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NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
00;00;16;00 - 00;00;18;20
Aaron
Chris, why do you think the models have been so cruddy this week?
00;00;18;26 - 00;00;34;12
Chris
Oh my God, dude, it's like the weather. Like we've had the worst week of model performance and it's killing me. I got to assume it's like demand and maybe, like, compute being offline over in the Middle East, I don't know, but, like it's brutal.
00;00;34;14 - 00;00;35;06
Aaron
Do you think it's that.
00;00;35;06 - 00;00;38;06
Pri
That'd be what some people are saying. The Middle East thing.
00;00;38;07 - 00;00;38;20
Aaron
Really?
00;00;38;21 - 00;00;39;01
Pri
Yeah.
00;00;39;02 - 00;00;42;15
Aaron
Like they like, they shut down some data centers. Do they actually do that?
00;00;42;20 - 00;00;45;22
Pri
I saw that on Twitter. I don't know if that was just like people speculating though.
00;00;45;29 - 00;01;05;01
Aaron
Pre you flag this, that you think that the data center AI stuff will be like a hot political topic pretty soon. And it was interesting, at least to me. There was like a New York Times podcast from, Ross Douthat. I can never pronounce his last name. And Chris Hayes, you know, the TV personality and the end. They pretty much agreed with you 100% on that.
00;01;05;01 - 00;01;11;02
Aaron
So maybe we should be building those data centers and, you know, random parts of the US instead of shutting them down.
00;01;11;04 - 00;01;19;01
Chris
I mean, do we have to cram all these Northern Virginia or can we all live with, like, you know, another 20 milliseconds of latency.
00;01;19;03 - 00;01;21;20
Aaron
You know, by putting it in, like, Nebraska or something? Chris.
00;01;21;22 - 00;01;32;09
Chris
Yeah, stick all the shit in West Texas, like have a geothermal powered by all the, like the fracking stew they pump back in the water or something, I don't know, get creative man.
00;01;32;12 - 00;01;51;13
Pri
A lot of the data centers, the data that it's like already in Arizona and Texas because it's like the cheapest for electricity anyway. And frankly, like the, you know, whatever the Texas and and states in that area tend to be more open to this type of building. Like, I, I feel like we're already seeing growth in West Texas.
00;01;51;15 - 00;01;57;14
Pri
Like even when we were in Marfa, someone was saying that an Oracle data center was going to be opening not far from Marfa.
00;01;57;17 - 00;02;33;23
Chris
And yeah, I look, there's going to be data centers everywhere, and we can't put them all in Texas because I'm worried like, Texas will decide my vibe. Coding doesn't support creationism and cut me off, right? Like I need I need data centers all over the place, across all political, thoughts and like, ridiculous restrictions. Put them in space, put them on like decommissioned aircraft carriers, or just stick them in Nebraska, put them in main like data centers everywhere, except where people need to throw up like single family housing.
00;02;33;26 - 00;02;52;24
Aaron
Yeah. I mean, you'd feel like the US still has enough, like empty space. Why don't they open up like some of the national land for that? If it's a concern to like if it's such a nascent national security issue or people feel like it will be, you kind of get like ovations of that, like, why? Why not open up some of that land, assuming you could balance the environmental concerns?
00;02;52;27 - 00;03;08;20
Chris
Yeah. I don't think it's the actual land. Right. It's all the infrastructure that but again, like, you know, let's let's frickin litter a bunch of the wasteland on the other side of the Mississippi with solar panels and stick a big data center in the middle.
00;03;08;23 - 00;03;12;15
Aaron
It's not wasteland, Chris. Come on, that's beautiful land. That's God's country.
00;03;12;18 - 00;03;30;21
Chris
Beauty's in the eye of the beholder. The American West is filled with filled with wonderful sites. I've driven across a huge swath of it and agree with you that same thing though. Like, have you ever driven from, I don't know, let's say, Iowa to the Rockies?
00;03;30;23 - 00;03;41;04
Aaron
I did go through Nevada once, and it is a tough there's some tough stretches in Nevada where it's just a lot of like big brown dirt. Maybe that's a good place to throw the data centers.
00;03;41;06 - 00;03;44;25
Chris
Yeah, they can run on, nuclear test residue.
00;03;44;28 - 00;04;05;02
Pri
Yeah. This is what this is what I don't you can just stick data centers anywhere that you need, like a power source. Electricity like. So if, you know, a company wanted to set up a data center, isn't it actually cheaper for them to do that in an area that already has the infrastructure to support that, rather than having to bring it into the middle of nowhere in Nebraska and set up the infrastructure?
00;04;05;04 - 00;04;06;09
Aaron
I'm sure you're right.
00;04;06;12 - 00;04;08;27
Chris
We're just that that's Northern Virginia's problem.
00;04;09;05 - 00;04;21;11
Pri
Like, why if you were like Oracle, like, why would you want to like, build this like power structure out? You can just like piss off people in new Jersey and lobby your way out of it and like, not have to spend the money.
00;04;21;12 - 00;04;30;14
Chris
I hear you, but they're also talking about putting them in space. So I mean, clearly like the Overton window of where data centers go, they're literally everywhere.
00;04;30;20 - 00;04;36;05
Pri
That's fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah, I can like parsing out, but like, yeah, space is going to be like the most expensive.
00;04;36;07 - 00;04;39;27
Chris
Apparently not once you solve it. So who knows.
00;04;40;00 - 00;05;14;04
Aaron
Yeah. I just think it's like I, I, I think you saw this before. I did pre, which is just by 2028, even if you look at all the, increasingly bearish estimates of how this stuff advances, like AI singularity just going to be here. Right. People are positing it's going to hit some point next year in 2027. So it's it is going to be a huge thematic I think over the next, you know, from 2027 to 2028, which will be an election year and the potential impact and all these other pieces related to it.
00;05;14;04 - 00;05;19;04
Aaron
So I just I guess I didn't connect those things together. It feels like you did a bit more.
00;05;19;06 - 00;05;50;01
Pri
Yeah. I mean, we'll see. I mean, it's going to I mean, beyond just the data center that's like the that's like the appetizer, if you will. I feel like we're definitely going to see more backlash when it comes to just work. And then on top of that, manufacturing with like embodied AI, if that's feels pretty ripe, for 2028, like, I feel like there's definitely I just seeing the speed at which some of the robotic stuff is moving, like we'll probably have like Amazon warehouses full of robots by 2028.
00;05;50;03 - 00;06;24;07
Pri
I think some of that's going to be deeply unpopular, especially even like, you know, autonomous vehicles, all that that scales like, I don't understand how like 20, 28, like the main issue is going to be like jobs, tech, data center, power, like all of that's going to be like a huge issue. And the thing is, it's bipartisan. Like it's not really like if you go to MAGA or progressive left, they like both are anti for maybe different reasons, but they're not necessarily excited by the prospect of this like techno takeover.
00;06;24;10 - 00;06;47;02
Aaron
Yeah I think maybe there's like a reorientation to where they landed, which I thought was interesting is just, you know, like this is going to have to be like a really tightly formulated policy position from both parties. And it's a tricky one for the reasons you're describing to kind of articulate. And it will probably be the core issue when people are talking about the economy for the reasons you described.
