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Interface is a podcast where we connect technology and culture through conversation. Interface is brought to you by EMPOWER at PROS. EMPOWER is dedicated to attracting, developing and retaining Black talent at PROS. PROS helps people and companies outperform by enabling smarter selling in the digital economy.
Positioning Yourself for Success in Technology feat. Tinisha Hall
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[00:00:00] Jenni: Welcome to Interface, a podcast where we connect technology and culture through Conversation. Interface is brought to you by Empower. At Pros, empower is dedicated to attracting, developing, and retaining black [00:01:00] talent. At Pros, pros helps people on companies outperform by enabling smart selling in a digital economy.
I'm your host, Jennifer Plumer, and today I'm joined with my co-host, Sierra and Mattie, who's usually here is on vacation living it up. Uh, we can't wait to see his PowerPoint when he gets back of all the fun stuff he's been up to. Um, our guest today is Tanisha Hall, director IT application Development at United Airlines.
Welcome Tanisha.
[00:01:32] Tanisha Hall: Thank you so much, Jenny and Sierra. I appreciate the opportunity.
[00:01:37] Jenni: Yeah.
[00:01:38] Siara: happy to have you.
[00:01:39] Jenni: Tanisha and I go back, back a long time. Sh she was my first roommate at University of Maryland, Baltimore County. So, um, really happy to have you here today, Tanisha. Uh,
[00:01:53] Tanisha Hall: was such a long time ago.
[00:01:56] Jenni: yeah. Such a different person. , [00:02:00] when you
[00:02:00] Siara: See now before we get into the the work stuff, I wanna, I wanna know the real deal. How was Jenny in college? I mean freshman year dorm mate.
[00:02:09] Tanisha Hall: mean,
[00:02:10] Jenni: it was, so it was the summer, so we had, we had, um, we went to school in the summer for our, for our, for the Meyerhoff Scholarship Summer Bridge part. So it was like two months, I guess. I can't
[00:02:21] Tanisha Hall: Yeah, it was about, I think it was a six, six to eight week program. I can't remember either. It's been a long time. But, you know, we went into college, it's your first time away from home. Everybody's trying to learn who they are and just trying to, you know, be on their own. And so, you know, we were all probably a little out there, a little out there initially, a little bit shy, right, until you get to know people.
But it was a great summer. We got to bond, um, you know, Jenny and I, and then, you know, the rest of our cohort of about 36 people. [00:03:00] And so it, it really kinda helped us going into the fall of our freshman year of college. So, but Jenny was fun. Jenny was always fun. Always quirky, always laughing just like she is now. And so, um, there was never a dull moment
[00:03:18] Siara: I cannot even believe that she used to be a wallflower. The Jenny that I know today, I cannot e I cannot even fathom.
[00:03:27] Jenni: I feel like I had stepped into a whole new world because I went to a predominantly white high school. Everyone was either from Montgomery County, Maryland, like Tanisha.
[00:03:37] Tanisha Hall: me . Yes,
[00:03:39] Jenni: PG County or Baltimore. And then there was like the others , which is like me, um, and maybe a few other people. So I was just like trying to really just kind of catch up and, you know, I hadn't been in an environment like that.
Um, so that was kind of me feeling a little bit like a fish outta water.
[00:03:59] Tanisha Hall: [00:04:00] it was fun. I don't think anybody made you feel like that unless
[00:04:03] Jenni: No, no, no, no, no. Definitely no. Like you said, it was just kind of bonding and, um, yeah, like we
[00:04:11] Tanisha Hall: going through
[00:04:12] Jenni: with this, going to classes, um, you know, just even understanding like where to find your class and going to cl. Even when the fall came, it kind of changed a little bit because we would go together everywhere and then we were kind of like when the fall started, we kind.
you know, everyone doesn't have the same schedule, so it was kind of a little bit more dispersed. So the, the summer, definitely, I think you, you tied it up. It's, it was a bonding experience. We were all kind of like, what's going on,
[00:04:43] Tanisha Hall: so. But like I said,
[00:04:47] Siara: of
[00:04:47] Jenni: I know a little bit about your background, um, Tanisha, but maybe you can, uh, for Sierra and our audience maybe, uh, describe how you got in, how you, [00:05:00] you know, what field you're in, like kind of your path to get there.
Um, what your interests were. You know,
[00:05:07] Tanisha Hall: Sure, sure. So, yes, it's, you know, this, this, where do I start is what I say. Right? Because, um, so I, I grew up in Montgomery County, Maryland, silver Spring in particular. Um, it's area that is really, really big on education. Um, but before that, I was in Virginia, you know, I was with a single mom. We ended up moving to DC so I did elementary school in dc um, you know, DC proper.
And my mom has always kind of wanted us to have a, have better opportunities for education. And so she basically moved, um, to an apartment. In Montgomery County, Maryland because of the schools. And from that point on, it was, you know, [00:06:00] you know, when you first go into like a new school district, you know, they have to test you to see kind of where you are.
And it was at that point that she was, she, she always knew I was smart, right? I always knew I was smart, but you know, you go take that placement test for math, right? And the placement test was like off the charts. And so I ended up going into a magnet program in junior high school in Tacoma Park. And, um, that then transitioned into a, you know, the, the magnet program at Montgomery Blair where the focus was on like science and technology.
Um, it wasn't really engineering so much, you know, at that point, but science, technology and math and, you know, math was, was really, really big. And you know, I look back on my time in Montgomery County and I realize. That there were a lot of opportunities that I was kind of able to take advantage of, you know, being in that kind of STEM environment.
Um, you know, I look back and I, I think about [00:07:00] like programs. This was 20, almost over 25 years ago, right? Over 25 years ago. Programs like, you know, where you could go and visit a college and see what college students were doing. You could kind of, you know, talk to professors. Then this was, this was a long time ago, and so I had a lot of exposure.
Also had exposure to like different groups. Um, you know, where, you know, was, it was really mentoring for some of the, you know, STEM environments, mentoring, and then U M B C. I mean, that was kind of like the cream of the crop, right? I, I will say I never really. Knew where I was going to college, right? I was the first person in my family to go to college.
My mom didn't go to college, so she couldn't help me kind of navigate the process. I knew I was going somewhere, right? Like, so that wasn't an option, you know? Always knew like that was my next step. After 12th grade, I was gonna go to college. [00:08:00] I didn't know where. And so, whereas like nowadays, you know, people have like their favorite place they wanna go, oh, I wanna go to University of A, B and C, I wanna go to the Ivy League.
I literally had no clue. . I was just like, okay. And, and funny story, I used to love ACC basketball in high school. And so I just applied to ACC schools, right? I applied to Maryland. I applied to, I'm sorry, it's um, it's a, it's a sports league.
[00:08:27] Jenni: okay.
