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You know that sinking feeling when you wake up with a hangover and think: “I’m never doing this again”? We’ve all been there. But what happens when you follow through? Sonia Kahlon and Kathleen Killen can tell you, because they did it! They went from sisters-in-law, to Sisters in Sobriety.
In this podcast, Sonia and Kathleen invite you into their world, as they navigate the ups and downs of sobriety, explore stories of personal growth and share their journey of wellness and recovery.
Get ready for some real, honest conversations about sobriety, addiction, and everything in between. Episodes will cover topics such as: reaching emotional sobriety, how to make the decision to get sober, adopting a more mindful lifestyle, socializing without alcohol, and much more.
Whether you’re sober-curious, seeking inspiration and self-care through sobriety, or embracing the alcohol-free lifestyle already… Tune in for a weekly dose of vulnerability, mutual support and much needed comic relief. Together, let’s celebrate the transformative power of sisterhood in substance recovery!
Kathleen Killen is a registered psychotherapist (qualifying) and certified coach based in Ontario, Canada. Her practice is centered on relational therapy and she specializes in couples and working with individuals who are navigating their personal relationships.
Having been through many life transitions herself, Kathleen has made it her mission to help others find the support and communication they need in their closest relationships. To find out more about Kathleen’s work, check out her website.
Sonia Kahlon is a recovery coach and former addict. She grappled with high-functioning alcohol use disorder throughout her life, before getting sober in 2016.
Over the last five years, she has appeared on successful sobriety platforms, such as the Story Exchange, the Sobriety Diaries podcast and the Sober Curator, to tell her story of empowerment and addiction recovery, discuss health and midlife sobriety, and share how she is thriving without alcohol.
Your sobriety success story starts today, with Kathleen and Sonia. Just press play!
[00:00:00] Sonia: Welcome to Sisters in Sobriety. Today, helping you off the new year with a [00:01:00] topic we're so excited about, which is planning your best sober year yet. So, we're gonna get goal setting, finding balance, and rewriting those old, tired that hold us back.
[00:01:14] Kathleen: Yes, we're going to be talking about creating a life you love and being intentional with a fresh start the new year gives us. So whether you're brand new to sobriety or years into your journey, this conversation will have something for you.
[00:01:27] Sonia: We will ask some other reflective thought provoking questions to spark ideas and we encourage you guys to think about how you would answer them. So grab a notebook or just settle in and let's get to it. Kathleen, let's start with goal setting. What's one specific goal you're setting for yourself this year and your sobriety?
[00:01:50] Kathleen: So honestly, this year I am really focusing on my physical and mental health and the last few years have really been all about learning and [00:02:00] growing and building my practice, which has been amazing. And I've really reached those goals. Um, but I've noticed lately that I have to prioritize myself in a deeper way.
[00:02:10] Kathleen: So I really want to get healthier and stronger physically and, um, you know, and also and mentally. So losing my dad, uh, a couple of few months ago and dealing with some of my own health stuff has been a real wake up call for me. And you know, sobriety taught me so much about showing up for myself and it feels like, you This is the next step in that journey.
[00:02:34] Kathleen: So making sure I'm taking care of the whole picture that I can be, I can feel my best and keep showing up for other people. how do you make sure your goals are realistic, but still exciting enough to challenge yourself?
[00:02:47] Sonia: Yeah, I think being realistic is so important. And for me, that means setting one goal at a time. And even if that goal is really small, um, and so I break it up also into like short [00:03:00] term and longterm goals, but they should all kind of be small for me to be able to get to them. So, okay, every year, I think you know this.
[00:03:06] Sonia: I'm like, going to more is always my new year's resolution it's too vague, right?
[00:03:14] Kathleen: Yeah,
[00:03:15] Sonia: and I know like the goal is yeah, I want to be able to like touch my toes But I think I really need to have a plan. So actually, since we were thinking about doing this episode, I have a plan now, which is so I'm going to do three specific stretches and am, to turn the TV on until I've done these stretches or if I turn the TV on, I gotta be doing these stretches.
[00:03:37] Sonia: So sort of how I'm going to get it done to tie it to that. So I know when I hit the power button I'm going to Netflix, these stretches need to be done. And did the I'm and I'm ready to go.
[00:03:52] Kathleen: that's so good. Yeah. I think that's, that's the piece too, right? Is like, okay, what specifically are you going to do? How are you going to [00:04:00] do it? You're using some nice habit stacking there. You're like a habit stacking of watching TV. And so you're going to add that to it. Um, and for myself with my health and wellness journey, that seems pretty broad and big, but.
