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The stories from the places where people gather.
Dana (01:28)
And today we have Adrienna McDermott. She is the founder of Ava and the Bee, a marketing agency exclusively for wedding professionals that builds connections with dream couples through inclusive, results-driven marketing, copywriting, branding, and website design. As a formal bridal boutique owner, wedding planner, and florist with over 16 years of industry experience,
She now channels that insider knowledge into creating marketing that actually works and brands that stand out from the competition. You can follow her at Ava and the Bee on Instagram for weekly marketing insight and tips and also following about your bread obsession, you know. That's another thing you'll get on Instagram. Yeah, a hundred percent.
Adrienna (02:06)
Yes. It's something you didn't ask for but you're gonna get.
Dana (02:11)
when she is not diving deep into analytical reports, you can find her doing embroidery on the couch with her cat, the bee in her business, giving belly rubs to her dog Ruby, reading romanticy or watching Formula One. Welcome to the show.
Adrienna (02:25)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.
Dana (02:28)
Yeah, I did not realize that you had this whole obsession with cinnamon raisin bread. Like until we met
Adrienna (02:35)
Yes.
Dana (02:37)
or until not until we met, until it like a couple of times after we met and people were talking about it and I like, What is this? But yes, your obsession with it's Pepperage Farms, right?
Adrienna (02:45)
Yes, it's pepperage farm cinnamon swirl. I'm a little anti-raisin, but it is a cinnamon swirl. And
Dana (02:50)
sorry.
Adrienna (02:51)
no, it's totally fine. You didn't offend me on the raisin side. no, I literally started eating it in college because I was broke and so I was like, this is a delicious breakfast that doesn't cost money. And then now it's just like it's it's who I am as a person.
Dana (03:03)
Yeah.
Adrienna (03:03)
It's my personality, it's everything about me.
Dana (03:06)
I love it. Well what's so funny is I used to have cinnamon raisin bread every day of my life and as like a kid. Like that's w that was a thing my parents bought for toast and then it's really good if you make it with like as French toast as well. it makes really
Adrienna (03:17)
Yes.
Dana (03:18)
yummy French toast. But yeah. So fun fact.
Adrienna (03:20)
I always like I'll do
it. What people don't know is that I usually also have it with like a banana or yogurt or eggs, but I only photograph the toast 'cause I don't want people to think that I, you know, too crazy.
Dana (03:25)
Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah
That's fair. That's right.
Adrienna (03:33)
The eggs are on the side.
Dana (03:35)
I am so excited to have you today. It's always so much fun to chat with you and I think you have such great insights. And one of the things that when we were kind of chit chatting about, what we wanted to kind of talk about was you mentioning that the things you really love to talk to your clients is about focusing on
some really big things that are really important for this time of year. I know some of us are experiencing a little bit of a slower season. We're seeing this new generation of buyers. And so I know there's like a thousand things we can like talk about, but you narrowed it down to three and I'd love for you to for you to share what we're gonna be talking about today.
Adrienna (04:06)
Yeah, so definitely this is one of those things where we could do, you know, 47 episode
Dana (04:10)
Yeah.
Adrienna (04:11)
series on these new generations. But the big three are really clarifying what you do, where you're located, and are you for me? Which sounds really obvious until we get into it, I promise.
Dana (04:21)
Yeah.
Adrienna (04:22)
How does this work? And then honestly, the biggest one is can I trust them? Cause I think we forget that they are brand new to this and they really need to trust us to spend money.
Dana (04:34)
Yeah. So before we kind of get into all of this, I want how why why are you the authority on this? Like what tell us a little bit about how you kind of developed 'cause I do think you are the authority on this. I think when you talk to like educators and people in the industry, you are the one that consistently that I feel like speaks so clearly and really has the insights I think other people don't
Adrienna (04:58)
Yeah, so I would say honestly it's just being in the in the weeds about it. So
Dana (05:04)
Mm.
Adrienna (05:04)
I am one of those people where I am on the Reddits, I'm on the Facebook groups, I'm on Discord channels. I am quietly marketing researching every single day. So my clients don't have to. And so so much of this that I think vendors don't always realize is our couples are out there telling us exactly what they want.
We're just not listening. And I know it's because we don't have time to be on these platforms and listen. And so I do that. And that's honestly how so much of this comes across and and so much of the research I do and why I'm able to talk about it is not just with my background in weddings, not just because we work with
you know, wedding vendors exclusively at my agency, but because I am in those threads, I am actively trying to find exactly what they need from us as an industry and then kind of being able to explain it to you guys as simply as possible.
Dana (05:55)
I love that and you are absolutely right. I don't have time to like be on Reddit, but I know I need to be on Redd. Like I know that that's where they're talking and so I love it that you're like, Hey, like I will do all this research for you and then I'm gonna truncate it and tell you what you need to know based on what people are saying. So thank you for doing the
Adrienna (06:09)
Yeah.
Dana (06:09)
hard work for us.
Adrienna (06:10)
Yeah. It's the t the TLDR too long didn't read. That's like my job is I will
Dana (06:13)
Yeah.
Adrienna (06:15)
spend hours and then I will then summarize.
Dana (06:17)
I love it.
awesome. So I obviously these these three big questions really came out of kind of what you're seeing on these different platforms and whatnot. But I'm really curious if you're seeing a connection, we talk about like the slow season and the new generation of buyers, like how are these two things connected when it comes to what we're talking about today?
Adrienna (06:39)
Yeah, I they really are so connected because we have to remember that we are leaning into a newer generation of buyers and things shift just like when millennials got married, everything changed and they were like, my gosh. But honestly, I kind of want to frame it a little bit less as not just a slow season, but more of like a trust recession. Because for
Dana (06:57)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (06:58)
years wedding vendors relied on visibility, right? If couples found you, they liked your picks.