[00:08:28] Tanisha Hall: a sports league, like, um, I'm sorry. Okay, so like college basketball, right. there was, at the time, there was like, North Carolina was in there, university of Maryland, university of Virginia, like, and so I applied to those schools because those are the schools I knew. You know, I, um, one of my counselors in high school, um, told me about Meyerhoff because, I mean, it was still pretty much in its infancy, right?
We were the sixth [00:09:00] class of Meyerhoff, so it was still pretty much in its infancy and not very many people really knew about the program, but somehow she knew it. So she told me, she's like, Hey, I think you might wanna try this. And I remember there was, you know, I showed my mom, I was like, oh, you know, counselor said to go and apply for this.
Um, it was a, a, a full ride scholarship. I was like, okay, I'll do it. then I thought about it and, and honestly I was like, ah, I don't really wanna go to U M B C. And so I didn't do it. I mean, that, that was, I, I didn't do it. I remember my mom had come home from her job the night before the application was due, and she worked, she worked two jobs, so this was the evening job.
So let's say she got home at nine o'clock and the application wasn't done. She asked me about it and I was like, oh, no, I'm not, I'm not gonna do it. Right. She made me sit at the living room table and it, I mean, this was when we had to actually [00:10:00] type the applications and use whiteout If you made a mistake.
I literally had to sit there, type up the entire application before I went to sleep that night. And so I was like, okay, if my mom's serious, like she's serious about this. And, um, you know, I mean, really I, you know, turned it in, you know, was invited to the selection weekend. For, you know, for scholars. And I think going to the selection weekend is kind of what, what sold me on U M B C and what sold me on, you know, the program.
And, you know, I mean, just hearing the, the, the president at that time, which was Dr. Robowski speak about black excellence and wanting to get a PhD and, you know, wanting to influence the next generation, like, all of that spoke to me. And so it was at that point I was like, oh, I, you know, I really wanna go to U M B C and, and, you know, and that's [00:11:00] literally how it happened.
And, you know, if it wasn't for my mom, like making me get up my path would've been completely different.
[00:11:06] Jenni: Yeah.
[00:11:07] Siara: Moms are the best. I mean, we don't like them always in the moment. It's
[00:11:12] Tanisha Hall: Yes.
[00:11:13] Siara: what? Why do I have to do this? And then of course, when you look back 2020 vision,
[00:11:18] Jenni: didn't I listen to her? That's why I think about my kids right now. It's like, why don't you listen to me? I'm Wise
[00:11:24] Tanisha Hall: Listen. I understand. I am, um, I'm kind of going through that now with my daughter who is
[00:11:32] Jenni: You got a senior, right? Yeah. I remember when my daughter was a senior.
[00:11:36] Tanisha Hall: Yeah.
[00:11:38] Jenni: It's
[00:11:38] Tanisha Hall: So it's a lot.
[00:11:40] Jenni: Yeah,
[00:11:40] Tanisha Hall: So it's a lot. So just to kind of continue my story after U M B C, I mean, I felt really prepared to, to do anything. By the time I left there, I, I'd chosen computer, actually I chose electrical engineering.
My, my, uh, freshman year. The caveat was I [00:12:00] had to take physics and no, I was terrified of physics because it wasn't like my strong suit. I was like, all the math I can do, and I know physics is math, but for whatever reason, physics was not it. And I saw that I had to take physics, so I changed immediately from electrical engineering to computer science.
And that is literally how I got there. Um, so yeah, left U
[00:12:25] Jenni: No
[00:12:26] Tanisha Hall: C
[00:12:26] Jenni: regrets,
[00:12:27] Tanisha Hall: no, none at all. Because I would've had to take physics I would've had to take physics. I mean, I, you know, I'll say computer science has afforded me a lot of opportunity to learn a lot of different things. And I'm sure electro engineering was the, is the same, but I only know from my perspective now.
Um, but yeah, so after young bbc, um, I went to Georgia Tech. I was there for three years. Um, I got my master's with a concentration in human computer interaction. Um, and I left Georgia [00:13:00] Tech and the first thing I thought was, I wanna go back to the DC area, and kind of lived there as an adult. And so that's what I did.
I went back to a place, I had an internship, which was Johns Hopkins applied physics. and, uh, I was there until I eventually made my way to Texas . And so that was in 2005 and I've, I've pretty much been here, um, ever since. So,
[00:13:26] Jenni: Yeah. Yep. So, um, what do you, what, what is your role now and kind of what is your daily life kind of like?
[00:13:36] Tanisha Hall: okay, so I'll start with the role. I am director of IT application development, um, here at United Airlines. And I would give you the long version of the title, um, but it's for catering link and onboard experience. Um, so my teams have responsibility, um, for all of our catering systems [00:14:00] at United, as well as the mobile device that our flight attendants carry, um, in flight, which we call.
And then all of our onboard, um, experience transformation. So anything that we are creating inside the aircraft to make it better for our flight attendants as well as our customers. So onboard experience, day-to-day, . So that's the thing I love about working at United. There are, I mean, I know people say this all the time, like there are no two days that are alike, but it is truly, there are truly no two days that are alike.
Yes, there are, you know, projects that my team works on, but I mean, every day you can look in the news and you could see something different about the airline, right? There are some news story about the airlines, whether it's United or whether it's another airline. And, you know, we can draw parallels, um, between the two.
Um, there are all types of [00:15:00] special projects that we do, you know, for, for customers. , um, for flight attendants, you know, because our flight attendants are unionized and so there's a lot of rules we have to go through to build applications, um, that, that can, um, you know, apply for their, their, their union. Um, but what we're trying to do, I will say, like overall, is figure out how we, um, how we in, in, how do we better the experience for our customer.
So everything we do, that's why we do it. Um, no two days alike, but application team, we start with scrum calls. You know, we, we, I, I have many business partners in, in flight services, which is our flight attendance. Uh, we have customer strategy and innovation. Uh, I work with those business partners. Um, I work with partners in, in digital analytics, right?
Because after we have like all the. , all the [00:16:00] applications we have to collect the data and then, you know, figure out how we, how we do things better or easier or faster, more efficient. And so no two days are the same, but, um, we have, we have a lot of fun. And I have a, I have a really fun area. I would say, Hey, United, you know, it's, it's kind of, it's, it's very fun.
Whenever, whenever people hear me talk about it or whenever people come to my team, um, they're, they're, they really love it because, you know, they've flown, they've seen a flight attendant, right? If they've purchased something in air, they, they know the flight attendant holds that device and ask them if they wanna charge on their credit cards.
And so, you know, we, we have a, a good time because everything that we do, we can kind of, we can see it, we can see it, see it as soon as we, as soon as we step out into the airport and, and get on a flight.