[00:04:13] Kathleen: But I have signed up for a course, um, looking at my metabolic health. and then also I've just signed up for three sessions with a personal trainer, not to have ongoing personal training, but I want a plan where I can measure where I'm starting from and that will where I want to get to.
[00:04:30] Kathleen: So that is to help me set my goals.
[00:04:35] Sonia: I love that. Yeah.
[00:04:37] Kathleen: Yeah.
[00:04:37] Sonia: sometimes you do have to invest right in these
[00:04:40] Kathleen: Mm hmm.
[00:04:40] Sonia: And that can also be like frustrating too. You're like, where am I going to find the money for a personal
[00:04:45] Kathleen: For sure.
[00:04:46] Sonia: Yeah. So, okay. I've set so many goals in the past that haven't worked out. What, what are some that you've set and that you've learned from them not working out?
[00:04:55] Kathleen: Weight loss. Like that is, yeah, I mean that's a whole other [00:05:00] topic and that has, that had been so interesting when I think back because you know, in my twenties when I was hot as shit, like so hot, that was still my goal. What? Seriously? Like.
[00:05:16] Sonia: Yeah.
[00:05:18] Kathleen: you know, it's taken a long time for me to learn from that, but I have, and I really used to focus on the number of the scale.
[00:05:25] Kathleen: And honestly, that just backfired on me. I would deprive myself, deprive myself, and then swing the other direction, like lots of restriction and then lots of binging. And, you know, chasing a number just feels empty. I didn't have a deeper why behind it. And And if I did, the why was pretty shallow actually.
[00:05:45] Kathleen: And so what I've realized is the more I care about my strength, my physical strength, my mental strength and longevity. Now, I really just want to feel good in my body to know that I'm takingcare of it in a way that supports [00:06:00] me like short term and long term. So it's not about shrinking myself. It's actually about building myself up physically and mentally.
[00:06:07] Kathleen: And that shift in mindset and focus has really made a difference. you said you, you have your goal for stretching. Um, how do you plan to measure your progress
[00:06:19] Sonia: Yeah, what are the KPIs, right?
[00:06:22] Kathleen: API? Mm hmm.
[00:06:24] Sonia: And so that's actually it. for me, right, I'm a little too KPI. like on the quantifiable goals. So I think this year, shockingly, I am going to measure progress on how my body feels. And so, yeah, it's new to me. So I'm not going to look at Oh, that, my muscles coming in and my tricep.
[00:06:43] Sonia: Um, I'm really going to look at, you know, how it feels. And so, Yeah, one actually one example is like I noticed when I was doing I do Pilates and when I'm doing it, like my back's hurting a little bit, like,
[00:06:57] Kathleen: Mm
[00:06:57] Sonia: I was talking to my boyfriend and he [00:07:00] was like, you know, you, your posture is terrible. And it is my posture is terrible.
[00:07:03] Sonia: I
[00:07:04] Kathleen: hmm.
[00:07:04] Sonia: And it was I think you should just work on your postures you can do a thin back brace and it's like yeah That's important rather than doing 45 minutes of Pilates, right?
[00:07:13] Kathleen: Hey,
[00:07:14] Sonia: it feels good when I'm doing it if something doesn't feel good, it's not right, right?
[00:07:19] Sonia: And so yeah, I'm just gonna focus and I and you know, I've done this with relationships even too, right? It's like something doesn't feel right, but I'll just keep going and Think that, Oh, I'm just going to keep going, keep going. Let's look at the other indicators of success. Right.
[00:07:34] Kathleen: not for sure.
[00:07:36] Sonia: yeah, like, how does this person make me feel right now, especially when you're thinking about relationships.
[00:07:41] Sonia: And so that is. That's my plan this year. I, the thing is it's a little vague, but maybe as time goes on, I will find ways to measure, how I'm feeling, maybe there's like a mental component or maybe. Yeah. So maybe I'll Think about how it a little bit more [00:08:00] specific.
[00:08:00] Kathleen: Mm hmm.
[00:08:02] Sonia: So that is, that is my plan this year, but speaking of systems, do you break down a big daunting goal into a smaller one with a little more manageable
[00:08:13] Kathleen: So I am very intentional about goal setting, and I wasn't always definitely not most of my life. I would say I've only become really focused and intentional about goal setting probably in the last five years, five or six years, and I actually have I'm holding it up. So you won't be able to see it if you're listening.
