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Isaiah Rivera, pro dunker, and John Evans discuss anything related to maximizing athletic performance, and in particular, jump training. Strength and conditioning, jumping technique, weight room practices, and general fitness and health tips and advice are shared on this podcast.
What's up, guys? Welcome back to the THPStrength podcast. My name is John Evans, owner and cofounder of THPStrength. This is my business partner, Isaiah Rivera, the first person ever to test a 50 inch vertical leap and the only person to do it over six feet. Today's episode, we are gonna be talking about caffeine, something that we use well, I use very regularly.
Speaker 1:My athletes use it. It is in the classification of drugs considered to be a stimulant, not allowed to be used by the individuals who partake in the Mormon belief, but used by most Americans and actually everyone worldwide. So let's talk about kind of what the recommendations are, what the half life is, how it kinda functions. Basically, caffeine is in a lot of different things. It is in coffee.
Speaker 1:It's in energy drinks. It's in preworkouts. What are the other common caffeine pills. Some people do that. Soda.
Speaker 1:And, typically, the half life let me let me look this up real quick. I don't wanna get it wrong. I'll pause it. Double check. Half life is four to six hours.
Speaker 1:So what half life is, this is the amount of time it takes for half of that substance to dissipate or disappear in the body. So for example, if you take a hundred let's just say a thousand milligrams, something absurd. You take a thousand milligrams of caffeine, it takes about an hour for that to peak in your system. So if you took it at noon, let's say it peaks at 01:00, it would take five hours to get the five hundred milligrams of caffeine in your system. So that would mean 06:00, you still have five hundred milligrams of caffeine, which is, like, I think a cup of coffee has about ninety milligrams.
Speaker 1:So that's five, six cups of coffee at 06:00. And then by eleven or twelve, you would be at roughly probably what? That would be $2.50. You'd be about $2.50 at that time. Then another half life.
Speaker 1:So if you're at 01:25, now at 5AM, 6AM, you're still at one twenty five. By the next morning at, you know, that would be noon, you're probably still rocking, like, yeah, what, one twenty or seventy five milligrams or so. So this has a few complications that a lot of people maybe don't identify with. One is that caffeine is something you can desensitize to, meaning that its effects feel less potent when you take it regularly. So I've seen it at Altus quite a few times.
Speaker 1:Guys would only take caffeine on their jump sessions to maximize the efficacy of caffeine. So what does caffeine actually do in terms of performance? We know obviously that it's a stimulant, so it's gonna upregulate those excitatory neurotransmitters, which is good because we need those or e s e s p s's or whatever, excitatory postsynaptic potentials. So it's gonna upregulate those, which is good because that means you can fire off more action potentials and you recruit more type two units, maybe potentially faster or better than you would be able to without it. However, the downside to this is that there's something called the performance arousal curve.
Speaker 1:So there are other there are many things that also increase the excitability of your neurotransmitters or the amount that you're probably gonna release and maybe sensitivity to recruiting type u fibers. One of those things is going to be adrenaline. So adrenaline is two major neurotransmitters. I think they're neurotransmitters. Norepinephrine and epinephrine.
Speaker 1:So when you're really, really excited, those get upregulated as well, which also increase excitatory postsynaptic potentials. And the reason why that's significant is because if those are too upregulated, there's something called performance arousal curve where if you're too excited, your performance will actually go down. And I think Isaiah, talk about your experience with those two competing variables.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The the biggest thing I've seen caffeine help is, like, is jump height. But when I have a lot of caffeine, dunk technique goes out the window a lot of times. So, like, recently oh, and then I'm more prone to over jumping and just making bad training decisions if I just took caffeine. Another thing I've noticed is the adapting to the caffeine.
Speaker 2:So I just noticed, like, as over time, passes, I just need more and more caffeine, not even to jump well, but to feel normal to to feel like I just to get through a jump session versus when I'm not taking a lot of caffeine. I can get up and go dunk, and I don't need an external stimulant to motivate myself to do it. So the so something I'm personally doing as I'm getting into the competitive season is I'm actually not taking caffeine before sessions. Wait.