00;06;47;02 - 00;07;09;20
Aaron
Right? Whether it's like job displacement or, you know, the data center issues or just like the kind of ebbing power of the professional class. Right? I think we we heard, the madman Alex Karp, right, from Palantir, kind of musing about that yesterday, too. I think you're kind of right about it. I don't think I like, comprehended the gravity of all that.
00;07;09;22 - 00;07;13;10
Pri
Yeah. We'll see. It's going to be three guys.
00;07;13;12 - 00;07;24;07
Chris
Zo Han has a plan for this. We're going to build a huge data center right in JFK and planes when they're not busy flying. This going to pull up and like start their turbines and power that shit.
00;07;24;15 - 00;07;36;08
Aaron
That'd be wild. I mean, I kind of wish that would be the case. How about we just, like, are better able to pick up, like, a ridesharing? You know, service from JFK? I just sign up for that. That'd be a huge benefit.
00;07;36;11 - 00;07;39;27
Chris
Oh, they they keep making that, like, trickier and harder and stupider.
00;07;39;29 - 00;07;58;04
Aaron
Yeah, it's just like, it works fine. Like, why are we fixing this? But I feel I feel like you're you're starting to feel like some, frostiness. Right. Like that, dumb lobster that they put in front of the bow. I think that that, did that trigger you? What happened? You just saw it, and your your brain just exploded.
00;07;58;06 - 00;08;19;28
Pri
Yeah. You know, sometimes you see something, or it just like things become clear because it's like this. It's it's sort of just a situation that is emblematic of, like an entire movement or discourse. And you're like, well, I see things clearly in this one tiny example that's how I felt about the lobster, in front of the bowl.
00;08;19;28 - 00;08;39;16
Pri
For some reason I was gonna say disgusted, but I was like, taken aback about how stupid that was and how people thought that was awesome. Like, and then it made me think and reflect back at like, I mean, we've been in hype. We're just given the history of crypto and technology that we've all lived like we've kind of seen hype cycles.
00;08;39;16 - 00;09;04;29
Pri
And again, like, I don't think this is a bubble. This is a very different situation. I noted this in my post, but like the amount of capital that's going into like Twitter, we're saying like data centers, the infrastructure, the models, the and then on top of that, at the company level, just like the capital deployment across AI companies, underlying infrastructure and an app layer, like there's nothing there's been nothing like that.
00;09;05;06 - 00;09;25;22
Pri
And even, you know, we say crypto is a bubble like that, that doesn't even the pales into comparison to what's happening now. It's like a fart. Yeah. So like it's not like this is a bubble. It definitely is. You know, again, not to sound like another overused form, but it definitely is a paradigm shift in how we work and like how people operate however it does.
00;09;25;22 - 00;09;54;28
Pri
She like whatever moment we're in for AI now? Just it provided this clarity that like to me, most people have no clue how to use it. And if you are able to show or cut through the noise that you know at least something about this technology, you were somehow already ahead of like 99.99% of people. Maybe not like the researchers at OpenAI, but like most people, have no idea how to wield the technology at all.
00;09;55;00 - 00;10;03;22
Pri
Like little like, I mean, forget your average person, but do you think that researchers. Oh, I'm not even sure they know how to use it. No. Like I'm not even convinced they do.
00;10;03;25 - 00;10;12;08
Aaron
I don't think they know how it works. I mean, they know how to maybe build it and like, wield it a little bit. But I think there's a lot of, like, mystery, like, largely untapped.
00;10;12;10 - 00;10;45;13
Pri
Yeah. I think like even where it is today, I don't think like a lot of people are adopting this technology to the extent it could be used like, and I think if you are someone who's on the internet, like the cloud bot guy or like the mobile guy, like if you're somehow able to show any modicum of like awareness of how to wield the tech like you somehow are, you know, a hero and hired off, and it just kind of made me feel like it's not that I think the cloud thing, I'm kind of picking on the cloud about thing, but it just makes me feel that we are very it's anyone's game.
00;10;45;13 - 00;11;03;08
Pri
No one knows what they're doing. And, I think the gains here are going to be much, much, much slower. And even a year ago I was like, oh my God, I was freaked out because I thought I was going to take everyone's job. I still think that. But like, I, I guess I'm like under indexing. Like, how many people know how to use a technology?
00;11;03;08 - 00;11;09;26
Pri
Like, I have friends who don't even pay for GPT. Like I'm like, okay, like what? Like you use like the I think it's.
00;11;09;28 - 00;11;13;13
Aaron
I think it's going to take some time for it to diffuse. You know, I think you.
00;11;13;16 - 00;11;18;27
Pri
Look at one time, even with experts like experts don't know how to use it.
00;11;18;27 - 00;11;43;17
Aaron
I think even the software developers, you know, I have a good friend. He just got into, prominent accelerator and, he was telling me even there, you know, the way he's been approaching, like, a genetic programing isn't widely dispersed amongst other, you know, startup founders. So if they're not, even if it's not even dispersed, they're pretty like, you can't expect your everyday worker to have it dialed in in terms of using this.
00;11;43;17 - 00;11;49;22
Aaron
So I still think it's going to be a bit slower. I think that's going to soften a lot of these these questions and issues. Personally.
00;11;49;24 - 00;12;06;13
Pri
I think we're just going to see like these superstars that are relatively nobodies that are just like cranking away on their computers, build something amazing and then just get like, acquired or, you know, picked off. And that's just how it's going to be to like so many times.
00;12;06;18 - 00;12;13;13
Aaron
And my book. Right. Like, yeah, my book got acquired by meta. I thought that was a little bit of a weird, like, weird decision.
00;12;13;15 - 00;12;16;07
Pri
What books aren't even good? Like it's not.
00;12;16;14 - 00;12;27;07
Chris
Cheap bringing the heat free. Like, how powerful was this Road to Damascus moment for you in which, like, you got struck with this cringe thunderbolt? Like, just please keep preaching here.
00;12;27;09 - 00;13;01;21
Pri
I mean, am I wrong? Like, how corny was that? I was like, who are these people in my timeline telling me that this is like, is this, you know, sticking it to Wall Street with this bull? I'm like, you guys are losers. Like, no, it's not like if you think like your little clod bot agent network is somehow making like, that much of a, economic impact on the markets, like it is making an impact insofar as, like, people are, you know, speculating on it and, you know, SaaS businesses are losing market share, whatever.
00;13;01;21 - 00;13;23;18
Pri
Like, I'm not saying it's making no impact. And Nvidia and many AI companies, they're definitely running public markets at this point. But like this notion that AI is is coming for everything and fine. It's it's it's like the little guy against the financial infrastructure. Like almost it's like what was that protest thing in Wall Street, in Battery Park back in the day after occupy.
00;13;23;20 - 00;13;35;07
Pri
Occupy it almost like this, almost like occupy moment was just like honestly made me cringe. I was like, this is pathetic. Like, I don't know if my alone in this or like, no, no.
00;13;35;07 - 00;13;59;01
Chris
No, no, no, I think you're right. Like a the lobster stuff is extremely dorky. And when you see like pictures of these meet ups, like it is just like, wow, okay. A I kind of wish I could feel these things, you know, like I'm dead inside. And so, like, maybe I'm a little jealous that, like, you know, people can get excited about things, but like the lobster costumes and the like.
00;13;59;03 - 00;14;01;25
Chris
I don't know, man. You know, like, I grew of it's.
