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"Building the Base" - an in-depth series of conversations with top entrepreneurs, innovators, and leaders from tech, financial, industrial, and public sectors.
Our special guests provide their unique perspectives on a broad selection of topics such as: shaping our future national security industrial base, the impact of disruptive technologies, how new startups can increasingly contribute to national security, and practical tips on leadership and personal development whether in government or the private sector.
Building the Base is hosted by Lauren Bedula, is Managing Director and National Security Technology Practice Lead at Beacon Global Strategies, and the Honorable Jim "Hondo" Geurts who retired from performing the duties of the Under Secretary of the Navy and was the former Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Research, Development & Acquisition and Acquisition Executive at United States Special Operations Command.
Lauren Bedula 0:01
Welcome back to Building the Base. Hondo Geurts and Lauren Bedula here with today's guest, Jamie Jones Miller. We're so excited to have Jamie here today, not just because her incredible background in government, both on the Hill and DOD, which we'll get into, but the role she's playing now in academia, as CEO of Northeastern Arlington campus, and is also Interim Director and CEO of the Kostas Research Institute, so really representing Northeastern work around national security research. So Jamie, thanks so much for joining us today. We're excited to get into it.
Jamie Jones Miller 0:32
Thanks for having me on. So Jamie, great to see you again. Good to be here with you.
Hondo Geurts 0:37
We usually start the show off, kind of talking to our guests, our listeners get a sense of background. We're lucky, because we have folks with such diverse backgrounds. You're right in that. How did you how'd you get started? What got you into national security and now at a university? Who to thunk it?
Jamie Jones Miller 0:52
Who'd have thunk it? National security is the family business. My father was a tanker pilot in the Air Force. He went the Intel route and eventually became a defense attache. My mom worked for it, retired from dia so it was pretty clear a security clearance was in my future. But I got to experience, you know, life abroad, living in developing countries, understanding the influence of the United States from a diplomatic and military lens in those developing countries, and it was pretty clear that I wanted to serve my country in the same way that my parents had. So I feel lucky to have had that perspective. And that's what drew me into national security, foreign policy, ultimately working on Capitol Hill, traveling over to the Department of Defense and then academia was not in the plan at all, but it was a really interesting and unique opportunity. Northeastern was looking to grow its footprint here in the National Capital Region. They were looking for opportunities to combine this intersection of security policy and technology. Where else can you do that but here in the National Capital Region, and they were looking for somebody who had experience in that realm. So I took this total deviation from everything I thought I was going to do in my career and said yes. Launched our graduate campus and Arlington with programs at that intersection of technology and policy and security growing our research portfolio in the national security space. And then here I am, you know, three years later.
Hondo Geurts 2:31
So how'd you get on the Hill? So a lot of folks, you know, they see folks on the Hill, like, how did you break into that whole enterprise?
Jamie Jones Miller 2:39
This is a great story about the power of the network. I was working at a really small lobbying firm at the time, and I would go up to the Hill, and I would sit across the table from that staffer or member with the client, and I kept thinking like I want to be on the other side of this table. I want to be the one vetting the proposals and making recommendations on votes and serving the state or the district. And I found an opening in the office of Congressman Randy Forbes of Virginia, in the Hampton Roads Tidewater area for a legislative assistant. And I looked in the paper directory at the time, it's a lot easier now, and found out that the legislative director was a fraternity brother of my husband's at our alma mater, James Madison University. And so my husband called, and he answered the phone. He said, come in for an interview. And I really appreciated that they took a chance on me, having had zero Hill experience, and I was willing to take whatever portfolio they gave me. So I had a bunch of cat and dog issues, and then I worked really hard to learn the national security portfolio, and ultimately became the MLA and then fleeted up to be the LD in handling that portfolio. So I'm you just never know where the connection is going to lead you. And also just be willing to step through the door when, or force the door open, in some cases, if you need to. And then that led to me working for two members from Virginia, both on HASC, both passionate about ship building and the defense industrial base. And that's really set me on the course that I'm on now.
