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This is the podcast for us dance teachers balancing our teaching job with other jobs, commitments, and just life in general! We don't need to know how to run the whole studio, work with students 20+ hours a week, or win big at competitions; we just want practical advice and real conversations about how to be the best dance teachers we can be with the little time we have with our students. Join Maia on the casual dance teacher's podcast and in the casual dance teacher's network on Facebook.
Maia
Hello and welcome to the Casual Dance Teachers podcast. This is your host, Maia. Today, I'm joined by Veronica Vazquez-Garcia to talk about her work with traditionally underserved populations, particularly those with various disabilities.
Veronica is the creator of Moves Made 4 Me, a developmental movement program that combines life skills with dance. She's the founder of Elevate Collective Solutions, a consulting business that helps organizations implement inclusive practices through workshops, speaking engagements, and training. And she's the founder of JMM Dance Co, a nonprofit dedicated to raising mental health awareness through social emotional learning, offering accessible programs that empower people to heal and develop SEL skills.
I mentioned this to Veronica already, but of course, there's so much that we could talk about. But today, we are really just going to scratch the surface and talk a little bit about her work setting up Moves Made for Me and how dance educators can benefit from keeping in mind some of the practices that she implemented in this curriculum. So without further ado, welcome, Veronica. Thank you so much for being here.
Veronica
Hi, Maia. I'm so happy to be here. I'm super excited.
Maia
Me too. I am really excited to hear more about your journey and the curriculums and work that you do. Can you start by telling me a little bit about how you came on this path of helping primarily kind of underserved groups of students and what inspired you to do that and what that journey has looked like?
Veronica
Yeah, for sure. So it's been quite a journey. My background as a dancer was and has been really varied.
Since a young kid, I had the opportunity to not only be in dance studios and compete, but I was also part of the church and part of the church dance ministry. And just my background, dance wasn't something that was primarily like something that I was exposed to in a way that was almost traditional or that, you know, I knew other people in my family who were doing this. So I was definitely different.
And it was something that I love to do. I love to I'm a kinesthetic learner. So I was totally glued to learning through movement.
And I want to know all about it. So by the time I was 16 years old, I knew about jazz, ballet, hip hop, tap, modern, lyrical. And that was just like, that was just how I viewed the world.
I did, however, I do have attention deficit disorder, and I have a bit of a memory loss due to the way I was born. But regardless with that, by just viewed the world differently. So I first started teaching at the age of 15.
And I started teaching with the recreation department. And that was a very different view. Because as you know, recreation departments go by quarterly, they go by quarterly schedules rather than a dance studio going by 10 months annual schedule.
So by the time I opened my dance studio, I had already this view and had been working with kids with just different backgrounds, like at risk youth, you know, not only disabled students, but kids from different backgrounds who dance, they weren't dancers, they just maybe had a benefit from from doing dance. And I recognize it was hard as a dance studio owner, bringing in dance classes for non traditional dancers in a traditional based dance studio. And I was young at the time.
And I couldn't pinpoint what was going on exactly, because I was taught how to teach first primarily in the recreation department. So it was just natural for me. So I was mixing these two together.
And it took it took a few years for me to recognize that I was coming up with recreational based dance curriculums and non traditional or inclusive based dance curriculums and a lot of different kind. And that's basically the right the beginning of the journey with these different special populations.
Maia
Yeah, that's awesome.
That fits so well, obviously, being the casual dance teachers podcast, you have such a good understanding coming from that recreational background. I know you created a curriculum called moves for me. I'm not familiar with that curriculum.
So can you tell me a little bit about it? And is that structured for your sort of stereotypical 10 month dance season? Or is that structured in a different way?
Veronica
It was a great question. So moves made for me is a curriculum that I created based on the need I was seeing in the dance classes that I was teaching primarily with individuals with different abilities. And some of this background was both in adult day programs, I would be contracted to go on location to teach an adult day programs.