00;14;01;25 - 00;14;05;28
Pri
Very crypto coated. Honestly. It reminds me of, like, crypto conferences.
00;14;06;00 - 00;14;27;08
Aaron
I didn't like the lobster, costume because it felt like two furry cosplay type things to me. But I didn't actually mind that much. The I mean, the lobster in front of the bowl, just like symbolic, I don't know. And that didn't that was just like another day on the internet for me. Like, I feel like your feed is going to feed you a lot more weird, like disturbing and upsetting things.
00;14;27;08 - 00;14;32;26
Aaron
So yeah, it's dorky, but dorks are dorks, you know? But there's good things about that.
00;14;33;03 - 00;15;02;03
Pri
Yeah, I'm like, I didn't even. I think they're directionally like, right. Like, you know, I've been around really community, like dorky communities where it's like, yeah, it's dorky now. But, you know, eventually this is like becomes the reality. And I fully buy into that. But for some reason, just seeing that and people like celebrating that, I was just like I was like, no, the saying it, I mean, I think also I'm snake bitten by a lot of the crypto hype cycle stuff where like, maybe I fell into it and like, this is like going to be, you know, the future.
00;15;02;03 - 00;15;15;25
Pri
I still believe that. But it's just like your timing is way off. Like, I think I'm just hard on myself because I'm like projecting my prior experiences in like various tech cycles onto this. So I think I also have my own like baggage and, and trauma related to cycles.
00;15;15;27 - 00;15;22;00
Aaron
Yeah. You don't. You got to drop your like some of the scars there pre.
00;15;22;02 - 00;15;29;26
Chris
No no no. Keep on pre. So we were you literally down in Wall Street like did you see this in person or.
00;15;29;28 - 00;15;37;18
Pri
Oh my god no I would never. Yeah. No I saw it. You saw it on your timeline too right. It was like kind of like it went viral ish. Like.
00;15;37;25 - 00;15;45;23
Chris
Yeah. Yeah. I was just curious whether it was like a real statue or someone just threw, like a plastic painted thing next to it.
00;15;45;27 - 00;15;47;15
Pri
It's a good question. I actually, I don't know.
00;15;47;16 - 00;15;55;14
Chris
I'm sure it's like plastic and ephemeral, you know, the, the statue of the little girl in bronze that they placed next to the bowl.
00;15;55;17 - 00;15;57;02
Pri
Yeah. Where is that?
00;15;57;04 - 00;16;32;15
Chris
I don't know, but the history of that. Right. State Street Bank was responsible for putting that that there. And it was because they came out of like a really nasty sexism scandal with their SGA group way back in the day. I can't involve like, I don't know, champagne and and sneakers. It was just like horrible workplace culture shit until the only reason this whole trend of like putting statues next to the bowl, even exists is because of one of like, the stodgy old trust companies just was behaving very badly and had to publicly make up for it.
00;16;32;17 - 00;16;49;21
Pri
It's actually really funny. I didn't know that. To be honest. I thought that statue was pretty. Pretty cringe too. But yeah, maybe maybe it's just just, But yeah, that's actually crazy that like the like I saw that and like, why don't we copy that and put a lobster? It's funny how this stuff materializes, but I don't know.
00;16;49;21 - 00;17;07;09
Pri
I think it just kind of was like a point of reflection where, you know, I find myself using it a lot. And the other kind of point and what I wrote was, I do believe in the k-shaped thing, at least for now. I think at some point, you know, everyone uses the tools and it becomes more ubiquitous. But for now, you're going to have like super users and then everyone else.
00;17;07;09 - 00;17;32;03
Pri
And I think that it's a little bit of a lopsided k-shaped. I think it's going to be a lot smaller at the top side of the K that's really using this, but there is serious like burnout at that level. Like I found myself sometimes when I'm in the elms, like hacking away or I'm doing multiple chats at the same time, doing multiple tasks, multiple workflows, like I do feel more cloudy in my thinking and like I didn't.
00;17;32;05 - 00;17;52;29
Pri
I'm not one of those people that, like, is susceptible to like, burnout and all that. Like, I kind of sometimes I can be dismissive of that kind of thinking, but I have felt it myself a little bit when I'm like in it too much that I'm like like my head kind of starts pounding a little bit and like, I'm like a little tired and and I'm also someone who's like chronically online.
00;17;52;29 - 00;18;16;03
Pri
So I'm like, if this bothers me, it's got a kind of bother, like normal people who aren't as online, I don't know. Do you guys feel that or is that am I like getting in my head about that? But I do feel a little bit of cloudy thinking in that I saw something. I'm like, I was telling Aaron that like last week, and I saw something this week at Harvard, Harvard published about like this concept of brain fry with using too many animals.
00;18;16;03 - 00;18;18;06
Pri
And I'm like, maybe that's what it is.
00;18;18;09 - 00;18;21;06
Aaron
You're just on phase one of your psychosis brain.
00;18;21;09 - 00;18;30;28
Pri
I don't know, I mean, I've been using it for a while. I think it's just like the extent to which I'm using it has become even more that it's like kind of.
00;18;31;01 - 00;18;34;01
Aaron
Do you think it just it just like multitasking. I mean.
00;18;34;01 - 00;18;34;28
Pri
I think it's more I think.
00;18;34;28 - 00;18;59;11
Chris
It's, I think it's context switching and the amount of different information streams you can try to simultaneously process. And like I, I experienced it a week or so ago because I went on a bender where I decided I was going to write specs from my entire, like, phase three roadmap, and I cranked like 12 specs in four days or something.
00;18;59;11 - 00;19;16;13
Chris
Absolutely preposterous. And it was across like, different, different domains and so I, you know, like and some of them were extremely complex and I was just mentally hosed. But at the same time, I was like, just just push through this, just.
00;19;16;13 - 00;19;17;08
Aaron
Do it, just do.
00;19;17;08 - 00;19;39;15
Chris
It. And so I get it at the same time. Like, this is something I always dealt with because like back when I was an operator, right. Like I ran product and I, I had to like come up with our whole product roadmap and write the specs and do all of that. But I was also a manager, you know, I'd like 40 people reporting to me.
00;19;39;17 - 00;20;10;03
Chris
And they're two totally different things. Like, you cannot design and write unless you have like hours and hours of uninterrupted time to get into the flow. And so, like, I kind of always understood the problem with context switching just because, like I had to deal with it. And so my workflow now was I largely is if I'm vibe coding, you know, if I've got my specs all queued up and it's just a matter of babysitting the bots, I'm often just reading fiction while they code like, I'm.
00;20;10;03 - 00;20;42;02
Chris
I'm just like stepping away, learning, letting them do their work, looking up every, like, couple of minutes. And it's really balancing. The other thing is like, I'll only work for one, like 1 to 2 tasks at a time. And the more time I've been spending doing this, like, the more I've been, just moving towards that pattern of realizing, you know, if you want this job right, done right, you can only, you know, like, I can vibe code and then I can do like, specs and documentation work.
00;20;42;02 - 00;20;48;18
Chris
I can't do like two implementations at the same time. I just don't quite get the quality I want out of it.
00;20;48;21 - 00;21;12;29
Aaron
Yeah, yeah, I, I agree with that. Although, Chris I do think that's going to change. I just talking to some other folks and seeing like them start building out their setups. I think that they're going to I don't know when it's going to happen. Maybe summer ish. I just think the next model upgrade, you're going to just be able to, you know, like set up a little flow that's pretty much like, describe a problem.
