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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of parenting in youth sports in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
Matt, we've become so famous in our,
we, this is the twin peaks of soccer podcast
is now that we have older episodes that refer to new
episodes and there's a layer of things to figure out.
So we had, remember the Farr family?
They came on this show and they told us about this thing called prep school.
My eyes opened up.
They told us about this.
utopia of sports and kids in green
grass.
And at the end, you end up in a D1 school.
And guess what?
We got the guy right here.
Yeah, so the concept of prep school wasn't new to me, but the concept,
the concept of prep school competitive
soccer year round was new to me, and
coach Jon Moodey from Northwood in
Lake Placid, New York, came on and shared, I
don't know, what I thought was pretty incredible, what he's built, both
from a prep school perspective, a club that's attached
to it called Black Rock, where these kids transition
after the prep school year, moved directly into
They play showcases around the country.
There are at very high levels.
They train 10 months a year, and are hyper
focused on development, developing great players,
developing great humans and trying to put them on the best path
to college, to be student athletes that they possibly can.
Yeah, I mean, there's a reason why we call this chasing the
game youth soccer in America, because what's America about, one more chance?
Liron: Jon, welcome to Chasing the Game.
It's great having you here, and,
I'm gonna go straight to it.
And, I, I'm a big man that I like to
admit when I don't know things or hear
about them for the first time, and this
was an episode a few months ago where I
heard the word prep school and soccer,
and I said, "Wait a minute, I have
no idea what they're talking about."
We did some research, and, your name
came up in that episode and the school
and what it's about, and I just wonder
maybe you could put it into summarize
what is actually Northwood and what
happens to a child that joins that school.
Jon: Yeah.
Northwood is a prep school and, it's,
it's based in Lake Placid, New York.
it's got a sporting history up here.
It's, in the Olympic Village of Lake
Placid, and with that came some popularity
with alpine skiing and ice hockey.
So it's got a rich history
in those two sports.
and, nine years ago, I was approached
about starting a soccer program up
here, which is kind of, different.
in Lake Placid, there's
not a big soccer scene.
but I knew, I knew the people that
were working here in the leadership
team at the school, and I had
worked with them before at Berkshire
School where I worked previously.
And they kind of recruited me up here to
build a soccer program similar to what I
had built, when I was there at Berkshire.
And so Northwood is a boarding school,
180, 190 students, boys and girls
from over 25 countries, probably
close to 20 states, 15 states.
People come from all over to, pursue
the boarding experience, the prep
school education, and in this case, the
high-level sports that the school offers
Matt: That's great.
So for a high school freshman or
for a transfer, what does the full
school year soccer program look like?
Because if you're, if you're leaving a
highly competitive, let's call it elite
academy environment to go
to Northwood, I would imagine that there's
somewhat of a trade-off or maybe not.
and if not, that's probably
why kids are attending.
So what does, what does that look
like as far as the high school season?
Are you in a league beyond that?
What does the training
environment look like and what
kind of kids are you drawing?
Jon: Our program is unique.
we kind of in the Northeast pioneered
a year-round soccer academy where kids
could have the opportunity to pursue
their soccer, from the start to the
finish of the school year, about 10
months, a little less than 10 months
of, continuous training and competition.
and so that is unique.
There, you know, 98% of the
boarding schools in the US have
a traditional three-sport model,
you know, where you are encouraged
or mandated to play three sports.
That's very, you know, a normal model.
there has been a lot of pressure in recent
years for schools to, you know, embrace
a bit more of specialization, where
kids can pursue their sport of interest
or activity, could be dance or could
be something else, throughout the year
instead of sort of being mandated into
participation in other sports, seasonally.
And so Northwood, when we looked
at building out this residential
academy model that we did, with Black
Rock, the club that I started, we
wanted to find a school that wanted
or was willing or had some comfort
level with specialized sports.
And Northwood's history, they were
a little bit of an outlier in that
they embraced more of a specialized
model with hockey and alpine
skiing, producing many Olympians
and NHL players over their years.
And, they wanted to do the same with
soccer, so it aligned really well with,
what I was looking to do in terms of
my next step in the prep school realm.
Liron: So just so I really
understand the structure,
before we talk about, you know,
success stories, and I, you know,
obviously there's, a lot of them.
But is this essentially a prep school
for sports, and specifically soccer?
Is this another chance for a
kid to get seen, recruited?
Or what is the actual goal
here for these families?
Jon: Yeah, I think the most important--
Well, families are attracted to
our program for different reasons.
and I could try to break those
down into different parts for you,
but I think one of the things,
is people like boarding school.
You know, there's a certain grouping
of people throughout the world, you
know, that go to boarding schools
or want their children to go for
the good education, small classes,
teachers who live on campus, extra
help available, good community kind
of building, leadership training.
But what was missing was the
opportunity to pair that with sort
of a very focused sports environment.
So our school is a traditional
boarding school, but it does embrace
that specialization, and the kids
are playing similar to what they
would do in any, high-level academy.
They're playing year-round, they're
training daily, they're doing strength and
conditioning, they're doing film sessions.
