EP 53 Joe Tate Music, Japan, and the Power of Presentations

Joe Tate got into HR because his handwriting was better than the other guy's. He left one of his biggest roles because he refused to let his HRIS manager take the fall for a company-wide data breach. And somewhere in between, he built Boost HR, mentored hundreds of professionals through his six-week HR essentials course, and took a ski trip to Japan that ended up reshaping the way he thinks about people, culture, and the kind of workplace we all say we want but rarely build. Tony, Steve, and Joe cover a lot of territory in this one: why getting HR a seat at the table with the CFO is still a fight worth having, what promotion from within actually looks like when you celebrate it the way it deserves to be celebrated, and why live training is making a comeback that should have you rethinking your next all-hands. What can a heated bidet seat at 2 a.m. teach you about the employee experience? Listen and find out!   

Learn more about Joe Tate at: https://boostrecruits.com/ and https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-tate-a92b02/
Learn more about Fantastic Tony Benjamin at: https://www.thegrangellc.com/
Learn more about Steven "Big Deal" Smith at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/
Learn more about the Books mentioned on the podcast at: https://thehiringtreebook.com/hr-life-podcast
Learn more about Dyno Outfitters at: https://www.utahviaferrata.com/
Learn more about MegastarHR at: https://www.megastarhr.com/
Learn more about Pucks for Autism at: https://www.pucksforautism.com/

Voice audio distortion courtesy of The Internet.  

Joe Tate is a regionally renowned speaker, trainer, and source for HR compliance information.  After serving more than 1,000 clients with his company, Boost HR, he knows what he's talking about.  

Creators and Guests

Host

Fantastic Tony Benjamin

I am a unique HR leader with more than 20 years’ experience working for some of Utah’s oldest, fastest growing, and most well-known companies. My experience includes Superior Drilling Products, Air Medical Resource Group, Control4, Ovivo USA and Deseret Book. I am a regionally recognized authority on building successful cultures and am an alumni speaker at DisruptHR SLC and DisruptHR St. George. I have earned an MBA from the University of Phoenix, a Bachelor’s degree from Utah State University, and am a certified Professional of Human Resources (PHR). I'm married to a woman out of my league, have three brilliant kids I doesn’t deserve and, although I travel a lot, live in Vernal, Utah.

Host

Steven "Big Deal" Smith

Steve will be the first to tell you that recruiting is marketing. He earned his Bachelor of Science in Finance at Brigham Young University and started his career in recruiting in Feb 2005. In 2008, he took a risk during a recession to help start a new company with Ryan Kohler, called ApplicantPro, a full suite HR platform for small to mid-sized businesses. In March 2025, ApplicantPro became iSolved Talent Acquisition, now serving 177,000 clients and close to 9800 employees. Before the merger, ApplicantPro made the Inc 5000 list 12 years in a row, Top Places to work in Utah 3 years in a row, and Steve was named the Small Business Utah HR Achievement Award winner in May 2024. iSolved was also named an Indeed Platinum Partner in 2023, 2024, and 2025 and is one of only ten ATS platforms in the country to obtain that designation. SHRM-CP & PHR certified, Steve currently volunteers on the Utah SHRM State Council as the immediate past State Executive Director. His book, The Hiring Tree: Laws of Applicant Attraction, was released in early 2023, and has helped thousands of organizations across the country rethink their approach to hiring. If you need help understanding the principles and role of SEO, marketing, and AI when it comes to attracting job seekers, Steve provides a solid framework for hiring effectively.

What is The HR Life Podcast?

The HR Life Podcast is a show about the work-life experience of those of us in Human Resources and business leadership. This long-form podcast is a conversation, casual, and not always the corporate line. Hosts and guests touch on everything from serious or even controversial topics to the absurdity of modern American business practices. Your hosts are Tony Benjamin, owner and founder of The Grange Strategic HR Consulting, and Steven J. Smith, Author of The Hiring Tree: Laws of Applicant Attraction and all-around important guy. Guests include the best minds in the HR world. Join the show weekly.

Tony Benjamin (00:09.904)
Welcome to the HR Life Podcast, a podcast about the work-life experience of those of us in HR Human Resources and Business Leadership. Your hosts are fantastic Tony Benjamin, owner and founder of the Grange Strategic HR Consulting, and Steven Big Deal Smith, who is so famous that even the world-renowned Joe Tate thinks he's impressive. Hey Steve!

Edward Van Halen (00:35.913)
Thank you.

Steve-o (00:37.474)
Wow. Who's who's Joe Tate?

Tony Benjamin (00:39.376)
Yeah.

I don't know. I don't know. It's

Edward Van Halen (00:45.743)
It's Mr. Tay to you. It's Mr. Ta no, I'm just kidding

Steve-o (00:45.87)
I thought it I thought we I was I I thought it was Eddie Van Halen. I'm a little confused now. So there you go.

Tony Benjamin (00:52.57)
Yeah. For those of you listen right, the the Joe logged in today with with the name Eddie Van Halen is what he listed. It was Yeah, it really had to be official.

Steve-o (01:01.262)
Plus Edward. I and I I think the only reason he went with Edward is because he wanted to be able to say that there is H R in Edward Van Halen. Because if it's Eddie, there's no R there and you can't do that. And he wanted to be able to say that. So there you go.

Edward Van Halen (01:10.377)
True. That's right.

Tony Benjamin (01:11.122)
Ha ha ha

Tony Benjamin (01:15.748)
That's right. That's right. So okay, before we do anything else, everybody welcome Joe Tate to the podcast. There we go. The crowd goes wild. Everybody watch out for that for those crowd jumpers, the people that are that are there in the trying to get across that velvet rope line. So yeah.

Steve-o (01:23.914)
Yeah.

Steve-o (01:39.224)
Yeah, sometimes they'll grab you, Joe, and they'll you know they'll start, you know, taking you around. So mm-hmm. I believe yeah. Yeah, yeah, they'll take stuff. Totally take stuff.

Edward Van Halen (01:43.721)
Pull you back.

Tony Benjamin (01:44.984)
Yeah, cutting your little pieces of your hair off and to as a souvenir and yeah, yeah. So you gotta watch out for all that. It's it's a Beatles thing all over again.

Edward Van Halen (01:53.713)
It's a bucket list item. We need to crowd surf. So it should be, yeah, for sure.

Steve-o (01:56.625)
Ha ha.

We had one of our guests one time actually say she was ground surfing. It was hilarious. So so now we joke about it. Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (01:59.376)
That's

Tony Benjamin (02:04.24)
Yeah, it was good. She's like, Look, I'm crowd surfing. Yeah, we joke about that all the time. So I am sure though, Joe, when your band plays, you crowd surf all the time, I'm sure, right? Your crowds are big enough.

Edward Van Halen (02:18.695)
Back in the day I had some big crowds, but yeah, yeah.

Tony Benjamin (02:22.992)
That's what I that's exactly what I thought. We'll see there.

Steve-o (02:25.708)
What what do you what do you play, Joe? I don't e I d I see, I don't even know that Joe's in a band. Here we go. I'm completely ignorant here. Nice.

Edward Van Halen (02:31.345)
I play I play guitar. I play guitar. But I'm what I'm one of those between songs, I'm the guy that takes over the mic and and talks to the people. You gotta you you gotta connect, you know? Yeah, it's not just about it r repeating exactly the song as the way it is on the album. You gotta, yeah, you gotta banter. That's what we need, some banter.

Steve-o (02:41.944)
Yeah, yeah.

Steve-o (02:49.176)
No, it's so true. That's cool.