[00:08:34] Kathleen: But I have this planner that I Got off of Amazon
[00:08:38] Sonia: That's really pretty, wow.
[00:08:39] Kathleen: yeah, I do one every year and in it I set my goals for my year and it also has like an amazing section for your dreams or like, and it kind of splits it up by areas of your life. So I set my goals for the year, my big goals, and then I break it down to [00:09:00] Quarterly goals.
[00:09:01] Kathleen: And it sort of helps you do that. It walks you through like, okay, so if this is your goal, what do you need to do to get there? And then it helps you do the steps. And so I break those yearly goals into quarterly goals. And then from there, every month, I look, I kind of reassess my big goals, my quarterly goals.
[00:09:18] Kathleen: And I'm like, okay, what do I need to do on a monthly basis? And then I also set weekly goals. So like I am But I want to say it seems like a big heavy lift, but it's not like I get so excited. I've already purchased my book for 2025. I use it. I like review everything on Sunday nights. I look at my week ahead.
[00:09:39] Kathleen: Um, at the end of the month, I review like the month that has just passed the month ahead. I actually really credit that. This book and this habit that I now have, this practice, the system of really helping me achieve what I've achieved in the last few years. And so I adjust when needed, like things will come [00:10:00] up and happen in your life and then you just adjust.
[00:10:01] Kathleen: And did I meet all of my goals that I set for the year? I did. I didn't, but I also know why I didn't. I also know what had to be pushed aside to do something else, but I also did reach many of my goals. And I think like it's just a mindset shift. It really keeps me focused and I love, I love doing it.
[00:10:23] Sonia: I love thatyou love doing it because I think sometimes when we get those books at the beginning of the year, like we look at them and we're just like, Oh my God. And it gives us this dread, Oh, I haven't done this or I haven't done that. But yeah, I think making it enjoyable is like a really big deal.
[00:10:39] Kathleen: I love it.
[00:10:40] Kathleen: So what's your favorite way to celebrate those small wins along the way?
[00:10:44] Sonia: Yeah, I, I love celebrating small things and I'm pretty easy. So making a themed meal or mocktails and popcorn in bed. And so buying yourself something cute, especially with sobriety, when youhow much you're [00:11:00] not to buy. Something that gives you some pleasure with that money.
[00:11:05] Sonia: And so, yeah, I I think it's so important to celebrate small stuff. Like this is dumb, but my boyfriend, I'm not saying that now. Um, we had sushi for the first time together yesterday. And so we went that place,
[00:11:20] Kathleen: Oh, the best restaurant. So good.
[00:11:23] Sonia: But we got takeout and before we were in this like kitchen store and I was like, Oh, let's get chopsticks and little, like soy sauce bowls.
[00:11:31] Sonia: Cause we're having sushi for the first time. And so, yeah, I mean, what was it like 10 bucks, 11 bucks. And then we have like a memory And so it's important to celebrate. Small things and, and also to reward yourself.
[00:11:44] Sonia: Right. So that wasn't necessarily a reward situation, but reward yourself.
[00:11:48] Kathleen: So what have you learned in the past about goal setting?
[00:11:52]
[00:11:54] Sonia: So every year for honestly, as long as I can remember, probably in my twenties, [00:12:00] my goal was to moderate my drinking and healthy, but again, without a real plan. And so I think I assume that if my goal was just to be healthier, then it would just happen. Right. And I didn't realize that you really need a shift, but that's only one part of it.
[00:12:18] Sonia: So you're faced with a million decisions right throughout the day that shape your habits. And so what's being healthier? Right. Working out. That takes a plan. healthy meals. That takes a plan. Taking the stairs instead of the elevator. less of a plan. Right. And more of like, an instantaneous decision. Uh, ordering, the healthier meal at a restaurant. of a, instant, you know, decision. And so, A basic, basically, a week or two into each year, I would just be, frustrated and overwhelmed. I'd you Take in the stairs a couple of I would have ordered the healthier meal at a restaurant and then you know, [00:13:00] do a couple of yoga classes. And I think that because I expected to feel healthier right away, I would just get frustrated that, you know, wait, now I have to all these other to feel healthy. And I would just give up and I think a lot of people do that too. And so I think. know, if I could it again, if the is out my drinking, let's not call it also like getting healthier.
[00:13:28] Sonia: Right. I think that was the main driver of me feeling unhealthy. And so I should have focused on the drinking and then maybe, you know, A year later, focus on like meal prepping and things like that, because
[00:13:43] Kathleen: Yes. Yes.