And, there's a lot of other aspects to
how those two come together to better
support the development and the, I guess
the outward trajectory of their sons and
daughters', you know, future pathways
with college sports and even professional
Matt: So back to what the soccer
season actually looks like.
So in the fall you're playing
other traditional prep schools or
prep schools that specialize in a
soccer-like academy and environment
like you've described and like you've
built and described at Northwood,
and then once that ends, where do you
actually get the type of competition
that sounds like these kids need to
continue to thrive and push themselves?
Jon: Yeah.
So our model, even within the model
of prep schools or even specialized,
sports soccer programs in prep
schools that have evolved, our model,
I think, is even more distinct in
that we're completely independent.
We do not play in any league.
that is by choice.
We want to be independent.
When we travel, we travel
to showcases and tournaments
throughout the United States.
so in the fall, we do focus on
prep schools and, the Northeast
and the kinda Mid-Atlantic states
have lots of boarding and prep
schools and some very good programs.
So most of our energy in the
fall is, playing prep schools.
We wear the Northwood kits.
we play in prep showcases and different
events, some of which I help to construct.
There's lots of different things going
on in the fall, to help provide, some
good crossover competition between
prep schools from different markets,
as well as college recruitment, which
is a big part of, you know, the end
game for a lot of these kids is trying
to get placed into these schools.
And then when the prep school season,
the traditional prep school season
tapers down in early November or
mid-November, it's pretty much over.
We just literally change our kits
and put on our Black Rock uniforms.
same coaches, same players,
same fields, same thing.
We just change our uniforms, and
we then begin playing club events.
so from November, all the way
till the, school lets out in,
late May, we're representing
Black Rock in club competition.
So the program here is actually
branded as the Black Rock Residential
Academy at Northwood School.
Matt: Oh, fascinating.
Liron: And for people who don't know,
Black Rock is a USL2, team, right?
it's a
Jon: It's a club I started, in 2013
to better support prep school kids.
And that is a long conversation,
which I can take you into.
But, there was a missing, place in prep
schools for motivated soccer players
specifically that wanted more than a
traditional prep season would offer.
So what we did is we created an
off-season vehicle called Black
Rock FC, which allowed players to
basically play some Sunday soccer.
Liron: Let's, like I said, we'll
bring a success story, but, we're
gonna join it with a word that
comes up a lot in this podcast, and
that's recruitment and scouting.
So, we had an interview here with
the Farr family, and, Don, who is
a, who's… Ryan is, Ryan is the
kid, he's an exceptional athlete.
Don told us about your school
and how much it helped his son.
But he said, and I quote, he said
that when you first met, he was--
you were skeptical about Ryan.
So Ryan was an exceptional athlete,
Matt: Had never fully focused on soccer.
It was an incredible basketball player.
Yeah, yeah
Liron: In very late into the game.
Matt: Into the game.
Liron: Do you recall that
story, and why was that?
Jon: Well, I don't think I was, I
don't think I was entirely skeptical.
I liked Ryan.
I had seen him play.
We played against the New York Elite
Alleycats, which was his former club.
And I knew Ryan was a really
competitive kid and a good athlete
and pretty effective soccer player.
so you know, when he approached us,
yeah, there was that conversation.
We don't take many one-year
students, in the post-grad program.
That is, some schools specialize.
Some schools like Bridgton
Academy, for instance, are,
you know, entirely, post-grads.
They have a whole school for
football, basketball, and it's
all kids doing a gap year before
college, like a steppingstone year.
most of the normal prep schools,
do offer a post-graduate program.
So some schools will, you know, in--
let's take soccer for example, will,
you know, bring in four or five, six
post-grads to, you know, bring in
more experience, a little bit older.
Guys come in who are, for whatever reason,
needing a steppingstone, a little bit
more time to, you know, I don't know,
mature as a student or an athlete, what
have you, expand their college options.
our model's a little different.
We do offer post-grads,
and Ryan was one of them.
Like I said, we take one or two a year.
our emphasis is on more of
a developmental pathway.
we look for a lot of ninth graders.
That's what we wanna do.
We have an under 17
and under 19 structure.
the competitive nature of
those two pair well with clubs.
We, are able to go to a lot of
club competitions and put our
17s against 17s, U17s from other,
you know, MLS or ECNL clubs.
so we have always found our best
results come with kids who are
here over a longer duration.
So four-year students, which is
sort of, you know, optimal for
us, is always preferred, and
where we see our most success.
Then three years, two years and one.
But Ryan was one of those guys
where it kinda lined up because he
was a very high-performance athlete
in three sports and was impressive
enough as a soccer player for me
to want to, you know, bring him in.
But what I loved most about Ryan in,
you know, terms of a recruitment journey
was just he is a fierce competitor,
and I knew whatever he was lacking in
terms of sort of soccer refinement,
he would, you know, help us and
make us better just because of his
competitive example that he provided.
You know, he's a real team player, too,
but I knew day in and day out Ryan was
gonna give us a competitive edge, and he
certainly did that, and he improved a lot
Liron: So I'm starting to
kinda get a clear picture of this.
So for this, for the Farr family, in
this particular example, there was a
also a risk factor here, let's just say.
in the beginning they were say, the dad
said that, Ryan was on the bench.
