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Podcast host Ray Sanders, sat down with NFL Pro Bowler and OU football Lombardi Award winner, Tommie Harris at the annual F.U.E.L. Leadership Conference to hear how Tommie's life was forever changed following the sudden death of his wife Ashley. During the interview, Sanders highlights and discusses powerful and touching stories from Tommie's new book, Endure, Playing through life’s hardest hits.
Each episode is hosted by Ray Sanders, an award-winning journalist with more than 30 years of experience in both print and broadcast media.
As a CEO, he has grown multi-million-dollar organizations, led an award-winning financial institution, served in a nonpartisan role with the United States Senate and pioneered international efforts to bring clean water to remote regions of the world.
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Hello, everyone. I'm Ray Sanders, and you're listening to the Ray Sanders Leadership Podcast. You know, guys, recently, I had the opportunity to speak at the Fuel Leadership Conference. And joining me on this stage was NFL Pro Bowler Vince Lombardi award winner Tommy Harris, for an interview about his life and new book, Endure, subtitled Playing Through Life's Hardest Hits. Let's join that interview now in progress.
Tommie:New Year's Day 2012. We leave the game. We leave we leave Oakland. It was a terrible game too, I might say. Terrible.
Tommie:Half of my team quit on us, but we weren't going to the playoffs. So they just act like they pulled muscles. They eat a hot dog. I had to play safety, linebacker. I played everything that game.
Tommie:I'll never forget. But I I had planned with my, wife. She was my, my fiancee at the time, but I had planned with I said. You know what? Let's just get married.
Tommie:We're gonna get married right after that game. So I got married on New Year's Day right after that game.
Ray:So the thing that's interesting about this is that here he was, he didn't know it, but that was actually your last game in the NFL.
Tommie:Yes, sir. That was it. I did not
Ray:know it. So New Year's Day, 2012, NFL, you and a group of your friends, you go back to the condo. You're marrying the girl of your dreams. I've met Ashley. She was beautiful.
Ray:Absolutely gorgeous. You all saw the pictures. You marry her. You're on top of the world. You have no idea what's about to hit you.
Tommie:Not at all.
Ray:You didn't hear that train coming?
Tommie:No. I felt some I had some nights where things was weird, but I thought it was gonna be me. But I felt like I would wake her up in the middle. I kept seeing 111 all the time, and I kept waking up like something was going on. And one particular night, she got up with me.
Tommie:I was sweating all over the place. She's I said, something about to happen. So she said, you alright. And we begin to pray, but I felt you kinda you get feelings of stuff, but all I could do was pray like I do now.
Ray:And so, married, didn't know it at the time, last NFL game. 41 days later, what happened, Tommy?
Tommie:41 days later, I actually dropped my wife off to go to a to Chicago airport to meet me. I was supposed to meet her a week later down in Oklahoma City, after she was having a breast reduction to get ready for the big, wedding on June 8th. She was down right in Norman, and, she went in to get a procedure to have a a breast reduction surgery. And as I'm landing to meet with her, I had to make a stop in Austin. I got a phone call that said, your wife stopped breathing on the table.
Tommie:You need to get to Oklahoma. And what's crazy is about God always has when you're going through something, it it's crazy how God always equips you or put a ram in a bush, but you don't know it till afterwards. You know hindsight is always 2020. After, you can sit back and look at the what happened. But there was a guy on the plane that we talked all the way home.
Tommie:He owned a jet company flying on American Airline. So when I got to Austin, I couldn't find any flights to get me to Oklahoma when I got the news, but I had the guy's number in my pocket that said if I need anything, just hit him up. I reached down, called him. He said he didn't even make it out the airport yet. He said, Tommy, we got a jet waiting for you in Killeen that'll take you right to Oklahoma.
Tommie:When I got here, it was, probably a couple days of praying, fasting, hoping that God they had our own life support. So just hoping that God would revive or or or do something. So I labored for about 3 days.