They saw a few good reviews. They'd usually inquire, right? Like we didn't really have that issue with getting them in our inbox. It was, you know, okay, I got lots of leads. But we are seeing a shift in how couples are actively searching, how long they're taking before they reach out. And they're also experiencing, I mean, economic uncertainty, information overload. I mean, another big change is that.
Even pre-pandemic, a lot of vendors didn't always have a website or they had a single page and it didn't matter. We all have it now, right? Our our
Dana (07:35)
Mm.
Adrienna (07:36)
playing field is more even than it was pre-pandemic. And so we are all pushing out this information, right? We're all like, get the content, get the behind the scenes person. And so we shove this information down their throat and we give them endless options. And then they have a fear of making an expensive mistake because they're on Reddit reading horror stories of I hired this photographer and I never got pictures, right?
Dana (07:55)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (07:58)
They're also in this AI generated world where we're starting to wonder what's real, what's not. And while this hasn't quite hit the industry a ton, it needs to be something we're aware of is
Dana (08:09)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (08:09)
styled shoots and producing these big things and then not explaining what the actual budget is, is is hurting us. And so as
Dana (08:16)
Yeah.
Adrienna (08:16)
a result of all of this, right, like all of these things, they're taking longer because they have more availability. When we have more availability, they become the driver's seat as a buyer.
In 2022, 2023, that big boom, you didn't have a lot of availability. So they had to book you right away. It was like literally, if you don't book me, this is my last spot of the year. We're not there anymore, right? We're like Yeah,
Dana (08:35)
Right. Right. No, we are not.
Adrienna (08:40)
exactly. We're like, I technically have 16 weekends available.
Dana (08:42)
Yeah.
Adrienna (08:43)
So they have more options, so they're gonna take time because there's no pressure, right? And they're going on these Facebook groups and and they can't find your pricing. So they're asking about you and they're doing all of these things and it's just taking longer. So I think the biggest thing is just considering
The buying habit is changing and it's making it feel slower for us because they're taking their time because they can. We're also seeing a really big shift in timeline. Like the number one thing I'm hearing is they're still plan, like I'm still getting leads for fall this year. Yeah. I and for venues, it's crazy, right? You're like, what? You don't have a venue yet? And they're like, no.
Dana (09:11)
Yeah. It it's so true. It's insane. Insane. Yeah. No.
Adrienna (09:18)
So, like the timeline, this whole you have to have twelve to eighteen months to get married, I think is just
changing. So I think it's kind of repositioning of woe is me, why is it slow? to being like, okay, the buyer's changing, the world is changing. We need to understand the pain points before we market to them. So that's kind of like the conglomerate of things that
Dana (09:37)
Yeah.
Adrienna (09:38)
we're seeing that's making it feel slower for
Dana (09:40)
Yeah.
Adrienna (09:40)
us.
Dana (09:41)
I love that. I am totally like I just love the I the whole concept of it that it's a trust recession because I feel that. And I think every consumer feels that across the board, not just in the industry, just in the way that we are like
when you're buying anything. Like it's a trust recession of Target.
Adrienna (10:00)
Mm-hmm.
Dana (10:01)
It's Walmart. It's all the things, right? Like 'cause you're like, why why
Adrienna (10:03)
Hundred percent.
Dana (10:04)
is this so expensive when you now know that the CEO is making billions of dollars? Like they can no longer justify the price hike, right? So that's so true. It all kind of trickles down into, when we see an event. So I love that. I'm gonna start using that phrase.
Adrienna (10:18)
Yeah.
Yeah, and like you said, it's it's it's not just weddings. Like this is
Dana (10:21)
Yeah.
Adrienna (10:22)
everything we're seeing is consumer shopping in general.
Dana (10:24)
Yeah.
Adrienna (10:25)
Like how often are you going online to buy something than going into the store? That
Dana (10:30)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (10:30)
changes how they're gonna even shop for weddings.
Dana (10:32)
Right. So true. Well let's dive in. So let's talk about that first thing that you said, looking at what do you offer, where are you located, and are you for me? Now we are mostly look talking to venues and whatnot. So
Adrienna (10:43)
Mm-hmm.
Dana (10:44)
why do you think people struggle to answer this question?
Adrienna (10:47)
I think it's because we're all too close to our business. So
Dana (10:49)
Mm.
Adrienna (10:50)
especially a lot of times as as vendors and venues, you assume they know you're a venue, right? You're like, duh, it's a building. It's a venue. This is why I'm different. Like I'm a historic
Dana (11:00)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (11:01)
venue in Charleston. Of course they know, but we're not. We have to remember that they don't know anything about us. They're looking at 14 other venues that might have similar style, that might all use the same word historic in your region. So if you're all using the same vocabulary.
it's a little hard to differentiate. We also forget that they don't know where you are and you might be having a lot more colder leads these days of people
Dana (11:25)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (11:26)
using like AI search, which I'll talk about in a second. But it sounds so basic, but the number of times and I know you probably feel this way, that I go on a venue's website and I can't tell they're a venue because they don't say I'm a venue in this city with this style. Like they don't
Dana (11:41)
Hmm.
Adrienna (11:41)
tell me. And so all we do as vendors is we post
Pretty pictures of pretty people doing pretty things. So a really pretty venue covered in flowers, you could be a florist. You could be a photographer. Like you all kind of look the same.
Dana (11:52)
True. Right. Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (11:56)
And so I think we have to really remember and take a step back and not be so close to our business. And remember, like, this person has no idea what I am. And so we need to make sure we're being really clear on exactly what we are and where we're located. And that's why the biggest thing.
Is on that top of your website. So we call it above the fold, like in a newspaper,
Dana (12:17)
Mm.
Adrienna (12:17)
but the very top section of your website before people scroll literally just needs to say what you do,
Dana (12:23)
There you go.
Adrienna (12:25)
where you're located. So, like historic Charleston wedding venue. Like it sounds so simple, but it is the
Dana (12:32)
Yeah.
Adrienna (12:33)
number one thing missing from venues websites, and it's the most
Dana (12:36)
Yeah.