[00:13:47] Sonia: not that that's the reason I didn't, but I think part of it is that I, I think part of it is I didn't want to admit it was a problem.
[00:13:55] Sonia: And so I just lumped it, into getting healthier. but on its [00:14:00] own moderating or quitting drinking. That's a goal of a year. That is the goal of the year. So let's talk about balance because we know it's easy, I've seen you do it, overextend yourself. So does balance mean to you in your sober life?
[00:14:20] Kathleen: Well, for me, I actually think of balance more as harmony. So when I hear balance, I picture like this perfect 50, 50 scale. And that just doesn't feel realistic to me in my life. Um, it just doesn't I don't think from a day to day basis, I will be like, well, 50 percent is focused on one thing and 50 percent like I just, for me, it's, It doesn't work in my brain.
[00:14:48] Kathleen: So harmony on the other hand is more for me about prioritizing what matters most and then making space for those things while still taking care of my responsibilities that I can't [00:15:00] necessarily like divest of.
[00:15:02] Sonia: Yeah.
[00:15:03] Kathleen: it's about setting really clear boundaries that I'm not overextending myself. And as you know, I have challenges with this
[00:15:11] Sonia: Yeah.
[00:15:12] Kathleen: some days one area of my life me might need more attention and that's okay because it has to shift depending on what's happening and what the priority is for that day.
[00:15:21] Kathleen: So harmony to me feels more flexible and intentional and grounded in what I value. And it's especially true in sobriety.
[00:15:30] Sonia: So I hear that but a follow up is what is one area of your life that feels most out of balance? Right now. And what's your plan? Your specific plan to address it?
[00:15:45] Kathleen: So work, work is out of harmony for me.
[00:15:48] Sonia: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:15:57] Kathleen: to have a thriving practice. I [00:16:00] really, really consider my job a true, true privilege and it all, and I love it and I also love it. So it doesn't feel like work for me. But I also know that I'm working too much.
[00:16:10] Kathleen: And so I realized that, well, I love one on one coaching therapy and I love couples work. It also limits the number of people I can help. So in the new year, this is my plan. I'm planning to bring on a new therapist to join me in my practice. And I'm also working on creating some offerings that can reach more people.
[00:16:33] Kathleen: And there's definitely going to be some heavy lifting involved in both of those. So this is more of a long term solution than a short term solution. Short term, it might mean it might look and feel the same. Um, but I, the goal is for me to keep serving my purpose and also carving out more space in my life to spend with my daughter, to spend doing the things I love.
[00:16:59] Kathleen: And [00:17:00] I am finally taking a vacation for the first time in years, like years, it's been six years since I took like a going somewhere warm vacation. And that feels like a huge step towards restoring some harmony in my life.
[00:17:21] Sonia: Are you going to be working on that vacation?
[00:17:23] Kathleen: No, I have blocked my calendar and I'm not taking any clients for two weeks.
[00:17:30] Sonia: god. I didn't know that. I
[00:17:33] Kathleen: taking any clients for two weeks.
[00:17:35] Kathleen: I also plan, I was saying to my daughter the other day, she's a big reader as you know, and um, I was like, I was telling her I have not read a fiction book also probably in six years because I've been so dedicated to my work and every book I read is nonfiction. Um, and so I [00:18:00] plan on also reading a fiction novel while I'm on vacation.
[00:18:03] Kathleen: So it's going to be really a vacation.
[00:18:05] Sonia: can help you with that. I read like a fiction book every couple of weeks.
[00:18:09] Kathleen: Yeah, definitely helped me with that. Like I have no idea where to start and I, I used to be so into reading, like
[00:18:15] Sonia: Yeah.
[00:18:15] Kathleen: I would just read and read and read and read. And I don't, I do still read a lot, but I'm reading journal articles and books on therapy and couples work and all that stuff. So I am really, really, really tuning out from work on my vacation.
[00:18:31] Sonia: I love that. You know what you could also do? You could read trashy magazines. Yeah.
[00:18:35] Kathleen: I also love, I used to love trashy magazines. Loved. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:18:39] Sonia: else weekly. Yeah,
[00:18:41] Kathleen: Yeah, for sure. I know. I'm really, really excited. I'm really excited. So how about self care? What's your non negotiable when it comes to taking care of yourself? Yes, for sure.
[00:18:59] Sonia: [00:19:00] also think self care is you have to feel good enough about yourself. to do it, right? regardless of how much time you have, if you're feeling shitty about yourself, you're not going to feel like doing self care.
