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Welcome to The Foster Friendly Podcast. We’re bringing foster care closer to home by sharing stories from the front lines. We're talking with former foster youth, foster parents and others who are finding unique and powerful ways to dramatically improve the experiences and outcomes for kids in foster care.
The Foster Friendly podcast is brought to you by America’s Kids Belong, a nonprofit that helps kids in foster care find belonging in both family and community.
Courtney (00:01.304)
Hello and welcome to the Foster Friendly podcast. It is now the month of November and we are kicking off National Adoption Month as well as it's Native American Heritage Month. So we're excited about our guests today. I am Courtney Williams, joined with my co-host Travis Vongesness. And with us today, we have a couple. We don't always get to do couples, so it's fun when we get more than one just added face and get to hear from, you know, guys and gals and all the fun stuff behind foster care and adoption.
But today we have with us Greg and Sam Holbach, who have been happily married for 13 years and live just a few minutes from the beach in Daytona. That's super fun. I live by the mountains and so we love to vacation at the beach, but yeah, it's kind of like the opposite setting. They're proud parents of two Lakota daughters, ages eight and six, who were adopted through our I Belong Project. So we're very glad to have you guys with us. Welcome to the podcast.
Greg Hollback (00:53.178)
Thank you so much for having us.
Samantha (00:53.462)
Thank you.
Courtney (00:55.586)
Yeah. Go ahead, Travis, take it away.
Travis (00:55.827)
Well...
Well, just, was chomping at the bit here to go after Daytona and summer and beaches and stuff. we're all in that mode, but so yeah, tell us more about life in Daytona with the kids. You know, what's it like living in a destination area like that? And I was also wondering, do you have to wear earplugs during the Daytona 500? it's, tell it. All right. Bring us into Daytona life.
Courtney (01:02.466)
Yeah.
Greg Hollback (01:16.656)
That's a good question. To Courtney's point, folks who live in the mountains probably vacation at the beach, but we took our family to the Colorado mountains just this summer to vacation there. So it's just a little bit of cross-cultural travel there. you know, living in Daytona Beach for us is really a dream came true. We both are originally from Ohio, the winters and the cold, we were, you know, like we were spending all of our free time.
summer break, winter break, going to Florida, living at the beach. And we just thought, man, you know what? We could probably do the same job, but live closer to the ocean. So we found a place where we could call home in Daytona. And it's been great for us. I'll let Sam touch on some of the hobbies we do, and then I'll talk about the race and some of the other popular events we have here.
Samantha (02:09.162)
Yeah, I love this area because there is always something to do with it being a tourist destination. There's an art walk this weekend. We spend most of our weekends at the beach. There are dog parks, splash pads for the kids, and just so many parks and it's just beautiful all the time.
My favorite time of year is Christmas because we have the best weather at Christmas. It's usually in that 75 to 80 degree range and you know to just drive around with your windows down and see the Christmas lights and you know it's just beautiful.
Travis (02:36.157)
Yes.
Travis (02:48.38)
I feel like Florida knows how to do Christmas too. Florida loves lights.
Courtney (02:48.654)
That's so funny.
Samantha (02:49.986)
you
Courtney (02:51.95)
See, that's not Christmas to me. So I'm glad people like that, because I would not be okay with that. I need to have snow. I need to be like cool, fireside. I don't get it.
Greg Hollback (02:56.751)
Yeah.
Travis (03:00.958)
But the white sand is their snow Courtney, have to just immerse in the...
Samantha (03:06.786)
Last year we built a sand man instead of a snowman.
Greg Hollback (03:06.96)
We built sand castles instead of snowmen.
Courtney (03:09.966)
Yeah
Yeah, I love it. After Christmas. I'll visit after Christmas.
Greg Hollback (03:14.458)
Yeah.
You know, most of the world knows Daytona Beach from wild MTV spring break videos that you mentioned, the Daytona 500. We have a really popular bike week and Biketoberfest. And the Daytona 500 and bike week oftentimes bring 300,000 people to town. But what a lot of people don't know is that, in reality, Daytona Beach is a pretty relatively small beach town of about 80,000 full-time residents.
Travis (03:22.748)
Ever.
Courtney (03:33.955)
Wow.
Travis (03:33.991)
Wow.
Travis (03:45.255)
Okay.
Greg Hollback (03:46.158)
Yeah, we have access to pristine beaches, lighthouses, dolphin watching, plenty of beautiful parks that Sam was talking about. And we have all those added benefits of being a tourist destination. But when those tourists leave, we get it all to ourselves. And that's really the most beautiful part of living here for us. So you could find us on the beach on a boogie board, beachside at a restaurant, the kids and the family here. love our...