Adrienna (12:36)
basic.
Dana (12:37)
It's I can totally see that though, because there's been so many times I've been on something like just trying to find a vendor and like you hear a name, like even think about like a a a name that's nondescript, right? You're like, Well what are what are they?
Adrienna (12:48)
Yes.
Dana (12:49)
Are are they a venue? Are they a photographer? Are they a planner? And especially now people are getting really creative with their names and having these like avant garde ones, you're like, but you're not even the name is not helping me out for this. But it's
Adrienna (13:00)
Nope.
Dana (13:00)
also super humbling because you you I guess on some level you want to believe, like, people know who I am. Like
I've done enough work on social media or whatnot. And I think that's the thing that I really have learned over the past year and a half of like, you know, opening new businesses and stuff like that is that even if you have like so much like success before, because we are in the industry, we don't really have repeat customers. Like
Adrienna (13:26)
No,
I was gonna say it is a new person every single year. That's the difference. Yeah, that's why
Dana (13:28)
Every every year. Yes.
Adrienna (13:31)
you can't be a name recognition like Coca-Cola because you don't have repeat clients.
Dana (13:34)
Ex right. Exactly.
And it and it really changed my perspective on like, so I am like constantly educating every single person. I cannot just assume that they're like, I know, da da da da like it's not how that works.
Adrienna (13:49)
No, and we have to also remember with things like AI search, AI and ChatGPT are looking for basic things like that too. Like it is not just your client, it's SEO getting found and it's AI search getting found. So it's really that simplicity in this type of marketing is kind of the easiest piece. And the best part of this is this is something you should be able to update like this afternoon. Like
Dana (14:10)
Yeah.
Adrienna (14:11)
go to your website and do it right now.
Dana (14:13)
Yeah. So something as simple as just like changing on your website, being able to easily identify, quickly see what it is that you do. Is there anything else that people can do to help with this kind of concept?
Adrienna (14:26)
Yeah, I think the other thing is to really be clear of what you're offering and thinking about kind of the benefits of it too. Because I think a lot of times when we're thinking about what we do and what we offer, so you're like, Okay, I offer an indoor and outdoor ceremony option.
Well, yes, I that's kind of a a standard usually at this point on every venue, but a lot of venues offer that, right? So you are now
Dana (14:46)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (14:48)
lumped in this pool. So I want you to think about what is different about your space. Is it the fact that the outdoor space has certain backgrounds, things that the other venues don't have? And why would they need to consider an indoor outdoor?
A weather backup plan. Like I think we have to simplify
Dana (15:03)
Right, right, right.
Adrienna (15:04)
things instead of just being like, we have indoor and outdoor ceremony options at our exquisite estate. Okay. I want you to instead say, don't worry about a weather backup plan. Like, you know, think
Dana (15:14)
Right.
Adrienna (15:15)
about the actual things that they're gonna want out of it versus like those type of specific things. Because when a venue does this really well, it communicates things that other people aren't communicating, which helps set you apart. So for example, you can be like, okay.
Let's say you're a venue in Colorado. So a Colorado mountain venue with breathtaking views for adventurous couples who want a destination worthy experience. It's a little longer, but again, Colorado
Dana (15:42)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (15:43)
Mountain Wedding. Like that's a specific client in Colorado, right? Who wants the outdoorsy versus the indoorsy.
Dana (15:45)
Right. Yes, for sure. Yep.
Adrienna (15:49)
The adventurous couple, so maybe you do more micro weddings. Like just think about it in that sense of like
I need to be as clear as possible that I am a good fit for this person and I'm not a good fit for the other person. Cause I think sometimes as venues, naturally we want to be a good fit for as many couples as humanly possible, but you also have limitations as a venue, right? There's
Dana (16:08)
Mm.
Adrienna (16:08)
certain types of couples and weddings you can't do. So just making sure it's really clear too. Because I've worked with venues who are smaller and they try to act like they have this huge space. And I'm like, no, let's lean into the fact that
It's a smaller venue. So you have smaller
Dana (16:20)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (16:21)
weddings. Like that should be more of what we're leaning into than trying to be what all the other venues are.
Dana (16:26)
Yeah, I've actually like really learned this with one of one of the venues I have. It has an indoor space and it really maxes out at a hundred and twenty seated. Like the old owners were like said you could do one hundred and thirty, hundred and thirty five, but that's like really uncomfortable and a hundred and twenty is even not like ideal. but that hundred to hundred and twenty is like really the perfect like number. It's great for like the ceremony,
Adrienna (16:47)
Mm-hmm.
Dana (16:48)
it's great for the cocktail hour, it has great rain backup, all that stuff.
But we struggled so much when we first started because we wanted to appeal to everybody. We're like, yes, that is for seated, but we also could have a three hundred person cocktail reception, which we can. That's not not true. But the reality is is in living in the south, in a very southern city, people don't want that. Like the only people that want that cocktail reception are corporate clients. They're Christmas parties, right? They're not actually weddings. And so I felt like we were it's almost like you were trying to advertise to everybody, so we were getting nobody.
Adrienna (17:20)
Mm-hmm.
Dana (17:20)
and
then once we finally started like really honing in, okay, this is what we want, this is who we who we can serve, then we started getting more qualified leads, better bookings and whatnot. So I'm curious, like, and that took a couple months for me to figure out, and I think I figured it out really quickly because I have the experience that I have. What if you're a new venue and you're really not honestly super sure about like who you serve because you haven't really served anybody before? what's the advice you have for someone to approach that scenario?
Adrienna (17:49)
Yeah, so I kind of have two little p pieces of advice. So if you're someone who is just like, is does does do I make sense? Like I've done weddings, I think I understand, is I always call it I actually was talking to Mark Chapman the other day and he called it like the mom test. Like send it, send your website to someone who knows you but doesn't really know what you do. We all have those people, whether it's our parents
Dana (18:09)
Mm, yes.
