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Adam Zickerman is joined by personal trainer, author, and speaker Simon Shawcross to discuss the state of high-intensity training methods across the globe. What are the different philosophies associated with high-intensity training and some of the commonalities regarding this protocol as practiced around the world.
Now listened to in 100 countries, The InForm Fitness Podcast with Adam Zickerman is a presentation of InForm Fitness Studios, specializing in safe, efficient, High Intensity strength training.
Adam discusses the latest findings in the areas of exercise, nutrition and recovery with leading experts and scientists. We aim to debunk the popular misconceptions and urban myths that are so prevalent in the fields of health and fitness and to replace those sacred cows with scientific-based, up-to-the-minute information on a variety of subjects. The topics covered include exercise protocols and techniques, nutrition, sleep, recovery, the role of genetics in the response to exercise, and much more.
51 High-Intensity Training Across the Globe with Simon Shawc...
Wed, 3/23 12:10PM � 37:25
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, exercise, high intensity, simon, workout, seconds, high intensity training, compound movement, minutes, trainer, physiology, muscle tissue, inform, fitness, hutchins, rigid, resistance training, performed, protocol, ken
SPEAKERS
Tim Edwards, Simon Shawcross, Adam
Simon Shawcross 00:06
Putting a little bit of reality into exercise and there are opportunities for people like you know, here inform in Manhattan to walk off the street and walk into a place where they're going to be really well looked after, and that that is replicated and can be replicated even more around the world. Can you provide your client with an experience that reinforces the positive impact of a high intensity training workout.
Tim Edwards 00:34
Hello, once again, inform nation we certainly appreciate you joining us here for episode number 51 of the inform fitness podcast, Tim Edwards here with the inbound podcasting network and a longtime client of inform Fitness. Today, the founder of inform Fitness in New York Times bestselling author Adam Zickerman is joined by Simon Shawcross. Now one of the first things you'll notice about Simon is that he flew across the pond to spend some time with Adam. He's a fellow high intensity personal trainer based out of London, in addition to his personal training, Simon is a weight loss coach and the co author of the book, the one diet, Simon can be found traveling around the world and speaking to corporations as a wellness expert. So in this episode, Simon and Adam will discuss the state of high intensity training methods across the globe. What are some of the different philosophies associated with high intensity training, and, of course, some of the common threads regarding this protocol as practiced around the world.
Adam 01:33
Hello, everybody. Welcome to the show. This is kind of cool. This is kind of impromptu, get together. I have with me today, Simon Shawcross. He's from across the pond, Simon works with a lot of trainers all around the country. He's a, he's an educator, and he has some really valuable insight, I think, because he talks to people like me, all around the world, people that are advocates for high intensity training. And because he's talking to so many different people, we'll be interesting to see their takes on high intensity training, and if there's any variation of a theme that we can learn from. So so welcome to the show, Simon.
Simon Shawcross 02:09
Thank you, Adam. Hi, Tim. Hi, everyone who's listening.
Adam 02:13
So Simon, as I said, you've been around the world interviewing entrepreneurs, high intensity enthusiasts, researchers, scientists, doctors, about high intensity training. We've just spoken about my philosophy, even you visited our gym for a while, we talked about what we do, how we do it. And my listeners, for the most part, know our approach. So what's different out there? What were the variations? What are people doing? That might be slightly different and interesting, how they approach whether it be from an exercise physiology point of view or training point of view, or maybe even from a business point of view? You can go wherever you want with this to start, and we'll take it from there.
Simon Shawcross 02:53
Okay, well, I think I'll start off with a fairly recent conversation with Dr. Doug McGuff.
Adam 02:58
Okay
Simon Shawcross 02:59
about exercise into middle age and beyond, and looking at things like myokines and the research that is being done about really, effectively a young science. It's only about 10 years old, now and just showing the impact that muscle tissue has on the human physiology and the fact that is no longer looked as like a sort of set of dumb fibers of the nervous system act on. Now we can look at it as a accretionary organ that has hugely beneficial effects and implications.
