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You wouldn't build a house without having the plans reviewed or drawn up by an architect? Why do so many people choose to landscape their yard without the advice of professionals? Let's talk about it.
Show Notes
[00:00:20] Keith:
[00:00:33] Keith Ramsey with garden supply company. I've got Steven Petrilliac here who works with Garden Supply CO as well. He manages our nursery. Today, we want to bring people up to speed on the art and the science of landscape design. The importance of getting good advice before you start to spend money and make sure that the money that you're spending is investing money in your property and not just throwing it down the drain.
[00:00:59] picking the right plant for the right location. There's so much science behind plants. There are plants that need to be in the shade, but need to be wet. There are plants that need to be in the shade. that need to be dry. There are full sun plants.
[00:01:13] There are plants. That'll cover both of those ranges, but if you go in and you invest in 10 or 12 plants for a screen planning and you put a full sun plant in the shade, in the end, you've basically got nothing. And then just, getting good sound advice, working with a professional somebody that you know, is going to back up what they're, if they're installing it or if they're making recommendations that they're going to guarantee those plants and follow through.
[00:01:36] I had a customer the other day that actually did the consult with us and ran into somebody in the neighborhood, decided they were going get a second quote from them, got the second quote. And it was the exact same price as what we were had quoted, but the guy was there and we've done multiple projects for him.
[00:01:54] And they're a really good customer, he just decided to pull the trigger. He liked the guys, he seemed nice. The guy came in and put in a few plants. He spent a couple of thousand dollars and the plant dies when he called them back for the warranty, he didn't warranty it.
[00:02:09] They don't warranty plants, it's we sell bees and because bees are flying insects, we don't warranty them, plants are main business and we feel like that, know, if you get the right person, the right plan and you get it in the right spot, that we can warranty it.
[00:02:23] And we do warranty, all of our trees and shrubs for a year. He came back to us and he was, very discouraged. He couldn't understand why this got in warranty, his plants. And I explained to him that, they're living beings. , it is easy to lose them.
[00:02:36] If it's not part of their business model, then they may not be able to afford to warranty, or they just may not want to warranty, but, picking the right person to do the job and then getting the right advice. I think
[00:02:49] Steven: there's a lot of factors that come into play when determining the right plant for the right spot.
[00:02:53] Like you said, if you're going for a screening plant and you're not well informed on how large the thing is actually going to get. There are some screening plants where you just want to have a drug, that's going to get 10 to 12 feet tall. So you wouldn't need something like larger growing arborvitae and that is a lot where people have come in and chosen something or a spot because they liked the color or they liked the texture.
[00:03:14] And it performs well where it is, but it gets to a point that has just completely outgrown its space. And then you've got to start back at square, one again.
[00:03:21] Keith: When you're talking about, a screen or a privacy hedge picking the right spacing is another thing.
[00:03:26] It's 10 feet works as good as seven. But it's going to be three or four years longer. Three feet, the plants they're going to crowd each other out and the root zones are going to compete. You can take a Burford Holly or a needlepoint, Holly, and you can put them three to four feet on center and the plan will thrive in that environment.
[00:03:44] You take something large, like arborvitae and you cram them together and they're going to age out twice as fast as they would. You've spent twice the amount of money going in, and it's going to last half the time, even though it's a perfect plant, maybe for the location. all of these factors and it's so inexpensive to have a landscape designer come out when you start factoring in, it's going to be a fraction of the cost of the whole project, it's always bothersome me when you pull up into a neighborhood, And somebody's piecemealed it. They put a plant here and a plant there, my yard tends to be that because I'm a plant person and I collect plants and I want one of these and one of those, a lot of times a new plant will come out and I'll plant three of them in the yard so that I can test them out.
[00:04:24] And I can actually give people definitive answers about that plant, but when somebody is doing design work, we're not recommending putting in a hundred different types of plants. We want to do it more like you paint a house, you pick a couple of colors or
[00:04:36] a piece of stone and a piece of Hardy board, and then this color, and then a trim color, you want it fairly simple so that it's big and it's bold and it's impactful.