Adrienna (18:10)
or our friends, and literally ask them, like, can you tell me what kind of venue I look like?
Dana (18:15)
Mm.
Adrienna (18:15)
And get their raw honest feedback because the amount of times that's that's gonna give you like is essentially
Dana (18:20)
Yeah.
Adrienna (18:20)
what an a stranger off the internet is gonna be looking like is like
Dana (18:23)
Right.
Adrienna (18:24)
cause they know you own a venue, but they might not honestly know the terms, right? And
Dana (18:27)
Right.
Adrienna (18:28)
And pay attention to the words they use. So that's also for the newer venues. So let's say you're someone, you're like, I don't 100% know. Have people in your life look at it that are not in our world. We often turn to our peers, which is amazing, but they're gonna use language that our couples don't use, right? They're
Dana (18:42)
Yeah. Right.
Adrienna (18:44)
gonna use these big fancy words that our couples would never use. Have
Dana (18:47)
Right.
Adrienna (18:48)
a handful of people look at it and literally say, How would you describe my venue? And those are the words you use. You don't use the words your friends don't. You use the words
Dana (18:53)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (18:56)
that these people do because that's what they're searching.
Right? Like
Dana (18:58)
Yeah, right.
Adrienna (18:59)
that is what you do, and that's where you start, is you just have people in your life use basic terms, and that's actually what your venue is. We can add the fluff in later, right? We can
Dana (19:08)
Right.
Adrienna (19:09)
add the storytelling fluff in your website later and
Dana (19:12)
Yeah.
Adrienna (19:12)
in your social media. But for now, have someone just give you the raw, honest what kind of venue you have. And those should
Dana (19:18)
Yeah.
Adrienna (19:19)
be the words that guide you.
Dana (19:21)
I love that. That's such great advice. Totally gonna do that actually now. I wrote down a lot of notes here.
Adrienna (19:23)
Yeah. Yeah, 'cause like you'll send it to your phot Yeah,
you'll send it to your photographer friends and they mean well, but they know you too much, right? I need these to be people who don't really know what you do. They're the best critics.
Dana (19:31)
Yes, they do. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
It's it's the it's hundred percent the mom friends. It's the moms of your kids
Adrienna (19:38)
Yes.
Dana (19:39)
friends who like kind of on on some level know that you own this thing, but they know nothing about it. And that's exactly
Adrienna (19:46)
Yes.
Dana (19:46)
I love that, the mom test. Okay. I'm gonna do that. Yeah.
Adrienna (19:49)
Because we need to keep it as simple as possible to build upon it.
Dana (19:52)
Yeah, for sure. So
Let's s talk about the next one. You one of the things you mentioned was how does this work? What what do you like that could mean a thousand different things. Like how does this work in terms of contact, booking, plan like what like what are you thinking about when you're s when you said that?
Adrienna (20:11)
Yeah, so I think the biggest thing is again, as a vendor and as a venue, we kind of assume they understand the process of being of hiring us. So I tend to think of what exactly is the next step after your website or your inquiry process. Because there's twofold. Problem, we see kind of see two main problems in this bucket, which is why I wanted to talk about it. We either don't tell them how it works.
Right? We keep everything a little more secretive. Or we give them too much and we give them
Dana (20:41)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (20:43)
47 pages and our website have 15 drop-downs and every single space has a 47 check. Like we either do nothing and we're like, I don't know, figure it out. Or
Dana (20:46)
Mm. Mm. Gray. Or too much. Yeah.
Adrienna (20:54)
we're like, my god, my god, here's everything you've ever needed to know. And the answer is we don't want either, right? We want to keep it a little bit above. So
Dana (20:57)
Right. Right. Yeah.
Adrienna (21:01)
the biggest thing is we just want to think of the next few steps in the process. So exactly what happens.
After I inquire. And again, as simple as what happens, because you also have to remember that a lot of times these buying decisions are more than one person. And so you're
Dana (21:17)
Right.
Adrienna (21:17)
going to have the one person who has a lot of questions and you're going to have the other person who's like, just tell me what to do. So typically, what I mean by that is where we're going to have how this works. I want you to on your website have some kind of process section that literally says, after you inquire.
We will send you. Like, I need it to be basic. Cause again, some people need that hand
Dana (21:36)
Right.
Adrienna (21:37)
holding, right? Like they don't know. So after I inquire, we are gonna reach out via email or text, whatever preferred you said you wanted.
Dana (21:44)
Method, yeah.
Adrienna (21:46)
And then we're gonna send you some information and allow you to schedule a tour. This is what to expect on a tour. Like we're gonna, it's an hour-long tour where you can ask any question. Like, again, doesn't need to be
Dana (21:56)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (21:56)
like a 47-page blog about how your
Dana (21:59)
Right.
Adrienna (21:59)
tour works. Just a simple, like, we're gonna go on a tour. It's gonna be great.
Dana (22:02)
Yeah.
Adrienna (22:03)
The tour, like we're gonna send you this. So, again, like really clear steps. I want you to think of every step. How can I summarize it in like two sentences? Because again, this is just enough info to get them. Okay, so we're gonna go on a tour and we're gonna do this. All right, it's not too overwhelming, it makes them feel a little bit more planning. It's also because we know a lot of younger clients have parents, like that's
Dana (22:22)
Yeah.
Adrienna (22:22)
another thing I'm hearing is their parents are more helicoptery than millennial parents. And so, again,
Dana (22:26)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (22:27)
this is for mom and dad who
Dana (22:29)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (22:30)
have the budget to say, okay.
We're gonna do this, we're gonna do that. And then that's like nice and simple on like a website. And then whenever you have an email, that's when you can expand it. So let's say you have like a nice inquiry sequence. That's when you could maybe send a blog that's like, here's what to expect on your tour. Before they go on the tour, I want you to have an email that says here's what to expect. It's gonna be 30 minutes. You're gonna
Dana (22:52)
Uh-huh.
Adrienna (22:53)
meet with so-and-so. I think one of the most frustrating things.
