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For over 25 years Proverbs 31 Ministries' mission has been to intersect God's Word in the real, hard places we all struggle with. That's why we started this podcast. Every episode will feature a variety of teachings from president Lysa TerKeurst, staff members or friends of the ministry who can teach you something valuable from their vantage point. We hope that regardless of your age, background or stage of life, it's something you look forward to listening to each month!
Meredith Brock:
Hi, friends. Thanks for joining us for another episode of The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast, where we share biblical Truth for any girl in any season. I'm your host, Meredith Brock, and I am here with my co-host Madi Vincent.
Madi Vincent:
Hello, friends.
Meredith Brock:
We are so glad you're here. I don't get to say that last name for much longer.
Madi Vincent:
Only about two more months.
Meredith Brock:
Guys, Madi Vincent is an engaged woman. Well, with that announcement, I just want to let our friends know that we just wrapped up a really great conversation with our new friend, Jamie Finn. She is going to share all about her story of embracing something she never expected God was calling her to and seeing it really radically change her life.
Madi Vincent:
Yeah, this teaching is so powerful. Her story is so intriguing. I was so locked in, and listening to
Jamie ... you're going to love hearing from her. She's awesome. I know you're going to probably leave this podcast episode feeling inspired to say “yes” to that thing that God is calling you to do, no matter how unusual it is. And if that is you, we have a free resource that you need right now. It's called “A Guide to Stepping Out in Faith,” and we've linked it down below in the show notes.
Meredith Brock:
And if you haven't already checked out the other podcasts we have available, you're missing out. Come on. Go check out Therapy & Theology with Lysa TerKeurst, and listen to all five episodes of the latest season on when a relationship is falling apart. Or check out the Encouragement for Today Podcast and hear a short devotion each weekday, perfect for when you've got maybe five minutes in the car, while you're maybe getting ready, or whenever you just need it. Maybe you went on a walk that day — great little five-minute listen. So, all right, friends, enough from us. Let's go meet Jamie.
Well, let's welcome our new friend, Jamie Finn, to the show. We are so excited to have you here, Jamie.
Jamie Finn:
Thank you. I'm so happy to be here, Meredith.
Meredith Brock:
Well, first of all, before we plow ahead into any more of this conversation, I need you guys to know something about Jamie. First of all, she's from New Jersey, and you're going to hear it. We love it. I know Jamie from Instagram, y'all. I got to know Jamie by following her on Instagram. As our listeners know, I am a foster mom, and when I stepped into this world, I had no idea what I was doing. And so I was looking for other people who felt called to be foster moms to help me process this whole thing. And I know for so many of our listeners right now, you hear this “foster care” word, or “foster mom” or “foster family” phrase, and you think, Oh wow, that's not for me. Only crazy people do that. I could never do that because I would get too attached and I could never let the children go.
And I can honestly say we've walked our own journey with that as a family and processing through that. My husband very much felt that way at the beginning of our journey. And so today, my friends online listening to this, I want to encourage you: Don't step back from this conversation because you feel unqualified. Instead, I want to just encourage you to lean in and listen to where the Lord may be calling you to be a part of this. Because I think it is so clear in Scripture that we are to care for widows and orphans and be the hands and feet of Jesus. And so you're not disqualified just because you can't be a foster mom or a foster family. There are so many other ways. And so to really lead us in this conversation, I really wanted Jamie to share her story and tell us a little bit about what her family looks like and what this process of embracing foster care has been like. So, Jamie, why don't you take it away?
Jamie Finn:
Yeah. I'm so happy to be able to do that because it is the stories of other people that God used to really open my heart to foster care as well — because like so many people listening, I always knew that foster care existed sort of in theory. I knew that some people took in foster kids, but I had never seen it in real life. And even as someone who loved children and who wanted to adopt, I never really thought for a moment that [foster care] had anything to do with me. And then in 2011, my brother and sister-in-law decided to adopt a waiting child from foster care. And to be honest, I thought they were crazy. I thought that it was not a good choice, that it would hurt their family, and I couldn't understand why they would choose to do something so hard. Then by 2012, I had fallen in love with my new niece. I met her and loved her.
