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The Try Tank Podcast is about innovation and the church
Lorenzo (00:01)
Dan and Jesse, welcome to the Tri-Tank Podcast.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (00:05)
Yay, yay, it's good to be here.
Dan Kline (he/him) (00:06)
Yeah!
Lorenzo (00:07)
There we go. Now we should add like the clap of applause of a crowd as you're saying, yay, yay, right? ⁓ I have wanted to have you on the podcast for a little while now because, well, one, I continue to get the emails from what's going on at St. Paul's and I just continue to see such wonderful things going out of there. I'm a proud, you know, it's still my home church and my diocese.
Dan Kline (he/him) (00:16)
Totally.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (00:33)
Mm-hmm.
Lorenzo (00:34)
So I am proud that I'm there, even though I haven't been there in a year, but nonetheless, I'm still a proud member. I am still a proud pleasure and I'm still proud of it, of all the work that's going on. But the main reason ⁓ why I wanted to bring you on is because so many people keep reading that the church is declining, that the church is ending, that everything is awful for the church. And a lot of people, you see it often enough, it starts to become a reality. Yet...
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (00:36)
and
Yes, you are.
Thank
Thank
Mm-hmm.
Lorenzo (01:03)
the reality at St. Paul's in the desert, I don't think is a mirage. I think it see what I did there desert mirage and Oasis. I'll be here all day. Thank you very much. I think what you all are doing though is fantastic. Just can you for just a moment tell our listeners sort of like some of the numeric growth that you have seen in the last few years because it has been sort of like just ongoing and relentless the growth.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (01:09)
Hey, ⁓
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Go for it.
Dan Kline (he/him) (01:30)
Yeah,
so when we arrived, the church had dropped quite a bit ⁓ because of a pandemic. You know, I think, what was it, churches, what did they drop? Two thirds, Lorenzo, a third, something like that.
Lorenzo (01:42)
Yeah, a
third drop that would never come back, they said, yeah.
Dan Kline (he/him) (01:46)
Right, right.
And then ⁓ we followed a 30 year rector. So anytime there's a rector transition, attendance drops too. So we had both of those kind of marks against us. So when we were hired, neither of us was full time. It was kind of crazy. mean, if you added all those numbers, none of it should have worked. But there was about 150 people attending in person, one service.
And as of ⁓ this year, we're at about 300 people attending on a Sunday morning with three services. So it's like double the growth rate ⁓ in terms of attendance, ⁓ in terms of our budget. We've ⁓ doubled our budget. We've tripled our pledging. ⁓ It's kind of wild, you know, and those are like the quantitative metrics. There's a lot of qualitative stuff right beyond that, but that's, that's the easiest stuff to.
to kind of look at.
Lorenzo (02:47)
Which is impressive. mean, any church that would tell you, yeah, we got here and we were kind of at a small point of where we were. We were a really low point. We had about 150 people and all of sudden, you know, and how many years has it been? I was thinking about this earlier. Almost five years. And look at where you're at now. You're you're.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (03:02)
In October it'll be five. Yeah.
Lorenzo (03:09)
three services, 300 some plus people, which means of course more members. And a lot of them, I would imagine that when you have come around Christmas when people are back in town to Palm Springs or around Easter, right? When the people who are snowbirds are back in our, those numbers are probably you're like, we're just growing outside of, you we don't even know where to put people.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (03:29)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Dan Kline (he/him) (03:31)
So
we had ⁓ the reason we moved to three services, like there were two services before the pandemic. they went, there was no services for a while, right? It was all live stream, which you helped set up and you got them all going and they got the great live stream equipment. So thank you for laying that foundation. then.
Lorenzo (03:43)
I did.
I did the reason why we got the equipment is
because one time I don't know that you know this. I did a whole service while muted. So there we go. The problem when people put it back to you, it's like, oh man.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (03:59)
Yeah.
Dan Kline (he/him) (04:00)
Right.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (04:04)
They're really contemplative today. Wait, nope, nope. It's just... We're all muted. Yeah.
Lorenzo (04:06)
I know, right?
Dan Kline (he/him) (04:09)
But it was, so there was one, so we started with one service and then ⁓ built it back up to two. There was previously a Saturday night service and that basically gave people flexibility. It wasn't well attended. So we decided to do a Wednesday evening service instead of bringing back a Saturday. And what that ended up doing was it provided some.
It became a second service for people who were serving on Sunday to get fed spiritually during the week So that was a different role than just giving flexibility and then ⁓ our second service in particular on Sundays was getting so full the parking lot was getting jammed and We're we're in an older demographic here So wasn't like you can fit four kids and you know an SUV and take up one spot You know the parking lot filled up with a lot of singles and couples
Lorenzo (04:58)
⁓ yeah.
Dan Kline (he/him) (05:02)
So we said, we've got to go to the third service and our vestry was pretty hesitant about it. They were a little nervous and we did a lot of, know, basically for two years, we kind of prepped them for it through a lot of informal conversations. And then this year we decided in season, cause we're seasonal because we're a resort community to go to that three service model. And it took off, you know, we added about 45 people, the parking lot issues alleviated.
And what I like try to liken it to is people are like, well, aren't you more tired? Isn't it more work? It's kind of like a kid who outgrows their shoe size, right? If their shoe size is a size nine, but they're still in a size six, it's going to hurt because there's not enough room. But then you go to that bigger size and it actually makes things easier. The staff, you know, our staff were, they were able to, and volunteers, everybody was able to alleviate it. So that's kind of.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (05:48)
Thank
Dan Kline (he/him) (06:01)
Those are some of the numbers and stuff, is fun, but the really exciting work, think, is the spiritual growth that's been going on, you know?
Lorenzo (06:09)
Yeah, and let's talk a little bit. just want to point out, the way, in the literature about church growth, it says that when you're at about 80 % capacity is when you should start thinking about the next service, because you're absolutely right. Nobody wants to show up and there'll be no room for them. And then it's all crowded. You can't find parking. It's like, ah, it's not worth it. All that effort. But I also want to make sure that we make a distinction. You say you have three services, but that's just on Sunday. The Wednesday service, if you will, would be your fourth service.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (06:34)
is a fourth. Yeah.
Yeah. Yes.
Lorenzo (06:36)
which is more
Dan Kline (he/him) (06:37)
Yes.