[00:16:46] Jenni: Yeah, that feedback loop is I think very important. I think people do get frustrated when, you know, sometimes you're working on a project for a long time and then it's kind of like, ah. We've changed our minds, or we're gonna go to, and you, you feel [00:17:00] disappointed because you're not gonna s uh, you know, see what people, you know, how people react to that.
Um, so being able to put something out there that is so immediately, so one-to-one with an end user as well, um, end user customer , or, you know, a passenger on a flight, um, is very relatable and very rewarding, I would think.
[00:17:21] Tanisha Hall: Yes. And
[00:17:21] Jenni: I see all your posts on LinkedIn and you're always
[00:17:25] Tanisha Hall: somewhere
[00:17:25] Jenni: a lot
[00:17:27] Tanisha Hall: we're, we really are doing a lot. And I, and I, I love it. That that's what kind of keeps me, that's one of the things I'll say that keeps me here, but, but my, my customer is, is the flight attendant.
[00:17:37] Jenni: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:38] Tanisha Hall: Um, at least one of my customers is the flight attendant. But how do we enable the flight attendant to make the customer's experience better?
And so we do a lot of things, um, around that. And we, we talk to our flight attendants. Like if I, if I'm on a business trip and I have to go to Chicago, then I'll talk to the flight attendant. To get real-time feedback about what they like, what they don't like, what [00:18:00] is useful, what might not be so useful so that we can continuously iterate and make the products better.
[00:18:06] Jenni: Are they usually, um, kind about their feedback or,
[00:18:10] Tanisha Hall: they are real, they are real I'll say that sometimes kind, but I mean, they're, you know, we understand that there are some shortcomings that we need to, to get better at as far as technology. And so we don't wanna sugarcoat it, we don't want them to sugarcoat it. Um, you know, we, we also have focus groups, right?
So it's not, we're not only doing research once we go, you know, once we're up in the airly, we do have focus groups. And when we are building applications, um, my team is really, really good about testing those applications in flight. And so they are, they are literally always traveling. They, they, they go everywhere.
They go across country. They go out of the country, . They go, they go to the south, to north. They, they're literally all over. Um, to, to test and make sure that the [00:19:00] products that we're building, um, are gonna be, um, successful in flight.
[00:19:06] Jenni: That's, that's amazing. If you like traveling , you, you get the opportunity. Cuz you know, it'd be one thing to say, oh, I work for United, but I'm always kind of here . But you're actually getting the opportunity to kind of experience, you know, what it's like to, you know, be a passenger, but also be a, you know, an employee.
And so making improvements as you go from the firsthand experience.
[00:19:30] Tanisha Hall: Firsthand experience. It's, um, like I said, it's, it's, I think that experience is one of the things that kind of keeps me here. I mean, I've, I've been in United for a long time, been here 15 years, and so I've gone through, so I, I'll say I started at Continental. in Houston. Um, that was the, Houston was the headquarters for Continental Airlines.
United was based in Chicago and we merged in, we started in 2011. And [00:20:00] I mean, that was a stressful time, right? You're, you're merging two completely separate airlines. You have double the amount of employees now. And so it was a really stressful time for, um, for everybody. But then you think about it and you're like, okay, now we have work to do because we have two completely separate HR systems.
We have two completely separate customer database systems. Like we have, we had two of everything. And so the, then the, the big, you know, the big, um, opportunity became how do you merge all this data into one so that we can run a successful airline? And how do you do it without, um, interrupting operations?
At the, at the airlines. And so that was, that was heavy on, on us in 2011 and 2012. But, um, we got through it and came out on the other side and, and it's, it's really interesting that I've now been a United employee for, for 10 years, [00:21:00] right? Outside of the five years at Continental. So,
[00:21:05] Jenni: So, uh, what advice would you give to up and comers who are interested in, um, you know, STEM related fields or, you know, software engineering or computer science in particular?
[00:21:19] Tanisha Hall: so this is what I, I I do tell people this now. Um, so there, there's a couple different tracks, right? So you can, you can go to college, you can learn everything that you need to learn to be successful in a STEM field, right? But starting in high school, I tell people that the internet is vast with opportu.
We, we did not have this. Like, I don't, I don't know how my path would've changed had I had the internet. Um, but there are so much information. There are free classes for literally everything that you want to [00:22:00] learn, right? So I would start there with the learning. Secondly, I always push for, um, for people to have mentors, um, push for people to have mentors in the field that you wanna study. Um, I think that is important, um, because it can kind of also help guide you in your career track. Um, yes, I would say learn all. You can mentorship and then get involved. You can get involved with outside organizations, uh, get involved with like-minded people. Um, you know, there's a lot of organizations that you can be a part of. and get to actually know people in the fields that you're interested in.
[00:22:47] Jenni: Yeah, I totally agree. It's, it's the, the, I remember just, you know, having to do assignments and going to a library and looking in the card catalog and then going to find the book, and it's just like, [00:23:00] Everything's at your fingertips now, um, with anything you're interested in. And definitely, yeah, people should try to take advantage of that and realize there's not one path, right?
It's not high school, college, master's job. You, you know, you can, you can find a way if, if
[00:23:17] Tanisha Hall: kind of create their own path. Create their own path. I mean, there's, there's free classes literally everywhere. It's just a matter of seeking those out if it's something that you wanna do.
[00:23:29] Jenni: Yeah.
[00:23:32] Siara: After Johns Hopkins, I saw you had a, a short stint at MD Anderson, and then you moved on to Continental, which is now United. Um, what kind of drew you to, to airline from coming from MD Anderson?
[00:23:48] Tanisha Hall: so I'll back up just a little bit. . When I was moving to Houston, you know, I knew that I wanted to work for Continental at the time, and [00:24:00] so that was the one place that I applied for. I was like, I wanna work at Continental. Like I always knew, I always had a travel bug. I've always had the travel bug, so I was like, oh, I'm gonna work for an airline.
And I targeted Continental. Um, I got an offer with Continental at the time. This was back in 2005. And I'll say this, I can say this now. It was not a lucrative offer, , and so I did not take it. And I said, okay, well let me go. And I, and I ended up, um, you know, not, not taking that, that job offer, but, um, I, I did go to MD Anderson.
MD Anderson was, was really, really nice. And, and at that time, I, I started looking at like, the top companies in Houston, uh, for technology. And a lot of times, like a hospital is not really gonna be on the radar, but when I was kind of job searching, like, you know, all of big oil came up, um, all of, uh, [00:25:00] like I said, continental came up and then MD Anderson was there.
And so I, I just said, oh, lemme go check to see like what opportunities are kind of there. And, um, so that's literally how it happened. I went to MD Anderson. I, you know, applied for position through there and I stayed there and I only stayed there for one year. Um, I was doing master data management at, at that point, um, because I'd had a database background, so I was like, okay, this, this sounds, you know, really cool.