Courtney (04:00.91)
Yeah.
Travis (04:01.093)
Duh.
Greg Hollback (04:11.982)
Never-ending quest to find the best tacos or pizza in town, but we're always hitting up a new restaurant. It's a good time.
Courtney (04:15.544)
Yeah.
Travis (04:17.566)
Well, you guys sound like great ambassadors to Daytona, Florida, so yeah. Except for Christmas.
Courtney (04:20.353)
It sounds fun.
Yes, you're selling me.
Greg Hollback (04:26.992)
Please stay where you are. Florida is full. Daytona is full. No more people allowed. Please come and visit. Please come visit.
Samantha (04:27.158)
Thank
Courtney (04:30.062)
That's what we say too, so I get it. I live in a tourist town.
Samantha (04:32.181)
you
Travis (04:32.478)
Ha
Travis (04:37.266)
That's funny. Okay. So before we get further into your story, which I'm really looking forward to and kind of the topic at hand, really fascinated by both of your, your guys's work in the community where you're at. So first of all, with Greg, it sounds like, you know, your vice president of philanthropy at the youth advocate program. And then Sam, you are doing stuff, amazing stuff with math coaching in your local schools. So if you guys could both kind of just tell us a little bit more of what you're doing in your community, that stuff.
Greg Hollback (05:07.63)
Yeah, Sam, please lead us off.
Samantha (05:09.62)
Okay, so I'm a math coach at the elementary school where our daughters actually go. So that's really, really sweet that I get to see them all the time. But basically I provide support to the teachers to improve math instruction for student achievement. So a lot of it comes down to data analysis.
Getting creative with how we're providing instruction, diving deeper into those benchmarks that students are struggling with, and then how to remediate those, helping plan for those state tests. It's a lot of fun and I was a math teacher for many years and then to have this opportunity where I can coach.
up the current teachers and work with the students. It's really been a great position. And we're starting school again soon. And so we're ramping up right now.
Travis (06:09.736)
Cool.
Courtney (06:10.53)
That's cool.
Courtney (06:17.454)
Yeah, I love it. I was an instructional reading coach, literacy coach for many years before I left the school setting. So yeah, I understand the work and the numbers and all the stuff.
Samantha (06:22.402)
Thank
Travis (06:22.419)
haha
Greg Hollback (06:30.0)
Yeah, I started teaching too right out of college. I taught high school government. And so I'm glad Sam has gone back to teaching and spend time in the classroom with the kids. And it's job I miss doing. So I'm proud of her for doing that. But yeah, Travis, I have the privilege of serving as the vice president of philanthropy at youth advocate programs. And we are a national nonprofit where we work to keep young people
Travis (06:36.783)
well.
Greg Hollback (06:58.604)
safely connected to their homes and communities by offering what we call community-based alternatives to youth incarceration or facility-based foster care placements. So instead of a youth being placed in a juvenile detention center or a congregate-based foster care system, we work with social workers at the community level or what we call advocates to help these youths stay connected to their community, live in the homes in which they're from.
instead of going to prison or a congregate care facility. Our organization serves just over 20,000 families all across the United States. We also have five international offices that are sprinkled throughout the world. And what we do is we partner with justice services, child welfare services, educational systems to keep kids safe and keep them in their own communities.
Travis (07:53.638)
Cool. We'd love to provide links to that in the show notes since there's a national presence for that. So cool mission.
Greg Hollback (07:58.885)
Thank you.
Courtney (08:00.142)
Yeah. So as we kicked off this episode, I shared that it is the kickoff of National Adoption Month and Native American Heritage Month. And so that's why you guys are on. So we want to dive into that a little bit more, dive into your adoption journey and also your girls being Lakota. tell us, how did you find out about your girls being, they were not close to you in proximity when you found out about them and ended up adopting them?
Greg Hollback (08:23.408)
Yeah, Sam, do you want me to start or would you like to start? Okay. just, you know, just one of the things we wanted to share with the families out there that may be looking to foster to adopt or go straight to adoption like we did is that it takes a long time and you're going to look at a lot of websites. You're going to be referred to a lot of sources. And for in our particular case, we were, we ended up in a national nationwide search and it took us
Samantha (08:26.016)
Yeah, go ahead.
