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Welcome to Portfolio Perspective: Managing Risk & Seizing Opportunity, a podcast focused on the asset-based lending industry. Join Andrew Pace, Chief Client Experience Officer at Asset Compliant Solutions, as he interviews experts, shares insights, and explores strategies for managing risk, optimizing portfolio performance, and seizing opportunities in an ever-evolving financial landscape. From regulatory changes to technological advances, each episode provides actionable takeaways and deep dives into industry trends. Whether you’re a lender, servicer, or recovery expert, this podcast offers valuable perspectives to enhance your approach and improve outcomes.
Business should be sort of come first.
All the other stuff is just noise.
And we have to deal with it.
We have to face it with it within our own markets.
But how do we do business?
How do we generate business opportunities for our members, both domestically here in the
US and abroad?
Welcome back to ACS Portfolio Perspective.
I'm your host, Andrew Pace, Chief Client Experience Officer at ACS.
today I'm joined by Chad Sluss, Chief Executive Officer of the National Equipment Finance
Association, better known as NEFA.
Chad brings more than 20 years of association leadership experience to the role with a
career that's taken him from a food service marketing job to running a global legal
network operating across 52 countries.
He joined NIFA in twenty twenty.
Right at the height of the COVID pandemic, and has since led the organization through one
of the most turbulent stretches in the equipment finance industry's history.
Under his leadership, NIFA's membership has grown from roughly two hundred and sixty-five
member companies to over four hundred.
Chad, welcome to the ACS portfolio perspective.
Thanks, Andrew.
Happy to be here.
Appreciate the invite.
any time.
Uh Chad, what really struck me as I was preparing for this conversation is how nonlinear
your path has been.
You didn't come up through equipment finance.
You did not spend your career inside one association.
And yet everything you've done seems to connect in hindsight.
I want to start there, not with titles or timelines, but with the thread that runs through
your career and shaped how you lead today.
So you described your career as falling backwards into things.
If you don't mind, could you walk us through the thread that connects Eramark, the state
bar of Michigan, the Michigan Builders Association?
in an international legal network operating across fifty-two countries.
I've been fortunate in my career to have really great mentors, number one, and they've
steered me in the right direction through all of my different iterations in my career.
I uh I started in food service.
That wasn't my plan.
I was looking to go into just general corporate marketing and did an internship.
Uh one started junior year in college for Eramark.
Really liked the people
you know, presented a job opportunity for me after I graduated.
So I took that that job.
I was close to moving out of state, but I wanted to stay in state with family and friends
here in Michigan.
So, you know, that's what led me to Eramark.
And then once I got into it, I was a couple couple of years in and realized food service
marketing really wasn't for me.
And uh decided to go back, get my master's degree.
and needed to go land a job of some sort to pay my bills and whatnot, pay my student loan
back.
And uh fell backwards into the nonprofit, which was a Mount Pleasant Convention and
Visitors Visitor Bureau, excuse me.
And I was doing sales, them selling convention space, golf packages, whatnot, and just
sort of opened my eyes to the nonprofit sector.
And my executive director there said, if this is what you want to do, the next logical
step is mid level management.
And that took me to the state bar of Michigan, which was sort of night and day where you
had um, you know, at the convention bureau, you're selling uh space, and that's how we got
our funding through a local tax that was paid by the hotels and convention center there in
Mount Pleasant.
Conversely, you go to the state bar of Michigan, it's a mandatory association.
So to practice law in Michigan, you have to have your license through the state bar.
And when I was there, we had about twenty seven thousand members.
When I left, we were in the low thirties, thirty-one, thirty-two thousand.
And um it was interesting just going through that exercise, working there.
Again, had a great mentor.
Uh, she left and I was sort of looking around, trying to decide where do I want to go
next.
And associated builders and contractors had an executive director role.
And I really wanted to lead a smaller nonprofit.
So that was the next step for me.
Interviewed, landed that job, uh, went through the process right before the crash.
I was there about three years and then the crash occurred and I was at a crossroads where
I had to lay off my entire team where I could look at possibly moving on and then naming
my successor with the board.
And got lucky again, uh, found an international legal uh organization called Primaris,
moved over there for thirteen years, was able to
keep everyone at associated bills and contractors doing that turbulent time.
And uh yeah, worked there for 13 years, learned a lot.
Um, never learned any second languages.
I should have as much as I traveled.
But uh yeah, that was a great experience.