[00:19:12] Sonia: And So it's a time issue, one thing I've learned this year, and you know, interviewed so many amazing guests and it's really gotten me to think, and I, I really think now that sleep is non negotiable. so I'm somebody that can get away with less sleep, I can sleep four hours and function the next day, but I, I notice that don't, I'm making worse decisions, right?
[00:19:41] Sonia: And so I think there's more and more studies coming out about how being sleep has a lot of effects on our motor function and cognitive function, right? Like almost as much as drinking.
[00:19:53] Sonia: And so. think that the sleep thing, because I noticed too, I'll make better decisions about food when I've slept [00:20:00] eight hours.
[00:20:01] Sonia: Yeah, I'll make better decisions about working out. it's easier to skip a workout when you haven't slept, or it's easier to, you know, give up on things like that, or you can shift your focus. So, and for me also, especially with drinking, it's a big trigger, for wanting to drink if I am sleep deprived.
[00:20:18] Sonia: And so, yeah, that's a big one for me. How do you create space for yourself when life is hectic? Do you have a go to strategy?
[00:20:26] Kathleen: Well, when my life gets hectic, my boundaries become non negotiable, so I get really strict about protecting my time and energy. Um, I too, sleep is such a big deal to me. It is my everything. Absolute priority when things get and feel overwhelming. It's literally the foundation of everything for me. So I have to make sure I'm getting enough rest no matter what exercise is also another non negotiable for me because it has such a huge impact on my mental health.
[00:20:54] Kathleen: Like even if it is 15 minutes of stretching, I really, really try to make it happen. [00:21:00] Um, but I agree with you. I'm the same. sleep is really, Foundational for me, um, movement doesn't really matter what movement it is. And then really clear boundaries. That's, those are the things that I have to have, especially when life gets chaotic.
[00:21:17] Kathleen: And it's interesting because when life gets chaotic, those things can be harder to maintain, but those are the things that you need to maintain, right?
[00:21:25] Sonia: for sure. I think sleep is sometimes one of the first things but now too, we have so many options to help us track like these parameters. And so how much I'm sleeping because of my Apple watch. Right. And
[00:21:40] Kathleen: Yeah,
[00:21:40] Sonia: you, I love waking up and it says you've hit your sleep goal.
[00:21:44] Sonia: And same thing with your activity goal, you can set that. And I think now, we need to use things to of keep us on track and motivate us. I think why not use the technology. out there, right?
[00:21:56] Kathleen: for sure. For sure. Have you ever heard of the aura ring?
[00:21:59] Sonia: [00:22:00] yeah, people are freaking out about the aura ring
[00:22:02] Kathleen: I really think I, you know, I've looked at it. It's not in my budget right now, but
[00:22:08] Sonia: between that and the I just don't see the difference between that and the
[00:22:11] Kathleen: I think it also measures stress. I don't know. I have an old, I have an old version of the Apple watch. I love my Apple watch, but, um, I have clients that have the aura ring and they can really like see where stress was in their life. I, you know what I wish there was, and maybe there is, and I just don't know about it.
[00:22:28] Kathleen: That's entirely possible. I wish there was like a ring that monitored sleep, stress, movement, and glucose.
[00:22:40] Sonia: yeah, we're really into blood sugar. We
[00:22:44] Kathleen: We are, we do. And I didn't tell you, but as part of the metabolic program I'm doing, I get a continuous glucose monitor.
[00:22:54] Sonia: Really?
[00:22:55] Kathleen: I do. Cool.
[00:22:57] Sonia: Oh, man, want to get one thing now. [00:23:00] Yeah,
[00:23:00] Kathleen: I know.
[00:23:01] Sonia: i'm all like i'm all up in sugar spikes now
[00:23:05] Kathleen: Same. I am too. Like I had 60 grams of protein at breakfast this morning.
[00:23:10] Sonia: Oh, you know what I added? I was talking to my friends about, my breakfast situation. I've told you too, like, I eat granola and,
[00:23:16] Kathleen: Yeah.
[00:23:17] Sonia: and, and berries and stuff, but it's not, high in protein, and I notice I get hungry. And so, um, I added cheese.
[00:23:26] Kathleen: Oh, good. That's great.
[00:23:27] Sonia: Yeah, to my yogurt, and it, it really masks the taste of cottage cheese if you don't like it.
[00:23:31] Sonia: And I don't hate it, but yeah, and it adds a decent amount of protein. So,
[00:23:37] Kathleen: can also blend the cottage cheese and then it's, the texture is. The same basically as yogurt.