Greg Hollback (08:52.15)
months and months to be matched with the right kids. So for those of you out there who are feeling kind of stressed or anxious about being placed with some youngsters, it's okay. It'll come in time. So we spent a lot of time looking at different sites, trying to find databases that had foster to adopt or straight to adopt kids in it that we were looking for. And we were really fortunate to find America's Kids Belong.
database, the I Belong Project, which allowed us to search for kids nationwide. And it was a wonderful tool with really well done profiles, really carefully crafted videos. We saw the girls profile. We watched their video a couple times and watched their eyes light up. Their sense of humor was really brought out in the video. And to us, it was really obvious the love that they had for each other being sisters.
Travis (09:40.304)
Mm-hmm.
Greg Hollback (09:49.304)
We knew we needed to inquire. And a couple of times after we watched that video, Sam stood up from the couch and started walking to the kitchen. And she said, hey, Greg, you know what? If we could, we'd adopt those girls tomorrow.
Travis (10:02.888)
Mmm. Mmm.
Courtney (10:05.262)
How old were they at the time when you saw the video?
Samantha (10:09.203)
In their video they were three and five.
Courtney (10:13.504)
Okay. Okay. So Sam, take us now, you you see that video and then what did that kind of how did that process unfold from there?
Samantha (10:23.826)
So from there, we submitted an inquiry and then we just waited. And the next day, know, the girls just fascinated us. So we went back to the website to see their video again and it was gone. It was, it had been taken down and we were like, man, that's, that's too bad. They were so sweet.
Courtney (10:41.07)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (10:41.475)
no.
Samantha (10:49.29)
And so we were, you know, we felt a little down, but we're like, okay, so we, just keep looking. and then it was maybe the next day that we got a call and they wanted to talk to us specifically about them. And we were like, no way. We were so excited. Yeah. So now we know why it was taken down. You know, there were some good inquiries and we happened to be one of them. And so, yeah, we started the process.
Travis (11:03.902)
Your Wyatt came down!
Courtney (11:05.614)
Yeah.
Samantha (11:18.272)
that day and we were just shocked that we were being considered.
Greg Hollback (11:24.42)
Yeah, it was was next day, same week, social services called and said they'd like us to interview, review our home study to be placed with the kids. And we waited a few days for them to review our responses. They looked at our home study, other factors that go into the placement. And it was it was really such a fulfilling and happy time for us when we received the call weeks later that we were accepted as the parents and we could finally move forward with being a family.
And again, to those folks out there that are worried about the timeline of it, it does take a long time and there is some anxiety involved, but you know that if you're patient and stick with it, good things will come. So from the time of inquiry to the time of placement for us was probably saying maybe four or five months.
Samantha (12:18.38)
to the time of placement, it was more like...
Greg Hollback (12:20.304)
When we got the call that we would get the kids, yeah, placement was a lot longer. Yeah, I'll let Sam continue on through the story there. After we got the call, we had traveled a bit.
Samantha (12:23.723)
yeah, that was probably four to five months. Placement was longer.
Travis (12:28.498)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (12:28.662)
Yeah.
Samantha (12:37.718)
Yeah, we went out to visit a few different times and we would try to stay for two to three weeks at a time to get to know them. we, from the time we initially traveled to visit them for the very first time to the time of placement, that alone was about six months.
Travis (13:01.481)
So what was it like to like I mean so the video you're in love with you know and it's sort of this it's starting to feel real and then you see him in person for the first time I mean can you even describe I mean is this did it what was some of that like
Samantha (13:17.618)
For me, was shocking how quick the girls just took to us. As soon as we saw them, my youngest grabbed my hand and she just started calling me mom. were like, Greg and I kept looking at each other like, is this real? Is this happening? But they're both very outgoing and they've never met a stranger.
Travis (13:33.319)
haha
Travis (13:38.782)
Hahaha
Courtney (13:39.758)
You
Samantha (13:46.605)
They've definitely had a lot of really great adult influences in their life. So, you know, they had no hesitation about just getting to know us and being open. And, you know, that it was really easy to start getting to know them because they were just immediately just, let's do this.
Courtney (14:10.094)
you
Travis (14:10.14)
Mmm.
Greg Hollback (14:10.788)
Yeah, and they had, you know, obviously had a really great team around them, you know, of social service workers, foster moms and dads, foster families that they had stayed with that really helped prep them, I think, for this reality that they were walking into. And I might share it with you off the call, Travis and Courtney, but you asked about what it's like when you meet your kids for the first time. Sam has a picture of me standing in front of our rental car, our Subaru.
