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Welcome to Late Boomers, the podcast that is your guide to creating a third act with style, power and impact! Join your hosts, Cathy Worthington and Merry Elkins, as they bring you conversations with successful artists, entrepreneurs and entertainers who have set themselves up for an amazing third act. Everyone has a story, and Cathy and Merry take you along for the ride on each interview, recounting the journey each guest has taken to get where they are, and inspiring you to create a path to success as you look toward your own third act!
This is the EWN Podcast Network.
Cathy Worthington:Welcome to Late Boomers, our podcast guide to creating your third act with style, power, and impact. Hi. I'm Kathy Worthington.
Merry Elkins:And I'm Mary Elkins. Join us as we bring you conversations with entrepreneurs, entertainers, and people with vision who are making a difference in the world.
Cathy Worthington:Everyone has a story, and we'll take you along for the ride on each interview, recounting the journey our guests have taken to get where they are, inspiring you to create your own path to success. Let's get started. Hello. Welcome to the late boomers podcast where we bring you inspiring stories of people creating new chapters in life with style, power, and impact. I'm Kathy Worthington.
Merry Elkins:And I'm Mary Elkins. Today, we have a fascinating guest whose life reads like a thriller novel, Pete A. Turner. He's a former army, that's army, counterintelligence agent, a combat veteran, a writer, a musician, and the host of the podcast Break It Down Show with over a thousand episodes featuring guests from around the world.
Cathy Worthington:Pete's work as a spy took him into some of the most complex and dangerous environments on Earth. He's been embedded with troops in combat zones, worked alongside locals, and lived the realities behind the headlines.
Merry Elkins:And today, we're going to be talking to him about what it really means to be a spy and how those experiences shaped his perspective on leadership, culture, and communication, and how he's built a long running podcast that connects people through deep, honest conversations.
Cathy Worthington:And we'll also explore how Pete manages to find humor, humanity, and insight in places most of us would never dare to go.
Merry Elkins:So settle in. This is going to be a wild, never dare go eye opening ride.
Cathy Worthington:Let's welcome Pete a Turner to the Late Boomers podcast.
Pete A. Turner:Thank you ladies for having me on. I love it. I love your intro, the team intro. That's a cool concept. I should do more of those.
Pete A. Turner:You know, on my show, I don't do. I just start like you sat down in a bar. Uh-huh. And started talking to someone. Yeah.
Merry Elkins:But I
Pete A. Turner:I just love I I don't even put any music, like, don't start up. I mean, there might be music playing in the background, but like, let's just sit down and get to talking. So I love I love your guys' approach. It's wonderful. And by way, everybody watching.
Pete A. Turner:Yeah. Hey, listen. I got a fancy pink shirt on. And everybody watching, I'm thanking you all too because you can do a lot of things, but you're gonna listen to us and I appreciate that. So thank you all.
Cathy Worthington:Yeah. And I wanna ask you. What does it when you say you were a spy? Let's start
Pete A. Turner:think I was a spy. My job was to find people who would work with me and potentially to against the interest of their country or their neighbors. You know, that's like the worst case. But yeah, my job was to go out and find out things. And and basically four four things went into my particular job was to help my commander win more and lose less, and help the enemy lose more and win less.
Pete A. Turner:And if I was really great, I would grab all those all four of those elements in one motion, one bit of information. And so I I had the misfortunate fortune of having a lot of experience in a lot of hard places. And a a big element of my job is to get to know the nastiest, most dangerous people. And that often is us, but also I've gotta go find the locals who fit that description. Because then my job is to try to get them to calm down and maybe work with us and and flip them over to our side.
Pete A. Turner:So it's a complex job, a lot of danger, but also fascinating. It's it's the I can't believe that I got to do that job for so long.
Cathy Worthington:Oh, you know,
Merry Elkins:I have so many questions. Oh, go ahead, Kathy. How many questions want to ask him about what you what he just said, but go on Kathy.
Cathy Worthington:How long how long ago did you stop doing that?
Pete A. Turner:I stopped fully in 2012. I took on a couple of little small contract jobs after that, but nothing substantial, know, just more like in a secondary kind of role. So 2012 was my answer there.
Merry Elkins:Mhmm. Woah. Woah. Well, my questions have to do with everything that about being a spy and how you meet your local contacts. Anyway, let's talk about your podcast for a second because I'd like to know how you book guests on your show and what makes someone stand out as a potential guest.
Pete A. Turner:Yeah. It's a great question. So I've been doing the show for over ten years now and we've produced actually, it's over 2,000 episodes now. And it's funny because when I say that, I I cannot believe it's too and and I've seen we're well past 2,000. You know, I kinda quit counting.
Pete A. Turner:I probably won't ever say, hey, we've been to two, you know, 3,000. Oh. Because once you've got 2,000 and everybody just sees it's like just volumes of shows, there's no denying the production capacity, you know. And so the point of the number is kind of fading as as I get further and further from 2,000. But to book guests, my show is established enough that oftentimes guests are coming into me and the show sort of just books itself.
Pete A. Turner:And then Mhmm. I've got enough friends because of the show, like hopefully you ladies and I, like we're all leaving the same region. Maybe you will come back on to my show, and then all of a sudden, you know, you might, oh, you know what? We had this great person, and and that swap happens. And so the swapping, the interchanging, the self booking, the PR people that I know that are like, Pete, we had this really amazing person coming on.
Pete A. Turner:I was just reading a Tom Clancy novel because most of the current Tom Clancy authors have all been on my show. I know these people. Right? And so, I have that that's part of the hard work paying off a dividend. I don't have to work so hard to book people.
Pete A. Turner:And then, another thing I do, it's just amazing to so someone will say, oh my gosh, I read this book. And my buddy Brad did this from the other day. He's like, there's a guy named, Caldini who talks about influence and a lot of the things you say are in his book. And I'm like, alright. So let me go get that.