Tony Benjamin (02:52.058)
That's you know what, Joe, th you're exactly right. One of my pet peeves about seeing live music is the band stands up there, plays a song, and it's really good. And then they stand around, look at each other for a few minutes and one of nods and then they start playing the next song. Drives me freaking bonkers. Mm, yeah. Yeah. They might have a planned, hey, sing along or something like that, but nothing else, right? They just don't talk to the crowd. That I don't know, that drives me bonkers. So

Steve-o (03:06.878)
No comments, no wow.

Edward Van Halen (03:15.433)
Yeah.

Steve-o (03:18.318)
Yeah, you gotta talk to the crowd. I mean, I've been to some decent concerts in my day, like Garth Brooks and one of my favorites was Brad Paisley by far. Like he just he had such a good concert. So yeah. I'm a huge fan of that. Like they gotta talk to you. And believe it or not, my wife has been to several Taylor Swift before Taylor. This was when Taylor Swift Swift was still country. And in fact, she's got some pictures. Taylor Swift's dad actually took the pictures. So there you go.

Edward Van Halen (03:41.062)
Ooh, wow.

Tony Benjamin (03:48.442)
How?

Steve-o (03:49.228)
Yeah. Yeah, and then we went to w w one of my other favorites was Alabama.

Tony Benjamin (03:51.386)
Kate, do you do you hear that, Joe? Joe, do you hear that? No matter what he does, the story ends with some famous person involved. Like I don't I don't know how to s I just just saying, okay, what what what happened at an Alabama concert? I'm sure it involves a band member.

Edward Van Halen (03:54.995)
But

Steve-o (04:00.27)
It was just your dad.

Edward Van Halen (04:00.634)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve-o (04:11.214)
Okay, so it does it does. So so the thing is the thing is is like Alabama, so they went to JSU, Jack, which is Jacksonville State University. It's where my wife went to school for nursing. Two of my daughters gone to school there. My mom went there. In fact, my mom was there when Randy Owen was there. And and so when we went to the concert in Utah about golly, I think this is 15 years ago.

Tony Benjamin (04:12.835)
Yes, I win. I win.

Edward Van Halen (04:16.785)
Yeah.

Steve-o (04:37.676)
We held up a huge sign that said, you know, JSU Rocks and Go GSU. Randy Owen calls us out of the crowd and has us come and meet him at the end, in his little, you know, area with all the band members, just to ask us like where where did you hear about that? Like how how do how do you know about JSU type thing? 'Cause they they don't really promote it that much or talk about it. They'll do concerts there all the time. And so that's when we got to kinda tell him, Yeah, we and he had his little glass of wine and everything and he signed our our little tickets and stuff and

Gave us a guitar pick, it was kinda cool. So there you go.

Edward Van Halen (05:10.946)
Lovely.

Tony Benjamin (05:11.311)
Wow. You know, i and and Steve may not know who this is, but Joe, you will. The closest I got to anything like that is I went to see Living Color back in the day. And I saw them at the Utah Fairgrounds, and it was a pretty small venue, it's in an ampath a little an indoor amphitheater there, and my buddy and I were the only people sitting in seats, and we were kind of off to one side because we went to see Vernon Reed, the guitarist of of Living Color. That's it.

Edward Van Halen (05:23.496)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (05:39.069)
Yeah, yeah. Legend.

Tony Benjamin (05:41.177)
Right, right. jazz scales and rock hard rock. It was really cool. So we're there and we're the only two people on in the seats. Everybody else is down in the mosh pit. Like everybody. And we're the only two sitting up there. And he in the middle of a song stopped a rift and pointed to us and gave us the thumbs up. And then and then went on. So that's my closest I've come. That's right.

Steve-o (05:57.87)
That's awesome. You gotta love moments like that, right?

Edward Van Halen (06:03.145)
Well he was showing you respect. He wasn't he was he was down with the seats. Yeah.

Steve-o (06:06.454)
That's right. That's right.

Tony Benjamin (06:07.46)
That's right. That's right. That's exactly right. We were just there to hear him play those magic notes, man. So anyways, that was that's pretty good. Okay, well, everybody, welcome Joe Tate to the podcast. If if you haven't figured that out by now, Joe's here with us and we're thrilled to have you, Joe. You you know, you're one of the few people that we've interviewed that rivals Steve in terms of your big dealness. So it's a real honor for us to have you here.

Edward Van Halen (06:13.006)
Yeah, that's funny.

Steve-o (06:30.711)
Ha ha.

Edward Van Halen (06:31.453)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (06:35.022)
I don't know if anyone exceeds Steve's big deal in this, but you're if not, you're really close.

Edward Van Halen (06:38.153)
No, I'm definitely below. Definitely.

Steve-o (06:44.472)
My word. Come on, Joe. You're like a celebrity out here in Utah. For sure. And in Japan now, I've heard. So there you go.

Tony Benjamin (06:45.946)
So we're

Edward Van Halen (06:48.719)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (06:49.392)
Yeah. Y you kinda are that's right.

Edward Van Halen (06:54.315)
yeah, we need to talk about Japan today for sure.

Steve-o (06:56.814)
Absolutely.

Tony Benjamin (06:57.902)
Yeah. That's w we do for sure. Well well Joe, let's let's do this now that we've talked music and how cool Steve is and stuff like that. By the way, if if everybody that little segment right there with Steve just demonstrates why I do the introductions the way I do. Because no matter how what I say about Steve, it's true. I can just a lot of the times I just make stuff up out of nothing. And it's true. Steve has a story about it. So

It's just yeah. Well, I mean th yeah, there you go. So anyways

Steve-o (07:28.888)
I got way too many stories.

Steve-o (07:33.71)
And they're good. I mean, I I guess they're you know, to me they're good stories. I've l I lived them, right? But anyway, happy times.

Tony Benjamin (07:39.118)
That's right. That's right. Everything from the World Series to famous Alabama band members and yeah. That's right.

Steve-o (07:45.838)
Kinds of things. Did you know at the World Series? I was on Telemundo because they did an interview and they're like, dude, this white guy speaks Spanish. We gotta have him on Telemundo. And so I did like a brief like 30 second segment for Telemundo. I don't even know if it aired, but they recorded me. So there you go.

Edward Van Halen (07:51.107)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (08:02.576)
See, there you go.

Edward Van Halen (08:03.218)
No.

Tony Benjamin (08:07.508)
okay, so Joe, I'm trying to think. You and I have known each other a very long time. And I think the first time I remember talking to you is I called you for HR advice. And I don't know if that was were you once with employer's counsel or something like that? No. Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Edward Van Halen (08:14.035)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (08:25.617)
No, I think we both used employer employers council. So we got connected. But then the first time we met live was at a at a HR event in Salt Lake City, you know.

Steve-o (08:29.462)
Mm-hmm.

Tony Benjamin (08:36.056)
that's right. We were that's right. When we sat down we talked, that's the first time we talked for a bit was at disrupt HR, two point Yeah, mm-hmm, two point That was that was really good. or maybe it was one. I can't remember. It was one of the first two, and then I spoke at the next one. So but anyways, there you go. So okay, aside from your the glory of meeting me and all, tell me a little bit about yourself.

Edward Van Halen (08:41.513)
Yeah. Dis disrupt HR, yeah.

Steve-o (08:45.518)
Nice.

Edward Van Halen (08:54.173)
Yeah, nice.

Steve-o (09:03.054)
Yeah, how'd you get an HR? Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (09:03.586)
And how you got into HR and your background. Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (09:07.881)
I love each other. I love each other. But back in the day, this is so old I am. Back in the day, we were so many of our forms were handwritten forms because you'd interact with employees. And in school, in school, some of the other kids would tease me and they'd say, You write like a girl. And I I I ended up, I took that as a compliment. And and you write like

Steve-o (09:30.999)
Nice.

Tony Benjamin (09:33.424)
That means your handwriting's better, yeah.

