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A podcast that spotlights the women reshaping the hospitality industry, breaking barriers, and carving their paths in the ever-evolving world of restaurants, food, and community.
Sara Abernethy (00:36)
Today's guest is Dr. Anne McBride. She is the Vice President of Impact at the James Beard Foundation and oversees all of the foundation's programs and initiatives around policy advocacy, research, training, including the Women's Entrepreneurial Leadership Program, which I had the privilege of participating in.
winter of 2024. I think you will hear me talk about that in every single episode because it was so impactful. she also oversees the publication of the foundation's annual independent restaurant industry report, and so much more. There's such a wealth of incredible free resources.
through the James Beard Foundation on their website, jamesbeard.org. I really encourage you to check that out if you haven't already. So Anne is a total baddie. I have really been in awe of her and how she juggles so many complex programs all at once. She also has co-authored seven books.
and written extensively about professional and experimental cooking for academic and consumer audiences. I'm really excited for you to hear a little bit about her journey. at the time of releasing this episode, the James Beard Foundation,
is currently accepting applicants for the next cohort of the WEL program, Applications are open through their website, jamesbeard.org, and they close on June 1st. So if you are a woman or you identify as a woman and you are an independent restaurant owner, please, please, please consider this program. It's like a crash course in business acumen and financial literacy.
that I wish I had had before going into business. And I also have met so many wonderful friends through that experience. So do not sleep on that opportunity. please enjoy my conversation with Anne McBride.
Anne McBride, PhD (02:37)
I but it's sunny and that, so I would rather cold and sunny than mid and gray.
Sara Abernethy (02:46)
feel like you guys got walloped.
Anne McBride, PhD (02:48)
We really did. Yeah. And it's not just the quantity of snow, it's the ice that came on top of it. So everything is still frozen because we've had such cold temperatures, but it's warming up. It's in the thirties this week. So it feels like spring.
Sara Abernethy (03:05)
Well, yesterday here in North Carolina, was 65 degrees. Yeah. That's OK. It's OK. We got an ice storm on a Saturday, and then the following Saturday, a snowstorm. And it really did. It wrecked restaurants here. It was just so brutal to have that happen in January of all times.
Anne McBride, PhD (03:26)
Yeah, that's the conversations I've been having. A lot of people have had just because it's been so cold in so much of the country since mid December. Yeah. So it's been really bad for restaurants, but with Valentine's Day, hopefully fixing that and then.
Sara Abernethy (03:40)
Hopefully. Yeah. I mean, Valentine's Day on a Saturday, we also don't love maybe the public loves but we don't love that. Yeah, but it's okay. I have to say I'm very proud of my sweet angel baby husband who after 15 years of being together finally got the memo that I love it if he puts in effort to make arrangements for us to go out to dinner.
He doesn't like to do that because going out feels like work for him. He would so much rather stay at home and cook. But we're actually going out to.
Anne McBride, PhD (04:12)
Nice! It's also smart to not go on Valentine's Day.
Sara Abernethy (04:16)
I mean, I'm a Monday Tuesday diner outer all day Yeah, seriously, give me a 430 reservation We're going to have sushi So and I didn't have to make a single decision or coordinate a single thing so it's just like the most wonderful gift
Anne McBride, PhD (04:27)
What are you having tonight?
Lovely.
I love when my husband does that too. But then he doesn't do it too often because he says that I like things a certain way. Uh huh. It's true, but I also love nothing more than having zero decisions to make. So at this point, any surprise is a great surprise if I haven't had to plan anything.
Sara Abernethy (04:44)
Like you like things a certain way? Is that true?
I agree 100%. It's just, this is the era that I'm in right now. It's so nice not to be in charge.
Anne McBride, PhD (05:06)
And we met on Valentine's Day, so we don't go out typically, but ⁓ we'll do something. Where did you meet? We met at a party in Louisiana in college. ⁓ He was DJing and I crashed the party with some friends and saw him from the door and was like, I'm not leaving, without that guy's number? And we moved in about four or five days later.
Sara Abernethy (05:12)
See you.
That's the guy.
Stop it!
Anne McBride, PhD (05:33)
Yeah,
and that was 28 years ago. It'll be 28 years on Saturday that we met.
Sara Abernethy (05:38)
My
gosh. That's so sweet. I mean, it's sweet because it worked out. Did I already tell you you were cuckoo bananas?
Anne McBride, PhD (05:50)
college, you know, it's like you just kind of...