And with different community organizations that had kids and adults with different abilities. So when I was coming into the classrooms, I was noticing that these students were, they weren't in classes that were mostly what we'd call almost daycare. And the teachers just were excited to have something for them.
So when I was coming in and teaching them, I really wanted to come from a place of value, where I'm not just teaching dance class for them, that's going to go the maybe over their head, because it's not meant for them. So I started to adapt. And this was probably in 2009, I started to adapt things in my classes for adult day programs, specifically, that was going to meet them where they were at, in their varied abilities from being having autism, cerebral palsy, at that time, what they would call diagnosed retardation and different abilities.
Some people were in wheelchairs or couldn't see, and they'd probably bring me about 35 to 40 of them in a room. So I quickly started to do research, I came up with different specific methods. And I'm just going to kind of name some of them that I add into the Ms. Made for Me curriculum, like the pre-MAC principle.
I have a lot of behavioral recognition exercises, mirroring, faith based, calling things that are not as though they are, there's so much of that when it comes to wanting to challenge someone who has a disability, that's really easy to just see the disability rather than the potential of where they're at. So those strength abilities, and from those classes, then I continue to adapt for different age groups, because I recognize that within different age groups of students who have different abilities, there are different gaps in their learning and gaps and milestones that are to be addressed. So I came up with the series, which is sensory moves, fantasy moves, expressive moves, mindful moves, and life skills moves.
Basically, each one of them has the developmental milestone focus of the age group. It doesn't mean that the child or adult is specifically in that age group, like mentally in that mindset, maybe they're 10 years old. And currently, there are some skills of what people might say two or four year olds that they're working on.
But regardless, because I do believe in challenging students, and I've seen it with my own child who has autism, challenging students to have them be at their best, I go by those age groups. And for example, in sensory moves, we focus ages two to four on exercises that have to do with developing sensory skills like there's no tomorrow. And so of course, we have movement, but the focus isn't dancing as per se developing those motor skills.
In kinesthetic learning that are focused on sensory fantasy moves, it focuses on imagination. And they these kids at that at the age of five to eight, you know, the skills of imagination is something that most kids are learning. But if there is a child who has a disability, that gap will probably be there.
So we'll put on keeps and we have fire camps, all different themes throughout the year. Anyways, I'm trying to put a description here of the different ages and the specific focuses for the age. It does go by annual by a calendar school year of 10 months.
So from September to June are the classes and is super cool because each class has a theme for the year. So because I believe that all students have the ability of learning, and I have seen a gap where classes for kids with special needs might be labeled like special need dance class, and they're just focusing on them having fun. So my concept is like why not focus on them learning just like you would teach jazz, you know, intermediate, and you have all these skills for the year, instead of the focus being on the style, we are going to learn in mindful moves.
Every month, it's a different theme of mindset. So we have focusing on our emotions one month, focusing on our time management, another month, etc. Or in fantasy moves, the focus is on fantasy moves.
But with giving kids the understanding and learning of throughout a year, what are the different holidays, special events that we do throughout the year, because kids who have a disability, oftentimes that social portion isn't fully developed. So breaking down, for example, in February, all about Valentine's Day and the whole theme, if a teacher chooses to purchase a curriculum in the month of February, they'll have a script with all the props that they need for the theme about love and, and friendship. And within that theme, what's different about the curriculum is it's not every week that we have a different class.
Instead, it's focused on progressing. So it'll be one script for that theme of four weeks with a focus on repetition, that for maybe a typical developing student, it might be a little bit boring or whatnot, it's like I already learned that. But for a child who learns differently, being able to repeat the same lesson with a progression each week gives them a sense of, hey, I feel successful.
I remember that I did it last week, or Oh, this time, I'm, I'm doing the same exercise. But I'm like, I'm feeling successful doing it. It is different for teachers, because I could see how a teacher teaching this, it's, it takes a little bit to learn it.