So for them, if let's say they
see this, as you said, a window of
showcasing maybe, or a window to get
ready for, a bigger college adventure,
every week a kid sits on the bench is
one less week for them to showcase.
So in that sense, now I'm starting to
understand, and that's part of the risk to
go to a competitive environment like that
Jon: Yeah.
You know, and honestly, we would
say ahead of, the thing that I say
is our focus here is development.
And for Ryan, who was in a smaller market,
you know, at Saratoga High, and, you know,
where things-- he was the, you know, the
top athlete kind of across programs there.
For him to be challenged
was kind of what he needed.
And nothing challenges a very
competitive athlete like, you
know, coming off the bench.
You know, Ryan's used to starting
and being the man, and having
to work for that, which he did.
He earned that and became very reliable.
but that's part of his growth curve,
and I think, you know, what helped
Ryan, you know, go on and, you
know, be effective as a first-year
player in a Division I college.
Matt: Yeah, it's an, it's
a, it's an incredible story
Jon: Yeah, so development
comes in many different ways.
and, you know, our development
model is not just what they're
doing on the soccer field.
You have to recall this is a boarding
school, so we get to work with our
players sort of around the clock.
and I think foundationally the things
that allow, student-athletes to go on and
find success, to not only be recruited,
but to be successful is a big thing.
To be successful in college out of
the blocks, there's a lot of work
that goes into it, and a lot of it's
foundational stuff in terms of habits.
And we are in a position where, as
coaches and mentors in the lives of
our student-athletes, we can, you
know, sort of can create a somewhat
of a controlled environment, right?
The structure of a boarding school,
breakfast is at 7:00 AM every day,
you know, and classes start at 8:00,
and there's study hall at night.
I can call meetings for our players
if we want to do a film session.
we have strength and conditioning
sessions before training.
we're able to meet with them and work with
them on either a team or individual basis.
Like other coaches, whose kids go
home at the end of training or the
end of the school day, or just pop in
and out for their club experience, we
work on sort of a more holistic model.
And trust me, like, development
for us includes things like
holding the door for a guest when
they come to visit the school.
It comes… it's, it's clearing your
tray at the dining hall and cleaning up
after yourself, pushing your chair in.
the stated model of our club,
Black Rock, is, sort of helping young
men and women further their life
opportunities through the game of soccer.
And in order to do that, you gotta
take care of the groundwork, the
foundational stuff that we believe leads
to success in life, on the field and off.
And so that's kinda what our model is,
and that's how we work with our players
in a very deliberate way on and off the
field to kinda help them reach their
optimal, outcomes for their future.
Matt: We're in New York, so it's maybe
somewhat unique to our market, but I mean,
our kids commute up to three hours a day
and from training, and to and from school,
to and from school, and then you're
playing for an hour and 40 minutes, right?
And, so the day starts at 7:30
in the morning to get to school, and
you're coming home at 9:00 at night.
and you're doing your homework on the, on
the subway . And, you know, and the chance
to even do the strength and conditioning
stuff you wanna do or to watch the film
you wanna watch, it's not always there.
and look, I think it also just wears a lot
of kids down to the point where especially
when you're seeing kids drop off, where
they look at it and they say, "God, I
love to play, but I've got nothing else…
I have nothing else going on in my life
because 90% of my effort is related
to getting to and from." You know?
And maybe it's not 90%,
but it's a big portion
Jon: Every hour you're riding
the subway or you're commuting
to and from school to club.
Here, that doesn't happen.
they can literally walk 50 yards
from the dining hall to the field,
to the classroom for extra help with
teachers, to meet with their coaches.
So when you think about how do you,
you go from good to great to, I don't
know, exceptional, some of it comes
down to the opportunities you have
in front of you, and we present them
with great opportunities because they
can kind of access different ways
of development throughout the day.
If it's working with the college
counselor on their recruitment process,
or meeting with me to discuss different
college options, or write a college
email, or work on your highlights.
They have all of these
tools at their disposal.
Matt: You mentioned 45, 45 kids, 45
Jon: That's what we have this year, yeah.
I mean, it's roughly rosters of 22,
Matt: How does that work at the high
school for during the high school
Jon: That's a good question.
Um, so our under 19s, um, play
the top, let's call them Class A
or other, um, kind of residential
academy-type programs like ours.
Uh, so they'll play the best
of the best in the preps.
Um, and then our under 17s, which
are mainly ninth and 10th graders,
will play other varsity teams.
Typically what in New England
is like the Class B teams.
They're good.
There's four divisions, Class A, B,
C, D, and the B division is very good,
and our 17s tend to pair up well with
good Class B playoff-bound teams.
So that's kinda how we pair when
we go to tournaments and showcases
in the fall during the prep season.
We schedule, um, our 17s to play Class B
and our 19s to play Class A or other sort
of year-round models that are emerging
Matt: I mean, it, it sounds, um,
back to it's sounding too good
to be true, but it really does.
I mean, because you're challenging
the, the U17s to play probably
bigger, stronger, faster kids.
So from a development perspective,
they may not be there physically, but
they have to figure out how to play the
right way technically and tactically.