But, um, the opportunity, another opportunity presented itself for me to go to Continental. And so I stayed at MD Anderson for a year and then went back to Continental and, um, got a position that, um, I had a really, really good mentor there, uh, to, and I ended up getting that position, um, as a database administrator at the time.
And, um, it, it is, it's been a, a great step for me, um, in my career path.
[00:25:58] Siara: What do you enjoy [00:26:00] the most about database?
[00:26:02] Tanisha Hall: So I was doing so with infrastructure and databases. it can, it can mean so many things, right? Data runs the world, right? And so every application that is being built, so this is when I was a, a database administrator. Every application that's being built uses data in some form or fashion, It was up to the database administrator, you know, in, in parts of the infrastructure team to make sure that those applications could function correctly, right?
Like, how do you speed them up? Because what customers don't like to do is sit there and wait, right? You have a mobile app. You, you're sitting there and waiting. Nobody wants to wait, right? So how do you make it, um, efficient? Like, how do you make sure that it's reliable? Like nobody, you know, you, you don't wanna pull up your app and get an error. So how do you make sure that you're not running outta space, you're running outta memory, um, making sure that it's [00:27:00] efficient. Um, and I really loved querying. I was actually a, a TA back in grad school, , Jenny Laugh. I was a TA back in grad school for databases for, I think it was Oracle.
[00:27:11] Jenni: on a t-shirt. I love querying.
[00:27:14] Tanisha Hall: Well, it, yeah, it, it was, um, it was, it was just very interesting and you can, there's some interesting problems that you can solve with just knowing how to write database queries. And so it, it has just always been interesting to me. Um, databases de database development, like how do you organize data to, you know, to make it efficient for people?
And you know, now you have big data, so there's, I mean, it's just getting better and better, I think. But I, I loved all aspects of kind of database databases in general, so,
[00:27:49] Jenni: DBAs are superheroes cuz we'll be like,
[00:27:52] Tanisha Hall: DBAs are
[00:27:53] Jenni: yeah. Cause a development team kind of has their initial design. Maybe a DBA is [00:28:00] involved but maybe not right? Because there's usually not a lot of DBAs. So you know, ultimately what happens is something goes live and it's not quite performing the way you want to
[00:28:11] Tanisha Hall: quite right.
[00:28:12] Jenni: teams are like DBA.
[00:28:16] Tanisha Hall: that's what we say the database teams are, are pretty much in the background until stuff hits the fan and then it's like, oh, bring in the dba. We gotta make sure that, and so, you know, I it, it's funny because I'm on the other side now. I, I went from being a DBA and being on the database administration side to now being on the application side and, you know, and so I'm very cognizant of when my team wants to do some development.
I'm like, have you talked to the, the dba? Let's make sure that we're doing this the right way. Um, before, you know, before we put, put things into production. So, um, we've, we've seen pretty [00:29:00] good success there. Um, just because I kind of have my eye on that now because I know what the other side is like, so,
[00:29:07] Siara: I was gonna say, I'm sure that makes your team, you know, a little bit more successful. You having that background to say, hold on, I know we, we wanna put this out as soon as possible, but let's do a couple of checks.
[00:29:20] Tanisha Hall: yes. Yeah, and I, I just look, I just make sure that they talk to the right people, you know, just talk to the right people. Just make sure we're doing it the right way. And we've had pretty good success there.
[00:29:31] Siara: Awesome. Awesome. I'm, I would like to be a black, a background player too. I am not at all. Um, I don't know if Jenny told you this, I am not the techie on this team. Um, but , I'm, I'm here for the culture
[00:29:46] Jenni: Yeah,
[00:29:46] Tanisha Hall: okay. Good.
[00:29:49] Siara: but I, I mean, I agree with the kind of being the background player and being able to see things from a more broad perspective where you have sort of, you know, your [00:30:00] sneeze kind of focused in one area and kind of helping to bridge and bridge the gap, which it applies in, in all industries it sounds like.
So that's really cool.
[00:30:10] Jenni: Yeah. And for those listening who are trying to thinking, okay, what aspect of application development could I get into where I'm more marketable or whatever? DBA is definitely a good choice because right there, Companies typically don't have an excessive DBAs . They're, you know, it's, it's a, a niche and definitely very valued.
So, you know, you can definitely take those skills that you learn in one place and, and take it, you know, from company to company until you find your home place. So yeah, it's definitely states something to think about.
[00:30:44] Tanisha Hall: are, are always, um, what we say is DBAs don't really leave their companies. Um, so there's never just, I, I'll say the words, there's hardly ever open roles for DBAs. Um, [00:31:00] and, and we've found that, know, once the DBA gets in there and, and gets trained, then they tend to stay for a very. Very long time.
I know, I know a lot of, um, the DBAs at, at United in, in particular, um, I mean they've, they've been there for years, I mean, years and years, right. So we sometimes augment our, our team, but the majority have literally been there over probably the time I've been there, you know, 20, 30, 40 years people have been there.
So,
[00:31:39] Jenni: How, how are you structuring your teams now with the, with the trend towards DevOps? Because I, I feel like originally right, you'd have an application team and there was a database group, and then you would try, try to like plug into them. But now that operations is kind of being built into the team, have you have, have you seen the team structures.
[00:31:58] Tanisha Hall: so I think there is a [00:32:00] shift, um, There is a shift to, to just what you said, always in, in including, um, DevOps and not having these separate teams. Uh, right now my team is still, you know, we have databases, we have our middleware teams, we have our application teams, and we have our DevOps teams. Um, we are at a, you know, at a company level, we are, we are shifting.
Uh, I can tell, but we have not made the shift yet. But I know it's coming because of, because of the, the push to, to have kind of DevOps in the middle of, of everything.
[00:32:35] Jenni: Yeah, I would say like our, our newer teams are more truly DevOps and the applications that have been around for a long time are still kind of more traditional separation cuz it's hard to do that restructuring without affecting things. So, um, that makes sense.
[00:32:51] Tanisha Hall: Yep. And, and we're in a push now. Um, you know, like, like many, um, like many companies, many. to, you know, [00:33:00] migrate to the cloud to have, you know, cloud-based applications. And so when we do that, that's where we're shifting to make sure that we have Devon Center of all.
[00:33:13] Jenni: So in the spirit of, um, you know, we talked about, you know, Meyerhoff and, and, and the opportunities that you had, um, in high school, in college, what should companies be doing to, um, bring more black talent into their technology?
[00:33:34] Tanisha Hall: That's a good question. Um, you know, I know over the last couple years, um, a lot of companies in including United have made a push towards recruiting. Um, Black talent as well as diverse talent. Um, I think recruitment is the first step, right? So, so the targeting of specific schools, right? Whether it's [00:34:00] H B C U, um, that we're partnering with, or whether it is specific groups on, you know, majority campuses.