Um learned a lot at that organization, expanded from two countries when I joined to 52
before I left and had to go through a lot of growing pains, you know, understanding uh
cross cul like different cultures, cross border international business.
I mean, all these nuances that I was never really exposed to before and got to travel to
almost 40 countries when I was there working at that job.
And then uh it was time for me to move on.
I was getting towards the end of just burnout, doing the same thing quite a bit.
So I started looking around and then landed the position with NIFA and sort of brought
sort of all this different experience, uh, package of experience with me to NIFA and
joined at a very inopportune time during the pandemic.
So, but again, it was another challenge.
So you stepped into that NIFA CEO role in I think what, September of 2020, as you
mentioned, right right in the middle of the pandemic.
NIFA's core value proposition at the time, in person connection, which obviously was
essentially off the table.
So what was your first week like and what did you have to figure out fast?
Drinking from a fire hose, number one.
Uh during the interview process, the board, the hiring committee, which was comprised of
uh a number of board members, shared with me, sort of tipped their hands and shared with
me what they were looking for and the expectation for my first twelve months.
So which was
We need to change up what we're doing.
We need to offer more value.
We need to engage the members.
So those are my three primary goals.
And number one, I mean, coming in in September, we were in the middle of our due cycle.
So we needed to make sure that people were gonna renew their dues so that we could pay our
team, pay all of our bills, et cetera.
So that was priority number one.
You know, how do we offer value?
How do I map out my vision with the board's vision and make sure that
These two hundred and sixty companies will stay with us for twenty twenty one when there's
so many unknowns and uncertainty out there with what was happening in the world.
Um, you know, we just started grinding and looking at what can we do virtually, how can we
ramp up our communications to make sure the members are seeing value, how can we connect
people uh virtually instead of in person?
So we had to sort of rethink everything that we did.
And in March we had our
virtual conference, which was a day and a half conference, which attracted several hundred
people.
And we thought, okay, now we're on to something.
Let's do some more virtual programming.
So we started ramping up our webinars, virtual networking calls.
We had some urban tasting things coming out of the pandemic just to ship things to people.
uh I think we brought in a mixologist in twenty twenty two.
So we're shortly after the after the pandemic, but still people still enjoyed
meeting up virtually.
So, you know, we just learned some lessons and then got back in person uh I think that
fall of twenty one in Charlotte.
And people were anxious.
We still had we had the backup plan of masks there because we weren't sure if we could go
into that community with or without masks.
So we had a sponsor.
So um some people wore the mask, some didn't.
We had concerns with
people picking up COVID, being in person.
So we had to make sure that we just informed everyone, stay away if you're sick.
We don't want you here.
We'll refund your money.
All those things that, you know, you had to just deal with and plan for.
And we had a great turnout.
Um what we tried to do at that first conference was number one, we had a great committee
that was very eager to really be engaged and help make that an impactful event.
So
We uh we made some changes there.
We expanded the footprint of our exhibit hall.
We looked at um making adding more networking time in the exhibit hall and making the
exhibit hall more of the central hub for all of our activities.
And then obviously we'd have to go to some other rooms for education.
So that was part of our strategy.
And then I just in conversation leading up to that conference, you know, probably for my
first six or eight months, I was just talking to a lot of different people and finding
out.
What are your needs?
What's missing from NIFA?
What do we need to add?
And the networking component was key, number one, making sure the exhibitors and the
sponsors had sufficient space to do business in their booth if they wished to, or set
appointments with people throughout the conference center.
So we made sure we had tables and whatnot set up for appointments for people.
So again, we tried to listen.
And then uh I was talking to Randy Hogg from LTI.
uh
And he was very involved with the Chris Walker Education Fund committee.
And that group was having separate events, but a separate event, networking event and a
fundraiser one evening, and people would kind of splinter off and it was dividing our
whole conference community by going there or doing their own thing.
Another thing that cost us quite a bit of money that I implemented was adding um
uh doing away with the two drink ticket item at our conferences and there was a reason for
that.
It kept the cost down.
But what happened over the years is once people had their one or two drinks, they would
leave.
And then you would have everyone splintering off, not staying together.
So we put bars in the exhibit hall, had longer cocktail parties to keep the group
together, to have more conducive networking.
And in addition to that, at that fall conference we did a really big fundraising event.
For the Chris Walker committee and had everyone participate.
We made it a conference function activity.
And that really led us to having that kickoff event the first night of the conference
that's now our foundation event.