And then the U19s are playing,
at an even higher level, so it's
fairly even from that point of view.
Do you ever have the freshmen or
sophomores play U19 if they're good
enough, or do you keep them all together?
Jon: It's by age the pairings work pretty
well in the fall, and most of what we do
in the fall is, again, prep showcases.
There's a whole circuit of prep showcases
that have emerged as a growing sort of
market for what prep school kids want.
the home and away matches with, two prep
schools doesn't attract college coaches.
But if you pool top prep schools
together, you can get 25 to 50
college coaches to come look.
Matt: I heard in the fall when the
coach, college coaches are actually
coaching and in season, having showcases
is really difficult to pull off.
So how do you guys pull that off?
Jon: Yeah.
So I run one called the NXT LVL
Soccer Invitational, along with a guy named
Sheldon Shealer, who I work with on that.
that attracts 54 prep schools.
we play Friday, Saturday, and Sunday,
and typically get about 100 college
scouts there to look at our players.
And so we play-- our nineteens play
three matches, our seventeens play
three matches, and we got top colleges.
You get schools, Wake Forest, you
get Stanford, you get Notre Dame.
School, big schools coming
to check these kids out
Matt: And part of that I would
imagine is because not that
every kid that goes to prep school
is a strong academic performer.
However, there's probably a large majority
that are with the structure, the small
classes, the attention to the academics.
So for those top schools, both
academically and soccer-wise,
it makes a lot of sense to be in
that environment as much as they
Jon: Yeah, it makes for a safer recruit
because most of the kids going to boarding
school have to be more independent.
They have to get to places on time.
They have to be self-advocates,
schedule their meetings.
They gotta-- They're taking
pretty aggressive course loads.
they're learning to manage themselves
as student athletes, in a way
that sometimes doesn't happen,
you know, in other environments.
So yeah, I think when a college coach
looks at a prep, a high-level prep
school player, maybe even in contrast
with a player who isn't coming from a
prep school background, they might say,
if the soccer side is good, like this
one's a little bit of a safer bet because
they've been away from home for three
years, and we know that prep school.
They've got a good history of
producing players who are successful.
Less management, less onboarding for us.
Like these kids, they're
used to study hall at night.
They're used to discipline structure.
and I think that's a fair take
Matt: Yeah.
Look at Liron looks like he's in shock.
I wanna say, I mean, he's
sitting there processing it all.
I've never heard… I
Liron: I was in shock when I
heard about it six months ago, and
now it's all coming back again.
And, I, maybe there'll be one episode that
my wife will listen to on this podcast.
So, I mean,
Jon: I told you I'm looking
for a 2011 goalie, Liron.
Liron: Tell you, I got a big one for you.
So even more because the… Let's
call this the Liron's wife special.
Why don't you, tell us a little bit
about your most recent graduating class?
Jon: Yeah.
Liron: I don't know.
Give us a little bit of a picture,
like, what colleges kids go to.
do any go pro?
How does that work for
the soccer environment?
Jon: We have the majority of our top half
players, like let's say we're graduating
10 players, 12 players a year, which is
probably about the normal, sometimes 14.
and then the other ones are
migrating upward into the
under 19s from the under 17s.
we're typically seeing anywhere from
five to seven Division One players.
we've had as many in one year as, you
know, 12 coming out, out of a class of 14.
So there are also kids who are just
either aligned or wanting to go to
really strong Division Three programs.
we've, we've had kids, our goalie
right now from a couple years
ago is at Middlebury College.
I think they might be number
one or they're, they're,
they're up in the top 10.
You know, it's a, it's a little Ivy.
They're getting a great education
Matt: Yeah, those
NESCAC schools are incredibly
incredible academically,
and the soccer is really strong
Jon: Yeah, and so like he chose there.
he wanted to get into that
type of a school environment.
A lot of our boys come in really
ambitiously thinking that Division
I is the, you know, the end goal
if they're successful, and maybe
Division II or Division III isn't.
But they're all kinda keyed in on,
like going to college, and they
will all go and be student athletes.
That's another cool feature
is like you can't miss here.
You're gonna go play college soccer.
The question is, are you gonna play
Division I and be a full scholarship
guy, or are you gonna eke into, a
lower level Division III roster?
And we got players, and I think, the top
prep programs will have players who are
kind of reaching into all those spaces.
A lot of the kids who come here are
trying to get to where soccer and
academics meet at the highest points.
So like a Middlebury, I
wouldn't, I don't wanna
Like if you took a lower level Division
I program that had, you know, I don't
know, subpar academics or something like
that, most of our kids would pick the
Middlebury for sure, like in a heartbeat.
because they know I'm probably
not pro bound and I need to use my
soccer to get a great education.
So I find that a lot of our players
are kind of in that in-between space,
and I think that at least my counsel
is always find the best place, you
know, where you can have a positive
soccer experience, coach who knows
you, and get a great education.
And then for our top players who
are getting full scholarships
to top universities, you know,
you-- the pro door is open.
Like if you can get in, we have a young
man who's a first year at Maryland.
you know, he got a full scholarship there,
and he scored a brace against Pitt in
a two-nothing win in his opening game.
