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HPE News. Tech Insights. World-Class Innovations. We take you straight to the source — interviewing tech's foremost thought leaders and change-makers that are propelling businesses and industries forward.
Michael:
Hello, hello, hello, and a very big welcome to Technology Now, a weekly show from Hewlett Packard Enterprise, where we take what's happening in the world around us and explore how it's changing the way organizations are using technology. We're your hosts, Michael Bird...
Aubrey:
And Aubrey Lovell and in this episode we're exploring the world of eSports and what organizations can learn from one of the fastest growing entertainment platforms on the planet. We'll be exploring tapping into new audiences and looking at the tech that makes eSports possible. We'll also be discussing what traditional organizations can learn from the quickly evolving and ever-changing world of eSports. And once again, if you haven't already, give us a subscribe on your podcast app of choice so you can stay connected. Okay. My inner gaming nerd is screaming. Let's do this.
Michael:
All right, so before we introduce today's guest, let's take a quick look at what eSports is and why it is so exciting and I guess why we're talking about it today. In a nutshell, eSports is multiplayer competitive video gaming performed for the entertainment of spectators. And if you are of an age where you're asking, "Well, who's watching other people play games?", the numbers will probably surprise you. In 2022, somewhere between 300 and 500 million people globally watched eSports events in one form or another, which sort of makes sense. I spent a fair chunk of my teenage years playing video games with friends, taking it in turns to play until one of us lost, at which point we would just sit and watch. So suffice to say, I didn't really play much, I wasn't very good at it, because there were some friends who were just very, very, very, very good at whatever game we were playing. Looking at you, Sam and Dale. Aubrey, what were your games of choice?
Aubrey:
I've never been very good at Call of Duty, but I will say I could definitely win on Fortnite, so if anyone wants to play with me, let me know. Anyway, the insane numbers are reflected in some of those pretty hefty prize pods. DotA 2, one of the most popular games amongst fans and competitive players has an estimated prize pool of over 40 million annually across the various leagues and tournaments. So obviously big, big numbers. That means that there's big money for players too, right? Around 150 of them took home more than a million dollars each in winnings in 2022. So, how has a once niche hobby of competitive gaming become a professionalized global industry worth billions of dollars? And what can the rest of us learn from the way eSports organizations are doing things? Well, joining us today is Nicole LaPointe Jameson, CEO of Evil Geniuses. Nicole, thank you so much for joining us.
Nicole LaPointe Jameson:
Thank you for having me. Great to be here.
Aubrey:
Nicole, why do you think eSports has gone from relatively niche to mainstream in the space of just a few years?
Nicole LaPointe Jameson:
Well, I have to give credit where credit is due. Gaming, I think maybe has historically been, has some social connotations, but has never really been niche, especially when you expand to tabletop mediums, card games. eSports is the pinnacle of the top of the line athletic performance of some of the digital games that you can play. And the unfortunately/fortunately, the COVID pandemic where the whole world turned online at home, the understanding and awareness of this digital community spread farther and wider than it has done so historically. And so, the openness and accessibility of a space that has been around for some time but now has skyrocketed in mainstream dialogue and conversation, definitely due to people being more open-minded as well as kids who were gamers are now parents who are gamers, and the acceptance of, my kid will play games is on the rise.
Michael:
So eSports has professionalized pretty rapidly. What did things previously look like and where are they headed now?
Nicole LaPointe Jameson:
Well, I have to caveat, I've been with Evil Geniuses for four years. And while four years seems like a long time in this space, prior to myself, EGs' actually been around since 1999. We're one of the oldest eSports organizations in the world. And eSports has, especially in EGs' history, gone from really pure passion play, no expectation of financial stability or a security net through being a player for EG, to now it being a really full fledged career, that not just can bring you to opportunities within eSports, but opportunities in gaming and tech and STEM. You can be a salesperson in eSports or an HR leader in eSports. Those are very, very new positions. Many positions that we were first movers in, including one of the first paid internship programs in eSports, those did not exist years ago.
On the athletic side, I even think the terminology of athletics is a relatively new one for eSports. The notion of a player, pure player versus an athlete is something that we take super seriously here at EG, because physical, mental health, wellness, nutrition, all big drivers of output on the gaming side that we definitely want to make sure are not lost and we're intentional with our wording interactions.
Michael:
Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, using the phrase athlete isn't something that you'd necessarily associate with eSports.