Pete A. Turner:And I read the book and I'm like, yeah, this is all spy stuff. It's influence. So it applies to sales, it applies to leadership, all kinds of things. I get a hold of them at the Caldini Institute and and Caldini is not doing interviews anymore. He's he's a little older, but the guy who runs the Caldini Institute is like, yeah, I'll come on your show.
Pete A. Turner:So on Monday, that hey, Pete, you should read this book turns into, hey, he's gonna be on my show. And and that ability to do that for me is one of the great things. So when when someone is available to be interviewed, I ask. And then they say yes most of the time because I've gotten good at asking. Because I've become a show that you can go on.
Pete A. Turner:And and so I'm just the show has become it's as I'm saying them, like, can't believe it. My show has become a destination where people look, of course, they'll come on your show. Yesterday, I had on Dean Butler and Alison Ongram and their Little House on the Prairie cast. Right. And they love coming on the show.
Pete A. Turner:We're familiar with each other. Right? Like, are we friends? We're not not friends, you know. Are we close?
Pete A. Turner:No. Of course not. But I get to be a destination where they sit down and I don't ask them the same questions. I try to have them talk about other things and they love that. We had a great time.
Pete A. Turner:So that's that's sort of my secret sauce is I got really great at booking guests and while I could book, I can ultimately book anybody if they're doing media and sometimes people aren't doing media and that's work for them, but I I just I don't fear the no, I don't borrow it and people say yes to things and so so I I just keep asking.
Cathy Worthington:Yeah. We're getting to that point too where we're starting to ask people kind of out of the blue and we've got enough episodes under our belt now that we looked legit, you know, after five years.
Merry Elkins:And we were starting to come to us too. And that that's really rewarding.
Pete A. Turner:Yeah. Getting those PR people on your side is is such a big thing because they what they need to do is get their client on things. Now, they're picky, but a lot of them are gonna be like, all I have to do I've got mosquitoes flying around here. All I have to do is just get my client reps on shows and make them so busy like, stop putting me on all these show. Like that's their goal.
Pete A. Turner:And so I've become a destination for like, I'm gonna give a great interview, they're gonna love it. And so the PR agents happy, the client is happy, I'm happy, audience is happy. We all
Cathy Worthington:That's want great. Because we do get a lot of submissions from PR people. Lot of our guests come from through their PR reps. Yeah. It's Now flipping a little bit back to the military or let's talk about what it's like to be in a firefight and how do you process that kind of intensity afterward.
Merry Elkins:Yeah.
Pete A. Turner:Boy. Okay. So let me see if I can put you into a firefight first.
Cathy Worthington:Oh.
Pete A. Turner:If you were walking around in a valley, right, in Afghanistan, there's mountains on both sides and there's just, you know, farms in the valley floor, and as far out as you can kinda reasonably see, you know, like that valley is full of of homes. Not a lot of homes but, you know, just kind of picture like Simi Valley. Right? And you're looking at that and Simi Valley for everybody is it's in Southern California but it's it's very pastoral. So you have people out there and then there might a fight might start right there.
Pete A. Turner:So maybe 300 yards away is the enemy and they're like, now we're gonna attack the camp. So it happens, bang bang bang bang bang and they start shooting and you're like, what's going on? Why are they attacking us right now? I'm sure they're the enemy but why now? What are they trying to accomplish?
Pete A. Turner:Are they trying to trick us? And so your brain kind of cycles to all these things. Where am I? Because a lot of times, I'm off the camp. I'm talking to farmers.
Pete A. Turner:I'm talking to whomever. And so now I have to think about, okay, do I make a move to get back to camp? Do they know I'm here? Are they gonna come get me and rescue me? Am I taking resources away from this firefight?
Pete A. Turner:And so all this stuff starts going through my head. I've got a radio. I'm gonna stay off of it because they know I'm off the camp. I've told them and so I'll and they're all talking. They all say the same thing.
Pete A. Turner:What's going on? Who's got who sees this? So bang bang bang bang bang. Rounds are going back and forth. We start to return fire.
Pete A. Turner:And in this case, we're under the firefight. So it's going over our heads. We're not laying on the ground because it just I'm in the I'm more in the valley so the firing firing is going overhead, but it's not it's not like a mile overhead. It's, you know, it's in that zone where you wanna be careful where you stand. And so I'm trying to sort out how do I let them know that I'm okay, that I'm over at Bob's house, and that I'm gonna either stay or whatever they tell me to do or they'll come get me or get back to the camp.
Pete A. Turner:And that that's a real thing. So you're trying to sort out all of these things. Now in this case, this is an actual story. I'm with a reservist who's there and he's not a seasoned designer. He hadn't been shot at enough.
Pete A. Turner:And so he's panicking and I'm like, hey, we're in this building, but stay in the center. Nothing's gonna hit us in here because there's no big things coming. Right? It's all rifles and and maybe some like bazooka type things. And he's like, no.
Pete A. Turner:And I'm like, just hold on. And he's trying to call in and I'm like, stop trying to call in. They're busy. You can hear the radio chatter going on and he and bullets are flying and he decides to take off. He's gonna make a break for it and he hasn't told anybody this.
Pete A. Turner:Now keep in mind, both sides are shooting so now we're gonna run out from protection and we're gonna run across an open area. And look, it's mostly safe in a firefight. And so we start to run start to run. I'm wearing flip flops by the way because I'm in a meeting with Afghans. Yeah.
Pete A. Turner:And so we take our shoes off and we go inside. So I'm like, why am I gonna wear boots? I'm just leaving the camp. So I'm maybe maybe a 150 yards away. So not far from the heart of the American camp and I'm in a cement building.
Pete A. Turner:One of the only ones in this valley. So we are totally safe. Now I have to leave that safety and I've gotta run across. Now listen, maybe the enemy is gonna move towards us and maybe we're the target. We don't know.
Pete A. Turner:But we haven't had a chance to even figure this out and then my my compadre has decided to and I have to go with him. I can't let him go on his own because we're gonna have to move as a unit. Even though we're not the same team, you know, we're on the same side. And so I can't let him go by himself. So now I've gotta move with him.