I think recruitment has to be, um, the first step. Um, at least one of the things that we have done is we have changed how we write job descriptions. And you don't realize like how important that is until, um, you actually do it and you get more people applying. Um, some of the things that, that we've thought about are, you know, we like to have, you know, a, a degree, right?
A, a bachelor's degree. And so typically you'll see on a job rec, um, . You want somebody who has a BS in a STEM related field, computer science, math, engineering, whatever. But we had to stop and think. It was like, does that matter? Because if somebody took a different path, then they're not [00:35:00] gonna have a BS in one of those STEM fields.
Maybe they'll have it in another field, but maybe they don't have one at all. But they're either self-taught or what, or, or what have you. And so we have, um, in a lot of instances removed that requirement. And we have seen growth in the number of submissions because people don't feel compelled to have a bachelor's degree before they're looking for a technology role.
Um, so that is, that's one thing. Recruitment definitely, um, you know, the job descriptions. And then once people, once people kind of, um, well, let me, I'll go back to this, but after the, um, after the, you know, the job description and you have people who actually submit. One thing that I think we need to do to increase our, um, black talent is prepare people for interviewing.
Um, and that [00:36:00] can mean a couple things, right? A lot of times you're gonna go into interview blind, you're gonna look at the job description, and you're kind of gonna gonna go into the interview blindly. What I know some people, um, do is they have kind of like a pre-conversation with the interviewee. So one, and you can figure out exactly what the role is and you can find out a little bit of information about the company, if, if it's not a company that you're familiar with, um, and give you a little bit of insight into what you're gonna be doing, right?
So I think interview preparation is, is key. Um, that is a little bit harder because I think with that you have to have a mentor kind of in your space to help you prepare for that. But interviewing, you know, knowing how to best articulate your answers to interview questions, right? I have, I have mentored several people and taken on that, that task of just doing a, just doing a, a mock interview.
[00:37:00] And you'd, you would be surprised at the difference in the first interview, like at the first mock interview, in the second mock interview, right? And so I think interview preparation is also, um, um, something key. And then once you get the job, I think to increase black talent, you have to see that there are opportunities for advancement, uh, within the company, right?
So some type of internal mobility, because if not people are gonna leave.
[00:37:28] Jenni: Yeah.
[00:37:28] Tanisha Hall: you know, you, you either have to, and, and it doesn't, I mean, obviously if you're not qualified for the, the role, you're not gonna be promoted per se. But, you wanna make sure that you show that there is internal mobility and, um, that people are able to, um, to be promoted within the company or otherwise people start looking, you know, looking for the, the grass being greener on the other side.
And so, um,
[00:37:56] Jenni: I was looking through through your LinkedIn and I saw like, I mean [00:38:00] United is doing a lot of great things exposing aviation to young people of women and PE people of color. And then I, I think I also saw that you're in involved in some sort of like executive preparedness program or could you speak about that a little bit?
[00:38:15] Tanisha Hall: yes. Okay. So I, you know, I, I think one of the, one of the turning points for me being at United was, it was actually during Covid. During 2020, I mean, you all have heard about the airlines, right? Nobody was flying, right? I
[00:38:32] Jenni: Prose is aware for sure.
[00:38:33] Tanisha Hall: was flying , right. Revenue management. Right. And so I actually, um, I was actually on spring break when Covid hit and never went back into the office after that.
Kids never went back to school. Spring break, I will never forget. Spring break, 2020. Um, so I come back, you know, I'm, I'm trying to get myself set up at home for my, you know, I work from home sometimes, but [00:39:00] it wasn't an everyday thing. So I start, you know, get set up and everything. And, you know, one of the first emails that I'd seen was from an, from, um, from someone in HR saying, Hey, you've been nominated to join this program. Called, um, I T S M F Management Academy. And I was like, okay. You know, I never heard of it. He was like, are you interested? Well, of course I'm interested. I don't know what it is yet, but yes, I'm interested. Right. I'll go look at it later. And so I had to do like an application, send in a resume and, and all this stuff.
But even, even though I did nominated, so I started looking. And so it's actually a management academy, which is a year long program. Which, um, which exposes you to, um, leadership training? I hadn't, I had never been trained in being a manager. Right. So I didn't, I re I didn't really know what it was. The only thing I had to, to take from it was I knew what, how my [00:40:00] manager treated me, right.
And I know how people should be treated in general, right? But I'd never had leadership training. Like how do you, how do you get people to kind of rally around you to, you know, for a common goal? , like how do you define a strategy? Like how do you write, you know, letters to executives? Like, a lot of these things I had just never done.
So I went through I T S M F Management Academy. Like I said, it was a year long program, and it's for, for technology, kind of mid-level managers, right? Um, cohort of 50 people. We go through a year together, we meet weekly, uh, which was, which, which was a lot. Um, we did a project, we did speaking engagements.
We presented to executives. Um, and so at the end of a year, you know, I said, well, kind of what is my, what is my next step? Like I felt, I felt like, okay, now, like this is [00:41:00] when I need to kind of make my my next move. Um, let's figure out what what that is. And um, I actually have one of my mentors, um, Lon Hammond, who just got promoted to vp, actually
Um, you know, she asked me at the end of, it was almost the end of my program and I was about to graduate. She said, what are you doing? She's like, do you wanna be a director? And I think her saying that just kind of, I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, yes, I, I do wanna be a director. Like said, so what are you waiting for?
And it, it was crazy. At that time there were, I remember, six or seven open director positions available at United and, and they were very hard to come by, normally six or seven. And I think it was because it was right at the end of Covid. Like there were some people who took, you know, packages to leave.
You know, did any, there were just a bunch of of things happening at that time. And, um, [00:42:00] you know, it was, it was a rigorous process, but I felt through my leadership training that I was, that's how I was able to get. Through that. Right. Um, just thinking about like what is the impact that I have had on things that united and not just rattling off like a bunch of things I had done right.
Anybody can rattle off, rattle off everything you've ever done. Okay, what does that mean? Right? But if nobody had ever taught me, you know, to talk about the impact of what I've done versus just what I've done, you know, I might be in a different place today. So, um, so that was one program. That was the first program I'll say.
And then I think the program that you might be referring to is the Black Executive Leadership Program. So that is actually, um, a McKenzie program. Um, and so United, whenever they, they run that program, United gets us, uh, a couple of spots and I was also nominat. [00:43:00] Um, for, for that program, um, through McKenzie.
And it was, it was a shorter program. It was about three, it was about four months long. Um, but similar things, right? You, you get in a room, you're gonna talk about certain situations, how you handle certain situations, how you market yourself, um, you know, how do you talk to people, how do you engage, how do you strategize?
And so it was more around executive leadership and almost preparing you for what the next level is. And so that was, that was also a very instrumental, um, project, I'm sorry, program, um, that I was involved in, um, last year. So,
[00:43:42] Jenni: Yeah. I, I, that's true. I think that, what do I say? What I like about that is, right, as a manager, right, you kind of just, I always, I always say making it up as I go because you get in situations and if you haven't been in that situation before, [00:44:00] you're either in the heat of the moment just kind of doing well.
