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In this episode of the Wealthy Woman Lawyer® podcast, I interviewed Josie Harris-Walton, the owner and managing partner at The Walton Firm, and manager of the law firm's corporate and tax division about all things taxes, including the launch of her new service to help non-attorney tax professionals navigate the increasingly complex U.S. tax code.
What if you could hang out with successful women lawyers, ask them about growing their firms, managing resources like time, team and systems, mastering money issues, and more; then take an insight or two to help you build a wealth-generating law firm? That’s what we do each week on the Wealthy Woman Lawyer podcast. Hosted by Davina Frederick, founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer –– every episode is an in-depth look at how to think like a CEO, attract clients who you love to serve (and will pay you on time), and create a profitable, sustainable firm you love. The goal is to give you the information you need to scale your law firm business from 6 to 7 figures in gross annual revenue so you can fully fund, and still have time to enjoy, the lifestyle of your dreams.
Davina Frederick: Hi, everyone.
Welcome back to the wealthy
woman lawyer podcast. I'm your
host, Davina Frederick. And I am
so happy to have you here today.
And I'm super happy to have a
friend of mine and guests that
I'm going to introduce you to in
a moment. Her name is Josie
Harris Walton, and she's the
owner and manager of the Walton
firm, where she manages the law
firms corporate and Tax
Division. The Walton firm is an
Atlanta based law firm with a
highly specialized tax and
corporate law attorneys who
handle cases regarding tax
controversy, tax litigation, tax
resolution disputes against the
Internal Revenue Service and
Georgia Department of Revenue.
And corporate law needs
strategically, thoroughly and
worry free. I can't imagine a
tax attorney that can guarantee
worry free, but you probably
help your clients get there as
close as they can get right.
Yes, definitely. So Josie, I'm
so happy to have you here today.
Welcome.
Unknown: Thank you. Thank you.
I'm so happy to be here. Thank
you so much.
Davina Frederick: So why don't
you I give a brief introduction
of your firm, I wanted everybody
to get a sense of your practice
area, you are a real unicorn. In
your industry, aren't you? You
are a black woman, who is a I
mean, already, statistically,
there are not enough black women
who are practicing law, but to
be a tax attorney really put you
in an area where there probably
very few black women. So tell
me, tell me, tell me about that.
Unknown: So I mean, I you know,
I wanted to be an attorney, even
a tax attorney when I was seven
years old, well, attorney, but
like me, and my mom was a she's
an accountant. I tell everybody,
she says she's, she's the
protector professional. So I've
always been around taxes and
things of that nature. So I
didn't really know what I want.
I don't want to do corporate.
And I, I I joined a federal
income tax class, and I've been
hooked ever since I still do
corporate work as well. But tax
is my baby. So I love it. I
enjoy it. And people are like,
are you serious? I'm like, Yes,
I literally enjoy going through
the code, and kind of figuring
out what's going to happen with
the case. And so it's really, I
you know, I know a lot of tax
black tax attorneys, right, I
have a group of Atlanta, black
Texas, Association of Black tax
attorneys, right. And it's about
10 of us in that group. But
nobody knows. Nobody knows about
it. So it's like everyone's
like, Oh, my God, you the first
black tax attorney I've met
really, I'm like, really? I know
a lot of them. And I have two
friends who as one was in
Florida, and and one is an
Alabama so yeah, yeah, a couple
of them. But a lot of people
don't. So yeah,
Davina Frederick: I think
statistically, it's rare, like
so, you know, but certainly it
makes a lot of sense for you to
know a lot of other a lot of
other people who are doing what
you're doing, and especially
other people of color and women
of color. But I think you're
also rare among attorneys
because of your love for taxes.
I would say that most attorneys
I meet speak with they're like
taxes, oh, my goodness, oh my
god, it's wonderful to have
people like you love taxes,
because the rest of us need
people like you to help us
because if you're a business
owner, you're going to be
dealing with tax issues. And
it's very, it's one of the most
of it's one thing that I see
crop up again, and again, and
again, with small business
owners, the how they're trying
to figure out how to be a
business owner. And they forget
about taxes, and they're not
really sure how to how to
navigate that it feels so scary.
So tell me what, tell me what is
like working with your clients
and kind of how you serve your
clients, Who's your ideal
client? How do you serve them?