[00:04:45] Steven: And that's where I think going back to the spacing is important. Not only of course, with screening or head rows, any bed that you're planning.
[00:04:52] I always stress to the customer over planning as an issue. You might want all this color, you might want all these different things. But before long it's easy to get overwhelmed and overcrowded in the garden. And next thing you're leading yourself to failure. So I always tell people, get all your bones in and that gives them the opportunity to come back seasonally and, find new things that they can add to the garden.
[00:05:12] And of course, yeah, we can go ahead and do a full-blown design. That's. Turnkey done. You don't have to add to it cause you got plenty of customers that just want to come in and they want their yard redone. And that's great, but doing it little pieces at a time and having somebody give you the right advice on the spacing so that you don't end up, killing yourself, trying to maintain it,
[00:05:33] if you do a $3,000 landscape install, it's less than $300 to do an on-site consult at your house. So it's 10% of the cost, but it's everything. As far as the outcome of the project you wouldn't build a building without having an engineer or architect look at it. It's the same kind of scenario.
[00:05:51] You're throwing money away when you don't have a good plan. You look at it, if it's a six or $10,000 job, it's you're down to three or 4% of the cost of the whole project and it's a project that's going to work, landscaping's never a hundred percent even if we're putting in, say like a hedgerow, We get one plant that's too close to a large tree and either gets too much shade or it gets too much root competition and it doesn't do as well as the others, but getting the right plant in the right place, we can usually make adjustments to that plant.
[00:06:20] More water, more fertilizer a little more light and we can have that plant come back around, but there's nothing a hundred percent about it. It's not as cut and dry as painting a house. And that's why it's even more important. To really get that advice. When Steven was talking about spacing, one of the things that you're, when you're talking about costs, he's talking people out of buying plants, you come in, you get advice, you look at a picture and he's saying, no don't put 10 plants in that space, put seven plants in that space, or put five plants in that space and give it a little time and wait because you'll be happier over the course of 10 15 years. And there are plants that have a 10 or 15-year life lifespan.
[00:06:55] There are other plants that you're planting forever. You put a Japanese maple and you really want to pick the right spot and then, and not have it overgrowth the space.
[00:07:02] Steven: going back to the, what you mentioned about the warranty is. For garden supply, in particular, it's nice to have that physical location for them to come back to.
[00:07:11] You're not chasing somebody down making phone calls, trying to see if they're gonna respond to you, but, after we help you with a design or planning, you've got a place to come back to. We've got a lot of employees that have been there for a long time. We'd become friends with the customers and just knowing that there's that relationship that they can trust.
[00:07:28] Oh, Hey, something's going on? With the design that we did or the install that we did and it's not hard to come back and find us and get the help they need.
[00:07:36] Keith: that's a big piece of where, the customer, I was saying that was having an issue with even getting a hold of when you're dealing with very small company and there are great small companies out there that this is not an issue.
[00:07:46] But when you're dealing with a very small company, There may be one person. That's the salesperson that also works on the install crew and they're the warranty person. And I'm not saying that's a negative all the time. Sometimes that can be a real positive, but when that person's extremely busy, Getting back to the warranty when you're in income, survival mode is not an easy scenario.
[00:08:07] Going back and cleaning up the mess of something that didn't go well is not as easy. And we've, we've been around 25 years. We've kinda gotten to the point where we've ironed out most of those scenarios and we've got, a warranty email, we've got a warranty person.
[00:08:21] It doesn't cost them any money to replace a plant when it's, it hasn't gone well, sometimes we'll have customers that'll come in and they're like the plant doesn't look as good as it was when it went in. And you have to explain to them that plants decline sometimes before they actually flush, they're losing foliage so that they can grow roots.
[00:08:36] It's not the paint on your car. It's not a vehicle. It's got to make adjustments in the environment and then it's going to push things out. So sometimes we're talking people into waiting longer to have that plant go ahead and flush out because the plant's already there and it's already rooted in.