And I read the book Radical by David Platt. And what this book did for me was it destroyed my “one boy, one girl, happily ever after, American Dream” idea. This book filled me with a holy discontent to use up my days and my home and my life for something that was missional, something that was eternal, something that was bigger than me and for others and for Jesus. And soon that discontent, that drive for something, became more specific, more focused to vulnerable children. I believed that one day we would adopt or help kids in some way, but when I became aware of the needs of children in my community, in my town, it changed the way that I thought our family would be used. Now, my husband wasn't quite so sure about this newfound passion of mine. So together we sought out God's Word. He was afraid and didn't believe that this was the right thing for our family.
And so I said to him, “Can we go to God's Word together, and can we search for the places where God reveals His heart for children, for the vulnerable, for the poor, for the struggling? And then can we look for the places in Scripture where God talks to His children about caring for these children?” And I basically said, “Listen, babe, maybe we are not supposed to do this, but I can't shake it. And so if we are not supposed to become foster parents, then I need you to suggest to me how it is that you think we should use up our lives for Jesus and others.” Though he was scared and unsure, he became compelled by what he saw in Scripture, by all of the times that God talks about the fatherless and the orphan and the vulnerable. And my husband is a man of conviction; he doesn't want to have to do something in order to decide to do it.
So while foster care for me became a passion and sort of this dream mission, for him, it was a sacrificial act of obedience. So our deal was one kid. One time. We became foster parents, and we welcomed our first child, and we entered the roller coaster of foster parenting. Our very first foster placement was a 1-year-old little girl, and soon after, we quickly welcomed another baby girl, and both of these girls became our forever daughters through adoption a couple of years later. But before adopting them, and after, we cared for many other kids and said “goodbye” to them, and we continued to welcome kids and say goodbye. We cared for a baby boy with a broken femur, who needed lots of extra care before moving on to his adoptive mom, who was a brand-new mom. We cared for a 5-year-old little girl who was one of eight kids, and the kids all had to be in separate homes because of what they had experienced together.
We cared for a little boy who came into our home multiple times as his mom was in and out of treatment, and he would join her there and then need to return to us. We cared for a teenage girl who could articulate and verbalize the abuse that she had experienced and the fear that she felt about returning home. And we cared for a little girl for the first 2 ½ years of her life, who became an adoption case, and we believed we were on the path to adoption with the blessing of her mom; we haven't seen [her] again since she left our home two years ago.
And then we welcomed (two years ago) a little 5-pound, 2-week-old baby who we adopted last summer, bringing our kid count to our two biological children — who were 5 and 2 when we started this journey and are 14 and 11 now — plus our three adopted kids, who are 9 and 8 and 2. And I would say that that was our full family until last Monday, when we welcomed another little one to the family, a 2-month-old who we're fostering for now, and it looks like he'll be sticking around for a while.
Thirty kids. Thirty kids in and out of our home, from two days to 2 ½ years to forever. We have experienced the great joy of getting to love these kids and the heartbreak of saying “goodbye” to them after falling in love with them. We've experienced the difficulty of parenting kids who've experienced trauma and the stress of navigating the system and having the state in our home. The past 10 years of fostering have brought 30 children into our lives, but it's brought more than 30 children because it's brought 30 families into our lives.
I sometimes say that I became a foster parent for the wrong reason because I got into foster care for the kids and only the kids, and I got into foster care to protect … horrible, criminal, addicted, selfish parents — to protect kids from them. That was the perspective I had. I got into foster care believing that reunification of families, coming back together, was the unfortunate byproduct of the system. I got into foster care forgetting that as precious to the heart of God as children may be, families are just as precious. God convicted me and opened my eyes and heart to the mothers, the parents, the families, of the kids who were in my home. And so I began to get to know their stories, and knowing their stories built compassion in my heart that made me lean into relationship, which then led to getting to know them more and their stories more, which led to more compassion, and so on.
And I went from seeing them as the enemy who did something wrong that I had to rescue and protect these broken kids from to seeing them as broken people themselves who needed the same compassion and support as their children. [I went] from seeing just victim and perpetrator to seeing us all in need of Jesus, all of us needing a Savior. And being in relationship with them, I began to know these parents' needs and began to meet their needs to serve them and pray for them and see them, the parents and the families, as part of the mission of foster care.
Foster care wasn't just about welcoming a child into our family. It was about, in one way or another, welcoming a family into our family. What I've come to understand is that when I was holding this view of foster care that was simply about a child leaving a home where there was abuse and neglect and coming to my home where they would be nurtured and protected, I was missing out on the devastating — joyfully devastating and important — journey that foster parenting can be. Foster care for the Christian foster parent is about something so much more than loving on kids. And it's even about something so much more than parents and kids being brought back together again … because foster care for the Christian foster parent is about playing a part in the restorative, redemptive, eternal mission of Jesus.