And how do you help them sort of
get through a tax problem?
worryfree? Well,
Unknown: my ideal client right
now, which has shifted is tax
professional. So because of
course I love tax person,
because my mom was a tax
professional, that I've moved
kind of into the tax
professional realm where I see
that, you know, it was about
maybe five or six years ago, I
started getting tax
professionals when it came to
due diligence, because of
course, you know, with the IRS
tax professionals have a due
diligence they have they have to
maintain regarding if they're
filing certain, you know, tax
returns, and so and getting
certain declines or getting
certain credits. So I kind of
skimmed into that start learning
it and actually love the due
diligence process of them. And
then also I just love tax
professionals anyway, and so
they became my clients. So
pretty much an ideal client is a
tax professional. On one
spectrum, our tax professional
who you know, may want to
understand the due diligence
process that doesn't understand
and stay in compliance. That's
the main thing standard
compliance with the IRS rules of
what they supposed to do on a
tax return. And so that's kind
of the ideal client that I've
kind of skimmed towards a little
bit. But if I'm going back to my
business owners, it's mostly
small business, almost probably
between one and 5 million, who
may have a tax issue where they
disagree with the IRS, they went
to an audit or they get, you
know, a payroll issue. You have
no idea how many small
businesses don't have any idea
that they supposed to actually
file Georgia Department or law,
labor, payroll and payroll
taxes, they have no idea. And so
I say, you didn't know that.
It's like, no, nobody ever told
me I supposed to file this. And
so, you know, working with them,
and others to help them
understand those type of things,
is like my ideal client. I just,
I love it. And also, I love the
the gating. So if it's a
litigation issue, I want to be
involved. Up to so I'm big on
that as well. I've gotten I
know, right? litigate, and I
have a criminal attorney who was
awesome. We partnered together
because of course, it's a it's
the financial part of the PPP.
And then it's the criminal part
of PPP. And so if they get in
trouble, we both work together
and try to help them as much as
possible. Wow.
Davina Frederick: I, I, you,
you're talking about tax
professionals, I find that so
interesting, because I think a
lot of business owners probably
think well, I've got my CPA,
there's my tax professional, and
I don't need a tax attorney and
a CPA. How, how common is it for
CPAs to sort of seek out tax
attorneys is probably happens
much more than, you know, people
who business owners think that
that CPAs and other tax
professionals, have those
relationships with tax
attorneys. Tell us about that.
Unknown: So yeah, so I mean, I,
because I do have a lot of CPAs
and tax professional as my
clients on tax taxpayers as
clients, they, they, you know,
they have, like I said, they
have due diligence issues, or
not even that they really not
sure what the law is on there.
And they're saying, Josie, can
you look at this correspondence
from the IRS? Can you help me
decipher? What's the issue?
What, you know, what I need to
tell my client to do? You know,
or even that just even being
able to say, Hey, I can't
litigate? Because I don't you
know, that's not what I do. I
want to send it off to a tax
attorney, I don't know any tax
attorneys. So that's kind of
where I've came in at what I'm
saying, Okay, I am the middle
person between all of this, let
me be that person on the middle
person? Well, we call ourselves
as a scale because you know, we
use a scale. So we're the
balance between the tax
professional and the IRS,
because we balance them and tell
them, hey, you should be good
client should be doing this, or
you should be doing that. So
that's kind of the difference.
And that's how my clients look
at me as in as a nother eye.
Because, of course, they know
how to they know how to prepare
return, but defending a return
or defending either defending an
issue, that's something they
come to a tax attorney for.
Davina Frederick: Right? Right.
And, and the laws, you know,
it's already complicated enough
for lay people. And then you
have people who work in that
area, even, you know, every time
I go see my accountant every
year, there's always changes in
the law. And it really affects
what we do and what we're not
doing, you know, and so I think,
you know, having that person
there that can answer those
legal questions for you, so that
you can keep up so you can keep
up on things and you can double
check yourself before you tell
the client something. Yeah, it's
a wonderful idea. Dan, you
actually have you started a new
business, just helping other tax
professionals, those tax
preparers. And it is like a a
hotline or a concierge service
where you help them it's a
subscription based service, why
don't you tell us a little bit
about that kind of how that idea
came to you.
Unknown: So because I represent
so many tax professionals and
I've seen that you know, all I'm
saying you know what, Josie if I
just had to you and if I knew
this prior to going to the
island prior to my client
getting this island or
correspondence or whatever, and
having to go through all this
process, I would have I would
have been good I would have I
just had to know the law and
knowing what I needed to do on
this issue. And so since I since
I have that so much I say you
know what, what about if I do
like a because this is something
I work for h&r block and I work
for legal shield, which is you
know, legal shows institution
based program, I work for one of
the law firms, and I work for HR
HR block has exactly that. So if
they have a franchisee, or
someone franchisor, who goes in
and does the tax returns, they
have questions, they have a back
office to hammer that and I did
I was one of the people who did
that. And then I also licorice.