[00:23:44] Sonia: Yeah. So that's my thing. So can you, do you have time where you were having trouble finding balance and that you really realized that you needed to make some changes?
[00:23:57] Kathleen: [00:24:00] Oh yeah. I mean, I remember, so there's several in my life, but there is one that I actually was just talking to my partner about the other day because when I was, uh, married and I had like another partner, Parents in the household. Um, and actually for as long as I can remember, yoga has really been a big part of my life.
[00:24:22] Kathleen: And when I had another parent living in the household, even though my life was often chaotic with again, work, I. Was devoted to a Saturday morning hot yoga class 8 a. m. Every single week. I went without fail It was my time for self care. It was like I I was really strong. I was flexible I like really kind of sweat out all these toxins and it was really my My time and it was really the only time that I had And it was It meant a lot to me.[00:25:00]
[00:25:00] Kathleen: It meant a lot to me. And this is going to sort of sound like a first world problem. Um, but when I, when I became a full time single mom, it hit me like a ton of bricks that I would no longer be able to do that class because I, my daughter was really little at the time I would have to pay for a babysitter.
[00:25:20] Kathleen: I wasn't really sure about money at the time. Like it was, you know, pretty tight. And so I stopped. And I remember the first Saturday that I didn't go, I cried because I didn't know how I was going to adjust my life. Like I felt like I was trapped in the home partly because I became a full time single mom, like, you know, three weeks after the first lock or before the first lockdown in, in, uh, where I live.
[00:25:48] Kathleen: And so, I didn't know how I was going to get that movement anymore. And it was really hard on me. Like, again, I know I am very conscious and aware of this, this is coming. I'm saying this from a [00:26:00] place of privilege and it does seem like a very much first world problem. But what it was about for me is I no longer had that space for myself.
[00:26:08] Kathleen: I no longer was able to move my body in a way that I knew that my body liked, like, and have community. So I really liked connecting with other people. So it wasn't just about the practice of yoga. It was about like going, connecting with other people, going to that space. Um, and so I really worked around that.
[00:26:30] Kathleen: So I started teaching yoga. I mean, I had been teaching for a long time, but I started reteaching. And so I brought the community to me. So I taught every week in order for me to teach. I knew I had to practice. And so I joined Peloton, like the app, not the, you know, not the full bike thing, but the app. And I was really consistent with my practice every day.
[00:26:53] Kathleen: I practiced on my own. And so I just reframed what it was [00:27:00] going to be because I needed to be home for my daughter. And I actually ended up, you know, making really good friends through teaching yoga in my community. I also learned a lot from the daily practice I was doing. And what's interesting is recently I started going back to a yoga class on Sunday mornings now.
[00:27:21] Kathleen: Um, yeah. And it is so amazing to go back and I really, I feel that sense of community again. I love the practice of going, but I, I was able to get through like the last five, six. So my gosh, it's going to be six years being a single mom. And I made it work. You just make it work. So that's how I sort of found balance.
[00:27:44] Kathleen: Yeah.
[00:27:49] Sonia: that shows you have to be flexible, right? So when, gets in the way of. meeting one of your health goals, you have to adapt. You can't just kind of be like, [00:28:00] oh, well, I guess I can't do that anymore. look, you're going to get injuries, right?
[00:28:03] Sonia: And it's like,
[00:28:04] Kathleen: Yeah,
[00:28:04] Sonia: guess I can't run anymore. no, you can't, but.
[00:28:07] Kathleen: you go for a walk or
[00:28:09] Sonia: And I
[00:28:09] Kathleen: yeah, go for yeah.
[00:28:11] Sonia: like stuck right in that sort of well, if I can't do this, then all is lost. Right. And I think it's really important to adapt
[00:28:19] Sonia: And so, yeah, I think you have to really sit in that. figure out, okay, what I do to make this situation better?
[00:28:26] Sonia: Yeah.
[00:28:29] Kathleen: so interesting too, is about going back to these in person classes. I'm probably the most grateful person there. I am so flipping grateful. I literally am smiling for the whole class because I know, I know the sacrifice it has taken and for me to be back in that space is huge.
[00:28:52] Kathleen: I think, you know, what I talked about too is not only reframing, but changing the narrative, right? Like changing the narrative. And it's such a [00:29:00] big thing in terms of shifting mindset. What's one negative story you've been telling yourself around sobriety that you are ready to let go of?