Lorenzo (06:37)
of a floating option for someone who may not be able to come on Sunday. It is a distinctly different service. It's shorter. There's no music. It's more contemplative. I've been to it. I've led it. It's beautiful, you know, on Wednesdays. But yeah, let's talk about the spirituality. And I also want to talk a little bit about because I think from the moment you all got there, and I wanted to talk a little bit about that also, how you did the listening parties and then you did some more listening a few years after that, right?
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (06:49)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lorenzo (07:06)
You
all, I've always been impressed, mainly because this is a skill I do not possess, to be patient with the congregation and say, we know where we want to take them. Now comes the effort of how do we make that change happen so methodically and involved with others, right? You just said, we prepped them for two years.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (07:19)
Mm-hmm.
Lorenzo (07:31)
I don't think anybody would write that on my tombstone or any biography of Lorenzo. Like, he worked on something for two years before he happens. Like, no, no, no, I'm like, let's do it next week. Right. And I want to talk about what it takes for you to be able to have a but before that, let's talk a little bit about the spiritual because I have noticed and these are things that I guess you have to be a church nerd like I am right to notice. Right.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (07:38)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Lorenzo (07:55)
the
reverence that you all do to the altar, which might be considered a little bit more high altar, but yet I know resonated with the congregation in Palm Springs. I know that they liked it. But because I think that's just an outward sign, right, of the spirituality that you're doing inside, which is we're here to worship Jesus and let's do that. But I want to hear, let's hear from you all. Jesse, how would you describe where the spirituality was when you all got there five years ago?
What you saw as your vision and where you are towards that vision now.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (08:30)
You've asked about like, you've given me like five to 10 on ramps and I'm here for it. Can I go back and really quick say, you know, the nerdy thing you said about, know, which is true, the 80 % people feel it's too full. We've talked, the two of us have talked a lot. We actually think that that's down to 70 or below since COVID because I think that there's a mental idea of things are too full quicker.
Lorenzo (08:38)
Sure.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (08:55)
there's a little sign in the, you know, that the fire marshal says that there can be like 500 and some people in that church and we're like, 500 who? Like five year olds? who's, you know, like, you know, like this last Sunday, you know, was supposed to be out of season and that second service had over 200 and some people and it felt so full. And I was like, who's the 500? So ⁓ what I would say is following a rector of 30 years, one of the great gifts that we feel is not
Lorenzo (09:02)
Exactly. Just how thin are these people?
Dan Kline (he/him) (09:03)
Hehehehehe
Lorenzo (09:13)
Exactly.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (09:23)
we know not all of our colleagues have is that we felt a call to do this together, which is a unique calling, right? We both feel called to, to priestly work, but a call to a co-rectorship, which is even different than rector associate. And the way we came in, and I will highly put a plug in to see dance, to listen to Dan's sermon on Sunday, cause it was on Trinity and it was pretty fantastic, I'm going to say.
Lorenzo (09:46)
Awesome.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (09:47)
But he really talked about, which has sort of been our vision, is we already come in as a collaborative duo. So when you visually look at the church, and I won't give your whole sermon, but you see the big corpus Christi, you see the spirit above the font, where do you see the Father? Well, you did see it with the priest in the back, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. But you see the two of us who come in there and already indicate that God is, by very God's nature, a participatory in relationship.
Right? We come in as a collaborative duo. There is, and we don't go by father and mother specifically, we go by Reverend because father is more than a particular human person. So when we came in as this collaborative duo, I think that was to the benefit of the church who really couldn't compare us to the last priest. Right? So it's one thing to go, well, father so-and-so did this, but you do this, but there's two of us and we're very different.
Lorenzo (10:25)
Mm.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (10:41)
and we got no ego in the game. We got very different skills, very different ways of approaching it. Fantastic. I think that allowed people to relax in some ways that I don't know that they could. So in terms of who they were, we also came in going, you don't stay someplace 30 years if the people aren't good. You just don't. So it's good people, right? And people who are faithful to this place, to each other, to God, and to figuring out how they were going to creatively, you know, I mean, the way that they would talk about all of you who did a lot of the interim work.
You know, they talk well about each other and people and it's church and it's funky and it's always like, know, church is a stone cold pack of weirdos. I mean, we already are, you know, and I love it because you gather and you go, when would all of us be in the same room? ⁓ And so I think in terms of the spirituality, there was a deep sense of we came in masks, right? So already the world was different than anything. So not only can you not compare us to who was there before, because we're two.
Lorenzo (11:19)
you
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (11:37)
But you can't compare church to what it is because you're not really sure what the world's still gonna unfold. We didn't know how much longer we'd be in masks. So when we came in, the first thing, we started October 1st, and we, I think three weeks later, did something that we've done every year for the last five years, something we called patio parties, called so because we couldn't gather in person. So was we're gonna meet and we're gonna sign up. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna sign up. We're gonna meet outside at somebody's house, about 15 to 20 people.
Lorenzo (11:59)
Necessity.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (12:06)
And we're just having just two hours and we had a very specific what we did, the same script at every one's. We introduced ourselves, we shared a bit about us, about what drew us to the church. We asked specific questions like, what are you hopeful for? What are you excited about? What are you afraid we're gonna do? That was like a great one, ⁓ which was just lots of hilarious stories on that one. ⁓ And ⁓ what are your visions? are your hopes, right? So then, ⁓
there's a sense of like small ways to get to know us, but to also help reflect back. We've done our homework and you all did a great job at your profile. This is how we see the church. Is this true? And they would interact with it. And so right away, so every year in the fall, even though it is nuts and the world is crazy at that time, and especially here in the desert, that's when pride is, that's convention is, we still do about six to eight patio parties every year. And every year we...
Lorenzo (13:03)
Wow.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (13:05)
⁓ We have a specific, again, it's the same, we have the same script everywhere, but we know how to do it in a way that it's not super scripty. And it's a different ⁓ focus each year. So when we got here too, after the 30 years of Erector, everybody had all the ideas, right? Cause it's like, we should do this and we should do this. And we went, we cannot do 728 things, but what is God calling all of us together right now to be about for this season? So we knew we wanted to do a strategic plan.