Adam 03:31
So muscles are accretionary organ. And one of those things that you just mentioned myokines,
Simon Shawcross 03:35
myokines absolutely yeah
Adam 03:36
so what are those things that secretes myokines,
Simon Shawcross 03:38
which in myokines just go out and send signals to other muscle cells. And in some cases, cells around the body telling them to do certain things, effectively telling them to get fitter and to get better and more capable. So that's that's one aspect of the stuff we're learning nowadays is we've always known how much of a positive impact this has. But we're also now learning how much of that positive impact and how that occurs. So we can perhaps explain it better in the future to our clients as well.
Adam 04:09
So what about myokines? So let's get into these myokines a littl
Simon Shawcross 04:12
sure
Adam 04:13
what was Dr. McGuff, talking about them and saying,
Simon Shawcross 04:16
effectively saying that when you cause the release of myokines, what you're doing is you're sending this very strong signal to the body to certain organs, to get stronger to get more capable to send in some some situations. an anti tumor message with myokines have been shown to have a positive impact on certain answers. So it really is how the human physiology responds to strengthening exercise at a cellular level. Okay, so we come from behind NC, both of us, we come from a high intensity training community. And I tell you in the past, this community has been quite rigid sometimes about what exercise is. And probably that's a very understandable reaction to kind of what goes as being fitness out there in the wider in the wider world
Adam 05:12
right
Simon Shawcross 05:13
Because you know, anything you can throw at a wall and sticks gets promoted and sold as exercise out there. And you know, if you've got if you go out and your purpose is to go and have fun, fine. But we also know that to create a really positive physiologic adaptation, we want the intensity to be high enough. And if we're going to make the intensity relatively high, we also want to do it safely. So we have longevity behind this. And I think what we've been seeing is that people were too rigid about high intensity training in the past, and people within the industry are really focused, can be focused on the minutiae, and arguing and infighting about the minutiae, a little bit too much. And once, that might be an understatement. But what is super refreshing, but I'm beginning to experience at the moment is that if you actually go and visit people who are putting who are on the ground, putting this work in, day in and day out, there are permutations, and there are things that people are doing, that are a little bit more open minded than perhaps may come up, come across online, that engage the audience, and keep people coming back through the door, consistently, week after week and year after year, whilst not diluting. What is what our core message is and that stuff is interesting.
Adam 06:40
I love it. I love it. Okay, so before we start getting into the variations that you're referring to, and the open mindedness that you're referring to, and what you're noticing is people becoming less rigid from those core principles that are out there. Let's talk about those core principles First, and what a rigid protocol might look like. And then we'll we'll expand from there.
Simon Shawcross 07:02
Okay, so I would say like a very traditional approach to this would be, let's say, one or two workouts a week, performed on relatively high end equipment. So you could say decent, Nautilus MedX, David equipment, performed, one set to failure, sets lasting 60 to 90 seconds, a workout totaling probably around about 20 minutes would be typical. And, and that's it. So a person walks in off the street, performs that routine with a trainer, they might stick to a very rigid tempo or cadence during that time as well. So a person might say, you, it's imperative that you move up in eight seconds and move back down in eight seconds on it on every exercise, and to every individual who walks through that door.
Adam 07:52
No cardio right,
Simon Shawcross 07:53
the traditional high intensity training interpretation would be you're getting your cardio right, whilst you're doing the workout. What I'm seeing now with some of the places that I'm visiting, is, let's take that example of cardio.
Adam 08:06
Yeah
Simon Shawcross 08:06
is that people are incorporating a more traditional cardio modality into the protocol too so they might have somebody on an exercise bike or, or a cross trainer, or even even a recumbent bike or a treadmill, if it's appropriate, and performing high intensity start interval training
Adam 08:29
on the bike
Simon Shawcross 08:31
Yeah, exactly. And so
Adam 08:33
so they're not doing steady state necessarily
Simon Shawcross 08:35
No, not necessarily, I'd say within the in the gym environment, that would be pretty much a no to the steady state stuff. They wouldn't have any
Adam 08:42
within the high intensity training community
Simon Shawcross 08:43
they wouldn't have somebody come in and sit, park their bum on the treadmill for 20 minutes or on the bike for 20 minutes
Adam 08:50
So they're doing intervals
Simon Shawcross 08:52
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
Adam 08:54
Separate from the weight training workout, or are they are they doing interval and doing the high intensity?