Because as a teacher, if you're teaching typical developing students, you might feel like, Oh, no, am I giving them enough skills? Or maybe this isn't going as fast as I want it to go. I know, I felt like that at first. And I definitely came up with this curriculum based on what I was seeing from the students I was teaching.
And I had to write it down, because I'm like, this is not the way I would traditionally be teaching a class.
Maia
Wow, you are like speaking to my soul right now. I feel like I've said so many times on the podcast.
Like, oh, I love a theme. I love a theme. I always like to have a theme.
So it's moves made for Maia is what you should call should call your curriculum. And you actually answered a few of my questions kind of all in one, but I want to delve deeper into what you're just talking about, where a neurotypical student might feel not challenged enough, it sounds like in some cases, right? But tell me if I'm getting this right, you would you still encourage that teachers try to group all different kinds of learners within the class? Or are you recommending this to be a separate class for specifically like the neurodivergent community?
Veronica
That's a great question. And I have an answer that either people are going to say I truly agree with her or this is different or like, I don't and I'm fine with it.
Because I believe strongly in what I believe. So after doing this for so long, and from my own experience as a gifted dancer, that that's like my language of speaking is through movement. I have seen and I know that if a child, a student loves dance, and that's their learning style, regardless of having a disability or not, then they're going to be in the class and they're going to learn and I think a lot of times we see and some teachers will get I can see a confusion there where they'll say, you know, I had some great students in my regular ballet class that have gone advanced who have down syndrome, who have autism.
But then my question is, did that student have a gift for dance, though? Were they a dancer? Like, did they love to dance? Is that why they stood all the way to competition level when you saw these great stats? Now, let's talk about kids who have a disability who are not dancers who dance is not like they don't love to dance, but the act of movement will help them therapeutically, then that's a whole different approach, because then that class wouldn't be tailored on skill base for dance education, but it would be tailored on developmental learning, utilizing movement. And that's something I've become really big at in my work that I do them all about that about all these different ways of I take what I love, which is dance, and I package it up for people who could care less about dancing. And that's like, that's what I've become really good at, because I have realized that so many kids, they will leave a classroom or the parents will be disengaged.
And they go, this class is not for my student. Most of the time, there'll be some type of a learning disorder there that is either undiagnosed or attention deficit disorder, even behavioral from just at home being in a in an environment at home that is not consistent. So with all of those behaviors, or learning disability, if a child just wants to be in an enrichment class, because they want to pair it up with their soccer and their football, and I don't know what else throughout the year, then that kid is already going into the door into the dance studio and their parents with their focus being I want to have fun, not I want to be a dancer.
So then the dance studios need to have classes that have a separation between those. Because when there isn't a separation, then there's that frustration, you're going in and you're teaching dance, and you love to teach. And you have dancers there who love to learn dance.
And then you've got a few students in there who are like, Hey, I thought I was coming in here to have fun. Yeah, so understanding the intention of the students, and then therefore molding the class to that intention. Yeah, awesome.
Maia
Thank you. So now I want to circle back to something else you said earlier that I was like, what is going on here? So you said that your classes that you were teaching had 35 to 40 students at a time in the adult population. Is that right?
Veronica
I did. Yes.
Maia
How did you do that? That seems massive to me, especially when they each have their own different challenges and, you know, learning styles. Can you tell me a couple things that you did to manage that group of people?
Veronica
Yeah, no, that definitely and I and I highlighted that because I knew it was gonna pop out.
When it comes to bringing in dance for therapeutic purposes into businesses who are not dance studios, and I definitely have a gift in doing that. You see things that as dance teachers would be like, we would not, we wouldn't teach a class in that format. But when you're collaborating with other community organizations, they don't see it that way.