Speaker 1:Wait. Are you drinking coffee?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I'm still drinking coffee, but I'm not taking like, I'm not drinking an energy drink right before I dunk. At this dunk show I just did was actually the first time I've done a show without caffeine. Actually, I took two sips out of Jordan Sutherland's energy drink.
Speaker 2:I didn't So
Speaker 1:how did you how did you feel not taking it
Speaker 2:for the first time
Speaker 1:in a while?
Speaker 2:I felt Lewis put it a perv like, in a perfect way. As I was dunking, he was like, oh, it was weird not seeing you, like Excited. Excited. Like, I was just kinda just like, yeah. Just there.
Speaker 2:Do you wish
Speaker 1:you would have taken it, or did you just not have enough adrenaline?
Speaker 2:Well, the thing is I hit my dunks, and I didn't get hurt. I probably would have jumped higher. I probably would have warmed up more quickly, but I would have probably over jumped, and the jumps would have been more intense, more likely to get hurt. Yeah. But it was like yeah.
Speaker 2:I just wasn't I was just kinda there just like it it felt low energy is how I would describe it. So Do you think
Speaker 1:do you think there would be scenarios where you would consider taking it before contest anymore?
Speaker 2:I don't know. Honestly, don't know. Maybe something really important, but then it's like, where do you draw the line of, like
Speaker 1:When you take it and when you don't?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Because I I think, like, we we you're the first person I heard heard this when it comes to training dogs. You give an inch you give an inch and they'll take a mile. And I see Comparing yourself to a dog right now?
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. I'm I'm comparing everybody.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Like, I just I just see this behavior across literally everybody. But as soon as you allow yourself to do something in moderation, it just slowly climbs up. I I see it happen with everybody and everything. Anything that is addicting, whether it's alcohol or energy drinks. What?
Speaker 2:Then it's like Yeah. You initially take it for the performance benefit, but then it becomes a crutch. And then caffeine is especially dangerous because well, for me, it's it's dangerous because I tend to make more wrong decisions when it comes to training when I'm on when I'm on caffeine. So, like, to answer your question, it's like, okay. Maybe if there's a big contest coming up.
Speaker 2:Dunk man. Finals. But then guess what? There's a dunk man next year. What if I overjump?
Speaker 2:Alright? Like, what if like like, there there is a powerful argument for, like, just not using it at all for me, and I can jump high enough to hit everything without it. Yeah. That's a that's a very within the limiter. So
Speaker 1:Okay. So let's talk about guys who aren't competing on the biggest stage because that's gonna be Yeah. A lot of people listening to this podcast. You know? And I fall into this category as well.
Speaker 1:You know, I train because I love it, and I like to push myself and reach my potential, which is a French word for who gives a hell. And I think in that scenario, there's a lot more utility, especially if you're more disciplined. I think for guys that are capable of hitting more difficult dunks, and I've noticed this when I try technical dunks, you're way more tempted to overjump. Like, if I'm going for a if I have a an inventory of, you know, like you, basically infinite options. Right?
Speaker 1:There's there's essentially, I never run out of a dunk to try in a session. And if I'm you, I have the vertical to hit every single one of those as I get fatigued. However, in the case of myself, I've got, you know, maybe three dunks that I can maybe four, five that I can consistently get close to or hit on any given day on, you know, a 10 foot rim. So Yeah. In those scenarios, like, we've got a a one hander off the dribble.
Speaker 1:We've got a one hander off the lob. We've got a two hander off the dribble, two hander off the lob. We've got a one hander tomahawk. Occasionally, a two hander tomahawk is a few times, you know, a windmill off the dribble, windmill off a cuff, and then East Bay is off a lob and East Bay is off off a handoff. So for me, if that's essentially, you know, the entire dunk package I have, I need to be at 40 plus to hit, you know, essentially the the hard ones.