Sara Abernethy (05:53)
it. Yeah. So you went to school in New Orleans? wow. Yeah. I was going to ask you what brought you over here from Switzerland and was that it?
Anne McBride, PhD (05:57)
in Lafayette, Louisiana.
That was it. I grew up in a village of 800 people in the French speaking Swiss Alps over the lake of Geneva.
No, I mean, obviously it's gorgeous and I wouldn't trade it for anything, but it's also you grew up in a village of 800 people and in the Alps. So like I couldn't go to the movies with friends because the last train home was at like 830, you know, as a teenager, all these things.
Sara Abernethy (06:30)
Yeah.
Anne McBride, PhD (06:31)
So I wanted
something
different for college and Lafayette, Louisiana was pretty radically different from Grillon, Switzerland.
Sara Abernethy (06:41)
Do you still have family in the area?
Anne McBride, PhD (06:44)
So my whole family is still there between Switzerland and France.
Sara Abernethy (06:47)
Gosh, so Louisiana. Wow, that's very different. Yeah. Very different.
And then, so was it NYU that brought you to New York? Did you go to New York straight after college?
Anne McBride, PhD (07:01)
Yes, but no, my husband's from New Jersey. Okay. And so when we got married, just before I graduated, and he had graduated the year before, and his parents were like what his degree was in industrial design and mine in journalism, not as many opportunities in Lafayette, Louisiana as in New York. So his parents who lived in New Jersey said, why don't you come up? You can live with us. Since we were married, we could live with them
And you can look for jobs in New York. So that's what we did.
Sara Abernethy (07:31)
How long were you shacking up with the in-laws?
Anne McBride, PhD (07:34)
⁓ Eight months.
Sara Abernethy (07:35)
I definitely have a newfound appreciation for moments of shacking up with my in-laws they they live in Los Angeles and they make the effort several times a year to come out here and visit us and they nice ever since having kids it's a game changer. and they really do help a lot but I don't know if I could I don't know if I could move all the way in unless it was like a
Sorry, Pam & Jerry I love you so much if you're listening to this. ⁓
I don't know if I could move in with an undefined timeline, but hey, you gotta do what you gotta do. I hope you guys saved a ton of money while you were doing this.
Anne McBride, PhD (08:12)
did.
Yeah, because we didn't have jobs when we when we moved here. So a very grateful and it was definitely that's how I got that's how I got into what I wanted to do though, because I started my way of regaining my time living all together like that was I kind of would live at night. Yeah, so I would watch in Louisiana, we didn't have Food Network or anything like that. So I had never heard of Julia Child, for example. And no,
Like in Louisiana, Marcel Bienvenue is the queen. you know, like I had grown up or I had not grown up, but I had been in college with different figures. And I wanted to be a war reporter for the AP when I was in college. So I wasn't thinking about food or anything like that as a career. And then I would watch Food Network through the night when we first moved up here.
I like, this is amazing. That's what I want to do. So I started applying to cookbook publishing companies and that's how I started. So it was thanks to living with my in-laws, watching a lot of Food Network through the night and applying to these jobs and getting one.
Sara Abernethy (09:23)
That is sort of how it happens, isn't it? The universe has a way of taking you where you need to be. So, what was your first gig?
Anne McBride, PhD (09:32)
I was a cookbook editor at at Hippocrates Books, which is still in business, something like 40 some years now. No, actually 50. ⁓ It was a small independent publishing company publishing mostly ⁓ international cookbooks and language books, dictionaries, vocabulary books, et cetera, and some history books as well.
Sara Abernethy (09:56)
It sounds ⁓ like the beginning of an early aughts romcom. You going into the city at your publishing job, editing cookbooks. ⁓ And you're from Europe and I just that's it sounds fabulous. But what was that really like in the publishing world? I am very curious about this because something on my radar in the next 10 years I love creating
things and bringing ideas to life from nothing. And one of the questions I do have is, mean, eventually, should I try and pursue some kind of cookbook ⁓ with connection to one of the restaurants and do it as a collaboration with our company chef, Bobby McFarland? is that, you know, would that be fun? Would that be good? A good direction for the restaurant? But I'd love to know more about your experience in that world.