Steve-o (09:34.136)
Ha ha ha.

Edward Van Halen (09:35.101)
Yeah, yeah, you like you write like my physician. I can't even I can't read it. So I clearly I could never be a physician because everybody could read their prescription and that's I think that's not allowed by the AMA or something. it's frowned upon, at least. And

Tony Benjamin (09:44.538)
Right.

Steve-o (09:46.87)
It's not. It's not. Yeah. Yeah. I think they even take a course on it. So there you go.

Tony Benjamin (09:50.799)
Right.

Edward Van Halen (09:53.722)
So I I filled out a couple documents that are that were part of and I worked at at UPS at the time. I filled out some documents as part of the process and posted for they're very big on promotion from within. And my handwriting tipped the scales and I beat out the other guy because I had better handwriting in the the the the the director of HR was like, We need you, we need documents that we can read. So that's how I got my got my start. But

Steve-o (10:19.045)
that's funny.

Edward Van Halen (10:20.477)
But learned I learned a lot in the UPS because UPS is tried and tested and and tested in the courts because a big company like that is is there's lawsuits coming from from every direction. But I you know following that I just loved HR and learning I've always been kind of an HR generalist and doing everything in HR and every direction and really the the the profession of HR

Tony Benjamin (10:20.794)
Wow.

Tony Benjamin (10:29.552)
Right.

Edward Van Halen (10:50.055)
gives us such great flexibility to and you've done it Tony you've moved from from locations we are akin to accounting you know everybody needs an accountant and it's the same with HR and that that creates I mean we could live wherever we want in the United States and make this and make this happen. So HR gave me that mobility and you know and never the same day twice. I really

I really love that about my job that there's a surprise is coming today. I don't know what it is, but surprises are coming. And I I have a lot of clients now. I I work my company is Boost HR and over a thousand clients. And I love it. When they get stuck, they call me. They get a hold of me and

Tony Benjamin (11:20.228)
Yeah.

Steve-o (11:20.928)
Ain't that the truth?

Edward Van Halen (11:42.61)
You know, they know that their employment law attorney is four hundred and fifty bucks an hour and they're like, let's call Joe first and get and I'm not an employment law attorney, so I have yet to be disbarred for saying something that was they they have not been able to disbar me. They they can't do it. But I I do give legal advice all the time. I'm like, no, no time, I wouldn't do that. So y yeah, it's the

Tony Benjamin (11:47.959)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (11:53.872)
Ha ha.

No, that's yeah. Right. Right, right.

Steve-o (11:58.392)
Nice.

Tony Benjamin (12:06.042)
Yeah. Well that's I'm not an attorney but I pr I play one every day at work, yeah.

Edward Van Halen (12:10.417)
I do play yeah, we yeah, yeah, we play when it works, Steve, that's for sure.

Steve-o (12:12.566)
Ain't that the you we play psychology, we play everything. Therapist. Yeah. You name it. We'd we play it.

Edward Van Halen (12:16.753)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (12:16.974)
Yeah. So so Joe exactly. Party planner and everything. Joe, how did you now how did you end up at GBS? 'Cause you you you wor worked for them for a long time, so yeah.

Edward Van Halen (12:21.459)
For sure.

Edward Van Halen (12:30.13)
Yeah.

Steve-o (12:30.318)
Yeah, I know there was a stint there for a while. We kinda skipped that. UPS to boost.

Edward Van Halen (12:33.553)
Yeah, so GBS, you know, I I had I had this job where where it was kind of a dark chapter where we had over 5,000 employees and we had a data breach. And they stole they had access to our systems for about three months and they they went in the back door and tested the back door and and they stole all of all of our data. And

Tony Benjamin (12:51.12)
Mm.

Steve-o (12:51.127)
Out.

Edward Van Halen (13:02.351)
It turned out as we had kind of this IT forensic group come in to say, How did this happen? And it was someone had hacked in and got the got the the credentials for my HRIS manager. So they had the keys to the kingdom. And then they would take weekends and they were downloading information as they got deeper in. And then they were they were selling this information on the dark web. It was to do

Because they could get, they could see live W-2, so they were waiting till January, populating the live W-2 data so they could hijack that and do they they would do fake tax returns before the people did their own tax returns and try to have that funded to a prepaid credit card. It was it wa it was a it was a dark time. And they b the CEO and the powers that be they they blamed.

Steve-o (13:38.316)
Wow.

Tony Benjamin (13:48.88)
Wow.

Edward Van Halen (13:57.928)
my HRIS manager and he was innocent. So we both took a walk together. So so so we stood up and left and y yeah, we yeah, we we walked it you know there was there was separation agreements and things like that and confidentiality but we yeah we walked together. I I you know who's right who's wrong and who do you stand by when when things get tough. But

Steve-o (14:06.124)
Wow. What a story.

Tony Benjamin (14:06.648)
Wow, s you stood with him.

Edward Van Halen (14:26.703)
GBS at the time was my broker. So I knew the internal people at at GBS. And you know, I'll drop a name here that Gor Gordon Brown was one of my lead brokers, and he just understands the the the components of of of benefits, especially if you're self- self-insured. He's like one of the masters at being self-insured and how that can really change your company. And

And they called me and and said, Hey, wha have you thought about this? W could you come work for us? So yeah.

Tony Benjamin (15:01.764)
So d did they put you immediately in the advisory role, in the in the HR answer in advisory role?

Steve-o (15:01.838)
That's cool.

Edward Van Halen (15:05.947)
Yes. Yeah. And then said, hey, build this up and and be that connective piece b between all of our clients. And that's the common thread in employee benefits is HR is involved. and and the decision makers are involved and and usually that's the CFO. It's like yeah, hey, you're a cost sender and you're spending all my money. Fix this.

Steve-o (15:20.078)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Tony Benjamin (15:29.262)
Right, yeah.

Steve-o (15:29.624)
So so let's talk about how that's kind of an oxymoron, right? I mean, CFO in charge of that, and and especially when oftentimes C CFOs only want to focus on just the monetary, like, hey, this is not cheap and they only focus on that. So so how did you find trying to bring the people aspect into those conversations? Was it well received? Like what what did that look like?

Edward Van Halen (15:42.889)
Right.

Edward Van Halen (15:54.364)
I focused on my b because when I've sent that larger company and and it was Swanson Communications headquartered in Salt Lake and my my direct report the the the person I reported to changed and I became where I reported to the CFO. So I learned a lot and I I'm about relationships. It's why I love you guys is you build that and I built I built that relationship with the CFO.

Steve-o (16:01.933)
Mm-hmm.

Tony Benjamin (16:19.024)
Right, right.

Edward Van Halen (16:24.079)
and hopefully illuminated some of his thoughts on why the people matter and and what we're building here and how we're building it through people. So s so I I was able to carry that philosophy with me. And it's hard sometimes in HR to get a seat at the table where you are talking to the COO, CFO, CEO, and and have them listening or even get invited. Getting invited for the first time is is difficult.

Steve-o (16:33.998)
That's awesome.

Tony Benjamin (16:44.634)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (16:52.366)
Yeah, yeah. And there's and there's a whole lot of people out there who think themselves, to still to this day, as hard nosed, basic, straightforward business people who just don't get up. They just don't. And and it just I don't know. It's like

Steve-o (17:08.482)
Yeah, and you know, it's really hard when I I was on in fact I had a conversation today with somebody out of Florida and you know, sometimes the challenges that people have is the CFO just simply makes the decision. And so in this scenario, and I've I've heard this dozens of times in in the HCM space, the CFO just simply decided, well, we're gonna switch to this system because it's all in one and it connects with my accounting software.