And she took a picture of me right before we met the kids. And I had to hold on to the door handle of the car because I was shaking so much with anticipation and being nervous. Like, my gosh, this is really happening. And we were just scanning. We were in a parking lot waiting to do the meetup. And we were just scanning every car that went by. Does that one have our kids in it? Does that one have our kids in it? it was wild.
Courtney (14:47.512)
No.
Travis (14:47.814)
Wow. Yeah.
Courtney (14:50.414)
you
Travis (15:02.864)
I love that.
Courtney (15:07.297)
Yeah, I do want to just highlight quickly that, you you guys talking about deciding to adopt, deciding to foster, you know, we do get a lot of pushback on people saying, you know, this is like shopping for kids or it's unethical. And the reality is there are 100,000 kids around the United States waiting to be adopted. And you guys even pointed out, you know, seeing these videos that are well-crafted, that are crafted with permission, you know,
It's not just, we just pop up and do these things. They are very well planned and, you know, trauma informed and all the stuff behind them. But when you see a video, it just gives you such a better glimpse into who this child is or these children are, than just a picture would. And I think it gives the kids more chances of permanency. So I totally get some people's pushback on it. I do, just want to highlight that. Like we do as America's Kids Belong, we take it very seriously. We don't think it's the perfect solution, but we think it's the right solution for these kids that are.
Travis (15:33.213)
Yeah.
Travis (15:43.314)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (15:59.822)
currently waiting and looking for a home, needing a home.
Travis (16:04.093)
Yeah.
Greg Hollback (16:04.328)
absolutely. I don't know if you wanted to comment on that, you know, we watching the kids video, it was very clear to us that the team that the American, the AKB team that recorded that video was very careful, very instructive and kind and, and really took care to let the kids be in their own space and really share what they wanted to share without forcing anything. And the kids, you know, to their credit,
Travis (16:28.082)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Greg Hollback (16:34.018)
As outgoing as they are, the video that AKB had just really highlighted the kids being genuine. And at no point did it feel like, I think you used the phrase shopping for kids, but at no point did we ever think that.
Travis (16:47.486)
Hmm.
Courtney (16:47.758)
Yeah.
Samantha (16:50.082)
And
I'll just add additionally, we did the trauma informed care courses before we started looking and we were telling our siblings about the courses and both of our siblings have biological kids and they both commented that every parent should take these kinds of courses because it would benefit every parent no matter if your children are adopted
Courtney (17:17.398)
Agreed.
Samantha (17:21.98)
or biological. So taking the courses not only was a huge benefit for adopting, anybody who's working with children or have their own children, those courses are invaluable.
Travis (17:39.294)
Hmm. Yeah. I love the feedback too of, yeah, just of, of kind of affirming, on your side of things of, what you saw on the care and safety and the just, empowering and letting those kids just, you know, be, be comfortable wanting to say what they want and show who they are. And, yeah, I love that you said that Courtney, cause yeah, the, thing is, is like you said, is also that people push back on is, you know,
And you did touch on this, but yeah, one in four of the kids nationally that are in foster care are on track to permanency because they don't have any other than they are rights have been terminated by the parents or they've relinquished them. so they otherwise they're just going to languish in foster care. So it isn't like competing against, you know, going home. mean, they are not going home. So, yeah, so that's a little different category. So, kind of continue your guys' story.
Courtney (18:28.566)
Yeah.
Courtney (18:33.486)
So, that's the end of the story. I feel free to go back as well and talk to you.
Travis (18:36.414)
and feel free to go back as well as thoughts hit you. as Courtney kicked us off, kind of with this focus on tribal, okay, this is an edit. What do we call this?
Courtney (18:49.306)
Native American Heritage Month.
Travis (18:51.248)
Okay, Native American Heritage Month. so in light of Native American Heritage Month and kind of that focus and emphasis, what did you guys see in your story in terms of the extra care, the coordination, and that aspect of sort of the tribal relationship in this situation?
Greg Hollback (19:13.268)
Yeah, you know, when we started the process and the inquiry with AKB through the I Belong project and then subsequently with the calls with social services team, every step of the process from placement to, excuse me, from review of our home study to eventual interview to placement of us with the kids to them, you know, finally finalizing adoption, every step of the process from start to finish.
included both the social services team and the tribal team. So one unique part of the process was that the tribal court worked with us and required that we had to write, you know, had to really sit down and think about and write out a comprehensive cultural plan for the girls once they were placed with us. So we worked hard to explain, well first of all, we worked hard to learn the culture, learn some of the language.