It happens also in retirement communities, I get 35 dementia care, residents in at a time and whatnot, or even in recreational classrooms, it also happens and I'm going somewhere with this. It also happens where they'll bring in like 30 students into your class and they're two to four. The reason for that, like I said, is most of these places, they're just excited that someone's coming in to do an enrichment class, and their focus as much as it should be on safety and whatnot.
They're not seeing it that way. They're just seeing it as I just want to bring in a guest instructor to come enrich them in some way. And they'll do what they can do.
And that's, that's that. And so I definitely love to challenge the status quo on that. Because I do believe every person has the ability to learn, it's just a matter of meeting them where they're at, and recognizing what it is that they want to learn what it is that we're trying to learn here.
So what I did was, and what I do, and it's actually part of what I teach in my curriculums, and if people want to coach with me, is that you leverage the aids that are in the classrooms. And so it's not only in all of my curriculums have scripts for that. It's not only about myself going in to teach the students, but it's about having a script and having a preparation for the aids that are there that already come with them who most likely might want to be on their phone or go sit down.
So you there's a specific way of engaging them and getting them to be working with your classroom because those are and they're they're most Yeah, they've never been in a place where they don't have AIDS, whether it's a retirement community or an adult day program, etc. Recreation centers, that's a little bit different, but the aids are there. So then the aids are definitely there to utilize to be your helpers.
And I will then designate them in different areas. What I'll then do is I'll recognize what abilities I'm working with, you know, what students have a physical disability, they're either using a wheelchair, they cannot see, etc. And I'll space them out in a certain area of the room, then students who have a sensory that may be the way that my my tone of voice is going to trigger them, I'll tend to have them go more in the back of the room, and I'll space them out.
And I also am I'm going to recognize right away, if it's tone of voice, I'm then I'm shifting my tone of voice. And I talked about that in my curriculums about the importance of shifting your tone of voice, depending on what the message is and what you're trying to say. My classes already have an adaptation for different learning styles.
So for example, if I have an exercise, I will physically show the exercise, I will have a change in my tone of voice, I will bring a prop with me. And then I will have a different spacing variation for that same exercise. So then I am speaking to the different learning styles.
And and what happens is that with the classroom that large, for the majority of the time, there are going to be students who are just watching and staring at you for some of it. And it's just a matter of being comfortable in that because what I have seen is and what I know to be true is that a lot of these students, especially if they have a hard time communicating and speaking their visual learners, so they're going to just watch you, they're not kinesthetic learners, they're not going to be moving with you, they're going to watch you and figure out what your body's doing. And then all of a sudden, like maybe a week or two weeks later, three weeks later, they might do a move that it looked like they were never going to do.
That's what I do in in the larger classrooms. Again, the biggest asset that I have is utilizing the aids and going to the place and seeing how many aids are there and working with them and having a script for them.
Maia
That's great. Yeah. And it sounds like asking a lot of questions ahead of time to try and understand what you're going to be working with can really help.
Veronica
Yeah.
Maia
So I'm obviously gathering from this that you have put a ton of work and thought into your curriculum laid out really well. So rather than get into all of that, you don't have time to go through all the nitty gritty details. Let's just let people connect with you directly to learn more.
So can you tell us how people can get in touch with you? Sure. So dance educators, you go to the website moves made for with the number for me.com. They can email me. Yeah, my email is pretty long.
I will link it in the description. I'm going to make a note right now. And they can reach out to me by social media as well.
And just DM me. Let's see. Those are ways to get in contact with me.
I have, I offer the curriculum I offer coaching and consulting services. I do consult and coach with different organizations. Sometimes I'll get phone calls or yeah, I'll get phone calls from people.
Hey, you know, we were working with this school. And there were a few students who had a disability, but it wasn't brought up to us. So we then weren't sure what to do or how do we like separate our classes.
So then I give just my expertise and and and talk about different options. So yeah, those are different ways to get in contact with me.
Maia
This is gonna be probably such an overwhelming question, but I'm just gonna lob it at you and see what you think.