[00:08:50] It's not a dollar and cents thing. It's just, it makes sense for the customer. Yeah. Yep.
[00:08:56] Steven: Same thing I dealt with the other day and, the customer came in and is great. Myrtle was leaning. And honestly, it just needed to be staked up because it's a younger plant. The blooms are heavy, it's leaning over.
[00:09:08] And he was really set on just going ahead and replacing it. It's already been in the ground for six months and I said, if this was at my house, There's no way I'm going to give up on that plant. Just we'll have to go back out there, rip one out, dig a whole new hole and then go through another six months of waiting to see what it's going to do.
[00:09:23] Cause most likely it's going to end up the same way you give it some time. Let it get established and it'll recover pretty easily.
[00:09:29] Keith: A big piece of it is just having people, like Steven said earlier, people ask me all the time.
[00:09:33] They don't necessarily know I'm an owner. But they'll ask me how long I've worked here. And if I liked working here and I'm like, I've been here 25 years. I don't think I'm going anywhere, Steven's been here. . 13 or 14. years.
[00:09:49] Steven: that onsite location, I've got a lot of customers that can come in that have gotten designs done by other companies, great designs. But they come in with their lists and they go, we don't know what any of these look like.
[00:09:59] So from start to finish whether you have a design already done or we're doing the design, or it's your first time at the garden center. Year-round, we stock up probably heavier than most, any nursery that I go to. And I do make it a point when I traveled to stop by any other local garden centers and check them out.
[00:10:15] We really pride ourselves on having all the inventory. We can have year-round so that when you come in looking for something or need the advice, you can put your hands on it, and see exactly what we're talking about
[00:10:26] Keith: because in North Carolina, 12 months out of the year. There's really not a time that you can't do something outside.
[00:10:33] There are certain plants we might recommend waiting until the fall or waiting until the winter. But we plant 12 months out of the year we probably lose more plants for over-watering than under-watering. So going into the summertime, you can always add more water to a plant and you can't necessarily take it away.
[00:10:47] When you're showing people plants and you're showing them inventory, and you're going through a plan, There, there might be, 15 really great plants that fit one situation. I need a two, two to three-foot plant for full sun in a dry location.
[00:11:01] You could show them easily, 10 to 15 plants. Just because somebody came up with a design and they put a plant in that location. That doesn't mean you're going to love it. And we show people, plants all the time and I'll say, this is a love it, or hate it plant. And they're like, I hate it. And I'm like, perfect.
[00:11:18] Let's move to the next one. Now we're looking at, from a design standpoint, I've shown them another plant that will fit that same environment. And they're like, I love it now. I'm like, okay let's make sure that. Texture and color, and everything go with the other two plants that are surrounding that.
[00:11:34] So you make a few adjustments to the landscape and they, and the people really end up it's like going into a fabric store, going to a furniture store. You're not going to know until you see exactly what you won't just be in there and having that plant right in front of you and being able to take plants and move them around and show them.
[00:11:51] Steven: giving the customer multiple options relates also to, these companies that are growers that do really good at marketing. And they've put this really cool name on a newer plant. But what they don't know is there are probably five or six other plants that are hard for the most experienced horticulturalists to tell the difference is, one it's just a name.
[00:12:09] They'll come in and they're pretty set on the design that they've got and they want that exact plant, but being open to the suggestion of, this is the same plant with a different name, everything's the same about it. Because you can't possibly get every single cultivar that's out there.
[00:12:24] Being able to find the substitutes that match the plan that they bring in is something we're really good at.
[00:12:30] Keith: So to wrap it up, I think it's key to not move forward until you've gotten good advice. If you don't know plants and design, you don't understand the science behind them.
[00:12:43]
Creators and Guests
What is In The Garden?
In the Garden with Keith Ramsey is a podcast aimed at helping you grow and maintain a beautiful and healthy garden and landscape.