I was like, Oh, this would be so
good for tax professionals. So I
call it tax pros cons there. So
it's a concierge service where
you can call a tax attorney and
ask a question about either you
or your client or anything that
you have a question about
regarding benefits. As
professional, even corporate,
I've included corporate in there
because a lot of people want to
know about their corporations
because they are small business
owners as well. So they want to
know about their, you know what
they need to trademark and as
well I've added that in there as
well. So I'm building a built a
team of different tax
professionals and corporate
corporate attorneys all around
the world, I'm building that
team, where they're going to be
able to help me with it all you
got to do you can text chat,
message, a phone, you need to
debate get your question
answered. And you can upload
correspondence and we will
review them for you. And it's a
subscription basis amongst us
and based on. So I call it
concierge service because of
hotel. So I named it. It's
called the The penthouse, which
is the higher which is 497 a
month. And then I have the
executive suite, which is 297 a
month, and you have the standard
497 a month for somebody who may
just be starting now, but they
need that service but cannot
afford to be in a penthouse,
they can actually see us being a
standard and still get the same
level of service. So that kind
of is going to work out. Yeah.
So it's became people are
actually waiting. It starts
November 1.
Davina Frederick: And that's
exciting. Yes. That is super,
super exciting. I'm happy for
you. So do you have do you have
your website up yet? Can we
include that link in the show
notes?
Unknown: Yeah, it's on the it's
the what the Walton farm if you
go on there, it's just a service
under me. So I've decided to
service under me under the
Walton farm because we still
want to keep it illegal. Because
we that's what we do. I keep it
on there. So yeah, it'll be you
can find out about the services,
just go into the Walton firm.com
and go on and tax postcards
here. And they'll tell you a
little bit about our service and
about us.
Davina Frederick: Excellent,
excellent. I'm excited. So
let's, I'm excited for you. I
think that's fantastic. So let's
talk about your law firm and
your law firm team. You have six
people working with you now.
About six. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And
you are all all black woman
team. Yeah. Right. So to further
your unicorn status of loving
taxes, loving to litigate about
taxes. Being a black woman tax
attorney, you also have an all
woman law firm, which I
absolutely love to see. Because,
you know, I'm a champion for
women, law firm owners. So I
love to see that.
Unknown: Yeah, it didn't have
it. I didn't try to make it
happen that way. It's just that
I know so many amazing black
women who do so many different
things. And then with tax pros
consigliere is it happened the
same way, because I did want a
meal on the Concierge Team,
right, but ended up I have three
attorneys on that team, which is
one tax, one corporate, and then
one is corporate and tax and my
division here. And then of
course, we're looking out for
other tax professionals as well.
But if it happened like that, so
now I'm adding those additional
three women to that to that team
as well. So yeah, it's but I
don't try to I don't really try
to do that. It just happens
either, because I know so many
amazing black women that I love.
And so I like to really give to
my community and help out. And
that's kind of where it kind of
happened.
Davina Frederick: Yeah, so it
sounds like you are highly
attractive and attracting really
great attorneys to work with
you. So that's wonderful. Your
talent. Tell us about you
started your law firm in 2020.
But before that, give us kind of
your journey to sort of we know
that you always wanted to be a
tax attorney since you were a
little kid, which is what little
kid I want to be a ballerina a
baseball player or a tax
attorney.
Unknown: Yeah, yeah. Cuz I was
working with my mom. And she was
preparing returns because she's
an accountant. She was preparing
returns. And he's always helped.
So I thought I was like, Oh, I
just want to do that. And not
really know exactly what it was
that I thought it was corporate,
I always thought it was, you
know, being a corporate
attorney. I was like, Oh, I'm
going to work for Coca Cola. I'm
going to do this, this this. And
it just didn't happen that way
happened where I actually
started my own firm. But prior
to that, of course, I worked
with dimming Parker, which is a
well let's go back. So I have of
course, a law degree from Carmel
and then I went I decided that I
was gonna want to get taxed
more. So I decided, okay, you
know what, I'm going to, to get
my LLM in taxation at DePaul. So
once upon Chicago, and then I
work for a nonprofit, I'm just
kind of just wanting to
understand taxes and a lot of
people don't do that anymore.
But I worked for free for almost
a year with this nonprofit
helping them out with they had
the IRS issues with different
clients and things like that.