Nicole LaPointe Jameson:
Even today, someone will usually poke like, "Why do you use the word athlete? They just sit in a chair, right?" I'm like, "Oh goodness. How far do I want to go with this?"
Aubrey:
It's estimated that only about five to 10% of eSports players are women. What can the industry do to redress the balance?
Nicole LaPointe Jameson:
This is the craziest thing for me. Coming in, I am a woman. When you see less than 10% of pro players being female and female identifying, despite in the US over 45% of gamers are women, that delta and opportunity is mind boggling. And there's a lot of probable reasons that I'm sure exist and that we even observe in our day-to-day that fuel that discrepancy, but it's a missed opportunity. And so, if someone doesn't understand why that's problematic, whether it's culturally, commercially, or even competitively, are you getting the best of all potential talent if half of your population is not matriculating? I challenge someone to think differently around if it's not self-evident in the issue that poses.
That being said, the space has had a lot of growing up to do, from it being a viable salaried career to even having the infrastructure for you to live comfortably. If your team is all male and you're a woman, it's harder to live with people in a gaming house, which was very common 10 years ago. These are the nuances that might sound silly, but really matter in someone's decision making, especially when, we love our space, we're humble enough to understand that this is a non-traditional career path still. And so, how you attract talent that doesn't feel or see they have a home in this space is critical.
And I have to say, I've been pleased with the progress leagues are creating women's leagues to hopefully help create the matriculation. So at the end of the day, they don't need to be separate gendered leagues in this sport. Teams are investing in hiring in different ways and from different backgrounds, but it takes time to ensure you're creating the right practices and creating safe procedures and processes for any person who doesn't feel like they're represented in the mainstream of this space.
Aubrey:
From a female CEO point of view, what's working in terms of diversity in eSports and what needs to be done to level the playing field?
Nicole LaPointe Jameson:
It's a very interesting problem, in that what trends does gaming compound, but what do we also do differently? One of the beauties of this space is, at the end of the day it's not inherently gendered. But when gaming tends to, and I'll use a specific example. When we're hiring software engineers for helping our gaming athletics, we are impacted not just with some of the cultural barriers that you find in the gaming community, but then you add on women in engineering, or you might add women in sales or women in marketing or whatever way you slice the pie for diversity. We are really hit with, because there hasn't been a longstanding historic pipeline of focused talent from in-game to boardroom, we feed off of other industries. Especially us in Seattle, we kind of joke internally. We scoop up all the Microsoft and Amazon escapees and that's half of EG workforce. And so, we are hit with the doubling effect of other pipelines that have or don't have representation in them.
I've been really proud in my four years at EG, EGs' actually 60% females in leadership, about 40% female in staff. We are actually one of the most female followed eSports organizations in the world, but that came from me being employee one that was female. And so, it takes time to build, because it's also something no one on in both directions wants to feel like they're there because of their identity and not their merit. And you also want to make sure as an employer, you're hiring the best people. And so, it requires that balance and that thoughtful intentionality of recruiting in a way and attracting talent in a way that isn't just checking the box of identity, but making sure what you do and what you practice naturally fosters innovators, differentiators, diverse people to come to the fold. And that took us a while to build and learn and iterate and create bespokeness to adjust to the space.
Aubrey:
What can more traditional organizations learn from the way eSports groups are forging their own path and impacting their industry?
Nicole LaPointe Jameson:
First of all, gaming is kind of like fashion and music. It's an anchor, it's a staple and it is broad and deep. But also, Gen Z, Gen Alpha consume content really differently, where the advertising and marketing and content mediums and representation that worked 10 years ago, especially in, or even 20 in the early dotcom era, era don't really work for this generation. And so, how do you not just move incrementally forward, but take that big step forward to continue to be relevant? As standing still right now is moving backwards in the digital media space and embracing the platform of gaming and the behaviors of gaming's consumers are a huge competitive edge where you see those breakout brands that really have been smart to this, move forward at amazing pace, and my shameless plug, working with eSports organizations can help you bridge that gap.
Michael (10:53):
Thanks, Nicole. That's given us all something to think about and we'll drop some useful links about some of the stuff that we've been discussing in the show notes. And we'll be back in a moment with our questions for Nicole from the audience, so don't go anywhere.
Aubrey:
All right, it's book club time. We are opening up the floor for you to give your recommendations on books which have changed the way you look at the world life and business in the last year.
Michael:
And if you want to share your recommendations, there's a link in the podcast description, just record a voice note on your phone and send it over. Let's just roll the clip.