Each podcast will focus on a new specific topic. Check back every two weeks for the latest episode!
Keith: Keith Ramsey with
garden supply company.
I've got Steven Petrilliac here who
works with Garden Supply CO as well.
He manages our nursery.
Today, we want to bring people
up to speed on the art and the
science of landscape design.
The importance of getting good advice
before you start to spend money and make
sure that the money that you're spending
is investing money in your property and
not just throwing it down the drain.
picking the right plant
for the right location.
There's there's so much
science behind plants.
There's plants that need to be
in the shade, but need to be wet.
There's plants that
need to be in the shade.
that need to be dry.
There's full sun plants.
There's plants.
That'll cover both of those ranges, but
if you go in and you invest in 10 or
12 plants for a screen planning and you
put a full sun plant in the shade, in
the end you've basically got nothing.
And then just, getting good sound
advice, working with a professional
somebody that you know, is going
to back up what they're, if they're
installing it or if they're making
recommendations that they're going to
guarantee those plants and follow through.
I had a customer the other day that
actually did the consult with us and
ran into somebody in the neighborhood,
decided they were going get a second
quote from them, got the second quote.
And it was the exact same price as what we
were had quoted, but the guy was there and
we've done multiple projects for for him.
And they're a really good customer,
he just decided to pull the trigger.
He liked the guys, he seemed nice.
The guy came in and put in, a few plants.
He spent a couple thousand dollars and
the plant dies when he called them back
for the warranty, he didn't warranty it.
They don't warranty plants, it's we
sell bees and because bees are flying
insects, we don't warranty them, plants
are main business and we feel like
that, know, if you get the right person,
the right plan and you get it in the
right spot, that we can warranty it.
And we do warranty, all of our
trees and shrubs for a year.
He came back to us and he
was , very discouraged.
He couldn't understand why this
got in warranty, his plants.
And I explained to him
that, , they're living beings.
, it is easy to lose them.
If it's not part of their business
model, then they may not be able to
afford to warranty, or they just may
not want to warranty, but, picking
the right person to do the job
and then getting the right advice.
I think
Steven: there's a lot of factors
that come into play when determining
the right plant for the right spot.
Like you said, if you're going
for a screening plant and you're
not well informed on how large the
thing is actually going to get.
There's some screening plants where
you just want to have a drug, that's
going to get 10 to 12 feet tall.
So you wouldn't need something like a
larger growing arborvitaes and that a
lot where, people have come in and chosen
something or a spot because they liked
the color or they liked the texture.
And it performs well where it is,
but it gets to a point that has
just completely outgrown its space.
And then you've got to start
back at square, one again.
Keith: When you're talking about , a
screen or a privacy hedge picking
the right spacing is another thing.
It's it's 10 feet works as good as seven.
But it's going to be three
or four years longer.
Three feet, the plants they're going
to crowd each other out and the
root zones are going to compete.
You can take a Burford Holly or a needle
point, Holly, and you can put them
three to four foot on center and the
plan will thrive in that environment.
You take something large, like
an arborvitae and you cram them
together and they're going to age
out twice as fast as they would.
You've spent twice the amount of
money going in, and it's going to
last half the time, even though it's a
perfect plant, maybe for the location.
all of these factors and it's so
inexpensive to have a landscape designer
come out, when you start factoring
in, it's going to be a fraction of the
cost of the whole project, it's always
bothersome me, when you pull up into a
neighborhood, And somebody's piecemealed
it . They put a plant here and a plant
there , my yard tends to be that because
I'm a plant person and I collect plants
and I want one of these and one of
those, a lot of times a new plant will
come out and I'll plant three of them
in the yard so that I can test them out.
And I can actually give people
definitive answers about that plant,
but when somebody is doing design work,
we're not recommending putting in a
hundred different types of plants.
We want to do it more like you paint a
house, you pick a couple of colors or
a piece of stone and a piece of
Hardy board, and then this color,
and then a trim color, you want
it fairly simple so that it's big
and it's bold and it's impactful.