I think this is the approach, and maybe you're right and maybe you're wrong. Maybe you can consult with some other people and get things out, but you're kind of under the pressure of what the, that you know what the atmosphere that you're in right now and Right. I'm, I imagine as you go up and up, Right.
It's, it's, you're gonna feel more comfortable if you're like, well, I've been prepared, right? I've gone through, I've mocked these scenarios, or I've, you know, I've researched this, I've trained to do this, and I'm ready. And being able, you know, that's gonna build your confidence, which is really gonna help prepare you to get to that next role.
Um, so that's amazing that you've had that opportunity.
[00:44:42] Tanisha Hall: I mean, we, we do a lot more training Now, I will say that, but when I became a, when I became a senior manager, I remember distinctly asking my manager, I said, oh, is there some leadership training? Like something I'd never led people before? He looked at me and he's like, no,
[00:44:56] Jenni: Yeah.
[00:44:56] Tanisha Hall: there was nothing else.
There was, there was not. No, but you can go look [00:45:00] here. There was just no. So I was literally, like you just said, thrown into the fire and figuring it out as I went along. Right. You, you know, inherently like how you wanna be treated, right? And so it's how I wanted to treat my reports. But those instances where you have to deal with issues, uh, it wasn't, it wasn't taught.
And, um, like I said, we're doing a lot better now. There are programs and, and trainings in place to prepare you for those types of, of things, but, um, when I became a manager, it, they were, they were not there at all. So,
[00:45:36] Jenni: and it kind of goes back to those mock interviews, right? Right. If you, if you have that pre, that pre-work that gets you ready, that never goes away As you keep going up the ladder, you need to keep training and preparing and mocking things out so that when you get there, you know, you knock it out the park with, you know, your excellence
[00:45:58] Tanisha Hall: Absolutely, Judy. [00:46:00] Absolutely.
[00:46:01] Siara: And I think it's really, these programs are, are great for it. It's like you, you know, you go through your day-to-day work and it's like, you know, you're good, you're good at what you do, you know, you get things done. You have your teams who rally behind you, but sometimes it's doing those extra exercises that make you realize, even in the day-to-day, it's like, oh wait, I think I, I am ready.
Like I, I am ready for the, for the next thing. This is great. I love where I am, but it's ki it's sort of a self-check of saying you've done all of these things. You maybe, you know, kind of stepping out on faith a little bit, but it's like, yeah, I think I've got the goods to take it to the, to the next level.
And those types of programs, or even if you're not a part of a program, just kind of seeking out those types of activities and things that can help you. Kind of articulate and think about where you, where you [00:47:00] might want to go, um, could catapult you into the, into the next level as opposed to kind of sitting back and figuring out, oh, am I interested in this?
Do I kind of wanna go in that direction? I think once, once you kind of go through that type of activity, you're like, I can articulate this. I can really say what I want, where I'm ready to go. And then it's like, yeah, let's do it. And you're, you're definitely more comfortable in taking, taking that leap.
[00:47:31] Tanisha Hall: And I think, I think it's important just to add to that, like once you are at those top levels, it's definitely important to reach back. Like I always say, like mentorship is, is, is one of my ministries because, you know, there's a lot of new employees, right? And they're, they're looking at me, you know, I'm like, you know, who's looking at me, but they're, they're looking at me and I have to, I, I have to understand that I may have a little bit of influence over people.
[00:48:00] Right? Um, so I, I always say that I collect mentees, um, over the, I mean, over a lot of years I've just kind of. Like, people just gravitate towards me. And so whether they've come for the summer and work for United, we keep in touch. Whether they're, they come for our early career digital leadership program.
We keep in touch whether, you know, whether they've been at United for 10, 15 years. Right. I, I am always having like mentorship meetings with people and this was, this was prior to United starting a formal program, but I've always had like, conversations with people because they, they, they look up to you and, and I can give them advice and, and they can give me advice.
Right. I, when I, when I look at this generation that's coming in now, one thing I can say is they are bold, right? Like, I, I think our generation was just a lot more go with the. They're bold. And so it's refreshing right? To, to see, [00:49:00] um, just some of the ideas that they have and ways they wanna go about doing things.
Like they have so much energy. Like I'm not, maybe I had that energy 20 years ago, right? But they have so much energy and they, they really want to do well. Um, you know, they wanna do well in their careers, but they also wanna, they want to work somewhere that they'd like to work. And so I, I have been, I've been really, really happy at United and that United has, you know, done so much programming like Beacon, our black b r g Business Resource group, I mean, beacon over the last two years actually we started right before Covid.
I mean, they have done amazing things in the community, right? Amazing things in the community. And I just kind of get in where I fit in, right? I volunteer for. For everything. Like I , I mean, that, that's literally what I do. Like I volunteer when I can, right? Like [00:50:00] Juneteenth celebrations in Houston, you know, was huge.
And we've done that for the last couple years. We've, we've brought students in, you know, partnering with, with other organizations like Girls Rock Wings. We took 'em out, you know, to the airport and, you know, we offered our time there. Like that. Those are some amazing things. Amazing things. We, we had our first, um, we had our first like beacon award ceremony last year to just recognize, um, both black employees and allies, right?
Because allies are important, um, recognizing them. And so, you know, we had never done that before. And so I think there's just a certain fire. Um, I mean you should see like how many people, we have that want to go recruit for United, right? We, we partner with HBCUs, so we're going to. Howard and, um, a u c and you know, North Carolina a and t along with the majority institutions.
Right. [00:51:00] And I mean, we just have so many people involved that want to be here. And so it's, it's, they like that. It's a great place to work, right? They like that. It's a great place to work. And so I have been fortunate and, and blessed and, and I have really good friends here. And the opportunities are, have been really, really good, um, for me as well as, um, other people coming behind me too.
So,
[00:51:26] Siara: We love our E R G too. That's why we are here today. Even talking to you and Power's been been amazing. It's, it's one of the things that I definitely bookmark in my time at at pros. Um, It's like, yep, that's, it's lights, a fire in you definitely makes, you wanna show up every day to be your best. And definitely reaching back, we've got a ton of programs that are doing sort of the, the same thing.
Um, yeah. Makes it a great place to work.
[00:51:56] Tanisha Hall: Good, good, good. We might need to partner,
[00:51:59] Jenni: we [00:52:00] should,
[00:52:00] Siara: We'd love it.
[00:52:01] Jenni: we, we should. Yeah, for sure.
[00:52:04] Tanisha Hall: So good.
[00:52:07] Jenni: I think it's time for the heat check,
now this is just the, the portion of the episode where we just have a chat about kind of things we've been reading or things we've been experiencing in technology and culture.