Then I went to Demi Parker which
is they are a legal shields
their corporate clients so I
worked there did corporate work
for them and they came back to
them and then I built their kind
of built their tax division. And
then after I found that I wasn't
going to, you know, probably
that was gonna make partner
that's what I wanted. That's all
I've ever wanted was to make
partner I've always wanted to be
no matter where I went. I always
wanted to be a partner because I
like Being able to make
decisions. And so in 2020, I
decided that I was going to open
up my firm, I opened up doing
COVID, which is weird. I've
already had the firm anyway, but
I wasn't doing anything in it.
And I decided I was like, I'm
going full throttle. I'm going
to actually open me 2020 That's
exactly what I do. I'm a full
service as a Watson firm. Yes.
Davina Frederick: Yes.
Wonderful. Wonderful. And so
tell us about kind of your
growth journey since then. Did
you hire people immediately? Or
were you kind of on your bike by
yourself for a while a true
solo.
Unknown: I was a true solo for
almost a year. A true solo
almost, yeah, almost a year,
maybe even longer than that. I
just actually hired I hired my
paralegal, which I took I stole
her from Demi.
Davina Frederick: You recruited
I
Unknown: had I that's what they
did. They say I stole it from
from them. But her. I didn't
know she was looking, I
recruited her from Demi. She was
already she used to be my
assistant there. I recruited
her, then I hired as an
assistant for us. And then I
went on to hire an auditor,
which you know, on a contract
basis, and then just kind of
doing people contract as well,
and then went on from there, and
just kind of start hiring
people. And I'm actually looking
for the system now. But I
because because it's getting too
much for all of us now. But it's
crazy. But it's Yeah, so I
didn't start off like that. I
started off doing everything
myself. And that's why I know
how to do everything myself.
Right? No, anything happens. I
know how to go back and do
everything myself. Yeah,
Davina Frederick: right. Right.
And you so you've grown very
quickly, because 2020 We're only
in 2022. So you've grown pretty
quickly. And what do you think
have been some of the challenges
that the biggest challenge you
have in sort of growing your
firm?
Unknown: I think the biggest
challenge for me is giving up
the everything. I am a hands on
person. I'm type A and I so I
want to be able to be in
everything. And giving it up and
letting somebody else pauma. All
of that has been hard. For me.
That's been one of the hardest
things for me because I still
want to be able to go in
because, you know, my paralegal
now she says Josie, you don't
need to answer your phones. You
don't need to answer your calls.
You don't need to, you need to
make sure you tell clients to go
back to your staff who's Hi, she
she's on me all the time about
that, but and I nurture my
clients very well I'm I'm really
all into my, they say they say I
babied them and I feel like I
nurture them. I nurture them. So
I want to be in everything that
when they when they call I want
to answer. And right now it's
not happening because I'm
traveling a lot right now. And
you know, we're doing the tax
professional thing. So it's been
hard, but that's the hardest
thing for me is giving up all
that stuff and delegating, I
don't know how to delegate. And
that's been the hardest thing
for me is delegating even if I
have a team that I'm paying, I
still don't know how to delegate
the work to them, which is
Davina Frederick: you need to
grab I just sent an email out
today. It's going out in about
four minutes. So look, you're on
my list and grab that because
you and I are on the same
wavelength today because I just
shared it I have a brand new
kind of cheat sheet that I've
created. It's called delegation
secrets for women law firm
owners who do too much you're
gonna get that today when you go
check your email. So I must be I
must be read your mind today.
That but i do i mean that's the
big challenge for a lot of women
law firm owners and I once had a
coach told me and I have told
this to people many many times
since he says Davina, you can
control all the details you
certainly that is your choice.
If you want to do it, you can
control the details, he says or
you can have growth, but you
cannot have them both. You
cannot control all the details
and grow the same time. And I
thought that was so powerful. I
was like okay, I get it now I
get it.
Unknown: No, I can you believe I
still handle all my payroll?
Davina Frederick: No, I can't
believe that.
Unknown: I can't give it up and
and today somebody call me up
after all, like, Oh, my God, I
don't want to deal with payroll
right now. And I was like, then,
you know, of course somebody
says in my head. You should
already been to give that up a
long time ago. But I just
haven't I haven't given
Davina Frederick: it yet. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, we definitely have
to get you delegating more but
less so you forget you
delegating more think of the
amount of mental emotional space
you'll have for these big ideas
that you have. And and growing
that so we'll get to that. But,
uh, tell me what do you think is
like one of the vital sort of
lessons that you've learned so
far along the way for those
women law firm owners who are
kind of coming up behind you.