Is when you're expected to do something like go on a tour, but you don't know who you're supposed to be meeting, like that's stressful, right? So again, the
Dana (23:00)
yeah. So stressful.
Adrienna (23:02)
basics of like you're gonna be meeting with Krista, it's gonna be a 30, you know, 60-minute tour, come with any questions. Like make it so it's super clear. Because
Dana (23:12)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (23:12)
if you don't have these types of answers available, they'll probably not want to book anything. They'll probably
Dana (23:17)
Yeah.
Adrienna (23:18)
not wanna get to the next step. And so that's kind of the step one.
The step two is to figure out like, do you have any FAQ on your website? That's a really big one for AI search and couples, is they probably have a lot of questions. So make sure we have some kind of FAQ. And then making sure we're being clear with things like pricing. Now, again, this is where venues sometimes will have every package known to man with every pricing, with every catering guide. We don't need that, right? We don't want to overwhelm them. Give them the general idea of pricing range.
Hopefully you have some set packages. I know sometimes you can't depending on your type of venue, but try to just give kind of the overview of the information so that way they want to ask more questions.
Dana (23:58)
Yeah.
Adrienna (24:00)
and I think that's where you can really lean into if you want to add more information. Usually what we tell clients is, okay, let's say you're the type of person where you naturally overexplain. You know who you are. I'm like that. Where I'm like, let me give you the actual 47 page process when no one asked for it in the history of everything. Okay.
Dana (24:09)
Mhm. Yeah. And the history, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Adrienna (24:19)
No, no, no. That is for a blog that we send later for the person who's interested, right?
Dana (24:21)
Yes. Yes. Right.
Adrienna (24:24)
Like, have a whole blog that talks about this that you can then send if you have a client who's like, well, how does this process work? You're like, cool, I have a whole guide. They probably don't need to know a lot of that stuff early. So just think about the stuff that you might be babbling too long. How can I create a separate guide and only send it to the clients that actually need that, right? The ones who want
Dana (24:41)
Yeah.
Adrienna (24:42)
to know certain things. So that's kind of the two biggest things is how does it work? Is
For venues, it really is what is the next step? Like
Dana (24:49)
Yeah.
Adrienna (24:50)
they understand it's a building that houses a wedding. So we don't need to explain every capacity option. We just need to explain, yes, yeah, like we have 14 different cocktail layouts. They don't care. They just need to know it can have
Dana (24:52)
Right. Right. Everything. There is a door, you open the door, yeah, right. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Adrienna (25:04)
a hundred people it fits. So again, like think about what are the things that we can do to keep it as simple.
Dana (25:09)
I can't tell you how many times like we're doing a project at the house, right? And I'm I have vetted a contractor or something, and I'm like, okay, I tell my husband we're gonna go with this person, and then he just starts peppering with the question. So, what about this? What about this? What about this? And then I get so frustrated and annoyed because I'm like, I've already done the hard work of finding the person. I did the work making sure I could trust them, and I don't know any of these other answers. And then it makes you almost start doubting.
all the work
Adrienna (25:36)
Yes.
Dana (25:37)
that you did before. And so I think about it from a per from a perspective, sometimes it's not the client that actually reached out that needs to understand that process. It's like you said, it's everyone else behind it who is going to question every step of the way. Well, did you ask this question? What are they gonna do this? And how long is this tour going to be? And what happens after the tour? And what do you have? Can you do like a a a date where you can like save the date or whatever the case may be? Like
And they start peppering you and it takes that kind of tension away in that planning process between those two people. Because I see that a lot, like between like a parent and a and like the person getting married, is the the parents are over there with their arms crossed, like, I don't trust you. Like tell me it's Yes. Yeah.
Adrienna (26:12)
Hundred percent. And
that's where that drop-off happened. Like that is because
Dana (26:16)
Yeah.
Adrienna (26:16)
they came into that environment without a process. So they don't trust you. And I think the biggest
Dana (26:20)
Yes. Yes.
Adrienna (26:22)
thing is that a lot of times we assume it's price. Like we assume I set my pricing guide, they're not interested because of my price. When it could often be ghosting just because they don't know how to make a decision. They don't understand.
Dana (26:32)
Yeah, yeah.
Adrienna (26:34)
Like you assume that they're gonna book something. Like,
Dana (26:38)
Uh-huh.
Adrienna (26:39)
you know, confused people don't buy.
They just get frustrated and then they
Dana (26:41)
Yeah. Yep.
Adrienna (26:43)
end up being dragged, like you said, dragged to the tour. And then they're
Dana (26:46)
Yeah.
Adrienna (26:47)
the ones in the corner with 14 questions. Like I used to work in bridal, I used to own a bridal shop and it was the same thing. There was always the one person who had the loudest opinion was who you're selling to. Yeah. It's
Dana (26:55)
Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent.
Adrienna (26:57)
it's never the person trying on the attire. It is always someone in the back corner.
Dana (27:01)
Yeah.
Adrienna (27:01)
But like we have to keep that person in mind too.
Dana (27:04)
Right. And I think what all we're talking about kind of bleeds into you started talking about little bit was the trust. Like understanding, like being able to e easily identify who you are, what you do, understanding that process, knowing that you're gonna be taken care of, that someone's even thinking about you, right? This that they're trying to make your life easier, all builds into that kind of trust. So that's the third thing you mentioned is can I trust them? And going back to the very first part of this conversation, you said we're in this trust recession. So I feel like this is the meat, this is the biggest
And the best part. So why why do you think trust is something that people are struggling with right now? But r really honing in on venues. Like what's the what's the number one thing you think that is like causing this mistrust?
Adrienna (27:46)
I think the biggest reason we're in this mistrust, and actually I don't believe it, I know it, is we were all not transparent. The wedding industry as a whole was so secretive, right? Like so secretive. We didn't have pricing, we didn't have clarity, we didn't do behind the scenes, everything was perfect, right? And so we created this narrative that we live in. We also all raised pricing considerably after the boom, and then we kind of didn't adjust for socioeconomic.