So if you could leave the listening dance teachers with like one little nugget of wisdom that you've learned from working with disabled neurodivergent dancers, what is one thing that you think that dance teachers should keep in mind when working with this population?
Veronica
One thing to keep in mind is the word empathy is what I'm going to start with empathy, which is the ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes. And this is something I learned from my dad, he, he passed away already, but he was a mental health psychologist, learned a lot of things from him in that area. But, you know, putting yourself in someone else's shoes doesn't mean having sympathy, like I'm sympathetic, and I'm going to try to just help you feel comfortable.
It means literally, if I step out and I observe what's happening with this student who might be driving me bonkers, because they might be running around circles while I'm trying to teach the class. And or their parent might be watching them. And they're just running back and forth between parents and the door, or we're not like, it's seeing past that and seeing like, what could that child be feeling? And if I were in their shoes, how would I be acting? And then once you're able to take a step back and go past how it's making you feel or how frustrated or how bad you may be feeling, and you just put yourself in their shoes, then you're able to see from a different lens, what might be possible solutions that most of the time these solutions have more to do with either dance studio procedures, forms, class options, things that are more like, I guess, HR focused.
And I'm really big about those type of regulations, because those are key when all of those procedures and systems are in place. Then you're able to work with those students in a way that's going to serve them and serve your studio. I think the other thing I will add is that it's very, very important to like, sit down and I like to meditate on things, but meditate on the values of your studio.
And who's your target market, because there are some studios that, you know, working with neurodiverse students may not be their target market, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And if they're just not set up for that setup, it's better to not offer it than to open the door and say, I'm inclusive, when it could end up harming more. And I think knowing those boundaries and knowing where your values are, of who you feel the most heart to work with, is where then when you let that guide you, because for me, I don't teach typical developing dance classes anymore, because I realized my heart wasn't in it.
I'm, you know, I'm a dancer, that's where, but my heart was in this. And it was a hard choice to make years ago. But I, I decided I won't step into a classroom that's a typical jazz or ballet class anymore.
I just don't do it. So go with your heart, figure out where your values are, and let your values guide you.
Maia
That's amazing. And we need more dance teachers that, you know, know their place and not to hate on, like, I'm one I teach general kind of ballet and modern, but there's a lot of us out there, right? We need more dance teachers that differentiate themselves.
Veronica
Well, everyone's different. I just knew with my style, and my way of teaching that I wasn't the most suited for teaching a regular class, because the structure that you need for advanced classes, just my personality was very different.
Maia
Before we close, do you have a quote that you'd like to share with us?
Veronica
Yes. So it's find the rhythm within yourself.
Maia
Beautiful. Thank you so much. Thanks for sharing all of your expertise and your insight. And I definitely hope that people can reach out and connect with you and start to spread these programs to more people as well. It's just beautiful what you're doing. Thank you.
Veronica
Oh, thank you. And thanks for having me on the podcast. I super excited and I hope to connect with people. I'll be here.
Maia
Yeah, I know there's so much more that you do too. So maybe we can chat more sometime in the future.
Veronica
Yeah, that'd be awesome.
Maia
Thank you so much.
Veronica
Thank you, Maia.
Maia
This is Maia again, popping back on after the interview to wrap things up.
This conversation was so beautiful, so relatable to me in so many ways. It also tied in really well with some of previous episodes that we've done regarding neurodiversity and different learning styles in dance. So in addition to linking Veronica's contact information in the show notes, I will also link some of the previous episodes that you can turn to if you'd like to learn more about this topic.
Huge thanks again to Veronica for her work in this area and joining the podcast to share that with us. Thank you to GB mystical for the theme music. And if you haven't already, please do join us in the casual dance teachers network on Facebook to share your thoughts, come say hello, give your own advice and expertise.
We'd love to have you there. You can also find us on Instagram at the casual dance teachers podcast. Thanks again, everybody, and I'll see you next time.