Lauren Bedula 4:13
I love that story, and I chat with folks quite often about how do I stand out, or how do I get my application noticed? And I had a similar story too, where I was like my mom's cousin, we thought may have served with the person I was applying to the job. And I think that's a good message to shoot your shot. Get creative, and don't be shy about it, too. I think that that stands out. So it's good point to emphasize for our listeners that are thinking about next steps. You mentioned Jamie, the emphasis on security policy and technology with what you're doing now, before we get into the specifics of what the university is doing, can you tell us why over the span of your career, you see the intersection of these three as so important right now?
Jamie Jones Miller 4:55
it's kind of this triad you can't have one without the other. And as as we're thinking about career transition, and there are, there's a lot of talent right now, either looking to move, or having to move, or making a different choice about their career path. And when I'm talking to employers, they're they're telling me they want the unicorns, they want the people that understand the policy and the technology and how it intersects, or they want the people that have the leadership skills who can also talk technology, and then they want the people who can figure out how to look into the future and see what's coming. And I find that particularly interesting. And thinking about, how can we weave learning about artificial intelligence, but learning with artificial intelligence into our policy programs, for example, or intelligence analysis program for example, it can't it. It can't stand on its own anymore.
Lauren Bedula 6:05
That's cool. I was thinking too you'd have a reaction from the threat landscape, but I like your reaction even better, which is the cross pollination between these areas is so critical right now, we can't treat them as silos, right? And that's a lot of what we talk about on our show, where it's translating between the communities, but the more that we're shaping folks to understand each the better, right? So it's cool to hear.
Jamie Jones Miller 6:27
And that's, I would say, one of my big regrets, if you were to ask me about my time on the hill and at the department. So at DOD, I was in the Office of Legislative Affairs, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for house affairs and then principal deputy for legislative affairs. I was really operating in the threat landscape space, the policy space, but I didn't really get into the technology or the solutioning or the requirement space in either of those roles, interestingly enough, and so now that I look back, I wish I had taken the time to learn a little bit more about technology development, the requirements process, how we buy things, goods and services in the federal government. It would have made me better, I think, as a Hill staffer, for sure, certainly, as someone in the in the legislative affairs team, because I could have helped members who I think they know where they wanted to go in many cases, but they couldn't figure out how to get there by writing a policy and a bill. And I think that's also where some of the skill set comes in. How do we translate both the technology and the policy to achieve that desired end state.
Hondo Geurts 7:45
It's really good to have you. Lauren and I were both remarking, we're remiss in not having the academic quadrant here is as part of the show. So thanks for coming on then and kind of helping us in that just maybe even larger than Northeastern. How do you see, with your experience, academia playing into this, enabling it, and what might other communities do, whether it's a hill or DOD to better, at least start making connections to academia.
Jamie Jones Miller 8:17
When I first started to prep for my interviews with Northeastern now, I almost four years ago. You know, I did what anybody would do. I would go to the internet, and I would, you know, look, look up, you know, how does, how does academia engage with the federal government, with the research enterprise? And of course, there's some very clear and interesting pathways for doing so, and there are many universities that are operate in this space, what I also uncovered are the number of external parties who write reports or Have report cards that state academia is a key player in the national security enterprise. We need to gage academia, not just in talent and workforce development, but also in the research lanes, in technology transfer, exquisite problem solving and all of that was good, but trying to figure out the equation of how to actually deliver on it and build those relationships within the ecosystem. So that's actually the part of this role that I play now. I'm not the one that's going to come upon some amazing scientific, you know, some sort of deliver some sort of product or technology. I'm not going to uncover that. We have brilliant people at universities doing that, but if I can help see the future, or I could say, All right, what is the next critical technologies list at DOD gonna look like? Or when the national defense strategy comes out? Are we academia aligned against the threat landscape and the various lines of effort at the department, because we know that's where the investments are going to be made. So if I can help provide that linkage and so many of my colleagues and friends who are in academia, many of whom you know, used to be an active duty or were DOD civilians, I think that's going to actually help bridge that gap that all these reports and report cards say we need to fill, because, as a recent program manager for one of the services told me, if we don't have a requirement for it, we don't want it, we're not going to buy it. So is the academic enterprise and ecosystem driving towards those requirements? That's the conversation I'm enjoying being a part of.
