Progressively Horrified

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What is Progressively Horrified?

A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.

Ben: That's why the Hot Topic
lace choker is so popular.

It's the only fucking choker that'll
actually, like, stay in place.

Jorri: And that's aggressively
90s, the, like, tattoo

ones.

Ben: Oh,

Emily: yeah,

Jorri: Yeah,

Ben: Which is why I have,
like, eight of them.

Jorri: As this movie is.

Emily: Should I change into my band shirt?

Jorri: Please.

Jeremy: I'm, I'm wearing my floral
print right now, so I'm way off message.

Jorri: brand, but you're welcome in

Ben: I've got a beer t shirt,
which I own for some reason.

I can be very fashionable when I have
prep time, but I did not have prep time.

Jeremy: I feel like I'm probably
going to be the least hot on

this movie generally, so it fits.

Ben: That's fair.

Hey, we all got to take a turn.

That was me last week.

Emily: I want everyone to
know that this shirt is, uh,

Ben: That shirt looks,
like, battle scarred.

Emily: is.

This shirt I wore every Friday
for the entirety of 1996 to 1997.

Jorri: The

Ben: feel like I need to, like, salute
that shirt as, like, an honored elder.

Emily: It is.

It is.

This is,

Ben: Like, thank you for your service,
like, 1990s Nine Inch Nails t shirt.

Emily: the best thing, it's a bootleg.

Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
progressively horrified, the podcast

where we old hoarder progressive
standards that never agreed to.

Tonight, we're just
talking about the nineties.

We're talking about the aesthetic.

We're talking about.

cheap plastic stuff blowing in
the breeze outside of buildings.

Fog for no reason, just
coming out of sewer grates.

we're talking about the weird
action movie based on the weird

indie comic that you just can't
explain, you just have to experience.

We're talking about The Crow.

I Whitley and with me tonight I have
a panel of cinephiles and Cenobites.

First, they're here to challenge
the sexy werewolf, sexy vampire

binary, my co host Ben Kahn.

Ben, how are you tonight?

Ben: I watched movie with my
partner, who was a big 90s teen

goth, and she had the maturity of
The Hobbits returning to the Shire.

A purer, gothier time.

Jeremy: And the cinnamon roll of
Cenobites, our co host, Emily Martin.

Emily, how, how was it watching
this formative document for you?

Emily: We'll get into that.

Ben: Emily, do we have an
update to our somehow most

recurring segment on the show?

Emily: uh, yeah, please.

Proceed calmly to the nearest shelter
because we have an active distinct.

Trent warning, Yes, folks, it's
a Trent watch, and in fact, Boop!

We're not doing the beep a
beep because he's already here.

It's a, you know, Alicia put in, yeah,
yeah, yeah, we got the siren, Yes.

Watch out for the

Ben: movie really definitively proves
that goth rock in movies has aged

infinitely better than nu metal in movies.

Jorri: 100%.

Emily: Power Man 5, 000%.

Jeremy: and our guest tonight, our friend,
horror fan, and creative strategist

for AMC Networks, Jorri Roberts.

Jorri, welcome back.

Jorri: Thank you.

Uh, my hair is straightened, my
choker's around my neck, but my black

eyeliner is on and my lips are glossy.

I am ready to talk about 90s golf

Emily: Hell yeah.

Ben: Oh yeah, no, I'm definitely
going to be able to handle, like,

Bad hair days, but I've just been
like, it's got crow hair today.

It's fine.

Emily: just get wet.

Ben: I'm gonna parkour
through the rainy city.

Jorri: and not get hurt at all,

Ben: No,

Emily: Well, you're invulnerable.

Ben: you live in the city from 7.

Jeremy: Parkour, before
people knew what parkour was.

Emily: Yeah, this was
the parkour definition.

There was only one thing that I
saw parkour done this way, and

that thing was fucking Devilman.

So you know what?

I rest my case.

Ben: Y'all, this movie, it rules?

Like, it's great.

Emily: It's a perfect film.

Jeremy: This movie takes
place in maybe Detroit?

A Detroit that looks
distinctly like Seattle?

Ben: it takes place in just urban decay.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: somebody refers to somebody
as Motor City something or others, I'm

sure Emily you'll get into this, but
like, a lot of this is based on some

fucked up shit that actually happened
to James O'Barr, and him trying to like,

process that by making a comic about it.

Which I think like is also where a lot of
the stuff in this movie that looking back

on it now makes me uncomfortable is that
because there's a lot of like some really

like Reagan politics and like depiction
of what the inner city is like with

these just roving gangs of guys who just.

Murder for fun and

Ben: It's weird, they do it like
they do the villain gang of RoboCop,

where it's like, yeah, they're rapist
murderers, but they all got their

fun gimmicks and personality quirks.

Jeremy: I mean and the only functions
women serve in this movie are to be

dead or to be a bad mother on drugs

Jorri: the two

Jeremy: yeah,

Emily: Don't forget Asian and mystical.

Jeremy: yes Asian and mystical

Jorri: We love some Orientalism.

Jeremy: It's problematic, but
like, Bai Ling, like, made

a career off of this movie.

She's basically this character for
like, 300 more credits on her IMDb.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: She gave Jack his tattoos
in Lost, in Lost's worst episode.

Jeremy: Mean, basically any Jack
focused episode is, is not great.

But,

Jorri: she was like the 90s it girl for
a hot second and like, let's be fair.

I thought she was really cool.

Like she was one of the female celebrities
that like, she did not give a fuck.

And we couldn't get enough of
those, you know, in the 90s.

Emily: Yes, for real.

so shall we talk about
this movie and its specs?

Jeremy: yeah, I mean, I, I just
wanted to say, like, that, that bit

up top that, like, it is a fun, gothy
revenge story, but it the politics

of it are a little weird for me.

Emily: Yes, no, you have a
really good point about that.

Who here has read the comic?

Jorri: have

Ben: I

have not.

Jeremy: read parts of the comic.

I've not

Emily: Okay, so the comic is like
that times a million, and it's

Jeremy: Having read
interviews with James O'Barr.

I was like, yeah, okay.

I can see where this came from.

Emily: Yeah, so I mean, the movie
is a little bit more like, hey, you

know, some of these bad guys are
white as opposed to the comic where,

Ben: Oh, are some of these bad guys white?

Holy shit!

Jorri: bad.

But

Ben: I mean, do we want to
talk about Michael Wincott yet?

Do we

want

Emily: talk about Sephiroth.

I mean, Michael Wyncott as top dollar in

Ben: Do we want to talk
about cocaine vampire with an

inexplicable southern accent?

Emily: just a mood.

Jeremy: I love that man.

His name is Stank..

That was one of the two
weirdest things for me.

The other one being

Ben: I'm gonna talk
about White Boy Summer.

Jeremy: the drop of Stone Temple
Pilots as playing in the bad guy's

car for two seconds in the movie, and
I was like, what the fuck's happening

Ben: Yeah, why was Big Empty
in the movie for two seconds?

Honestly, That was the only needle
drop that took me out of the movie.

Every other needle drop,
I'm like, fuckin killin it.

I love the song, it fits the
atmosphere, it fits the tone.

Jeremy: and it's like, in
their car as they're driving

by, we're not even in the car

Ben: No, just like four seconds of
STP out of goddamn nowhere in the car.

Jorri: And I want to know how much
they paid for that sync, for like four

seconds, like I want to know the like
dollar per second amount, but may I

make a perfect segue into the most
iconic scene arguably of the whole

film, which is the Cures burn playing
as Kahn, his costume for the first time.

I mean, if there's one scene that
everybody remembers from this

movie, and please correct me if
I'm wrong here, I believe The Cure

wrote that song for the movie.

Ben: Did they?

Oh,

that's

dope.

It's a great

song, it fits the movie so well.

A classic, like, superhero suiting up

Jeremy: I mean, it's no M& M's
Venom, but you know what is.

Ben: mean, if we're talking iconic
scenes, the scene that stopped me

dead in my fucking tracks was we
cut to Ernie Hudson's apartment and

he is wearing boxers, a t shirt,
and still has his cop hat on.

Jorri: that's what cops are like for

sure.

Ben: I lost my mind at
the boxers and cop hat

Emily: how else will we know he's a cop?

Jeremy: Emily, why don't you, uh, dive in?

Give us some specs here.

Emily: Okay, so, we've got our
director, Alex Proyas, writing

director Alex Proyas, writers David J.

Cho, John Shirley, and of course,
James Zobar, the, uh, graphic novelist.

Thanks.

Our stars include, but are not limited
to, Brandon Lee, Michael Wincott, Rochelle

Davis, Ernie Hudson, Bia Ling, Anna
Thompson, David Patrick Kelly, Lawrence

Mason, Tony fucking Todd is in this movie.

And I always forget.

Jorri: Icon.

Legend.

Emily: I know.

Jeremy: I

seem like a normal man

and totally

underused.

Ben: have a theory as to why specifically
he's, it's easy to forget he's in

this movie, A, you're right, he's
like, using like, a weirdly regular

voice, he's not doing like, Tony Todd
voice, but B, I think the combination

of the goatee and the glasses really
make him look like Avery Brooks.

Emily: Yeah, and the suit!

Ben: Yeah,

Emily: I knew it wasn't Avery Brooks,
but it was like Avery Brooks adjacent.

Ben: Yeah, like, enough that
you don't quite, aren't quite

as aware that it's Tony Todd.

Emily: also I'm pretty sure that this
character, his name is, I think Grange, it

would be never hear the name of the movie.

Ben: Crazy that Tony Todd isn't the
main villain of this movie, honestly.

Emily: well, he's like, he's still
sitting there being all bad ass.

Like he's one of the best

characters to look

Jeremy: He's the stringer
bell of this movie.

Emily: Yeah.

And he's like,

Ben: Oh, great, great comparison.

Yep.

Emily: And I'm pretty sure he
is one of the multiple movie

characters that Tim Bradstreet
evoked on his covers for White Wolf.

The other being, um, from, uh,
uh, Near Dark uh, Bill Paxton.

Bill Paxton.

All right, so this movie came out in 1994.

This is a time, I want to explain
something here, is that this is a time

when in the trailers on TV, like the ads
for these movies, they would show the

soundtrack listing as part of the ad, and
it would just have like a, you know, with

music from, and then a list of songs.

And it was.

New at that point, like it was the,
you know, the having the needle

drops were part of the movie trailer.

Jorri: The marketing,

Ben: Yeah, I miss when you could be
watching TV at 1am and a commercial would

play telling you to call a sketchy number
and they'll just give you a CD with a

bunch of like predetermined songs on it.

Jorri: Talk about 90s.

Emily: moods.

Ben: Yeah, and it was
all like, you know, like,

the best of Enya!

That was a lot of Enya commercials!

Emily: Enya.

Okay.

1 of those CDs had Enya
and the X Files, the Dado

Ben: Yes!

Yes!

That is, it was Enya and Dado, yes!

Yes, we're thinking the same fucking

Emily: yeah, yeah, and the
crystal or not crystal method.

Oh, the orb, the orb, like the fluffy

Ben: Oh, that would be dope if
they just had a random fucking

Crystal Method track on there!

Emily: No, that's the spawn soundtrack.

Ben: it is!

Jeremy: So

I want to talk about
Alex Proyas a little bit

Emily: oh yeah, please,

Ben: Yes.