00;21;13;02 - 00;21;38;14
Aaron
Do that scoping. You'll be comfortable with it. Like you'll feel like it's just good enough that it's going to mostly hit the mark, like let's say like 90, 95% of the time. Double check that work and then just, you know, write the code and push to production. And so maybe that mental load piece like begins to, to dip down a little bit where it's more like you're really in like systems thinking product, you know, product management type bits, related to it.
00;21;38;16 - 00;22;01;13
Aaron
I definitely feel like you still have to kind of like watch the bots, but I do think the rest of the year will be people beginning to, like, not watch them as much. And that obviously creates like a lot of risk, which the doom slop lovers will, you know, glom onto. But I do think it will. It should like, help you like parallelize your work streams like a little bit more.
00;22;01;16 - 00;22;06;11
Chris
Yeah. Let's see if we get there. I mean, I, I assume we will write. I'm not a doubter of it, but.
00;22;06;17 - 00;22;40;25
Aaron
Maybe I'm off on the timeline related to that. But I just think that's probably like the next big hurdle. And it's also like, why going back even to the previous point to do that, you're just going to need, you know, ten extra number of tokens that you're using now. So I just think that keeps on moving vertical. And then like all that labor in between, it's like the I've been calling in my mind, like the great token replacement is just like, that's kind of what unfortunately, I think is going to happen to like a lot of these, like, you know, middle, middle management, middle like routing jobs that we have in a lot of organizations.
00;22;40;27 - 00;22;42;12
Aaron
I think that's that's the challenge.
00;22;42;14 - 00;22;48;24
Chris
Aaron, or space tokens going to become the proof of stake versus proof of work tokens.
00;22;48;26 - 00;22;50;09
Aaron
I don't know. Yeah.
00;22;50;11 - 00;22;53;20
Chris
Can I ethically do this if all my tokens are in space.
00;22;53;22 - 00;23;14;04
Aaron
But I hope so. Yeah I yeah I just I, I just feel it like, you know the like, whether using cloud code or recursive in your start using like the sub agents, like they're just consuming more and more tokens. Like, I just don't see a natural limit to that, like happening. And I just think the demand for this stuff is really going to be like, pretty much infinite.
00;23;14;06 - 00;23;27;21
Aaron
I just don't I don't see like a natural boundary for it at this point outside of like time, like you were describing. And maybe it's that pretty like maybe it's the time crunch pieces that that a little bit creating, like you feel like you're not doing enough. Like you could always do more.
00;23;27;24 - 00;23;38;23
Pri
Yeah. It could be like everyone's always like the opportunity cost of not being online is insane right now. Like, I've seen that whole, you know, line of thinking, but like, I'm like, dude, if you're like on your computer.
00;23;38;24 - 00;23;39;20
Aaron
I said.
00;23;39;22 - 00;23;54;14
Pri
Yeah, I mean, I think it's like it's like people are just like, you can do so much. It's like, why wouldn't you? And like, even like I, you know, I'll just. Do you know where that isn't even work I should be doing? But I'm like, I can just do this faster than like someone else. I'll just do it like it's the.
00;23;54;14 - 00;24;09;12
Pri
So it ends up being this thing where you're just like, well, I mean, I can just do it, so I'll just do it really quickly, like and then, but then you do that across like, you know, whatever 15 different tasks and it's like kind of tiring, but it's not like hard to, to output it. It's it's like weird.
00;24;09;12 - 00;24;14;16
Pri
It's like it's actually you're not thinking you're just kind of in it. Prompting, getting the best output.
00;24;14;18 - 00;24;16;13
Aaron
I think that's like a grind set though.
00;24;16;13 - 00;24;46;09
Pri
Yeah, it's more of a grind set probably. But like I just think of normies. I'm like a lot of my norm. My, my normie friends are talking about getting dumb phones like they don't want to be on smart phones any more. They're like, I'm trying to be like, are they actually going to swear to God? I have friends who are in South Brooklyn, not far from where you live that like, want that phone like daylight or whatever, and a lot of that, because a lot of their friends have it because, like, they don't want to be in front of phones, in front of their kids and whatever they themselves think it's healthier to do.
00;24;46;09 - 00;24;47;24
Pri
You know, which phone I'm talking about?
00;24;47;26 - 00;24;56;02
Aaron
To me, this feels like, you know, dieting from the 80s where everybody's saying that they're going to eat less like sweet stuff, and then they just keep on eating the sweet stuff.
00;24;56;04 - 00;24;57;19
Pri
I completely agree, like, I don't.
00;24;57;20 - 00;25;11;23
Aaron
Think that that like, I just I think it's just like some weird, like, aspirational, like nonsense that isn't going to play out in practice. So let me know if they actually do buy those phones. Maybe they do for you. They're they've actually bought them.
00;25;11;26 - 00;25;16;21
Pri
Yeah. I mean that's part of the reason. Like they want to get it is like they're seeing other parents with them.
00;25;16;23 - 00;25;22;10
Aaron
This feels like the like new luxury belief of, of of elite workers.
00;25;22;12 - 00;25;30;16
Pri
So yeah, it definitely is like a, you know, certain class of people living in South Brooklyn that probably like, are doing this.
00;25;30;19 - 00;25;37;18
Aaron
And supporting the destruction of data centers and complaining when their AI, agents aren't doing enough work at, at their office in like two years.
00;25;37;21 - 00;25;53;08
Pri
Possibly. I mean, I do get the thing of like like, I mean, I think about it for myself. Like, if I'm lucky enough to have kids, I'm going to be like, I like, look at my phone all the time. Like, I think I'm going to be like, it's gonna be really hard for me to wean off my phone if I don't want to be on my phone or on my kid that much.
00;25;53;15 - 00;25;53;24
Aaron
Yeah, it.
00;25;53;24 - 00;25;58;07
Chris
Is for you. When they fall down the stairs and the screaming like you got to get off your phone to twice.
00;25;58;11 - 00;26;11;01
Pri
Do you guys remember that guy? Like on it went viral about he was a dad and he was just saying how he like really only wanted to spend like five minutes with his kids a day. Yeah, I might post that post.
00;26;11;01 - 00;26;12;00
Aaron
Yeah.
00;26;12;02 - 00;26;18;12
Pri
And I literally think it was because he had a phone addiction. Like I don't even think it was like anything else. I think he probably just wanted to be on his phone.
00;26;18;15 - 00;26;44;07
Chris
Yeah. To to like be considerate and put that out. And just like that, that is definitely a deeper impulse. But I'll also say every single parent on the planet has had that thought in some form or another. It quickly vanishes because your kids don't let you. But believe me, every single person who's ever had a child is sort of like, oh my God, what would time be like if I didn't have a kid?
00;26;44;11 - 00;26;47;12
Pri
I probably would just be spending it a lot on your phone.
00;26;47;14 - 00;26;58;08
Aaron
Right? And like, you know, I kind of pulled the numbers because even to this point you were raising before, I was just like, is this a real trend? Or is this just like some new form of.
00;26;58;10 - 00;26;59;15
Pri
Like, virtue signaling?