Let them learn from our mistakes
as I say So is there some vital
kind of gold nugget you can
share that you do? We would
again do it differently or
anything like that yet.
Unknown: I think, you know,
honestly, I really think that I
probably mind I went and went in
by myself, I would have, I would
have, because I didn't. And I
guess that I didn't talk about
that part. But I did have a in
2016, I opened up a firm with a
another friend. And she decided
she didn't want to practice law
anymore. And I don't want to
practice by myself. So I went
back to work. And I wouldn't
have did that I would have
stayed in 2016, I should have
stayed the course, and then
maybe brought in another
partner. And I think that's one
of the things I probably
wouldn't do about myself. If I
could go back and do this all
over again, I wouldn't have done
it, you know, I wouldn't did it
by myself, I wildly would have
found them associate brought
that person in and then move
them up the ranks of being
partner, because I've never
wanted to really do it by
myself. It just happened like
that. But that's kind of one of
the nuggets, because I you know,
my whole thing is Josie, you
can't do it all. The tribe can't
do it all. And that's one of the
things that has been keeping me
up all times at night is doing
stuff by myself.
Davina Frederick: Yeah, I've
been telling, I've been telling
people, you can have it all, but
you cannot do it all. You can
have it all, but you can't do it
on I think I think women high
achieving women often conflate
the two, we think if I'm going
to have it all, then I'm going
to have to do it all. And we
don't really realize that that's
not what all that hard work that
got you here is not going to be
what gets you to the next level.
So going to school, yes, that's
a youth thing, going to college,
going to law school, go and get
your LLM all that stuff is a
huge thing. But when you start
to scale a business, and you
want to impact and serve more
and more people, you really have
to start thinking about how, you
know, how are we how can we get
this done? And really, who were
powerful questions? Who's going
to help me get this done? Right?
And it can be hard for those of
us who kind of got where we are
on our own merit. And we haven't
been used to asking for help,
right?
Unknown: You feel like you know,
what if I gotta go and do it, if
they don't mess it up, I'm just
gonna do it myself. But you
gotta you gotta let people do
that, you know, I've been proven
all my bad. I've been you know,
but I just, it's still hard.
Davina Frederick: Yeah, yeah,
well, it takes a lot of takes a
lot of mindset shifts, you know,
to get there. But it is like,
it's like anything else. When
you started law school, you
didn't yet know how to think
like a lawyer, and they teach
you that in law school. So when
you came out of law school, you
had a whole different mindset
and then practice. You grow more
as you practice, and you really
learn how to apply to real world
situations. So it's the same
thing with a business you, you
don't magically just get the
knowledge, you get the knowledge
by doing and failing and doing
succeeding and doing and going,
Oh, no, I wish I hadn't have
done that. And that's how you
grow into the person who can be
the CEO of a business, you know,
which is you're on that journey.
And you're really, you're really
jumping in with both feet too,
especially since you're kind of
starting this other piece of
your business, which I think is
really taking off already for
you. So it's wonderful. It's
wonderful. It's that visionary.
And, and, and like the highest
and best use of your time is to
be that visionary, right?
Because you definitely have a
lot of energy and vision, I can
tell for sure, for sure. So
Unknown: all my clients lack
because I'm a visionary. So I
was like, Okay, I'll just do,
I'll just stay up all times in
my sleep later, just to make
sure I get everything done for
my clients. And I just is I have
to figure something.
Davina Frederick: Well, we will
talk about that. But I want to
talk I also want to I want to go
back to the work that you do
with your clients. Because give
us for those of us who don't
sort of live in tax litigation,
world tax controversy world.
Give us an idea of like some of
the some of the issues that your
clients come to you with.