Pete A. Turner:And so we're moving in towards the camp and he's trying to call to have someone open the gate because it's like a mechanical gate, you gotta unlock it. So someone has to leave their safety and come towards the gate. To get to the gate, there is a chicane. Dink it dink it. Seven turns of concertina wire.
Pete A. Turner:Each each turn is I don't know. Maybe maybe 10 yards long. 30, maybe 40 feet. So you gotta like really slowly kind of navigate this thing. It's ridiculous.
Pete A. Turner:Like in a firefight. Yeah. It could be 10 people shooting at you. Yeah. And so you're gently trying to because if get hung up, well, now you're hung up on Constantino.
Pete A. Turner:Why are you gonna tear your clothes and you're gonna tear yourself? And so, you have to be very deliberate about how you move. As we're running towards Constantino Chicane, there's another guy, a former Green Beret who's going through the chicane but he's going out and I'm like, my god, it's so embarrassing. Because, you know, his guy's running towards the fight and because I'm with this other person who's afraid, we're running away from the fight, taking resources. We were fine where we were.
Pete A. Turner:But all of these things are what's going now, am I worried about getting shot? Of course. Right? And Mhmm. I wasn't when we were inside the building.
Pete A. Turner:You know, maybe I'm concerned about movement of of the enemy towards us, that's an idea of what a firefight can be. There's a lot of things going on. Now for me, I've been shot at enough that I can slow down. Now my heart rate's gonna go up and adrenaline's gonna go, but I know how to calm down and work on even if my body is trying to be chaotic, my mind is gonna slow everything down and I'm gonna say, alright, where's the best place to be? Here.
Pete A. Turner:Not just here in this room, in the center room that's got concrete walls around con so we'll be in like the safest place. What's the worst thing that can come? They don't have any tanks. They don't have any, you know, big big munitions. So we'll be safe there and we can wait till things calm down and then key in and say, hey, we're still over at the governor's Residence, you know, we're fine.
Pete A. Turner:And then they can say stay there or they can say run or they can say, you know, whatever they wanna say. That's my brain is thinking. The other guy, he panics because he's been in firefight. Yeah. So you can be you can be in that kind of training all you want, but he had too many variables and his his training wasn't robust enough and his experience wasn't robust enough to make him withstand what was really and listen, this is a gunfight, so it's dangerous and scary, but really was not that dangerous of a thing.
Pete A. Turner:And I'm saying that combat veteran style in context of like, this is a gunfight. Look out, bad things can happen. But that's what happens. And so anything anything can happen to kind of change your point of view when you're in a firefight and make you realize, oh, shoot, I should have worn boots. Maybe I should wear boots every time and, you know, take the time to take my boots off instead of being not lazy, but Yeah.
Pete A. Turner:You know, because I'm running on a rocky field. Yeah. My flip flops, you know. And very It's ridiculous.
Cathy Worthington:And flip flops.
Merry Elkins:How did your how did your training teach you to calm down in in a firefight in a situation where you have so many variables? What did you do?
Pete A. Turner:You know, the animal part of your brain, the instinct part, right? Fight, flight, freeze. I have worked through most of those things. That doesn't mean that I'm perfect. I might freeze and be like, I don't know what to do right now.
Pete A. Turner:Right? But then that time for me is gonna be shorter than the regular person. I may think I need to run and get out of here, but maybe what I need to do is freeze. And so I have the ability to resist that initial impulse, slow time down, and then try to pick the right spot to be. It doesn't mean I'm great at it, but I have the I'm better than most at it because I've been in that situation often enough.
Pete A. Turner:I'll I'll give you another firefight story. So, I go with an army unit and it's an area where there's a lot of attacks. It's a very competitive area and a firefight breaks out. Just picture like a like a town square, a little bigger, a town square. And so I'm talking to a guy, we'll say his name is Dave and he's the barber.
Pete A. Turner:And we're in his barber shop and we're talking and I'm doing my job. That's my job, talk to people. And the firefight kicks off and he's like, hey, let's go in the alleyway cause so that we have a little more protection than from where his store was. So we just moved a couple feet away. We're still right in front of his shop, but now, like, we're at least not anywhere near the result of the firefight.
Pete A. Turner:Though the bullets are coming in our direction, but we're like protected by this alleyway. During this firefight, rounds kinda start creeping towards us. They're not shooting at us, it's just them moving and we happen to be in this spot and like little bits of wall are hitting us in the face as the bullets are hitting claws but they're not they're not gonna hit us. Right? And so both of us have been in enough firefights, Dave the barber and Pete the spy, that we're like, yeah, whatever.
Pete A. Turner:Anyhow, we'll just keep you are you okay to talk? Yeah. Let's go take maybe even get a little cut in your face from the from the, you know, bits of concrete that hit your face. It it's it's pretty intense. In my world, I'm like, oh, yeah.
Pete A. Turner:This is fine. If Dave's fine, I'm fine. We'll just keep talking. Like, what are we gonna do? Go over here and not talk?
Pete A. Turner:Like, we're gonna at worst, we're gonna move 10 feet over and get further Right? You know? But but that's the difference between someone that's seasoned in combat and someone who's like, oh my god, they're shooting and and then running, you know. And so Dave's not gonna leave his shop. I'm working.
Pete A. Turner:He was willing to talk to me. So we just kept we just kept talking.
Merry Elkins:Wow. Interesting. Well, to give our audience a rest from this kind of firefight intensity, let's go back to your podcast because as you said, you're now at 2,000 episodes. So how do you keep up the energy and your curiosity alive after so many conversations?
Pete A. Turner:You know, they all kind of build on each other. I gather a lot of wisdom. I gather a lot of joy. Yeah. My job is to bring out the best in them and not ask them the same questions.
Pete A. Turner:So I don't do bios. They can get that from somewhere else. Nothing wrong with the bio. But I don't need to ask them those questions. And so I just try to find the thing and that to me is fascinating.