00;26;59;15 - 00;27;20;10
Aaron
Yeah, yeah. It's not really like virtuous. So I don't know if that's the right way to describe it, but like some new form of social signaling and if you like, break it down to Gen Z, like there's they're spending almost like nine hours a day on their, on their phones. So like, more than a work like a, you know, traditional work workday like just doomscrolling.
00;27;20;12 - 00;27;21;25
Pri
So and it's not, not that far.
00;27;21;28 - 00;27;40;08
Aaron
It's not going down. Yeah. Maybe maybe you're there but like, but I mean, it just doesn't seem like it's bearing out in the numbers. Doesn't mean that doesn't change at some point. You know, like I'm assuming like if we pulled up, like consumption of sugar, it probably ran up for a long time before there was like a really big push back to it.
00;27;40;08 - 00;27;42;27
Aaron
Maybe this is just the beginning of it, but I don't know.
00;27;42;28 - 00;27;52;28
Chris
Let's get, let's get really performative about this. And do you remember the famous picture of Daniel Day-Lewis on his dumb phone on the subway?
00;27;53;01 - 00;27;54;10
Pri
Wait, no.
00;27;54;13 - 00;28;02;28
Chris
That was like a whole thing years ago. Anyway, let's let's make t shirts of that and just wear that around while carrying our iPhones in our pocket.
00;28;03;00 - 00;28;05;20
Pri
Yeah, that would be extra performative. Yeah. We should.
00;28;05;23 - 00;28;20;18
Chris
Everyone will. Thank you for, your lionizing, a smartphone, refusing icon. And meanwhile, like, you've got the latest iPhone but safely away and you'll stare at it whenever you want.
00;28;20;21 - 00;28;24;14
Pri
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to look that up and give you a t shirt with that.
00;28;24;17 - 00;28;27;20
Chris
I think with you, I do think the birthday's coming up. Tree.
00;28;27;20 - 00;28;29;21
Pri
So sweet.
00;28;29;23 - 00;28;47;26
Aaron
I do think you're like as these systems get more proactive and are better able to like summarize like as the you're able to consume more tokens and they're able to handle those tasks like just like reviewing like media feeds or news feeds or financial feeds. And you're just getting like alerted a little bit more or it's summarized to you.
00;28;47;26 - 00;29;08;11
Aaron
I do think people will kind of chill out and feel less of a need to be online. Like, I think everybody's just going to get like their personal feeds of not just media, right? Like what we saw with like TikTok and, and the other social media platforms, but just kind of everything I agree. And then you'll probably have more control to just like just describe what that feels like to you.
00;29;08;11 - 00;29;28;13
Aaron
Like, do you want it like stilted? Do you want it like sanitized and neutralized? Right. Like you'll have a bit more control to kind of do that. It's kind of like that, that these because they're all AI algorithms, right? Like that are powering these platforms. They're just getting democratized in some sort of way. So you'll be able to really define it as like a layer on top instead of being like subjected to it.
00;29;28;15 - 00;29;47;07
Aaron
So and I think, you know, with the memory systems like emerging and like you giving it feedback over time, like you'll just, I think, feel like you have a bit more control. And I think the, you know, like the casino slot machine type mechanics that are everywhere now just will become a little less effective because of that, because the bots don't they don't care about that.
00;29;47;07 - 00;29;49;04
Aaron
Right? So I do think.
00;29;49;04 - 00;29;50;04
Pri
I think you're right 100%.
00;29;50;05 - 00;29;55;25
Aaron
To be like helpful here. I don't know how fast that happens, but my gut tells me that's where it's going to land.
00;29;55;27 - 00;29;59;26
Chris
I love how bullish you are in the great buffer theory of AI.
00;29;59;29 - 00;30;00;17
Aaron
Yeah, I think I.
00;30;00;22 - 00;30;25;06
Pri
I am too, though actually I actually do believe that. I mean, I found myself doing it already now, like I'm prompting me alums to like, summarize things for me and like create the output of like how I want to distill information already. So it's like the fact that that won't be productized or how everyone interacts with it, because, I mean, in a way, I think we all can then I mean, I don't know if we all can do it, but like, I think we all sort of agree that, like, a lot of these feeds are like pollution.
00;30;25;08 - 00;30;37;12
Pri
And so, like if you can kind of smoke, you know, if you had smog, like if you're able to basically clean that or, you know, convert that into clean air, like, why wouldn't you do that?
00;30;37;14 - 00;30;43;08
Chris
So you're saying like we're LA in the 80s, that's what the internet is. That's what. You're absolutely right. Yeah, yeah, yeah okay.
00;30;43;12 - 00;30;48;07
Aaron
It's it's hazy. It's an, it's an info fog war you know.
00;30;48;09 - 00;30;56;29
Pri
Yeah. My, my my feed is straight up just like disinformation. Like it's like I can't it's too late now though. It's just. It is what it is.
00;30;57;01 - 00;31;08;29
Aaron
No it's not. You can put a buffer you can on your industrial media stacks. You can put some like, you know, some scrubbers in there pretty. And you'll just get news, you know, like it.
00;31;09;02 - 00;31;09;08
Pri
So.
00;31;09;08 - 00;31;10;07
Aaron
Fatalistic.
00;31;10;09 - 00;31;25;28
Chris
Does this news even exist? Like I feel there's not even, like, any news on this war going on other than their interest rates of Hormuz are closed and oil prices are up. Yeah. How does the entire coverage shifted to like one singular economic aspect of this conflict?
00;31;25;29 - 00;31;42;25
Aaron
Because there's nothing else to talk about, right? They're just like, you know, hitting all these strategic sites and then you know that that's the big issue. Yeah. I mean, I check like the Times or Wall Street Journal and other traditional media outlets and they're, they're, they're struggling to to put together a story here. You can just feel it.
00;31;42;27 - 00;31;44;13
Chris
Like, well, there's also.
00;31;44;16 - 00;31;45;23
Aaron
They're struggling.
00;31;45;25 - 00;32;11;02
Chris
All those all their reporting is guarded. We learned how to heavily censor, war output like, you know, in Afghanistan and Iraq War like, this is, you know, a decades long project to, isolate war from, like, public knowledge. You know, let's be real about it. Like, a lot of this is intentional.
00;32;11;04 - 00;32;27;26
Aaron
Yeah, like even longer than that. Chris Pratt from, you know, Vietnam era, right, where they saw the public pushback on it. But you're definitely seeing some of those old characters, you know, cropping back up. Right. Didn't we see, Condoleezza Rice, like, exiting the white House?
00;32;27;28 - 00;32;28;28
Pri
Neocons are.
00;32;28;28 - 00;32;36;04
Aaron
Back. I don't yeah, I don't know how frequent that is, but it feels like they're, like that. That influence is is still pretty strong.
00;32;36;06 - 00;32;47;16
Chris
I'm try I like I was like, running through the list of neocons in my head and like so many of them are dead, is like, Madeleine Albright still around or like we had to look at like, Condoleezza Rice generation of neocons.
00;32;47;19 - 00;32;52;13
Aaron
It's tricky because every time I hear her speak, she's just she's a very impressive person, you know.
00;32;52;15 - 00;32;57;10
Pri
She is. She is, she is she is pretty impressive. I will say she's always better.
00;32;57;13 - 00;33;01;21
Chris
You can be impressive in and still, pointed in the wrong direction.
00;33;01;28 - 00;33;03;24
Aaron
Don't disagree. Yeah. Don't disagree.