Steven: And that's where I think going
back to the spacing is important.
Not only of course, with screening or
head rows, any bed that you're planning.
I always stress to the customer
over planning as an issue.
You might want all this color, you
might want all these different things.
But before long it's easy to get
overwhelmed and overcrowded in the garden.
And next thing you're
leading yourself to failure.
So I always tell people, get
all your bones in and that gives
them the opportunity to come back
seasonally and, find new things
that they can add to the garden.
And of course, yeah, we can go
ahead and do a full blown design.
That's.
Turnkey done.
You don't have to add to it cause you
got plenty of customers that just want to
come in and they want their yard redone.
And that's great, but doing it little
pieces at a time and having somebody
give you the right advice on the
spacing so that you don't end up,
killing yourself, trying to maintain it,
Keith: and as far as the cost
goes it's, it's a fraction
if you do a $3,000 landscape
install, it's less than $300 to do
a on-site consult at your house.
So it's 10% of the cost,
but it's everything.
As far as the outcome of the project you
wouldn't build a building without having
an engineer or architect look at it.
It's the same kind of scenario.
You're throwing money away when
you don't have a good plan.
You look at it, if it's a six or $10,000
job, it's you're down to three or 4%
of the cost of the whole project and
it's a project that's going to work,
landscaping's never a hundred percent
even if we're putting in, say like a
hedge row, We get one plant that's too
close to a large tree and either gets
too much shade or it gets too much
root competition and it doesn't do as
well as the others, but getting the
right plant in the right place, we can
usually make adjustments to that plant.
More water, more fertilizer a little
more light and we can have that
plant come back around, but there's
nothing a hundred percent about it.
It's not as cut and dry
as painting a house.
And that's why it's even more important.
To really get that advice.
When Steven was talking about spacing,
one of the things that you're, when you're
talking about costs, he's talking people
out of buying plants, you come in, you
get advice, you look at a picture and he's
saying, no don't put 10 plants in that
space, put seven plants in that space, or
put five plants in that space and give it
a little time and wait, because you'll be
happier over the course of 10 15 years.
And there's plants that have
a 10 or 15 year life lifespan.
There's other plants that
you're planting forever.
You put a Japanese maple and you really
want to pick the right spot and then,
and not have it overgrowth the space.
Steven: going back to the, what
you mentioned about warranty is.
For garden supply in particular,
it's nice to have that physical
location for them to come back to.
You're not chasing somebody down making
phone calls, trying to see if they're
gonna respond to you, but, after we
help you with a design or a planning,
you've got a place to come back to.
We've got a lot of employees that
have been there for a long time.
We'd become friends with the customers
and just knowing that there's that
relationship that they can trust.
Oh, Hey, something's going on?
With the design that we did or the install
that we did and it's not hard to come back
and find us and get the help they need.
Keith: that's a big piece of where, the
customer, I was saying that was having
an issue with even getting a hold of,
when you're dealing with very small
company and there's great small companies
out there that this is not an issue.
But when you're dealing with a very
small company, There may be one person.
That's the salesperson that also
works on the install crew and
they're the warranty person.
And I'm not saying that's
a negative all the time.
Sometimes that can be a real positive,
but when that person's extremely
busy, Getting back to the warranty
when you're in income, survival
mode is not an easy scenario.
Going back and cleaning up
the mess of something that
didn't go well is not as easy.
And we've, we've been around 25 years.
We've kinda gotten to the point
where we've ironed out most of those
scenarios and we've got, a warranty
email, we've got a warranty person.
It doesn't cost them any money to replace
a plant when it's, it hasn't gone well
, sometimes we'll have customers that'll
come in and they're like the plant doesn't
look as good as it was when it went in.
And you have to explain to them
that plants decline sometimes before
they actually flush , they're losing
foliage so that they can grow roots.
It's not the paint on your car.
It's not a vehicle.