Samantha (19:59.266)
you
Greg Hollback (20:10.468)
learn some of the practices that we could incorporate into our own family and our home here. And we had to explain how we would work with the kids to learn about their tribe, learn about their language, keep in touch with the tribal roots. And as the final adoption court hearing was held, we can say with a warm heart, it's been a big privilege of ours to have been selected by the tribe as parents for the kids.
I'm rambling now. I'd like Sam to touch on it a little bit.
Samantha (20:41.954)
No, I think you covered it pretty well.
Greg Hollback (20:51.032)
Yeah, it's just every step that you might have with the social services department, you have that same step with the tribe. So you have to do everything twice, which we didn't mind at all because it was a learning opportunity for us. But if there are families out there that are going through that process, just know that you have to do it twice.
Travis (20:57.619)
Mmm.
Courtney (21:14.702)
So we have a daughter who we adopted through foster care, but she's originally from Ethiopia. And so we've gotten to know the Ethiopian culture and hair and food and, you know, lot of stuff that I just didn't know would come into our house. And I just love it. I love all aspects of it. So are there some new things that you guys have, you know, events you've gone to or foods that you've tried that you're like, I would have never thought. And now it's just part of your daily life or your yearly life.
Greg Hollback (21:37.513)
Sam, you want to start?
Samantha (21:39.659)
Yeah, so there's been a lot because the more we learn, the more interest that we have and we want to incorporate it and share it with the girls. And especially our oldest, she really loves to learn. mean, she loves to learn anything, but when we're presenting any kind of tribal information, she just grasp onto it and she wants to use it and tell people about it.
So one of the biggest ones was we incorporated a word of the week. And so we've been taking really common phrases like time to eat or let's go, good morning, good night, you know, anything that a parent would say at least on a daily basis. And we've translated it into their language and we have it as a word of the week. so...
the girls are learning it as we're learning it and we hang them on their bedroom door so that as time passes it's kind of like a little flip card. They can look at it in English on one side and then they can see it in Lakota on the other side. And they look at those all the time and sometimes they'll ask for specific words like they wanted to learn the word for grandma and they wanted to learn the word for please and
So those, it's fun to hear them get excited about, hey, can you open the dictionary and look up this word? And so we'll make a new card for it. Powwow has been another integration into our life. We actually didn't even know about the Indian Heritage Association that's here in basically our backyard. And so, you know, once the girls
Courtney (23:12.27)
No.
Travis (23:12.702)
Ha ha.
Samantha (23:34.881)
were here and living with us. When we started trying to find ways to incorporate their culture locally, we found the Indian Heritage Association and they hold powwows, I think two a year. So we contacted their social services team about.
getting customary regalia and we were able to obtain that. so now when we take them to powwow, they're wearing the jingle dresses, they have ribbon skirts, they will go out and do dance because we'll watch YouTube videos about how to dance and they practice here in the living room and they really enjoy going to powwow.
Travis (24:16.384)
Samantha (24:23.612)
showing that off and it really you can see how special it is especially to the oldest one she you know she'll just glow when she's out there dancing.
Travis (24:34.013)
That's awesome.
Courtney (24:34.358)
That's wonderful. Yeah.
Greg Hollback (24:36.088)
Yeah, I'll add that incorporating that language piece to our life has been really a lot of fun for all of us, for all four of us. we can, put my hand up here for little edit if you need to. But I'd like to really, really call out the great work that the Lakota Language Consortium has done because they have an app featuring the Lakota dictionary.
Travis (24:49.202)
Mm-hmm.
Travis (24:57.617)
Hmm.
Greg Hollback (25:01.452)
which has been just been the best tool for us. So shout out to Langwood Lakota Language Consortium. Then we also have a language game app called Awak Sapa, which is a kids game that they can learn kid phrases and really helped us learn the language too. And I'll say that learning Lakota has been really useful in for us in public settings, especially.
Travis (25:06.046)
Cool.
Greg Hollback (25:30.736)
When you're trying to like shout across the playground to get their attention, it's easy for us to shout, wey-yah-tee-wah-hey, which means let's go family. And only our two kids will look up and realize it's time to leave. And, know, we have several phrases like that that we'll shout out in public or just know within the four of us. You know, or like when the kids at the end of school get an academic award, they're both in gymnastics, so they'll be competing on the beam.
Samantha (25:35.948)
Thank
Travis (25:37.736)
Yeah.
Travis (25:43.652)
Yeah, that's great.
Courtney (25:46.529)
Yeah.