Pete A. Turner:You know, like I I was asking, Dean and and Allison like how much when you go to these reunion events, how much of this is work and how much of this is joy? And they're like, oh, you know, it absolutely is a lot of work. We love it but you're right. Like we're helping plan it, we're helping promote it. And so there is all this work.
Pete A. Turner:Right? I'm comfortable enough with them and they're comfortable enough with me to be honest about that. And that's just gonna be like, it's the best. They're gonna say, yeah, there's work there. It's hard and people are wonderful.
Pete A. Turner:But sometimes people glom and that's hard. We have to deal with it and accept, you know, all these things. But we talked about that for a good ten minutes just talking about the the joy versus work thing. And then also we talked about and and again, like you just don't get this kind of question very often. I was able to say, how come it works for you guys?
Pete A. Turner:Like, yes, there are people from the Waltons that go do things still. Merry Merry Kindness and people from Happy Days. These are all shows from the same era everybody. But you don't think about Happy Days reunions, they really they just don't do that. And so why them?
Pete A. Turner:Why is it taken so well? What is it? And so we discussed that for a long time and it was fascinating. How can I not want more of that? I mean, Mary Yeah.
Pete A. Turner:That's that's why we do these shows is get to have these incredible conversations.
Cathy Worthington:Yeah. Mary and I can totally relate to that. Absolutely. We find so much wisdom from our guests. We learn so much.
Cathy Worthington:We end up counseling with them or reading their books or
Merry Elkins:Taking their classes.
Cathy Worthington:We've done all kinds of things because of our guests.
Merry Elkins:Yeah.
Cathy Worthington:So they're they're opening up our worlds and what but I have to ask you, who's the most interesting guest you've ever hosted and why? And that's hard.
Merry Elkins:Choosing your favorite child. Really.
Cathy Worthington:It's impossible.
Pete A. Turner:I'm just gonna Who's stand out? Yeah. There's a guy named Scott Richards that I know. No one knows this guy, but he is like me. He is a person who talks to people and networks.
Pete A. Turner:He is the guy that they that they call when there's a problem and they're trying to solve it. So when we see the end result of the current attempt at peace between Israel and Hamas built by Steve Wittkofen and Jared Kushner, Scott is the guy who is working every day in that problem. And it's just no no knocking those Wittkofen and Kushner. Mhmm. They're they're instrumental in this stuff, but they don't stay there every day.
Pete A. Turner:Scott is there on the phone working twenty hours a day trying to close those seams up and then as he closes them up, they open up again. He's like, hold on hold on get back. And so he sort of lets Jared and Steve know, this seems to be together, do your part now and then they'll come in and try to like weld that that scene. But it's fascinating and because he and I get each other and and all this kind of work, it's sexy to talk about me talking to Dave the barber and getting shot at. But the reality is, it's slow deliberate work fraught with errors.
Pete A. Turner:And so, have personalities you're trying to blend in and someone who's resolute, I will not move. And then one day they they move and you're like, oh my god, why didn't you just do that three months ago? People died because you were stubborn, you know. And so he's trying to constantly weld these things together into a temporary state, and then see if these different nations will act in a way that's beneficial towards peace. And that's all he cares about.
Pete A. Turner:He's not a politician, he's not political, but it's fascinating talking to him because he's taken the practical things that I've done and applying them in a different way, and I just can't get enough of of talking to Scott. And nobody talks to Scott. Nobody I I got lucky to get to know him, but because he respects my game and I respect his game, we can talk at a level that and I don't dumb down our conversations at all for the audience. It's on them to hang with us because Scott's time is precious and he'll give me an update as soon as he can. But a lot of times he's working so hard.
Pete A. Turner:Right now, I can't talk to him because he's working so hard on holding this piece together. He's desperate to do that. He got no time for me and that's fine. He knows that. Like I can I'll reach out, hey man, whenever you're ready, you know.
Pete A. Turner:Because I gotta do my job and then it'd be like, okay, let's go. Actually, I was I was within an hour of his location when I was in England last week and we still didn't manage to get together because he's trying to hold this deal together. So my ego is no part of this conversation at all. Like, you do this world saving stuff. I'll come to England some other time or not, but we can always talk like this.
Pete A. Turner:And so I love talking to Scott. I can't get enough of it and I'll talk to Scott anytime he wants.
Merry Elkins:Did you learn from him?
Pete A. Turner:Lot of confirmation of what I've done. You know, it's one thing to go, I went out and I did these things, but to me it almost seems impossible. Was I actually be successful? And he's like, I did the exact same things and then we compare our notes and it's like, oh my gosh, you know, we're in the same club and this club doesn't have a lot of members in it and so Mhmm. Maybe he'll add in a layer for me or maybe I'll add in a layer for him and as we both do this to each other, we're both opening our own skills and our own experience to to accomplish these things that that we have either did or do.
Pete A. Turner:And it's just it's always a learning thing and also trying to figure out how to communicate this because both of us have to communicate to people and it's very hard to say, I'm gonna sit there and listen to this shake talk for four hours and only hoping to accomplish a more positive relationship when I get out of there. I'm not trying to get a secret word or a handshake or a commitment for the thing. I have to figure out where the starting point is and Scott gets that. And so I learn a lot from his ability to currently still be doing it.
Cathy Worthington:Wow.
Merry Elkins:Yeah.
Cathy Worthington:That's kind of amazing.
Merry Elkins:It is. What's the most common miss podcasting still, what's the most common mistake new podcasters make when they're starting out?
Pete A. Turner:Well, they think that what we're doing is easy, You know?
Merry Elkins:Yeah. It's it's
Pete A. Turner:know, I don't Yeah. Wanna Right. Oh, yeah. I talk all the time. Okay.
Pete A. Turner:Yeah. Yeah. But I am paying attention to where my my voice is. I know it like when I get excited and I hear it, know what's going on. My voice will get higher into my head and I'll be really excited and I'm doing some of that not on purpose but I'm monitoring where it's at and if I need to bring my chest my chest voice out more, I I will.