Jeremy: Because this is his first
Feature film he will go on to direct

Dark City and a lot of shitty movies

Jorri: That makes

Ben: I remember liking iRobot,
but I also definitely haven't seen

it since 2004.

I remember liking iRobot, but I also
definitely haven't seen it since 2004.

Jeremy: Yeah, I mean he
also directed gods of Egypt

and knowing Dark City is another one
that maybe we could talk about on here

at some point because uh, He's It's an
interesting one, but before The Crow,

he was directing music videos, which I
feel like, when you look at this movie,

you're like, yeah, that makes sense, and
then you look at his list, and you're

like, oh, he was directing music videos
by Steve Winwood, Sting, Joe Jackson,

Crowded House, and Rick Springfield, just
before this, and it's like, Well, hold on.

Jorri: start somewhere, and
honestly, that's a pretty solid

start, you

Jeremy: but but not,

the aesthetic that you would imagine when

you see the crow.

Ben: yeah, you'd think like, oh,
guy who may, who directed music

videos and then went on to direct
The Crow, did he direct music videos

for Nine Inch Nails or Slipknot or

The Cure?

Yeah, like, and it's like, oh, no!

Jorri: at all.

Not even a

Ben: no, no.

Emily: fun fact, the director of the
most iconic Nine Inch Nails videos

is also the director of One Hour
Photo, which references Evangelion.

Jorri: And he, like,
pronounces it wrong, right?

Emily: well, he says Evangelion,
but that's how they say it

in the dub from 1995, so.

Yeah, you have, uh,
activated my hypofixation,

Ben: this movie's cast, I mean, Ernie
Hudson is predictably fantastic.

He's Ernie Hudson.

Jeremy: I do want to say, like, Ernie
Hudson, I think, has to be added to

our list of now only two good cops
that exist in horror movies, the

other one being David Harbour like
David Harbour in Stranger Things.

And then Ernie Hudson in this movie.

Because, and part of the only reason that
works is that Ernie Hudson is like, the

only worthwhile cop in the whole group.

The rest of them are assholes.

Ben: It also is that Ernie Hudson
is It's Commissioner Gordon.

Emily: Yes.

Yes.

Jeremy: Also, Ernie Hudson keeps getting
older and he keeps being a smoke show.

I don't know how the fuck that happens.

Ben: Ernie Hudson is so much more ripped
today in 2024 than he was 30 years

Jeremy: I mean, look at everybody else
that was in Ghostbusters with him.

They all look like bags
of asses at this point.

And then you have Ernie Hudson who looks

Ben: fine.

Fine.

Also, he looks like he could
just fucking beat you up.

He's in such good shape.

Like, 78 Ernie Hudson can
kick all of our asses.

Emily: and I would, I would

Ben: Can kick my ass.

I actually would not, I actually
would put my money on Jeremy

if it really came down to it.

Jeremy: I wouldn't fight Ernie Hudson.

Emily: Yeah, I wouldn't fight.

Ben: And, there is the tragedy that always
comes with this movie is Brandon Lee's

tragic passing during the filming of this.

And, you really do see in this
movie what a talent that was lost.

Like, he is truly good, like, he is not
just an action star, he gives this role

a humanity and a joy, where so many
actors would have hidden that character

just beneath layers, just monotone layers
of brooding Brandon Lee so beautifully

evokes, like, the joys of what his life
was and the grief of it being lost.

this, this should have
been a star making role.

Jeremy: Yeah.

especially watching it now, it is hard
to not see how much of Heath Ledger's

performance as the Joker is sort of
like inspired by, if not in some cases

lifted from what he's doing here.

Emily: Yeah.

like, a lot of the impish shit that
character evokes is also from the comics.

because, like, in the comics he
would, kind of jump around and

do his little, like, Jokes but
Brandon Lee really nails it.

Ben: Yeah.

Emily: He is witty, He's
just over the top enough.

Like, that bit where he's like, kind
of rubbing his face on the light bulb

and then he tells the Jesus joke, like,

Jorri: That's camp.

Ben: Yeah.

Like, he is not this, like,
monotone, grim Avenger.

Emily: yeah, he is fun to watch, but also
has, you know, is sad and like badass.

Like it's, it's so hard to
have all of those things.

Because you know, you have your Batmans
that are sad and badass and then you

have your jokers that are fun to watch

Ben: It's a fine line for the script to
walk, and then, it takes such a talent to

bring that dictonomy and those emotional
extremes to life, and, God, Brandon Lee,

Jeremy: yeah, there's, there's some
directorial choices around some of his

performance that I'm not crazy about,
like the tragedy ballet that he does

when he goes back to his apartment, and
he just sort of flails around a bit and

then throws himself out the window and
spins around and it was like what is this?

Jorri: A little much.

Emily: Okay, there's a lot I'm
gonna I'm, I am here to defend,

I am the defense of this.

First of all, cause he was
re remembering what happened.

He was reenacting it.

Jeremy: I remember.

Emily: I thought it was fine.

The secondly, we have to
look at his back muscles.

Jorri: Of course.

Ben: god, those

Emily: important.

This is very, very important.

Jorri: So Jeremy, I want to follow
a thread that you were tugging on,

um, when you said that some of the
directorial choices behind his line

delivery were a little questionable.

Like, okay, we love Brandon Lee, but I do
want to bring up two moments, and they're

both with Sarah when she says, when he
like rescues her and she's like, what are

you supposed to be some kind of clown?

And he goes, sometimes, with this
little wistful smile is so cute.

friggin corny.

I mean, like, we love it, but oh my god.

And then, of course, the iconic moment
of it can't rain all the time is like,

I know what you're doing, but oh my

Ben: I'm not sure what I'm not sure
what actor could have done that.

Like, who could have pulled that

Emily: Nobody.

Nobody could pull it off.

He barely did, but that's
because of the context.

Ben: My favorite.

One of my favorite moments of
like, little moments of his acting

is when he's pretending to be
hurt by getting shot by Fun Boy.

Jorri: Hand

Ben: keeps making like
the noises of being hurt.

But his face

just keeps like, yeah, like it.

It's amazing.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: that moment the
jury was talking about.

It inspires this instinct in me of
like, I just want to do Jim Kelly

from Entering the Dragon, just
being like, you're straight out

of some kind of comic book, man.

Like, that's just what
that dialogue sounds like.

It's like, that is something you could
get away with on a comic book page.

But like, when you actually say it
out loud, you're like, Hmm, need

Jorri: Like, this should
have been left on the cutting

Ben: there's absolutely worst versions
of this movie where Ernie Hudson says

like, people don't come back from the
dead, this is real life, not a comic book.

I'm glad we didn't get that
version of that movie, but there's

definitely worse versions that would
not have, you know, resisted the

urge to be complete fucking hacks.

Emily: we did get David Patrick Kelly
saying, this is the really real world.

There ain't no coming back.

We killed you dead.

There ain't no coming back.

Ben: no notes to David Patrick
Kelly's fuckin performance.

I do love Guy from Hackers,
just havin all the knives.

Emily: Oh, Lawrence Mason?

Yeah.

Jeremy: God, this is so he's trying
so hard, but that part is so racist.

It's like every line that he delivers is
about him being black or having knives.

And then he

Ben: I was impressed when he did that,
like, knife throw, when he, like,

nailed, uh, Eric from Across the Room.

Jorri: This movie's so big on knives.

Do you remember the
knife wall in their lair?

Just a very

casual knife wall?

Ben: Okay, no, I did not question that.

You take one look at Michael Wincott
in this movie and go like, Of

course this guy collects swords.

Jorri: 100%.

Ben: Of

Emily: This, dude.

Ben: does.

Emily: I know this dude.

This dude.

Was a fucking Warhammer geek,
and then suddenly he had a growth

spurt, and he became a hot goth,
and he was like, holy shit.

I have this newfound power and
I'm going to use it for evil.

And so he like straightens his hair and
grows out and like collect swords and

has a hot Asian girlfriend slash sister.

Ben: Oh, okay, are we gonna
address Are we gonna address the

possible incest of the movie?

What

Jorri: also, like, let's be real,
let's drill down, like, Also,

though, kinda like Me and Who.

Like,

Emily: Yeah.

Jorri: They are a little
bit me and who, you know?

Jeremy: mean, I, I can only
assume that this is a like

foreign stepsister situation.

Ben: I

guess.

Look, find someone who
matches your freak the

Jorri: Matches your freak.

Exactly, they match each other's freak.

Ben: Oh yeah.

Emily: And also Michael
Wincott, like, sure.

He could do it.

He's on every drug,

Jeremy: I do want to talk about
the Wynne caught on here, it was

as, you know, Antlers, Hulst, the
crazy uh, cinematographer from Note.

Ben: so what we're saying is we've
never seen Michael Wincott not

doing a crazy accent on top of
his already distinctive voice.

Emily: Oh my

Jeremy: if only, we had an excuse to
talk about Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves

and him playing Gis Guy of Gisborne.

Emily: I can't remember who he plays,
but he is in the film Basquiat, and

he plays this like super flaming art
critic, and I, I'm sure he's based on

a real person, I can't remember who.

But he's going for, like,

Ben: A Harvey Fierstein.

That sounds like we'd be doing
a Harvey Fierstein impression.

Emily: yeah, basically.

Ben: I mean, Michael Wincott
is Committing to a southern

accent in, mm, half the lines?

Emily: he's just talking with a southern,

Ben: Troll.

Emily: well, it's not so much a
southern at all, he's just talking

with southern, like, diction.

he's just like, Macho Man.

He's like, hey brother,

Jorri: And the director's
like, this is fine, this works,

Ben: Yeah, like, he's talking like
he just marathoned a bunch of Dukes

of Hazzard and he's got that thing
going where you watch too much of

the show and then you start hearing
it in your head for a little while.

Emily: oh, this is probably how
he, how he prepared for the role.

Should I recap this

Jeremy: Yeah.

Emily: Okay.

It's October 30th, devil's Night.

Detroit is a picture of hell.

We think it's Detroit's Detroit
and the comic it looks like

some Tim Burdened hellscape.

Ben: It was mostly this opening
scene that was the most impacted

by Brandon Lee's passing.

He passed, only three days before
filming was done, and it was when

they were filming the opening
scene, and so that was like the last

major scene that they were filming.

Emily: We zoom in on the crime
scene where Eric Draven and his,

girlfriend, Shelley Webster are killed.

Shelley's been raped.

Jeremy: I'm unclear on this.

Did they get married

or were

they getting married?

Jorri: then, and then they go like, what
kind of freaks get married on Halloween?

The obvious answer is goths.

Ben: Yeah, like, The kind who'd come
back from the dead and then just

paint, weird clown faces on themselves.

that makeup Brandon Lee actually
did apply that makeup to himself

for that extra authenticness.

Jorri: I love that.

Emily: Good for him.

The makeup look does come
from Alice Cooper, makeup.

Ben: percent

Emily: Okay,

Not Kiss.

Otherwise he'd be like a cute kitty cat.

Ben: That would be

Jeremy: Or it could be a star man,

Jorri: Yeah, the star.

Emily: There's the devil, the
Starman, the kitty cat, and then,

Ben: I know, I really feel the
kitty cat would be the best.

Like,

he just bursts through the
window, he's like, kitty cat,

like, I'm here to kill ya,

Emily: yeah, so, yeah,
it's double murder.

Everything's on fire.

It's double's night, but Ernie Hudson's
here, as well as Rochelle Davis as our

teenage alt girl narrator, Sarah, Sarah,
tells us about how a crow can bring a

wrong soul back from the death, back from
the death to put the wrong things right.

sometimes.