Foster care is gospel work, which means not vaguely that it's something that Jesus loves. It means that it is at the heart of what Jesus came to do. Jesus came to make new what was old. He came to bring life to what was dead. He came to bring healing to the sick. He came to bring wholeness to what was broken. He came so parents who are stuck in a cycle of trauma and addiction and abuse and sin could come to know Him as their Savior and their Father and their Comforter. He came so that families that were created to mirror the perfection of Christ and the bride [of Christ, the Church] — to reflect the love of the Father and the Son [and the Spirit] — could be brought back together in wholeness.
Foster care is gospel work because it is at the heart of the gospel, the restorative, redemptive, eternal work of Jesus. This means that my days as a foster parent, which are spent neck-deep in parenting … It means that the diaper rash of the baby who lived in a soiled diaper, or the night terror of the child who experienced really painful things, or the late-night conversations with the teenager who is confessing fears and hard things in their past — that day to day of foster parenting is not about the diaper rash or the night terror or the conversation. It is about playing a part in bringing God's Kingdom to earth as it is in heaven.
That's what foster parenting is about, and that's what all of us who surround foster parents can be about: this mission of playing a part in Jesus' work on earth. This life of foster parenting is about more than ourselves, more than our families. It's so much bigger than the kids we care for, and it's even so much bigger than their families. Foster care is about protecting children. It is about families being healed. But more than that, foster care is about Him. It's about His mission and His gospel and His Kingdom and His glory.
Meredith Brock:
Wow. So profound, Jamie, in so many ways … and so relatable to the resistance of entering into this journey. In the beginning, I think, for me and Mac, my husband — I won't go into all of our story, but he was very resistant to it because he had never seen it right until one of our really good friends became foster parents. And he saw it and he was like, “Wait a minute. OK, I think we can do this.” And I think the thing for so many of us, and we're seeing it in real time now as a foster family, is that foster care and the foster system at large removes ... it, like, tears down this barrier that oftentimes we create as Western Christians to keep us away from messy humanity.
And when you enter into this foster care system, whether it be as a foster parent or a social worker or supporting a foster family in some way, shape or form, you all of a sudden ... you can't look away. You can't look away from the true pain and hurt that people are really living in. And it pushes you out of this comfortable Christianity. And it sounds like that book Radical by David Platt did that for you. It pushed you out of this comfortable place.
And so I want to ask you a quick question, and then I actually have somebody on the show with us here. Her name is Madi Vincent; say “hi,” Madi.
Madi Vincent:
Hello, everyone.
Meredith Brock:
And Madi has been one of those people for me. She's not a foster mom, but she has been a huge support for me. And I want to get some of her thoughts on what it felt like in her role because not everybody can be a foster parent — but first, Jaime, I want to take you back to that moment reading Radical and feeling that nudge in your heart. Describe to me some of the barriers you felt … because I'm sure it wasn't just “hook, line and sinker, let's do this,” but there had to have been a wrestling inside of you. Give me some of that internal dialogue that you had to work through in this process.
Jamie Finn:
Yeah, there definitely was, and I think especially as a parent. I mentioned that our kids were 5 and 2, and so I think that we can use very Christianese kind of language like, “Well, it wouldn't be wise at this time. I'm called to protect my children …” and that sort of thing. I really felt fear for my kids, for my family, for our way of life, and I didn't want to welcome heartbreak and hardship into our home. I wanted to protect our kids from that.
And I think what that was answered by is believing that we are giving our kids the best when we allow things that are done for Jesus, that bring about hardship that's done for Jesus. We know that suffering for Jesus produces perseverance, character and hope, and those are the things we want for our kids. And so the wrestling was met by, Oh, but what do I actually want for my children? Do I just want them to be happy and healthy, or do I want them to live on fire, on mission, for Jesus? Do I want them to love others deeply and give their lives for others? And so there were so many things that came up in my heart that were met with, OK, but what does the Bible say about this? And that's what was so beneficial about my husband and I going to God's Word together.
Meredith Brock:
That's so good. I wrestled with the same thing. I would honestly … If I'm being fully transparent, I wrestle with it today.