Anne McBride, PhD (10:55)
I would say and I've co-authored seven books. ⁓ So what I always tell chefs when I start the process with them is you have to do it as you have to think of it as a marketing tool. You're not going to make any money off of it. Right. But you know, if you have a story to tell that is compelling and great food and an audience that supports you meaning will buy your books. I think it's absolutely something worth pursuing. Also, because it
forces you to step back a little bit and think through what you've created, you know, in the lifespan of your businesses and what you want to say to people who might never had you create that experience and convey that story to people who might never actually set foot in your restaurant if they're buying your book from like Cleveland or LA or Boston. So it's a very different way to talk to think about what you're doing. So if that's something you want to do, you absolutely should do it.
Sara Abernethy (11:49)
I mean, what else would you tell someone like me? What would you tell those of us who might think like, I should write a cookbook? I mean, definitely, I think that's a great piece of advice. It's not going to be a revenue generator. It is a marketing investment. Great piece of advice. what was the process for each of these books very similar? Or was the process very different for each of your seven?
Anne McBride, PhD (12:11)
the gist of it is always kind of the same in the sense that you want to have a book proposal before you do an actual book with a couple of them. The chef was a big enough name that the proposals were very simple, just a few pages recipe list. ⁓ Because it was about, you know, his name more than anything in terms of guaranteeing the market if you want.
And the proposal with a friend who has written numerous cookbooks, award winning, she writes really gorgeous books, ⁓ really smart ones. We always talk about the fact that the proposal is the most brutal part of the process. And it can almost take you as long as the actual book. Because you need to nail it, right? Like having a really strong proposal is what will will allow you to get an agent.
It's what will allow you to get a better advance, if people feel that it's really solid. it's investing the right amount of time in preparing a really strong proposal is really key. then writing the book after that, you just follow what you've outlined in the proposal and the format that you've developed for your sample chapter or sample recipes. Exactly. Yeah. So that part gets easier.
Sara Abernethy (13:19)
already have a roadmap.
Anne McBride, PhD (13:23)
⁓ Because the proposal, that's where you're thinking through the idea, what you're conveying, what's unique about what you're doing, what would make someone want to buy your book, the market has changed a lot, obviously. The cookbooks are still the type of books that people buy, which is great compared to others where it's a lot harder.
to sell novels or these kinds of things. But cookbooks are still doing well. And then there's so many ways to self-publish also now where, when I started 25 years ago, you self-published only if no one wanted to buy your book. And now a lot of people self-publish because it means you can have a book out in a timeframe that doesn't require two years, right?
from the moment your book is acquired to the moment it's published, it's about two years. so you lose the benefit of having editors, et cetera, but you can also pay people to be your editors if you want to self publish and do it faster.
Sara Abernethy (14:18)
would you say that there's a cost benefit to self-publishing?
Anne McBride, PhD (14:25)
self publishing, you won't be in every bookstore everywhere the same way as if you are with a with a publisher that has a good distribution network, you'll be in more places. So self publishing often either you need to print physical copies of your book and schlep them with you or you can have them at the restaurants. And then people buy online but it's it might not be in as many locations online. I mean, Amazon is obviously
enormous and where most people will get things. if you want it to be with independent bookstores, et cetera, being with a mainstream publisher or a publisher that has a distribution network, that makes that a little bit easier.
Sara Abernethy (15:07)
It is something I want to do. I struggle, as I'm sure many of us do, with a little bit of imposter syndrome about that. ⁓ And the thought of, well, god, there's just so many cookbooks. What would make yours different? And why would you do it?
I think I'm very clear on the why. mean, I would do it to just like you said, to encapsulate the story of putting together this restaurant and reflect back on what we've created. And for Wye Hill specifically, would be a love letter to Raleigh for sure, as my hometown. And it's such an iconic location in Raleigh, but we'll see. It's more of a five to 10 year dream.
Anne McBride, PhD (15:47)
has published cookbooks. So regional publishers can be very supportive. mean, UNC is obviously a national publisher, but rooted in the community who will and they'll publish books about North Carolina specifically, right? Or with an anchor in North Carolina. So, you know, that could be something to look at.
Sara Abernethy (16:05)
So how did you then get from publishing into this swirl of advocacy and food and chefs literally saving the
I really feel like what you guys are doing at the James Beard Foundation, I mean, you're covering so many complex and nuanced big issues. It's just so awesome. And in your role, I imagine a lot of what you're doing is saying, hey, this is how
we're moving the needle on these things through all these programs. But big question.
Anne McBride, PhD (16:37)
Yes.
The while you were like you were saying that, publishing job in New York sounds glamorous. It was definitely the roughing it in New York as a 20 something. I was making $24,000 a year at the end of the pay periods was one of my co workers was really small. It was like three of us full time basically, we would split a cup of coffee because we could not afford to each buy a cup of coffee.