Speaker 1:And if I'm not, then it cuts that inventory down to whatever, let's say, like, four dunks. And I think in your case, because you have such a a large repertoire of dunks that you could hit, it's way more and hard dunks that you wanna hit, it's way more tempting for you to keep jumping than it is for us mere mortals, us peasants, if you will, Us us training padawans. So, yeah, if you're freaking Darth Maul or Darth Vader like you, you know, the big bad villain that's gonna come to dunk man and kick everyone's ass, then I think there's a there's a much higher risk for you to go out and take caffeine. I mean, one of the biggest things we see with caffeine is time to exhaustion. It it goes up dramatically.
Speaker 1:You know? It's a very That's the biggest benefit.
Speaker 2:Oh, I don't know about benefit. That's the biggest change I see. When days where I take a lot of caffeine, I can just go for forever when it comes to dunk, like like yeah. Is it the the battery takes a lot longer to deplete.
Speaker 1:Do you do you feel like the cluster of jumps is higher too, or do you feel like
Speaker 2:the Yeah.
Speaker 1:The outliers are the
Speaker 2:I've always jumped higher on caffeine. Like
Speaker 1:And now you're kinda shifting into a part of your career where sustainability and health and maintaining a high level of performance as you're competing more.
Speaker 2:Availability is the best.
Speaker 1:Availability is the best ability. That's one of my favorite quotes.
Speaker 2:That's like that's literally it. Like, I'm being available is more important than what dunk I hit or how high I jumped. I jumped high enough. Like, I'm getting paid to go and and put on a good show. I can put on a good show for without shouting.
Speaker 1:Never jump too high. That's against everything I study. No. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:When it comes to training, something like maximizing sets. We're just trying jump as high as you can. That's the goal. You're trying to jump as high as you can. I think what you described with Altus is the best way to do it.
Speaker 2:Ideally, you're not a regular, like, coffee drinker or, like, you know, you don't take caffeine, and then you just take it on I would say option a is for every jump session, not for lifts, and then option b is just deloads. So, like, if you're gonna max out your power king, max out that's a scenario where I would take it actually even now. It's like if I'm gonna go max out a lift. If I was if I were to test my vertical, I would definitely take it as well.
Speaker 1:Let's say you had the discipline to do everything, or is it that you have a
Speaker 2:lot of activity? The discipline or if I had somewhere someone at an event to carefully guide my warm up and then stop me at a certain jump, then I would take caffeine.
Speaker 1:What about in the case of Lewis at the last or at dunk at at dunk camp? You think that's, like, a use case
Speaker 2:where you is the is
Speaker 1:the dangerous part. Like, he wouldn't necessarily
Speaker 2:Yeah. You would have to have it'd it'd to be someone like you. It'd have to be someone like you and be like and then you'd be at have to ask me, like or, like, put pull on the the brakes. Like
Speaker 1:Hey. Yo. Slow down. Yeah. You're warming up too quick here.
Speaker 1:You're hitting three sixty East based on your third jump. Exactly. Yeah. I think that's a that's a really good way to be
Speaker 2:able world in a world where the warm up is discipline and then the cutoff for jumping is discipline, then I would take caffeine and not too much is the other thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think
Speaker 2:One last thing I was gonna say, another downside to be aware of is sleep. If you're jumping later in the day Yeah. You take caffeine, just know you're gonna not get a lot of sleep and the next day might suck. And
Speaker 1:that Yeah. Of that
Speaker 2:effects, you know, for injuries and stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, I was gonna say too from an adaptive point of view, I mean, sleep after a big event. Training competition's the greatest training there is. So Yeah. If you're not gonna you know, and it's unfortunate because those are the times when guys kinda let loose is after a contest. You know, that kind of pressure's off.
Speaker 1:You get to relax a little bit, which I think is important. You need a balance in that stuff. Otherwise, you know, you're gonna it's it's a tough work life balance. And, you know, but if you have the discipline to, hey. I finished an event.
Speaker 1:I know this is a huge training effect. I'm gonna go to bed at, you know, 10:00. I'm gonna wake up at eight. Know, I'm gonna make sure that I that I take in all my protein, and I'm not gonna consume alcohol or take anything that's gonna blunt the adaptive effect of this. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I know why you're giggling.
Speaker 2:Everything you said. Even can't bro, candy oh my god.
Speaker 1:I don't think candy is the worst thing after an event because you're depleted of glycogen. So I don't I don't think that's really a big
Speaker 2:No. You would you don't think two bags of wild berry sour cream.