00;33;03;24 - 00;33;12;23
Chris
You know, I, I wonder if, like, her and her and Rubio give each other the nod whenever they see each other. It's like, yeah, we know what's actually off.
00;33;12;25 - 00;33;29;18
Aaron
I mean, that's like the fog of war argument, right? Like there they there's like, intent to like, kind of create that fog of war. So folks that want to accomplish things politically can accomplish them politically. Maybe they have better information. Get get your buffers in place. It'll be good for you.
00;33;29;20 - 00;33;31;23
Pri
Okay. Well I kind of I sorry, I just I then you're.
00;33;31;23 - 00;33;32;22
Chris
Going to and you're going to.
00;33;32;22 - 00;33;40;10
Aaron
Have to deal with the actual hard challenge, which is, you know, what will fill the void of not spending as much time on your phone. So just gets.
00;33;40;10 - 00;33;55;27
Chris
Deeper and deeper into the stack. Aaron. That's the answer. Like spend less time at the surface and just go further and further, like start rock inference. Start like, you know, figuring out how to train your own models. Like just keep going down.
00;33;56;00 - 00;34;06;19
Pri
Through can never end. Do we want to talk at all about like anthropic and open AI and Department of War, etc.?
00;34;06;24 - 00;34;31;16
Aaron
Well, you know, I read about this when I was a academic, this notion like code as well. I think it came up in crypto quite a bit. They would use more code is law. I feel like this is just like the next chapter in that where I do think like, corporation realized that their software, their, their code can really not just impact and deliver like a service, but can actually like shape the rules related to other things, like adjacent to it.
00;34;31;18 - 00;34;53;08
Aaron
And it feels like that's the crux of the argument. And, you know, there's no really good answer. And I think there's good arguments on both sides. Right? Like if you're building something you don't want to necessarily for it to be used for really bad, gnarly, things. At the same time, you know, folks that are buying that software don't necessarily want to be subjected to your rules and constitution.
00;34;53;08 - 00;35;11;03
Aaron
Right. And if you look at like, at least how anthropic has done it, and I think there's parts of this that are quite admirable. Like they, they're trying to like imbue like a rules and like a framework around their system because they know it's powerful. It's not exactly like the US Constitution. Right. So there's not perfect alignment on these things.
00;35;11;03 - 00;35;34;27
Aaron
And so I think it's really this, this, tension between, you know, algorithmic control that's coming increasingly from software companies and services, mostly from the Valley and, you know, meatspace bureaucratic rules that that kind of guide the government. So it's pretty fascinating. I don't think this type of stuff is going to go away, though. I think it's only going to get worse and worse, like these types of questions.
00;35;34;27 - 00;35;50;19
Aaron
And there's it's one of these areas there's just like no good answer. And if you actually like get rid of like the hype and, you know, the rhetoric related to it, like there's in my mind at least, like reasonable positions on all sides here makes it a real toss up, like on the right thing to do. It's tricky, tricky stuff.
00;35;50;22 - 00;36;15;24
Chris
To exist is to be complicit. And even if you set out to, do the right thing, you're ultimately, I think, going to become corrupted or you're setting yourself up from a fall for a fall. And then there's, you know, this whole whole matter of like how much you actually virtue signaling versus, you know, really drawing a hard line here because let's be real, right?
00;36;15;26 - 00;36;39;15
Chris
Anthropic sits in Maven. Maven is Palantir is product. Palantir is directing a lot of this, war effort targeting, you know, data mining, etc., etc. and so on the one hand. Sure, like, Dario can, you know, throw his hands up and say, we don't want this, and that's fine. But at the same time, he's already signed deals.
00;36;39;18 - 00;37;03;27
Chris
Like, what the hell do you think Palantir does? Like, you signed a deal with talent here. You know what you're getting into. You know what I mean? Like, so completely. This is one I feel like the Valley in particular, but corporate America in general, handled is like, handled this whole, topic of like alignment with issues and identity politics really, really poorly.
00;37;04;00 - 00;37;32;13
Chris
And this was something I watched really closely, I want to say, back in 2016, right when I was running, brand marketing communications and, you know, like, oh, Mint mobile's like a pretty damn vanilla, it's like the millennial saver brand, but like Ultramobile, right? Was a product first generation immigrants. And so like when we had that whole Trump go around and all of these brands were like taking certain positions and they had to walk them back.
00;37;32;13 - 00;37;57;10
Chris
I just looked at that at the time and I was like, that is a goddamn like mess. I don't want to touch this with a ten foot pole. I think, like, you're just setting yourself up to look foolish in the same way that, you know, like Silicon Valley, like with this American dynamism bullshit. Right? Like you really, I don't know, I hold people accountable.
00;37;57;16 - 00;38;19;20
Chris
You know, if you say one thing and then you flip flop, the second the administration changes and suddenly you have a whole new set of politics. Like, I see that right through that. And like, I remember, you know, and so to some degree, I feel like products and services should never step into that lane because, hey, it's not your job.
00;38;19;23 - 00;38;42;20
Chris
B, I don't really know if the consumer want you, you know, stepping out into that. Like, sure, it works for certain things and it allows you to like develop niche communities, etc., etc. but like that's more of an organic process versus, you know, all of a sudden you're just out, making these statements and, you know, you're trying to align yourself with whatever's in vogue.
00;38;42;22 - 00;39;00;13
Chris
I realize I'm ranting a bit here, and anthropic is dealing with more consequential issues, you know, but like, the Valley is just done a terrible job of this. And they always cave. They always cave to money. And so it's like, why do you even get yourselves in these messes to begin with?
00;39;00;16 - 00;39;29;17
Aaron
Chris, I thought that those are really great points to me. There's also just like a deep structural point, which is, you know, who's making these decisions. So you have on the one hand, you know, a corporation which has some governance over it. It's like a shareholders and a board. So it's like very top down, controlled versus, you know, all the rules that I'm sure guide everything that happens across the economy, including, you know, national defense related concerns, which are just just that democratic rules.
00;39;29;20 - 00;39;52;24
Aaron
And I think that that's the big tension here. It's like putting aside whether or not it was wise for them to do it, you know, even if it was wise for them to do it. You know, why do we want to have a structure where there's really no input into the making of those rules? And so I just think that that, you know, really strikes me as deeply concerning unless we kind of address that issue, I don't actually know how to address that issue.
00;39;52;24 - 00;40;09;01
Aaron
But to me, that that's one of the biggest concerns that I have here. It's like even if I thought Dario and the rest of the team and anthropic, you know, were perfect people and they made perfect decisions all the time, like, why should they be the only ones making that decision without any input from the rest of the public on these?
00;40;09;01 - 00;40;25;22
Aaron
Like, super consequential decisions? And I think that that in part is what I think undergirded some of the pushback here. You know, like, why did you know the Department of Defense or, sorry, Department of War, I guess now, you know, like, why did they have to go and get like clearance from a corporation as to whether or not they can do something?
00;40;25;25 - 00;40;53;05
Aaron
I just think that's that's a kind of the rubber that or that they're really, like the root of the tension here. So it's, it's definitely a weird one, but I think it's going to keep on coming. And, you know, this again, always points more towards like, open source models. Not to get like even more crypto, but like, you know, having broad based stakeholder governance through things like tokens or possibly DAOs, like I think all that stuff would help kind of navigate some of these situations, in the long run.