Ben: delay.

takes

Emily: a lag.

Ben: while for the crow to fly.

Jeremy: Soul is very heavy.

Emily: so, yeah, one year later.

Everything is wet and raining.

Uh, and as far as this business is
usual, as T Bird's gang is here to

bomb an arcade because of reasons.

Meanwhile, a crow, played by a raven, is
waking Eric Draven up from death in the

middle of the Sisters of Mercy video.

So Eric is crawling out of the
grave looking fine as hell.

And he is led, yeah, he is led
through every New Line Cinema

set to collect his new wardrobe.

We also get our first iconic needle
drop, which is Big Auntie by the Stone

Temple Pilots, and that's what the bad
guys are listening to in their car.

Jeremy: For four seconds.

Emily: In fairness, this is the
song that was playing all the

time on the radio at that point.

So, you know,

if, if, Yeah, if melancholy and
the infinite sadness had not

dropped yet, otherwise it'd be

Ben: Well, did we get Ernie Hudson
being, like street hot dog chef?

Jorri: to talk about the Lizzies.

Oh my god, that comes later,

Emily: yeah, well,

Ben: mustard, bun,
mustard, hot dog, ketchup,

onions,

more onions.

That's the, that's the
Ernie Hudson dog right

Jeremy: it's

Emily: Yeah.

Right.

Jeremy: me, Doug.

Jorri: right?

Emily: Yeah, he's got that dog in him.

Anyway, so, there's the little bit
with, uh, Ernie Hudson and Sarah, and

they're talking about onions and farting,
and it's cute, and they're friends.

Jeremy: Real cops are

Emily: Real caps are not your friends.

Ben: Ernie Hudson is your friend,
but cops are not your friend.

That's the moral of the story.

Emily: yeah, I will say, spoilers,
Ernie Hudson had to choose between

being a friend and a cop, and
he chose friend in this story.

That was his character arc,

Ben: Well, he's introduced
already as, like, the one honest

cop in the corrupt force in the

Emily: Yeah.

so Eric is climbing sexily back up
to his old apartment, which is in

a different Sisters of Mercy video.

He reconnects with his
trauma and pet Petey Gabriel.

Nothing bad happens to Gabriel.

Ben: Oh, that made me happy when
nothing bad happened to the kitty.

Emily: Yeah, the kitty is in the
comic and nothing bad happens to

the kitty in the comic either.

Jeremy: he does a bit of trauma ballet as
he's re experiencing all of these things,

Emily: Yeah,

Jeremy: and

Emily: he does some cool kicks and
flips while he, like, remembers being

shot and stabbed and stuff and he
recounts the names and faces of that

gang that murdered him and his fiancÃ©e
and raped her and all that shit.

Jeremy: The names are, I want to
say, the names are T Bird, Skank,

Tintin, Funboy, then we also get
Grange and Gideon, who presumably

weren't there at the time, but are,

uh,

yeah, they're associates, literally.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: with this movie has with
Robocop is not insignificant.

Emily: And the comic had, like, everybody
had a weird name in the there was like a

Ben: Oh,

Jeremy: the

overlap that Frank Miller and James
O'Barr have is not insignificant.

Emily: That's

Ben: there you go.

Uh, in terms of this movie's action, what
I hadn't picked up on in prior viewings

that really stood out to me this time is,
I noticed, especially with the gunplay,

a really heavy John Woo influence.

There is a real Hong Kong heroic
bloodshed influence here with the

gunplay that works really well and
I think really elevates the action

by embracing that John Wu influence.

Emily: and we also have a bird

Ben: Yeah, like it's not as good as John
Wu, but it's a lot better than it would

be if it wasn't John Wu influenced.

Emily: Yes.

You know, I think it's not supposed
to be John Woo But it like picks

up on the John Woo when it has to

So While Eric is doing
martial arts about his trauma.

He finds out that he is invulnerable
Uh, his wounds disappear as

they as quickly as they appear.

And then over some worse tender
memories, he paints his face, his

shadow smiles at the burn by the Cure.

The undead's goth superhero,
the Crow, is born.

Eric hunts down his killers
and their associates.

One by one, starting with Lord
Nikon, I mean, Tintin, like

Ben: he

Emily: you know,

Ben: jacket.

Emily: we also meet Gideon, the pawn
shop owner, and this guy, the casting

in this is incredible because he looks
exactly like the character he's based

on, like, to a T, like, I figured,
I felt like they, like, drew him

and then, like, 3D printed that guy.

But, oh, oh, it's the iconic beetle
drop, it's the Nine Inch Nails covering

the joy division as uh, Eric does some
rad anime parkour across rooftops.

That's the shit right there.

Oh, yeah, eric uses his crow
powers to find Tintin and they

have a cool fight in an alley.

There's barrels with fire,
there's, you know, crates, there's

dumpsters, it's wet, it's everything
you want out of urban fantasy.

Eric then sticks all of Tintin's blades
into his major organs, in alphabetical

order, and then steals his cool duster.

And rock music plays.

Meanwhile the band Medicine is playing
Time Baby 3, Parts 1 and 2, not pictured.

At a fucking awesome club called,
I assume, Trash, because that's the

big sign on the top of the building.

And we meet our big bad
boss at the top floor.

That's right, it's Michael Wincott.

He is rocking his best Highlander fit.

He is hanging out with his
lover slash sister, cool, um,

Jeremy: is confusingly named Top Dollar.

He is like, he is not a character
that looks like a Top Dollar.

He looks like Sephiroth,

Emily: he's Sephiroth.

Ben: If Sephiroth was
also vaguely pirate y, he,

Emily: yeah, he's like Lestat
Sephiroth, he's Alucard, but like, cool,

Jorri: like, trashy.

Emily: and trashy,

Jorri: so trashy.

Ben: he should have been a vampire in
an Anna Rice movie, but not Interview

with the Vampire, he should have been
in the, like, Queen of the Damned

movie.

Emily: should

Jeremy: yeah,

Jorri: 100%.

Jeremy: yeah I feel like a gang
boss named Topf Dollars should dress

like Macklemore and not like Lestat.

It's a, like, it doesn't
the names don't go together.

Emily: Well, I will,

Jeremy: be going by, like,
Count something or other.

Emily: right,

Ben: he should be Grange and Tony Todd
should be, well, no, Tony Todd, no,

actually Tony Todd's character doesn't.

The way he's dressed with like, nah,
that hair doesn't, nah, nah, that

Emily: Yeah,

Ben: fit it either.

Emily: so the important thing here is that
TopDollar's name, is never mentioned in

the dialogue because his name is weird.

He is in the comic, but
he is not the Big Bad.

In the big, in the comic,
the Big Bad is T Bird.

And I'm glad that they changed
it around because Michael Wincott

and his fit can't, come on,

Ben: Yeah,

Emily: come on.

Like, this was a brilliant choice to
diverge from the original source material.

So,

Ben: well, I do like that he
figures it out enough that we

actually get some stakes in Act 3.

Emily: yeah, so, Michael Wincott and
Micah are waxing poetic and sadistic and,

uh, they're on drugs and they do murder
and stuff Eric tells Gideon that,

like George Washington, he is coming.

Ben: Fires a shotgun full of rings and he
sets the whole fucking building on fire.

Jeremy: That might be the
most badass thing he actually

does in this movie is the

shotgun full of rings.

Ben: Aw, a

shotgun full of rings is fucking hardcore.

Emily: well, that whole sequence
is so, good, because he's, like,

throwing the rings at Gideon, and
he's like, each of these rings is a

life that you helped destroy, and then
he, like, empties the box of rings

into the shotgun, and then he, like,
ignites the entire fucking place.

Ben: I did have the thought, I'm like,
I don't know, I feel like some of those

rings are probably just from divorce.

Emily: or like, you know, Claire's,

Ben: Yeah,

probably not all of them
were, home invasion murders.

Emily: yeah, this explosion alerts
the nearby officer Albrecht.

Albrecht finds Eric and holds
him at gunpoint and they

exchange some fantastic quips.

Eric admits to murdering Tintin and
leaving the blood graffiti, and then

he disappears while James O'Barr
himself, that is James O'Barr, looting

the shop and then distracts Ulbricht,

Jeremy: Really pay comic creators better.

Emily: yeah, I know, right?

I mean, I feel like there's
something to be said.

There's like a class
thing there to be said.

Anyway, back to Michael Wincott
and some good old fashioned 1990s

fetishization of quote unquote Asian shit.

T Bird is here to announce the unusual
goings on regarding Gideon and Tintin.

Michael Wincott says, all right,
well, just figure it out and I'm

gonna do some drugs about it.

And then we are back to Sarah.

This is all happening in
one night, by the way.

This is like a 48 hour story.

Uh, except for the one year earlier.

Okay, so Sarah, meanwhile, is about to
be run over by a car, but Eric saves

her and he's trying to hide his identity
but is really bad at it because he outs

himself by quoting his own goddamn song.

That's right, before he was a dead
crow hero, he was a grunge musician.

Perfect.

Jorri: Of course.

Also, another, I'm sorry to interrupt,
but another little connection to the Anne

Rice universe with Lestat, that in, in the
sequel to Interview with the Vampire, in

the Vampire Lestat, it's like, Lestat's
like, I'm gonna tell my story now.

Also I'm a rock star.

Because for some reason there's this
insane like trope in writing where if

you instantly want to make your character
cool but you don't know how to write,

you're like, you're like, this
is my character and by the

way, they're also a rock star.

They're

Ben: yeah, how much was just and
rice is horny for glam rockers

Emily: mean,

Jorri: fair, but usually as a, as a
writing trope that's like, oh boy,

go, go back to undergrad, my dude.

Emily: Yeah.

Well, listen,

Ben: rock stars are interesting
So if I write rock stars, then

my character is interesting.

Jeremy: I feel like it's one of
those things that all, all comic book

writers want to be rock stars and
all rock stars want to be actors.

Emily: okay

guys I gotta say the comic Eric
Draven was not a rock star.

He was a construction worker

He did not play the guitar.

Yeah.

Jorri: The construction worker,
like, honestly that's progressive.

Emily: yeah, and the thing in
another big part of it Is that

they didn't have a loft in town.

They had one of those like cheap.

Well, they had one of those houses
You On the outskirts of Detroit,

which was now, yeah, like he, I
can't remember what that area is

Jorri: Which you can buy
for like, 7 and change now.

Jeremy: you

mean an eight mile?

Emily: the 8 mile.

Yeah,

Jeremy: Yeah, we're, he's from the

same place as Eminem.

Emily: Yeah,

Ben: I think the over like the reason
why Eric and Eric's fiancee blanking

on the name and Shelly were killed was
because like they lived in a building,

top dollar owned and they were, and
top dollar wanted everyone to move out.

'cause I guess it's a rent controlled
building and he has to respect that

unless you can murder everybody.

And so they were trying to get
improvements in the building and

he was just like, kill him and then
everyone will leave so he can do

Emily: Yeah,

Ben: I guess

Emily: yeah, he's got, I mean, I
don't know what his whole, like,

end game is for his business.

I think he's just like,

Jeremy: he's

a real Donald J.

Trump.

Ben: he is real proud
of Devil's Nights, which

just seems to be.

night?

Emily: I mean, Devil's Night, it's
a thing, like, that's a real thing.

Yeah,

Jorri: you guys called it
Mischief Night or Devil's Night?

