and your child applies as engineering, they are so confused. Can you imagine that admissions reader going, how?
There's nothing to like fill in the blanks. So if a student was able to write a really good story and bridge that gap, it may make a lot of sense. It may be too far fetched. I don't know. have to every case is different. But if a student talks about, you know, when they had massive depression and wanted to hurt themselves,
that story is not going to help them get into college because a college doesn't want the liability of bringing that student on campus. So the story needs to be meant to what are they going to learn about my student? Are they going to learn that their tenacity? Are they going to learn about they're a comedian? Are they going to learn about they're a connector? Are they going to learn about they're a leader?
It's helping kids understand what are their core values, what are their gifts and talents. Now go tell the story so the university has no doubt who the student is.
Gary D Stocker (14:55.695)
Yeah. And so I send you my 17, 18 year old and you're going to help them uncover their story. How do do that?
Shellee Howard (15:05.102)
So the first thing we do is we ask them, I just did this this morning, so Gary, who are you? That's what we ask them. Yeah, because if they look at you with like deer in headlights, there is no essay coming out. They don't have a clue what major what career because they don't even know who they are. Then I asked the parents, mom, who's Gary?
Gary D Stocker (15:14.394)
Interesting.
Shellee Howard (15:31.808)
And, he's such a wonderful dad. he says, and you can see that the teenager getting blushed, right? They're so embarrassed. And then I asked dad and dad's like, he's so lalala. And I go, do you believe him? And he's like, well, yeah. And I'm like, well, then why didn't you tell me any of that? That's why I even think about it. So we have to start by helping the child get to know who they are.
Gary D Stocker (15:52.516)
Interesting.
Shellee Howard (15:59.714)
because they're spending so much time on social media and on the computer that they're looking at everybody's best day and they can't measure up. And so they feel like, yes, I can tell you, but I'm embarrassed to tell you because I'm not Instagram worthy. And so we really have to help them become proud of what they've accomplished. We raise our children to don't brag, don't boast, people don't like it.
Gary D Stocker (16:14.97)
You
Shellee Howard (16:29.004)
And I have to redo all of that and say, you need to brag like your life depends on it and tell me specifically with measurement why you did that and why was that a success? That's the story that a college wants to hear. Right. And so if a student can't verbalize to me his mentor, then we have a lot of work to do.
Gary D Stocker (16:47.384)
Yeah.
Shellee Howard (16:55.618)
The next thing we do is we help them to figure out their gifts and talents, those things that they are naturally gifted at. Maybe they're a soccer player and they can kick with both feet. That's not easy for everyone, right? Maybe they have a photographic memory. They don't have to take notes. They sit there and it just computes. We need to help them to know that's their superpower, because once we can
tie into that, then we can talk what major would show off their superpower, what career would allow them to use their superpower, and how much money will that career make them, right? And ultimately, will a robot be doing that job in four years? So it's not as simple as one would think of, let's just pick some colleges. I had a family last night.
Gary D Stocker (17:42.129)
Good point.
Shellee Howard (17:51.008)
their arising senior and I said to them, go, how can I help you? they go, we just need a college list. And an hour later, they were like, Shelly, we need a lot more than just a college list. Like we're not even close to a college list.
Gary D Stocker (18:06.661)
Interesting. Well, I've got two more questions that I want to ask. And the first one is kind of technical. And there's something called the student aid index. Why should every parent of a teen know what their student aid index is?
Shellee Howard (18:23.598)
So it used to be called something different. So I just want to clarify what a student aid index is, is colleges believe based on your income, your assets, how much you should pay to them for your child to attend. Like I'm trying to take it to the most simplistic level, right? It's a lot more depth than that, but on the highest level,
You can go on any college website. They have to have a SAI calculator legally. You go in there, you answer three to six questions, and it's going to shock you what they believe you should pay. And not one person in 18 years has ever said, yes, I am so excited to pay that. Every parent looks at me and they go, how? How do they expect me to pay that? I can't pay that.
And I say, that's just the starting point. But if you don't make yourself knowledgeable on how to reduce it, that's what you're going to pay. And that means even if they get half a scholarship, how are you going to cover the gap? So we need you before the second semester of the sophomore year, before the first semester of the junior year, we need you
to have a phone call with me so I can help you to understand, don't put any money in your child's name. It gets assessed at 50%. That's an easy no brainer one, right? Don't brag about how much your house is worth. You don't have to even talk about your house on the fast foot. Whoa, people are like blown away at this point because I have most people going, my gosh, now I know why I didn't get any money. So it is...
Gary D Stocker (20:17.339)
Ha
Shellee Howard (20:19.614)
It's like reading tax code, right? We could do our own taxes or we hire a brilliant CPA and everybody is well and fine. And that is the biggest mistake families make is they just assume they don't make or they make too much money. And I was taught very early on, never assume.
Gary D Stocker (20:42.469)
Yeah, yeah. Well, Shelley, let's wrap up. You're a professional mom and you've talked about the four children and their college experience. If there was one wish that you could give for every professional mom out there to know about navigating that college journey with their teenager before their senior year, what would that piece of guidance be?
Shellee Howard (21:04.942)
So I mean, for me, it's very simple. And that is plan, plan, and plan some more because the lack of planning is failure. In this industry, you have got to be on your game. There are so many rules to this game. And so you need to plan for their major, plan for their career, plan for their test scores, their GPA, their community service, their leadership.
If you just bury your head in the sand and hope it all just goes away, you're going to go into debt. And that is what I'm on a mission to stop. And that's why I talk about it. To me, I want everybody talking about it. I want everybody to say, how much am I willing to pay and what is my return on investment? And when that happens, I am going to be the happiest person because my impact has been made.
For those of you parents who are feeling overwhelmed by that statement, I wrote a book called, How to Send Your Student to College Without Losing Your Mind or Your Money. And it was a best seller and it's still on Amazon. And I just published my second best seller, The College Admissions Plan Simplified, because parents were still freaking out. And so I do step one, step two, step three.
My kids told me write it as if I was writing to a third grader. So I really simplified it. Not to the point of stupidity, but to the point of I've got this. So those two things. And then my third suggestion is go to collegereadyplan.info. And as Gary's listener, you will get 30 minutes where I can help your family see if you are college ready.
Gary D Stocker (22:53.777)
Well, Shelly Howard has been my guest on this special episode of This Week in College Viability. And Shelly, you provided the listeners with a different perspective from what they get week in and week out from me. I'm grateful for your time. Thank you very much.
Shellee Howard (23:07.14)
My pleasure and I wish you all the best.
Gary D Stocker (23:09.489)
Thanks, Ty, take care.