Pete A. Turner:Right? And I'm listening to the two of you and I'm, you know, there's a lot that we're doing. And when you think that you get to turn on the lights on a studio and then the next thing you know is how do I monetize? Like, my gosh, no. Listen, this is you have to make something valuable before you can ever hope to trade for money and and even then, you have a lot of competition, you know.
Pete A. Turner:And I'll Jason Bateman is part of our competition. Gathers a lot of attention. So if you wanna now take that little tiny wedge, you get it's those wedges are powerful, but you have to know everything about that little wedge, that little place. I'm not even saying being niched but to get your little community of people who get you, you've got be ready. Fine.
Pete A. Turner:Probably if you wanna make money, you should probably go drive Uber over five years, save up a $100,000 and buy a franchise because that's how you make money. This, you have to find other ways to get value. And I'm not saying you won't make money, but I am saying that it's work, it's hard work and it's variable. Your show will grow and it'll create it. It'll grow and it'll create it.
Pete A. Turner:You gotta withstand all of that chaos and still try to pull a check-in. It's it's a very competitive world and always people are pitching me with things that I can buy to make my show better. Yeah. All the time. All the time.
Pete A. Turner:Yeah. Every day I get multiple emails. Here's how we make your show better. You don't even know my show. How are gonna make my show better?
Pete A. Turner:You
Cathy Worthington:know? Right.
Pete A. Turner:So Right. Yeah. That's I think is misunderstanding the that this is a profession. And if you come in and you think an amateur can step in and and rule the world, I'm sorry. That's not gonna happen.
Pete A. Turner:Not reliably, you know. No matter how good you think you are, everyone is better and more equipped and more experienced. And it's just it's very tough field to crack into and and make a dent.
Merry Elkins:Yeah. Mhmm. And people are always asking how to get into it. How do I do it? Oh, I wanna do a podcast.
Cathy Worthington:Mhmm. Yeah.
Pete A. Turner:I would say this is Nine times
Cathy Worthington:out of 10, they don't have a theme, and they don't know what they're, you know, gonna talk about.
Pete A. Turner:Yeah. That kind of thing. We tried to
Cathy Worthington:feature we Yeah. I met met you on PodMatch.
Pete A. Turner:PodMatch is a great source. It is. If wanna get better at podcasting, you wanna learn how to grow and and make money, you need to be on PodMatch a 100%. You can connect like we're doing. That's how we met.
Pete A. Turner:Right? It's a phantom. Right. Dollar for dollar, I don't know of a better service. Look, we have to have these recording studios, they cost a little bit of money, but other than that, PodMatch is the next best thing and that's how you grow, is to learn, get on shows, get reps.
Pete A. Turner:It's
Cathy Worthington:Mhmm.
Pete A. Turner:I I liken what we do to swimming. You can say, I wanna swim 800 meters of butterfly and win a gold medal. I'm like, wait, can you get across the pool one time doing any stroke? No. I'm like, okay.
Pete A. Turner:Well, then we gotta learn how to swim first and then you gotta learn how to come to the pool every day. You gotta get the right kind of shorts because you don't wear those board shorts. You gotta have something that's and all of a sudden you realize, again, it's a profession and people should
Cathy Worthington:Great do analogy. Learn to swim first.
Pete A. Turner:Right. Learn to swim and then see if
Cathy Worthington:this is
Pete A. Turner:your thing. Know, maybe maybe this isn't your thing. And that's okay. It's okay to change your mind but like actually podcast not for me or maybe you want to be a guest is what you really wanna be. Again, back to pod match.
Pete A. Turner:Build a Yeah. Guest If have
Cathy Worthington:a message.
Pete A. Turner:Right.
Cathy Worthington:If you have a message you wanna get out there and you then you should be a guest on as many podcasts as you can. And I'm gonna flip back. We're kind of going back and forth. We should have put these questions in a little bit better order, but I wanna go back to this, because I wanna get your opinion on whether The US should get involved in conflicts like the ones that you have seen up close.
Pete A. Turner:You know, the answer to that question is it's what we do. So how do we do it better? And I would say a lot of the things that I see us do, we don't take seriously. So I'll give you some examples. If Mhmm.
Pete A. Turner:I'm gonna go pre deploy, I am going to go through training and they'll make me do things like give someone an IV. I've given people enough IVs that I don't have to practice that anymore. And so instead of just saying Pete's done that, I have to actually go spend a whole day going through the whole course when all I really gotta do to graduate that course is pop a needle in a vein and go, there it is. Voila. I've done it.
Pete A. Turner:Right? Maybe I need a couple extra sticks for practice, but but really no. But instead, I'll waste eight hours of training time going through what seems like great training but it's completely irrelevant to what I'm gonna do every day and what I do every day is hard. And you have all these folks who are gonna use interpreters to talk to locals, whether they're talking to sheikhs or government officials or military people. We take zero courses on how to work with an interpreter.
Pete A. Turner:And it's just assumed that that's an easy skill. It is not an easy skill. And so we leave and go and deploy and we focus on these military tasks but the tasks that are going to win are not the tasks that we ever spend any real time on it. We'll go shoot rifles and work on our marksmanship and all of that stuff. It's great military training But I'm not gonna go shoot on a range in my job.
Pete A. Turner:I I fired very few rounds in combat. I've done zero push ups and firefights. Right? But there I am doing push ups like, I'm doing push up. I'd rather be working on talking to people in cafes and getting better and getting somebody's
Cathy Worthington:languages. Do you speak multiple languages?
Pete A. Turner:Am familiar with a lot of languages. Yeah. But I rely on interpreters and I'm excellent at that. And that's a difference maker for me because I use my interpreter like an extension of me and an extension of the person that we're gonna talk to. And so I'm prepping them all the time for what I'm going after.
Pete A. Turner:One of the things that we don't do well, and again, it's just like we're trying to build governments, we're trying to, you know, create these powerful militaries that can stand up on their own and we don't know how to talk to an interpreter or how to look out for their well-being. We we call them Terps, we minimize their their role and they're vital because they know more about that culture and language, whether they're Americans that have immigrated or they're locals that we hired and everything in between, they know more about all the stuff that we're doing and we just think of them as a talkie box that we you will say this this way exactly and that is not how that's not how humans talk. That's not how humans talk. And so
Cathy Worthington:It is in one
Merry Elkins:one Right.