On the East Coast, at least, I think.

For us, it was

Ben: Yeah,

Emily: Night.

initially.

Ben: well no, the movie implies that like
Devil's Night as it is in this incarnation

is something that like Top Dollar and
like T Bird started and like T Bird just

going around setting fires every year
And I guess every year them, you know

Detroit being like, ah, what can you do?

Jorri: Oh, well.

Ben: And at some point, so it just seems
to be Arson Knight, and at one point

fuckin Top Dollar says that there's
Devil Knight's greeting cards, and,

what?

Jorri: I love

that.

would've

Ben: I, wanna see it!

What does that say?

Like, sorry your house got burned down?

Jorri: XOXO.

Cuz we're pro.

Emily: I'm, I, I'm,

Ben: look like, do you like, top dollar?

Emily: We're gonna have to rename him,
but I'm gonna start making Devil's

Night greeting cards with the Michael
Wincott fit character on it with his

Ben: That is such a fucking, like, Silver
Age Batman villain plot of, like, I'm

gonna create my own holiday and then
corner the greeting card market for it.

Emily: Yeah, no, I think that there's,
it's definitely like, his whole

character is like, I'm a comic book
villain, and I do things because of

reasons, you know, like, I'm craaazy.

Ben: Like, I'm gonna dress like a vampire
and have my sword wall and make out with

my magical girlfriend's maybe sister.

Emily: yeah.

So, I have a question.

Why is all the graffiti in the
background weird occult shit?

Like, if you,

Ben: Cause this movie atmospheric as fuck.

Emily: yeah,

Jorri: Very simple answer,
because it's the crow.

Emily: I guess,

Ben: It is that, uh, it's that
wonderful 90s, like, everything about

this movie feels really lived in.

Like, fucking 90s movies could do,
like, dirty and grimy and grunge in a

way that you just don't fucking get.

Emily: And those,

Ben: You

Emily: are,

Ben: You can't do, it
with the fucking volume.

Emily: oh no, you can't.

And no, and you can't do it with like
the HD kind of cameras that they use

now because it's like, you have to make
things, you have to force blur if you

want it to be, like, feel that lived in.

Because otherwise, you
know, everything is so flat.

Anyway, okay, so, graffiti, occult, why?

Shut up, apparently.

Except for T Bird, everybody
else on the street is a demon.

That's problematic, but you
know, it's on brand for this.

So, Officer Albrecht is on the case,
even though it is not, he is not a

detective, and it is not his case,
but he is trying his best not to be

a bastard despite his profession.

So now we are here with
Eric's next target, Fun Boy.

Fun Boy is a bimbo of a dude
who is apparently begging

our girl Sarah's mom, Darla.

They're on a lot of drugs and
they're listening to Machines of

Love and Grace when Eric shows up
and he does some goth shit at them.

And he, uh, forces Fun Boy to overdose.

arranging the needles in his chest with
the bird around them and, you know,

doing his little bird signature thing.

also

attacks,

Jeremy: superhero.

Emily: oh yeah, he's very,

Jeremy: How long must it have taken,
not just the needles here, but the

like fire that he starts later on,
that it's in a perfect crow shape,

like,

Emily: just that good.

Jeremy: He's

just he's just out there with
like some measuring tape and

Emily: He doesn't need to do that.

Jeremy: yeah.

Emily: Hannibal.

just comes to him.

Jorri: Very Proto Hannibal,

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: I just remember when they did
this in the 2003 Daredevil movie,

and it made way less sense there.

Emily: Yeah,

Ben: but

Jeremy: I was just remembering
the Bad Punisher movie, so.

Ben: I mean.

It really, like I said, the number of
movies that tried so hard to capture the

very specific feel of this movie, and
none of them fucking really captured that.

Emily: Even the Crow City of Angels,
which did its, it's did its best

Jeremy: I do wonder if, like, this
movie isn't what was wrong with

superhero movies for the longest time.

As they were like, well, the crow worked.

That's the only superhero movie we've
been able to get to work so far.

So,

Emily: but it

Jeremy: make everything else darker.

Emily: Yeah, it

Ben: weird that,

Emily: book.

Ben: I mean, the weirdly Dark, and dirty,
and grimy, and lived in superhero movie.

That first Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles movie.

Emily: Oh, yeah,

Ben: That sewer in that first
Ninja Turtles is so goddamn sewer

Emily: It feels

Jeremy: the sewer looks better
than New York does in that though.

Emily: yeah, you can smell, like,
these are movies that you can smell,

like, you can smell Ghostbusters,

you can smell the dust, you can
smell Zuul anyway, so, Eric kills

Fun Boy, and then Darla tries to run
away, and he, Eric apprehends her

and uses his magic powers to squeeze
all the morphine out of her arms.

Ben: has drug expulsion powers.

Jorri: talk about that?

Like, okay.

Very random power

he could have just like, I
guess, I guess for the plot, you

can't kill her, but like, yeah.

Morphine expulsion, that's
a, that's a new one.

Ben: That reminds me of like,
those old Superman movies where

Superman will just burst out like,
Repair Great Wall of China Vision.

Jen?

Emily: yeah,

Jorri: Very

casual

Ben: Or just rip, the S off
his costume and like, capture a

villain in it, and it's like, you
could do that this whole time?

Why can you do that this whole

Jeremy: like, I feel like it is, it is
important that he doesn't kill Darla,

but it does also feel like he is 30
seconds away from telling her about

her savior Jesus Christ in this scene.

Emily: oh yeah, well he,
and that's another thing is

that like he says,

Ben: don't do drugs.

Emily: yeah, he does a bit of that in
this movie, like he's all, don't smoke.

Also, I'm going to do some murder, but

Jorri: mother is the name for God on the

lips and her

Emily: and

Jorri: of

all

Emily: all children.

Yes.

That's a

Jorri: Okay, thanks.

Thanks for the didactic
little, you know, lesson there.

Thanks, Sarah, who's never been a parent.

Emily: Right?

Yeah, well,

he's

Jorri: fair, she's not parent
of the year, this we know.

Emily: That's

Jorri: But one scene
later, she tries, you know?

Emily: He is in the, in, like, the
original source material, not to,

like, you know, be this person, but

all of his dialogue is, like, goth poetry.

Like, he just goth

Ben: Well there I did think it was
weird when he looked into the camera

and said, My love has been cut
down, like we must cut taxes on U.

corporations.

Emily: I

that was a weird one.

That's an unusual edit.

You know, you have to, like, really, you
have to really go deep dive on that one.

Okay, so, Darla escapes and
she becomes a better mom.

The end.

Anyway, so, Grange who is Michael
Wincott's enforcer, aka Tony fucking

Todd, shows up to collect Gideon, who
is at the club where Fun Boy lives

and Darla works, it's a whole thing.

Jeremy: He really is sort of
like the Stringer Bell character

because it feels like he is his
accountant and also enforcer like

it's and

Emily: much bigger than
everybody else in this movie.

Jeremy: better dressed

Emily: God.

Grange witnesses Funboy's final moments
and also Eric's impish egress through

Meanwhile, Albrechts is at home and
he's doing his best when Eric shows

up out of nowhere in the house and
they can talk about what happened

and also how Eric is dead and stuff.

Eric tells Albrecht to stop smoking,
stay in school, and oh yeah, please don't

get in the way of my vengeance spree.

Albrecht is like, okay, and then
Eric psychically pulls out of all of

Shelley's life support trauma out of
Albrecht's memories, because I guess

that's a thing that crows can do.

Jorri: Because writing.

Emily: Yeah, because he's got crow

Ben: mean, I believe crows can do that.

I mean, look, crows are
up to some crazy shit.

Like, who knows what crows can do?

Emily: Yeah, they also can
like pull your morphine out.

Have you seen them not do that?

Jorri: To be fair, not yet.

Emily: Yeah, so like, how do we know?

So, T Bird and Skank are the last
two jokers on the jokers hit list.

They're making the best of it themselves.

Gideon has reported Eric's name to
Michael Wincott and, company and gets

a sword to the throat for his trouble.

There is no quickening.

I'm sorry.

That's later.

There can be only one though,
and that's Michael Wincott.

So while grabbing smokes and road
beers, Skank watches Eric force

T Bird to drive his T Bird away.

Yes, he's T Bird and he drives a T Bird.

That's why it's called T Bird.

Jeremy: oh

Emily: and then the T Bird, you know what
the T Bird has on its, uh, hood ornament?

A bird.

You know what a crow is?

A bird.

Whoa.

I know.

Jorri: Symbolism.

Emily: motif.

Skank apparently has his own
powers of invulnerability as he

gets run over by a car driven by
like Henry Rollins, basically.

And then Skank gets up, punches out this
not Henry Rollins man who looks, who's

about the size and shape of Henry Rollins
and then steals the car that just hit him.

Jorri: Can I just say, imagine getting
beaten up for getting run over.

Emily: Yeah, getting, being

Jorri: Imagine that's, somebody hates
you that bad, they run you over, and then

they're like, how fucking dare you get
run over by a car, I'm kicking your ass

right

Emily: know,

Ben: was incredible.

That

Emily: that whole, like the,
that whole sequence perfect,

and now I'm gonna tell you why.

Ben: some real, like, judge dread.

Just everybody on the just
a mon is just a monster.

Emily: Yeah so there's this whole car
chase, and it is a real comedy of errors,

there are cops, and they're talking
about donuts, and apparently cops, all

the NPC cops in this movie that aren't
Albrecht or his, like, the other black

cop, Who's nice, probably, hopefully,
I don't know, she's, doesn't act like

a bastard on screen, but then, and then

there's, She's still a cop.

so, sorry and then,

Ben: Still a cop and
still not Ernie Hudson.

Emily: and she's not Ernie Hudson,
that's true, and then there's

like the biggest bastard that
ever bastarded, which is Torres.

But anyway, so all the other cops,
all they say is, what in the crap?

Like, that's their NPC line.

I don't know why, but whatever.

they run into, uh, Skank, while Skank
is following T Bird, and oh, it's

so funny, but the bit that I love
about this is Skank falls out of the

car and as the car is sitting there
smoking, you can hear the door Chime

as the like when the door is ajar.

There's like a little doofy chime.

It's so, it's just such a
great, it's great sound design.

Anyway, so, after that car chase and
several quips, Eric exacts his final

revenge the and tied up T Bert.

This is the really real world, you guys.

There ain't no coming back.

Game over, man.

Ben: This was Final Destination was an
actual guy, it's the crow in this scene.

Like, how much can you kill a guy all at
how many ways can you kill a guy at once

is what this scene sets out to find out.

Emily: Yeah, Eric basically tapes T
Bird into his T Bird and, like, puts

a brick on the gas and Charlie B.

Barkin's him and explodes
him into the river.

And, you know, T Bird tries to,
to do some cool goth poetry.

He reads his articulate
reading of Paradise Lost.

does not save him.

There could be only one
goth poet in this film.

and

Ben: it's an undef if it's an unjust
death, A crow will bring him back.

If a crow doesn't bring him back, sorry
T Bird, I guess you deserve to get

exploded in a car crash into a river.

Emily: yeah, so, yeah, he, he did.

And then Eric does

Ben: Oh yeah, no, he absolutely fucking
deserves to get exploded into a car crash

Emily: Oh, yeah, he was, he was a bad man.

He was a bad man.

And he is basically reprising his
role as the bad guy from the Warriors.

Like, the only thing that he's missing
is the fucking bottles on his hand.