Lorenzo (13:27)
Hahaha
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (13:34)
And so that second year, the patio parties were about strategic plan. In particular, you know, what are we about? What's God calling us? What are our skills and gifts? What are the needs in this community? What are the needs in this parish? You know, like, I mean, we needed a new roof on the cottage and we need to figure out this parish hall and we need to make sure our finances are great so that future generations don't worry. need whatever it is, you know. ⁓
And so we utilized that at the beginning process of a strategic plan, which is its own other conversation. And then the next year it was like patio parties were like, let's share what's been going on with the strategic plan and what areas are we missing? And so I think the next year was about the parish hall, what its uses are for and what's our partnerships with others, outreach, what do we want to do with this parish hall? Cause it had seen some things and it really needed some love and it literally had no air conditioning in the desert.
It now does. I can't wait for you to come back.
Lorenzo (14:31)
I don't think that most people
understand the severity of...
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (14:35)
It
is like 107 degrees and it's June 3rd here. I am, you know, ⁓ so, but also if we, you know, I mean, it's got sound dampening panels now that you can hear each other, which is wonderful since half the church has hearing aids. Now we can actually communicate. ⁓ So, you know, and then, you know, so then each year has had a theme and we do it every year. And it's also another way for us in those small groups to share.
Lorenzo (14:39)
kicks.
Dan Kline (he/him) (14:41)
You
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (15:02)
all the little things you might see in the newsletter, you might see on social media these things, but there's a lot that's happening and how do we help people stay connected to each other? So I think ⁓ those listening pieces, I think you're right. I love that you said patience ⁓ could be, you know, I just appreciate it because that's one of my visual tattoos is about patience because I don't think I had any, thank you for affirming the spirits moving. But ⁓ I think the second piece besides the listening,
Lorenzo (15:25)
you
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (15:32)
in terms of spirituality is a charism of this place again, not every place but you know this, is that if you throw a quarter in any direction, you will hit five to 10 retired clergy and not just Episcopal clergy. We've got Roman Catholics, we've got Congregationalists, we've got a Presbyterian, we've got, ⁓ and so one of the great things is all these retired folks who are brilliant, compassionate humans who have studied different things and are
excited to teach because they don't have to go to the finance committee or whatever else they think we do as directors. So we immediately sort of said, let's begin a robust spiritual formation. mean, you have all these retired people who, and this is, we talk about California retired versus like East Coast retired. I don't know what it is, but people here are like 80 and they look like they're 52. You know what I mean? It's like they're, this isn't, they've preserved.
Lorenzo (16:24)
It's that sun that keeps you, you know, excited.
Dan Kline (he/him) (16:28)
Preserved,
well preserved.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (16:30)
Nobody's
sitting on their rocking chair until the end of days, mostly because it's 107, but also they're interested and they're excited about learning. They maybe didn't get to in their careers. so having a variety of classes, I think this last year we had 29 classes and retreats, which is nuts. That's nuts. So we have them submit proposals about what they want to teach and we fit it into the liturgical year in all different times so people can come or
Lorenzo (16:33)
Yeah.
Hahaha.
Whoa. Yeah. Yeah.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (17:00)
They don't drive at night or between the services. And so there's really not an excuse. We have a Buddhist neighbor next door. teaches the meditation and psychology class. We've got a rabbi, Dan, and the rabbi do a class every quarter on, I call it Two Dudes in a Podcast, because it's a priest and a rabbi talking about a book. ⁓ So I think letting people know that who we are as people of faith is that we are listening and we are learning.
as well as serving, right? So that's the other piece, but I've talked a lot.
Lorenzo (17:31)
Yeah.
No, no, no, that's great. I do, you you do have a benefit in having ⁓ so many people that can offer classes. I was thinking about it when you were saying it, 20 something that that that's like, that might be more than the local community college offering, you know, courses for people that you are basically. And what I love about that is that genuinely most people in your congregation can find something amongst those selections that they're going to like.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (17:49)
Yeah, it's nuts.
Yeah.
Lorenzo (18:02)
That they're gonna
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (18:02)
Yeah.
Lorenzo (18:03)
enjoy it's like well, I'm more Buddhist. Well, guess what? We have a class on that. No, I'm more orthodox Well, guess what? We have a class on that, you know ⁓ I'm more like I want to hear about I saw that you guys had one on Desire and God you have you have so many like even some provocative topics that are out there. I'm curious Imagine if you will and then I'll do this question for you if you were sort of
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (18:06)
Right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yep.
Lorenzo (18:28)
If you were advising ⁓ someone who's in a small congregation who may not have access to as many retired clergy, but just in general, for all the things that you've done from the listening parties, I love because they're outward focused, they're listening, you're listening to people who are in the community who theoretically will tell you what are the needs of the community, especially when you were new. I actually, did not know that you did it every year. That's a brilliant thing, actually, if you think about it.
So Dan, what would you suggest to like a small congregation leader? How could they take what you've learned? Because I don't think you, we did a good enough job of when you both came in, you were not full time because I remember specifically the bishop saying the congregation doesn't have the money to hire two priests, right? This is, so not only had the numbers falling, as you mentioned, the giving had fallen over years. And then of course there was the precipitous drop from COVID.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (19:14)
Yeah. Yeah.
answers.
Lorenzo (19:25)
that just made it even just that much more difficult. had dumb priests trying to do services with mute on, you know, so that wasn't helping really the cause. And yet you came in and you were just focused on God. You were just like, we're gonna focus on God, we're gonna focus on spirituality and God will take care of it. I just sensed that there was this belief in that, how would you tell someone, listen, we've been in the bad part. Whether it was one or two of us,
We've been in that where you don't know how it's gonna work at the other end of this. We're starting the year with a deficit, but we'll figure it out along the way. What would you say to someone that's trying to do that?
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (19:53)
Thank
Dan Kline (he/him) (20:05)
I think the patience is a real big, that's a good like keyword and virtue. You see that in scripture, keep sowing, because in due time you'll receive a harvest. ⁓ sometimes there are toxic parishes, you gotta get out, or maybe you thought it was the right place and maybe you need to get out. But I think one of the beauties of our tradition is, rectors are tenured. And so if you can have this like long vision,
put down roots and really try to invest in a community, you can see some things happen. I think that's applicable, whatever the size. I think the other thing is you've gotta be able to see where your parish actually wants to go. There's aspirational values and live values. And in order to go from a family-sized church or a pastoral-sized church.
to a program size church, there's a lot of changes in the culture of the parish. And that can be really jarring. So for us, we were very strategic. We were down to a family size parish when it previously had been a pastoral size. So we said, we need this Wednesday night so that the key leaders still feel this family, still feel this connection while the change is happening, right? So that's like some technical savvy stuff.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (21:29)
and
Dan Kline (he/him) (21:32)
But I think ⁓ the other thing that's a.