[00:29:07] Kathleen: Yeah, it
[00:29:10] Sonia: you know, I guess one of many reasons, but I, to me, a big reason my marriage broke up was because of my sobriety. I don't like to party anymore. I wanted to be with my young nieces more. I have really dorky hobbies, shockingly. And so been, yeah, I've been nervous about this.
[00:29:29] Sonia: when, dating and getting into new relationships. I'm always like, am I not fun enough? so I'll be out to dinner on a date and I wonder if they're wondering why I can't just have a glass of wine. Sodating brought up a lot of insecurities about my sobriety. And so, um, Yeah, I just found myself kind of replaying, you know, the things that my ex had said, kind of like projecting them onto this other person, that's they were also.[00:30:00]
[00:30:01] Kathleen: totally makes sense. And this is a narrative that you've had. So what is a positive narrative narrative you can replace it with?
[00:30:08] Sonia: Yeah, I mean, I know, I know this is going to sound a little cheesy, but who, um, has a problem with, you know, With my sobriety just isn't my person, right? And so that's something I came to a while ago about a bunch of different things, not just my sobriety, but the person I end up with is, just going to tolerate me being sober, but they're going to celebrate it.
[00:30:31] Sonia: Right? And
[00:30:32] Kathleen: Mm hmm.
[00:30:32] Sonia: sounds. naive but I really believe it. And so I have people I've met that are, know, I'm sober, their reaction is that's amazing. Congratulations. And then other people, their reaction is so you don't drink at all. I remember I was talking to this one guy and I forgot, I I don't drink pretty early on in like
[00:30:53] Kathleen: Mm hmm.
[00:30:54] Sonia: And, um, I made a joke about this area of Toronto that like used to be known to like get [00:31:00] drugs And he said, Oh, I didn't side you. And I said, I responded with, actually, uh, just as an aside, I don't drink, either. Right. And so I never heard from him again.
[00:31:13] Kathleen: Uh huh.
[00:31:14] Sonia: I remember though, that was the first time I was like, I don't give a shit. I don't give a shit. That's not my person. If you have a problem with that, what are we going to have in common? Right. So yeah, I feel like I've, I've started to work on that like negative. Self talk that like my sobriety is something I shouldn't be ashamed of right?
[00:31:33] Sonia: And I think that I had spent a lot of years being ashamed of it So it was this kind of like negative, you know self talk. So yeah, what do you think is a good? for flipping that negative self talk flipping the script for that
[00:31:49] Kathleen: Well, there's a couple of things I use. And so one of my strategies is something that I've learned, um, in acceptance and commitment therapy, which we have talked about at length before on this podcast. [00:32:00] Um, and so I know it's a concept called diffusion and it's basically, been a game changer for me. So when I have a negative thought that pops up, instead of trying to push it away or hooking onto it, I just say to myself like, Oh, here's that whatever story again, because usually the negative self talk will have a theme to it.
[00:32:20] Kathleen: So, you know, you know, we've talked about this in the past. I'll have some. Um, and so I'll be like, Oh, there's not an inadequate mom story again. And it helps me create some distance from the thought it doesn't, so it just doesn't feel as overwhelming for me. It just separates myself from the thought I also.
[00:32:42] Kathleen: I love using Byron Katie's four questions to challenge negative thoughts. And so her four questions are, is it true? Can I absolutely know that it's true? How do I react when I believe that thought and who would I be without that thought? Yeah. And I [00:33:00] use those a lot. And so those questions not only help me kind of question the thought, but also reflect on how it's affecting me and explore who I might be if I let that go.
[00:33:12] Kathleen: So both of these practices allow me to step back and then get curious and approach my thoughts with a bit more compassionate and clarity. Yeah.
[00:33:22] Sonia: love that. Who would I be without the thought? I love
[00:33:26] Kathleen: Oh yeah. Yeah. Here's a hint. most of the time happier, right? most of the time, more peaceful most of the time. but it's really important to ask the question.
[00:33:41] Sonia: I mean, for me to more confident,
[00:33:43] Kathleen: Yeah.
[00:33:43] Sonia: Yeah. Oh my god! That was big because I know we've done the is the story true thing, but I've done the first couple of questions but I
[00:33:53] Kathleen: Yeah.
[00:33:54] Sonia: two. usually get stuck and so yeah, I think how do I react when I believe that thought? [00:34:00] Um, yeah, and so in the first two, I've, my, my therapist has said that's the CliffNotes version, right? So it's, it's, there's a kernel of truth in there, right?
[00:34:12] Kathleen: Yeah.