It's got to make adjustments
in the environment and then
it's going to push things out.
So sometimes we're talking people into
waiting longer to have that plant go
ahead and flush out because the plant's
already there and it's already rooted in.
It's not a dollar and cents thing.
It's just, it makes
sense for the customer.
Yeah.
Yep.
Steven: Same thing I dealt with the other
day and, customer came in and is great.
Myrtle was leaning.
And honestly it just needed to be
staked up because, it's a younger plant.
The blooms are heavy, it's leaning over.
And he was really set on just
going ahead and replacing it.
It's already been in the ground
for six months and I said, if this
was at my house, There's no way
I'm going to give up on that plant.
Just we'll have to go back out there,
rip one out, dig a whole new hole and
then go through another six months of
waiting to see what it's going to do.
Cause most likely it's going to end
up the same way you give it some time.
Let it get established and
it'll recover pretty easily.
Keith: A big piece of it is just
having people, like Steven said
earlier, people ask me all the time.
They don't necessarily know I'm an owner.
But they'll ask me how long
how long I've worked here.
And if I liked working here and
I'm like, I've been here 25 years.
I don't think I'm going
anywhere, Steven's been here.
. 13 or 14.
years.
We've got a pile of staff that
have been there 10 to 20 years.
And having
Steven: that onsite location, I've
got a lot of customers that can come
in that have gotten designs done
by other companies, great designs.
But they come in with their
lists and they go, we don't know
what any of these look like.
So from start to finish whether
you have a design already done or
we're doing the design, or it's your
first time at the garden center.
Year round, we stock up probably heavier
than most, any nursery that I go to.
And and I do make it a point when I
traveled to stop by any other local
garden centers and check them out.
We really pride ourselves
on having all the inventory.
We can have year round so that when you
come in looking for something or need
the advice, you can put your hands on it,
and see exactly what we're talking about
Keith: because in North Carolina,
12 months out of the year.
There's really not a time that
you can't do something outside.
There are certain plants we might
recommend waiting until the fall
or waiting until the winter.
But we plant 12 months out of the
year we probably lose more plants for
over-watering than under watering.
So going into the summertime, you can
always add more water to a plant and
you can't necessarily take it away.
When you're showing people plants
and you're showing them inventory,
and you're going through a plan,
There, there might be, 15 really
great plants that fit one situation.
I need a two, two to three foot
plant for full sun in a dry location.
You could show them
easily, 10 to 15 plants.
Just because somebody came
up with a design and they
put a plant in that location.
Doesn't mean you're going to love it.
And we show people, plants all
the time and I'll say, this is
a love it, or hate it plant.
And they're like, I hate it.
And I'm like, perfect.
Let's move to the next one.
Now we're looking at, from a design
standpoint, I've shown them another plant
that will fit that same environment.
And they're like, I love it now.
I'm like, okay let's make sure that.
Texture and color, and everything
goes with the other two plants
that are surrounding that.
So you make a few adjustments to the
landscape and they, and the people
really end up it's like going into a
fabric store, going to a furniture store.
You're not going to know until you see
exactly what you want just be in there
and having that plant right in front
of you and being able to take plants
and move them around and show them.
Steven: giving the customer
multiple options relates also to,
these companies that are growers
that do really good at marketing.
And they've put this really
cool name on a newer plant.
But what they don't know is there's
probably five or six other plants
that are hard for the most experienced
horticulturalists to tell the
difference in, one it's just a name.
They'll come in and they're pretty
set on the design that they've got
and they want that exact plant, but
being open to the suggestion of, this
is the same plant with a different
name, everything's the same about it.
Because you can't possibly get every
single cultivar that's out there.
Being able to find the substitutes
that match the plan that they bring
in is something we're really good at.
Keith: So to wrap it up, I think
it's key to not move forward
until you've gotten good advice.
If you don't know plants and design, you
don't understand the science behind it.
Just go, if you don't get help
from us, get help somewhere,