Lorenzo (21:34)
Well, actually on that for just
a second, because it's important to note you didn't just do the service on Wednesday night. Going to the being strategic part, you said all meetings should be on Wednesday night at the parish as well. Right. All the groups that are meeting should be on Wednesday night because that encourages people come in early, do the service where your family together. And then you go and do your meetings about, you know, the Stewardship Committee or the Parish Hall Committee or whatever it might be.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (21:56)
Thank you.
Lorenzo (22:00)
But it all began with that moment, as you said, allowing them to be closer to each other and to be family.
Dan Kline (he/him) (22:06)
Yeah, and it's hard to argue after you've just done Eucharist together, you know, it's like, you know, I think, but having that spiritual grounding and you know, it's, you can't force everybody to do it. We try the best we can. Some people they'll just show up to the meeting and you know, but if you get enough people doing that and that really grounds you while you do some of the, you know, the nuts and bolts stuff that's still spiritual, but doesn't feel as spiritual, right? Like how do we, how do we fix the roof? How do we do all that stuff? And I think,
Lorenzo (22:08)
This is true. This is very true.
Dan Kline (he/him) (22:35)
I think the other thing is doing like the resource mapping, like asset mapping, like what are your strengths and weaknesses? So we knew we had a lot of retired clergy. So we said, we really could lean into spiritual formation. ⁓ You might be in another community where you have a lot of social workers or you have a lot of people that are really good with your hands. So what do you lean into? Our strongest ⁓ vestry committee, because we organized our vestry around a bunch of committees and
The vestry basically, you know, was kind of like a rubber stamp vestry or one or two people kind of leading the whole thing. And we said, no, this needs to be the committee work needs to happen. And then the vestry is just making the decisions based on the committee's work. We're like Palm Springs has more HOAs than anywhere else. So let's make the camp. Let's make the property committee. We know that's a strength. So let's like really, really shore that one up. And it's easier to create a new culture.
Lorenzo (23:26)
Yeah.
Dan Kline (he/him) (23:32)
to create a new ministry or committee than to try to change an old one. So if you're trying to change a culture, start something new with leaders that you trust, leaders you can mentor. And then once that gets some successes and you're building wins, then the other committees that are maybe weaker or more resistant to change, they're like, whoa, that committee's really doing good or that ministry is really thriving. Maybe I'll be open to some change and then you can start kind of changing some of those things.
So being realistic about what resources you have and then the general spiritual principle of abundance. And I'm not talking prosperity. I come from a Pentecostal background. I'm really nervous about prosperity preaching and that sort of thing. But this idea of is the cup half empty or the cup half full? Are we dying or, know, Thomas, right, the doubter? Jesus is like, we're going to Jerusalem.
And Thomas is like, well, let's go with him. We might as well die with him. We're going to die either way, right? And I think that kind of brave, audacious faith, that idea of, you know, we're already going to lose anyway. Let's just go all in. Let's just like work as hard as we can and trust God to show up. I think that kind of abundance and believing that there is enough resources to do what God is calling us to do. may not come in the way we think or look like what we think.
but trying to cultivate that kind of mentality. Because I think there is a scarcity mentality here. Let's circle the wagons, you know? Anytime someone would die and leave any money, let's use it to like burn through the budget instead of like putting it away and being like, God will provide our needs for the year. And that took a lot of faith. But you know, over time, you just start growing. I think, but it's hard. mean, there's a lot of unique factors here. Most people,
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (24:57)
Mm.
Dan Kline (he/him) (25:26)
who live in Palm Springs are not from Palm Springs. So they've moved somewhere else. So they already have a certain adaptive change resilience that may not be true in other places. ⁓ know, Jesse likes to say like the altar guild, you know, has always had the candles here and God forbid you ever move them. Here we came after COVID and people were like, we don't even remember where they were. So they gave us, you know, like a blank slate. I think ⁓ the other thing that's really unique is it's a predominantly LGBTQ community.
Lorenzo (25:48)
you
Dan Kline (he/him) (25:56)
And so there's a gift from the queer community about being able to think outside the box and not being confined to kind of maybe the stereotypical ways of being church. So that allowed for a lot of innovation to happen. but again, it's looking at your context and being able to say, are the gifts that God has given to this context? And then you can map out what's realistic from there and shoot for the stars, you know.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (26:22)
Can I add something to that? That I think is the two things that I think, ⁓ well, let me say again, so whatever church context we talk about, we do a lot of training in our committees about church sizes. So the different church size, family, pastor, da, da, And we reiterate, there is no one size, ⁓ a large church is not better than a small church, right? That the kingdom of God needs us all, right?
Lorenzo (26:24)
Please.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (26:51)
⁓ But the two things I think that our practices that we do, and I've done this for 20 some years in every ministry context, is when we begin, especially when we begin vestry, we're now, our vestry members do a little welcome at the beginning of services. And for a while they would talk about, ⁓ strategic plan, and here's the part we're doing. But now, we ask this question, where do you see the Spirit of God?
working lately at St. Paul's. Where have you seen God's Spirit lately? Because one of the things is Episcopalians, are so afraid, well, we are afraid to say anything because we don't, we're afraid to say it if we only say the words in the book. How do I develop spiritual language if I don't get opportunities to practice? And so we go around Vestry, where have you seen the Spirit moving at St. Paul's since the last month that we've met as Vestry? So I've seen it this way, I've seen it this way. And it is so amazing.
Lorenzo (27:24)
Testimony? Witnessing?