Like not bad.
but he has a chance, a real chance
of being a pro, you know, when you're
performing like that as a first year.
And so there's sort of the gamut that
comes into our program and probably
others, but you know, we get high-end
D1 guys, mid-level D1, and a nice swath
of kind of kids who are in between.
But, you know, that's
just how it works out.
Matt: What, I'd love to know what
your thoughts are around the changing
environment as it relates to college
sports, and obviously specifically to
soccer as we're talking about soccer here.
With the age, the five year, the
19, I think it's after September 1st,
starts cutting into your five-year period.
how is that impacting prep schools?
How is it impacting the
PG year specifically?
I know that's not a big thing for
you guys, but it sounds like it is
for a lot of other prep schools.
And how do you think that
changes the landscape overall?
Jon: Boy, that's a really good question,
and I'm gonna be straight with you.
I don't really have a strong opinion.
I don't-- I wait to kind
of see what's gonna happen.
I mean, my headspace is around
developing players and helping
them get where they need to go.
the nuance to, you know, the
ever-changing rules around college
soccer post-COVID are, hard to follow.
And, you know, we haven't had any kids not
find their college footing as a result.
Like, I've had certain, like, strong
Division I programs saying, "We don't
even look to fill our class until March
of senior year." Like, for the class of
'27, I was speaking with one team that
just won the national title, and they're
like, "We're gonna begin looking in, you
know, in, in March." And I'm like, "What?"
You're like, "That doesn't help me with
my placement and how I have to help
kids." That creates a lot of stress
and anxiety, but they have to see how
their rosters are affected by transfers.
Matt: Transfer portal.
Yeah, that's
Jon: So the,
Matt: Exactly right
Liron: Well, I the good news here,
and, Matt will, address it, is Matt
told me that, prep school is cheap
Jon: Yeah.
Matt: I'm… Why am I addressing it?
Jon: Well, let me say this.
no, it, prep school is not cheap,
and colleges, private colleges
and stuff aren't cheap either.
you know, that was…
it's a real factor for kids.
But there are, just like colleges,
there's, there are-- we don't
have-- Most of the traditional
preps don't offer scholarships
for, like, athletic performance.
They offer need-based aid.
so families, we have-- All prep
schools have kids who pay zero.
They can fully fund kids
who come from very humble
origins, don't have much money.
So I would tell you right now, we have,
you know, we have one young man who comes
from very little and he pays nothing.
And then we have some who are
paying 10,000, some paying 20, 30,
40, 50, all the way up to the full
ticket, which is around 75,000
Liron: The website says, I
think it says 72, but yes, plus
Jon: Something like that, yeah,
fees and all that, insurance.
But it's a balancing
act for all these schools.
it's need-based aid, and, I think
that, you know, some schools
will fund certain programs more.
There aren't any rules like in college,
like the 9.9 or, you know, whatever it is.
It's, it's just institutional,
how much aid they're gonna
provide for a given program.
and some schools unabashedly,
like, don't fund certain programs.
They might say, like, "The tennis team
doesn't get any money," 'cause that's
a full paying sport, country club.
You know, I'm just--
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Liron: Yeah.
Jon: That kind of thing.
Liron: I get it
Matt: How, how much recruiting do
you do and where do you recruit?
What does your team look like doing that,
Jon: I get inquiries from all over
the globe, all over the US and, you
know, just like college coaches,
we're filtering sort of inquiries.
I don't think we're dealing with the
same volume as like the top college
programs, but we definitely… The
top prep programs that are in whatever
sport it may be are attracting a, you
know, a very wide-based population.
I-- Just similar to college, you
know, we travel a lot for recruitment.
but it's not essential, but I like to
do it, not because I like to travel.
I have actually gotten tired of
traveling a lot in my older years,
when I had kids and all of that.
But I like to make-- I like
to see players in person.
I like to see their personalities.
Sometimes things film doesn't show.
You know, highlights show highlights.
They don't show how does a player
respond when they're subbed in a game?
Do they go kick the water bottle?
Do they walk by the
coach, not shake his hand?
You know, do they, when they get called
for a foul, do they get up and chase back,
or do they, you know, complain to the ref?
So in-person evaluation is still,
I think, has a place, and for
me, it's a very important place.
I think a lot of coaches,
you know, do that.
So you have to travel and, you know,
we-- I'm traveling probably to at least
10 different countries this year, as
well as a bunch of domestic tournaments.
you know, when we texted this weekend,
I was in Bermuda looking at players.
Liron: So you're actively
recruiting athletes all the time.
It's not… So it's, it's an
active move by you as well.
It's not just kids who come to you.
You're looking for
sometimes specific profiles.
Jon: Very much so.
Just
Liron: Can you describe a little bit
more on that?
Because that's, that's fascinating.
I know you talked a little bit about the,
Matt: Asking for a friend.
Liron: For a friend.
I know.
Jon: Well
Liron: I know, I know their names
gotta start with an L, and I get
all those things, but give
us a little bit more details on,
Jon: Yeah.
Liron: Kind of profiles.
Jon: Yeah, that's a great question.
I think every coach approaches recruitment
very differently, and I definitely
have done this a long time and I
have certain things that I look for.