Samantha (25:55.683)
Thank
Greg Hollback (26:00.652)
on the floor or something and dad wants to embarrass them and I'll shout out, wayah, ohitika, akichita, which means wayah, let's go brave warrior, know, just encouraging them through their own language. So it's been a lot of fun for all four of us to learn that. It's almost like a, I don't know, a secret family language that not a lot of people know.
Travis (26:22.3)
Yeah, I bet.
Greg Hollback (26:23.47)
But I'm going to let Sam, if you would, tell the story about us at Powwow with the girls talking in their language.
Samantha (26:31.138)
Yeah, at the last powwow we went to, there was an older gentleman who, he's Lakota, and he was really excited. He recognized the jingle dresses that the girls were wearing because there's like a patch on it. So he recognized that. So he came over and he talked to us and he was really excited when Tate, or sorry.
it edited that out when our oldest introduced herself in Lakota. And so they started talking in Lakota and she was sharing all the words and the phrases that she knows. And he actually got teary eyed and he was just overwhelmed to hear her speaking Lakota and knowing those phrases. he was, it was just, it was really heartwarming to see.
Travis (27:01.842)
Ha ha ha.
Courtney (27:01.969)
Hehe.
Samantha (27:27.872)
those two just chatting and what words they knew and he was telling her a couple of new words and it was really sweet.
Courtney (27:36.974)
You probably can't see I am tearing up right now because it just makes me think of my kids. I have multiple kids from different cultures and I do get, I've gotten many times from other people like those kids don't belong in your family or know comments like that and my personal belief is kids belong first in their families if it's safe and viable then within their extended family then within their culture and then if not it doesn't always work out that way and for most of my adopted kids that's been their story.
Travis (27:37.672)
That's very cool.
Travis (28:00.456)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney (28:04.198)
And we try our best to teach them language, teach food, culture, traditions. And, you know, we're not going to get it perfectly, but it sounds like you guys are doing a really good job of trying to show your girls that that matters and that heritage is so important and that you are investing in that and investing in that for them. So I appreciate that a lot. And I do just want to say that if you're listening and if you are considering adopting or you have adopted cross-culturally,
It is so important, it's imperative to dive in and to really give your kids that aspect of who they are.
Travis (28:36.158)
Yeah, well said.
Greg Hollback (28:36.794)
Yeah, thank you. It's been a real privilege to learn the culture and share that with our kids because we were doing, like you said, Courtney, we're trying to do our level best to keep them connected to their culture and make a difference for them.
Travis (28:53.156)
I, what I love too is I think, you know, this is a broader discussion even around just, know, the native American heritage. think we know historically the treatment of native Americans, you know, just through the years and what that looked like with settling and expansion. And, and yet when I think of how little probably most Americans know, you know, of native American culture of history, there's just very little overlap. And what I've, what I've learned and seen is just the dignity and the,
pride and the respect of the people too. mean, you know, even like the Navajo language won the Pacific in World War II. I mean, that's just, I love the code talker stuff. It's just, but even that wasn't recognized until, I mean, wasn't it like, I think Obama's term or something. I mean, how long that was after World War II. So even in all of this, you know, there's, there's this aspect too of just, you know, Native American heritage. That's really, yeah.
It's new to all Americans. and you guys immersing in there. I was going to ask you overall, like your experiences as white Americans kind of entering into those spaces. mean, that had to feel intimidating early on, especially I would think of just like, where's my place here? How am I going to be received? mean, talk a little bit about the reception and kind of what that was for you guys.
Samantha (29:57.153)
Thank you.
Greg Hollback (30:18.736)
Yeah, we may throw up a hand here for another edit because this is pretty personal stuff that we'll share some raw stories with you, and you can determine if they're appropriate or not to use for your podcast.
Travis (30:26.174)
Sure, yeah.
Greg Hollback (30:35.768)
Let me think of where to start on that. Sam, you want to talk about how going out in – this is the edit, but we can – going out with the kids in South Dakota and getting looks? Or do you want us to talk about how uncomfortable powwow was at first? know, Travis and Courtney, – it is difficult for – initially for us to be in South Dakota in public with two
Samantha (30:55.306)
Thank you.
Travis (30:58.982)
Yeah. Yeah.
Greg Hollback (31:02.766)
Native girls in very heavily native populated areas. And like who are these two white guys, these two white people with our baby?
Samantha (31:10.978)
Yeah, we could definitely, when we were there visiting the first time, we could feel eyes on us. And it was almost like, you know, it's a very tight knit community. They could tell that we didn't belong. But then we're here with two little native girls and, you know, we could definitely feel eyes on us and sort of like judgment on why are you here or what are you doing?