Simon Shawcross 08:59
That's a good question. I've seen it and know that being done both ways. So sometimes, a trainer will have somebody come in on, let's say a Monday, do it. Quite a traditional high intensity resistance or strength training workout, and then the client will come back in on another day of the week and do a 20 minute or a 20 minute high intensity interval training workout probably of which, no more than sort of 10 minutes about is is really intense stuff.
Adam 09:26
Right. So what what are you finding out is the rationale so what why are they deciding to break away from the rigid original? I mean, let's let's say, you know, the way Ken Hutchins originally laid, laid it out. Uh huh. Ken Hutchins, for those that don't know, he pretty much is the architect of the slow high intensity training movement. He named it super slow. It's basically lifting 10 seconds up originally was five seconds down because machines at the time had a little bit more friction than normal. Now the machines have less friction, a typical super slow protocol might be 10 seconds up, 10 seconds down, no room for any types of steady state cardio, stretching, flexibility, balance, none of that stuff in the way Simon described it, it was just five or six compound movement exercises to muscle failure one set, and you're done
Simon Shawcross 10:24
Yeah
Adam 10:24
So what? So back to the question? What is the rationale? What has been the rationale for people kind of moving out of that dogmatic idea?
Simon Shawcross 10:35
Well, I think it's probably probably twofold. One would be that people enjoy that kind of intense cardio, if we're going to call it that. And people, there's a demand for it, too. So you could be ultra strict in saying, my facility only does high intensity, strength or resistance training. And you could educate your, your clients, people who walk through your door saying that, that's all we do here. And you might find that some people don't come back, because they are looking to engage in something like this. And if as a trainer, you can apply this modality safely and effectively or perhaps more safely than you could do or, or with a higher degree of respect, then might happen at other facilities, then why why wouldn't you and and it can serve a purpose to is it going to give you anything dramatically more than performing high intensity resistance training alone? No, I don't believe it would do. But I think for certain people, it's very appropriate because it helps them engage their physiology in a way that they find quite natural to do. And it gives them another another physiologic and psychological challenge, which is a value and I think you can't take the individual psychology out of the workout, there is always going to be that aspect. And if you're not tailoring to a to a degree, your workouts to your client, even within the resistance training side of stuff alone, then you're not doing the best you possibly can. for that individual. Now, it is a little bit contrary, it's probably the only exercise realm, our realm where it's controversial to say you might add in some high intensity interval training cardio, but I know that's something you've been doing as well here. Right?
Adam 12:39
Yeah. I've been definitely introducing for certain individuals, high intensity interval training for sure. And I asked you if it's mixed in during the workout, or is it a separate thing? Because I know what we're doing. I was just curious.
Simon Shawcross 12:53
I know, I've heard of it both ways
Adam 12:56
Yes. And we do it both ways as well. I find myself using the high intensity interval training with the types of people that don't seem to have a pulse. I, I can put them through like, you know, six or seven exercises and work out pretty darn hard for each one of them. And they walk out and say, Okay, thank you very much. And they zip out here like nothing happened. I'm like, Wow, if I did what they just did, I'd be on the floor like a puddle. But for some reason, I get them on that bike. And I do 20 seconds hard as you can on and then a minute off. And then I do that 2 3 or 4 times. And now that now there I'm peeling them off the floor, which is what I want to do. And so normally I'm incorporating with their workout within their workout. I also do a variation where I
Simon Shawcross 13:55
do you do that before or after the strengthening portion?
