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A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
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Good afternoon and welcome to another edition of the iGaming Daily Podcast brought to you by OptiMove, the number one CRM marketing solution for the iGaming market at a time when CRM has never been so important. And as a special offer OptiMove are providing new clients with a free first month when they buy OptiMove. For more information and to claim the free month, go to OptiMove .com slash SBC. Links will also be left in the podcast description.
As I mentioned at the top, a really special edition of the iGaming Daily podcast today. I'm joined by Ted Orme Clay to start from payment expert and insider sport. I nearly said SBC News then Ted. Days gone by, you're a payment expert now. You are a payment expert now. Thanks for joining us today. Cheers Joe, good to be back. Yes, great to have you. And we've got some really interesting topics today. We're going to be joined by Callum Williams and Kieran O 'Connor in the second half of the show.
who are reporting live from Money2020 in Amsterdam. A really insightful conference, a really important one for the payment industry, obviously having an effect and with technologies that will evolve the iGaming industry as well. And what are you expecting, Ted, from Money2020? You've got a strong team out there. What are you hoping to hear back? What trends are you expecting to see?
Yeah, I mean, as you said, Joe, Money 2020 is one of the biggest conferences in payments and fintech. It's got a huge range of content on offer. We're going to see, I think there's there's well over 40 or 50. I think you've probably even more than that, like panels, fireside chats, keynote speeches, debates, obviously a massive conference expo floor, so plenty of networking opportunities as well.
This content is going to cover a huge amount of trends. You can just check out the agenda online to see what's going on. There's going to be talk about latest sort of financial innovations, open banking, artificial intelligence, embedded finance, cryptocurrencies and CBDC is obviously quite a big one, quite a big talking point at the moment. Regulation as well across various different markets. So I think we can expect some pretty good content coverage from the guys who are out there from our team. Definitely. And I think just learning from...
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from the Casino Beat Summit in Malta last week. Yeah, it was last week or two weeks ago. But I can attest that these conferences bring together the thought leaders and they really shape the trends of what is happening in the industry, what is going on. And I think you mentioned it there with crypto, something that we really will dig deeper into at Money2020, a really interesting subject. There's some big news.
from the US with the House bill being approved. What is the latest on that? I think there were developments, right? Yeah. So obviously that was quite a big, quite a big movement, quite a big development in the US regarding the regulation. The bill is, the financial, I'm hoping to get this right. So I'm going to financial innovation and technology bill, financial, financial innovation in technology for 21st century. There we go. Abbreviated as fit 21. It was passed by the house of representatives with,
Quite broad bipartisan support, which was interesting. So I think only three Republicans voted against it. It was a bill introduced by the Republican Party. The majority of Democrats did go against it, but quite a significant minority, I think around 66 of the representatives from the Democratic Party did support it. That's quite interesting because Joe Biden has got quite a sort of historically cautious approach towards cryptocurrency. And this is now...
The latest development is now that he has actually vetoed the legislation. Wow. So it won't be progressing to the Senate. Obviously, given the support they did have among representatives, I wouldn't be surprised at all if some sort of legislation does get reintroduced. Yeah. And obviously it was a landmark moment for the US crypto sector and subsequently for the global crypto sector as well. And I guess the.
The other side of this is it's a political football now, right? With a US election coming up. We could go the other way if we get a Trump presidency in November. Yeah, Donald Trump has made it very clear that he's quite supportive of, I guess, what you could say is private crypto investment. He made quite a few comments at the, he was a guest speaker at the Libertarian Party National Convention to anyone who doesn't follow US politics that much. That's the, by third party really, after the Democrats and Republicans.
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And you made quite a few comments there about, you know, something that lines of I'm going to protect your Bitcoin. I think I'm paraphrasing there, but I'm sure we can imagine. I'm sure you can all imagine that in Trump's voice. We almost got the the debut Trump impression of the podcast there. It's coming as November nears. We're going to get a Trump impression from Ted. That's my my goal. But to bring issues closer to this side of the pond, we've you know, it was a.