And they absolutely did not involve HR in those decisions. And so all of a sudden, HR is is basically inheriting this new system. They have to implement it and try to onboard and get everybody to adopt it. And it doesn't even do half of what they had before. And so it's almost like they go backwards. I I I think if you're a CFO or or in that type of role, making those types of decisions at the C suite level, if you're not involving the HR team in that process, you are

You are missing a huge component of what it actually means to implement software platforms within your organization, period.

Tony Benjamin (18:07.504)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (18:08.071)
Right. And it doesn't have to be to your point, it doesn't have to be somebody under your roof or under your umbrella. That's a time you know, bring in a consultant and and and don't don't destroy the morale of your HR team. And maybe that maybe your lead HR person has been promoted from within and they don't have the skills to get across that bridge. But you know, spend a spend two thousand dollars and bring in a consultant to.

Steve-o (18:15.606)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Exactly.

Steve-o (18:24.055)
Mm-hmm.

Steve-o (18:34.944)
Absolutely. Yeah. And that and that's exactly what this company was considering as a consultant. And so the first phone call went really well because I was like, look, I've been in this space for 20 years. I know exactly how this works. And what you need is you need somebody on your team that can kind of help talk the language of the CFO because she couldn't, right? It it just wasn't in her wheelhouse to do so. And and that's just how it happens sometimes. Like you're right, they they don't have the skill sets. And

Edward Van Halen (18:35.379)
Do it right do it right the first time is so easy to do these days.

Steve-o (19:03.436)
The C suite recognizes that, which is why they don't involve them, but you're absolutely right. If if you're not going to involve your own HR team, then absolutely get a consultant in there so that you can have the right types of conversations for the people, in essence. So yeah.

Tony Benjamin (19:15.096)
Right, right. Well, okay

Edward Van Halen (19:16.593)
And and building up an HR system is like building a house. And if you put it in the wrong spot on the lot or the wrong neighborhood or the wrong, I mean you you are just asking for trouble.

Steve-o (19:20.269)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (19:20.558)
Yes.

Steve-o (19:26.402)
Well, and think about it. What about the outlets? Like where you put the outlets and all that stuff. I mean, there's so many little nuances there. That's that's a really good analogy, Joe. I like that.

Tony Benjamin (19:35.118)
Yeah, it is a good analogy. Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna do

Edward Van Halen (19:37.02)
And don't forget to put an outlet in your bathroom. Why? Why would you put in why would you do it? Why would you do it? For your bidet. I went to Japan and there's bidets everywhere. They're in the they're they're in the airport, in the restaurants, in the shopping malls, and in in my hotel. And and I'm I wake up late at night and I'm disoriented. I don't know where I'm going. And I open the bathroom door and the lid rises up and this soft blue light illuminates and it's like.

Steve-o (19:40.186)
Ha ha.

Steve-o (19:46.222)
Ha ha ha.

Edward Van Halen (20:05.287)
You Joe, I'm I missed you. Come on, come come let's talk. And you sit down and it's a heated seat. my god

Steve-o (20:08.558)
Wow.

Steve-o (20:12.866)
gonna be honest, my bathroom has never said that to me, but that's intriguing.

Edward Van Halen (20:15.909)
Yeah, yeah, you're you are living in the dark ages, my friend. I don't know how you do it, you know. It's b bidets all the way.

Tony Benjamin (20:22.064)
It's a it's a Lumable. It's a Luma bowl. Did you ever have that product? A Lumable? It was a little device you hooked on your toilet and when you came in and and you lift up the lid it would light up the inside of the toilet. I knew the guy who invented that. It was awesome. So that's right.

Edward Van Halen (20:28.425)
I remember it.

Edward Van Halen (20:35.269)
It's it's beautiful. It's beautiful.

Steve-o (20:38.11)
Wow. The only thing I've ever done is poopouri. So there you go. That's about the extent of my experience there.

Edward Van Halen (20:43.163)
Tony Benjamin (20:43.544)
Ha ha All right, before this deteriorates anymore, I'm gonna do a read for us. Okay. Yeah, you bet. Looking for a team building experience your employees will actually talk about? Dino Outfitters Invernal, Utah offers guided trips on the epic new Ashley Gorge Via Ferrata. Help your team build trust, confidence, and real connection, all while hanging out on the side of a cliff.

Edward Van Halen (20:51.603)
Thanks for saving us, Tony.

Steve-o (20:53.261)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (21:12.844)
Reach out to build a custom experience at Utah Viaferrada dot com. Shout out to Amber and her team at Dino Outfitters for being a sponsor today. That's a cool deal. So yeah.

Edward Van Halen (21:25.277)
That is cool. And getting people together outside of work and being, you know, hanging off a cliff together, it just bonds people. It bonds them.

Steve-o (21:26.094)
You know what?

Steve-o (21:30.936)
I know.

Tony Benjamin (21:32.26)
That's right. That's right. That's right.

Steve-o (21:33.548)
You you know, it's funny you say that Tony, last night my wife and I were at the Provo airport to welcome back the people from the honor flight. Are you guys familiar with the honor flight? What that is? So we were welcoming all the these veterans from the honor flight. And one of the main people in the front there, they brought a bunch of princesses, like you know, Miss Utah and all that, and one of them was Miss Dinosaur Land. I didn't even know that was a thing. So Miss Dinosaur Land was there.

Edward Van Halen (21:42.205)
Yes.

Tony Benjamin (21:57.655)
Wow. Wow. There you go. I've not met Miss Dinosaur Land. I end up meeting I end up meeting Miss Ewina County all the time. Somehow I always find a way to meet her.

Steve-o (22:08.972)
My daughter started going off and making fun of stuff. She's we should have like a Miss I fifteen and a Miss S R ninety two and a a Miss, you know, corridor and you know, I mean they so funny. That's Katie. That's not me. That's Katie making it all up. She's my she's my eighteen year old and she just she just thinks it's hilarious that you know, the way they celebrate and wear the sashes and they were very well dressed. Like, you know, they had the high heels and the pretty dresses and things like that. But

Tony Benjamin (22:14.064)
man. That's you kill me. That's that's too funny. That's

Edward Van Halen (22:24.893)
Mm-hmm.

Tony Benjamin (22:35.31)
Yeah, yeah.

Steve-o (22:38.21)
Yeah, Miss Dinosaur Land kinda threw her off there for a bit.

Edward Van Halen (22:41.257)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (22:41.848)
We used to do when I was at Superior every year we would do a veterans and first responder event, right? We're we'd have them all come and and miss UNA County, the 'cause they have it three different levels for different ages. They heard about it and they decided that they wanted to be there. And they would show up early and help us set this up. So hundreds of chairs and tables and everything like that and the stage for the band and

And the food and they'd come and help us set up all that. And they would do it in high heels in those dresses with a crown on and the sash. And I was like, How can you even like carry chairs around in those heels? But they did it. They did it. So I gained a new respect.

Steve-o (23:12.002)
Yeah. They're very service oriented. Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (23:16.553)
Love it.

Steve-o (23:20.782)
Yeah. Yeah, their their director was Jenny Lynn Meek and she she was the director for my daughter's color guard when my daughter was in high school. So we got to see her. We hadn't seen her in years and gave her a hug and stuff. But yeah, they they do a lot of good service projects. So

Tony Benjamin (23:32.497)
That's cool. That's cool. All right. Now I but I want to break from this. We went from toilets to the read to Miss You in a County. So there you go. By the way, if you're if you've never listened to the podcast before, hi, welcome to the HR Life. It doesn't stop at the office. so Joe, I want to ask you the question we ask everybody. What is the state of HR right now? Like, what is the state of our profession right now?