So just through conversation, you learn what's working, what isn't, uh, try and look at
the pitfalls that the organization's facing and you know, try and fill them in if you
will.
Yeah, no, thank you.
You know, what stands out on all that is how much time you spend learning how to deliver
value in very different environments, mandatory membership, voluntary membership, the
global organizations, local ones.
And then you bring all that perspective into NIFA at a really pivotal moment.
Um so if you don't mind, let's uh let's talk about the three different member categories
for NIFA.
You have funding sources, broker lessors, and service providers, each with distinct needs.
How you program for three different audiences without diluting the experience for any of
them?
Well, I learned that it's very symbiotic.
So we have to make sure that our brokers and broker leseurs are showing up and engaged
because our lenders and our funding sources wish for them to be there so they can do
business.
And then our service providers obviously want to do do business with both of those
audiences.
So we've made it one of our cr critical criteria.
for our conferences and regional events is to really focus on what can we do to bring out
that small independent broker or broker less or how do we get them engaged?
Because that that segment is really the glue that keeps our whole organization together.
So we've done programming around specific broker curriculums.
Uh we've organized regional events that are really catered to the broker audience, knowing
that
Everyone will learn, obviously, but if we can get that group to show up, then I think
everyone else will follow along.
So I mean that's been a one of our critical points.
And now uh that we've hired Skip Wayner as our director of education the last couple of
years, we're now seeing that investment in a new team member pay off with new curriculums
being developed.
We have gosh, over seventy hours of education that we've recorded that's uploaded into our
online learning uh community or LMS system.
So that's all free as a member.
So people just need to log in and they can watch some conference education.
They can look at our most recent excuse me, most recent uh webinars and our monthly
roundtable knowledge exchange programs.
So those take place every month.
Again, Skip manages those, brings in outside speakers or members to help facilitate
discussions on various topics.
So yeah, I mean that's
That's all we need the education that'll help us educate the younger community within the
industry.
Those that are, you know, entering the industry that might be in their twenties or
thirties that need to learn from our more experienced members.
So the education will tie all that together and we have to be thinking about what our
organization will look like in 20 years.
So I won't be here probably in twenty years.
But someone else will.
And we need to make sure that that next generation is ready to take the reins from our our
member companies and make sure they see value in NIFA.
Otherwise, we won't be in business.
Right.
And as much as NIFA is about conferences and community, it's ultimately a window into
what's happening in equipment finance day to day.
Your members are seeing things in real time that the rest of the market has not caught up
to yet.
Let's talk about what those signals look like.
right now and what you're hearing from the field.
So you describe equipment finance as being on the tip of the economy, always seeing shifts
in business sentiment before they show up in broader indicators.
What are your members telling you right now about deal flow, credit conditions, and
equipment demand?
I think the demand is out there from what I'm hearing.
It's just people have to work harder to get the business owners to move forward with
deals.
I mean there's a lot of activity, there's been pinned up demand
for a number of years with the economic climate.
I mean, coming coming to this organization, this industry in twenty twenty, I thought the
pandemic would be the biggest challenge.
But we've had these economic cycles and, you know, international, we've had global issues,
we've had wars that we've dealt with over the last six years, dealing with one now that's
impacting the industry, um, just with flow of equipment and products to build the
equipment.
So I think
Overall, I think the economy is holding its own, generally speaking.
Uh, from what I'm hearing from members, there are certain sectors that are qu doing quite
well and there's some that are a little bit slower.
but again, that's with any any economic climate, you're gonna have, you know, sort of this
bell curve where things are up and down, which is normal, especially with what's happening
in the you know, what I was hoping would happen with the new administration that came in.
We would see more business focus and you know, regulation might subside a bit with the
current administration.
And what I didn't expect to see happen was all the geopolitical uh issues pop up.
That uh, you know, it is what it is.
I mean, we can't sidestep it.
That's that's just the nature of uh what's happening out there.
So we just have to deal with those things as best as as we can and control the things that
we can control uh as an industry.
but yeah, we
you know, when I came into this industry, several longstanding members shared with me that
this industry is on the tip of either, you know, a really booming economy or a downturn.
And I've seen that firsthand in my six years.
So things start slowing down and then our members start getting anxious.
I get calls all the time.
What's happening?
What are you hearing out there?
So I try and keep a pulse on on what's happening.
Not with just what our members are doing, but talking with
You know, my counterparts at E LFA and other organizations, just to keep a pulse on what's
happening within within their membership as well.