I have really fond memories of those days. I feel like in your 20s, that's part of the gig, right? I lived in Jersey with my husband. He lived in Brooklyn with like four roommates. Another co-worker lived in a railroad apartment in Brooklyn with her sister. That's what you do and you're broke. ⁓
Sara Abernethy (17:22)
It was some of the best time I didn't work in publishing I worked at Brother Jimmy's next to Madison Square Garden if you ever went there but it was some of the best days of my life. ⁓
Anne McBride, PhD (17:32)
Yeah, it's fun to do it that way. And so it was a very small publishing company was a small staff. So we're doing absolutely everything. And like the last couple of years, I was editor in chief, which was ridiculous, because I was 25 years old, and I had no business having that kind of title. But I was running all of the editorial side of the company, from acquisition of manuscript to all the editing process, the public the publicity piece and the sales meetings.
So was great because just definitely learned a lot. ⁓ And I realized I really like the publicity piece of it, like thinking about how to sell the products. I was like, let me let me give that a shot. It did a very brief stint for six months
did not like that whatsoever. I was missing the creative writing versus the press release type of writing. I didn't like pitching and all of this.
But through that very short stint, I met a chef that ended up writing three cookbooks with so you know, even that very short, those six months really paid off for years afterwards. And then I started working in communications at the Institute of Culinary Education, in a cooking school. And I was working on my master's in food studies at the same time. then two years at NYU, correct. Yeah.
And then I applied into the PhD program. And as part of that, I was going to start teaching and the, would have needed to like take Tuesdays off from work and work on Saturdays. I was like, that's just, I'm going to be so drained. So I decided to go freelance at that point. And I stayed five more years with ICE editing their newsletter while starting, while working on my PhD. So then that's when I started doing a lot of things.
was teaching, I was taking other gigs, was planning a lot of programs, just how I got more into the program world. we started something at NYU called the Experimental Cuisine Collective between food studies, chemistry, and a chef, and looking at the intersection
of science and food. was a time of like, you know, molecular gastronomy was a thing. A lot of chefs were working with a lot of scientists and artists, a lot of these collaborations started. And so that really got me into the programming world, because every month for seven years or something like that, we had a program at NYU with speakers from
Europe and from throughout the U S who came to that and really built a community, an intellectual community around these questions. That was really great and kind of a dream in terms of being in rooms where like nerdy conversations happen. And I just love that.
Sara Abernethy (20:05)
That's amazing. But must have been very busy if you were spinning that many plates.
Anne McBride, PhD (20:14)
I always love that though. You
I'm not good if I'm not busy. So ⁓ yeah, was definitely a busy time because I was I had many jobs as I was writing cookbooks teaching like I was coupling an income from a lot of different. ⁓ But all things that I love doing, which felt very privileged.
Sara Abernethy (20:28)
lot of different things.
So you had sort of some publishing projects and then some teaching revenue and then I mean, did you have anything that was sort of random that you just plugged in there to make a paycheck or?
Anne McBride, PhD (20:48)
Well, I always tell people when they want to go freelance or like, you know, leave their main job, what's your you need a bread and butter clients. And so I was doing the newsletter at the Institute of culinary education as a freelancer. So that was my bread and butter, So I had a big project three times a year, and that would kind of keep me going for like, you know, the day to day.
and then cookbooks, you know, that, it's like one every couple of years or something like that I did. those are also, you know, it's not paid in all one big sum. So it also helps because as a freelancer, sometimes you have like, if you get everything at once, but you need to stretch it for two years of a cookbook project, for example.
And then I started at
of America, which is where I really, I was the Culinary Programs Director and working on several of their conferences, all chef-driven ones.
Sara Abernethy (21:41)
that role similar and different to where you're at today at JBF?
Anne McBride, PhD (21:46)
that's a very good question. I think at JBF, I cover more ground in a way, you know, we do research training and advocacy. We don't do as summits or these kinds of things. At CI8 was very, there was no cohorts of programs. The way there is with your program or our Chef Bootcamp or its cohorts like that for, you know, 10 weeks in the case of WEL three days in the case of Bootcamp.