Jamie Finn:
Sure. Right.
Meredith Brock:
Because there is an impact. There is no getting around the fact that there has been and will continue to be an impact on my biological children —
Jamie Finn:
That's right.
Meredith Brock:
— because of the choice we made as parents to enter into the foster care world. But I can say firsthand that I am watching my children learn how to run to Jesus.
Jamie Finn:
That's good.
Meredith Brock:
And not me.
Jamie Finn:
Right.
Meredith Brock:
Because I don't have all the answers to help them wrestle through some of the questions that naturally come up and struggles that naturally come up because of this world we've entered into. So I want to pitch a question to my friend Madi over here. She's with us. Madi works at Proverbs 31, but like I alluded to, she has also played a big role in my family's life as we entered into foster care. When we first started the process of doing foster care, Madi was a single lady, but now she's an engaged lady about to be married. And Madi, I would just love … So you've got two foster moms on here, but we have somebody else on this show who's not a foster mom, and [we’d love to hear] what it's been like for you to enter into the foster world and give us some of your thoughts on all of this.
Madi Vincent:
Yeah. I think that watching Meredith and her family walk into foster care and take their first placement and seeing it all kind of unfold was eye-opening for me because I had never experienced foster care. I didn't know what it looked like.
Something Meredith said once that really stuck with me is that a lot of people think what she and her family are doing with foster care is “cute.” They think it's really awesome that they've opened their home, but they don't kind of see behind the scenes of what it actually does. And so I just have a different set of eyes and respect for parents that do this because I know it's not easy. It can be complicated. It can be hard. And I think just on a practical level, being available to pick Meredith's kids up from school when they have court dates is something I can do to be part of this call to care for orphans’ and widows’ and children’s needs. Even when I can't open my home yet because I have roommates and I'm not ready to be a foster mom, I think practically just being able to pick her kids up from school when she has a court date has been something that I feel like is something that I can do and be part of this mission of foster care.
Being there to babysit or just even be around her kids and her foster placements and have enough understanding to know how it works and have grace and compassion when maybe [the] behavior isn't what you would expect from somebody ... And I just think that there's so much that you can do to support foster parents in ways of just praying for them and saying, "Hey, I know that a lot of people maybe don't get it, but I'm trying to, and I support you, and I think that this is really awesome."
But Jamie, I do have a question for you. I am getting married in a couple of months, and my fiancé and I have talked a little bit about foster care and what that would look like for us to open our home eventually. But when you started having those initial conversations with your husband, what did they look like and how did you shape them? How did you even approach them? I think [that’s] what I'm getting at.
Jamie Finn:
Sure. Well, first of all, I just want to say, Madi, thank you for the way that you have jumped into Meredith and Mac's story and their family. It is so meaningful. And as Meredith hinted at the beginning, a lot of people are going to listen to this and never become a foster parent. And that is OK, and that is good. What I pray that this time together does is it opens people's hearts up to why this mission is important so that they look for a way to enter it. And for a lot of people, it is going to be exactly what you just said: picking up kids, babysitting, being a shoulder to cry on. And so I hope that everyone who listens can envision this mission and how they can play a part in it. So, Madi, what you're doing is important. As a foster parent, I can tell you having someone like you in our lives is so sweet. So thanks for the love that you've shown for Meredith and her family.
Meredith Brock:
Yes. I'm going to just go ahead and jump in there and say yes, yes, yes. Oh my gosh. We couldn't have done it without her.
Jamie Finn:
It's such a gift. So now to answer your question … I could win an argument. I am capable of that. I can lawyer my points, and I can convince my husband to do something, but something like foster care — man, no one is winning if that's how it happens. Because it is so life consuming, trajectory altering, heartbreaking, that you need your partner. If you have a partner, you need to be on the same page. It cannot be that one of you has a heart for the mission and one is resisting or resenting. And so I didn't want to just convince my husband; I didn't want to come with all the points and say, “This is why, and here are the pictures and here are the sad stories, and this is why we need to do this.” I wanted the Holy Spirit to speak to him. I wanted God's Word to be illuminated to him and open his heart up. So when the questions and oppositional sort of arguments came from both of our hearts, it wasn't like, “OK, what's the answer to this?” It was, “What does God's Word say about this?”