We're not gonna put you on the spot, Tanisha,
[00:52:23] Tanisha Hall: Okay, good. Cause I'm like, I dunno if I'm gonna.
[00:52:28] Siara: we'll bring the heat checks and you can, you can climb in if you have a a point of view.
[00:52:34] Jenni: Um, so my heat check is, um, I didn't know this, I thought I knew so much, but, um, Google Doodles educating people all the time. So December 1st was Gerald, Jerry Lawson's, um, uh, 82nd birthday, uh, Google Doodle. Um, he invented cartridges for, um, game [00:53:00] systems, which. How did I not know this before? So there's a very cute, um, Google Doodle and you, there's like a little game and it kind of takes you through some fun facts of things that he did.
And there's also a YouTube video. Um, his son is actually a in software as well now, which legacy, like how many times do you see a black person and their, you know, their kid in the industry. So beautiful to see. They, they included some game designers as well in the video. Um, so I will put a link in the show notes.
Um, just, just things like that, just always warm my heart. I just, I just really, um, enjoyed seeing that and learning something new, um, about games which, you know, are, you know, are extremely popular out there on the interwebs and with children and adults and everybody. So, uh, that was cool,
[00:53:56] Siara: All right, so my heat check, [00:54:00] um, I am a proud millennial and I spend more time than I'd like to admit on social media. Um, but over the weekend as I'm scrolling, I kept seeing all of these people posting these. Artistic self-portraits of themselves. And, uh, I think Tanisha is nodding, like I saw some of these too.
Um, and so they're using this app called Lin. Um, and I after I'm scrolling and I'm seeing all these, these photos, you know, celebrities were doing it like the whole thing. Um, I, and then of course I come across a few people posting some points of view about, you know, this Lens app. So, um, one of the, one of the three things that I saw first was kind of like a warning.
You know, all of this, talk about how these companies are using your data and, you know, make sure you read the Ts and Cs or, you know, [00:55:00] terms and conditions. They're probably gonna sell your data. Just be mindful as you're sharing. Right. Um, which kind of gives you pause. It definitely gave me pauses. I was like, I wanna try it too.
And I was like, do you really wanna put your photo out there? I don't know. Am I thinking too much about this? We'll, we'll see. Um, but then another argument that came through was these AI generated, um, self-portraits could possibly be hurting, you know, true artists who do this as a living. Um, if you can go and download a free app and pay, I think it's like four bucks to get access to these, these AI generated portraits, this could potentially be hurting the, the art industry and, and things like, And then the third thing that I saw was, which is definitely more relevant to our conversations and and tech is, um, we heard a several months back, there was a case, I believe about the Google, was it the Google [00:56:00] facial recognition software Someone had brought that it was biased towards Caucasian features, and when it came to Brown and black facial features, they weren't so great.
The, the, the technology wasn't great to be able to recognize that. And so there was an argument about, you know, while there's risk in sharing your data on these types of apps, that because it's AI powered could adding more black and brown faces to, in this, you know, kind of this data pool increase, you know,
kind of help the algorithm as far as AI recognition is for black and brown features. And I was just curious around the room, do you think this might help that? Do you think there are better ways to, to go about it? Just kind of general, general ideas across the room.
[00:56:55] Jenni: I have mixed feelings. I, I've definitely not one to be like, oh, I'm gonna put my thumbprint [00:57:00] in here or take, you know, my Facebook profile pick is a Fraggle. So that's kinda, I just, maybe it's the introvert of me. I just don't want my face everywhere. Um, but if it is going to improve how the AI recognizes black features so that these applications won't be so biased, you know, against us, then that is a good thing.
But yeah, I'm always worried about, um, you know, The, the tech taking over or it being used to profile people or, you know, um, kind of some of the things we talked about before is like, um, you know, is it going, is it gonna target neighborhoods of where these pictures are getting uploaded for more, you know, surveillance or whatever that, you know, that's what I worry about,
[00:57:54] Tanisha Hall: One thing I thought about, um, because I wanted to also do that lens, [00:58:00] right? I started seeing all these pictures and I'm like, oh, I wanna do it. I wanna do it. Then I started reading about who's behind it. Oh, it's the Russian company that owns it. Oh, what are they gonna do with our data? And I'm generally not one to, you know, where's, where's Jenny Said she has a Fraggle.
I'm like, everywhere. I'm like, oh, here's my face, you know, here's my kids' faces. And I normally don't think about that stuff, but I haven't done, you know, I'm just, you know, it, it's, I'm a little weary of that, but what I've seen from some of the pictures in a lot of those pictures, they don't look like black faces to me.
That was one of the things they, they don't really look like black faces and I don't know that a private company behind Linda would somehow, you know, help this recognition algorithm. You know, so I'm [00:59:00] kind of on the fence about, you know, whether that in particular would help. Now something like, um, like, you know, clear for example, right.
You know, we're all, if you have clear in the airport, we all have to go there and do our little tech camera picture and, you know, if, if you go in that lane, I think something more alongs like that might help. More so than, than some of the AI generated. Picture, so
[00:59:32] Jenni: Yeah.
[00:59:33] Siara: Yeah, I mean, I, I think it's probably inevitable that the data, you know, whatever you upload will be sh shared or probably sold to some data mining company at some point. So it's like, is the risk worth, you know, the potential benefit? And it's not, you know, we're not even guaranteeing a, a benefit.
It's the potential benefit. [01:00:00] And I'm also not, I'm normally not one that's like, oh, I'm a little nervous about sharing, but for some reason that one kind of kind of made me pause a bit.
[01:00:11] Tanisha Hall: Same. I would've done it too. I was like, oh, come, you changed my mind.
[01:00:15] Jenni: Then the other argument is if they're not getting it from there, they're getting it from something
[01:00:19] Tanisha Hall: it from somewhere.
[01:00:20] Jenni: all, it's all out there. If you've ever, if you've ever posted a picture, not even tagging people, but you've ever posted a picture or someone's posted a picture of you, you have a driver's license that has your picture.
You have, you know, other documents that have your picture that's living somewhere that can be accessed. Right? There's security in place, but there's no security that's a hundred percent foolproof, so it's all out there as well. So,
[01:00:48] Tanisha Hall: Yeah. And you never know the intention.
[01:00:51] Siara: sorry, I was gonna, I was just saying, um, I was, I'll also share the link to the article that I read about this. It includes the, the excerpts of the terms [01:01:00] and conditions. So if you choose to get on the Lens app some information in there for you.
[01:01:06] Jenni: That's awesome. Anything, Tanisha that you have or you read lately that you
[01:01:13] Tanisha Hall: Listen, the one thing that I've kind of been engrossed in, so I am Jenny, I know you don't like sports, but I'm a big sports fan. So I have really been engrossed in this Dion Sanders, like
[01:01:32] Jenni: So I actually, so you might need to back up cuz I am aware that Dionne is involved in something right now, but I have zero context of what the details are.