Out outlooks in the world. and so couples got mad because they're like, I can't even
Dana (28:17)
Yeah.
Adrienna (28:18)
find pricing. And then I show up and you're telling me it's nickel and diming. I think it's also a lot of the nickel and diming that a lot of
Dana (28:21)
Yes. Yeah.
Adrienna (28:24)
venues tend to do where you're not, again, you're not transparent with pricing. You're like, you're giving one price and you're kind of bait and switching it like a car salesman, where you're like,
Dana (28:32)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (28:33)
but it's also this, this, and this. So I think it's a it's a lot. And the thing is that what a lot of I think venues don't realize is that.
Your pricing is available online, whether you want it to be or not. And they're talking about it, right? Like
Dana (28:45)
All right.
Adrienna (28:47)
there are guides out there. Like I can go to literally Etsy and buy a guide of Austin wedding venues. I can go to TikTok
Dana (28:53)
Mm.
Adrienna (28:54)
and follow people getting married who go to do venue tours, who they'll do like 30 venue tours in Chicago, and then they'll post
Dana (29:01)
Mm.
Adrienna (29:01)
the pricing, including all the pricing you're not sharing, all the behind the scenes pricing.
Dana (29:04)
Right. Wow.
Adrienna (29:05)
So they are.
directing the narrative because we kind of let
Dana (29:08)
Mm.
Adrienna (29:08)
them because we're so secretive. So we definitely kind of built this thing. And so now we have to accept it. And now we have to be the ones that move forward and go, Okay, we have clear transparent pricing. We have clear, transparent processes. Like this is how the system works. And then that way they can start to begin to trust us. But it's really because we kind of built this secretive wedding machine and then
They got smarter and they all got phones and now and
Dana (29:33)
Yeah.
Adrienna (29:34)
now they're all way smarter than us.
Dana (29:37)
Yeah. Well
I think one of the things that I struggle with, and just to be super transparent, as we've been we've been kind of w working with the pricing and trying to figure it out, I'm with you, I hate being nickel and dimed. And so there's some there's a part of me that's like, okay, what if we just did this all in kind of number that includes all your labor, we're gonna add valet into it, as opposed to being like, here's your number, and then if you wanna add valet, and then if you have to add bartenders or whatever. And for some people they love it, and for some people they hate it because they want to see
Well, how much is actually valid? Is that something I really want? Are you forcing me to take this service that I don't really need? So like, how do you approach that from someone that has multiple options? Like, and just like you said, you don't want to put out, okay, here are the forty seven different, you know, factorial ways that you can get married here at this venue and like pay, you know, the for this package. So how do you provide pricing that is clear, transparent, but also not misleading at the same time?
Adrienna (30:28)
Yeah, I think there's a few different ways we can we can strategize it. So the first thing is to consider how can we lump things together early on as add-ons, right? So it might be something like, okay, this is the base price for a Friday wedding. Add-ons can, you know, can include, you know, a transportation atom or a valet atom. Like
Dana (30:45)
Gotcha. Right.
Adrienna (30:48)
we're kind of thinking of like bundled add-ons almost.
Dana (30:51)
Right.
Adrienna (30:51)
Like what can you lump together? Like
As an add-on. So that way instead of having like a
Dana (30:56)
I like that, yeah.
Adrienna (30:56)
10-line item, it's like a three-line item. And then if you need to break it down further because they're pickier, you can. But
Dana (30:59)
Right. Sure. Yeah.
Adrienna (31:03)
it's really just about giving kind of that basic
Dana (31:05)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (31:06)
breakdown. Because you're right, some people want all-inclusive and some don't.
Dana (31:09)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (31:10)
But I would say where the all-inclusive works the best is for the smaller weddings. So
Dana (31:14)
Mm.
Adrienna (31:14)
the all-inclusive is what's working the best for smaller micro weddings because they don't want to make decisions. So
Dana (31:20)
Right. It's why it's micro.
Yeah. Yeah.
Adrienna (31:21)
Exactly. So those Wednesday, Thursday, Friday or whatever your
off day. Some people Friday, they don't consider micro because it's so popular now. But let's say you offer that is that client that wants all inclusive. That's the client
Dana (31:32)
Right.
Adrienna (31:32)
that doesn't care about nickel and diming, right? They're just like, whatever, just give me a price. So I would consider
Dana (31:34)
Right. Whatever it's giving you a break. Right.
Adrienna (31:37)
also the client and the type of package it is. For the
Dana (31:39)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (31:40)
larger, like wedding weekends, yes, that's when you need to maybe have three add-ons. And you can explain. We can go through this in detail more, but here's the general language.
Dana (31:46)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (31:48)
Because couples also know pricing changes. Like, I get this
Dana (31:51)
Sure.
Adrienna (31:51)
a lot with florists because florists are like, I can charge five grand or I can charge 50. It's wild, right? Like, so it's the same idea where we're like, we're
Dana (31:55)
Right. Yeah, it's wild. Yeah.
Adrienna (32:00)
averaging out. They're smart. They know if they want certain flowers, certain time of year, it's gonna be more expensive. We're just trying
Dana (32:04)
Right. Right.
Adrienna (32:07)
to get the average buyer to meet in the middle, and then you can work with them where one on.
Dana (32:12)
Yeah. I love that I love the idea of lumping it because I think I struggle I struggle with that a lot because like again, I hate the nickel and dime and so it's like, you want this you want bistro lights and you want the twinkle lights and you want the easel
Adrienna (32:24)
Yes.
Dana (32:25)
and you like I'm just inclined to like, I don't care, just take it, right? But of course that's not making me money. I gotta actually like 'cause it costs labor to put it up and all that. But I love the idea of thinking about it in lump terms, like maybe it's the light package and it has all the lighting in it or something like that. That's s easy and it's yes.