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (27:48)
And it allows us to start this meeting and go, like God is already moving. How are we gonna participate? So that's easy. It doesn't matter what size. And we do that in small groups. do it all the other thing that we do in every meeting. And we even do this when I'm doing like pastoral meetings with someone. It doesn't matter. Vestry. We do it at the end of annual meeting. But is at the end of whatever meeting we all stand if able because we've been sitting too long.
and we go around and we say, each person is saying, today, God, I'm thankful for, or today, God, I'm grateful for. And while you could thank God for a thousand billion things, specifically, what about this last hour in this meeting are you thankful for? Which pedagogically makes sense, because then you're hearing what they learned or are taking, and it is so freaking beautiful. It makes me cry almost every time, because you could have the most ridiculous, you know, IT meeting about blah-de-blah-de-blah, and then they're like so thankful that
this part came in and so and so volunteered their time and they just turned to gratitude. And so that's been our basic thing is, is if you continue to turn your hearts towards gratitude, you walk in already noticing like, where's the spirit moving and already how do I participate in it? And you notice each other. And I do believe that those two things are like the glue to why everything, it doesn't matter if like,
everything falls apart and the whole place burns down, these will still be people who are noticing where the spirit is and being grateful for what it means to be together. And I could not be more proud of them and I love them. I mean, I genuinely think we gather and it's it's wild. We do it when we meet with newcomers. We do it when we're at finance committee, you know, and it is mind blowing. I will never not do it if that's the double negative. Yeah.
Lorenzo (29:35)
And I
think that speaks to the spirituality also that you've created in their place right it is those small intentional things that are bringing people to because that carries ⁓ right if you're if I'm hearing others mention how God is moving in their lives and and then or I may have mentioned hug then you just become more aware of how God is moving in your life in general, right? It just becomes this I'm constantly looking out for where God
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (29:40)
Thank
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Lorenzo (30:05)
and how God might be moving in my life. Did you come with those or were these sort of, you did, you used to do this in your prior congregations? Okay.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (30:12)
Yes. Yes.
I've done it in every church context
and when I taught at a university, I did that at the end of classes. And we actually, we go around and say, today God, I'm thankful, today God. And then one of us usually starts it and then we will say, gathering all of the things we're grateful for and all the things that weigh on our hearts, we together pray the prayer that Jesus taught us and then we all say the Lord's Prayer. So that's the other thing is it's helping also say together we end praying.
Lorenzo (30:37)
Let's go.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (30:41)
And every single and then you're already standing. So the good thing is that then you head to the door. You don't have to linger around for you. Thanks for coming.
Lorenzo (30:47)
That's right. So
here's a question then, as you all came in and you said, we've read your profile, we've seen this thing. Right. But you began right with the I call them listening parties, the patio parties. ⁓ What surprised you versus what you thought compared to the reality? Was there something in the context that you were like, whoa, that is vastly different than what we thought it was going to be like?
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (31:02)
Yeah.
Lorenzo (31:16)
In good way or in a bad way or we just have to adapt to that. Was it what was the thing that? Shocks you
Dan Kline (he/him) (31:24)
think the biggest thing for me, because we had done our homework, we had done a lot of work, and they had done their homework. I think the two biggest factors were, so my previous parish had been doing interim work. So I came in a little judgy in that way where I was like, there's all this interim work that was left undone. Or, whoa, like our phone system is from 1980. How has it not been updated? Just things like that, right?
Lorenzo (31:48)
you
Dan Kline (he/him) (31:51)
I think we got into the kitchen that was shared with a community partner and there was a cockroach infestation. So I think those sorts of challenges were surprising. I think what was surprising but probably shouldn't have been was a lot of the numbers in the profile were from pre-pandemics. Then we got here and we're like, ⁓ my goodness, this is even worse than what we thought. Okay.
God's called us here, that's why that call's really important, to dig deep into that and kind of move from there. So there were some shocking things in that way. But one thing that didn't shock us was we knew there weren't gonna be a lot of children. And we did a demographic study within a 15 minute drive of St. Paul's. if we were reaching families with children at the same rate we're reaching everybody else in our community, we'd have maybe 15 families with kids, which is a lot.
But I'm like, so that's the demographics. So we don't need to lean into that, which we're growing and we don't have kids. So that's why the asset mapping is really important. You may be in a community that has a ton of kids and that could be the vehicle to your growth. That wasn't the vehicle of growth for us. For us, was folks that are moving here that have, know, some who saved their whole lives just to be able to afford to live in a really, really small condo or trailer.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (33:00)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Dan Kline (he/him) (33:18)
others ⁓ who have multiple houses in multiple states, But all who have this deep spiritual hunger, they're retired and have the time to actually go deep. So how do we tap into that, right? They have the time to actually take some of these classes. They have the time to try and serve and outreach and that sort of thing. So that became kind of the key to look at.
Lorenzo (33:45)
Jesse, did something surprise you as you were looking at it that you were like, woo, what's not expecting that?
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (33:48)
Well...
I think, well, I'll say I was delightfully surprised when they brought us out to interview because the questions they asked were really thoughtful. They were not surface level. And I still remember one person who we've had many conversations since. I think they're very dare human. And they made the comment about, ⁓ they said, so you know, this is predominant in LGBTQ community of a certain age and you all are of a different generation.
And in our generation, we had to parse out our lives and separate things. But in your generation, it's acceptable. So where do you sort of shake with that? And I said, whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't come from a... I came from a very conservative background, so I probably relate more to your generation than you think. ⁓ But so when we first came on, and this person also, after I think we'd been here, what, like a month, cornered me after service and said, you...
Lorenzo (34:35)
Ha ha ha.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (34:45)
You know, we've always known we're welcome here, but you actually preach about us and you also make some hilarious jokes that we love too. So I'm keep it up and then kind of walked off. So it was like, okay, I've passed the generation. ⁓ One thing I would think is surprising is so in other ministry context with a wider spectrum of generations coming, there might be ⁓ some downtime when people are at work. That is not the case here. They are retired.
Lorenzo (35:13)
if we can.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (35:14)
and they get up very early because the California sun and they stay up really late. so helping folks boundary that you can't call or text me at four in the morning or 11 at night or during the day, like you, gotta give me, you gotta give me. So I think that's been the surprise is ⁓ at, you know, at any, yeah, no, no, no. I'm, I'm merely saying the surprise of like, wow, people are
Lorenzo (35:31)
Thank
Dan Kline (he/him) (35:35)
Unless they're in the hospital, right? You know, it's...