At CIA, the model is around professional continuing education conferences, if you want. So I would work on a number of these conferences that take place, each takes place once. So you're around different topics and audiences. And so that's the biggest difference. Whereas at JBF, it's more akin to an academic schedule almost, where it's like you have a semester long program. ⁓
Yeah, even with bootcamp now they're spending three days together, but it's really a six months part because we have follow up zooms and they do a final presentation after six months talking about their advocacy work. ⁓ So that's from a format. It's different from a content. I think what I did at CIA that's very useful at JBF is thinking about how to translate information for chefs. So
I would put people on stage at CIA for an audience of high volume professionals, FNB professionals. So how to translate what someone is doing in a 24 seat restaurant in a way that resonates with someone who is a corporate chef who has to feed 5 million meals over the course of a year, right? Like you're not going to use tweezers in the same capacity. so that was one thing that's really useful in terms of thinking of
what's useful, how to organize information, how to communicate it in a way that resonates with an audience of restaurant industry professionals who have very limited time. And at the same time, who need to know so much more in order to do what they're doing. mean, look, you're a podcaster, you're an accountant, you are CEO and a dishwasher. Like you do all of these things and you have to know about
policy, public health, nutrition, whatever, know, ⁓ GLP-1s ones, like all these things that impact what you're doing. How do you get that information and who gives it to you in a way that you can trust? So that's what I was doing at CIA that also very much continues here.
Sara Abernethy (24:19)
So for those listening, let me run through some of the incredible programming available to our industry from the James Beard Foundation. And Anne, can correct me and border-calling me. I like to use the term border-calling affectionately in the context of our. OK, so we have the Women's Entrepreneurial Leadership.
Anne McBride, PhD (24:37)
love it.
Sara Abernethy (24:43)
program, which is where I first met Anne. is a program that I applied for, was accepted to, and participated in in 2024. A semester long program. And the way I describe it to people is like, it is a crash course business school for restaurant ladies. It's just like could not have been more perfectly
for me at that period. And it was so transformational. And I'm so grateful to have been able to participate in that.
So we have the WEL program. We also have the Women's Financial Literacy Summit, which happens once a year in January, a two-day workshop where you just get a crash course in the basics of financials. And I have also attended this program and just been totally blown away with it. Mostly just it was so validating, and even the second time going to it, so validating to be in a room of women.
who are just there to learn. in fact, can be a total beginner and feel like, my God, I'm not alone. Or like, my God, just, other people are going through the same thing you are. That was so powerful. Then we have the Chef Bootcamp for Policy and Climate Change. Policy and Change, sorry, Policy and Change. But then there's a Climate Change Program, isn't there?
Anne McBride, PhD (25:53)
PolicienChange.
We have an advocacy campaign called Climate Solutions for Restaurant Survival that talks about the economic impact of climate change on the restaurant industry. So we advocate there with lawmakers, educate lawmakers, the media, et cetera, on the challenges for restaurants.
Sara Abernethy (26:17)
And what other programs am I missing that you are overseeing year over year?
Anne McBride, PhD (26:22)
We have a legacy program that cohort is ongoing right now, which is a mentorship program ⁓ for underrepresented industry, restaurants and also small businesses, CPG. That one goes a little bit beyond restaurants, the restaurant world.
Sara Abernethy (26:39)
That's I looked at that. I thought I might get a lot out of both and being a buddy to somebody and also being someone's mentee.
Anne McBride, PhD (26:51)
And it's a lifelong thing. You should always want to be someone's mentee.
Sara Abernethy (26:54)
I, yes, yes. Always learning, always learning. I mean, it's just a tremendous wealth of programming that is available, not to mention all the resources on the JBF website that are available to restaurateurs and anybody in food and beverage really, but there is definitely a concerted effort to help level the field with those of us who are not.
Anne McBride, PhD (26:56)
You
Sara Abernethy (27:21)
white cis men in this industry, right?
Anne McBride, PhD (27:25)
Indeed, and it's very different. ⁓ And we do have resources for men as well, because we do hear a lot. It's great you have this workshop, this financial literacy workshop for women, but I need that as well. we have, this year we'll do a couple of workshops around the country. We also try to do things like we do advocacy roundtables around the country and to expand our educational programming around the country as well.
⁓ So to do some things around financial literacy and leadership also, there's a lot. You know, I think it's easy to be thrown in a leadership position, but no one ever really taught you how to be a good leader. You learn by knowing what you don't want to do because of the bad leaders you've had. ⁓
Sara Abernethy (28:06)
Learn
by making mistakes yourself that are... ...clean. ...helping.
Anne McBride, PhD (28:09)
Exactly.