00;40;53;07 - 00;41;18;10
Pri
You know, that like just speaking of like the politics in corporate America, like it relation to this issue, do you felt like the subscriptions went down like 200% or something and subscription rate? I saw that like this. Really? Yeah. As a result of the deal thing. And then like apparently like anthropic spiked up like 51% or something, which I didn't know people actually clocked that stuff, but I guess they do.
00;41;18;13 - 00;41;22;17
Chris
This was a Washington Post moment for AI, subscriptions.
00;41;22;19 - 00;41;23;23
Pri
I guess.
00;41;23;25 - 00;41;28;19
Chris
Interesting. I mean, I got rid of my ChatGPT script subscription because I don't need it.
00;41;28;21 - 00;41;38;18
Pri
Yeah, I might I might actually get rid of that too. I just, I like using it and chat and claw mostly. So it's like I don't, I don't know if I need it anymore.
00;41;38;21 - 00;41;52;00
Chris
Yeah. I mean that's where I got to back in November. I do find myself, like I'll use an LLM a couple times a week. More often than not, it's for, to look up a recipe and, like, I just use free Gemini, you know?
00;41;52;02 - 00;41;55;21
Pri
Yeah. You don't need, like, the biggest brain for that.
00;41;55;23 - 00;42;15;02
Aaron
I mean, that's definitely happening. I feel like the, frontier models are just not needed for those, like, everyday type tasks, like the stuff that came out, I don't know, mid last year handles that really well. And it's it's getting more and more reasonably priced. So I think we're really only a couple quarters away till that's all. Like I like free.
00;42;15;04 - 00;42;36;08
Aaron
I do think there's been a couple analogies. I think Sam Altman seems to like them too. Like I like electricity and it feels partially right to me where you're all this stuff is just going to get so commoditized so fast, and maybe that's a piece of it prior to those, you know, cancellations, right. It's going to compete more on brand and values and all those other bets.
00;42;36;11 - 00;42;55;13
Pri
Yeah. Like just like any other corporate brand. He said he was at some conference saying that he thinks like I should be metered, like, gas and other utilities, which I don't think was very popular on some of the retweets of them that I saw. I don't know if you guys caught that, but it just reminded me of the electricity analogy a little bit.
00;42;55;15 - 00;43;20;20
Chris
It's I mean, it already is for me. You know, I do 99.9% of my consumption via API and so I'm fine with that model. But I don't know. I Sam really needs to, kill his ego and find a face for that company. That's not Sam. You know, like, anything that comes out of his mouth, I think is now going to be rightfully, due to a degree of skepticism.
00;43;20;22 - 00;43;30;11
Chris
I saw some of the commentary around, like, his, recent communications sounding very misanthropic. No pun intended there.
00;43;30;11 - 00;43;31;06
Pri
Yeah, it's funny to.
00;43;31;09 - 00;43;59;12
Chris
Imply that, I mean, remember he was talking about, like, the amount of resources a human brain needs to reach development, and it was just like, dude, dude, come on, man, like, please don't go there. I mean, that's that's one of those things where, like, I, I really am nervous about the front tier models, their leadership, you know, level and how those people think, you know, anthropic.
00;43;59;14 - 00;44;22;28
Chris
I mean, I'll just say it again, like, effective altruism scares the shit out of me. And it's only going to take, you know, a couple decades of, like, that movement and that thought process, like twisting and turning until like data side, the best way to do the most good is to reduce the population, because then you have fewer people you have to solve problems for, and you can solve those problems more maximally.
00;44;23;01 - 00;44;37;05
Chris
You know what I mean? Like I need to see all sorts of dark road. This stuff can go down. And I really would prefer, you know, that we have like a wider range of frontier models and people behind them than we do today.
00;44;37;07 - 00;44;56;00
Pri
I mean, that will change, though, you know, right now it's like we're calling it a flavor of the week, but it feels like it's like OpenAI versus entropic, but like Gemini, like, there's so many there's potential open models that are like, I just feel like all this stuff is going to it's just going to be competitive. But yeah, right now it really feels like a duopoly.
00;44;56;01 - 00;45;08;02
Chris
It's really sad when you get to think to yourself, okay, well, we still have Google and they want 10 billion people to be watching YouTube. So therefore there will be okay. You know, I mean it's just like, oh God.
00;45;08;04 - 00;45;25;26
Pri
It's just this stuff so expensive. So it's like really limited to at the top. It's kind of we talked about before, like when do you remember like Oracle was funding OpenAI, which is funding this Microsoft. And it was just kind of like this web of like seven companies funding each other. And I'm sure that's still going on. But it's like there's only it's kind of small at the top.
00;45;25;26 - 00;45;28;19
Pri
There's just not enough. Anyway.
00;45;28;21 - 00;45;45;00
Chris
Are you worried about the Ellison family's piling debt load in Oracle's debt issues and the fact that, the Ellison Trust is personally guaranteeing the purchase of all this legacy media free? Do you feel like the debt, the debt farm is ticking on them?
00;45;45;06 - 00;45;57;26
Pri
I actually, so I've only, like, seen the headline there, but, like, they'll get through it. I'm like, I feel like they're like savvy enough to not like get over levered and like kill this whole thing that they spent years doing.
00;45;57;29 - 00;46;06;07
Chris
I don't know, I kind of feel like taking a huge debt load to buy. Media is like fighting a land war in Asia. Like, yeah, they don't want to do it, you know?
00;46;06;07 - 00;46;09;02
Pri
Yeah, yeah. What were they thinking doing that.
00;46;09;04 - 00;46;17;17
Chris
They wanted to control MTV. I don't know if they wanted to make everyone hate CBS news. Who knows?
00;46;17;19 - 00;46;28;22
Pri
Way. Do you know what I'm excited to watch this weekend? Speaking of just wealthy people, is that Murdoch documentary on Netflix? It's coming out tonight.
00;46;28;25 - 00;46;32;03
Aaron
Oh, I didn't even hear about that. Wow. You're like, it's called on it.
00;46;32;06 - 00;46;46;00
Pri
I actually said, like, I went on Netflix, like, I don't know, last week, and I saw it and it was like, set reminder. And I'm like, hell yeah, I'm going to set the reminder to watch this. It's called dynasty and it's just like a documentary on the succession battles of like the kids.
00;46;46;03 - 00;47;02;05
Chris
I don't think I've ever met anyone but you, pre, who is excited for a televised documentary about, you know, trust in probate court battles. Yeah. Stories maybe like next. Next time you'll be telling me. Oh, my God, there's a must see Delaware Chancery TV coming up.
00;47;02;06 - 00;47;10;26
Aaron
I'm just going to watch that, Italian team in that World Cup. Who's crushing, the, the American team. So that's what I'm excited about.
00;47;10;28 - 00;47;12;24
Chris
Yeah. New Jersey's team.
00;47;12;27 - 00;47;14;14
Pri
With the World Cups going on.
00;47;14;21 - 00;47;19;12
Aaron
The world baseball Classic. Yeah, the World Cup of baseball, the World Baseball Classic. Classic? Yeah.
00;47;19;15 - 00;47;40;08
Chris
That's like another thing I feel strangely disconnected from because I think, it's, like, what is on ship? Like, I can't stream. And so I just see highlights of the people. Oh, my God, this is so gonzo. And then you're like, okay, I don't know. I do feel kind of like I was missing out on this because I am I mean, I'm in the mood for baseball to come back.