Ray:And you you share in the book how, you know, your family is really important to your mama and your daddy, and you were praying with her with your mama.
Tommie:Yeah.
Ray:And you really believed.
Tommie:Oh, man. I believe this was I thought that was the moment where God was gonna do, like you know, as a Christian, you live for this. You know, Jesus raising people from the dead. The water's opening and it's like, you all I kept saying was, God, do it. I'm a tell the world all about how good your greatness is, your glory is.
Tommie:And my mom started screaming and praying, and the machine started going crazy. So we thought we had hope for a minute, and then it all dissipated. And then that's when I finally told God, I said, let your will be done.
Ray:And then the amazing thing is and you'll read I don't wanna give away all of the book because you and Holden have done a great job here, but, I cannot imagine what how he found out about the ultimate situation with Ashley. Tell him tell him how you found out about her final passing.
Tommie:Oh, I found out I was sitting, praying in the chapel, and, my my the chapel was adjacent from her room across from, and I was sitting there praying, and, Bill had just just left out. And I was just quiet to myself, and then he bust back in. And he said, hey. Did you see this? I said, see what?
Tommie:And he showed on the Internet that, All Crow, Tommy Harris' wife, has just died of a brain aneurysm. So that's how I found out what I was praying for across the hall.
Ray:Yeah. Can you imagine finding out here you are, a public figure like this, and no one has the respect to to tell you about your own wife passing and you find out in that way, I mean, I just can't think of something more terrible. One of the things that I've I took away from this book, Tommy, and, I'd love to talk more about it at some point, but you really kind of found yourself drinking and reading your Bible. Drinking and reading your Bible. And the Lord took you to the book of Job.
Ray:Now, as if Ashley's passing wasn't enough, you I did not know this until I read the book. It didn't stop there. Your life did not get smooth.
Tommie:No. No. I I end up, 4 years later, I end up getting back in a relationship who I'm with now, my fiancee. But, we had a daughter. And, at 4 months, we walked in the room, and our daughter passed of SIDS, sudden infant death syndrome.
Tommie:And I had a nanny that took care of all my kids, took care of everybody, and she died fatally with a head on collision. But the book's not sad. Like, it it I know he died. She died. Like, who wants to buy that?
Tommie:Right? Check it out. Man, I I'm so grateful. Because I get tired. I was like, I wouldn't wanna buy that.
Tommie:Right? He died. She died. Like like, Yeah. It gets better.
Tommie:It's an it's an encouraging it's encouraging at the end. I stick to Landon at the end. Holden did a good job.
Ray:But the bottom line is there's a lot of people they can relate to. They're like, where is God in all this? I mean, you're you're trying to do it right. One of the things I love about Tommy Harris, this dude is not fake. And he'll tell you straight up, I'm not perfect.
Ray:I'm not I don't have it all together. What I can't stand are people that act like they got it all together. And what I respect is a man that'll admit, you know what? I'm a still work in progress. But at the same time, you kinda think you're gonna get some gimmes, you know.
Ray:You kinda think God's gonna give you give you some help, and and the bottom line is, there's some people that helped you endure. Yes. I mean, you talk about the the value of the huddle in chapter 4.
Tommie:Yes, sir.
Ray:Talk about that.
Tommie:I mean, in the huddle?
Ray:The huddle. I mean, in the huddle.
Tommie:The huddle. The huddle. Yeah. The the huddle is, being able to, surround yourself. Yourself.
Tommie:I I used to all everyone would say Tommy Harris has the fastest get off in the NFL and he's the fastest, but I really wasn't. I could just read lips. And if you didn't close-up your huddle, I heard you say on 1. I just read your lips say on 2. So and the greatest quarterbacks were Tom Brady and Peyton Manning that you could never get a snap count because they always huddled up tight.
Tommie:So I started to think the most successful guys in the league really takes care of the huddles. And God started working with me on different levels of being able to take terms from football and put them in life practices. So I started to think in business and raising a family. If you're gonna win in life's game, it's it's extremely important to start deciding who's in your huddle and who you're gonna win with. And a lot of us aren't winning because we haven't made a proper cut or replaced something that has been well overdue.