Yeah, so, you know, how can we support that with some leadership training skills? ⁓ And we have a business acumen curriculum also, ⁓ that we are raising funds to be able to develop an offer ⁓ much more broadly. ⁓ But the financial literacy workshop for women and well, you know, to point about white, white sys ⁓ men having dominated that a lot, it's very important.
You were saying you were in a room where you feel very free to express any knowledge you don't have and ask any questions and there's no judgment.
Sara Abernethy (28:49)
I really felt comfortable asking the question, is not that is not something that I take lightly that you should take lightly creating that environment and that vibe where women feel comfortable asking the question. Yeah, no matter what the question is.
Anne McBride, PhD (29:05)
Exactly. That's really, really key to have.
we measure confidence for all of our program. That's one of our metrics, how confident are people before and after. And it's always so incredible to see and also to just hear some of the testimonies. I think it was at one of the financial literacy workshop you attended, one woman came to me the morning of the second day and was like,
You know, I spent all of yesterday listening to the speakers and also worrying because I was supposed to open next weekend, but I was $40,000 short and was like, my dream is falling apart. I'll never be able to open. And thanks to what I heard yesterday, I called my investors last night and told them, and they said, of course, and I have $40,000 now that I can, and I can open next week. You know, it's just, it's incredible to know that, and what had happened if this woman had not been in that room.
Sara Abernethy (29:58)
What if she hadn't come?
Anne McBride, PhD (30:00)
And how many stories are there of women who are not in those rooms, right? And ⁓ don't get to have that confidence and then their dreams don't happen or they close a business when they could have probably made it work, all these kinds of things. So it's really important to support business owners from that perspective for us and business owners who haven't had that kind of support.
Sara Abernethy (30:22)
And the message I would like to share to anybody listening is just put your name in the mix, like, apply for the program, sign up for the workshop I can speak to it as you know, somebody coming in for the first time, it was really intimidating filling out all that stuff like the James Beard Foundation. It's very, it feels very serious. And then I got in the room and that my first financial literacy workshop was right before I started WEL and I kid you not, it felt like going to summer camp.
That's how it felt. It was so fun and so lively and everyone was so friendly and welcoming. I just investing in myself two years ago, starting with the financial literacy program has just been absolutely immeasurable for my personal and professional development. I can't say enough about it. So I thank you for that. And I mean, the well program, many of the ladies in my cohort, you will all hear on.
the first thing think of, her seated at the table. No, but it's just, it's been such a wonderful opportunity to make friends and it's lonely. think you said it opening up the workshop this year. it feels so lonely, but you are not alone. And people, operators, any operator should know that they are not alone.
Anne McBride, PhD (31:36)
And I think a lot of people not from the industry don't realize how lonely of a business it is because it's so social, right? So the perception is you're always surrounded by people. It's how can you be alone? But you never leave your restaurant. The number of times when we are in a city, we do a round table and it's the first time in a year that two chefs are hanging or two owners are hanging out together.
despite the best promises because They don't have the time to make, to spend ⁓ with their peers.
Sara Abernethy (32:09)
What would you say, I said, your role, you are moving forward a lot of very big things and you're trying to find ways to measure these very squishy subjective concepts. As you look into the next five years, what would you say is top of mind for impact at JBF? What are you guys really leaning into?
Anne McBride, PhD (32:33)
So we're leaning into business resiliency and really scaling up what we're offering in terms of ⁓ business training and financial training. also we're scaling up that and we're scaling up the advocacy work also. We are in times when it's more important than ever to get your voice heard. And it's hard because it's one more thing
the industry has to take on in addition to running your business, being a podcaster, a dishwasher, you now also need to be an advocate.
It's so important and being, being a business owner, a community leader, someone who talks to farmers, to suppliers, to media, to diners, et cetera, that really gives such power when talking to lawmakers and lawmakers tend to really like eating out.
Yeah. So it works well. They love having chefs around and talking about the issues. So there's a real need there. And also because we work with chefs and restaurant operators and owners in all 50 states, depending on what needs to move where in Congress, for example, or what's happening where we can be like, okay, chefs in South Dakota, we need you to be making calls to this particular person.
and then we see also with the Chef Bootcamp for Policy and Change, when we're actually able to take people to DC, that whole experience goes from theoretical to, wow, this is happening. So wanting to do a little bit more of that because once you get empowered, we had an immigration flying in October and one of the chefs who was part of it was paralyzed at the beginning. He had just finished bootcamp and he was really, really nervous about having these meetings and
Then after a few meetings in the afternoon, he was like, I am here representing the entire restaurant industry. And he was, and he did a beautiful job, the only way to get over that anxiety was really just to be in a room with a senator and be like, okay, cool, I can have that conversation and express what I need to.