00;47;40;10 - 00;47;41;19
Chris
I'm getting that itch.
00;47;41;22 - 00;47;50;15
Aaron
Yeah, that's much more fun. Bloodsport. Pretty than the, the children fighting over like their parents empire. But I guess that's, that's your sport.
00;47;50;18 - 00;48;05;11
Pri
Yeah, that is my sport. I guess you could say is. I mean, it's just interesting to follow that whole case because he's, like, a very private guy. Do you do want to touch crypto at all? Like, there's been some crypto news like the Ethereum staking ETF.
00;48;05;11 - 00;48;29;19
Aaron
And to me, the big stories that I saw, I was like, I don't know if you guys saw that somebody tried to swap the cow swap like $50 million into I think I, I and it yeah, it just and you know Stani clarified this right that the user had to approve that transaction and they did you know those types of like fat finger mistakes I think, you know, really just show how much how much further we kind of need to go.
00;48;29;19 - 00;48;50;13
Aaron
So, to get this stuff like at operating at scale. And then at the same time, you know, you got like Jamie Dimon purportedly, you know, still banging the drum that he's like all in on this. And increasingly, I wonder if that's because I think Wall Street knows like an aggregate that like the Valley's kind of coming for finance.
00;48;50;13 - 00;49;12;28
Aaron
And they want to make sure that they're stewarding the development of this technology a little bit harder. Like, I wonder if that's really like the sub story that's happening with it. So I still find that like dichotomy pretty interesting. And then I don't know if you guys saw this, but the X 402 transactions, which is like a big meta and meme, at least on Onex and other social media channels.
00;49;12;28 - 00;49;22;25
Aaron
It just seems like that volume has gone down a bit. So kind of curious to see if that picks up. That's just like, something I'm monitoring. That's a situation. I'm on a monitoring there.
00;49;22;27 - 00;49;35;06
Pri
But one thing that you were saying with the second value thing for, finance is like, have you guys seen an announcement around X money and would be like, I mean, he really is trying to make everything up. I mean, we assume that's going to be like crypto based, right?
00;49;35;09 - 00;49;39;25
Aaron
Oh no. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what their plan is there. I think they've kept that like kind of under wraps.
00;49;39;27 - 00;49;43;21
Pri
Yeah. I can't tell if it was like an announcement for any plan. But I was just like, oh, interesting.
00;49;43;23 - 00;49;57;08
Aaron
The one question I have is like, how many people are still working at Twitter? Like, how important is that in the new, you know, like conglomerate that that Elon put together, like how much of his time is still there, who's kind of managing that ship?
00;49;57;10 - 00;50;05;01
Pri
Because it kind of runs itself. Right. It's so like they're adding new products or like some products and like making it better.
00;50;05;03 - 00;50;08;23
Aaron
Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I think it, it could get a lot better, right.
00;50;08;26 - 00;50;11;14
Pri
Yeah. It could. I just don't think they care enough.
00;50;11;17 - 00;50;21;06
Aaron
It's kind of my point, right. Like is it just on autopilot now. And there's just like a team dealing with, tons of issues that I'm sure crop up. I just don't know.
00;50;21;08 - 00;50;26;26
Chris
The idea that anyone would want to let Elon be their bank is insane to me.
00;50;26;29 - 00;50;41;03
Aaron
But it's not just Elon, right? Like Palmer Luckey is setting up like a stablecoin based bank, like a lot of the kind of second, second or third startups of some of these big tech CEOs have been kind of crypto related, which is super interesting.
00;50;41;05 - 00;51;05;04
Chris
Yeah, there's I think there's differences here. You know, there's like to me, the idea that like the Ex Everything app, I mean it's just such a dated idea. It's like, oh cool. You want to catch up to WeChat 20 years ago, except at the same time, like you're forward looking product with grok, you've demonstrated that no one can, like, actually trust as a source of truth because you tip your scales on it.
00;51;05;06 - 00;51;26;26
Chris
You know, you tip the scales over like issues. You care about to the point where, like, why on earth would I want you to be my banker? You know, like it was just to me? There's such a disconnect between like, the actions of Elon and the actions of, like, someone with a fiduciary duty to, like, just frickin manage, you know, transact your money for you.
00;51;26;28 - 00;51;45;14
Chris
Yeah, it's fair, but on the Palmer Luckey stuff, my only comment on that one is like, for the love of God, can you stop naming should after Lord of the rings guys like, you know, for fuck's sake, man, I don't even know what the name of it is, but it sounds like that. What's the Hexa bougie grocery store in LA?
00;51;45;14 - 00;51;45;28
Chris
Aaron.
00;51;46;02 - 00;51;47;13
Pri
Yeah. One. Yeah.
00;51;47;16 - 00;51;58;08
Chris
Yeah. It's like, for Christ's sake, if you can't even pronounce the name of the thing, it shouldn't be the name of a thing like. Great. You ready? Token one. Congratulations. Like, there are other books out there, and none of them should be brand names.
00;51;58;10 - 00;52;04;21
Pri
That's true. You could get a little more creative trying to think we're talking about his, like, acquisition of that gaming thing.
00;52;04;24 - 00;52;10;09
Chris
No, that's some other thing he's got going on where he's trying to reboot like old console games.
00;52;10;11 - 00;52;34;05
Pri
Yeah, that was like announced this week, right? I was like confused. I kind of just like let that story happen. But I was like, what? He's like, yeah, the retro gaming venture mod retro, 64 console original and 64 cartridges. Like he's like investing in that now or bought that. Like, I didn't clock this, but that was a thing that happened this week with him.
00;52;34;08 - 00;52;36;04
Pri
Just speaking of it, I'm sorry.
00;52;36;06 - 00;52;55;01
Chris
No, no. Like the thing I don't get about those is like that was like a third of like, Kickstarters, you know, like people have tried this as well and like, for crying out loud, just like type in, you know, like Zelda emulator or something, and you'll find the stupid web page, like running it in Java. Like there have been a million efforts at this.
00;52;55;03 - 00;53;12;12
Chris
It's like freely available. And then there've been a shit ton of commercial attempts at this, and I don't think any of them really reach scale. So I don't get why why someone wants to take yet another crack at this. But, you know, the guy's done well in life. And if he wants to, like, have passion projects or even be a kid again.
00;53;12;12 - 00;53;13;18
Chris
Yeah. My money.
00;53;13;20 - 00;53;27;15
Pri
Yeah, I, I know, I just, I just was surprised to see that I'm like, what? But anyways, should we should we wrap up? Guys, I feel like we're just now rambling about random stuff. Let's wrap anything else we want to leave it on.
00;53;27;17 - 00;53;31;12
Chris
I just want the models back. Give me some good weather.
00;53;31;14 - 00;53;36;16
Aaron
Yeah, some good weather and some, some good, non quantized models. Sounds great.
00;53;36;19 - 00;53;37;20
Chris
Exactly.
00;53;37;22 - 00;54;01;01
Pri
On that note, welcome to Net Society. It's me and Chris today talking all things tech, culture, AI, crypto and more. Just a quick reminder these thoughts and opinions are own and none of our employer and none of this is financial advice.
00;54;01;04 - 00;54;01;16
Pri
For.