Tommie:So we just take the pain of, that's my guy, but we're not winning with him. So I had to learn to start deciding to make cuts, to start seeing what people in my lives I could keep, what people weren't servicing me anymore, because I was tired of being in a stagnant a stagnant place. So I just started making changes and cuts on my team.
Ray:So one of the things that's real clear in your book is your dad is important to you, your coaches are important to you. Here's a look at this guy. His book, he talked about getting into counseling and trying to get through some of the issues that you go through. I love what you said on page 6465. You said, when you endure, you find that you aren't simply surviving, but actually growing.
Ray:Go ahead.
Tommie:So endure to me is like a call to action. So it's like it's telling someone to to keep on. Like, I know it's tough right now. I know it's hard. Right?
Tommie:But you gotta keep pushing. And I tell everyone, I never built a muscle on my body. It didn't hurt me to do it. So it's times in life where you're you're under some strain. You're under some you're in an uncomfortable place.
Tommie:You're in a different place. But the truth is we're all developing. Everyone that's right here in front of you, we are developing. It's moment by from today to tomorrow. If God gives us another day, we are developing.
Tommie:And there's some people that I had to learn in my life that some people will see you in your summertime. That's when everything's going good and some see people see you in your spring when things are you you getting everything you want, and some people gonna see you when you're falling off. He's changed. He gave his life to Christ. Now he's different.
Tommie:He and some people see you in the winter of your life where you're in the worst position you've ever been in. But it's being able to see it through all the seasons, all the different parts of your life through through enduring it. Being able to first say, this is the day the lord has made. I will rejoice and be glad in. I had to start putting myself in that practice every no matter how tough it is, how hard it is.
Tommie:Okay. I said, thank you, God. For today? Okay. What am I gonna be glad about?
Tommie:My breath. He gave me breath today. He gave me life. No matter what the outside circumstances present, I've already given God what he's given me, and I said thank you. I'm grateful to be here.
Ray:Man, that's awesome, isn't it? That's that's awesome. You quote John f Kennedy in the book, and the former president says, do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be strong, man. I think that's what your life is beginning to represent.
Ray:And then you you say at the end of the chapter, you say, rather than looking for the easy way out, look for the growth way out. You tell a story and I've been in that stadium and I'll be there on Saturday. And you talk about the guys that were called to run the stadium. And there was a way to make it easy. Tell that story.
Tommie:Right. And which one?
Ray:The one about where you guys are and you get called out. You're supposed to run up the steps to the top of the stadium and run back down, but some of the guys figured out Oh, yeah.
Tommie:Yeah. But I wasn't allowed
Ray:to do it. Yeah.
Tommie:Like, I'm telling you, for real when when you're at the university and you're a certain caliber, they don't play with you. Like, I I had to always be the example, so I couldn't cheat. I wanted to do some of the things that some of the guys got away with, but I couldn't even tell either. But we had some guys we would have to run all the way up to the top of the stadium on the ramp, that big ramp all the way to the top. We had 14 seconds to get up, and we had 20 seconds to get down.
Tommie:A lot of guys I mean, my whole crew my 3 years at OU, I never cheat that drill one time. But every I see guys take that they knew how to get on that elevator.
Ray:And and and it would
Tommie:kill me every year. Like, I wanna tell so bad on you guys, but I I never but it it it always gave me the like, I end up doing well at the end finishing off and doing. But it just showed you how hard hard work really works. And no matter how enticing it looks to take a shortcut, it it it's not gonna help you in that long run. So we Holden did such an incredible job putting a lot of these stories together.
Tommie:All I did have to all I did was sit back and talk and hold and just you know? So, I mean, he's done a we have so many stories in there, but that's one of the ones just not taking the shortcut. Just just seeing it through to the end.