Sure.
And your spring conference featured an economist who was cautiously bullish on the US
market, citing strong investment activity, notably the AI build out as a significant
economic driver.
What were some of his key takeaways and how did the room react to that?
I think he had
Overall pretty good news for us that the economy was holding its own, uh, mainly due to a
lot of AI investment.
So that's that's certainly helped the US economy.
One of his biggest concerns was uh the population.
And we might see in the next two years the first time that we have a population decline in
our history.
Uh so that that has to do with some of the uh some people being moved out of our country.
as we've seen on the news and whatnot and heard about it, but also with uh just people
having less children.
So that's just the nature of what's happening from a population growth standpoint.
And from my perspective, I think we need to strike a balance on what's happening uh
politically and from a regulatory standpoint.
We need people to immigrate into our country to help us here in the US anyway, to help us
with
the needs of a growing economy.
we we're not keeping up with it with our current population growth.
and that looks challenging for us in the next five to ten years.
So something has to change there.
And we're not the only country facing this.
I mean many countries around the world are in the same situation as the US.
I mean China with some of the restrictive population uh practices, uh they're in a much
more difficult situation from my perspective than the US.
But again, we're not in it it's not gonna be d easy for us to get ourselves out of this,
but some things have to change to keep up with demand of employers and and all the growth
that's happening out there.
Otherwise we're gonna see more and more employers offshore their businesses and go to
where there's a labor force that could produce their products.
Yeah, we just we just need people to have more kids, right?
Like uh like like they did back in the seventies and eighties when people wanted to have
big families, you know, and they grow grew up.
Um, that doesn't seem to be uh in anybody's plans right now.
That nobody wants to you know, they have career, they obviously they they go to expensive
colleges, they come out of school, they have accumulated all this debt, so they need to
get in the workforce and um you know, they're not they're just not having having kids
right away.
So hopefully within the next five or ten years, um, you know, all those college grads will
will will settle down and start having a lot of kids.
Otherwise we're gonna have to have some really cool robots produced that can do a lot more
than what they can today.
So Yeah, absolutely.
Um there will there won't be many, many, many people that take care of us as we as we age.
eh so transportation has been one of the harder hit asset classes in recent years.
You've watched the volatility up close.
What's the current sentiment among your members who are active in transportation, lending
or leasing?
Uh
You know, I've talked to a few people recently.
They're cautiously optimistic 'cause that was a that was a sector that was hit hard a few
years ago and took some time to come out of it.
And I I think that particular segment of the industry with again, they're they're having
challenges with labor.
They they're having a hard time finding drivers, number one, and just the cost of moving
goods uh is is challenging.
And I mean, these companies we've we've seen over the last year or two some large
transportation companies go under.
And that's a bit shocking.
So we'll have to figure out a way to move our move our goods across the across the country
one way or another.
I'm not sure exactly how.
Um, I mean, we're seeing the development of some of the self driving vehicles.
I know there's some things in the works for self driving trucks.
I don't think that's the solution short term.
For us because y you need to make sure those those products are safe, number one, uh and
uh can effectively move the products around the country.
Excuse me.
So yeah, I mean, I I haven't heard a lot of negativity about transportation, uh, which is
good.
So that tells me that I think it's it's it's okay.
It's not great by any means.
Sort of my general sense.
So when you put all that together, the economic shifts, technology changes.
demographic challenges.
It really highlights how important it is for an association to stay ahead of the curve.
So that brings us to where you're taking NIFA next and how you're thinking about preparing
members for what is coming, not just, you know, what's happening today.
So let's talk about building a future ready association, education, global connections,
what's next.
So you've built a substantial education portfolio.
You we talked a little uh briefly about it earlier, 60 to 70 hour online learning library.
Monthly knowledge exchange roundtables.
I think uh you've had somewhere between thirty to forty participants, a seven part broker
less or series, uh, new four part AI and tech series.
What's driving member demand for education right now and what topics are generating the
most interest?
AI is the number one topic that comes up with our members.
So that's what prompted us to do the four part series.
Uh we're we're likely going to have some sort of technology update.
at our conferences and round through roundtable discussions, just because that's a hot
topic.
And obviously companies are trying to stay competitive and they're looking at different
technology tools to help them be more efficient, more effective, help with the flow of
their of their deals.
Um and again, labor labor costs are expensive.
And conversely, on the other side, it's challenging to find good labor sources.