Adam 13:58
I do it after the strengthening for I want them to put as much as I can into the strengthening portion portion and stimulate those muscles for muscle growth. And then and then I like to push their energy systems, if you will, by throwing them on the bike at the end. Very rarely will I do it first. Because if I do intervals with them first and then they try to get them down the leg press or anything for that matter. You know, they're there. They're useless. Basically, there's another type of person different from that, that I also do intervals with in a different way. And those are the people kind of like myself, actually where I'll do five compound movements. Six, maybe, maybe add in a simple movement, you know, I just have this thing with bicep curls because I'm self conscious about my small biceps. I'm always throwing in bicep curls. It's an irrational thought, of course, but I do it. But I'm mainly doing a compound movement routine, and I'm pretty much wasted after five or six exercises. And I do that once a week. It turns out for me that that's nice for me once a week. But then I miss out because I get so blown out from just the big five. So maybe you need to give Dr. Mcguff, a plug, you know, the Doug McGuff, Big Five, after I do something similar to that I miss out on doing like rotary torso and back extensions, and neck extensions. And, you know, some AB crunches and things like that. And I feel like I want to do that as well. So what I do there is I'll do the rotary torso, I'll do low back extensions, do a routine like that. And then I'll do a set of intervals, separate from the major compound movement exercise routine, because I'm not really spent after I do.
Simon Shawcross 15:42
And that's been done on a second day in the same week?
Adam 15:45
no, that's the second day, in the same week, exactly within the same week. So So I'm doing set of intervals once maybe sometimes twice a week, if I'm stressed out and you know, intervals for me, you know, I'm literally doing 20 seconds on a minute off three or four times. But the 20 seconds I have on is I do it on a bicycle, and it's at a very high tension at very high RPMs. And to maintain 100 RPMs at the highest tension I can handle for 20 seconds. You know, it takes everything I got to keep that 100 from going in to 99. Oh, my God, you know, it seems the first 20 seconds, you know, pretty easy to keep it above 100. But you know, I keep that same tension a minute later. And I do it again. Wow. I mean, after 10 seconds, I'm already fighting to keep it above 100 rpms. And then the third and fourth time I do it. Probably the last 10 seconds of each of those. I'm like at 95 98
Simon Shawcross 16:43
bleeding off
Adam 16:43
Yeah, the bicycles rocking back and forth. I'm like putting the whole body into it horrible form at that point. And when I'm done with it all, it's so much gasping for air. And that relieves a lot of stress for me, quite honestl
Simon Shawcross 17:02
yeah, I'm with you. And now I recently set myself a challenge of running, running 800 meters fast as I can. And I'm just started doing it. I'm working working my way up a, what I had forgotten is how long the distance 800 meters is when you're trying to run at your maximum capacity for that, that length. And for me, that takes me around about three minutes. And that's like pushing it like that. It's hard. And then so what I'm doing
Adam 17:31
what is 800 meters about a half a mile? We're Americans here.
Simon Shawcross 17:34
800 meters. What's the conversion on that? I don't know. That's, that's Yeah, about, no exactly half a mile. how from I pretty much exactly half mile.
Adam 17:41
You said three minutes. And All right, good. That's pretty impressive. half mile three minutes,
Simon Shawcross 17:47
well, is I'm looking to get under three minutes. That's, that's my goal. So what I'm doing at the moment is breaking that down into smaller portions. So I'll do a minute and a half, take two minutes off, do another minute and a half look to get that pace as high as possible. And then I'm going to conjoin those back together again. But But what there is, and I get from it is a bit of a rush and a bit of a bit of pleasure of using my physiology and its capacity in a different way from resistance training or strength training.
Adam 18:17
Do you still call it exercise? We call that recreation out of curiosity? Because we you know, in our traditional mantras and dogma, right, we say that running is really a recreational pursuit, and doesn't have the exercise value as high intensity strength training does.
Simon Shawcross 18:33
Okay. We seems like we brought up Dr. McGuff several times already. So I'm gonna bring
Adam 18:39
what the hell
Simon Shawcross 18:40
it up again, let's let's do that again. Cuz he's got some great perspective.
Adam 18:44
Hey Doug, if you're listening to this, you got to give me some plugs, too.