Steve-o (23:39.55)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (23:43.561)
Edward Van Halen (24:04.049)
Okay, I'll lead off with a quote on that from one of the world's most brilliant philosophers, Neil Pert. And his his quote here is he knows he knows changes aren't permanent, but change is. And you've gotta you've gotta embrace that. That changes aren't permanent and change is, and you're not you're not gonna leave that change, and which is why I love HR and love that. And and that's I think the the the

space we're in and it's compressed even. The first quarter of this year, things were booming and everything was heated up and everyone was okay, we're settled in. We've had a new president for one year and we were worried about tariffs last year and we were holding back. We ha we were good financially, but we weren't doing anything. First quarter of this year, boom, out of the gate. and things were just going crazy. And then we enter into a war with a with Iran and

It's it feels like a roller coaster. So I think embracing that change and you know, I I I have I I have clients throughout the West and mostly throughout the West and some in the in the east, but I think a lot about the the Wasatch Front because I live on the Wasatch Front and Utah in general is still growing in population. Many states are not, and we're growing and job growth is still there. It's not

Steve-o (25:04.206)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (25:04.485)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (25:29.713)
It's not huge job growth. I think the tech side has has slowed down. But you know, with tech and healthcare and financial services and insurance services, that that growth continues. And I live in Saratoga Springs and I have seen it. I've been here for a long time. And our population in Saratoga Springs in 1999 was 162 people who lived kind of down by the lake and some farmers scattered about.

And now we're over sixty three thousand. And that's let you know, that's that twenty seven years. you work with the city of Saratoga?

Steve-o (26:00.972)
Yeah. Sit. Yeah. Saratoga is one of my clients that I solved and they yeah, they've grown. Yeah, they they have grown exponentially. So it it is it just in fact, even just the last three years alone, I think they've more than doubled. So yeah, it's amazing the growth out there.

Tony Benjamin (26:01.476)
Yeah, yep.

Edward Van Halen (26:12.498)
Yeah, yeah.

Tony Benjamin (26:14.106)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (26:18.183)
Yeah. Which

Tony Benjamin (26:21.464)
No, but your to your to your point. So your point is that the HR world is just in constant state of flux right now. And we're trying right? I mean that's what you're that's where you're headed to, right?

Steve-o (26:28.675)
Mm-hmm.

Edward Van Halen (26:31.053)
Y yeah, yeah, but and I work with a lot of young HR peop people and part of my part of my communication to them is no, you're you're in the right place. You're in the right place. embrace that change, be a part of this impactful thing. I was I was looking at a study this week about, you know, who are the happiest people at at retirement age.

Who gets to the end of the of the race and and they are the happiest? And it and they kind of boiled it down to four segments. teachers, and then doctors and nurses were one segment, and then electricians and carpenters, which is interesting because they build this these lasting things. And then they they they talk about consultants that in whatever sector that are helping people. And I thought I I looked at all those and I thought.

Yeah, check, check, check, check. My job is doing all four of those those things. I'm I'm teaching, I'm providing benefits in healthcare and looking and worried about people's the cost of healthcare. I'm building, I'm building teams mostly and relationships, and I'm helping other people every day. So at at the end of the road, this this might be the most satisfying way to go.

Steve-o (27:54.68)
That's interesting. That that what a interesting stat. But it makes sense, right? It really does. But when you're actually helping people, I I think that's what I loved about what I did for a long time with AppKint Pro. We just felt like every call I would get off of, I'm like, Man, I'm helping them. They're getting out of this rut that they're in. And so I there's value there when you're helping your clients, you're just you're happy. You are. You're absolutely happy. That's awesome.

Edward Van Halen (27:59.122)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (28:15.39)
Yeah no.

Yeah. Well an applicant pro a great example, growing it with you and Ryan Kohler, gr growing it from zero to and and even when you guys hit high employee numbers, I mean, didn't you know the names of all your people, even if they were remote? Yeah.

Steve-o (28:28.45)
Mm-hmm.

absolutely. Yeah. Not only do we know them all, we knew things about their families and th you know, just all of the right. I mean and I and I I'm I'm glad you brought that up, Joe, because I think that's really important in just about any organization. I I get that the growth is huge and and you get to a point where you can't feasibly know everybody, but yeah. So it's so huge.

Edward Van Halen (28:36.843)
Yes. Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (28:53.683)
Right, right. G you know, Gore and they build they've got buildings up there at Westminster College on campus, and they they they're the the Gore, the founders of Gore are from the Wasatch Front. But they they have it built in when they have any subset of Gore that that reaches 100 employees or more, they break it off and create a different subset and put them in a different building. So when you go to work at gore.

Steve-o (29:20.141)
Wow.

Edward Van Halen (29:21.659)
You you work with the people in your building and or it's a remote group and they top it off between eighty and a hundred so everybody knows everybody's name and their families and what's going on it because we can all do that. We can process eight eighty people and remember every name. And and we all, you know, you get to a hundred and a hundred and ten and then you see, you know, HR just hired another eight people and we kind of throw in the towel. We're not gonna remember a hundred and ten plus eight more people. So I'm gonna I'm

Steve-o (29:37.122)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (29:50.49)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (29:51.068)
I'm gonna kinda withdraw and I'll have my own little group of of people. But it's interesting they looked at that architecture and how how they can respond. Yeah, pretty cool. Yeah.

Steve-o (29:58.542)
That is interesting. What a what a concept, right? Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (30:02.03)
Yeah, that's no I that's an interesting way to tackle that. for a long time, every once in a while at company events, whenever we would have company events, I would tell any everybody you're not allowed to sit at a table that is a majority of your department. Like you have you you can have a couple of you there to feel safe, but I want a majority of the people not to be from your department. And well, you know, 'cause you you put it out there.

Steve-o (30:22.606)
To feel safe.

Edward Van Halen (30:24.373)
He

Steve-o (30:25.718)
I love how we describe that as feeling safe. Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (30:28.484)
Well, you know, you you you you go and you don't know what to say if you don't know people, but I love the rule. No, you cannot sit at a table where the majority of those people are in your department. So find somewhere else. And I would go around and like move people and it it it didn't make me popular at first, but it really united the company. And to your point, you start those sorts of things when the company or the organization hits a hundred people. And you start breaking it up and you're gonna do it and otherwise, what's the use of an event? Like

Edward Van Halen (30:39.025)
It Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (30:51.55)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (30:57.656)
You know, at Superior we had monthly birthday celebrations, right? We'd shout out everybody's birthday and we'd do lunch. And the company's grown and all that. But why am I having that now? It's really nice to say happy birthday. Don't get me wrong. That's swell. But really the point was to get everybody in a room and have announcements and communicate, right? That's our our meeting to communicate, but it also breaks down barriers between people. And I would literally know you go sit over there with those guys, you go sit with them. I I need to create a bridge here and

Edward Van Halen (31:21.703)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (31:26.552)
That's how I'd do it. But I love that idea. Separating it out at a at a

Steve-o (31:29.942)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (31:30.789)
I love your idea too, to grab any meeting and say, Hey, everybody's sitting by their friends, mix it up, find a stranger, sit by a stranger, introduce yourself. It takes ninety seconds and you rearrange the whole room. Good idea.

Steve-o (31:35.756)
Yeah. Go mix it up.

Steve-o (31:42.53)
Yeah. You know, and it's interesting, one of the stats is that once you hit about a hundred employees, you need an HR professional per hundred employees or so, right? And so that there's there's something to that, right? Yeah. Because if if that's the number, the magic number, if you will, and and numerous statistics kind of support that, it's just kind of an interesting concept in that sense. So

Tony Benjamin (31:43.982)
Yeah,

Edward Van Halen (31:51.271)
Yeah. yeah, that's that's that's real.