So I think uh
Those are just challenges that not only our industry is facing, but across the w across
the world for that matter.
I mean, we're just seeing it out there everywhere.
Um, I'm I'm encouraged by what our sister organization is doing, ELFA, and with the C L F
trying to go down into universities to draw people into our industry.
So I think that's that's a really great
incentive or a great initiative, I should say, that's uh that's underway.
And I think that can get us a lot of traction.
Because honestly, six, seven years ago, I didn't know anything about this industry.
So it I was blown away uh how large it is, number one, and the opportunities.
And it all makes sense once you get into it.
Like, oh, it makes perfect sense why a company would not pay all that cash on the front
end for a piece of equipment and why they'd lease it.
So and then all the ancillary um companies that are involved in the industry.
So I I think as an organization, we need to continue to look ahead and try and anticipate
what our members are going to facing from challenges and then also opportunities out in
the marketplace.
And we as an organization and the industry for that matter need to be on the front end of
those things and really educating our members on what the opportunities may may look like.
We should be looking at other industries out there to see what they're doing.
Um I mean, I've been told that this industry
has always been a little slow to move and change.
So I think there's some lessons there that we should be looking at perhaps other
industries that are more cutting edge and maybe meet someplace in the middle.
So and just uh just maybe not be averse to change, but embrace it and just look at the
opportunities out there because that may help our businesses, our member companies grow
significantly and expand their services.
For sure.
So you
You convene a CEO round table every six months with counterpart associations from
Australia, New Zealand, the UK, and continental Europe.
Most people in the audience don't think of equipment finance as globally as a globally
connected industry.
Can you change that perception for us?
What what are you learning from your international peers that's applicable here in the US?
Yeah, and I have to mention Canada because Michael Rote with the C FLA is the person that
really organizes
this uh call every six months.
And it's very interesting.
We get on the call.
We're all facing relative regulatory challenges in our in our own markets.
we're facing global issues.
We're looking at the geopolitical landscape, trying to see how everyone can work
collaboratively, even though there are challenges from one country to another.
Uh for what I mean, it's just that that's the political landscape that we live in today.
But
In my estimation, in my view, business should be sort of come first.
All the other stuff is just noise.
And we have to deal with it.
We have to face it uh w it within our own markets.
But how do we do business?
How do we generate business opportunities for our members, both domestically here in the
US and abroad?
And I think my mindset was changed over thirteen years working in an international network
of law firms, and I saw it firsthand.
Like
We're all pretty darn similar for one from one market to another.
We all are trying to make a living, provide for our families, you know, have a little fun
here and there, take a vacation.
I think the Europeans do it best.
They take two to four week vacations compared to the US.
You know, we might take a week off here and there.
So I think there's some lessons that we can learn from the Europeans for sure.
Four day work weeks.
Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
I mean, those are all things that we should be exploring.
And again
We'll see where we go with that.
But I think there are many lessons to learn from our friends in other countries.
And I'm keen on just continuing to explore relationships and explore opportunities where
we can do business with each other.
So you you've set up a formal memorandum of understanding with an Australian broker
association, and it's already generated cross border business for NIPA members.
How did that come about and what does it tell you about where the opportunities are?
Yeah.
So I started some conversations with that group a few years ago.
Uh, they generally were attending the ELFA conference, and that's where we met, started
talking, and that just led us to putting this uh MOU memorandum of of understanding in
place.
And yeah, I was approached maybe a month ago by an organization in Australia.
that had a client that was looking to expand in the US and they wanted to make some
connections with a few companies here.
So I made some introductions, got them connected and we'll see where it goes.
I don't know if it's generated anything yet, but at least there's an opportunity.
Um, you know, that just happened because we were open to the idea of seeing if there's
should we explore something?
Are there opportunities for our collective members to learn from each other?
So one of the things that we haven't done yet, but it's coming, is we're gonna do perhaps
every other month or maybe on a quarterly basis, we're gonna do a little write up and that
group will send something over for one of our newsletters and then I'll be doing the same,
you know, getting a pulse from our members on a short little write up so they can
understand the US market a little bit better.
Uh Michael Rote up in Canada, he and I have talked about some sort of similar relationship
since we're we're next door neighbors.
So we should be working together in some capacity.
So that's being explored and
We'll see where things go with Europeans or our friends in New Zealand.
Uh, I think there's a new group that's forming in India.
So I heard that through the Great Fine.