Simon Shawcross 18:48
So, you know, it's like he what he what he said to me was like, if you're ever in a really bad situation, it would be good to be able to run as fast as possible out of that situation. And it reminded me of a martial arts mentor of mine as well who like a young kid at the gym came up to him and he's a mixed martial arts guide, this instruction, really good at all have a sort of attacking and defensive arts that would be used to be you know, in the octagon or whatever. And the kids said, like, I really want to be at my best for the street. I only want to learn the stuff that's most appropriate for if I get up in a street fight. Yeah, what should I do? And he said roadwork
Adam 19:29
run right. I love it. Yeah, I agree. I can't even know I'm in that camp of people that have I was definitely a Hutchy, you know, they call Hutchys people that just kind of blindly follow Ken Hutchins, original philosophy. It's nothing personal against Ken Hutchins. I mean, I kind of feel I kind of feel we need we all needed as dogmatic and as rigid as Ken Hutchins is, was at least we all need people like that. You know, because like you said early earlier in the show, you know, there's so much crap out there that you have to regret. Yeah, you have to kind of it kind of reminds me of Frederick Douglass, you know, the abolitionists and how he was not willing to compromise on slavery at all. Whereas, and he had all these head to head combat with Lincoln, because, you know, he's telling Lincoln just abolish slavery. What, how hard is this? I mean, it's immoral, it's wrong. And he's like, Well, it's more complicated than that. And of course, you know, Frederick Douglass is like, there is no complication. He says, yes, there is, you know, the states rights, blah, blah, blah, anyway. Oh, ultimately, Lincoln was right. In order to have progress, he had to compromise and meet somewhere in the middle. And I kind of feel Ken Hutchins had to do that to, to, to just be so absolute about certain concepts, and to really make people think and get them pissed off and get them to create all this discourse to bring us to where we are now.
Simon Shawcross 20:56
Right
Adam 20:56
And here we are now. And we are all respecting and honoring what Ken Hutchins did for sure. But at the same time, we're realizing that interval training, the psychology of it, one size fits all, you know, the genetics and the phenotypes and genotypes that we experienced. And we're finding out about, you know, somebody needs a higher tol right, or lower Tol. Somebody like me, who does five exercises, I can't get off the floor yet I put somebody else who those same five exercises working out just as hard, you know, they they can sing an aria after that somehow, you know, you know, so like, obviously, there are differences, right?
Simon Shawcross 21:35
Absolutely, what I noticed is that as a as a long, lean, lanky guy who who's perhaps naturally adept, or more adept at running
Adam 21:44
right
Simon Shawcross 21:45
is like how many guys in the strengthening industry a bigger guys who naturally carry more muscle tissue? And it's like, is what you're saying people tend to be drawn to what they're good at
Adam 21:56
Right
Simon Shawcross 21:57
But unless you're capable of walking a mile in someone else's shoes and understanding Well, not quite work exactly the same way for somebody. Exactly. Yeah. For somebody else, you've got to be able to go okay, that physiology might need something adaptive, or, or something changing in the protocol from away, I would apply it to myself. And I think the great trainers out there, look at the person in front, when we were talking about this earlier, you were saying exactly what you do best is that you look at the person in front of you, you understand the exercise hitch history, when they were an American football player, you know, a defensive lineman or when a quarterback running around the field like crazy
Adam 22:35
I'm impressed with your football knowledge.
Simon Shawcross 22:36
just just picked it up as I go
Adam 22:40
Very good. Yeah. So So speaking, let's use you, for example, because you are the tall lanky type and I would size you up no pun intended. Again, I would size you up as more of an endurance athlete. You're lanky, tall, yeah. Are you naturally good runner
Simon Shawcross 22:56
reasonably. Like I'm not crazy. I'm not world like I'm not going to be sitting any any world records. And I'm far too old for that now anyway. But I enjoy it. And so I strength training supports that as well.
Adam 23:07
Well, I want to know what what how are you strength training? How are your tuls? Well, are you doing your exercise are you doing five are doing compound movements, what works best for you?