Tony Benjamin (32:07.108)
No, that's a that's a that's a very good point. Okay, so sorry, we got derailed from the topic we were talking about. But okay, I wanna I wanna move to this. I know what I was gonna say, and this moves us on to the next topic. So, Joe, one of the things I find interesting every time I go to one of your things, I'd say probably eighty percent of your presentations, you have people either talk to or stand up and talk to the person next to them, right? Somebody they don't know.

And I always find this interesting how many HR people do it. Like if I were to go to with CFOs or accounting people, not to rip on you CFOs and accounting people, although I will, but they don't do that sort of stuff, right? They they're they're it's not in their personality deal, or if they do, they grumble a whole lot more. HR people though are totally willing to do that. Just throw it out there and do it. I love that about our profession. Like it's built into our DNA DNA that we do that.

Edward Van Halen (33:04.487)
Yeah, it's it's fun. And you know, I I try to expand that even even further and and encourage people to do that outside of work as well. to there there's fascination in strangers. You know it you know every everyone we meet knows something we don't know. It's it's just i and we can right

Tony Benjamin (33:28.044)
Even if it's useless, they know something we don't know. That's right. That's right. That's right. you know, just the cynical side of Tony Tony coming out there. So, but no, I know you do a lot of presentations and you also do some training classes and stuff like that. And and I find all that incredible. How did how did you start presenting? 'cause obviously I think you did some pre you maybe did it start with GBS or were you doing it before then or what?

Steve-o (33:33.356)
Wow. Tell me how you really feel, Tony.

Edward Van Halen (33:34.121)
that's good. That is good.

Edward Van Halen (33:57.616)
No, I was since I started in HR, presenting has been part of what I've always done. So, and I wasn't uncomfortable. When when I was young, my mother talks about times where I would family members would come over, aunts and uncles, and I would go hide under the bed. So I came from this extremely shy origins, but developed and it was through my music that I gained a love of.

And and and maybe refine some skills of being up and in front of people and talking to them and bringing people together and uniting them first in music and and now in in in HR HR processes and team building and and learning and so I I I think it there should be a presentation. If you're gonna do a presentation, it should be learning. The the most common presentations I see and that every company does is harassment training. Well

Steve-o (34:33.654)
Interesting.

Edward Van Halen (34:57.125)
I stopped calling it harassment training a long time ago because I'm not yeah and quite honestly, I've come out of some I I've come out of some of those trainings thinking I think I I'm pretty clear about the definition of sexual harassment and I think I was just harassed. but yeah, for me it's respect in the workplace. We talk about respect in the workplace, teamwork, and communication. And I'm gonna check all the boxes of what you can't do at work, but

Tony Benjamin (34:58.128)
Yes. You're not training them how to harass.

Steve-o (35:05.048)
Exactly.

Tony Benjamin (35:13.092)
Yeah. Yes.

Edward Van Halen (35:25.861)
Yeah, so so the the the training and I've I've found and I've learned myself that people people don't remember what you say. They remember how you make them feel, or they remember a story with a with a good hook to it. It's like a song with a good hook. You don't forget that. That's that becomes i i embedded. So so yeah, for for people coming up in HR, look for or volunteer for opportunities to present internally.

Tony Benjamin (35:48.144)
No

Edward Van Halen (35:54.962)
And get get in front of get in front of people or present for free for Sherm and put yourself out there and and have it be uncomfortable. Yeah.

Steve-o (36:01.846)
Love that. Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (36:04.164)
You know, that's I love the analogy to the hook in a song. So matter of fact, I was on YouTube today and I do you remember that song Somebody's Watching Me from the 80s? I always feel like somebody's watching me. So the hook in it is after he says me, and as that tone f flits out, there's a vocal, there's a high vocal in there, and that's the hook, right?

Edward Van Halen (36:15.688)
yeah. Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (36:32.64)
that me, and it kind of stretched that's the hook that gets you singing. And and the rest of the song, if you listen, the vocals, they're pretty low. Well, guess who I found out that vocal was? That high note vocal. That's Michael Jackson. And and so the the guy who the guy who wrote that song, apparently he couldn't his dad was an executive at Motown and he couldn't get his dad to publish his own song. And so he said, Okay, well, so he snuck it in.

Steve-o (36:49.996)
Mm he

Tony Benjamin (37:02.51)
And then Michael Jackson heard about it and said, okay, I'll do backup vocals for you and I'll do the hook. And everybody will recognize the voice, but not know it's me, and it will be a hit. And that's exactly what happened. Meaning that's why the song stuck in their head. And I I love that analogy to what you just said. There's gotta be a hook in every presentation that sticks in their head when nothing else does. Yeah, exactly.

Edward Van Halen (37:17.947)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (37:25.203)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, good. Good good thoughts. Good thoughts.

Steve-o (37:29.88)
No, that's a great analogy. That's I didn't even know that about that song. And I I mean I love music. I think music I mean, I don't know who doesn't love music. I mean, granted, there are probably some sticklers out there probably listening to this right now, like, I hate music. I'll never get involved with music. But but the reality is music, I don't know, it brings us together. I you know, my dad died of dementia. And I'll tell you, there were some songs that you would play

Edward Van Halen (37:43.193)
Yeah.

Steve-o (37:53.846)
And he knew them word for word. He had forgotten who I was. He forgot anything and everything about what was even out there. But you played some of those songs to him and he could sing them and belt them out word for word. And and they just made him light up. And and and that there's yeah, yeah. And there are there are numerous studies that have shown that music, especially for these like dementia and Alzheimer's patients, still has a tremendous amount of impact.

Edward Van Halen (37:58.661)
Edward Van Halen (38:07.719)
That's fascinating.

Steve-o (38:20.332)
And they still remember them. I think that's significant. There's a lot to be said there. So

Edward Van Halen (38:24.861)
And maybe tying in both sides of the brain too. You've got the you've got the lyrical side, the music side, the artistic. Yeah, it's that's pretty, pretty good. Well, and Michael Jackson, I think Michael Jackson got that idea from from Edward Van Halen. Because because they're in the studio and they're recording Thriller and and and he's just still up and coming and and Thriller hasn't hit yet and changed the world. And Quincy Jones, who may be the best producer on the planet, was like.

Steve-o (38:27.299)
Mm-hmm.

Steve-o (38:30.998)
Yeah. Well now we know. So

Tony Benjamin (38:32.494)
No, that that's that's good. So

Steve-o (38:38.648)
Ha ha.

Edward Van Halen (38:53.681)
Hey, I'm stuck. And why was he stuck? Because he was out of his lane, completely out of his lane, because Beat It is a heavy metal song. And Quincy's like, this is not Motown. And he's like, Let's call Eddie. And Mike Michael Jackson's like, What? You're gonna call yeah. It was before c collaborations, really, back the back in the eighties. And and then he called Eddie. Eddie vac hung up on him twice. He thought it was a crank call. He thought somebody was trying to yeah.

Steve-o (38:58.19)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (39:05.786)
Right.

Steve-o (39:13.123)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (39:19.216)
That's my favorite part of that. Yeah.

Steve-o (39:20.076)
That's hilarious.

Edward Van Halen (39:22.045)
So the third time it's like, no, no, I'm Quincy Jones. And and then he he got in got into his Ferrari, grabbed his grabbed he was only like fift fifteen minutes away, and he went down to Santa Monica Boulevard and went into Westlake Studios and they kept and recorded the first take. And he changed the song. He talked to the sound engineers and he's like, I can't be playing a guitar solo off just over these repeated chords.

He's like, take the chords out of the bridge and let me let me solo over the top of those. And it's it's thirty two seconds. And a lot of people still to this day don't know that that's Eddie Van Halen playing for thirty two seconds on the first take for I don't know, they probably gave him a twelve pack of beer or something. He got no money out of it. And

Tony Benjamin (40:04.528)
Yeah, he got no money. It was even it was even uncredited on the album, which is really cool.