And I believe there's also a Latin American group that's uh being formed.
So they'll come into our conversation eventually as well.
So again, we're just I I think at the end of the day, we're looking to create business
opportunities for our members.
And if that means
Looking at that domestically, we are, of course, or do we look abroad?
Well, there's a couple hundred more countries out there you haven't mentioned yet.
So the opportunities are endless.
So you're about to kick off your 2027, 2029 strategic planning cycle, starting with member
town halls and roundtables.
What are the big questions you'll be asking your members and where do you expect the
strategic priorities to land?
I think mainly what what value do they want to derive from NIFA?
First and foremost, what does that look like today, next year, and three years?
Does that mean that we reshape our conferences again?
We did that five years ago.
Do we need to go through another iteration of changes?
Do we change up our regional events?
Do we do less events and have larger events?
Maybe instead of six regional events and two conferences?
Do we do four events that are strategically located?
That have a day and a half component to it.
Those are all the questions I'm going to be asking.
Like, what do you want from the association?
What's missing?
Uh, what extra value can we offer you?
How do we get your younger team members engaged with us?
What would move the needle to have them show up at an event?
Do we offer them a free pass to come to a show that basically the rest of a rest of the
group underwrites for X number of younger team members or younger uh generation people?
I mean, those are all things that, you know, if we know what people want, we can make it
happen.
So and I'll be working with our board to put that together.
We'll do a survey and then my goal would be to roll that out and at least provide a high
level overview at our fall conference in Atlanta of what we've learned and what the plan's
shaping up to look like.
So before we wrap up, Chad, there's one topic we have carefully avoided until now.
We have agreed on leadership.
association strategy, even on where the economy might be headed.
But there's one place where we are fundamentally divided.
You being a diehard Detroit Lions fan, and me a lifelong Buffalo Bills fan.
Two fan bases that show up year after year with unbelievable loyalty, even though neither
of us have brought home a Super Bowl.
So instead of debating curses, um I I think there's maybe a better question to end on.
Which team has
the more passionate fan base.
Your Lions are my That's a tough one.
Uh I mean your team historically has done better than Lions.
We had we had a stretch of maybe thirty years where we couldn't find the right coach.
We couldn't find the right players.
I mean, we had Barry Sanders on our team for how many years?
And we couldn't do anything.
We couldn't build a team around him for whatever reason.
And that came down to the leadership and uh the the staff that was there.
I think we finally landed on the right coach, who's sort of a hard nosed type of guy
that's putting really good coordinators around him, good players around him.
So I'm I'm optimistic that we might get a Super Bowl in my lifetime.
But to answer your question, I it's a toss up.
I think your your fan base is pretty darn solid.
it seems they're they're they're not afraid of the cold weather, that's for sure.
Because we have a we have a dome here in Detroit.
And that might make us a little more soft compared to Buffalo Bills fans, 'cause you guys
are out there partying, leading up, doing some tailgating in advance, standing outside.
We do that as well, but we're able to warm up and go inside.
You go into the you just stay in the elements.
So I I give might give the edge to the Buffalo fan base.
I was gonna say, um, you know, we we do play we do play in the elements.
So I think our passion shows up.
in that regard, 'cause we don't play in a dome, right?
Um, obviously the snow, the wind, freezing temperatures, lake effect, as you know.
You g I mean it and I will say Detroit has been a great cousin to the Bills because we've
had some we've had some weather events that have that have we've had to relocate.
Detroit's almost like a second home for the Bills.
We've had we've had plenty of home games in Detroit.
You guys were great, great hosts and we're so grateful for that, you know, relationship
that we have with you guys and
We're we're lucky we w you know, we're not in the same division or conference and and um
you know, hopefully, you know, one day we'll we'll face off against each other in a super
bowl and at least one of us will be ha I mean, I I'll be upset if the Bills lose, but I'll
be happy for for all my my friends like yourself that are Lions fans, um that they finally
finally won one.
but yeah, you know.
Yeah.
Um yeah, I mean we got there four in a row back in the nineties, but I was
you know, was a young teenager and didn't have season tickets and I wasn't as as invested.
but you mentioned tailgating for for Lions.
I you know, I think the maybe the one advantage we have is our our sa our stadium is in is
in the suburbs.
So there's plenty of land, a lot of parking, um, which allows us to not only tailgate for
hours, but we can tailgate uh for days before the game with with R Vs.
Um
You spend the night after the game, you go home the day after.
so yeah, I think I I would agree.