You actually yourself issued a stark warning for iGame and operators on Casino Beats yesterday, Ted. And, you know, it was echoed by many others. iGame and operators, you know, they need to take heed of breaches to Ticketmaster and Santander, two big breaches in the UK, security and data breaches, where I think the data of consumers was obtained by hackers.
It was a moment that left that really sent ripples through many sectors and also left many sectors reflecting on whether their security is up to standards. Something that is obviously massive for the iGaming sector. But can you just give us a little bit of oversight on the hacks to Santander for those that don't know a massive bank and to Ticketmaster as well in this region?
Yeah, sure. Well, first of all, I don't mean to start off by correcting you slightly, but I think I know you mentioned breaches in the UK. It's a bit more global in nature, really. So like it was last month, Santander issued a statement saying like confirming that had been a third party data breach specifically regarding customers in its Chile, Spanish and Uruguayan operations.
They reckon up to 30 million customers and information may have been breached including payment information as well as a lot of its staff members. I think it has around 200 ,000 staff globally. And this has later been confirmed, well, alleged to have been committed by a group called the called Shiny Hunters, I think, who are what's known as a black hat hacking organization who hack big institutions and businesses for financial gain.
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So I think their main modus operandi is getting personal information and offering it for sale on the dark web. This group would later, it later turned out that they've also hacked Ticketmaster and this is probably even bigger because I think this has compromised up the personal data including payments information of something like 560 million people. Obviously Ticketmaster is...
Probably arguably the world's biggest ticketing platform for all sorts of stuff, sports, music, various types of entertainment. So there's a lot of people who use that who I think might be a bit worried that their personal data has been compromised and could be potentially up for sale. Although it is being investigated by various authorities. So these hacks were global, they weren't just to Europe or to the UK? Yeah, I think across various markets, yeah. wow, okay. And although not entirely in our sector thus far, it's one that our industry will, the iGaming industry will...
really be taking note of because these types of hacks, they leave, they're massively damaging and for high risk sectors, hacks like this will just leave a lasting impact and they will deteriorate that consumer trust. So the long lasting damage that these types of things could have on operators if they fall victim to them, if their security isn't in standard, isn't up to standard, is massive and
Yeah, I guess you echo that right there. I game and operators will be looking at their security and be trying to take note of the steps they can take to ensure these hacks don't happen for for them. Yeah, I think this is a sentiment that's been echoed quite a bit in recent years, particularly in the UK and sort of the context of the Gamblin Act review. And that's the lessons that operators can learn from other sectors, particularly the financial and banking sectors. Although I guess also looking at this, you could also.
make the case of, you know, it's important for them to look at say Ticketmaster, which is also kind of similar to gaming operators as a massive customer base, as a very customer facing platform. Yeah, I think it's just really important for operators to keep a look on what is going on in other sectors, particularly with regards, in this case, to security. Online gambling companies in particular obviously have huge customer bases. They have access to a lot of customer data, including payment information.
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And as you said, Joe, it's very important that you protect this in order to maintain that very essential customer trust. On top of that, I think you should also, as you said, with it being a high risk sector, there's also the industry's reputation to consider. If we look at the UK, we've had quite a few cases of operators falling short on social responsibility and money laundering requirements. So this and.
that's resulted in various enforcement actions. This is something that doesn't make the sector look great. So I think in kind of in this context, it's also important to prove that they are capable of looking after their customers, their customers' personal information and customer data. Yeah, to really prove that they're doing a good job in this regard and aren't allowing people's information to get compromised. Yeah, I think it's harder for iGaming operators and for gambling operators more than others to build that trust back once it's been breached. You know, I really do. And I
I think that's why they've got to take it so seriously. What, whatever steps can be taken, whether it's ensuring that the third party partners are correct and doing your due diligence there. It's massive or whether it's MFA and having some multifactorial authentication, you've really got to take the right steps. And even if it does add an obstacle to the user experience, I think in the current climate, it really is vital to ensure that.
the security is up to scratch and up to standards because one breach like this is so damaging and can really tarnish the relationship between consumers and operators or whoever it is, but it can really damage that reputation. It's also incredibly damaging to consumers as well with that data being available on the black web, which is on the dark web, which is what happened off the back of the Ticketmaster breach, I think.