But, to give you an example, like
the domestic recruitment, I had
a young man on campus today who
is, from Saratoga, New York, and he
learned about us from your podcast.
Well, and Ryan Farr.
And Ryan Farr.
I sent him your podcast 'cause
they knew Ryan, and I said, "You
should listen to this." And he
is, an eighth-grader right now.
and his… He's looking
to, you know, come here.
He's been up twice.
And I like him a lot.
You know, he's a good player.
He's coming from a smaller market.
I think he could be, you know,
the sort of player that could get
overlooked, 'cause he's not, you know,
he's playing for Saratoga Wilton,
a small club, but he's very good.
And I saw him at a small
regional tournament.
So I go to small tournaments,
I go to big tournaments.
I try to look a lot
where others don't look.
so that's, that's one of the
things I do with recruitment.
this young man I think could be a very
good player with four years with us.
But what I like about him is
besides his good… You know,
he's a, he's a good player.
he impressed me when I saw him.
He's impressed me on his visits.
So when they come and visit,
you know, he was on campus for
about four or five hours today.
I watch, he's interacting with the team,
having lunch with admissions, meetings.
You know, he's looking me in the eyes.
He's polite, he's courteous.
I find out he likes to… You know,
he's in the jazz band, he does community
service, and, he gets very good grades.
Just a really nice young man.
And I, for me, whether or not that guy
becomes a pro or not doesn't matter.
It's like, I'm like, that's
a guy that I wanna work with.
Like, he's got a good
personality, really nice kid.
And so we're looking, for
me, it's about character.
I want people of high character,
people who are gonna, you know, make
my life easier on a day-to-day basis.
It's boarding school, and if you
have kids who are not gonna, you
know, play by the rules, you know,
wanna skip class, you know, be
mischievous, it just makes more work.
So selfishly, it's really nice to
work with kids who have a pretty good
head on their shoulders, who are, you
know, thinking about their future as
a student athlete in the truest sense.
you know, so those are the
kind of guys I look for.
And like I said, it doesn't have to be
from Brazil or, you know, or anywhere.
Bermuda is a good example
of, like, a smaller market.
another one that from my former,
where I worked for, this is a good story.
Jacob Shaffelburg just started for Canada
in the World Cup for this past summer.
he plays for LAFC in the MLS,
and he came when he was 14.
he played for Black Rock.
He went, again, when I
was coaching at Berkshire.
but he was from Nova Scotia, and
people are like, "Nova Scotia? Is
Don't they just play hockey?
What's up there?" You know?
And I remember going up there.
I went there with that goal in mind.
I'm like, "Nobody's looking
in Nova Scotia. There's
gotta be a player up there."
And so I went to Nova Scotia.
Soccer Nova Scotia is like, you
know, the regional talent pool.
Watched them, got to know people, and
recruited some players out of there,
and Jacob was one of the guys and, he,
you know, he had turned out pretty good.
He skipped, he was gonna,
he took a full scholarship to Virginia.
He had multiple offers from some top, top
programs, and got a pro contract offer
and decided to go to Toronto FC when he
was 18 years old instead of go to college.
Dad was, you know, supportive, Mom and
Dad, and they said, "Hey, look, I do
pretty well. If Jacob wants to go back
to college later, we can do that, but,
like, let him chase his dream right now."
So he entered the pro game at
18, and it's been a good thing.
but nobody was looking in
Nova Scotia, and I'm actually
going back up there this year.
Don't tell anyone.
Shh
Matt: Recruiting a kid from Nova Scotia
to Lake Placid seems fairly easy.
Recruiting a kid from Bermuda to
Lake Placid is your true superpower.
Jon: Good-- That's a challenge,
I think everywhere you go in life
there's, you know, positive aspects
to where you are, and there certainly
are many, many positive aspects.
One, the school supports what we're doing
with specialization, and that's rare.
Matt: Are they, are they supporting
that financially as well as with
the, with the support around the
academics or is that in addition to the
Jon: No, it's part of-- No,
no, they don't pay extra.
It's included in the… Which is also a
really big thing because a lot of kids
will go to other boarding schools and then
play club soccer on the side, you know,
start off with like a, you know, a 3 or
4,000 or even $5,000 club participation,
and when they go to tournaments,
they're paying airfare, hotels.
All of that's bundled
into our package here.
So when you pay your school rate, you're,
you're also getting all of that travel.
When we fly to a tournament, when
we take charter buses, hotels,
meals, everything's included.
Liron: Is it fair to say that, families
expect some sort of scholarship-based
progress after their program
with you when the kids continue in
Jon: I think they hope for it, but I'm
very clear in recruitment there are no
guarantees in life, and being here does
not guarantee you of anything except
for you're in a good platform that
has a proven history of doing what,
you know, what we're talking about.
but no, yeah, it's like
what you put into it.
Like they're getting a,
they're getting a platform.
They're getting a series of relationships
that I have that I've built over years.
the name Black Rock, the emerging
name Northwood, you know, that college
coaches, you know, value, respect.
They're getting that.
They're getting the structure.
They're getting our passion.
We are very passionate.