Adrienna (32:36)
Exactly. Yes. And then it includes like the labor
and everything with it. So it's literally it's like it's a lighting package and they're like, Okay, cool. Versus
Dana (32:42)
All of it, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.
Adrienna (32:47)
like here's the seven lighting options. It's like you
Dana (32:49)
Exactly.
Adrienna (32:50)
pick one and then and that's the thing is I know cost might be a little bit different, but as that's when you can start averaging out and be like, Okay,
Dana (32:53)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Adrienna (32:56)
so it doesn't really matter what lights I put up. It's a roughly this cost and then that's
Dana (32:58)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Adrienna (33:00)
the cost that you charge.
Dana (33:01)
Exactly. Exactly. I love that. Very cool. I have like a whole page of notes I'm gonna take back to my team actually. This is so helpful.
Adrienna (33:09)
Good. Great.
Dana (33:10)
but I would love to of like wrap this up a little bit is if
Obviously we're about to we kinda went through our first big like big season. Like spring is, you know, has happened and for a lot of people summer is slower. There are some areas obviously in the world was where summer is super busy. But maybe if you're in your slow season right now, or maybe you just are like, I know that I need to get my shit together. what is the biggest mindset shift you really want people to take from this conversation?
Adrienna (33:40)
I think one of the the things is simplicity can be key, especially when it comes to like marketing your venue. I think another thing is just to really consider if other than the process of building trust, another way that I think we tend to again overlook, especially longer you've been in business, is thinking about do I have a solid testimonial base and am I using them in my marketing pieces? That's something that
a lot of times we get these great testimonials and then they just sit on WeddingWire or Google and we don't ever do anything with them. And testimonials
Dana (34:12)
Mm.
Adrienna (34:13)
can be one of the best ways you can
gain trust is to literally have someone else say how great you are. So
Dana (34:15)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (34:18)
I want you to like think about, okay, I probably haven't looked at my testimony in a while. Like I only look at them when they're bad, right? Like we don't look at the
Dana (34:24)
Yeah.
Adrienna (34:24)
good ones. We like calls today. And I want you to go through your testimonials and I want you to update your marketing. I want you to have your website updated and I want you to have testimonials on every single page. I don't want them to hide. I want them to be on every page because you can also really utilize that in your marketing. You can be like, wow, everyone's talking about how great our flexibility is. We should be talking
About that in blog posts and social media captions. Like, let your testimonials drive what you talk about with your company. Just like that test earlier where you send it to your your friends and say, What should I talk about? It's kind of the same concept. Our testimonials are literally the best way to grow trust and the best way to understand what they think about our company. And so think about wow, we're getting these praises again and again. We should have a whole Instagram campaign on this because that's what they
Dana (35:10)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (35:11)
actually want to hear. So really think about not just.
assuming things about your business, but really making sure you're pulling ideas and information from others around you because it's so easy just to get stuck in our head about our own business.
Dana (35:26)
So a bonus question that I didn't that you're not prepared for, but it's fine. What hap like do you one suggest people f like searching for their company on Reddit and seeing what people are saying?
Adrienna (35:38)
Yes. Hundred percent.
Dana (35:39)
Okay, how do you
change the narrative? Cause I know and we 'cause we and you
Adrienna (35:43)
Mm-hmm.
Dana (35:43)
have had this conversation before, that the worst thing you can do is get on and try to pump yourself up because you're you're gonna get sussed out as being either the owner in the industry or something. So what is the best way
Adrienna (35:52)
Hundred percent.
Dana (35:54)
to change that narrative if you're getting on Reddit and you're like, I don't like what people are saying?
Adrienna (35:58)
Really, really good question. So yeah, the first thing is just to know what they're saying about your company. Again,
Dana (36:02)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (36:02)
it's like kind of just being quiet and creeping. I think the biggest thing is so, because we've had, you know, this happen with people, is let's say someone had a really negative experience at your venue. I think that is the time where you can comment and be like, hey, I own XYZ venue. I'm
Dana (36:17)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (36:17)
so sorry you had this, you know, type of experience. This isn't what we want for you to experience. I mean, obviously it depends on what the experience was. Sometimes it is just
Dana (36:21)
Mm-hmm. Right. Sure, sure, sure. Yeah.
What it was, yeah, yeah. That's right, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Adrienna (36:26)
You know, we can't do anything about it. But it might just be something innocent that you might not have even realized was an issue.
And then reaching out to them. And I think a lot of times the biggest thing is whenever someone does a negative review, whether it's on Google or Reddit, it's just replying to it.
Dana (36:41)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (36:42)
Because I think the thing that hurts us the most is when we just let that negative review sit there without ever replying to it and explaining
Dana (36:47)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (36:48)
the the situation.
Because a lot of people, like I'm the type of buyer that when I'm looking at something, I go to the lowest reviews first and I see how they reply. Yes.
Dana (36:55)
Me too. Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (36:57)
So it's the same thing for Reddit. So think of it as the same idea is like instead of just letting it sit out there. I'm not saying, you know, obviously every case is different. So it might be something
Dana (37:04)
Yeah.
Adrienna (37:04)
where maybe you shouldn't, I wouldn't be getting back and forth in a battle. That's
Dana (37:07)
Sure.
Adrienna (37:07)
why instead of like on Google, you can leave a comment and say your side, fine. On Reddit, that's harder because you're opening it up to all these people.
Dana (37:14)
Yeah. Yep.
Adrienna (37:16)
Instead, what I recommend is doing the do you mind if I message you so we can talk one on one about this? That way you're
Dana (37:21)
Yeah, yeah.
Adrienna (37:23)
at least showing, you know, and you can do a little bit of your side. Like, you know, I'm so sorry you thought that that was the situation. Like
Dana (37:30)
Mm-hmm.
Adrienna (37:30)
you can kind of do a little bit of tweaking to talk about why it wasn't like that, but really focus on how can I talk to you one on one because that way all the other Redditors like, they're taking accountability, at least in some regard.