Simon Shawcross 23:16
for me, and I've really gone through the ringer of looking to do a little bit of everything, to see what works. So I've done a ridiculously low, low amount of like two exercises once a week. And what I can tell you from my physiology, personally that really doesn't do it. What I have found that that really does work for me is that I would do about eight or nine exercises, probably four, maybe five of those, probably four of those would be compound, and then the rest will be single joint. And what I'll do is I'll throw in the stuff, but you say you're unable to throw a throw in, in a single word
Adam 23:53
right
Simon Shawcross 23:53
but I'll pepper my full body workout with both. So like I get the neck stuff in there, I might get the isolation for biceps, triceps, in there isolation exercise for the calves, and so on. And I'll do eight or nine exercises in one workout. And I do that workout once a week and my tolls tend to be at the higher end, I just know that works better for me.
Adam 24:14
You said tolls, mean time under load, by the way
Simon Shawcross 24:16
right, So mine will be up at like, I look to make it 90 to about 100 seconds around about that ballpark. Or if I can do 100 seconds with impeccable form, then I'm going to put the load up but if I were to change load at 60, 60 seconds or 70 seconds doesn't work as well for me that that load time works great and some some of the bigger guys, they can't really get past that kind of load time. Right? effectively.
Adam 24:44
So yeah, I'm actually in between that. You know, if I was to workout, my workout for more than 100 seconds, 120 seconds. I mean it's torture for me. You know my t u L's time times under load are really in I'm really comfortable in the like 75 seconds range.
Simon Shawcross 25:02
I feel like I'm just getting beyond the warm up at that point, you know,
Adam 25:06
and this is what we're talking about mean, these variations you got a good trainer needs need to observe these things about people and make those adaptations. And that's why it doesn't make any sense to be so dogmatic and stick to one routine. I was like that in the beginning of my career,
Simon Shawcross 25:19
I think we all we all were,
Adam 25:20
I mean, I was definitely a Hutchy for sure. And I'm proud of it, you know,
Simon Shawcross 25:26
yeah, the other good thing. Just to touch on something you sort of mentioned earlier, one of the great things about that Ken Hutchins and superslow thing that happened. Think of all the people out there now from that Genesis, or you could take it back and even go to Arthur Jones
Adam 25:40
sure
Simon Shawcross 25:40
from that Genesis, then and now peppered all over the world, putting a little bit of reality into exercise. And there are opportunities for people, like, you know, here at inform in Manhattan to walk off the street and walk into a place where they're going to be really well looked after. And that that is replicated, and can be replicated even more around the world.
Adam 26:01
Yeah, it's amazing. And it started with Ken and he gets all the credit for that. And what's beautiful now is that we're all putting our own twist on it, you know, and adding our own insights and our own experiences. And it's been it's evolving beautifully and and, and although there's too much infighting about the these variations, and oh, I can't believe he's doing that. And I can't go negative only is that's been proven not to work, you know, and all the fighting and the insults and but if you can read between those lines, I personally see all that stuff. And although I might say why can't we all get along? I also smile and say, Look at this, this is great. I mean, Thank you, Ken Hutchins, for getting this going, quite honestly, and Arthur Jones, thank you for getting this going. And what I do is I just I'm a voyeur. Like I don't get involved in those fights, but I listen to them all and I watch and and I pick up things. Oh, that has that got. It's like watching great debates, you know?
Simon Shawcross 26:56
Yeah
Adam 26:56
And although you can get out of the insult insults, you know, you watch a great debate, you kind of make you come to your own conclusions about things and you bring them into your own experiences. And, and you you know, impart that to your client base and yourself. You know, so that's, that's why it's great having you on because you unlike, I mean, I talked to plenty of people in the industry, but you know, it's your job basically, to be going around talking to everybody.
Simon Shawcross 27:20
Well, another another person. I know, you're you're good friends with Bill DeSimone. The stuff that he's doing,
Adam 27:27
he's not such a good friend
Simon Shawcross 27:29
Okay.
Adam 27:31
I know him, no I'm kidding. I love you Bill.
Simon Shawcross 27:34
This stuff, but he's this stuff that he's doing. His work is kind of well outside what people would
Adam 27:42
Well, depends who you talk. It's all relative. Right? Well outside of what. Yeah, well, outside of like the classic Hucthins.