Speaker 1:You think
Speaker 2:that two bag like, the bit like, not a package. Like, the
Speaker 1:Oh, that's that's a little excessive, but I still think you oh, man. I mean, how many how many grams of sugar are
Speaker 2:in that? Bro, I don't I don't even know if
Speaker 1:I wanna know. I I think I wanna know.
Speaker 2:My the inside of my mouth is still raw. Sanding it away? Yeah. Like, you ever eat sour skittles in, like, like, the roof of
Speaker 1:your mouth?
Speaker 2:Yeah. My like, literally, the inside of my mouth is still raw from it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, the 7.2 ounce bag, I think, is what you're talking about? Yeah. 7.2 ounce bag sour Skittle what would you call it? Nutrition facts?
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm terrified to see what this is gonna be. Okay. So we have a 120 calories, and it is eight seven to eight servings. And it is, oh, 37 to 47 grams. Let's call it 42 grams times eight.
Speaker 1:42 times oh, 16, actually. Okay. You had roughly 672 grams of carbohydrate, which let's see here. In one gram of sugar, there are four calories. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:You're gonna be disgusted when you hear this. You had 2,700 calories of carbohydrate slash simple sugars. That's way excessive. You could probably do one bag, but you had two full bags? You ate both bags?
Speaker 2:We we were all eating it though. We were all eating from it. So it was probably a bag, realistic, but it was my bag, so I ate the most. Like, I was, like, sharing
Speaker 1:If it's bag if it's a bag, then
Speaker 2:It was about a bag. Was about a bag.
Speaker 1:Then you're okay. I think that's okay. I think post event, your glycogen stores are zapped. You know, you're in a pretty catabolic state. That's the one time I'd be like, yeah, like, eat a lot of, I mean, the protein
Speaker 2:intake was probably crave sugar every after every session. Like, I go I want a freeze
Speaker 1:from talking. What what about what about protein intake? Do you do you, like, focus on taking protein?
Speaker 2:Bro, I've neglected it, like, really bad. I haven't drank a protein shake in months.
Speaker 1:No. That's not true. We get
Speaker 2:Oh, fair life milk. Fair life milk. Yeah. Well, I don't make them anymore. I don't I don't shake them anymore.
Speaker 1:Okay. We're definitely going to the gas station after your sessions. This is in low hanging fruit. But back back to caffeine, I think if you're in a use case where you have the discipline, big takeaway from everything that you've said as one of the highest numbers in the world, take it. If you can take it and be disciplined and periodize your intake, I think it's a good thing.
Speaker 1:Take it on your high intensity days. Hit about I think it's a lot of caffeine. I wanna say it's, like, actually, to see the real performance benefits, it's a it's a lot. Think I it's like six hundred milligrams, six hundred, eight hundred milligrams if you weigh, you know, a hundred and eighty pounds. It's a lot.
Speaker 1:So if you wanna periodize it on those really important days and you know you're healthy enough and you know you're disciplined enough, go for it. For perspective, that's like four scoops of of pre workout I think Josh has bucked up, and that's two hundred milligrams of caffeine. There's beta alanine in there. There's a bunch of other stuff, a bunch of other stimulants. It'll you'll I mean, I used it the other week, and I also over jumped.
Speaker 1:So keep the keep that in mind. Even I even we struggle with despite everything I said.
Speaker 2:I see it. It's the lack of it's the lack of care. Yeah. It's the I don't care about my body.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Until until next week and you're like
Speaker 2:messed up. I'm not gonna care, but you end up regretting it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think that's true. So, yeah, those are the big takeaways. Zay, go ahead. Let's do do do the send off here.
Speaker 2:Yeah. If you want to find out the biggest weakness stopping you from jumping high, go to thbstrength.com, sign up for the free vertical jump deficit diagnosis call. And then if you qualify, we can offer you a free six week program. It's free because you put a deposit down, and if you do every workout, you get the deposit back. But go check it out, guys.
Speaker 2:Thbstrength.com. Link in the pinned comment and the description. See you guys.