[01:01:42] Tanisha Hall: Oh goodness. So he coached, he's a, he was the coach at Jackson State, H B C U. Uh, I think he's been there for two years. He got an offer to move to Colorado University, and he took the offer. [01:02:00] And, you know, there's just debates about, oh, he never wanted to, you know, there, there's, there's all type of think tanks going on right now, right?
Oh, he never wanted to be here. He didn't do anything for us. But then there's the opposite side. He did everything for us. We got a new stadium, we got all these, you know, all this additional attention. You know, we got out of bad contracts, you know, and so I've been like just heavily engrossed in that. , I'll say that for one. And then two. Elon and Kanye, they just never end. never end. And so, you know, as I'm like, so I actually do the social media for the athletic booster club at, at our high school. And so I'll do that under, you know, the booster club name, and then I'll switch, I'll just switch to my name, right. Just to kind of see what's going on.
And there's literally always something from Elon and [01:03:00] Kanye and you can get engrossed in that as well. And so when I have time, that's what takes up my time. Just following the craziness surrounds, uh, the two of them.
[01:03:12] Jenni: Yeah.
[01:03:14] Siara: The, the Kanye thing is like, now I am, I am a Kanye fan. Pre, um, 8 0 8 s and Heartbreak, that was probably the
[01:03:29] Tanisha Hall: Line.
[01:03:30] Siara: of Pablo, I mean, was great, but mostly anything after 8 0 8 in the heartbreaks. I'm like, okay, I missed the old Kanye, um, It's just wa it's like watching a car crash, you know? And I ju I'm very, I'm not engrossed in it, but I'm just kind of watching where is the crash?
Where is it gonna end? Where, where is it? Where is he finally gonna land? Um, [01:04:00] am I a bit nervous about him running for p. A, a little bit, uh, uh, uh, or maybe a lot of, bit, um, yeah, I'm just, I'm, yes. Like watching a car crash,
[01:04:14] Jenni: yeah, it's you, you wanna laugh, but at the same time, history has told us that you think it's, you think it's ridiculous, but you never know what's gonna happen. So yeah, you definitely just kind of follow it to see where it's going. Um, It's insane. Um, it's gonna be a fabulous biopic in about 2010 to 20 years.
Uh, I, I predict. Um, so we'll, we'll see what young actor will, will play.
[01:04:45] Tanisha Hall: he actually, I don't know if you guys saw his documentary on Netflix. There's a, I think, three part
[01:04:52] Jenni: that's right. I think it's in my, it's in my watch list. I haven't
[01:04:55] Tanisha Hall: was actually a really good documentary. The, the first couple [01:05:00] parts that I, I watched, like you could see kind of his genius up,
[01:05:04] Siara: Mm-hmm.
[01:05:05] Tanisha Hall: but then like, you know, the real story, like all the stuff that happens later, like now, you know, and so it might be an interesting
[01:05:14] Jenni: Yeah. I'm putting 'em in that category. When, when I was interning at NASA and, you know, people had their nameplates and everyone with a PhD was a little. Different
[01:05:27] Tanisha Hall: I think differently.
[01:05:29] Jenni: I'm not gonna generalize that all people with PhD, but there's kind of like that genius factor where, you know, kind of like Michael Jackson, prince, some other, you know, other people that are just kind of, they're, they're so in tune with whatever their art form is.
That, and then when you get powerful and rich that it just kind of snowballs into insanity. Um, and this is, I, he's definitely [01:06:00] going down that road. Um,
[01:06:02] Siara: I'm okay with Kanye's genius. I'm just concerned that it's going to be more harmful than, than good. That you know that you get into that kind of dangerous, he has a lot of influence and he has a lot of money, you know, and that's
[01:06:19] Jenni: that's what I'm saying. You're laughing cuz it's kind of ridiculous, but at the same time you're like, this could actually go to a
[01:06:24] Tanisha Hall: could
[01:06:25] Jenni: scary place.
[01:06:26] Tanisha Hall: it happen before.
[01:06:27] Jenni: yeah,
[01:06:28] Siara: Our kids are gonna be able to tell some great stories about the things that they , they lived through
[01:06:35] Tanisha Hall: yes, yes. Some great stories starting with the, the two years that they stayed in the house.
[01:06:41] Siara: Yes. Yes.
[01:06:45] Jenni: man, I was telling someone the other day, I was like, we got through that cuz that was my son was, it was not good for, it's not good for children to be, you hear, you know, you, you, you people are protesting that have, have had such strict [01:07:00] rules and it's, it's a tough decision, right? You, you understand why, you know, we gotta shut everything down and I, I agree with what we did, but at the same time, like it took my son probably like two years to it to like get back to normal.
Yeah,
[01:07:16] Siara: the ripple effect on the kids. Um, I was, I was watching something and, and teachers were saying, you know, the impact on students, you know, coming out of the lockdown period. It's like, they are not, they are not the same emotionally, you know, mentally, some of them aren't as sh a lot of them haven't snapped back, you know?
And so yeah, we, we shall see.
[01:07:46] Jenni: it's not easy. It's not easy. But to turn it around, we're gonna go outreach and give the spark of stem and engineering and software and just hopefully, um, redirect them because, um, I've said this [01:08:00] before, I think it's one of the best professions to be in. It's always changing and challenging and interesting and, um, uh, yeah, I love it.
Tanisha, if people wanna get in touch with you, how would they do that?
[01:08:16] Tanisha Hall: Hmm. Let's see. I am on LinkedIn for sure. Um, Tanisha, aha. I think I have, um, the, the link, uh, for that.
[01:08:26] Jenni: Yeah, we'll share that.
[01:08:27] Tanisha Hall: I, I have a Twitter and an Instagram I'm hardly ever on. Like I hardly ever post on Twitter, but I do respond and I do, I am on it. Cause I, I look at stuff I just hardly ever post there. Um, I'm more so post on LinkedIn and sometimes on.
Which is not really public. But, um, then Instagram, all Tanisha o um, O is my middle initial. So I'm normally Tanisha O and then LinkedIn, Tanisha O Hall. And if you don't put that O in there, you won't find me . So,[01:09:00]
[01:09:01] Jenni: Fantastic. So we wanna thank you, Tanisha, for joining us today as well as all, as well as all of you in the audience listening in. If you enjoyed this conversation, drop us the line at interface podcast@pros.com or find us on LinkedIn. Please also rate a, review us on whatever platform you're listening from.
It helps the show tremendously and we want your feedback to make the show better. We encourage you to go out and continue this conversation and even start your own. We'll meet you back here for the next episode from our crew to yours. Have a good one.
[01:09:35] Siara: Bye
[01:09:36] Jenni: Bye.