Unknown: So most of my issues
are with the IRS. I've been
getting more of Georgia
Department of Revenue lately,
but most of the IRS so most of
the time with a small business,
it happens where of course, you
know, 10% of clients are
audited. So based on his
schedule C's maybe 1120 assets,
I'm sorry, which S corporations
or C corporations. And so they
are audited by the IRS just to
verify they have all the
documents, verify whatever they
reported on their tax returns is
actually valid, and they can
substantiate it with
documentation. So normally what
happens with me they come in
they say hey, Josie, I need
this. They are they've been
audited me. They're asking me
for all these documentation. I
need you to verify I have
everything I need. And I need
you to represent me against the
IRS to do that. And so that's
kind of where I started that and
then now I'm at the point where
it's not litigation where the
IRS has said, No, that's not
true. We feel like you did not
substantiate and now we're going
to charge you this big fee. They
charge you this big tax fee and
you have to pay it or you go to
court and So now I come in where
they go into court. And so I'm
litigating and saying, verify,
okay, women, is this correct or
not is always correct or not,
things like that. payroll
issues, I, you know, I get those
where someone may have not paid
their payroll as an employer, as
an employer, you're responsible
for making sure that payroll has
been paid to employees, and
maybe the taxes have been paid
as well. So if you don't do
that, then the IRS can do what
they call a penalty, a civil
penalty against you. And then I
come in, we're trying to remove
the penalty trying to verify
what happen if there was
actually an issue involved. And
then I also have where I said
PPP loans on criminal, also the
criminal attacks as well,
because I work with a criminal
attorney, and we do criminal tax
issues, where a tax professional
may have had a due diligence
issue, and it escalated to a
criminal issue because they were
actually it was a fraud. And so
now they are being indicted, and
they could actually possibly go
to jail. And so we represent
them as well. And then the PPP
loans where, you know,
individuals, small businesses go
up long, poopy long, maybe
they're supposed to get all that
money, and we represent them as
well. So that's kind of the
niches of of my firm right now.
I used to do what they call
resolution, which was offering
compromises, you know, some kind
of resolution with IRS. I don't
handle those as much anymore. I
actually have someone who handle
those. For me, a company that I
work with very well hands off
for me retag Callum, which is
some of the London ladies who my
auditors well, they handle some
of those issues.
Davina Frederick: Yeah, yeah. So
do you tend to be successful
going up against the IRS and
litigation? I do a lot of Yeah,
I was gonna say I think a lot of
people would have the idea that
like, the IRS is Goliath, and,
you know, they wouldn't be very
successful going up against
them.
Unknown: Because the thing my
team is, we're so interested to
talk about what we do. Like it
starts with compliance, making
sure that the all the documents
are correct for the IRS, I have
a discovery department, which
discovers verify all the
information, go out and get the
tax code. And then I have an
audit department, which audits
all of the stuff that's already
been done. And if we see that
there is no way of winning, then
I'm going to advise my client of
that I'm very transparent, my
client, I will say, Look, we can
settle, we can try to negotiate,
but we're not going to win. If
I'm going to court. That means I
truly have done the research and
everything and got to the point
where saying, you are correct.
We need to go to court and we
need to defend this. And that's
what happens. And when it
happens like that I'm usually
right.
Davina Frederick: Yeah, yeah.
You can work with clients all
over the country all over United
States and really all over the
world if it's a tax if it's US
tax issue. Right. Right. And
then you also do anything that
state state tax related in
Georgia then because that's
where you're alleging
Unknown: are in Alabama, because
I'm on Bama. I have licensed in
Alabama as well. So Alabama and
Georgia, I normally hammer those
with Department of Revenue, but
if there's someone who has a
state issue that I do try to
find a a tax attorney there in
another state. That's why I
found so many tax attorneys
because I haven't either so
that's why I have so many tax
attorneys I know
Davina Frederick: because I've
looked Yeah cuz you've had to
have built up that resource bank
of people so because I imagine
if people have US tax issues
that a lot oftentimes state sort
of gets wrapped in there and
some in some way like income tax
some states have state income
tax and so I imagine it gets
complicated and resort have to
bring in somebody else right?
Unknown: Oh, yeah. So with
Georgia like versus Georgia
which I'm you know, I'm I have
licensed here, but if the IRS
audit you and they they're in
there is a tax liability for it,
because which means your your
income went up, which means now
you have more taxes, they send
that down to Georgia, and they
say, you know, you're getting
Georgia saying hey, yeah, your
income taxes went up for the
IRS, we want our money too. And
so you got to route us some
documentation showing that you
actually did all this. So it's a
whole new whole new audit that
goes on so yeah, and on that
didn't happen to all states who
have income taxes.
Davina Frederick: It's making me
have like an anxiety attack just
listening to you because it's
always my accountant. Just, you
know, we file extensions, and
he's just gotten our personal
return done and everything. And
yeah, the taxes every year. It's
always i i, i My Business
Manager talks to our accountant
and I'm like, You guys have to
get it together and I'll do
whatever exactly that is so I
dealing with it and we just got
an extension, I guess here in
Florida because of the flooding.