Like, he's like, Eric Draven,

Jorri: out and

Emily: out play.

Ben: Come out and show us
your back muscles some more.

Emily: Yeah, be cool.

Eric

Jorri: That'd be sweet.

Emily: makes his crow out of fire.

You've probably saw it in all the
international imports on posters.

If you were in the, if you remember
what international imports is

Ben: If you were a college student
in the late 90s, you definitely

had this or knew somebody who had
this poster on your dorm wall.

Emily: Absolutely.

For real.

Okay, so the sun rises on the morning
of October 30th, and Tony Todd has

discovered Eric's grave, wide open,
waterlogged, and empty as hell.

Meanwhile, at the police store, bastard
detective Taurus is like, hey Albrecht,

what is going on with all these bad
guys exploding and the weird bird

glyphs, and Ernie Hunson's like, I don't
know, lol, uwu, I'm doing that thing,

Jeremy: Once you detect
something detective,

Emily: Yeah, he's like, detects!

Ben: the police scenes
really hammer home like.

1994 doesn't feel terribly long
ago, but just how different it was,

everyone smoking everywhere they go.

Emily: oh yeah, especially
in this hellscape of, like,

magical Tim Burton Detroit,

Ben: like, does Ernie Hudson have
any scenes where he's not actively

smoking, including his fight scenes?

Emily: he spits the cigarette out.

Ben: Yup.

Emily: Okay, So yeah, Ernie Hudson
is basically like, you know, sucks

to suck, and Taurus is like, sure
does, ACAB, you're not enough of a

bastard, you're suspended, and Ernie
Hudson's like, alright, I guess.

Jeremy: I don't know what sort of uh
police Jurisdiction, this is where

the detectives can just like, hand
out suspensions to patrol officers.

Emily: yeah,

Jeremy: Just like, you're
suspended, because I said so.

Emily: Yeah, I don't know what
that, what Taurus is like,

actual, I mean, he's a detective,

Jeremy: Yeah,

Emily: and the only way I know
that is that Ernie Hunson's like,

you're the detective, detect!

Jeremy: yeah, apparently Ernie Hudson
was a detective and got like, busted

down from doing too much detecting.

Ben: yeah, he was asking questions
people didn't want asked.

Jeremy: There was a
lead and he followed it.

Emily: yeah, he did,
yeah, he was too good.

Alright,

Ben: just too dedicated to the
truth and justice, which is why

he's the good cop we can trust.

Emily: there is one other good cop.

Ben: Never, there is no good cop, kids,
there is no good cop, do not trust them.

Emily: No, I'm

Ben: I don't care how much they look like
Ernie Hudson, they're not Ernie Hudson.

Emily: in, in fiction,
there is one other good cop.

And that's Deputy Andy
Brennan from Twin Peaks.

Jorri: Mmm, there you go.

Emily: So me

Jorri: I need, like, capital G good.

Emily: Yes, that man is pure
and he's still a cop, which is

Jorri: the David Lynch verse.

Emily: that's just how
surreal David Lynch rolls.

Okay, so, Sarah finds her way back to
Eric, they tenderly reunite, Sarah and

Albrecht and Kitty Gabriel all meet then
over hot dogs and are like, Eric, huh?

That's weird.

And meanwhile, uh, Michael Wincott is
slaying harder than Lestat ever did on,

at least in, in film and television.

And he's using the last survivor
of T Bird's crew as bait for Eric

to come and, you know, start some.

Meanwhile, Eric spends the day shredding
on his roof and then he smashes his guitar

in the sunset while he's shred aw, it's so

Jorri: You mean, you mean
Brandon Lee's stunt double,

Emily: Yeah,

no,

there's, I mean, there's a lot of

Ben: I do love him just stealing
a guitar and then just like,

hopping out of windows with it.

Jeremy: his

guitar,

Ben: Like that's why they like that's
the only reason that anybody figures

out It's Eric Draven is because
he's going around with a guitar and

they're like, well, he's a musician.

How do you know?

He had a guitar

Jorri: That's what musicians do.

Ben: Yeah,

Emily: a musician, like he, you
know, it's like how Ernie Hudson

always is wearing the cop hat.

So, you know, he's like the cop.

Ben: and then Biling is like my goth
rockabilly outfit is telling me how

the magic in this universe works

Emily: Yeah, and my weird snood.

Jorri: was legendary, though.

That was a capital L look.

Emily: Oh

Ben: Oh

my god,

Emily: look

was

Ben: goth rockabilly is oh

Emily: iconic.

Alright, so, night falls and we
find our way to the final showdown.

Industrial rock icons, my life at the
Thrillkill Cult, are doing a killer

gig while every cartoon gangster
that ever existed has all gathered

to conspire with the Vampire King.

Michael Wincott, Fredo's there,
Floris Whittaker is there,

Slim Shady's there finally.

They're gonna light the whole
city on fire for the aesthetic.

But then Eric shows up and is like, I
would like that skank over there, please.

they actually don't use the slur skank
for an actual, like, the way that

they did in the 90s for a, a woman,

Ben: There's a guy named Skank.

Emily: There's a guy named skank.

Jeremy: I can only assume
he named after the dance.

Emily: like, I don't think
but he absolutely skanks.

Like, that's how we got that

Ben: I, assume he's named
after, don't know, just meth?

Jorri: on

Ben: quirky character arc is meth.

Emily: yeah, he survives
being hit by a car and then he

steals the car that hit him.

Ben: Yeah, cause he's so high on meth!

Emily: Yeah, yeah, that's drugs, people.

It's not great.

Ben: That's drugs, baby!

If get hit by a cu If I had to get hit by
a car and I had a choice between whether

or not to be on drugs when I got hit by
that car, I'm picking on drugs every time.

Jorri: drug.

depends on the

fine, you're invincible anyway.

Ben: Gimme them fucking bath salts, and
bring on the mitsu and bring on the BMW

Jorri: That's what I'm saying.

Emily: Well, in fairness, Skank
was hit by a shitty hatchback.

So, it does make a little bit
more sense that he survived.

Ben: Oh, fucking.

I could take a hatchback sober.

Emily: yeah,

Ben: That is not an invitation
to hit me with a hatchback

Emily: I mean, if somebody still has
a hatchback, it probably would stop.

Anyway, so, TopTits, uh, Eric is
like, I would like skank, and then

Michael Wincott's like, no, and
then, so, Eric does martial arts

at everybody, and then everybody's
shooting everybody, and there's katanas!

Ugh!

Jorri: Couldn't 90s movie without him.

Emily: oh my god finally, Eric tracks
down skank, fails his deception

roll, and gets thrown out the window.

So, meanwhile Michael Wincott and
Tony Todd and Micah all escape as

the police try to blow up Eric.

A helicopter follows him across the
roof, but Trent Reznor isn't there to

say anything, so he's having trouble,
but then Ernie Hudson shows up and he's

out of his uniform, ACAB, all the way.

Michael Wincott pouts about not being
able to set the fires, but his sister

wife Uses her special knowledge on account
of being Asian to find out that the

key to Eric's superpowers is his bird.

Yes, so, you know, you hurt
the bird and then you hurt him.

He's

Jorri: she is actually
important for the plot.

Ben: Wait,

Emily: is important for the plot.

Ben: you're saying that
the bird is the word

Emily: in a way.

Jorri: Somewhat.

Emily: Somewhat.

You can say that, in fact.

Jeremy: wouldn't, but you could.

Emily: Yeah, I mean,

Ben: legally speaking.

Emily: legally speaking.

You know, physically

Ben: we really do not get any
explanation for how she knows any of

this, other other than she's Asian,

Jorri: you even listening?

Orientalism.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: Know, but I just,

Emily: She also really likes eyeballs

Ben: you'd think like we'd still get
like, a sentence that would still be

Orientalist as fuck, or like, Oh, this
is a legend from old country, or I

learned from old master, old racist

master figure,

Emily: I kind of wish,
I'm glad that they don't

do that.

I kind of, I'm kind of glad
that she's just weird and

Ben: that just, that she's
just Asian and knows magic.

Emily: yeah.

And she likes the pretty lights, which

Ben: Well, who doesn't
like the pretty lights?

Jorri: all laugh at her though,
like, and the way her face falls,

that's like the most kind of subtle,
interesting part of the whole movie.

Ben: I and I default to Russian
accent because nobody has ever been

offended by a person's Russian accent.

Emily: Yes.

I, we can all, I love that.

Jorri: Ethnic baddies
in movies for a reason.

Ben: Yeah,

Emily: Or

Ben: but I'm not getting canceled
for my bad Russian accent.

Let's just put it that way

Emily: The French will come for
me for my bad French accent, but,

uh, they will come for me anyway.

So meanwhile Eric's pretty sure
his work is done here, so he says

his goodbyes to Sarah, prepares to
gothpoet his way back to the afterlife,

Ben: It's somehow raining
and sunny at the same time.

Emily: yeah, it's when
the foxes get married.

That's

Jeremy: rain all the time.

Emily: It can rain sometimes.

I wish it would rain more,
especially right now.

Actually, maybe not.

I don't want it to be hot and rainy.

That's one thing I like about California.

Eric is like, holding his flowers and
like, caressing Shelly's gravestone.

And then he is interrupted when his
bird spots Tony Todd taking Sarah

hostage at the abandoned church.

Where Michael Wincott and Micah wait
with their snoods and gloves and

katanas and it's the final final
showdown time in the cathedral.

Yeah Eric is all bring it bitch
and then Tony Todd shoots the bird

and He weakens Eric and they try
to slay the bird but Albrecht shows

up with a flare and distracts them.

It's a cathedral shootout
Yeah, there could be only one.

I am a mortal.

Well, he's not a mortal
anymore, actually Micah

catches the bird.

He is now a mortal.

Yeah, Eric admits to Albrecht now that
he is perhaps in fact You Not immortal

and perhaps does not have inside him
the blood of kings and it or at least

while he is wounded Albrecht is like I'll
cover you and then doesn't They pursue

Michael Wincott to the top of the church
where they have a fight with swords and

a thunderstorm, but first we have to,
you know, see Micah and how she's like,

I got your bird, bitch, the bitch is
like you, or the bird is like, bitch, you

thought, and then it pecks her eyes out.

Ben: Ah, she pe that bird
pecks the shit out of him eyes

Emily: yeah, and then, like, she falls as
the, you know, the wounded Ernie Hudson

watches her body fall with, like, very
little ceremony and he's like, Yeah.

Ben: that reveal.

I did like that Resolution and being
like, ah, your bird is your source of your

power I got your bird and it's like cool.

Now you just have a wild angry
crow to deal with in face

Emily: Yeah, and there was also this
interesting, through line there, I

guess, because she's obsessed with
eyeballs, and she's always, like,

always taking people's eyeballs out,
and then Burt took her eyeballs out!

Whoa!

Jorri: Writing.

Emily: Yeah!

It's a motif!

Eyes, all the power in the eyes, brother!

Oh yeah!

Jorri: I could see the face you just made.

Emily: I'm having fun.

So, Sarah is clinging for dear life on the
steep, drenched, collapsing church roof.

While Eric fights Michael Wincott's katana
with his fucking wrought iron lightning

rod that he pulls off of the church right
after, I mean, maybe he is immortal,

maybe there be, yeah it's metal as fuck.

And top.

Is like, we aren't so different, you and
I, and imagine the shipping opportunities,

but Eric is like, how about instead I
hit you with a psychic attack where I

download all of Shelly's life support
trauma into your brain all at once?