Sara Abernethy (34:40)
That's so powerful. I want to do more of that.
in action on the floor that, from a national lens, I guess, that we should be aware of that we might not be? I know,
maybe we shouldn't table it, maybe we should get into it, but it's just so painful at this moment to be witnessing what's happening in our country for ⁓ a workforce that relies so heavily on labor from.
folks who are not from this country as well as just being a huge employer. Independent restaurants are a huge employer for our whole country.
Anne McBride, PhD (35:19)
we always talk about the workforce, but and I don't have the stats in front of me. But you one of the things that's important for us in terms of the narrative, it's immigrants in this country are not in our industry, are not just doing the work that no one else wants. An enormous, significant percentage of restaurant owners are foreign born. Executive chefs are foreign born,
It's an industry that allows you to celebrate your culture no matter where you're from. So of course, a lot of people who come to this country want to then share their culture and their food culture with people by opening restaurants.
Sara Abernethy (35:52)
what makes dining out exciting is a collaboration and fusion of cultures getting transported to another place within the boundaries of your own city and state and community. mean, it's what makes life exciting and flavorful and joyful. It's just been so heartbreaking to see what's been happening all over.
Anne McBride, PhD (36:18)
And it's hard to know what to do. this probably will air after this fight. But right now there's the budget funding DHS and without guardrails. So some of the things that we've been asking people to do is make calls to your lawmakers asking for guardrails. So sometimes it's not necessarily saying vote yes or no. I mean, in this case, it's like vote no for this bill if it doesn't have guardrails.
⁓ We talk a lot about what's defense versus what's offense on certain things. And really being vocal is key. Being vocal is key. It is intimidating to make calls to lawmakers, but that's what their offices are for. even if you are in a state where if your representation matches your...
your Republican, your congressman is a Republican or Democrats, your senators, Democrat, et cetera. So you might be like, oh, I don't need to be making calls because we're aligned. It's like, no, actually you want to make these calls because they need to be affirmed. And then they show up on the floor in Congress and saying, my office has received 10,000 calls this week on this one issue, So we have scripts for our climate campaign. We have scripts on our website that people can follow to make a call.
to write an op-ed, to write a letter to the editor. There's all these ways. And then, one of the things that I always tell chefs at bootcamp is right now, if all you can do as an advocate is keep your restaurants open, that's a lot. And there's a lot you can do with that. Because sometimes you don't have the time or the energy you want to, but it might be six months until you're ready. that's happened. People who've done bootcamp, and then six months or a year later,
I'll get a text saying, hey, can we chat? I have some more bandwidth now. The restaurant is going well. Like my staffing issues were resolved. What can I do now to use my voice? And some people, you know, have at the last bootcamp, we had people who flew straight from bootcamp to the hill to be advocating. So it ranges really from that, having a, keeping your business open, your staff employed. That's a form of advocacy because you're
serving your community and you're also making good decisions around purchasing the farmers you're working with, all of these, and that makes a big difference.
Sara Abernethy (38:45)
I think it's so important for us to remember that the small consistent actions over time really are powerful. It feels so unrelenting and it feels so impossible right now to affect any kind of change. But we cannot forget that the drip, drip, drip, drip of phone calls to a senator of
of emails, of reaching out and making your voice heard is something that we're all capable of doing. over time, that is what bends the arc of history, I would say.
Anne McBride, PhD (39:24)
Exactly. And who comes to your business? might come, a congresswoman comes to your restaurant and wants to chill and not necessarily be but they're also public figures and they work for you. So you have ways to engage them and ask for their time, get the card of a staffer to have a follow up meeting. There's all these things that you can do just because of the access that you have as a restaurant owner.
Sara Abernethy (39:50)
One of our elected representatives is a neighbor of Wye Hill. We see her walking her dog almost every day. Yeah. Hey, girl. Yeah.