Lauren Bedula 10:51
What has surprised you most, stepping back into this community, assuming it was a little while, because you were in government so long, but since you had studied what surprised you most, most about the culture or approach to academia now that you're back into it. Anything there?
Jamie Jones Miller 11:06
One of the questions I was asked during the interview process was, tell me about a time where you've worked in a cross functional, multi disciplinary team with a variety of stakeholders. And that one was easy. I got to serve and support the space governance council, and was on the Space Force working group when we voted on and determined the form that Space Force would take. I mean the number of anti bodies around that whole dynamic I'm sure you can imagine. So of course, I use that as an example. But I think what's really interesting. I am the Dean of The Arlington campus, the CEO of our campus. I'm the leader of our national security enterprise at Northeastern and I have 127 credit hours after high school. I have a bachelor's degree. And I have been welcomed into the academic community, and the fact that I don't have a hard credential has not been a barrier for me. And I think that is awesome. The value that universities like Northeastern, particular place on that experiential learning. We've got to do that more. I'm a clear example. I didn't get the degree, but having that experience set to bring to the table, I think can be really, really important.
Lauren Bedula 12:31
That makes a lot of sense, and is probably welcome to hear as costs are rising so dramatically at universities, as folks are thinking through, is it a community college, or is trade school or, you know, thinking creatively, to not carry debt with them. And so it's nice to hear that you don't have to check so many boxes if you want to follow a path you've followed. And instead have that experience?
Jamie Jones Miller 12:54
Thinking about, what tools do you need in your toolbox? Maybe it is a credential, right? We know that federal government contractors, I mean, there's still certain requirements for credentials, and that's fair. But take a minute and look at your overall toolbox, and what are some of your gaps and deficiencies. I'll be the first person to admit I know how we launch and recover aircraft off of an aircraft carrier. I've seen an aircraft carrier in dry dock, whole deal, but AI and the role it could play in operations not something that my brain can comprehend. So first thing I did when Northeastern offered an opportunity for faculty and staff to take an AI essentials course was sign up, and it was worth it. So I think we've all got to take that inventory of what are some of those gaps, and what are some of the things that are now foundational, that maybe used to be optional, think is really worth the time and the effort smart.
Hondo Geurts 13:58
So, you know, there's a lot of friction folks have pointed to between DOD, in particular, and academia. And so you know, whether it's having US cleared persons, whether it's publishing or not, or staying focused on a mission outcome, not a lab outcome, is your sense, both sides are learning how to work better with each other. And the customer asking academia for things, and academia shaping, you know, whether it's like you've done with this NASA security Institute, do you see those two communities start to create a more of a mesh network, to kind of work together?
Jamie Jones Miller 14:37
Yes, and I think that's the key to how we leapfrog ahead in the entire national security enterprise. How are all these different stakeholders and parties talking to each other? Because there's nothing more frustrating. And Hondo, I'm sure you experienced this when people came in to see you, the parties are just talking past each other. And Lauren, for you with some of your clients, I'm sure they come to you and they're like, this is my problem. And you're like, no, actually, this is your problem. So yes, I think continued engagement amongst stakeholders, learning each other's languages even just the simple thing of you know, how are we a university reviewing policy language in the National Defense Authorization Act or the national defense strategy, and not parroting it back, but speaking to it when we are asking for more funding. For example, are we prioritizing our competencies, capabilities, areas for research based on whatever set of requirements we're facing or the threat landscape, and then conversely, our stakeholders and partners in industry or in government, for that matter, coming and saying, This is our problem set. We need x talent in 12 or 18 months to be able to solve it, and that's where I think we start to crack this open.