And then the dude is
like, whoa, what the fuck?

And then he, gets impaled, he falls,
gets impaled on a gargoyle that then

spews his blood out of his mouth.

Jorri: No more goth death
has ever been recorded.

Emily: Fuck

Ben: Oh my god, right?

Emily: Yeah.

my god.

Anyway, so the day them all, Eric saves
Sarah, Sarah saves Albrecht, Albrecht

quits smoking, Eric can finally rest,
and the bird gives Sarah her ring back.

In conclusion, 10 out of
10, perfect film, no notes.

Ben: Okay, there's another moment that
in this movie we didn't talk about.

That, I had to fucking stop.

it's after, uh, fucking
Lord Nikon gets killed.

And, uh, T Bird comes in and he's
like, They put knives in his major

organs in alphabetical order.

How do you do that?

Jorri: He's practiced.

He's this out, like right after like
putting the makeup on and everything.

He's like, all right, this
is going to be a sick ass.

Ben: I absolutely believe
that, like, fucking Eric Draven

is extra enough to do that.

How does T Bird know what
order the knives went in?

Emily: because Eric, while he
was doing his blood glyph on the

wall, he also, like, made a note.

He, like, had

Ben: P.

I stabbed him in alphabetical order.

I'm sorry.

Emily: So

Jorri: If he could say that just to be
badass, like he didn't do that at all, but

he's like, by the way, this is what I did.

Ben: Like, just an insa just
an absolute insane thing.

I'm like, like there's no way that
was on the fucking coroner's report.

Emily: think, I think, I just want
to imagine that Eric, because he's

annotating his crime scenes anyway.

He annotated each stab wound with
the time he like started with the

heart and then the lungs and then the

Jorri: many organs are we talking?

Ben: I

Emily: Wait, the liver then the lungs.

All his major organs.

I think the pancre I mean, I don't know
how many knives, but like if he had

a knife, you, yeah, like I think he
would be like heart, lung, liver, lungs

Jorri: no, no,

Emily: The pancreas is there

Ben: with, well you start
with B for balls, I think.

Emily: Are those major
organs or are they minor?

Jorri: Testicles.

No, no, no, testicles.

So it's stomach testicles.

Emily: testicles.

Yes.

And like, I don't

Ben: I don't think I don't
think that counts as a major

organ, but I don't think it

counts major but it's very

Jorri: No, it's its own organ.

Ben: It's very funny imagining the
crow just stabbing guys in the dick.

Emily: Oh, well he starts,
he starts with the brain.

Jorri: There

Ben: Oh, yeah.

Emily: brain,

Jorri: Diaphragm.

Ben: didn't think of that

when think of organs B.

Emily: lungs, or I guess
one lung, because like

Jorri: Gallbladder.

Emily: gallbladder is part
he might have a gallbladder.

Jorri: different organs.

That's, you know what, he
could have gotten it removed.

appendix.

Appendix.

Ben: Appendix optional.

Jorri: one.

Emily: The appendix was what Eric wrote
on Tintin's body about the knives.

Jeremy: Attach

Emily: see,

Jorri: appendix

and

gallbladder.

Kidneys.

Okay, we're gonna mess
in so many organs here.

Emily: Yeah, I don't know how
many, but he had a lot of blades.

Like, he had two, how many blades did he

Ben: Where was Tintin
keeping all of those knives?

Emily: In his jacket,

cool duster.

Ben: Okay.

Jorri: is a badass 90s movie, that's why.

Jeremy: you ever seen Desperado?

That's what jackets are

Ben: Yeah.

Emily: You ever seen,
you remember Devilman?

Ben: that's fair.

So, think what helped Top Dollar as a
villain just made him a little, just

scarier and more unsettling you know,
now more so than when the movie came out.

Is, at certain angles, he
really looked like James Franco?

And that was inherently scary.

Emily: That is pretty scary.

I wish you didn't say
that, but you know what?

Reality is important.

We have to acknowledge these things.

I have to search my feelings and I know it

Ben: We can't shy away from the
tough discussions on this podcast.

Emily: this is a podcast about
having these discussions and

Ben: Speaking of which, this
movie, it's great, I love it,

it's pretty fucking racist now.

Emily: Yeah, I mean, yeah,

Ben: racist movie.

Emily: Yeah,

Ben: fucking awesome.

It rules.

It's pretty racist, though.

Emily: I'm not saying that, okay,
when I say this movie is perfect,

I'm going to be really quick here.

We're gonna, I'm gonna, real talk, right?

This perfect, this movie is
perfect at being the crow.

Ben: Yes,

Emily: almost better than the book
is, and I'm in a fucking spicy take.

Ben: it's the best version of itself.

Emily: it is the best version of itself.

I love the comic book, it's
weird, it changed my life.

However, I'm gonna say this movie, I did
this movie does stick with me a lot more.

And also the dialogue is so good.

Ben: Oh, yeah,

Jeremy: even when it's so bad.

Emily: Even when it's so bad.

Jorri: mark.

Which, by the way, okay, can I make also
a beautiful segue speaking of dialogue?

Again, we need to go back to the glizzies.

That Sarah is described as a
verbatim genuine hot dogger.

Were

we not gonna talk about how she's the
certified glizzy gobbler of fake Detroit?

We've

Ben: it's Ernie Hudson
who tells her that, too.

like, aren't you the genuine?

Jeremy: it,

Jorri: do they spend on hot dogs?

Also, isn't that like a Chicago thing?

Ben: Multiple.

They spend a while on hot dogs.

Emily: Look,

Jeremy: and the only time she's

Ben: It's the only food we get.

Everybody has eat hot dogs
for every meal the Crow City.

That's

Emily: this is,

Jeremy: as,

Ben: treat, they treat this hot dog stand
like the noodle stand in Blade Runner.

Emily: this

Jeremy: Alicia pointed this out
to me in the scene where they're

talking about the hot dogs.

Shortly after they're talking about the
hot dogs, There's chaos going on behind

her and she's eating a hot dog and she's
eating it like nobody in the history of

Jorri: She physically can't do it.

She's like physically having
trouble eating this hot dog, trying

to figure out the angle of it.

Honestly, like again, if listeners
can't see what we're doing, it's

not even giving the full picture
of like, how I'm imitating the way

she's like, having physical trouble

Emily: she, is like

Ben: She's trying to eat it like she's
trying to get a couch through a doorframe.

Emily: like the monkeys in the beginning
of 2001 Space Odyssey, like she's so

overwhelmed by by this fucking non
Euclidean geometry that is this hot

dog, even though she is a genuine

Ben: Is it sandwich or not sandwich?

How eat?

Emily: Yeah, like, maybe she's
like, maybe, I don't know, maybe

she's trying something new.

Maybe she heard Officer Albrecht be
like, you're a genuine hot dogger,

and she's like, and she's an alt girl.

Jorri: He lied

Ben: Well, clearly not
a genuine hot dogger.

She can't eat a fucking hot

Jorri: you

Emily: Yeah.

that's, you

Jorri: doing?

Ben: He did I'm I know he's
a cop, so he has the power to

do whatever the fuck he wants.

He just, like, takes that fucking
bun out of that man's hand and

is like, give me your business.

I'm the hot dog chef now.

Emily: I, well, you know, that
was at the beginning of the movie

and he still had that uniform on.

That was how his, his
ACAB powers manifested.

How his

Ben: absolute corrupts absolutely,
but unfortunately, only a little

amount of power also tends
to corrupt pretty absolutely.

Emily: Yeah.

Well, I mean, again, badge, uh, no matter
how much power you have with that badge,

you still have the power of that badge.

Which is the.

Ben: I'm written into their union
contracts that police get free hot dogs.

At least in New York, that
feels like something that goes

back to like the city charter.

Emily: And donuts.

Jorri: And at least they
mention doughnuts as they must.

Ben: Yes.

Emily: Yeah.

The lines, this many cops, you
think they're handing out donuts?

It's pretty funny.

Jorri: It's actually like, genuinely, the

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

So is class discussed in this film?

Yes.

What do we think

how

Ben: Well, we have Top Dollar being
like, I am the crime boss, but also

like, that's, organized crime is boring.

I want to be Joker.

Emily: Yeah.

And then every fucking,

um,

Jeremy: ninja stuff with my friends.

Emily: Every ethnic stereotype of
a gangster that is at that table,

Jorri: director is here!

Emily: like, fucking, that dude
is Forrest Whitaker in Ghost Dog.

Like, that guy is dressed up as
Forrest Whitaker in Ghost Dog.

Ben: Again, ostensibly the plot
touches on Landlords, tenant

rights, all the ways landlords
abuse and dehumanize tenants like,

Emily: it,

Ben: Uh, ostensibly like,
theoretically that's

there,

Jeremy: It's

Ben: not actually there, like,

Emily: It touches them like,
like Eric is reaching out for

Ben: the

Emily: gravestone and
slightly caresses it.

It like, slightly caresses the

face of these

Jeremy: so very like, it's so very
like Regan Giuliani like bullshit,

where it's just like, Oh yeah, all
of the city has gone to hell and it's

because of these roving street gangs.

Also, there is a landlord driving
any everybody out of the apartments

that is like that's beside the point.

Ben: what's so, that's very, Robocop about
it is that there is this like roving gay

street gang of sociopathic violence doers
but also they still answer to like the

C, like one of the executives at the big

Jeremy: they're They're, also a classic.

classic 90s multiracial street gang, like

Emily: huh.

Jeremy: they like recruited a
guy with a Southern accent to be

part of their multiracial street

Ben: They made the guy with a
southern accent their vampire boss!

Emily: Yeah, and he's like, yeah, he's
the landlord and he's an organized

criminal,

like,

Ben: theoretically there, but it feels
like it was a studio note where they're

like, Well, we need an explanation
for why they killed, like, The why

they, why Eric and they got killed.

Uh, so they're just like Something,
something, landlord, tenant, murder, done.

Great,

That'll that'll make the executive happy.

We're

Jeremy: it can't just
be rich bastards either.

It has to be like weird dude
and his Asian sister wife who

like live on top of a club.

Ben: No notes on that.

I'm fine with that.

That works

perfect.

Jeremy: the fact is like, This
is exactly what was happening in

New York and like at the time and
it was Donald Trump doing it like

Ben: you know how many?

Do you know how many?

Quasi mystical sister wives we had
in the real estate market in the 90s.

out

Emily: that's how they like that did all
those, you know, that's how they did it

is because they use their magic powers
to, like, take over all the property.

Everybody's sister wife.

yeah, I mean,

Ben: And that's how we got Hudson

Jeremy: and class is the most thoughtful
of the things like it talks about in here.

It is bad on race and social

It is non existent on LGBTQ stuff.

Ben: I mean, I think it gets
points for probably being a

lot of trans masks awakening.

Seeing fuckin Brandon Lee
just swingin around, runnin

all like.

Jeremy: It

is It is notably, notably not
feminist, perhaps even anti feminist.

Jorri: It's god awful.

Ben: mean,

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: mean,

you get, I feel like in this is a world
where where it's like, hey, come on down,

buy a fridge, get a free girl in it for

Jorri: right, right, exactly.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: I feel like the implication is
that like, Sarah is like an indication

of what's wrong with the city, that
there is a girl that dresses like a

boy running around on a skateboard.