Flooding that we had. So we get
an extension on that but it's it
is. Yeah, it's something that I
am I've had many, many
conversations with women, law
firm owners who don't want to
think about their taxes, they
don't want to file tax, they
start out and they don't,
they're like, Oh, I didn't know
I was gonna have to do this. And
they delay in filing because
they owe money. And I know one
piece of advice is never skip
filing, even if you owe money,
you come up with a payment plan,
but never skip filing, never
know, because
Unknown: you're gonna receive a
non filing penalty. And so
that's an extra penalty on
another penalty, and people
don't realize like penalties,
you get interest on penalties, I
don't mean that you get interest
on interest only to have that
happen. But it's compounded. And
so that can be half of your your
tax liability. Debt is penalties
and interest. And because of the
fact that you don't file and
you're not valid, because of
course, if you don't file within
three years, the IRS has the
right to file for you. And
they're gonna file with no
exemptions, no deductions,
nothing like that. And then now,
you got to say, and you only
have three years to file. So you
got to now either take it up or
see if you can file the returns,
and hopefully they accept it. So
just I tell people never not
found no matter if you or not
never not found and you know, I
have I have, you know, women
business owners, who are my
clients as well, or who they
have been my clients and I
resolve issues for them. Yeah,
that's right. Yeah.
Davina Frederick: Yeah. Yeah.
And I think people think that
attorneys, you know, would know
all about tax law because their
attorneys, you know, the general
public assumes attorneys know
everything about every area of
law. And really, if you're not,
if that's not your area of
practice, and that's kind of why
I call you you unicorn, too,
because there's so many people
out there, you run into a lot of
family law attorneys, a lot of
estate planning attorneys, but
especially among women, so. So
it's always good to have a good
tax attorney for and just like,
it's good to have a good
employment law attorney for me,
because it's not your area of
life. So if you're running your
own law firm, you need these
people in your pocket.
Unknown: If you ask me anything
about other law, I'm like, I
don't know.
Davina Frederick: Somebody asked
you about a divorce all you
know, is the tax implication. So
Unknown: that's it. That's it
all. I know, that's how I know
even with the state, because a
lot of people think because a
state and taxes will go hand in
hand. But I don't know that part
of it. I know the implications
of a state because I've been in
some state issues where they had
to bring me in about the tax
implications. But other than
that, I don't know anything
about opening up a state. Now
let's look at my mom's like, and
I'm trying to do me a wheel.
Mom, I don't know anything about
a wheel. I'm gonna do that for
you. Because I have no idea. I
got you. I can tell you
Davina Frederick: like, you're
like I could do a wheel for you.
But I don't know, if you want
it. You won't be right. Tell me
about your you do have a really
strong sort of network that you
built over time. Tell me kind of
what what your marketing, if you
say you had a marketing
strategy, or from a marketing
method that has helped you grow
your business? What kind of
things do you do to market your
business? Well,
Unknown: when I first started, I
didn't do anything. It was just
word of mouth, right? It was
just word of mouth. And but now,
I really have hired a marketing
team that helps a lot with
social media helps as well with
they get me speaking
engagements. Either also
retained someone for just
helping me how I helped me build
a group of people on social
media. So mainly, I think that's
what's been really, a lot of
that is social media. And then
of course, I started this, I
started to speak a lot. But
social media has been really
good for me, regarding the
marketing.
Davina Frederick: What platforms
do you like? Sorry,
Unknown: what platforms YouTube
because I love to talk. So I
always I'm always putting
YouTube video out there. Well,
we started anyway, I got so many
videos that didn't ever go on
YouTube, because they just
didn't in my inbox somewhere.
And then Facebook. I'm really
good at Facebook. LinkedIn, not
as much, but I think YouTube and
Facebook has been to me been the
most successful for me.
Davina Frederick: Yeah, yeah, I
do think that I do think
everybody has kind of fine,
where they're what they like to
do, and also where their clients
hang out. So a big mistake
people make is trying to be
everywhere, and be everything to
everybody. And it's, you know,
unless you have a team of people
helping you, you can't do that,
you know, so for sure.
Unknown: Yeah. So it's been I
think hiring a marketing team
really put me up there to where
I needed to be at I didn't you
know, because of course I was
doing by myself and I will do
good really good for a whole
month and then next month you'll
never see me. I will never I was
like this can happen. I just
can't keep doing this. So yeah,
so but they have really been
very good to me.
Davina Frederick: Good, good,
good. Anything else before we
wrap up today? Is there any
thing else that you want to
leave our audience with some
words of wisdom?
Unknown: Well, you know my words
he was in his don't try to do it
by yourself. Please. I
Davina Frederick: welcome you.
Unknown: I know, learn from me.