Lauren Bedula 16:04
Are you even in now your three years in leadership in academia? Are you seeing a shift at all in the appetite or interest around national security? Those three years aligned kind of well with Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which I think was a pretty significant milestone from the tech community showing interest to want to serve or partner with the national security community. Have you seen any changes on the on the academia side or with students in terms of that appetite or interest?
Jamie Jones Miller 16:32
I don't know. I'm admittedly biased and in a bubble, right? I mean, I mentioned national security is the family business, so that's kind of the space that I'm used to being in. And of course, we should be thinking about national security as economic security and vice versa. Whether that's whether and how that's trickling down in a broad sense, I don't know. But there are more more programs and opportunities that I could ever conceive of or be aware of where real world problem sets are coming from, industry, government, military, into the classroom for students to work on and solve as a capstone project or as consultants at Northeastern case, as a co op student a paid full time work experience for a period of time. I'm seeing that that penetration of problem sets as a really good, good thing and an opportunity to see dual use technology as well as a focus area. I think there's a tremendous amount of interest in startups and innovation and in thinking about what Northeastern is doing at our the rue Institute in Portland Maine, where they're growing a Defense Innovation Hub, and are trying to support that ecosystem. I think that's a way that universities can spark some growth and some solutioning outside of maybe some of the traditional spaces. So again, I'm biased. I believe in the mission. I did have this identity crisis when I left government right. I knew it was very clear every day I parked and walked into the Pentagon, and you know, I'd walk past the seal and the flags, and I knew what I was serving. I knew what my my mission was. So when I left, it was kind of hard to figure out, like, what is it? And being in academia now, I get to help prepare that talent pipeline. Who are going to fill these mission mission critical skills gaps fill the mission critical skills gaps, and who are gonna go solve some of these really exquisite problems that we just don't know how to deal with right now.
Lauren Bedula 18:50
You mentioned the Co Op program, which I think is such a fantastic one, and as far as I'm aware, not new, right? I remember hearing about this long time.
Jamie Jones Miller 18:57
Not new. Northeastern has been doing co op for over 100 years, and is consecutively year over year, the number one school for co op in the nation.
Lauren Bedula 19:06
And a co op is it's the third year. Could you just explain for listeners?
Jamie Jones Miller 19:11
Sure, for for undergraduates, and a lot of universities do this, so I don't want to suggest it's just Northeastern, but for undergraduate students, they may take one, two, sometimes three, semesters, and they'll do a full time work experience embedded in an employer. They will have at Northeastern they have an advisor that helps them kind of prepare for that full time work experience and then connect the dots between the work experience and their curriculum and their coursework. And sometimes they'll do multiple co ops at the same location, or they'll experiment a little bit, and the employer gets to take the student on a check ride. And vice versa, the student gets to determine if that's, you know, the environment they want to be on. And then hopefully, of course, it leads to full time employment. Many graduate students also do Co Op. It's particularly helpful for students who are career changers, so they get that Running Start if they're going a new career path. But it has been pretty exciting to encounter alumni who say my co op second semester freshman year prepared me for my career, and I already kind of had my game plan and my passport for my career experience by virtue of that one experience, or someone else will say, Yep, I did the thing and I don't want to do that thing. And I think that's really helpful to encounter in a lower risk.
Lauren Bedula 20:37
And sorry I keep pulling on this one. But is there like government, national security. Do you have partners, all of them all the above?
Jamie Jones Miller 20:44
Yep, and we Northeastern and so many of our academic partners, and particularly around this area, of course, are looking to work with defense contractors and others in the national security enterprise that are all screaming for talent. Now they'd love to have the talent that comes with security clearance and that that's a whole nother topic. But of course, you and you reference the US citizen requirement that is very unique to this particular area. So yeah, we are trying to to make build those partnerships, figure out, how do we predict the future for talent needs and get people in the pipeline that have a little bit of that experiential learning under their belt before they show up on day one.