Edward Van Halen (40:08.739)
Yeah, well he to he that was Eddie's plan because he didn't want the guys in the band to find out. So like don't don't put my name on there. So so he's he's in a record store in LA and this is after Thriller comes out and it hits the world and two teenage boys are in that record store and the one teen and Eddie's there with his hat and incognito and the kid behind him said that beat it is playing on the loudspeakers. The kid behind him says, Listen to this guitar player. He thinks he's Eddie Van Halen.

Tony Benjamin (40:12.505)
Yeah.

Steve-o (40:15.885)
that's funny. Wow.

Tony Benjamin (40:17.861)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (40:38.139)
And and Eddie turns it Eddie turns around and he taps him on the shoulder and says, Hey, I just wanted you to know that I sat in and recorded this this solo and I wanted you to know that. And my name's Edward Van Halen, it's nice to meet you. Can you imagine?

Tony Benjamin (40:54.512)
Man, man, there that's it Joe, this is this is something else that I I love about you. You have so many music stories and and stuff like that that I think is just it's over the top incredible. I love it. Every time I hear some unique story like that one I just related about that song, I think of you and I'm like, this 'cause is gonna go in Joe's collection right here because you got some cool stories about stuff like that.

Steve-o (41:00.462)
Great story.

Edward Van Halen (41:18.897)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (41:21.86)
I really like okay, so I want to come back to this because I derailed this. That the presentation thing. So you're talking like how to build your skills and stuff like that to get there. So so okay, so you start presenting internally, you get comfortable with it, you have to be able to to tell stories. That's what you were kind of talking to. Something that sticks in their head, a hook. How else do they what trends are in this right now? Like where does this go for people?

Edward Van Halen (41:46.952)
Yeah. Well, you know, following the pandemic, the trend was, okay, everything's going. You've got to have those skills and be able to do it over over a podcast or over a a Zoom call or a Teams meeting. You've got to be able to try to master all those. But I am seeing a resurgence of let's get somebody in here live, and that does two things. It gets

It gets everybody together and it gets these remote employees who are within distance to come back to the office for this day. We're gonna have good food and we're gonna have a live presentation. And I did one last week in Lehigh at a at a big company in Lehigh. And it was very impactful. And those people will remember that be because now a live training is not the norm anymore. And a live training can be very impactful and and

Tony Benjamin (42:35.855)
Right.

Edward Van Halen (42:40.899)
maybe a little more nerve-wracking for the person presenting, but it's it's a connection there where you can you can really you you Yeah.

Steve-o (42:50.858)
Love the live trainings. I absolutely love the live trainings. And I think the reason I love it so much, and I I tell people this all the time, there you know, when you talk about connection, Joe, did you know that there is actual when you're speaking with people in person, you're literally throwing endorphins all over them? And I'm not I'm not saying you know the the sexual kinds or anything like that. Where it's just that I I but physically

Tony Benjamin (43:11.384)
You always say that of that's what you mean. That's what you mean that.

Steve-o (43:14.956)
You're you're we're literally like spreading ourselves all over the place at at people as we speak. And and that there is actual scientific evidence that there's an an actual connection there, that it is a real thing. And when you have that connection, it's just so much more powerful than over the phone or you know, I mean, we know each other well enough. Like right now, we're not necessarily together in person, but we know each other well enough. It's easy to play off one another and and just kind of have this great conversation.

But if we hadn't really had those types of interactions before, sometimes it it it it's harder, right? to really connect. So I love I love the connection piece. I think it's so important.

Edward Van Halen (43:50.547)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (43:56.456)
And and for some companies, they haven't done a live meeting like that for six months. So I boy, I think it should happen at a minimum twice a year, unless you're scattered so far across the country and every employee is remote that you can't do it. But even some of those companies will say, okay, we're still gonna carve out the budget. So once a year, we're all gonna fly into San Diego and have a conference there and make it happen. It's the the money is well spent.

Steve-o (44:08.066)
Yeah, that it's virtually impossible. Yeah.

Steve-o (44:16.216)
Mm-hmm.

Steve-o (44:25.076)
I agree. I agree. Yep.

Tony Benjamin (44:25.292)
I agree. Yeah, yeah. No, that's that's so Joe, if somebody wants to get into public speaking and that related to HR, what are some ways that you might recommend?

Edward Van Halen (44:37.385)
Good question. so many people don't like you know, it's public speaking is a big fear for a lot of people. So some people will not get past that that barrier. So you have you have options to br to bring in outside voice. I think outside voices are the the most powerful thing. I work with HR people all the time. And bringing in an outside voice and and watching watching someone else.

Tony Benjamin (44:44.484)
Right, yeah.

Steve-o (44:44.814)
Mm-hmm.

Edward Van Halen (45:07.175)
You know, what are they doing? How can you break that down? And there's so many tutorials and things on YouTube that can help you become better. But if that's just not where you're ever going to be, you're never going to be the person in front of the group. Bring in that outside voice. And there there's something that just triggers from that outside voice that.

You can tell your employees, and you've got a hundred employees, and you've told this this same story to them or this message that they need to learn three years in a row, and you bring out the out you bring in the outside voice on year four, and all of a sudden everybody in the room is like, aha, moment. And it's you're telling the same, you're teaching them the same. Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (45:45.369)
Yeah.

Steve-o (45:46.318)
Yeah, it's the same thing you've been saying. You know, that's funny. When I was a recruiter with True North Academy way back in the day, I used to have a buddy of mine that was in HR as well. And and we would actually trade each other. So he would come to my company. We actually developed a presentation together. It was about it was about harassment, which now I I'm I hate the fact that we called it harassment back then, but but that's what it was about and and some company policies. We designed the program together, and then I would go to his company and present, and he would come to my company and present.

Edward Van Halen (45:59.634)
I love it

Edward Van Halen (46:07.699)
Yeah.

Steve-o (46:15.98)
And when we traded off like that, that this is probably one of my first experiences speaking in front of a group of people in a work setting. But those trainings were so effective because instead of hearing it from me all the time, they got to hear it from somebody else. And then they would come to me with the questions because they realized that what he said, I think Steve's told me that before. So maybe I should go ask Steve about that. And

Edward Van Halen (46:24.019)
Yeah.

Steve-o (46:39.574)
It just became so much more effective and powerful. And I kind of equated it to like a second witness type thing. Like now you're hearing it from somebody who's not me. So for whatever reason, there's like more credibility or more believability for the people. And so when I traded like that, we we did that for about almost a year and a half where we would trade presentations like that, but we designed them together. And I loved it because when we we when you design together, not only do you know your stuff really well.

Edward Van Halen (46:43.4)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (46:54.089)
Yeah.

Steve-o (47:07.886)
But now I go into their organization, he comes over to mine, we we know each other's organizations fairly well because we've had this communication and man the message just carries so much more powerfully. It it was it was probably one of my favorite ways to train ever. So yeah.

Edward Van Halen (47:14.985)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (47:23.369)
It's a great thought because you have that partnership and then you have someone live there that's up there and speaking and and playing off each other. and better for the company, better for building your skills. That's a it's it's easy. You we all kind of know that person out there that that we'd say, yeah, I'd like to tag team a training with that person. Yeah, it's a great idea. Yeah.

Steve-o (47:28.355)
Mm-hmm.

Steve-o (47:44.578)
Yeah. No, it was awesome. I I loved it. That that was that was literally my first experience in a work setting where I was training in front of hundreds of people. Cause we had about three hundred employees. They he I think he had about three hundred and fifty. So we were very similar in size, completely different industries, but it didn't matter because the subject was the same. It was something that we had to train on and, you know, certify and all that stuff. And so it it just worked out beautifully.