The coaches-- we have five people
on staff here, which is also
different from a lot of boarding
schools who have like one coach.
We're staffed, you
know, also to support our kids.
but I think what we tell them is,
"Look, there's a…" This is actually
what I told the young man today.
I'm like, "I can tell you confidently
that during your time here you're gonna
be evaluated again by Stanford, by Duke.
These schools are gonna come see you play.
They come to look at our team, but will
you perform well enough on the day?
Will you have the grades?
Will you have the type of citizenship
character that they look for?"
Because those colleges are quite
literally looking at over 10,000 kids,
quite literally for a recruiting class
of like, let's say the class of 2030.
They're gonna look-- they're
gonna evaluate over 10
Liron: Oh my God
Jon: Yeah.
Well, that's an interesting one
which people don't understand.
We had-- we have colleges come visit us.
They wanna come to training,
they wanna get to know our
players and do these things.
And so a good example of one which,
I've been trying to connect with for
a while, very good academic school,
Claremont McKenna in California.
Their coach flew out to,
come to one of our games.
He wanted to come for an
extra day to training.
He wanted to meet with some
mission-appropriate candidates
who had the profile for Claremont.
And, and I had about 10 guys in the
room that were kind of interested
in that, strong Division III
academics, California, whatever.
And I remember, like, this was his talk,
and I'll never forget it, and I'll keep
saying it over and over again, because
Claremont right now, if you looked on
the, whatever it is, the, RPI, NPI,
whatever they call it, you know, they're,
they're, they're all right this year.
I think they're like in the
middle of the 400 Division III's.
They're somewhere in
the middle of the pack.
You know, they're not, this year,
they're a good program, but they're
not, you know, at the top of the food
chain for Division III, you know?
And he said, "I will…"
This is what he told.
He said, "I'm gonna look at, for
any given class, my staff, we will,
we'll see over 6,000 candidates
for about six spots on our team."
He goes, " Now," he goes, "we start with
6,000 that we get videos and emails from.
We narrow it down to 600 that we like
the most, and we try to do, we try
to do…" This is really telling.
You can imagine what it is. So he
goes, "6,000, 600 we see in person.
Our staff will get out and make an effort
to see 600 of the 6,000 in person who
are, like, finalists, narrow it down to
60, and then ultimately see who has the
best stuff to be the six that come in."
Now, that's for a mid-level soccer, but
very good academic school, Claremont
McKenna, great school, great coach.
and I tell my players that 'cause
sometimes some of my players they scoff
at Division III, and I'm like, "Man,"
I said, "if you get any coach, any
coach out there that shows interest
in you, you should be very proud.
It's very hard." I don't know what the
percentages are, but I often loosely
quote. I say, "Look, I think probably
95% of high school players don't play
college soccer." I don't know, maybe it's
higher, but it's not a lot. And I-- so
what I tell them, "If you get a Division
III and you have a chance to go play
college soccer, you should be very proud.
You shouldn't feel that you
are less because you're not
getting a Division I scholarship.
That's, that's the, that's
the needle in the haystack.
That's the elusive one.
A full ride to D1s is very hard to
get when you look at the market." But
that's what I try to help the players
understand is just how competitive
it is to be a collegiate athlete.
There is no easy pathway in.
so
Matt: Well, as we, as we wrap, I mean,
what a, what an incredible program that
you've built and a service that you
provide, and I think, you know, as Liron
and I are starting to go through it with
our ninth grade boys, and we've lots of
parents whose kids are a little bit
older and have gone through it or going
through it, I think one of the biggest
challenges we've seen outside of the
development piece of it and being able to
provide all the things that you're able to
do at a prep school is the college piece.
And clubs aren't necessarily equipped
or connected enough, right, to be able
to help run and drive a process for
kids that are trying to play in college,
and, it's a real, real challenge.
I think some of the clubs do it
decently, maybe well, maybe, but
it's very few and far in between.
And, there's just a lot of kids
that don't end up getting the looks.
Jon: Exactly.
you're absolutely right.
And, yeah, I don't see it getting
any easier 'cause the way in which
international populations are reaching
these college coaches, you know, it's
just that much more competitive to
get a spot in any of these colleges.
And, it's a, it's a long-- I tell people
it's a long, grinding, sort of arduous
process to, from ninth grade to placement,
and you gotta work at it over those years.
You gotta really dig in and embrace
the process, and understand from the
outset it's extremely frustrating.
I have players who, you know,
they'll send, they'll send, you
know, 50 emails to colleges about
an upcoming showcase, and they'll
hear back from, like, five of them.
You know, like, if they're
getting good returns.
It's, it's very difficult because these
coaches are getting over-inundated.
They're getting bombed with,
you know, emails and things.
and they don't have-- Like, they
have a small staff, four coaches or
three coaches. The Division IIIs
have, like, 1.5.
They might even have an assistant.
But they're trying to filter 6,000 apps.
Like, I mean, candidates.
Liron: I get, I get, for the podcast we
get an average of about, four interviews
request a week, and I hyperventilate.
so I cannot even imagine
what that would be.
I have my last question for
you, and it's just because of time
constraints, not because of anything
else, because this is just opening up.