So the sacrifices … Man, when you see that this world is passing away, then it really gives light to the things that you're going to give up when you recognize that it's all passing away. When your heart says, Oh, but my kids might not be OK ... and then you remember that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, and you remember that He uses everything to make us into who He wants us to be, that just changes the arguments. [It goes] from “What's the answer to this on earth? How can we get ourselves to the right place?” to “What does God's Word say?” So when my husband came with arguments, with fears, with questions, it was, “OK, what scripture speaks to this?”
And he really felt compelled by God's Word. “OK, we are called to do something,” [he said,] “and you feel convinced this is the something. And I feel convinced that God has us, that if we follow Him in obedience, He will have us.” And that has proven true. That has been what he's experienced. And I love my husband … but if you say, “When did you know you wanted to be a foster parent?” then he's like, "I still don't want to be a foster parent.” There's no part of this that is fun, happy. It's not about what we want. It's about using our lives for the good of others and the glory of Jesus and opening our home to this because it's our mission as a family.
Madi Vincent:
That is so good. And that verse that you quoted from Romans, that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him … I think a misconception that we sometimes have is that good equals ease, but it doesn't. Sometimes the things that are good, and the things that are going to shape our story and shape our lives to become the very best version and the closest to Jesus that we could be, are going to be the hardest things that we ever go through. So I just love that you quoted that verse, and I wanted to clarify because it doesn't mean ease — it just means that there's a promise that good will come out of it. And we might not even really understand the full picture of that, but God does. And it's a promise that we can hold on to and cling to.
Meredith Brock:
That is right. Gosh, I could seriously talk about this all day long. Jamie, I wish we had hours on hours on hours. I do want to tell our listeners a couple of resources that I think would be really helpful, and then I'm going to ask you how they can connect with you, Jamie. But one, Jamie did write a book, y'all. And when I started out on this whole journey and found her online through another foster mom, and she said she was going to release a book, Jamie didn't know this, but I went out and preordered that book. I was waiting for it to land on my doorstep because I was like, I need a lifeline here. And so if there happen to be foster moms or foster families or people who are starting the licensing process and you are looking for a gospel-centered resource around the mission of foster care, you need to run and go get the book.
It's called Foster the Family. You can get it on Amazon. It really helped me process this mission in a gospel-centered way that was so helpful. Also, big, huge plug for Jamie: She also hosts a conference for foster moms that is legit. I was in the middle of getting ready to give up the whole thing because it was just hard — we were in a hard season as a family — and I went to the conference two years ago. It's called Filled Conference, and it helped me stay, hang on, and helped me build into a community of other families who are doing this together. So if you happen to be a foster mom or considering this, I would say, man, jump in to either one of those resources. But, Jamie, how else can our listeners connect with you if this is a way that the Lord is grabbing their heart?
Jamie Finn:
Meredith, that's so encouraging. Thanks for your kind words. I'm so grateful. I love to share about our family, about the things that we're learning and struggling through online — on Instagram @FostertheFamilyBlog, Facebook the same, and the blog is fosterthefamilyblog.com.
Meredith Brock:
Great. And I will just give a plug for that. Not only does Jamie give really practical advice on foster care, but if you just need to look at really cute children, holy moly. Oh my goodness. I don't know how you scored that lineup, Jamie, but they're just delightful and so cute. And I look forward to seeing your adorable children online.
Jamie Finn:
Oh, thank you.
Meredith Brock:
Good. Really fun follow and informative at the same time. So, listeners, I do want to point you to one other resource here at Proverbs 31. Maybe you are wrestling with the moment right now. Maybe the Lord is grabbing hold of your heart and you're wondering, Oh my gosh, God, are you calling me to step out in faith? Well, we have a resource here at Proverbs 31 called “A Guide to Stepping Out in Faith,” available totally for free. And if you're wrestling through these questions — Should I say “yes” to this foster care journey? Or how should I say “yes” to this foster care journey? — we would encourage you to go download that on our site.
Madi Vincent:
And yeah, friends, don't forget to check out the other podcasts available to listen to on The Proverbs 31 Ministries Podcast Network. Listen to the latest season of Therapy & Theology with Lysa TerKeurst and receive biblical insight and therapeutic wisdom for navigating tough relationships in your life. And check out our Encouragement for Today Podcast to listen to a short devotion each week while you're getting ready for the day.
Meredith Brock:
Well, that's it for today, friends. At Proverbs 31 Ministries, we believe that when you know the Truth and you live the Truth, it really will change everything.