Because her mom is a druggie
that's not taking proper care of

Jorri: Can you believe that

Ben: like, if there had been a hap, if
there had been like, a scene where we

get like, oh, now she's got a good mother
and is being raised right and Keese has

been restored to the city, she absolutely
would have been presented like, in a

dress and much more overtly feminine.

Emily: Well,

Jorri: the fact that the most prominent,
like, black gang member says verbatim,

I shanked her pink ass and she loved it.

that is beyond the pale.

Ben: yeah.

that is a fucking Willie
Horton ad as a movie.

Jeremy: Yeah, every sentence
that comes out of Tintin's ass

is just It's so bad that he makes
a like, Massa joke at one point.

Emily: oh, yeah,

Jeremy: in the, you know, the
people's jewelry that he's killed.

Jorri: also that isn't
the first to go, also,

Jeremy: Yeah.

yeah.

Ben: cause then he can, cause then, uh,

Jeremy: Because Eric needs

Ben: his Yeah, can have
a badass long coat.

Recommend.

Emily: He is sad because he's
Lord and Nikon and I love Lord and

Nikon, and that's from hackers.

An equally aesthetic film, but it's
something is a lot more difficult for

us to cover on this show because the
horror element is not as like, you really

have to get in there to pull the horror.

Ben: It's but in a very different way.

Emily: yeah, no, it's fun 90s.

Jorri: But still going for edgy alt.

Emily: Oh, absolutely.

Like, this, I am sad that we probably
can't cover Hackers or Tank Girl, because

Tank Girl, if you're gonna talk about
a movie that is perfect for what it is,

and so, and based on, like, the indiest
comic that ever indied, fuckin Tank Girl.

And has the, such good dialogue, like,
Tank Girl's dialogue is so fun and like,

fucking, you know, I love Harley Quinn
and they do, they've done some great shit

with Harley Quinn, but that Tank Girl,
like, treaded, so Harley Quinn could,

Jeremy: She's the

Emily: covort.

Yeah, also, like, the source material
is equally as different for Tank Girl

because it is so fucking wacky and
like, the Crow source material the

comic is really, it's very indie.

very like early 90s and
actually more like 80s goth.

Jeremy: this is like the
80s black and white boom

of comics.

Emily: Um, Eric Draven has a mullet.

Ben: I mean, look, we're

less than, I mean, what, are we, a
little more than five years removed

from Winona Ryder and Beetlejuice?

Emily: No, that's,

Jorri: That's

Emily: that?

89.

Okay.

Ben: we're, So we're like, yeah, we're,
yeah, so yeah, like, five years out

from, like, Beetlejuice and Winona Ryder.

Emily: Yeah.

Which, is that next week?

Ben: Ooh!

I'm

Emily: that, I'm excited.

for that too.

Ben: Did we match that up
with the release of the movie?

Did we do the good synergy for the SEO?

matter.

Jeremy: yeah, new, there's new
Crows and Beetlejuices coming out.

Ben: Noice!

We nailin it!

Jorri: And Nosferatu on Christmas.

Ben: Fuck yeah!

Emily: Oh shit, that's right.

Oh my god, now that is a movie

Jorri: obviously be of

Ben: really wanna Lil Nosferatu,
where it's Lil Dracula.

Emily: Look, that movie needs to happen.

I mean, this Nosferatu is

Ben: Him and Jonathan, him and
the Jonathan character are gonna

be properly gay, I tell ya that.

Emily: Yeah, no, like, Lil Nosferatu
is gonna be a different film.

It's gonna be about as related
to Nosferatu as Lisa Frankenstein

is related to Frankenstein.

Or Lisa Frank, but in my imaginary
little Nosferatu movie, it is, it,

that one is like Tank Girl as well.

I will not elaborate.

So, have we gone over all of our points?

Jeremy: I am curious that there's
apparently like several different cuts

of this movie that never made it to
screen, several of which include a

character that does not appear in this
version of the film, the Skull Cowboy

Ben: Oh, sorry, what?

They made a character called
the Skull Cowboy and they

did not put it in this movie?

Emily: So,

Jeremy: he's

in of

Jorri: cheated.

Jeremy: so in some of the scenes
that they originally filmed and

they cut all of his stuff and like
they just sort of pasted around it.

Like they cut a ton of stuff in this
movie, including like Skank when he goes

into the, like, I don't know if you guys
noticed, the scene where he goes in to

get cigarettes is really weirdly cut,

and it's like, in the original version,
somebody else is robbing the place as he's

going in there to like, get cigarettes,

and he shot.

Which is why he's limping when he's
chasing T Bird's car, because there's no

reason for him to be limping in the movie.

Um,

Ben: assumed it's like, I don't
know, he just had them, uh,

them, that limp and meth today.

Emily: I, yeah, I mean, he's,
he is having trouble in general

Jeremy: the limp

Emily: his whole, yeah his whole
demeanor, like, his, you know,

his brain and his body have drug.

In the way of their communication.

So I assume, but the, and, you know,
that does get into some ableism stuff

too but, you know, I think that's a
little, that is, especially because we're

talking about scenes that were cut out.

The Skull Cowboy is a character
from the comic, and he is

sort of a It's like a specter.

I don't know if this was the case
in the movie, but he's this specter

that sort of follows Eric around
and drives uh, yeah, gives him

Jeremy: like, this is why this is
happening, and this is how this works.

Emily: Yeah, and then the crow
also is supposed to talk initially.

It talks in the comic, but it's not really

Jorri: the raven.

Emily: Yeah, but the crow is like, the
crow said don't look is the crow's thing.

Crow's saying when Eric was dying, he was
watching all this stuff happen to Shelly.

And the crow was there and telling
him, don't look, if you look, then,

you know, you're going to be, you're
going to have to come back and avenge

this and all this kind of stuff because
the trauma is so bad, essentially.

And, you know, and again,
this is something that was

based off of James O'Barr.

This scene, I'm pretty sure in the book,
it's very evocative of a very similar

scene in the first Mad Max movie.

I don't think it is, like, directly lifted
from James O'Barr's personal experience

but, you know, it is important to note
that this is a comic that is cathartic

which is probably why half of it is got,
like, lyrics from Joy Division songs.

Like, dude fully did lyric posting.

sort of, like, basis for this, like,
Oh, the thing, shit's not fair, it

doesn't matter what you do, like, you

sort yeah, help.

But yeah, I mean, he started working
on the crow initially as like a way

to deal and process that trauma,
which according to him, did not work.

Just made him angrier.

Ben: Oh no,

Emily: Yeah and there's also, I mean, the
crow, the book the crow is very singular

and I think it's definitely, it would be
my recommendation because it's so weird.

I think it's definitely worth a read.

It does have a lot more of the
problematic elements that the movie does.

Jorri: The

Emily: but yeah.

And so, be aware of that.

Like.

In the book Eric and Fun Boy, like,
develop some sort of companionship,

like, they, they sort of have this
rivalry or something, and Eric makes

a deal with Fun Boy and all this kind
of stuff and Fun Boy's character is a

lot more developed which, you know, is,
like, I liked Fun Boy being just, like,

this dumbass in the movie because he
also has a lot of really great lines.

And, the character Fun Boy is
a lot more serious in the book,

Jeremy: Emily, did you I feel like
you probably do, but did you know that

James O'Barr, like, His band was signed
to Trent Reznor's label for a while.

I think nothing ever came of it, but

Jorri: That's so fitting.

Jeremy: Trust Obey is
the name of his band.

Emily: oh yes.

Yeah, they were there.

Trust Obey was one of the Nothing
Records groups and actually Trent

Reznor and James O'Barr were friends
way back in the day in Cleveland.

And that's why Trent Reznor made the
song, because at the time, he was very,

Trent was not really into doing, like,
needle drops in movies, he was not

really like, because there was this
whole thing where these grunge musicians

would do a song for a movie, and then
the movie would be in the video and

all that kind of stuff, and he was,
he was not into that, but that really,

he didn't do a video for the Crow, so.

But because he was friends
with James O'Barr, he was

like, oh, I'll do this for you.

Like, this is, this is something
I'll, I'll do for you because,

you know, I've known you.

Uh, and they were, buddies.

I don't know how far that,
like, friendship lasted.

And you know, like, that's
all I really know about it.

I haven't done the deep dive into that.

But apparently there are people on
Tumblr that are definitely, there's

some, some wonderful souls out there
that are, uh, doing the research now.

Going into that lore, so, maybe next
time I'll have that information, but that

there are sequels to the Crow comics.

There's and I don't know if
they're any good because I've

never been able to find them.

Because City of Angels was.

technically a sequel that had a comic,
but the other two Crow stories one

was about a woman who lost her child.

And then another one was about a
Native American guy, which could

have been a, like, you know, on the
surface, could have been a cool idea.

I don't trust.

I mean, it depends on who did it.

I don't know who did it, but
I remember reading about it.

And I just never found it.

the comics.

And, you know, honestly, if they were
really as good as I wanted them to be,

I probably would have read them by now.

but if I'm wrong, awesome.

And contact us on, on the socials.

If you know anything about
those, because I would love

to discuss them and find them.

do we have anything else?

Jeremy: Emily, have you seen
all of the sequel films?

are three sequel films

Emily: I haven't seen all 3 of

Jeremy: and then there's a TV show.

Emily: I've seen some of the TV
show was, which was like a bad

dream, like, that was a bad dream.

That was like, when you have a
nightmare that you're watching

a movie, but it's way different.

It's like a beloved movie, but
you're, and it's like, so different

and you're like, this can't be
the movie, but it is the movie.

That's what watching the crow.

I can't remember what that show was
like, the crow something, something.

it was difficult.

but I've seen City of Angels and
I've seen The Crow Salvation.

Oh, Stairway to Heaven
is the name of the show.

Stairway to Heaven.

And The Crow Salvation I think
was the one with Edward Furlong.

Jeremy: Yep.

Salvation is the one with Edward Furlong.

Emily: And I, I remember very little.

Jeremy: yeah, there's
City of Angels, you said.

And, uh, the other one is Wicked
Prayer, which is the one where David

Boreanaz plays the devil in it.

That's actually, that's the
one with Eric Furlong in it.

Um,

Emily: oh, okay.

Jeremy: Eric Mabeus, Eric Mabeus
is in the Crow's Salvation,

Emily: I haven't seen that

Jeremy: we saw as, uh,
in, in Resident Evil.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: And the, so the various crows
are all named Ash Corvin, Alex Corvus.

Jimmy Cuervo.

And then again the TV
show is Eric Draven again.

And then the new one with Bill
SkarsgÃ¥rd is just, he's just Eric.

Yeah, I, I feel like it's unfortunate
that the TV show sucks so much because

I feel like Mark Discascus is like
the only one of those guys that it's

like, Oh, he could have been good.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Mark Discascus, like
fight like a motherfucker.

Emily: Yeah.

It felt like the Highlander
television show in not a charming way

Jeremy: I imagine.

Emily: yeah and sadly
none of the actual, like,

Ben: not many ways to complimentarily say
it reminded me of the Highlander show.

Emily: yeah, I mean,

Ben: Not something you generally say
when being positive about a work.

Yeah,

Emily: it to the film
Mortal Kombat's pretty cool,

Ben: hell yeah it is.

Jeremy: Legendary Journeys is fun.

Yeah.

Ben: for something very
90s check out Clueless.

That's my, that's your 90s double
feature, Clueless and the Crow.

Emily: Clueless is

also a perfect film, they do also
mention Nine Inch Nails and Clueless,

Ben: Oh, and a perfect film.