Ray:What he's really telling you is he's a man of integrity. And that's what a real leader is like. They have integrity. Have you ever heard the line, integrity is doing what you're supposed to do when no one's looking? But you know what?
Ray:Integrity is doing it no matter if they're looking or not. It's all the time. And this is a man of integrity. So, Tommy, this is the this is the punch line. How many of those guys that took the elevator made it into the NFL?
Ray:Who? Who? We're not gonna ask for names. Well, you know what? We have just a little bit more time, but there's a couple of things I want to talk about.
Ray:One of the things that I've learned from reading this book, and folks, they made this affordable. You can get it. You need to get a copy of this book. It's out there tonight. He's gonna be signing copies as well, but here's here's what I I'm gonna tell you what I got out of it.
Ray:Not only did I get endure out of it. That is clear. That's who you are. Ami Harris, look it up in the dictionary. Endure.
Ray:But what I also figured out by reading this book is that I learned that God doesn't waste pain.
Tommie:Every pain has purpose. That is that's that's and it's difficult to hindsight, I can say that. Now while you're under pain, you don't everybody wants pain to stop. But when you know that you're a believer and you trust God, that God would never leave you nor forsake you. Never.
Tommie:He promises that he'll never leave you nor forsake you. And I've always been into the place that, God, if you trust me with this, I'm I'm gonna go through it. It does not matter what circumstances set up. I can't quit. I have to see it through to the end, endure to the end.
Tommie:And the Bible says that he that endureth to the end. So this is daily a process for believers to commit themselves to never quitting. I don't I don't care if you get a divorce, if your finance changes, your money. That your that's not predicated on your circumstances is not predicated on your salvation. Your salvation is what you owe God.
Tommie:That that's that's you living daily and getting back up again. Start yes. You're gonna fall. Get back up. Let's go.
Tommie:I've seen a kid out there. He fell on the ground and sat down. I said, no. Don't stay there. Hot stove.
Ray:You gotta bounce up. You
Tommie:gotta bounce up. So whoever if you're if you're ever in a down position, down place, always remember, man, this is the day the Lord has made. And our job is to rejoice and be glad. And even when it's tough, the climate right now, if you feel the social climate, everybody's kind of morale is we're trying to force back this new normal and thrive in this new normal, but it's encouraging people. Every day, I told I told Texas went and put up the everyone can have a gun.
Tommie:Yeah. They're gonna start selling bullets in the gas station. So I I said, man, we're in such a climate now that everybody needs to just love on one another. And I had a friend in Texas, 2 days ago. He's sitting at a red light.
Tommie:He just the light went green. He just laid on. I said, no, man. Texas just everybody carry a gun here. You can't be doing that in Texas.
Tommie:So it's just it's just learning the climate like like being that that that fresh air that that that that thing that makes a room better when you walk into it or being able to fake a smile until it becomes real or asking someone, how you doing today? You doing alright? We're we're in such this bubble right now that people really need to feel the presence of God. Godly people has not weighed down with all their struggles, all this stuff. That stuff is gonna be there.
Tommie:We can't do nothing about that but believe God. And that's all I do. That's my message to endure this thing to the end. Hope it encourages everyone here.
Ray:Yeah. You bet, man. That's awesome. Well, I want to close I want to close on something we want to make you aware of. One of the things that I think that God has done by using Tommy's pain, he was already doing it.
Ray:He continues to do it. He has a heart for Africa and the African people. And one of the things that he has decided to do is that he wants to build a school in honor of his late wife, Ashley. And they were going to do it in Sudan. Things are crazy there.
Ray:We've got some friends in Uganda that we both know. We decided to put together the school together. Cedar Gate Publishing is going to be a part of it. Several others are gonna be a part of it. They're they're coming on board with us.
Ray:But we're gonna build a school in honor of Ashley Harris. It's gonna be called the Ashley Harris Sunshine School. There's some information on your table about it. I know nothing would clear you more than to know the people in Yukon got behind you and supported this school. Do we have that slide?