Cathy Worthington:Slanted way they speak to somebody because they didn't quite catch the English implication can twist the whole twist the whole thing and turn it on its ear. Right? You could Yeah. Really dangerous.
Merry Elkins:Yeah. And and also, Pete, how do you find the people you can trust? How do you build trust with an interpreter Yeah. Or a local? Yeah.
Pete A. Turner:How do
Merry Elkins:you do that?
Pete A. Turner:It's so that is a great question and it's one of the hallmarks. It's one of the the tent poles in my tent is I have to build trust and I have to test it to make sure it's legitimate because we do dangerous work. And so I start with the interpreter by letting them know whether they're a local or someone who's, you know, an American or all the way all the way that entire spectrum. I can have any of those people work for me and I'm like, it's us. My job, I'm gonna take you out, we're gonna do a lot of dangerous things.
Pete A. Turner:We're gonna work hard. No one's gonna work you harder. Now, I'm gonna work harder than you because I have work that you can't do and that'll be your rest time. But when you're resting, I want you hanging out with those interpreters. I want you hearing what they're saying.
Pete A. Turner:I want you thinking about what they're what they're saying isn't real. Trying to work on that. So even when you're not working with me, you need to be in and amongst your people seeing what's going on. I want your phone ringing all the time because you're so connected to the shake network. So I'm taking that person and amplifying who I am and in a way that he can go sit and play dominoes all night and come back and be like, let me tell you what's going on in town.
Pete A. Turner:And now, I'm ahead of everybody because I've got someone who's working to improve my access, my reach. Mhmm. All of these things come on me building trust with that person. Here's what we're trying to do. Here's what we're looking for.
Pete A. Turner:You know, it's funny. The military will give me this long list of, well, here are questions the we want you to ask me. I'm like, yeah, guys were adorable. Thanks. I appreciate that.
Pete A. Turner:I I imagine you wanna know when the next attack is gonna happen. They're like, how'd you know? Like, well, because it's obvious. And so they'll have all these questions that they want me to ask, and one of them is always where are the bombs? And I'm like, the worst way to find out where the bombs are is to walk around Glendale and go, where are the bombs?
Pete A. Turner:Who are the bomb makers? Right? Like, that is the worst that will never ever ever work. But that's how our system works is we ask all these ridiculous questions and I'm like, what you want to know. You're looking for a needle in a haystack by the way.
Pete A. Turner:So if someone doesn't wanna be found, if an operation doesn't wanna be discovered, it's gonna be very hard to discover. You can spend your whole deployment looking for something that is gonna inevitably happen anyhow. So I don't look for a needle in a haystack. I look three fields over, there's a field of needles and I just scoop those needles up in the shovel, me and my interpreter and we bring them back to the commander and we go, do you want more needles? And they're like, yes.
Pete A. Turner:Where'd you get all these needles? And I'm like, well, there's a whole field of them. So I don't focus on the threat side of things. I focus on just what do we need to know that we don't know right now. And there's tons of that stuff and no one knows what those questions are.
Pete A. Turner:I mean, do, but that's because I've done this a lot. And so, I'm building trust so I can get more access to the the battle space. I can build trust faster because I'm not asking where the bombs are. I can test that trust and become normal to the locals because that's part of my job because I'm more and more and more allowing them to introduce me amongst them. So tell like, oh, you gotta meet Pete.
Pete A. Turner:So I don't obscure who I am. If if they you a spy? I say, yes. I'm a spy. And if I ask you a question you don't wanna answer, don't answer it.
Pete A. Turner:Because I'm here to help people. You're only gonna see me help. And so when they come up and they're like, Pete, gotta tell you about a secret thing, but I want you to talk to Jason over there. That guy deals with that stuff. You and me Mhmm.
Pete A. Turner:We deal with community stuff. I still want I don't need that win of finding that intel, because believe me, the the threat related things come to me, but I'd rather say that's his job and give me the other stuff. And so that makes me more trustworthy, because they're less worried about me doing something to harm them and they want more access to me because I'm helping them solve problems, which makes my commander happy because now I'm meeting people that no one else gets to meet because believe me, a lot of the senior people, they don't want to be met by the Americans. It puts them in a compromising position. So now, I've built trust to get introduced around, and then I go to these high level guys and say, how do I meet with you so that I don't create a problem for you, but also protects me?
Pete A. Turner:And those guys all know how to do that. And so Mhmm. Maybe they're like, I'll send my team over, I'll protect you, I'll take you to my house, that way no one can see us, and we'll have a conversation and I'll tell you everything. Or maybe, I'll have him come on our camp and I'm like, you'll be a VIP. No one's going to search you.
Pete A. Turner:You are a very important person and we're gonna act like that. And then I'll bring those guys on and I blow their minds on our camp. It kinda depends. But that's the trust ladder that I build. So I'm extending trust and see if when I can exchange it.
Pete A. Turner:I'm I'm not in a rush to do this. I don't assume that I have trust. I let them show me that they have trust with me, and then I elevate it, and then I elevate it. And then finally, ultimately, I'm going to places that nobody else in the American side is getting to because I'm a safe person. They trust me to work in their world, which is way more important for me than me trusting them because now, I'm an honest broker, and and everything has changed at that point.
Pete A. Turner:And it takes a while to build that network, but that's how it works.
Merry Elkins:I I have a question about Iraq and Afghanistan. And why why from your experience and wisdom, you think we lost there and what lessons should we take away?
Pete A. Turner:We lost there because we tried to do too many things too perfectly. We give ourselves a thing I call ethical saturation. And so you're in this fight with this enemy that doesn't wanna line up in front of us and and fight us toe to toe. They fight in a way that's hard for us to see. We can't see the winds that we have, but then we try to insert ourselves and say, let's let us talk to your women.