Hondo Geurts 21:30
So if you could talk to your customers now and again, representing academia as a whole is a challenging thing, you know, but if you could talk to the customer right now, what are some of the ways they can, you know, either remove obstacles or enable this to really scale? Because, my sense is, many times it's this person knows about this program, at this thing, and it's very, you know, episodic and maybe not scale. What? What could the customer think about scale this?
Jamie Jones Miller 22:03
You've identified the perpetual problem. Whose door do I go knock on and say Hi, I'm Jamie, and I'm here to help. Right? It's very challenging because it might be the talent acquisition lead or the head of HR, or it might be the chief technology officer, or it might be the unit head, wherever, on whatever product line. It's not all consistent. And so when we're talking to prospective partners, I like to ask the question, okay, so you probably company have a technology development or acquisition plan or an artificial intelligence implementation plan. Do you have a talent pipeline plan? How many engineers do you need to hire in the next 12 to 18 months if you're chasing whatever this technology plan is? And that will get that question going. So it seems very clear what the business operation and the direction the business is going in, is that aligned or matched to a talent strategy? And that's usually the opening point for that conversation.
Hondo Geurts 23:12
Yeah. And I do think having we set some things up at Special Operations Command, some of the there's a talent aspect, but there's also actually work performance aspect of actually delivering products and capabilities and whatnot. Can you speak a little bit to how that interaction should or shouldn't go, or maybe how that might also improve?
Jamie Jones Miller 23:35
I'm going to peel this back, maybe even one more layer, and I think put the question on the table of, are there any more entry level jobs? Because I think this is now kind of becoming the problem. What would a college graduate be doing one year out? Will they have the desire to work as a government employee? Will they pursue military service as a career pathway? I mean, these are all, I think, relevant questions. But what does that person with a bachelor's degree or a master's what are they equipped to do when they get the degree the next day. And so I think that goes back to then, kind of the employer really thinking about, what is the alignment and structure and timeline to achieve the outcome that they want, and do they have the personnel aligned to it? But even more important, are they willing to bring people in at a more junior level, invest in them, mentor them, coach them, expose them to many elements of the business. That's that's a tough commitment to make for someone who maybe is going to. Be with you for 18 months or three years, potentially. But I think that's a really, really important question. What is the plan for the farm team and for the junior personnel, and how are you going to recruit them and, frankly, retain them and reward and incentivize them for the outcomes that you're seeking?
Lauren Bedula 25:21
I'm going to flip Hondo's question to the university side. If it seems like there's a lot more universities setting up national security fellow programs, national security outreach DC campuses or buildings or presence in some way, what's the best practice for other industry or universities looking to get engaged in the national security community. Do they need all that? Do they need a UARC? Or do you have any kind of simple best practices about how to get involved?
Jamie Jones Miller 25:52
I think, Gosh, it's the same with any other type of maybe a business development is, how do you spot an opportunity, match that and align that with your capabilities, whether it's within your faculty or your research core or your students, or whatever it might be, and say we're the best at doing this, and these are what our differentiators are, and this is how we can solve your problem. But first there has to be that relationship and the communication of, okay, partner, what are your pain points? Because I think a lot of times we rush in and we're this, we're here to we're here to help. We're gonna solve all your problems. But we don't take a minute to figure out what are the pain points. What problems are we are we really trying to solve? So I think that's the first kind of level is, what are the institutional competencies? Where are their priorities? Security is one of northeastern three research pillars in our last academic plan. So it's been very clear this is what the university has been invested in. How do those things align and then building a trusting reciprocal relationship with a stakeholder and partner, where you deliver on something, and then there's trust, and you deliver on the next thing, and then they're willing to refer you to somebody else. I think that's, I think that's how it works. But you have to be willing to invest, and then you have to be able to deliver.