[00:34:13] Sonia: sometimes there's a kernel, but um, Yeah, it is the Cliff Notes version. And so, okay, now I know I need to go to the next two questions.
[00:34:21] Sonia: So,
[00:34:22] Kathleen: For sure. But I will like for our listeners, those questions are really explored in Byron Katie's book loving what is, and I think the subtitle of that is loving what is four questions that can change your life. So highly recommend that book. I wrote that book probably 15 years ago and it really changed me.
[00:34:43] Sonia: Okay. I love that. Okay. Now that you've blown our minds, is there a mantra, an affirmation that really resonates with you right now?
[00:34:52] Kathleen: So the one that I'm using now is I create harmony in my life by focusing on what matters. [00:35:00] Yeah. Yeah. It's a good one. It's a good one.
[00:35:04] Kathleen: I. Thank you.
[00:35:05] Sonia: yeah. My
[00:35:05] Kathleen: Yeah, it's a good one. It's what matters to me, right? what truly matters to me, not what matters to, you know, this other person or this other person.
[00:35:14] Kathleen: But I create harmony in my life by focusing on what matters to me.
[00:35:19] Sonia: God. Yeah.
[00:35:20] Kathleen: Yeah.
[00:35:21] Sonia: Do we think is harmony equated to balance
[00:35:24] Kathleen: So sure. That's, that's harmony is my version of balance because to me, balance feels rigid, but harmony feels flexible and fluid. That's just me.
[00:35:36] Sonia: Yeah.
[00:35:37] Kathleen: So you could say I create balance in my life by focusing on what truly matters. And then for me, I use the word harmony.
[00:35:44] Sonia: What's another piece of advice we can give about letting go of those old narratives?
[00:35:51] Kathleen: So I really think there's a lot of room for self compassion here because. You know, we can't go back and change our past selves. We [00:36:00] can't, we can just really learn from our past selves. And I think having compassion for that person that you were in the past really will help you let go of those narratives.
[00:36:12] Kathleen: we are different people. We know different things. So I think having a lot of self compassion for, you know, who that person was and what they were going through at the time can help us let go of that. If that makes sense.
[00:36:26] Sonia: Yeah, it totally does.
[00:36:28] Sonia:
[00:36:28] Kathleen: this has been a really informative, and I love this episode actually, what, what resonated with you the most? I think I know, but
[00:36:37] Sonia: I think we know too, like what you just said like, who would I be without these thoughts? And it's
[00:36:43] Kathleen: yeah.
[00:36:43] Sonia: what that really means is that's who I actually am. Right? I could reach my full potential without these negative thoughts. Right? And so that's huge.
[00:36:55] Sonia: And so I, and I do, I have this issue about feeling like, oh, I don't deserve this. [00:37:00] Right? And so thoughts I think are really detrimental to I don't deserve to be happier. I don't deserve to be successful because. And so, yeah, obviously, yeah, that resonated with me. What resonated with you?
[00:37:15] Kathleen: One of the things you said really resonated with me and that was that self care, you have to feel good enough about yourself to take care of yourself. And I think that was an important thing for me to recognize because, um, you do, you do have to feel good about your enough about yourself to actually even want to take care of yourself.
[00:37:37] Kathleen: And if you aren't doing self care, if you're not feeling good about yourself, Is there work you need to do around your self esteem, around your confidence, around your worth, um, that maybe takes priority before, maybe that is your self care right now. Yeah.
[00:37:52] Sonia: Yeah. I noticed if I'm having like a bad day, I don't feel like working out. It's but that's part of my self care. [00:38:00] And so you,when you're not doing well, it's harder,
[00:38:04] Kathleen: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:38:06] Sonia: Yeah. It's harder to take care of yourself, but I feel super excited about the year ahead.
[00:38:11] Sonia: I'm going to look up your. Weirdo journal on Amazon. Um, and yeah, it's funny. I love notebooks, but I find then I'll have like four different notebooks.
[00:38:22] Kathleen: This is comprehensive.
[00:38:24] Kathleen: oh man, it is good. It is. I will send you a link and maybe you want to put it in the show notes too. It's, it's really good. And
[00:38:31] Sonia: I am excited. I hope for everyone listening, these questions, sparks and ideas and inspiration, and you can take them and journal about them or talk them over.
[00:38:40] Kathleen: having your best year isn't about perfection. So it's important to remember that it's about progress and intention.
[00:38:49] Sonia: Yeah. And thanks for being with us on this journey this year, and we will see you next time [00:39:00]