Ray:Yeah. There it is. As you can see on the slide there, there's this is a little Ugandan girl. Tommy and I have been to this school. This is what it looks like now.
Ray:There's a picture of Ashley. On the left down here, Brian and Marla have seen this school. And this is where it's going. This is the progress and Tommy wants to build and finish this school in honor of Ashley. And we're going to call it the Ashley Harris sun Sunshine School in Jinze, Uganda.
Ray:And at some point, we're gonna go over and celebrate, maybe you can go with us. Anything you wanna say about it?
Tommie:Come on out. Thank you. Thank you.
Ray:Alright. One last thing and we gotta wrap this thing up. I've I made a discovery. I didn't know this. Bill Horn is, a guy who's been running alongside, Tommy for a long time.
Ray:Tommy tipped his hand with me one day and showed me, he said, I want to tell you a story. He said, Tommy was at a kind of an expedition game down in Dallas and was cleaning up after the game and started singing in the shower. And there were some country and western guys there, Toby Keith and some others. And they're all like, who's that dude singing in the shower? Who's singing in the shower?
Ray:No. You Tommy. Yeah. It's me, man. Well, I find out they they love they love his voice.
Ray:They said, you gotta come to Nashville.
Tommie:I thought they were playing around. I thought they were pumping me up, but I end up doing it.
Ray:You did. And he end up this is I love the way it sound. He end up writing a song in prison. Yes, sir. Oh, yeah.
Ray:Tell me a little bit about that. So I
Tommie:end up writing a song in prison. It's a it's a punchline. I ended up writing a song in prison with Billy Dawson and, they have a foundation called the Beat of Life where all the country singers go there and they write songs with inmates. So while we were in there, we just had time and and songs were just flowing everywhere. I said, I done wrote 3 songs in prison.
Tommie:So so that's my story about that. We were in a Nashville prison, but just being able to sit and write all these different tunes, Billy Dawson leaned over to me while we were having a break. And he said, Tommy, he said, man, like, I see you I see you around and you and you're looking like you. Sometimes I see you check out and you check he said, how you really feel? And I said, to be honest, Billy, I feel deflated.
Tommie:And he said, say that again? I said, I feel deflated. What else you feel? Is it? So so from right then on, we we just started putting it together, and then I did another song with Rivers Rutherford.
Tommie:He just went to the country hall of fame. But it was just great to be able to go out there, and I'm I'm just living, trying trying different things.
Ray:So would you give Tommy Harris a round of applause? I mean, come on. We're glad that you've endured. I can I can set it up, but you guys are getting ready to see something really special? We're getting ready to show you he made a music video.
Ray:You wanna tell me anything about it before we play it?
Tommie:I didn't know. Yeah. I was good. Which one is this?
Ray:It's deflated.
Tommie:Yeah. So deflated was, just just moments of it's that silent pause or that in that moment of where you feel like you don't have all the answers, everything in your world is just shattered. That news you just but God comes and give breath back to a flat line situation. But God comes and give breath back to a a flat line situation that you thought was over. And you get to see a new side of God in trouble.
Tommie:So I'm not begging people to go get in life, but it's just the perspective that I had that I got to see another side of God through my suffering, my struggles.
Ray:So, folks, we're gonna present to you not only an 8 year NFL star, pro bowler, Vince Lombardi award winner. We're now gonna present to you country and western star, Tommy Harris.
Tommie:Roll the
Ray:table, boys. Thanks, Tommy.
Tommie:Thank you. I put on my wife, and I couldn't save her at 28, and that monitor where she was breathing through, and I calculated all the money I had. And I looked at her, and it couldn't save it, all the value of that dollar said it ain't I really know what value is. At 845, I was flying high on an airplane. Then I got takes a man to stand down
Ray:I sure hope you enjoyed today's program with special guest, Tommy Harris. You know, you can get a copy of Tommy's book, Endure, by visiting thecedargate.comforward/tommyharris. That's thecedargate.com forward slash Tommy Harris. Now don't forget, you have to spell his name, tommie.