I mean, you really, because now
you know, but me doing. Like I
said, I do a lot right now I'm
headed to the big, the biggest,
the biggest boss conference in
Houston, Texas. Sorry. And then
on Thursday, I'm speaking
they're on the tax panel. And
then on our comeback, I have my
home for like Monday, Tuesday,
I'm back, I'm gonna I'm headed
to Vegas for the National
Association of tax
professionals. And now there are
a lot of tax professionals that
do the classes like during this
time there, they're getting
ready, they we do all that find
out about all laws, they hire
new people. And so I've been
doing a lot of classes and stuff
on speaking on due diligence for
tax professionals. Now I have no
other choice but to lean on
other people because I'm never
here. And if I want my clients,
and you know, if I hadn't done
that, in the beginning, I
wouldn't have to come home and
still be doing a lot of work,
which I do. But I'm finally
having to say, You know what, I
have to let go because I'm never
here. And my clients need
someone to be here. So at this
point, I guess I'm going to hire
an associate.
Davina Frederick: Yeah, you're,
you're the reluctant grower,
we're reluctant.
Unknown: See CEO, Oh, yes. So
that's my negatives, like, you
know, our is crazy. I always
tell my clients, if you're
already prepared, you have to
worry about getting prepared.
Yeah, I wasn't prepared. For all
of this, I didn't know it was
gonna start off and just move
like this. And now it has. And
now like, I'm not prepared for
what happens with all my clients
that I love so much, I gotta
make sure they still get what
they need, because our is in the
Georgia Department, and
everyone's still out there. And
so I need to make sure that
happens. So
Davina Frederick: yeah, yeah,
always. And I really think that
is a real motivator for growth
too, is that we make commitments
to people. We, we need to back
it up. And that's where we
really start to look at, am I
physically capable of doing
this. So there are only so many
hours a day, I do have to sleep
sometime, right. And that's
really, I think, what pushes us
oftentimes, when we look when we
really love our clients, and we
really love to serve our
clients, yeah, that's the thing
that can really push us into
growth, because we know that we
really want to serve them to a
high standard of excellence. And
also, we can serve more people.
Right? If we have a good team,
right, we can impact more,
because you know, there are a
lot of people out there who need
your help.
Unknown: I know and, you know,
my whole thing is, is it not
gonna find somebody who's a mini
me, that's what I want. I want a
mini me who knows everything who
knows, like, the one who's like,
I do, but I want a mini me and I
haven't, I just haven't found
that mini me yet. And that's,
I'm struggling with that on
because I want my clients and
it's like, it's me, that's still
sitting there with them. Because
it's hard when you got me and
then you get something that may
not be what you thought it was.
And then I think that's hard for
clients. So that's so I gotta, I
gotta, I gotta be able to
Davina Frederick: pull away if
you're wanting to marry me. So
can I cook? Can I coach you
through that real quick, of
course. So I will tell, I will
just tell you this, if you get
clear on your core values, and
you know, what your core values
are, what the core values of
your firm are, and then you hire
people who align with those core
values, that's gonna get they're
going to have differences,
they're not going to be many of
us are going to be them. But if
they align with your core
values, they're gonna help you
provide that standard of service
to your clients. Right, and so
then there and then of course,
there is a educating the client
along the way and expanding
their mind that they're hiring a
firm, and they're hiring a team
and that actually is good for
them, that works their benefit,
because then they're not sitting
waiting for you to get back from
Vegas, you know, right. So but
core values are really the key
to that mini me kind of thing
that you're wanting when you
figure out what your core values
are, the firm's core values are
and then you start really hiring
around those core values. You're
gonna get those people that
you're gonna be like, Oh my God,
how they relate with this
person?
Unknown: Well, that's the reason
why I'm gonna hire you to coach
me because I'm saying the right
here in front of everybody I
have.
Davina Frederick: Everybody
hears it, it's recorded now.
Unknown: Here you go. I gotta
hire her to teach me my core
values. Because I don't know.
Davina Frederick: Josie, thanks
so much for being here today. I
have had so much fun with you,
as I always do, we talk. So I
appreciate you coming on and
sharing your story. And I'm
super excited for you and happy
for your, your team and all that
you're doing all your speaking
engagements. And your new
program is very exciting. So
thanks for being here and
sharing it. Oh, thank you
Unknown: so much for having me
on the I appreciate it so much.
I love what you do with women. I
love what you're trying to do.
And it's just so inspiring. So
keep doing what you're doing and
thank you so much. And like I
said we Yeah, you need to go
ahead and see more
Davina Frederick: I thank you
thank you have a good day