I mean, it's just really mind-boggling.
What… And again, I'm
asking for a friend.
what is, what is it that you wanna
hear when you look at that family or
that kid before you say yes to them?
Jon: Yeah, well, I don't actually say yes.
I have a lot of influence
in the admissions here, but
the admissions says yes.
they have to go through a
normal admissions process.
It's not just my world here.
But, I do have a good rapport
with the admissions,
and we work well together.
But the thing I want most, and I always
encourage, I really like when kids come
to visit the campus because there are
campuses that are far more, you know,
have-- there are prep schools that have
billion-dollar endowments, literally.
they have single buildings on their
campus that are more valuable than
our entire campus, some of these very
wealthy historic boarding schools.
and what I want people to understand
is you don't come here to be, you
know, dazzled with facilities.
We've got, we've got a beautiful new
turf field the board of trustees put in.
We've got indoor turf.
We have some nice amenities.
But it's a, it's a pretty
regular boarding school.
Nice, humble, really cozy.
But what I want is for them to come to
the campus to experience it, come and
learn, ask questions, dig around, have as
many conversations with teachers, people,
and find out if it feels right for you.
But, what I really like is when people
come to know who we are, and I like the
families that aren't necessarily dazzled
by those features, and what they really
want is good substance, because I think
we have really good substance here.
And I always tell them to lift-- look
under the hood at the other schools.
Like, don't just look at the bells
and whistles, but, like, what are the
outcomes, the outcomes of a process?
And, 'cause to me, that's,
that's really as good as you are.
We have had over 16 younger brothers
in our short time come here.
That, to me, is one of the
stats I'm really happy about.
We've got a couple more
applying this year.
They don't send child number
two if child one isn't happy.
You know, the parents won't do it.
So those are the things I
offer to put them in touch.
I just want them to feel comfortable
with who we are and see our unique space.
I want them to come up here and
see that we're in the middle of the
Adirondacks, beautiful Lake Placid.
But, you know, come up
and make sure you like it.
And if you do, and I like you, then that's
a good, that's, that's good, synergy.
so
Liron: Okay.
All right, I got a, I got
a lot to work with, my son,
Matt: Incredible.
Yeah
Liron: For sure.
We're no, definitely doing it, and
I'd like you to meet him as well.
Jon: Yeah
Liron: Wow, Matt, huh?
Matt: That was incredible.
Thank you.
We really, really appreciate you
bringing, being on, sharing as much as
you did, and, it's, it's fascinating to
see how all this is evolving in real time
Jon: Well, very nice
to speak with you guys.
Thank you for your time.
It was really enjoyable.
and thank you guys for telling some good
stories and kind of trying to explore
this nebulous pathway that I think a,
that, you know, a lot of players and
parents feel very frustrated by, and,
you know, it's, it's, you know, forever
evolving, and it's, it's fascinating.
and I, you know, just thanks for,
you know, trying educate people
and show them what's out there.
So thank you so much
A Black Rock wow.
No, I don't know, whatever it is, or La Vee, let's sign up.
Wow.
I wish, uh, man.
I wish I could go.
It sounds, you said it multiple times on
the pod that it sounds too good to be true, and you
were trying to poke holes in it.
And, uh, I don't know if it's too good
to be true, but it sure does sound incredible.
Yeah, well, you said it in one way you said, okay, a
parent spending hours getting your kids to training and just
all the pressure of being here in the city and he
said, he said to you, yeah, we literally walk 50 yards.
Yeah, well, there's something to being the kids
are have access to their teammates all the time.
They're on campus together.
They have access to their coaches, to their counselors.
The college process.
Sure seems to be streamlined and incredibly
effective in helping these student athletes find
great colleges.
And isn't that a big part of what we're trying to
accomplish with students and athletes.
And obviously, you're forgetting one thing, character, what do you say?
cleaning up after yourself?
Looking someone an eye, shaking wood?
You wouldn't you wouldn't have made it.
I don't know.
I would not have made it.
Well, that is what I love about this country, right?
So many opportunities, so many options.
So many paths.
And this is why we're here behind the mic.
I want to thank Jon for his time.
I want to thank him for coming on and telling a amazing
story and pretty inspiring.
And what a vision, right?
I mean, this goes to he saw a void
in the prep school system around specialization
and allowing kids who truly had a passion and had a talent
and a willingness to pursue it.
And he went and created it.
And 9 years in to the program at Northwood.
He's had a lot of success.
And I think he's defining success by the
student athletes and how they end up, you know, pursuing
their soccer dreams and their academic dreams and their life.
I love it, and it's just to wrap up the numbers he gave
for what it takes to continue posts
to go to the collegial path, which is the numbers were in there,
even just for a division three.
And he put it so clearly in a way that prep school,
you know that prep stands for preparation gets
you ready for something that you and I have not even started to talk about.
I thought it was for preparatory.
Is that what it is?
Seattle, I don't know.
What do I know?
speak English.
This is this is chasing the game, youth
soccer in America, see a math.
Oh, tell them that they need to subscribe.
Oh, you need to subscribe.
Please subscribe.
Please, bye man.
Bye bye.