Dana (37:43)
Yeah, and I right. And that's the thing I think that I noticed
Adrienna (37:43)
Without starting this whole back and forth like he said she said.
Dana (37:49)
so much, like going through COVID and dealing just dealing with people, right, and and they're highly emotional states. and then also like in the last few years of venue ownership, like not everything went perfectly well because, you know, when you're dealing with the amount of volume we were dealing with at the Bradford, like there was a lot of there were a couple of issues, right?
And what I learned is a lot of it for people, like they just wanna be heard. And sometimes those bad reviews and how you handled it is actually how you get that client because that person feels like, well, I know that if something doesn't go right, that it is something that the owners, the managers, whatever, they're gonna do everything in their power to make sure that it is a hundred percent accurate and they're not gonna make that same mistake again because they obviously addressed it, talked about whatever. There's something really reassuring about that because I think
And then this is like old school like business too, where everyone's like five stars, five stars, five stars and five stars are great. love them, don't get wrong. But they're not reality. Like no one's perfect. No business is perfect.
Adrienna (38:48)
Mm-hmm.
Dana (38:49)
Like if you if you there is a business that has has only ever had five star reviews, like that's concerning to me. And like, are you legit?
Adrienna (38:56)
Yes. No, same.
As a yeah, as a buyer, I don't like it. I'm like, you're telling me nothing's ever gone wrong. Like things happen. People are human.
Dana (38:59)
No. Yeah. Yes.
Cause then it makes me think stuff does go wrong and they don't handle it So that's great advice. I love that. Yeah.
Well, thank you so much for being here today. I always like to end on your favorite event story. Now it could be a crazy story, something like I know that you've you like you have extensive background in like all the different areas of the industry, but just like a crazy story that you're like, I cannot believe this actually happened that you'd like to share.
Adrienna (39:33)
I have so many. Okay.
Dana (39:34)
Mm.
Adrienna (39:35)
I would say one of the craziest ones that always comes to mind is one of the first weddings I ever did, because of course that's how it works. So one
Dana (39:43)
Always.
Adrienna (39:43)
of the first weddings I ever did as a planner is they accused us of stealing the wedding gown. And yes, they accused us of stealing the wedding gown. And this was back when, you know, you could take PayPal payment. So I'm dating myself. This is like 2012.
Dana (39:57)
Yeah.
Adrienna (40:00)
but again new young I'm like 20 years old I don't know what I'm doing and so
Dana (40:00)
Yeah. Sure.
Adrienna (40:03)
we took PayPal payment and so they accused us after the wedding of stealing their wedding gown and then try to fight and then had PayPal side with them and take all the money
Dana (40:12)
my gosh.
Adrienna (40:13)
out and so that was my wildest story because we had to it convince PayPal why would I steal someone's wedding gown?
Dana (40:19)
Yeah. Wedding dress.
Why?
Adrienna (40:22)
Like
they like, no, you stole it from the bathroom. Like after we because she changed, and I was like,
Dana (40:26)
Uh-huh.
Adrienna (40:27)
it was just wild because it was I was so young and naive to be like, I'm so sorry, you think I did what? And then realizing that, you know, people are crazy. But
Dana (40:35)
Yeah.
Adrienna (40:35)
yes, that was one of my wildest stories was being young and then having to like fight PayPal and to be like, we didn't steal the wedding gown. Like we have we own our own shop, we have no desire to have this gown.
Dana (40:47)
Right.
Adrienna (40:47)
Like
in our contract, we are not responsible for things left behind. Like if they left
Dana (40:51)
Yeah.
Adrienna (40:51)
it at the like we called the venue and they're like, We don't see a wedding gown. I don't know what you're taught. There's no wedding gown here. But she ended up begin doing something with every single vendor to get PayPal to give her the money back. So our excuse was the wedding gown. The florist, she said, never showed up, stuff like that. And so it became
Dana (41:07)
wow.
Adrienna (41:07)
this like six-month of being like, No, there's flowers there. So the florist did show up
Dana (41:11)
Yeah.
Adrienna (41:12)
because there's flowers per the photos. So
Dana (41:14)
That's crazy.
Adrienna (41:15)
That was just like one of my early introductions and I don't know why I still did weddings after that. Like why after one of my
Dana (41:20)
Yeah, right.
Adrienna (41:22)
first couple weddings I ever did I chose to then keep going, I don't know. But I was
Dana (41:27)
Yeah. It's
Adrienna (41:30)
like, this is fine.
Dana (41:31)
yeah. It's just I think it's that feeling of like I gotta try it one more time. Maybe this was a one off and you realize no, in the industry people are just crazy, it's not a one off. This is just how it is.
Adrienna (41:42)
No, I know, but I always like look back and I'm like, what was I thinking? Why did I keep going? That was one of my early
Dana (41:46)
Yeah.
Adrienna (41:48)
introductions to the industry.
Dana (41:50)
Well, I'm glad
that you did because now you're here imparting all this knowledge on us. It worked out. Yeah. Okay.
Adrienna (41:53)
Yes. It worked out. Yeah, and I will say for the record, I did not steal the wedding gown. I
No desire.
Dana (41:59)
Never thought a moment for it. All right. Well thank you so much for your time today. It has been so insightful and I cannot wait for everyone to hear all this amazing wisdom that you have bestowed upon us and I'm definitely taking it back to my teams for sure.
Adrienna (42:13)
Thank you so much for having me.
Dana Kadwell (42:15)
Thank you so much for joining us for Gathered Here. To learn more about my new properties, be sure to follow us at McAlser Leftwich and at the Graham Mill. If you want to stay in the loop for all things Hustle and Gather, the venue masterclass, or our mastermind group, be sure to follow us on Instagram at Hustle and Gather. And for updates to the podcast and see all the fun things we're going to be doing this year, be sure to follow at Gathered Here Podcast. I'm your host, Dana Cadwell. Join us next time on Gathered Here.