Yeah, from what we understand, it's what's happened off both of these recent breaches. Yeah. The, the, like I said earlier, the main, the main thing they're looking to do is sell it on the dark web to, I guess, to the highest bidder. Yeah. I think these incidents will also fuel operators approach to AI. We'll see them double down on AI and take an enhanced approach to AI solutions and utilizing AI to strengthen their security, combining it with a man -made
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Strategy, of course, but I think we're going to see more AI tapped into off the back of this Just to really cover all bases and ensure that hacks like this aren't happening in the gambling industry After the break, we will be joined by Callum and Kieran in Amsterdam at Money2020 Welcome back to part two of today's iGaming Daily podcast and as promised we are joined by Callum Williams and Kieran O 'Connor from an exciting
Amsterdam show floor in for the money 2020 conference Yeah, thanks for joining us lads and it seems like there's a lot going on there. So we'll get straight to it Callum How how is the conference? What have you noticed? What have you seen? Yeah, yeah both me and Karen traveled. No, we traveled in a troubled in yesterday didn't me? Yeah, trouble in there quite late yesterday And yeah, we just we've just kind of been taking it in It's absolutely huge. It's big. I came here two years ago and it was
It was one big hall that I thought it was big then, but it's got even bigger and better this year. So a lot of halls, a lot of conferences, a lot of exciting conferences that we've attended to and covered a bit on payment experts so far. And yeah, just a lot of meetings and networking with some of the payments biggest and best. So it's been quite productive, I'd say, so far.
Brilliant and what have been some of the trends, some of the big stories from Money2020 so far that you've noticed? Well the whole theme is human and human and machine, I think that's the tagline that they're calling with this year, obviously AI taking off the way it is and they're countering that with the human touch, what makes payments payments. In terms of news, I did cover a really good...
conference panel with Revolut, their vice president of profitability and global marketing strategy, delivered a really good insight into how Revolut have grew over the past several years, particularly in the last several years. And yeah, there was also an announcement by Visa that were covered on Payment Expert today. They've just done their 10 billionth, issued their 10 billionth Visa token as part of their tokenization efforts.
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doing now for the better part of a decade so that was quite interesting to hear that was a exclusively told at Money2020 so yeah also some great panels by Meta they were talking about subscription payments and how they can how a company can you know diversify and modernize our subscription payments which is you know one of the biggest payment sectors in the world right so
Yeah, there's been a lot to digest, there's been a lot to unpack and then we've got a lot more to cover tomorrow on Payment Expert. But no, I think it's been a really good day so far. Yeah, it's been good, Joe. It's really interesting because just from hearing you speak there, you know, you mentioned Veezy, you mentioned Revolut and you also mentioned Meta. It just shows that there's legacy brands there, there's challenger brands there, there's tech brands there. Bringing all those brands together, really.
It's a melting pot of ideas and innovation and I guess it's been cool to be part of that. No, no, definitely. No, it's just, it just goes to show the kind of like the enormity and the scale of how this event has grown over the past several years. So, yeah, last time I came here two years ago, I thought it was big and it's gone even bigger now with different halls, walking about. I mean, it's been a bit tiring walking to and back and forth from stages. I almost feel like I'm running a marathon. But...
No, it's been really rewarding hearing some of these payment leaders from Revolut and Meta, Mastercard, Visa. And so, no, I think it's been really insightful and really rewarding. Amazing, yeah. It really sounds top -notch, super interesting. And Kieran, you're a little bit newer to the payment industry, so I guess this has been fascinating for you. Yeah, so it's been my first time here in Amsterdam. And also, I suppose you could say it's my first time...
even at a payment sort of exhibit like this and what events are coming to. It's absolutely huge. There's loads going on, loads of people to speak to. I've done three panels today. I would say that every single one of them offered some really good insight. So yeah, I'm really enjoying it. What were the panels? So the first panel, which was probably the best one of the day, sort of kicking it off, that was about CBDCs.