Travis (31:11.26)
Yeah.
Samantha (31:41.859)
We just sort of, you know, continued with our day and kind of like kept an eye around, like, just to make sure, like, you know, everything's fine. We're not here to harm anybody, but the eyes were definitely there. And at one point we took the girls to a trampoline park and, you know, we felt the same way. Like we could definitely tell people we're watching and like, you know,
Travis (31:51.4)
Mm-hmm.
Samantha (32:10.274)
Who are they? At no point were they rude, they didn't say anything, but we could feel the eyes. that sort of, to me, as a woman, with two little girls, just made me see that these girls are really important. They need to be really well taken care of. People, the strangers around us,
Travis (32:17.608)
Yeah.
Samantha (32:39.848)
they're concerned for their safety right now and I'm going to make sure that I keep them as safe as possible.
Travis (32:47.486)
Yeah, it's real.
Greg Hollback (32:50.818)
Yeah, yeah, there's some very real stuff. I don't know how much will make it into, you know.
Travis (32:54.374)
Yeah. And I, I, I mean, part of it is like, obviously that it did. I, some, some things questions hit as we're just having this organic conversation. And I, to me, that's like an elephant in the room thing. I'm just like, what was, but you know, I also like, you know, depending on the answer and what you're comfortable with, it's like, yeah, that may be not something. Cause I mean, it wasn't like you have all these stories or necessarily sharing of like, yeah, everywhere we went, nor should we expect that, but that they were embracing us and we're, know, I mean, I was just kind of curious.
Courtney (32:54.702)
Yeah, and I think part of it is like, obviously, it's edited. Something to question for this happen, I don't know what they show. For me, that's like an elephant in a room thing. I'm just like, what? But, you know, also like, depending on the ambience, like, yeah, that's not good. Because I mean, wasn't like the whole story, the episode, like, yeah, everybody was doing it. What should we expect, though? But that they were embracing that, you know, I was thankful.
Greg Hollback (33:00.497)
Samantha (33:22.998)
Yeah.
Greg Hollback (33:23.472)
Now, Sam and I, had to work at it. We had to demonstrate to the tribe that we were learning the language. We learned about the different make-ups of the reservation. had to learn. We had to kind of prove ourselves that we could do this. us learning the language and going to powwow was one of our, I don't want to say coming out party, one of our like,
are stepping out into the world as a family together with cross-cultural family. The first powwow we went to, no kidding, was a bit uncomfortable because, and you can use this, we're two white people taking natives to a powwow where there aren't a lot of white people. But sure enough, our daughters are showing up, full regalia, dancing around powwow just like everybody else was. And I think...
Travis (34:09.766)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sure.
Greg Hollback (34:21.41)
Sam and I were the only ones uncomfortable there. We just kind of took that upon ourselves, I guess. And then the second and third time we came around to Pow Wow, folks, they embraced us more, they had more questions, they recognized the logos on our regalia, the horse and everything for the tribal logos, and it was way more welcoming. And that's probably more from us than it was the tribe.
Courtney (34:24.248)
Hmm.
Travis (34:24.52)
Hmm.
Travis (34:45.043)
Hmm.
Greg Hollback (34:50.338)
at the powwow because we just didn't know what to expect. And then once we opened ourselves up to more conversations and talking in the language to other people around powwow, it became really commonplace now for us to interact with our Florida Indian heritage partners. And we get together sometimes on the weekends with some folks that live up the road that are part of the tribe and we just spend time together.
I think to answer your question, Travis, it was probably more on us as being uncomfortable than it was the community putting pressure on us. was Sam and Greg as parents trying to fill a gap, I suppose. I don't know how much of that you can use.
Travis (35:24.478)
sure.
Travis (35:31.709)
Yeah.
Samantha (35:34.038)
Yeah.
Travis (35:34.974)
Yeah, I love that. That's a really honest and good answer.
Courtney (35:36.566)
Yeah.
Samantha (35:42.044)
And, know, one thing I like about being here in Daytona, it's a very diverse area. So here we feel really at home and we don't even give it a second thought because there are a lot of multicultural families here and we just sort of blend in with them. And it doesn't feel odd to be around.
this very diverse area like going to the beach or going to the mall and you know it's just commonplace here. Yeah.