Pete A. Turner:Imagine again, let let's go to Marina Del Rey, a military unit. It's like, where are your women? We'd like to talk to your women. Like that doesn't go over well anywhere but that's what we would do. And so we would do all these things that seemed like a good idea.
Pete A. Turner:Let's teach women how to weave rugs. I'm not anti women, right? But if we're gonna do that, if we're gonna insert ourselves into that world, we damn well better know what we're doing and and be ready to extend expend the energy to learn how to do it. I I literally have seen this conversation. We need to have our female engagement team go out and meet females.
Pete A. Turner:Who's gonna be on it? And then one guy was like, well, there's Rogers. She's a woman. And that was her qualification was that she was a woman. There was no special training.
Pete A. Turner:And so now she's gonna go out into the wild with no guidance on what was important, no knowledge of what the the tribal networks were, and you just gotta start doing things and then never go back to that village. Just go one time, say a bunch of things, write a report and leave and it's like, yeah, we did well. That's that's just not good enough. You don't get to go mess with these human systems And I mean, anybody from another country coming into one of our high schools and just interrupting, showing up unannounced and saying, I'm here to help and writing a report. I mean, they just these things sounds ridiculous when you put it in our context, You know, if you were to go to Hollywood High School and just walk in unannounced and just say, I'm here.
Pete A. Turner:You know? Like, we'd be who is this insane person? So so you wanna know why we lost? That's how we acted. We acted like insane people.
Pete A. Turner:And then we did it again and again and again and again. And they're like, you guys just always do this thing. Stop showing up unannounced.
Merry Elkins:Is the military learning from this at all or not?
Pete A. Turner:I would say at the level to where we should be going places, no. We always try to learn. There's a lot of competent people. We read all the books but there are too many competing interests. We're trying to stay alive.
Pete A. Turner:We're trying to find an enemy that just wanna be found. We're trying to do all these things. And so no matter how smart you are, it's just a lot of stuff to master. Like, when I show up, I don't belong to the unit that I show up to. Right?
Pete A. Turner:Or or maybe they'll show up and I'm already there in the area of wiretight. And they don't know enough to allow me to help them. They have to get to know me. I have to build trust with us. I have to get us to make less mistakes.
Pete A. Turner:That's really where a lot of my money was made was, hey, I know you want to go paint the mosque. Slow down. We did that two units ago. Let's see if that had an impact like you think it's going to have now. And then they're like, what do you mean?
Pete A. Turner:Of course, it's gonna happen. It's in the place. It says right here. Paint the mosque, you know. And so we would just do this playbook approach and Wow.
Pete A. Turner:It does it doesn't work. It doesn't work.
Cathy Worthington:Well, I hope you're training
Merry Elkins:the gotta gotta change change the the playbook.
Cathy Worthington:I hope you're training the future military people. Do you do any training of people or you're just you're just you're too busy now probably to
Pete A. Turner:do that. Well, there's not a lot of market for it quite honestly. You know, the lessons that I have I've tried and I am working on a different part of the problem and they would rather just not deal with that problem. And and and I don't blame them. Like they they're like, we wanna get into tanks and work on being hear the slot from secretary Hengsteth, we're gonna become a lethal force again.
Pete A. Turner:Like, great. Except for who's gonna stand in front of us and fight the most lethal force. They're not gonna fight that way. And so we're still gonna have to have these other skills. And so we struggle with Mhmm.
Pete A. Turner:Look, we always struggle with what the next fight is gonna be. And so we go back to what's safe and that's how do we get into tanks? How do we set up little camps? And how do we, you know, annihilate the enemy? And so the enemy is like, let's not do that and let's go out and, you know, and and outwork us in different ways.
Pete A. Turner:So they'll compete with us through religion, politics, culture, society, and we're just like, we must be military. We must be military. And that that this doesn't work in modern modern war. Not reliably. Mean, there's elements of it that work.
Pete A. Turner:Right? There's a place for the military, the thumb, if that's the military. But all these other things, religion is critical in most of the world. Mhmm. And and we we don't see that.
Pete A. Turner:And so, no one's really interested in working. No. It's not a push. Right? And so there's money there, but you have to go chase it.
Pete A. Turner:And and frankly, it's just it's to me it's disheartening having to try to go out and and make a living doing that because they they just don't want it. They don't wanna be better at culture. You know, they just they don't.
Cathy Worthington:Well, how do you handle interviewing people whose experiences or opinions you might not agree with? This could be overseas deployed or it could be on your podcast, you know, you're I
Pete A. Turner:yeah. I do my best to let folks be folks and if what they think isn't in line with me, that's alright because that's where the conversation starts and as long as we don't run out of words, you know, we just we're talking and we're conversing and we're exchanging ideas and everything. So I don't have to agree with somebody. It might make me uncomfortable at times but that's my job, is to withstand that uncomfortable talk because we're gonna have to figure this out one way or the other. So that's how I approach that is, I let them tell me their version of it.
Pete A. Turner:And by the way, a lot of times, I don't know the first thing about what they're talking about. And so I don't get to assume that I know more about it or have the right answer. You know, maybe I'll find two experts that disagree. We see this all the time. But now I've gotta figure out how these guys oh, and these guys get along collegially because they also understand like, hey, this is what I think, but here's what I know.
Pete A. Turner:And so, I don't know. And he's kinda right over here and so these you'll see these guys kinda bargain their position. And so I just try to take a similar approach like, no, let me just hear where you think you're at. And even if I am right, even if I'm ahead of you on this, well then, how do I get you up to where I'm at? Well, it's not gonna be about being a jerk.
Pete A. Turner:It's gonna be beyond like, oh, okay. You think this. Great. You know? Oh, yeah.
Pete A. Turner:Any chance this or this is true? No. Okay. Alright. Great.
Pete A. Turner:You know, like, tell me what's going on in your world.
Merry Elkins:Mhmm. And I just let folks different, is it from bridging a cultural divide?
Pete A. Turner:Yeah.