Lorenzo (35:37)
Then it's okay.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (35:42)
They're up all the time. They're game for it. They're ready to get involved. They're excited. So it's not that I'm like, please don't talk. They're excited about things, but helping them turn to each other and channel that energy into normal business hours for the most part. But I think, and I think the other thing too, I would say again, cause I've been in other places, so I know this is not true, but. ⁓
The sense that because people are coming from not just other parts of the country, but they're coming from other faith traditions, we get a lot of people from other, as I mentioned, not just retired clergy, but you know, people who have moved to say it moved to the desert and they're looking for a faith community. They may or may not have any Episcopal background, but they tiptoe in and they find themselves to be welcomed. And we've set up an intentional like welcome team and welcome, you know, so, ⁓
they end up making this their home and there isn't a sense, mean, you started to, you said this earlier, Dan, but we've always done it this way. So help me God, we'll do this this way. And so there's kind of this gift of, it's not just patience and adaptability, but it's the sense of like, even with the third service, we're like, we did all the research, we did forums, we did, you know, we sent out a 75 page missile on it, you know, it was like,
One of us wrote it and it wasn't me. But anyways, different gifts. It was very much, very much, probably actually longer than one. And yet we framed it in a way that this is a grand experiment and we together get to do this thing. And we together get to listen to how the spirit's moving and we together get to go, like, is this something we might do again? I don't know. We're listening together.
Lorenzo (37:10)
It was an encyclical written by Dan.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (37:35)
And so I think the ability for folks to feel that they're participants in it. And it's kind of like, again, moving back to the original conversation that I started about, know, father knows best versus collaborative. Part of our strategic plan, there's like seven objectives. The middle, the fourth objective is to empower the laity. And that is how to like pivot everything. So the ways that we're empowering more lay leaders.
and more laity to participate. It's not just father knows best at the front telling you, you say the words and then you leave. What does it mean for us to together know that the spirit is gonna be amongst us and is amongst us and is speaking to us and how do we listen together? And how do we do, we've done some things and we all go, well, we don't have to do that again. Well, that was a bust or whatever it was, you know. It doesn't like we do it once and so help me, we now always have to do it. And I think people know that we genuinely want to do that. We don't wanna.
Lorenzo (38:21)
you
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (38:32)
set something because we've done it once, you know. Sometimes we do stuff when we all kind of go collectively like, whoa, that worked. How'd that happen? Okay, must be the spirit. Should we try it again? You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think that's the vitality of faith, right? That it's not rote, it's not boring. We get to try an experiment. We get to also be open to some of our experiments. Spirit's with us.
Lorenzo (38:40)
Can we even replicate that? Did someone take notes?
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (38:58)
but maybe it's not the right timing or the right thing. We've explored a lot of different outreach and ministries with people who have interests and we've come to a conclusion that that's not what we're gonna do. But it's helped us get closer to what we are. And I think being able to say in real community, there has to be some room for us to be a little bit messy and us to like try some things. mean, know, try a tank, know, try it out. And then, yeah, yeah.
Lorenzo (39:19)
I was like, she is talking my language. I'm going to have to pay her.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (39:24)
And then,
but I think it's true. And I think, again, the cool thing is, is when you get to do it together, then when something, when you participate with spirit and it's the right time and the right things, and you're like, holy, like, my gosh, we both saw that, right? You we both. And I think that's the like, like magnifying of like, I think that's actually life above it. Cause I think that's when you get to go like, it's one thing for me to experience like the love of God. It's another that we like, it gets magnified between us. Cause we both were part of this thing. And it's like, how cool is that?
Lorenzo (39:37)
you feel that? Yeah.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (39:53)
you know, that we get to be a part of it.
Lorenzo (39:55)
And I'm glad that you mentioned that your fourth point, which was empowering the lady, because I was going to ask you about it. It's obvious that with so many things going on, so many programs, so many services, so many, and I've heard you say volunteers doing this. It's obvious that you were invited so many others to join you in this work, and including from the beginning as to what should be our vision, right, with the patio parties. I'm curious.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (40:13)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lorenzo (40:22)
Have you had because most people when they think about leadership and they talk about lay leadership They're like there must be a program where we can train them How do we train them to do this where it seems like you all just is like come help us do the work you just sort of did the the sort of Jesus Method is like come follow us, you know do this or do that. How what would you say is? The thing that you did or that someone could do intentionally
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (40:38)
Mm-hmm.
Lorenzo (40:47)
to bring about their late leaders involved. What would be the one thing that you would say? Start doing this. Even if you've been there for a few years, this is how you can get more late people to join you in the vision that you have.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (41:01)
You want to go, want me to.
Dan Kline (he/him) (41:04)
I've got a couple ideas, but what are you thinking?
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (41:06)
You go, go for it. Go for it.
Lorenzo (41:06)
Thank
People, just want to let you know they're in different rooms. So even though they're married and they're actually at the same time wondering who should answer this one. So for our listeners.
Dan Kline (he/him) (41:09)
That's it again. ⁓
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (41:16)
Yeah, after you. After
Dan Kline (he/him) (41:18)
It's the best. It's the best. It's the best working
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (41:18)
you. Yeah.
Dan Kline (he/him) (41:21)
together being called to this as correctors. I think, so I, I'm going to, I'm going to sound like the missyologist. It's all about context, right? So I don't think there's a cookie cutter model, but again, if you, we tend to divide things into spiritual and not spiritual. I'm not saying there's not sacred and profane and all of that. But if you have a lot of people that are really hands on, but struggle with a Bible study,
Like lean into the hands-on and try to meet them where they're at. That's the pastoral piece of it, right? So if folks are really good at serving, try to empower people to serve, right? Whatever that idea looks like. If people are really into governance, we have a lot of former executives, right, that have a lot of that early retirement energy. So that's why we have a million committees and a really strong vestry. We empower them there. If people are really into education,
Lorenzo (42:10)
you
Dan Kline (he/him) (42:18)
So it's again, looking at the context and who you have in your community and building on the strengths rather than, and you got to do what you love to do too, right? It can't be all just whatever is the strength of the congregation. Each priest brings their own unique gifts, right? So the sweet spot is figuring out where those two things meet, but it's more of a culture than a particular program. Like obviously we're really into training.