I think we we have the slight edge.
Um, you know, although you guys for yeah, you've had Barry Sanders, you've had Calvin
Johnson, you know, um, you know, Chris Spielman, you guys have had some outstanding
players, just never seemed to, you know, put it all together.
Um but yeah, I I I've always had a
a soft spot for for for Lions, Lions fans and that in that franchise.
That's Ralph Wilson, our our our founder of the the Bills is is from Detroit.
Um you know, so so yeah, so I kind of feel like we're uh we're we're somewhat, you know,
related.
But um but yeah, I you know, I I think both fan bases are are passionate.
You know, you guys showed up all those years um when you knew you were pretty much out of
it.
Uh although
Some fans would show up and hide their identity with wearing paper bags.
I I've I will say for the seventeen years we we didn't make the playoffs, we there was
probably some fans there wearing paper bags or you know, that weren't weren't proud to to
be a Bills fan during that time period.
But um Or stay warm.
Right.
Well, I I'm gonna tell you, I've been to some road games.
Um, you know, I've been to Indianapolis, LucasOil.
I I'm gonna say that um, you know, I
w when the conditions are at their worst, you know, in Buffalo, it's usually when our
crowd gets the loudest.
But as I get older and I you know, I understand the appeal of watching the games indoors
every once in a while.
It's kind of refreshing and my tolerance for the cold has definitely gone down.
Um, you know, I I would much I I was kind of of the opinion that we should have had it
out.
But um 'cause I'd like to use it for more more than just ten or eleven games a year.
Um, you know, bring in concerts and and things like that that
regardless of the elements, you can have a nice comfortable experience, you know, enjoying
a an event, which we want to be old school and football's meant to be played outdoors,
kind of kind of thing.
So, you know, um there's gonna be some older folks that aren't gonna be going to those
outdoor games when when it's December and January and it's twenty below zero.
So go ahead.
Going back to the nineties just for a minute.
It I think Buffalo would have won one had you had one of our kickers back in the day.
So we had some decent kickers.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Had he been on your team, some of those kicks would have went through.
Hanson was automatic.
Yeah.
Um, although Norwood was good for us in in in the regular season.
Uh he just missed the most important kick of his life and that set in motion, I think,
four straight.
We we may have won another one or two after that if if we win that first one.
But you know, I think we've gained a lot of a lot of fans.
I think uh, you know, through that run, I think uh a lot of casual football fans that
didn't have a horse in the race, they were from a city that didn't have a team.
I think I think they became Bills fans because we had that, you know, we had a good
nucleus with Kelly Reed, Bruce, you know, um Thurman, likable players.
Um, you know, so I think we I think the Bills, you know, grew in popularity during that
time period.
There's a lot of Bills fans that I've
I run into now that were never, you know, they didn't you know, they became Bills fans
because of that Super Bowl run.
So and now we're getting a second generation of fans that um, you know, because of, you
know, Josh Allen.
So we're getting a lot of people that like the Bills because of, you know, how Josh
Allen's been playing.
So we're you know, we've been pretty fortunate uh to have that and um and obviously you
guys getting Dan Campbell and and Goff and you know, you guys have, you know, I'm on Ron
St.
Brown and your defense.
Hutchinson, you know, you you were probably an injury or two away from winning it winning
it a year or two ago.
Um, you know, if Hutchins going down didn't help us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was that was a big big injury and I was pleased in the draft they picked up uh some
more defensive players to help us there.
So Yeah, I mean, we'll see.
Bring in some young talent and build around uh some of our veterans.
That's the key.
That's right.
That's right.
So before we go, is there anything else that uh that we didn't cover that you'd like to
like to touch on?
No, I think this has been fun.
Appreciate the time and appreciate you organizing this.
Well, thank you for joining us today.
I you know, you're you're you're one of my favorites.
I I met you at that Charlotte conference coming right out of the pandemic.
I was a first timer at at NIFA, and um I've been hooked ever since.
And uh I always look forward to to our interactions and and and running, you know, in our
time that we spend together at the conferences and I think you're doing I think you're
doing great things for the industry and I I look forward to seeing what you know what's
what's next for NIFA.
Uh I appreciate the perspective you brought to to our discussion today, not just about
NIFA and the equipment finance, but on leadership, community, and where things are headed
next.
This was a great conversation.
Uh and and everybody listening, thank you for spending time with us on the ACS portfolio
perspective.
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