Merry Elkins:And and and also, you know, you you it seems like you use some humor and and a lot of storytelling. How do you what is that role?
Pete A. Turner:Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to create I guess the best way to see this, I'm trying to create affects. A F F E C T, not effects. I'm looking for emotional response to the stimuli that I create and if I need to change direction or if I need to, you know, lighten the mood, if I need to get serious, I'm going to adjust how I speak or the tools that I use to create that affect. And so if I'm with a shake and I'm talking over them and I'm being belligerent and I'm dominating the conversation, well, that's not the best way to talk to a sheikh.
Pete A. Turner:Mhmm. And even if
Merry Elkins:I only
Pete A. Turner:or anyone. 200 words. Right. No. Right.
Pete A. Turner:Exactly. And if I want something from this person, I've got to learn how to win that person over. It's all part of this trustworthy thing. And again, I've gotta be genuine. I'm not trying to manipulate, but manipulation is what's going on.
Pete A. Turner:Right? So I'm trying to create a world where they're comfortable and capable of receiving the message that I'm giving, and I have to put myself in their world. It's it's a liminal it's a concept called liminal space, liminal time. So I have to try to get comfortable in their world as fast as I can so I can understand how they make decisions and and and what they want. And if I can understand those things and I can put my mission within their paradigm, that is great because I don't have to force them to my paradigm, my culture.
Pete A. Turner:And so I'm trying to understand where they're at, what's possible for them. If it's digging a well and they're like, no, you can't dig a well here. Okay. Great. That's where we're starting.
Pete A. Turner:Why? When? How? All these other questions on that. And then I gotta go back to us and say, hey, forget them wells for a while.
Pete A. Turner:We got some work to do. And then Yeah. I have to have the trust with us to have us say, okay, Pete, we trust you. Yeah. Go work on that and figure out because we don't wanna get things wrong, but we also wanna do things.
Pete A. Turner:And so how do I get the military to do less things? All of this goes into that concept of how do I create the affect I want. I wanna build trust. I wanna be useful to these people. I wanna create value.
Pete A. Turner:I want them to like me. So humor is storytelling, that's that's part of all of it. But also relatability, you know. I've used a couple of regional examples when we've talked in Marina Del Rey, Glendale, because I know that that's comfortable for us to talk about that. And so I'm putting these fence posts down so that we are closer to you like, oh, we all have the same kind of thing.
Pete A. Turner:Oh, yeah. And so I'm doing that on purpose to create relatability. These are all these concepts that go into what I think spies do.
Cathy Worthington:And Pete, how do you stay grounded after living such an unpredictable and intense life?
Merry Elkins:A lot
Cathy Worthington:of What's your go to? Therapy?
Pete A. Turner:Yeah. I mean therapy meditation. I've had to well, just CB cognitive behavioral therapy, I've done a lot of that, a lot of meditation. I lost connection with what reality was because I lived in this crazy combat world. And so when I got into the world of having to stand in line and wait your turn, I didn't like it.
Pete A. Turner:And so my body is responding in a physical way that I can't control and I'm getting shots of cortisol because I think there's danger everywhere. And and then I'm like, oh, that's right. I live in Orange County. It's actually pretty nice here. I don't have to worry about that.
Pete A. Turner:So how do I get my physical automatic response to calm down? And so, yeah. I had to do a lot of and I still have to do a lot of of work to keep myself in a a calmer state because it's not as dangerous here as as my brain or my body thinks it is, you know? And I'm not special. I'm just a regular person and I've I've become accustomed to even though I get to these incredible things, you know, I am I'm not in a combat setting where you have to be assertive at every turn and and out compete.
Pete A. Turner:I I can do things in a different way.
Merry Elkins:Yeah. Wow, Pete. Well, just quickly, what's next for you? Another book? Another adventure?
Merry Elkins:Something different?
Pete A. Turner:Yeah. Yeah. I the show has turned me into a movie producer or documentary and documentary producer. Yeah. And so I just I continue to make inroads into these markets and I've realized I have people that have great stories and access to them and I have people that want great stories and and have limited access.
Pete A. Turner:And so I have a new portal between these places and so in my producer world, I'm trying to bridge these things and build teams and connect to money so that I can take all the advantages that my show is giving me and turn them into bigger, more complex projects. Not a bit of this is easy of course, but you know, it's Mhmm. It's just a a very obvious that I would get into this world and it continues to take more and more of my time.
Cathy Worthington:Pete, thanks so much for sharing your incredible insights and stories with us today.
Merry Elkins:Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you for having me.
Pete A. Turner:It's wonderful. Yeah.
Merry Elkins:Thank you. And thank you to our listeners as well for joining us on Late Boomers. Don't forget to subscribe and follow us on Instagram and YouTube for more inspiring conversations like Pete a Turners.
Cathy Worthington:Yeah. And you can find him on YouTube. How do you do it? Peteyoutube.com/peteaturner. Right?
Pete A. Turner:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pete a turner on all those things. I'm glad to be helpful.
Pete A. Turner:Glad to help anybody out with their podcast and that that's what I do. And so thank you ladies for having me on. It's wonderful. Yeah. Pete a turner.
Pete A. Turner:Peter break it down show dot com if you need to email me. Glad to talk to you about whatever you need. And, yeah, and good luck to you all. And ladies, thank you all for having me on the show. I mean, it's I know what it means to put these things together.
Pete A. Turner:So it means a lot to me that you took the time to have me on.
Merry Elkins:It's been great for us too. Thank you.
Cathy Worthington:And late boomers listeners, until next time. Keep creating your own powerful new chapters in life. Thank you for joining us on late boomers, the podcast that is your guide to creating a third act with style, power, and impact. Please visit our website and get in touch with us at late boomers dot us. If you would like to listen to or download other episodes of late boomers, go to ewnpodcastnetwork.com.
Merry Elkins:This podcast is also available on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and most other major podcast sites. We hope you make use of the wisdom you've gained here and that you enjoy a successful third act with your own style, power, and impact.