We had a hundred people complete safe church. We're really into that. We just developed a volunteer handbook with our human resource committee. We're really big on getting child spares trained and licensed Eucharistic visitors. So training is important, but ⁓ I think the culture aspect and figuring out what's going to, and having the patients to like try a couple of things and figure out where do you start to see some movement, you know?
Lorenzo (43:19)
Jesse, what would you add?
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (43:20)
think, you know, as you're talking, I was actually thinking about, prior to this, prior to us serving together, I was a priest in charge over two smaller parish and Dan was at a third. So now this is a dream to be at one. But while I was at those two, which were family size parishes, so I was thinking about your question, not just here, but like if I was there and what, you know, and in every church that I've ever been, there's always at least one, but there are multiple people.
who they are the ones who always do fill in the blank. Well, so-and-so always fills the candles for church, or so-and-so is the one who orders the palms, or so-and-so does X, or Z. And I'm always like, that's cool, but also what happens if something happens to so-and-so? at one of my churches was this Walter Guild woman who'd been there for 60-some years, and only she knew where everything was, and I thought, if she goes, we have no idea where, you know, blah, blah.
And so what I did there, which I think we've done here in different ways, is if there's something that you know, that you do, that is small, you know, you're the one who every week adjusts the welcome mat. I mean, I don't care. You're the one who fills the pencils or whatever the thing is. Teach two other people. Have two other people do it with you. That there will be two other people who know where do I get this, where do I order this, how do I do this? It's very small. But then if you do that, then you can build on that.
So it's like, so there are two other people who now, and what's interesting is then people who have done these things forever, who are not martyrs by nature, but maybe secretly were like, I'm the only one who ever notices X. ⁓ Now they have two other people who care with them and they feel seen and they feel like what they're contributing has mattered. It matters enough to be taught.
Lorenzo (44:59)
Thank you.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (45:12)
And then it also is like now if that if you know if I've taught these persons and they know there's something and I don't know if they can articulate it that is loosened up that I now might be open to something else because I don't carry the responsibility and weight of holding it all on me. They may not articulate that. I've rarely had anyone go let me tell you now. But but by doing that it's just you know make sure two people know where this is or make sure to.
Lorenzo (45:33)
You're right. Yeah, I am.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (45:41)
Then you can kind of go, you're doing that, you're also learning about what brings people passion. Was that two years ago or three years ago? There's like this, and I won't belabor this, and you can cut this out if you need to. There is a show called Atypical, and it's about a kid who's neurodivergent, and it's his family, and it's a really lovely show. But he's very specifically,
Lorenzo (45:57)
It's okay.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (46:09)
singularly focused on penguins, like he's obsessed with penguins, he could tell you every fact. And I'm like, and the family's just like, yeah, well, then he's just into penguins. And there's a lovely penguin arch. I watched the show just for the ending. my gosh, it's so good. But I have decided that at church, everyone has a penguin. Everyone has one thing that they are obsessed with, and they are so upset that nobody else notices it. So that about two years ago was that I asked Vestry at our Vestry retreat, and then I asked our like altar guild, altar ministers in our training meetings, I'm like,
What's your penguin at church? We're going around and it's like one person's like, no one ever fills the candles. And they're like, what? I never even think about the candles. No one ever cleans the such and such thing. everybody's got their penguin. they're like, every time we sing, I notice that we've, whatever the thing is, whatever it is. Once everybody named their penguins and we started saying, what if you now, as the holder of that, you get to say, well, nobody else, I get to do that. I'm the one who fills it up. But I also might.
teach other people, it helped people also, again, relax into, like, it's not that everyone's ignoring filling up the little stoops by the, that was one. was like, nobody ever fills them up. And it was like, ⁓ I never even thought about it. No one ever. And then they suddenly are like, cool, that's my responsibility. I get to do that for Jesus in this way. Like, I get to do that. yeah. Yes.
Lorenzo (47:18)
Hahaha.
Which is already something that they like and it's already
something that they're doing. So you're just inviting them basically I think what to your point right you're naming something that they're already doing and like to do as something that's important in how this place Runs right we need someone to fill up the the candles with oil, right? We need someone to make sure that there's always water in the font for when people wouldn't come in right and while the other 22 people may not notice that you're right if you find the one
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (47:35)
Yes!
Yeah.
Right. Yeah.
Lorenzo (47:58)
for whom that's that's your penguin. That's there you go.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (48:03)
And even,
even in Vestri, was like, you know, there's always going to be, there's one guy who's always going to ask questions. He's never going to. And so that's his penguin. Great. So let's think about it. And then when he does, you don't have to be upset like, geez, this guy's always, he's just, he's genuinely just asking the questions, you know? I may have gotten like temporary penguin tattoos that you could be like, point, point, point. Yeah.
Lorenzo (48:22)
There you go, that makes sense.
to sort of come in for a landing here on this, as you look ahead, say five more years from where you're at now, you've come in, you've done, one, you think you can, I don't even know if this is a proper question to ask in like, do you think that you can maintain this level of growth and this level of activity at the place before it just bursts at the seams or you're.
You're buying the convention center to take over and become a mega church in Palm Springs or absolutely not. Or so what do you, where do you see yourself in five more years? Or are you now at a place where you're sort of like going to level off where 37,000 feet boom, it's now safe to move up at the cabin. We're going to sort of chill for a little bit and keep it there. So what's next? Where are you all going?
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (48:55)
No. No.
Dan Kline (he/him) (49:15)
I think, you know, if you look at organizational life cycles, there's the bell curve, right? And if this is all like the nerdy, you know, church math, if you look at where we're at, I think, I think, you know, once we, I think our, and I'm going to do it from the church services. think our
Lorenzo (49:28)
That's who listens to our podcast, by the way, Church Nerds, the Tri-Tank Podcast, Church Nerds only.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (49:31)
Yes. Yes.
Dan Kline (he/him) (49:43)
First service is about as full as it's gonna get. Our third service is about as full as it's gonna get. Our second service is the growth service. Once we fill that service up with another 50 to 100 people, which I think is doable, people are finding us. ⁓ A lot of people came and we didn't really have an external marketing strategy for trying it out this year. It was mostly word of mouth. So if we do some kind of external marketing campaign, I think that's kind of our max size.
And then we know what are our limits in terms of how much do we need to fund? What is our staffing model? And then from there, if we have any increase, I think our vision would be to give it away and share it, right? How do we help support the other parishes and the diocese and the valley, ⁓ you know, maybe be that other people could learn some of what we've done if any of it's.