Lauren Bedula 27:19
Yeah, it's amazing because when you were explaining almost how you think about stakeholder mapping doors to knock on, that's what we hear from a lot of our industry guests, right? It's just kind of understanding mission, translating capabilities. And we hear that even internal to government too, is just the importance of that network analysis and just getting out there. Is there anything from from where you sit that would be more helpful to be at the table, or are you seeing progress? To your point about we are often recommending academia and be involved, but we don't necessarily follow through any kind of short term ideas there.
Jamie Jones Miller 27:52
I mean, gosh, if I could call up all the conference organizers in town and say, Hey, we've got some people maybe to be on one of your panels. Again, not necessarily from Northeastern but sure. But there's so many interesting people doing interesting research to solve real world current problems. Maybe, maybe that ideal panel is someone from industry, government, government, academia and private capital.
Lauren Bedula 28:15
It makes a lot of sense. And on the flip side to actually seeing progress here yesterday, I was at the Army's demand signal. Demand signal forum, and George Mason hosted it. So maybe even the convening power that universities have or ability to host, just in terms of brick and mortar.
Jamie Jones Miller 28:31
Absolutely, I think universities do bring that convening power to the table. We have a long roster of industry partners, so how do we leverage those partners, make connections amongst those partners? I think there is a play there. And I also think you mentioned the number of universities in the National Capital Region. There are a lot, and we all talk to each other.
Hondo Geurts 28:56
Yeah, I mean, I think of it Lauren, in terms of a network. And I think this may be a node or set of nodes. If you turn back 3040, 50 years ago, academia was really strong in the national security space. Silicon Valley was kind of born out of national security, a lot at Stanford and academic institutions. But then we kind of drove apart to some degree over the last 20 or 30 years, and it's I'm getting a sense it's coming back together. Are you feeling that one of my frustrations sometimes working with the academic community was it was good if you're working with one university or college, but trying to get four or five working together on a project was harder than getting the services to work together on a project is your sense, particularly in national security, it might be a little bit more mission focused, versus pure research play that that there's some opportunity there to bring the best of best of universities together, versus having the government customer try and figure out who's best at what.
Jamie Jones Miller 29:59
Yeah. I mean lead with mission always. Lead with capabilities always. I think if, if I were trying to constantly adjust the security portfolio to track to wherever the government is, that would be really challenging. So how do we see into the future, really invest in and attract the talent and the capabilities in in a certain portfolio where we have differentiators, we have strength, we have strong partnerships. And to me, I think that's a better strategy than constantly trying to track to shifting demand signals. But I also do think that when you're you're leaning into the mission and you are committed, you also have to have the strength to say, partner, what problem are you trying to solve, under what time line and with what level of resources, and have the relationship back and forth to say, this is the scope of work. This is the time horizon and the trust if those things need to be adjusted or moved because I do think there is. It's been a challenge for me, leaving government, going into academia or going in the private sector, everybody's kind of working off a different timeline. And the biggest problem is that everyone's working off a different fiscal year. And so, you know, a company might end on December 31 and you have, who knows how you know this fiscal year is going to end. Maybe Congress will have something to say about that here, you know, next couple weeks, and then a university is probably working off a different fiscal year. So really thinking about timelines and when programs are conceptualized, or they're backing up to when the requirements are being set, and laying out those timelines and milestones so they overlap, because I think they often come into conflict with one another.
Lauren Bedula 32:13
Well, Jamie, we know how busy you are. We're so grateful that you took the time to come on and gonna share that perspective from where you sit in academia, there's, as Honda said a lot here, that's just been very consistent about what we've learned when it comes to networks and kind of communication between different communities. So really appreciate your take and look forward to pulling you into more things too, to make sure academia is at the table.
Jamie Jones Miller 32:37
Well, I appreciate it. Obviously, this is a new kind of topic and area for me, I have learned a lot, and I think academia can have a voice, but it's going to take all of us working together to get to where we want to be, and we've got to go faster. So thank you for having me on.
Lauren Bedula 32:54
Thanks, Jamie.