Simon Shawcross 27:48
Exactly, exactly. Yes.
Adam 27:52
Do you mind sharing some of what you've learned from Bill?
Simon Shawcross 27:54
Bill bills will happily use battle ropes in his gym. he says, you know, 90% 90% of the stuff you can do on battle ropes 95% of it's crap. Don't do it. You're going to injure yourself
Adam 28:04
Right Right
Simon Shawcross 28:05
He's isolated what he thinks is the approach to you with the battle ropes and and it keeps people engaged. And you might have young athletes coming in through the door who want to engage, you know, they see the football players, the MMA guys doing this kind of sexy lookin' hardcore stuff.
Adam 28:21
Yeah
Simon Shawcross 28:21
And if he can draw out a little bit about that actually works and is not dangerous, and will keep the client engaged. What's not to love about that?
Adam 28:30
I get it there for the same reason. We don't have those in our gym, and I don't think we ever will. But we have, you know, along the same lines that we have TRX straps do we use TRX from time to time we're doing chin ups and regular stuff like that bodyweight work we're doing bird dogs and floor work and we're and we're borrowing from other disciplines like Pilates and yoga.
Simon Shawcross 28:52
Yeah
Adam 28:53
And again, they're there were not like he said about the battle ropes about 80% of it is hogwash, how they use them. And 20% of it actually has some some value. You know, and you can't throw you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, as they say, and you shouldn't dismiss and a lot of people have but you said you're glad to see that people are opening up their minds and not dismissing it. It doesn't fit into their neat little idea.
Simon Shawcross 29:23
Absolutely. That's what I'm seeing. That's what I'm saying. I think the other thing is that we need to remember is high intensity trainers. It's fun to be physical. Like if you if you started to create this this better engine, this better motor. You know, with people who come in through the door who pretty dysfunctional physically maybe start off with. You don't want to deny them the opportunity to be physical in, in that physicality in that body that you've created now
Adam 29:27
right
Simon Shawcross 29:30
It's like you want to fire up the engines
Adam 29:52
you want to nurture that you want to inspire them to use their new strength. And again, you warn them and you caution them and you say this and you know, and you go through the exercise vs. recreation and, and I want you to use your body now that you are strong enough to use it and play your sports. But, you know, let's put things in perspective and context. And I think it's all good.
Simon Shawcross 30:14
Mm hmm. I think the thing that we see where the high intensity stuff is really important is that the strength training itself doesn't get diluted too much. It's like, that's the the underpinning of all that success in physiology is high intensity, safely applied resistance training, and we don't want to dilute that. That aspect of it. You don't want people doing doing crazy wild stuff, trying to build their muscle tissue on a balance ball or ridiculous things you occasionally see on YouTube if you ever spend any time there.
Adam 30:46
I do just because I'd have to sometimes, and but yeah, so Simon, to change gears a little bit, as you know that I wrote power of 10. And the power of 10 has the three pillars, exercise, rest and nutrition. And the rest part is not just about sleeping, rest part is also about relieving stress. And I was wondering, you know, one thing that I've noticed is changing in our industry, is that a lot of the practitioners now, and I think for the better, are incorporating a lot more of the meditator breathing techniques that would speak more to the rest and recovery aspect of working out. And are you noticing that that's changing a little bit, because, you know, back in the day, you know, meditation, breathing techniques, you know, that was kind of just poopoo just just don't work out, you know, more than once a week or twice a week. And that's considered rest. But rest now is a lot deeper than just that.
Simon Shawcross 31:45
Yeah, I think and the recovery side of the picture is, in many ways, as important or more important than the training, so you've got, obviously got to do the training. But that recovery side, it can be influenced. And sleep is super, super important. You know, you've got to be getting good quality sleep. But there are other things as you've rightly said, that you can be doing to enhance your recovery from intense resistance training. Things I'd because I've got it to hand personally things I like to do is to go out for a very calm walk first thing in the morning, on the trails, in a meditative type of way. So I'm just walking around pondering my day ahead of me before the stresses of a working day start. For me that combines meditation, where I'm focused on my footsteps, I'm focused on my breathing. And I'm focused on the environment around me and enjoying that process. And that sets me up for a productive day. That also for me, that helps to enhance my recovery from intense exercise. I know a difference between times when I do factor that in and schedule that in, which I'm much better at doing nowadays. But in the past, where I just like, Get up, grab a cup of coffee, and be straight into my working day. And I know it would take me a day, maybe two days longer to recover from an intense workout.