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What made that special was they opened it up and I think they're doing this with a lot of the panels around here. They're only that 20 -25 minute panels but they're opening up to the audience, getting questions in, sort of, it's quite interactive. And just straight from the off, one of the first panels of the day, a guy went to the CBDC panel and pretty much told them that the CBDCs are pointless and he doesn't understand what they are or what they're for.
So you really put it on the panellists straight away, but to be fair to them, they answered it back, replied back fantastically and they sort of explained to everyone just what CBDC is, just the future of that technology. So yeah, that was quite eventful. Yeah, I guess there's always been this thing in Calama, I guess you'll attest to this as well, that CBDC's stifling innovation within crypto and they stifle the growth of blockchain and...
Is that something that was replicated in the panel, Kieran, or did they get the, you know, was there a receptiveness to CBDCs? Obviously that one person you mentioned, but did they kind of win the crowd over when it comes to CBDCs being this necessity and not this hindrance? Yeah, so I think one good thing, like you mentioned, though, they sort of did win the crowd over. I think part of that come from them being truthful, transparent.
They weren't trying to big CBDCs up as this is going to take over from cash. It's the next new thing. Everyone needs to adopt it. The people on the panel were technicians. So the panel was called Architects in CBDCs in the Future. So they were sort of talking about how there's a lot of work to be done in regulation side, but also technical side. And just sort of talk about possibilities rather than forcing it on people. So yeah, I do think they won people over in the crowd.
Really interesting and Callum, it's always good to hear from you on crypto. You are the developed a bit of a reputation as knowing, knowing your stuff on crypto, having a bit of crypto expertise. Comic, comic crypto Callum. I didn't want to say it, but trademark it. But yeah, well, where do you sit on that debate? What in terms of, yeah, in terms of CBC season? Well, I had to, you know what? I had a really good conversation with Sean Forward, who's the UK CEO of Payable.
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We weren't even meant to be really talking about stable coins and CBDCs but we just kind of fell into it in terms of what does the next 10 years of financial and payment innovation look like and we both kind of agreed that stable coins are coming, they're coming in the UK, the legislation is about to land this year if not early next year if any government party is getting their way of that. I know we've got an election coming up but...
No, and CBDCs, I think we both agreed, will take about five to ten years to even agree for the Bank of England to agree upon CBDCs, but there's been a whole host of countries like Japan, India, who are just really researching, piloting these CBDC cases. So I know it's got its critics, and there were a lot of critics that happened to be in the US, they wanted it banned. I think Trump more than...
more than most once it banned. But I think it's going to be inevitable at some point that we're going to start seeing these type of digital currencies kind of not just sit alongside traditional currencies, but maybe even overtake them in a couple of years time. That's really interesting. And it's I guess the eyes of the world will be on, you know, the markets that have embraced it just to see how it plays out. And it's going to be fascinating, though, to see to see what happens in those markets that have.
embrace CBD season. Kieran, you mentioned you've been at three panels today. That was the first, obviously, a really good start with that one. How did you follow up? What else have you been at? Yeah, so straight from that, I went to a panel about the rise of digital wallets. And sort of what they discussed in that was how these two wallets are sort of going to become not just for paying, it's going to be ID, it's going to be used to verify health. It's pretty much just going to be like you take your wallet out.
And like many of these things in payments, a lot of the talk was around regulation and trying to get that passed because when it comes to a lot of data, obviously there's a lot of regulation that needs to go into that. But that was quite exciting. And then the third panel to end the day was a really good one again. That was Big Banks talking about the USEB AI and especially GEN AI. So that was really interesting, really good panelists on that. Yeah, really good.
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Yeah, it's I'd be lying if I said I wasn't envious of you guys actually because the conversations you're privy to seem fascinating and it's this balance of bringing this new technology, this kind of niche, edgy technology that's disruptive into the mainstream and bringing these two sections together and getting them to work together. Have a great day tomorrow lads and thank you ever so much for reporting back today. Look forward to hearing from you on what day two holds and yeah, keep.
Keep tabs on payment expert for all the news from Money2020.