Replicable other places and try to do something similar someplace else But I don't think it's to try and grow this till it can't grow anymore. You know, that's I think it's You know where we kind of have where we where we want it to go and then I don't know what that that's a very like Quantitative answer. It's not a qualitative answer
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (50:58)
I was gonna say,
I was gonna say, so can you tell, so his additional degree is a master's in church management from Villanova Business School. And my other degree is a master's in transforming spirituality with an emphasis in spiritual direction from a good Jesuit school. I'm just saying, so you, no.
Lorenzo (51:05)
There you go.
there we go. Let me ask this question then of Jesse, forget about Dan and like, well, once we reach this, the medical
number, we're over here and what we're going to do.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (51:18)
This is why it works. You've got business
and you've got spirituality. That's actually what works. So he helps us make sure that we're on target for making sure our bills and stuff, know, and budgets are really good. I think, ⁓ again, we asked our vestry, we've done lots of stuff with them on church size. And one of the things we've been talking a lot about is we had vestry get up and go, what was the church you were formed in? Whether it was your childhood or you came to the church and...
Lorenzo (51:26)
Ha
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (51:46)
What size was it and how to stand, you know, you were part of a pastoral, you're part of a family, you're part of a program, you're part of a, what's the last one, corporate or whatever. And ⁓ resource. And then, you know, so then I had them talk, what was it like? What were the charisms you liked? What, you know, what was the challenge blah, Then I had them go, where do you think this was, ⁓ what, two years, three years ago? Time's weird. ⁓ What size church do you feel God is calling St. Paul's to be? And I had them move.
Dan Kline (he/him) (51:55)
Yeah, Resource Corporate, yeah.
Yeah.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (52:16)
And almost everyone went to ⁓ program size church. Two people went to the corporate one. And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me, man. I'm not looking to make me a cathedral. And they go, and one of them goes, well, you know, what I'd really like is a program church with a corporate budget. That's what I really want, you know. I was like, well, doesn't everybody? Doesn't everybody? But, right.
Lorenzo (52:33)
there we go. It's like, open up that wallet, we'll be happy.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (52:39)
Exactly. So I don't see us ever. I don't want to be, I'm like anti-mega church. I shouldn't say anti. I'm happy for those who feel called to it. I do not feel called to it. But what I do think the piece for me is, so it's cool. People come. I want people, I feel like, and again, this is what I preached on a couple weeks ago, but I feel like part of my calling is to remove any barriers people have between the love of God and them. And the church has put up, the world has put up.
people have been put up a ton of barriers of why the church is not a safe or good place. And so when people come in, we explicitly give the whole, like every single one of you invited to this table, right? Like, this is the table of the Lord, for us ever the church. But I want people when they come in, like, it's cool that we're growing numerically, that's cool. And again, Dan can do the stats and what do we need and all the, you I love it, I appreciate it. For me, I want...
Lorenzo (53:35)
Ha ha ha.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (53:37)
And I think this is true for him too. I want when people to come for people to exhale first, to feel like they can let go of the stuff that has kept them from the kind of faith that they want or else they wouldn't have tiptoed in. People long for faith. They long to belong to something bigger than themselves. Right now the cultural or the yeah, the cultural narrative is a kind of Christianity that has been co-opted in a way that we are like, no, no, no, we actually want to be a part of a Christianity that is actually like
with the vulnerable and the marginalized. We are not oppressing them. Right. The ones that, right. And so I want people to not only exhale, to feel like they are seen, to feel like they are beloved and wanted, to find community to be integrated. So when I think about what the next phase is, we've got about a year and a half until we take a sabbatical and we put together a sabbatical task force. Again, we're like thinking ahead.
Lorenzo (54:08)
It's more like the one in the book more like this one. Who's this one?
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (54:34)
that helped write a grant, whether or not we get the grant, cool. And if Lily, you're listening, we totally want it. But anyways, ⁓ but whether or not we get the grant, the thoughtful ways in which we're preparing for the grant, the grant will, by the time we get done with it, that will conclude our five years of the strategic plan. And so for the next year and a half, how we're preparing doing some reflection analysis and listening together, listening even more.
Lorenzo (54:39)
you
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (55:00)
so that when we come back, we can go in, what is God calling St. Paul's for the next couple of three to five years, right? And so, ⁓ but I think for us, when we think, we talk a lot about the piece in this last year of growth is how do we help newcomers get connected to each other and get connected to their faith and have access to serving and have access to participating, the world's on fire. So can they show up and help?
wash people's clothes, feed people, can they show up and learn about advocacy or about how the biblical texts are actually relevant to how they live. And so I think that integration piece is important for me. so if it's five people who come or no more people that come, just want people to go, like I have experienced faith where I've experienced what it's like to have no barriers between me and the love that I was made in.
You know, so that would be it.
Lorenzo (55:59)
Amen. And I could not
ask for a better, you know, sort of statement to finish this conversation. And, Dan, Jesse, it is a pleasure for me to to. Wow, there's so many things. It is a pleasure for me to be a priest in the church where both of you are priests. It is an honor for me to be a member of St. Paul's, where I have seen I have seen the growth from that day that I let the Eucharist on the day they voted on who would be there next.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (56:17)
Kinda rad.
Yeah.
Lorenzo (56:29)
To today and just to have seen not only how the congregation embraced you but more importantly I think how you all embrace the congregation And and so it is just an honor to have had you on the tri-tank podcast today, too So hopefully others I I took notes and I'm not even a rector and I'm like, I just want to learn this stuff I just want to know these things because it's I just think it makes me a better Christian So thank you for sharing that wisdom with others
⁓ And people can go check out the website of St. Paul's which is it just changed recently You're ⁓
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (57:05)
Yeah. St. Paul,
Dan Kline (he/him) (57:07)
Yeah.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (57:08)
St. Paul Desert dot church, St. Paul Desert dot church.
Lorenzo (57:12)
Thank
Paul Dessert.Church, Dan Klein, Jesse Thompson. Thank you so much for being with us today. I really appreciate it.
Jessie Thompson (she/her) (57:18)
Thank you for inviting
us, Lorenzo. Thank you.
Dan Kline (he/him) (57:20)
Thanks for
having us.