Anne McBride, PhD (40:00)
local level there's so much your mayor, your city council, your state delegation, it's not just at the federal level, we're also do because so much is paralyzed at the federal level, we're also doing more work in the states, because the training we give ultimately works on any type of elected official, right? Like, it's not just for federal. So also supporting what some chefs are doing at the state level, how can we help them there? And including making connections, I mean,
A lot of times it's, I'll mention an example and like someone in Texas, one of our bootcamp alum in Texas just advocated for a bill passed and is saving tens of thousands of dollars to restaurant owners because it was about double taxation where you have to, pay a tax when you buy appliances, but then every year you have to pay more taxes on it. And so he testified in the Texas legislature and that
passed as a bill that caps that. a chef, I mentioned it at another boot camp and a chef in Mississippi reached out a few months later and was like, Hey, can you put me in touch with that person? What are the details of this? want to pass that in Mississippi. So these kind of the informal aspect of just sharing anecdotes is something that,
I want to scale, want to structure that at JBF in a way that it doesn't just depend on me telling things, but how do we share more case studies, more testimonies, all of that. So you could go to jamesbeard.org and find all of this without needing me to tell you the story.
Sara Abernethy (41:31)
even just getting it out if someone isn't thinking to go to the website, how do you get it in front of their eyeballs just to have their experience reflected back? Yeah, you know, like, I could do that. That applies to me. Or I could take that and run with it in my own restaurant community, whatever. That's a big task. A lot of big tasks on your plate there, Anne but you clearly do love
figuring those complex puzzles out. And it is a long game, I imagine. How long have you been in this role?
Anne McBride, PhD (42:07)
⁓ Four and half years almost it'll be five in July
Sara Abernethy (42:11)
I mean, I'm sure that already there's stuff that's sort of barely come to fruition after five years of your time and efforts.
Anne McBride, PhD (42:19)
there's always so much more to do. But it's never hard because I love this industry so much. And the people in this industry are so incredible, that it really feels like an honor and a privilege to get to work with people like you, you know, like that you are who I spend my time with. And what better people to want to spend time with and work for.
Sara Abernethy (42:42)
I agree. ⁓ mean, restaurant people are my people. Yeah. And for me, also the theater people are my people. But a lot of crossover. We say all the time that on dinner service is just like putting on a show back at our theater where we met in San Diego. lot of similarities.
Anne McBride, PhD (42:51)
There's a lot of crossover.
Sara Abernethy (43:05)
is there anything that you would want any of our listeners to know about the James Beard Foundation coming up in the next year or anything to look out for pay attention to?
Anne McBride, PhD (43:16)
I mean, thank you for mentioning the fact that we have a lot of online resources, except a lot of people don't know that yet. We record all our webinars and put them on the website. We've recorded two different financial literacy workshops so people can access that. that's a really big thing because it's also a thing I encourage folks to tell their teams about. know, like one of the things we hear the most as an obstacle to people staying in the industry is the lack of
continuing education and training and leadership training basically or knowing where you want to go. And it's hard when you're running a business, how much continuing education can you provide your staff, et cetera? ⁓ So we have a lot of things that people can take advantage of. And that's something I really want to grow more of. ⁓ within the next few months, we'll be relaunched. We have a resource center on the website, but we'll relaunch it basically.
with more there in the structure that does allow for more case studies and different organization of information to make it even easier for people to use.
Sara Abernethy (44:22)
so happy to toot that horn. I'll toot that horn today on our slack to the team. And then I'll toot the horn when we release this episode later this year. Thank you. It is amazing. Well, Anne thank you so much. Where can folks find you who want to learn more?
Anne McBride, PhD (44:40)
So jamesbeard.org and then on that click on the impact tab which takes you through all of our training. have an annual industry report, independent restaurant industry report that we do with Deloitte and that's coming out in February. We do webinars around this, both a launch webinar where if you don't want to read the 40 page report, you can just listen and get the top stats. But we'll also do some continuing education based on some of the findings.
a lot around AI and tech because that's come up a lot. So that's something to look forward to. So on the impact tab of JamesBeard.org, you have access to our reports, any other research that we do, all of the training. And then for, we always announce all of our program applications through our social channels. So at Beard Foundation on Instagram, on LinkedIn, ⁓ we have a newsletter also.
that people can sign up for and get that kind of information. And then I'm on LinkedIn and Instagram under my name.
Sara Abernethy (45:38)
Amazing.
And thank you. adore you. Thank you so much for sharing your time and your expertise. And it's just so great to have you in my orbit. It's been.
Anne McBride, PhD (45:53)
Thank
you, Sarah. I'm so grateful for you. You were such an important person in your cohort in terms of the generosity with which you share information. And you're one of the people who always pops in when someone has a questions in your WhatsApp group chat for your cohort. You are a linchpin of your cohort in terms of really giving information, making sure people stay connected, organizing Zooms, et cetera. So I'm so grateful for your leadership.
Sara Abernethy (46:20)
So kind of you to say thank you.