Emily: Yeah there's a really great
early 90s movie that has this kind of

industrial aesthetic called Hardware
which stars Lemmy from Motorhead.

And if, yeah, it's a fun one.

It's weird.

I remember it being weird.

I don't remember it very well, but, you
know, it's, I don't know, I don't think

it's worse than The Crow in terms of
like, Representation or whatever, but

it is a weird one and it's definitely
another one of those that's like,

you like wires and shit everywhere?

You like wire fences?

Well, we got some for you.

This is sort of like Mad meets Crow.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I mean, and I have the comic book.

What else do we recommend?

Ben: Malignant.

Jorri: Oh, yeah.

Ben: Malignant already feels
like a comic from this era, so

Fuck it, just watch Malignant.

Jorri: I mean, like you said,
even, like, 90s music videos.

Even 90s, like,

Ben: Fight

Jorri: music.

Sure, sure.

Ben: yeah.

Recommend Fight Club.

Jorri: You mentioned John Woo movies.

Emily: yeah, I didn't, we didn't actually
say whether we recommend the crow.

assume.

yeah!

recommend the crow.

Ben: Yeah!

recommend crew!

Jorri: certain people will
like it more than others.

People that are either

goth appreciate Kahn.

Emily: Yeah.

Jorri: But people that are
neither of those will just be

like, this is a piece of crap.

Also,

Ben: I know you were not as hot on it.

Jeremy: I feel like this is true of a
lot of movies of this time, like, as

long as you don't, like, as long as
you're not searching for a new political

philosophy in The Crow I think fine.

Ben: If you're here for a new
aesthetic, A, you're 20 years too

late, but B, yeah, fucking get on it.

Emily: It's forever.

Ben: Yeah.

Jorri: mentioned Robocop but
also, actually, I would say,

Ben: people start dressing like
RoboCop, now that'd be sweet.

Jorri: the Tim Burton Batman movies,

especially Batman Returns.

the second one, right?

Batman

Ben: Yep, yep.

Jorri: I'd recommend that,

Emily: Yes, absolutely.

If you want something also, like,
it has the superhero element,

you know, the crow wouldn't

exist without it.

Jorri: It's goth and silly and over
the top, you know, but with an action.

Emily: Like

Jorri: mean, Batman, like,
was it even, even just Batman?

Emily: Yeah,

Jorri: Not anything Batman, but
especially that, that 90s brooding Batman,

Emily: and also being fucking,

I forgot his name.

We're gonna talk about him next week.

Yeah, the actor,

Jeremy: Oh,

Emily: Keaton.

I was going through so many Michaels

Ben: It's really, if you knew
absolutely nothing and were to show

somebody Beetlejuice and said, One
of these actors appeared as Batman,

it's crazy that it's not Alec Baldwin,

right?

Emily: Alec Baldwin,

Jeremy: That would have been terrible.

He's got the chin for it, but it
would have been terrible as Batman.

Emily: was the shadow, right?

Ben: Yes,

so,

Jeremy: you

somebody

remembers that.

Jorri: if you really want to go silly
as hell, um, the 2000 Daredevil.

Ben: yeah,

Jeremy: Yeah,

Jorri: so bad, but it has
that, like, like, it's like

the worst parts of the crow,

Ben: that's the thing, there's so many

Jorri: It's so

Emily: the

Ben: that there's Daredevil,
there's Underworld,

Jorri: Underworld.

Ben: all these movies that are
clearly inspired by the crow,

but them are as good as the crow.

Jorri: all

Jeremy: a thing that is, A thing that
is the most like a sequel to The Crow,

more so than the other Crow movies,
is Alex Price's other good movie, Dark

City.

Jorri: more out there

Jeremy: you're looking for an aesthetic.

Emily: Dark City has the, like,
Dark City is like, if you take The

Crow and then make it not the 90s

Jorri: and

Emily: put some

Jorri: a

Jeremy: instead of on meth, it

was

Jorri: And it's weird concept.

Jeremy: it was on mushrooms
instead of being on meth, you

know?

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah.

It's,

Jorri: And is it, is it also too
obvious to just say like, the Matrix

in terms of aesthetic and action?

Ben: Honestly, no, hell
yeah, no, you're on,

Emily: yeah,

Ben: you're, you're right.

Emily: I don't think, I don't think
The Crow was like, precisely based

off of anime because it's based
on a comic book, but I'm sure,

you know, like, there's a lot of,

Jeremy: I feel like the Wachowskis pull,
like, a lot from that Crow sort of Even

like, even like Bound, before we get to
Matrix, like, Bound has a very, like,

camp over the top, like, it's very much
like a superhero movie just with lesbians.

Jorri: and with Dina Mae, like also, uh,

Ben: sold, sold, I'm there, yeah.

Emily: Oh god, Ninja Scroll.

Jorri: Definitely ninja scroll in okay,
it's way more brutal than the crow,

but it's also, let's just say, uh, not
very woke, but also has those like over

the top moments and you have, you know,
there's like, I think there's a lot going

on there, even like, this, it's not that
similar, but I feel like one who likes

it would like the other vampire hunter D.

Emily: What we ta yeah.

talked about Vampire Hunter D.

Ben: have covered Vampire Hunter and

Jorri: it's like so 90.

Although I think, um,

the one thinking is 2000, right?

that's what I'm thinking.

Just any anybody that likes that,
like anybody that was like a Hot

Topic kid, you know what I mean?

Like all these kind of like films,
even if they're all slightly

different in like tone or content.

I feel like anybody who likes The Crow
definitely likes these other movies.

Jeremy: the Crow is the
granddaddy of Hot Topic.

I feel

Emily: It is, it does predate,
it predates Hot Topic,

as well as, uh, the other Trent
warning movie that we probably won't

be watching is, uh, Natural Born
Killers just on the merit of the

that it is it is more of a thriller.

Ben: Oh, I was gonna say, if we

Jorri: it's like horrific, but

Ben: I was gonna say, if we
don't do the Girl with the Dragon

Tattoo, I'm okay with that.

Emily: that's fine.

Jorri: Also more crime, thriller,

Ben: Yeah.

Emily: Also, there's

Jorri: Horrific, but not horror.

Emily: There's so many things
in The Girl with the Dragon

Tattoo that I could do without,

Ben: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

bad?

Jorri: I like

Ben: not necessarily speaking from
personal experience, but word of advice,

Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, bad movie
to watch with your mother in law.

Huh?

Jorri: Oh yeah, probably not the one.

Emily: my god, yeah, god,

Jorri: or a date, or
like, just watch it alone.

That's lone movie.

Emily: or, you

Jeremy: with somebody nearby, you

Emily: yeah, watch it with some,
like, watch it with somebody that

you can get some, like, you know,
you could talk to maybe get comforted

Jeremy: a, somebody on a PC turned to the
other direction with headphones on just

near It's one of those movies.

you don't want to make the same mistake
I did with the Requiem for a Dream and

just watch it by yourself with nobody

Ben: have somebody in corner
playing Animal Crossing,

that's really the best way to watch

that movie.

Emily: and like, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Be like hey, can you up some,
like, cute videos of, I don't know,

like, I need aftercare after like,

Jorri: for this movie.

Emily: yeah, like, that movie and
Requiem for the Dream and, yeah, like,

some of these movies do, you really do
need aftercare for, but yeah, Natural

Born Killers, I would recommend, just
as, like, a weird 90s movie, and it

is, the Crow comic book is more like
Natural Born Killers, honestly, yeah, I

would say it is weird and psychedelic,
And just like, but in a goth way.

Like if, you know, Natural Born
Killers is like, we got everything.

We got, Patti Smith and we got Air Ramon
and we got fucking Jane's Addiction.

You know, like it was such a weird

Jorri: Well Oliver Stone, also
like, The Doors is basically

like, a series of music videos.

A very similar way, like, I
feel like The Doors, which also

like, not a very good movie.

But, you know, again, like, if you're,
if you like The Crow and you're, and

because of that, you're open to bad 90s
movies that are series of music videos.

Emily: And, you know, Kyle
McLaughlin does play Rayman's Eric.

Kyle McLaughlin is in the
movie and, you know, Kyle

McLaughlin being in a movie does.

Make it better.

I haven't seen the Flintstones
in a really long time.

Jorri: Kyle been a villain of
except for Twin Peaks The Return.

Emily: Yeah,

Jorri: Not the only other
thing he's been the villain in?

Ben: Is Dale bad guy in The Return?

Emily: Oh,

Jorri: Mr.

Ben: I haven't seen

I've, I've honestly never

two Twin Peaks.

Jorri: I'm like the only one who was
not satisfied by The Return, even

though Peaks fan.

Okay,

Emily: wasn't.

No,

Jorri: It's,

Ben: I to see, I got to see him as Mr.

Hyde in season two of Agents of SHIELD.

That's kind of villainy.

Emily: Bob is all the evil
that men yabba dabba do.

All right, how, where are we?

Ben: think, uh, I think we're
at, I think we're at where can

we find people on the interwebs.

Jeremy: Yeah, Jorri, why don't you
let people know where they can you?

Jorri: Mostly Instagram.

It's Jori Roberts,
J-O-R-R-I-R-O-B-E-R-T-S.

And you can find me on
Letterboxed as well.

And my user handle there is horrible
Roberts, H-O-R-R-I-B-L-E-R-O-B-E-R-T-S.

Jeremy: Nice.

And Emily, what about you?

Emily: Megamoth.

net.

It is like Megaman, but a moth.

And all of the stuff is there.

If you want to go straight to the
Instagram, you just need to add an

underscore between mega and moth.

Otherwise, I'm Megamoth
all across the board.

Jeremy: Nice.

Uh, and Ben, what about you?

Ben: Yeah reorder or just keep your eye
out until pre orders are open for Mr.

Muffins coming out from Oni Press in 2025.

Otherwise, uh, you know,
head over to BenKahnComics.

com, sign up for my newsletter,
and find me on Blue Sky on

Instagram at BenKahnComics.

Jeremy: Nice.

Uh, and the point this comes out, we
are less than a month away from my new

book, Navigating With You, being out.

That just comes out in August on the
6th, so you can pre order that right now.

And, uh, you can also come see
Ben and I at FlameCon, uh, on

the 17th and 18th of August.

Uh, we will be, up in New York.

We'll be doing a live, uh, our first
live episode of Progressively Horrified.

Uh, if we can figure out how to
record it, somebody else might hear

it, but otherwise you might be the
only ones if you get, if you show up.

Uh, we will, we will have some,
friends, uh, coming to join us.

So uh, we promise it'll be interesting.

It'll be a lot of fun, if nothing else.

Emily: I won't be

Ben: Congratulations
on navigating with you.

That is so awesome.

Emily: congratulations to both of you
for, yeah, navigating with you and Mr.

Muffin's Saves the Universe,

Ben: thank you.

Thank you so much for hopping
on with us tonight, Jorri, and

is so wonderful having you on.

Jorri: So fun.

I'm always here for nineties goth movies.

Emily: Bless.

I very much, you see how I appreciate it.

Jorri: 100%.

Emily: In my whole, my actually
grunge, not pre worn, but really

worn, faded Nine Inch Nails off brand.

Jorri: ya girl.

Emily: Yeah, thank you.

Jeremy: Well, thank you again
to all of you for joining us.

Thank you to Jorri for
joining us here tonight.

Ben and Emily, as always.

And until next time, everybody, stay goth.

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