Doug Koethe:
Doug Koethe here, a Scientist at Oak Ridge National Lab. Think like a Monk by Jay Shetty, I've found very interesting, that's been very introspective. And I often read books about best practices and lessons learned about leadership. And in particular, I like Pat Lencioni's series of books. Five Dysfunctions of A Team is one that I'm currently reading with a colleague of mine. So, I tend to span those spaces in addition to science textbooks that I won't get into. But as a scientist, whether we lead science or do science, we need to say sharp on our game, and computing is a really fast moving area. So, I am reading a lot of artificial intelligence and machine learning textbooks as well to keep up with the field and stay sharp.
Aubrey:
All right, this is where it gets even more fun. It's time for questions from the audience. You, our listeners have been sending in your questions to Nicole on the topic of eSports. Our first question comes from Erin from Houston, Texas. She wants to know whether eSports is breaking down traditional gender gaps in the sporting and tech world.
Nicole LaPointe Jameson:
It's a little bit of a reverse of a topic we brought up, but I would say, probably yes. Because again, going back to the fact that our sport isn't inherently gendered, the audience is very diverse. There's a demand for representation and pipeline for underrepresented audience and participants in gaming to show up in eSports. So there's definitely interest. You couple that with the fact that Gen Z, young Millennials are increasingly open-minded around accessibility in the workplace and inclusion in the workplace, which is a lot of the eSports workforce. And so I think, three years from now will continue to be a first mover in inclusion and push the narrative forward around who is a face of gaming, which is super exciting.
I also hope I'm, humble brag, EG was one of the first teams to have a mixed gender roster compete in a first person shooter title. And I'm really hoping with our work that we're doing with our women's teams and how we're integrating our women's teams with our men's team's scrims, we can continue to be a driver in breaking down the even concept of separate women's and men's leagues and just have the best stinking athletes out on the stage.
Michael:
And Ben from Glasgow would like to know whether you think there's a role for VR and AR and eSports and why, or maybe why not?
Nicole LaPointe Jameson:
Oh, this is a tough one. This is very much a personal bias answer versus a very data-driven answer. Someone who personally loves VR and spends way too much time downloading immersive mods to play games that make me nauseous eight minutes later. The technology in AR and VR is amazing. We have a huge chicken and the egg problem, where an eSports team is not going to spend a bunch of money to create a VR team because there will be inherent differences in even the infrastructure set up for our training rooms for a VR team versus a PC or a console team when there's no league to play in and no money or revenue associated with it.
So someone's going to have to make the first move of, "I believe in this technology. We're going to fund it, we're going to support it and bring it to life." And then teams will come, athletes will come for sure. But I am probably not the right first mover constituent in that space. I'm excited for VR and AR though, I think that the technology especially has gotten so amazingly good in the past even two years, and VTubers and VR Chat are very popular now in the creator community. How we continue to see that matriculate over to the competitive side will be interesting.
Michael:
Brilliant. Well, thank you Nicole. And again, we'll drop a couple of links in the podcast description for more information on these topics.
Aubrey:
Okay, we're getting towards the end of the show, which you know what that means. It's time for, This Weekend History.
Michael:
This Weekend History.
Aubrey (15:42):
A look at monumental events in the world of business and technology, which has changed our lives.
Michael (15:48):
So the clue from last week was, I love apples. Did you get it? Well, the clue was really in the letter, I. Yes, it was the unveiling of the iMac this week in 1998. Steve Jobs described it as the internet age computer for the rest of us and with its sleek design and very, very '90s, but very cool opaque blue case, it was an immediate hit. The computer sold 150,000 pre-orders before launch and it started Apple's Renaissance, as well as being the first time they just stuck the letter in front of something. Don't worry, it'll never catch on. Anyway, next week the clue is, Gary's feeling blue. I think I've got an idea, and if you do keep a [inaudible 00:16:37], don't tell your friends.
Aubrey:
All right. That brings us to the end of Technology Now for this week.
Michael:
Thank you to our guest, Nicole LaPointe Jameson. And of course, thank you all so much for listening. Technology Now is hosted by myself, Michael Bird and Aubrey Lovell, and is produced by Sam Duta Paulin and Zoe Anderson with production support from Harry Morton, Alicia Kempson, Alison Paisley, Alex Podmore, and Ed Everston. Technology Now is a Lower Street Production for Hewlett Packard Enterprise. And we'll see you next week. Ta-ta.
Aubrey:
Cheers.