Greg Hollback (36:16.496)
Yeah, it's just our family. And I have the privilege sometimes of going to the school and seeing, you know, plays or academic awards or something. But Sam's there all the time with the kids and interacting and everything. But when I get to show up, I get to see how our youngest daughter will walk through the hallways with Sam and will say, this is my mom, this is my mom. And then other kids that I obviously in the school have never interacted with before.
Travis (36:40.958)
Ha ha. Ha ha.
Greg Hollback (36:46.436)
They'll come up and they'll say, are you their dad? Because we know you. that's their mom. It's just so common here for us to just be known as the parents. That's a privilege that the kids there at the school and in our neighborhood just accept us as a family. to your listeners, that's what we're going for, I guess, is to be accepted as a family eventually. And it'll come in time.
Travis (36:52.926)
Ha ha ha.
Travis (36:57.918)
That's cool.
Travis (37:16.382)
Hmm.
Courtney (37:16.558)
Yeah.
Greg Hollback (37:16.805)
And we're privileged in that.
Travis (37:21.064)
Hmm. Well said. Yeah. I was going to add one, one kind of thing to it made me reflective. Not the same, but just also that, you know, in my experience of adopting our two boys who are African-American, early on when we were the, you know, their foster parents, had an opportunity to attend, one of their aunts, think had passed away and, and they're the funeral at an all African-American church. And I was the only white person there. And I just remember the feeling of that, of like, you know,
kind of like, whoa, I'm not used to this at all. Like when you're sort of the, you know, in most contexts, the dominant white culture, you know, whatever homogenous area, it's like to be in that setting. And what I appreciated was by the end of it, I felt that I felt a little bit more that I could not in any way understand their context, but that
Courtney (37:59.406)
culture, whatever module area. And what I appreciated was by the end of it, was gone.
Travis (38:17.052)
like my boys who often would find themselves in more of a white culture and context, you know, after they left their biological home, like what that, you know, white church is and, know, I mean, like just a lot more compassion too of like what that feels like to sort of kind of be displaced from your comfort and like how I think that's really healthy to get to experience that. So.
Courtney (38:45.57)
Travis, you want to take us to the end?
Travis (38:48.958)
Okay, so really appreciate all of you guys's, yeah, just everything you've shared so far. But how would you finish this sentence? What youth were adopted through foster care really need is most is.
Greg Hollback (39:05.584)
Go ahead, Tim.
Samantha (39:09.3)
I would say time and attention. You know, we, with our oldest daughter, she definitely had some emotional issues, you know, first coming to our house and it was really hard. A lot of, you know, physical fighting, a lot of yelling and...
you know, we just had to give her so much time to adjust and, you know, accept the love that we wanted to give her. And once she did, after that time, she is just the most extraordinary girl. But she needed that time. She needed that attention to know that she was where she was safe and she was loved and she was wanted.
And with our youngest, I would say the same time and attention, she's also remarkable in so many ways, but you wouldn't know it if you didn't give her the time and the attention.
Greg Hollback (40:23.12)
Yeah, thanks, hon. And I would just add real briefly that if anybody out there's listening and is on the fence about adopting or is considering it, to finish your sentence, Travis, the youths and kids, they just need you. You don't have to be Superman or Supergirl or a hero. They just need you. You can be regular old mom and dad and work up to being a hero later. But just be yourself.
Courtney (40:51.662)
Hmm.
Greg Hollback (40:52.888)
And like Sam said, spend your time with them, give them the attention they need. And I'll end.
Courtney (41:02.894)
That's great. Thank you guys for joining us today, for sharing your story, sharing the Native American side of it, and then also just the adoption side. We're selling both of those months this month. For our listeners, have a whole month full of topics around this. We've got an Adoption Positive Language Trainer that's gonna come on and you'll hear from them. Also Adoption Grief Trainer. So we have some training, we have some great things that can use for CE credits.
Also some more adoption stories. And then as always use our resources online. You can go to fostercon.org and we have a whole webinar around foster care adoption. It's called Fostering Permanency. And then recently we launched Fostering Front Door. And if you go to the Fostering Front Door on our website, you can click on adoption through foster care and then you have all sorts of resources there, links to that webinar I mentioned, links to articles. Also just some questions that we often get about adoption and what it looks like.
Can you cross-date lines? What does that look like? All the questions. So use our resources. Dive in deep this month during National Adoption Month.
Thanks again.
Travis (42:08.03)
Thanks for being on guys.
Greg Hollback (42:10.958)
Yeah, our pleasure. Thanks for having us. And enough for nothing if you guys not that you want to feature us.
Samantha (42:12.918)
Thank you.