Adam 33:01
interesting
Simon Shawcross 33:02
yeah
Adam 33:02
Now that's your personal experience. Anecdotally, I mean, are you hearing any of that, outside of your personal experiences? I mean, we along with all your peregrinations, I, you are people kind of kind of saying the same thing to you
Simon Shawcross 33:16
In the wider picture. Yes, I think there are now more facilities that are starting to be open minded to in being inclusive in including other aspects. So they might have somebody who's doing massage therapy on site, they might have somebody who's teaching sort of a perhaps a meditative type of yoga on site. And these things are contributing to the client's overall wellness. And there there are, you know, there's loads of stuff you can do, you can you can look at nowadays, like, meditate for meditation to like, cold immersion, to infrared saunas, to to all sorts that you can look at and see, can you provide your client with an experience that's, that reinforces the positive impact of a high intensity training workout.
Adam 34:11
Yeah, and to me that that is really what the rest and recovery message is really about. It's not just getting good sleep, which of course, is obvious, you know, but but but putting you on that path, that that right path, that mental clarity, the ability to recover faster. I'm glad to hear that.
Simon Shawcross 34:30
And I think I think what's been missed perhaps is it matches really, really well with high intensity resistance training, because when somebody gets past their first I don't know 10 12 20 It takes different amounts of different people 20 sessions, when they get into this type of exercise, it's a very meditative type experience. It's just you your physiology, your muscle tissue and your nervous system, and the signals you're sending from your brain working together. And you're looking to remain as relaxed and yet focused as you can. Thats meditation.
Adam 34:59
That's right. That's right. Excellent. Excellent. Well, we'll end it there. That was a great way to wrap this up. And thank you so much for being here. I know you had a lot of people to see while you're here on East Coast. And thank you for taking the time to stop by our place and seeing us and doing this interview. And I hope to have you back. And we're going to be talking a lot more in the future.
Simon Shawcross 35:18
It's been an absolute pleasure. I look forward to that.
Adam 35:20
Thanks a lot.
Tim Edwards 35:22
Thanks again to Simon Shawcross, for his time here on the inform fitness podcast. In Adams interview with Simon he referenced his book titled power of 10, the once a week slow motion fitness revolution. If interested in checking it out for yourself, we'll have a link in the show notes that will take you to Amazon. And for less than 15 bucks, you'll find a ton of nutritional tips, including a handy list of foods that support the power of 10 protocol, and some effective exercise demonstrations of exercises that you can perform in the comfort of your own home. And if you'd like to listen to your books like I do, then check out another link in the show notes. This one will lead you to one of our new sponsors here on the inform fitness podcast, audible. If you do, there's a Free Audiobook download waiting for you. All you got to do is click the link in the show notes to audible trial.com forward slash inbound, sign up for a free 30 day membership trial and Download any book you like. Well, there are over 180,000 titles to choose from. If you decide to cancel your membership for any reason, and at any time, you keep all of your audiobook downloads. And while you're in there, you can pick out audiobooks from other guests we've had here on the inform fitness podcast, and you'll enjoy discounts of up to 30% Just by being an audible member. Alright, let's see. We've already thanked you for listening by giving you a Free Audiobook download from Audible. How about a free power of 10 workout, then click on over to the inform fitness website that's informfitness.com And of course that link to will be in the show notes. And then once you're at the webpage, you'll find a free slowmotion high intensity workout waiting for you just click the try us free button right there on the homepage. Fill out the form and pick your location. It's as simple as that you can experience a free full body workout that you will complete in just 20 to 30 minutes. Thanks again for listening. And for Adam Zickerman and Mike Rogers of inform fitness. I'm Tim Edwards with the inbound podcasting Network.
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