Edward Van Halen (47:53.939)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (47:57.426)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (48:04.689)
Right, right.

Steve-o (48:08.82)
And yeah, highly I highly recommend that. And if anybody wants to just trade with me and come in and have me come in, I I love that kind of stuff. And it sounds like same for you, right? Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (48:17.137)
I mean, count me in. I don't want to train with Tony, but I do w wanna train with you.

Tony Benjamin (48:21.392)
that sounds about right. Yeah, I I get that quite a bit. So yeah, no no worries. Yeah. No, I I do I what one of my favorite trainings I ever attended was this lady, is when I was at control force, she came and she did an an anti harassment training for us.

Steve-o (48:28.92)
He kissed that question.

Edward Van Halen (48:30.961)
Ha.

Steve-o (48:34.006)
Wow.

Tony Benjamin (48:44.118)
And she literally sat on one of the executives' lap and rubbed her hands through his hair and made him feel uncomfortable and everything. And it was awesome. Like, yeah, i exactly. It's it's stuck in my head. That was the hook, right? But the the funny part about that was is that when I went out of there, all I got out of it was, this is a touchy feely thing. Like I need to be more cautious about women's emotions, right? Not understanding more about and and maybe that's a good message.

Steve-o (48:50.23)
Wow. When you got the visual, that's remembrance you remember that.

Tony Benjamin (49:12.9)
But the point just being is that's what I got out of it. I didn't get anti harassment out of it. I got maybe sensitized a little bit, but that was it. And that's that's why when I do those things, I'm I'm much I would much rather joke as I go along and have jokes and laugh. Even when they fall flat, I think it's funny. but I'd rather joke and go along and have a technical presentation than have a light presentation and act more serious, right?

Edward Van Halen (49:31.401)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (49:42.013)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (49:43.14)
'Cause I I think you lose people. But that that

Steve-o (49:45.132)
There's nothing better than Tony laughing at his own jokes. I mean, it's just it really just brings in some flavor there, you know?

Tony Benjamin (49:49.024)
Ha.

Tony Benjamin (49:52.709)
Yeah. Well y my my favorite is when I make a joke and no one laughs. And then I just pause my presentation. I say, It's okay if you laugh at that. It's okay, I promise. And then I get a few chuckles, right? There you go. I'm making fun of myself. So it it works out good for me.

Edward Van Halen (50:09.65)
Tony has a such a good relationship with his writers, you know, that it's it's really good. Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (50:12.784)
That's it. Yeah, yeah. My writers, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah.

Steve-o (50:13.304)
Yeah. Yeah. It's all about delivery though. You gotta you gotta get the delivery down. It's I it's like a good dad joke. You can't if you deliver a dad joke, it'll always fall flat if you don't know how to really truly deliver it. So

Edward Van Halen (50:25.207)
yeah, you can't yeah.

Edward Van Halen (50:30.504)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (50:30.52)
Yeah, the best ja dad jokes you look at people and you just wait for them to laugh. Like, Okay, it's sinking in, right, right. there it is. And then you hear, Those are the best jokes.

Steve-o (50:37.774)
It takes a second.

Edward Van Halen (50:40.835)
Steve-o (50:42.582)
My favorite is when they like get it like a minute and a half later. Like that that's my favorite. Because you you say it and then the c conversation just kind of carries on and all of a sudden a minute and a half later they're like hitting you on the shoulder and like, my gosh. And it's a g ding. Anyway, so fun.

Tony Benjamin (50:45.912)
Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Edward Van Halen (50:51.633)
Mm.

Edward Van Halen (50:59.305)
That's hilarious.

Tony Benjamin (51:01.434)
That's good. Okay, so j let's do this. Let's do this. Let's do our second read. And then I got a couple more questions for for for Joe. Running a business is hard. HR shouldn't be. Megastar. HR is here to save you from bad HR. With expert support in everything from hiring to handbooks, compliance to culture, need payroll help or recruiting power, we do that too. Fractionally and flexibly, no overhead.

Just results, visit megastarhr dot com and let's grow your business together. Shout out to Becca. We're grateful that Becca renewed her sponsorship. Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (51:37.257)
Becca is the greatest. Becca's the greatest. You know?

Steve-o (51:40.43)
She really is. Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (51:42.117)
Yeah, she's she's wonderful. okay, so Joe, you you just mentioned a few minutes ago. You do you do HR consulting and all that all around the West. You've got clients all all over. What is unique about Utah? Like what is different here in HR?

Edward Van Halen (52:02.109)
I think I think there's I think this happens in a lot of places, but I think even more so in Utah that promotion from within and and trying to find the HR person under under your own own roof. I think there's a lot of HR talent out there and a lot of people out there. Fortunately the population is growing, job market is growing, but I would, you know, with that being the case.

I I guess my adv my advice if you're kind of breaking into HR or you're you've been in HR for a little while to maybe I I like being a generalist. I'm still a generalist and look at myself that way, but there's some really solid paths to success and and and strong pay through if you're seeking to be like an HR business partner. I I think of four areas. Like HR business partner is strong.

Compensation managers. I guess the thought is if I'm gonna trust you with knowing the compensation in my entire business, I gotta pay you a lot of money. and directors, you know, if you can reach that director level, and certainly a VP of HR. So those four areas are the areas that you can still afford a home on the on the Wasatch front, you know. but but I see and and that that's pr that I think that's a problem for

Tony Benjamin (53:06.684)
Right.

Steve-o (53:10.606)
Yeah.

Steve-o (53:20.78)
Ain't that the truth?

Edward Van Halen (53:25.811)
For our profession and for our loc local area and I see so how are the young people combating that? I s I'm seeing maybe higher a higher preponderance of of two incomes that they're tackling it through two incomes. so b both both yeah, yeah, it's

Steve-o (53:44.354)
Yeah. Even older people are doing the two income thing. I mean, th there's no question that this area has just blown up in regard to pricing and inflation and all the things. I don't know, I feel like California pricing has arrived and it it's arrived a while ago and it's just kind of hit pretty hard. So

Edward Van Halen (53:54.899)
Yeah. Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (54:06.233)
Yeah, and the and the people who owned a house prior to the boom, you know, the housing values grew so much faster than wages that those people are are in a good good spot and they've got that equity riding with it and probably very low interest rates. But it's for that next wave of of people coming through, it's that's that's difficult and and the studies on the home ownership percentage for millennials and Gen Zs is is frighteningly low to me.

Steve-o (54:12.809)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Steve-o (54:20.707)
Yeah.

Steve-o (54:34.956)
Well, not only is it frightening low, I I feel like there was a stat at the GBS conference that I saw on this that it's it's actually one of the lowest per generation that we've ever seen, which which is a s yeah, it's a sad commentary. millennials just haven't had a chance to save like people before them, but yet there's so many programs available for savings and things of that nature. But the economy just hasn't allowed it a whole lot in that sense. So

Tony Benjamin (54:34.981)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (54:46.965)
I believe it.

Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (55:03.102)
Yeah.

Steve-o (55:03.992)
Kind of interesting to watch those dynamics.

Edward Van Halen (55:06.569)
But like I said before, I would still I still push I push people into HR or encourage them all the time. And at any given time, with how many clients I have, I feel like I'm coaching and mentoring about 30 people. It's like this isn't your world, but it is now. And and that's why we run our, you know, we have that six week course because we we have a Zoom based course that runs six weeks, and we break it down of and this is the nuts and bolts that you gotta know.

Steve-o (55:12.322)
Yeah.

Steve-o (55:21.463)
Ha.

Tony Benjamin (55:21.616)
Wow. Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (55:34.942)
to to be an HR and be and keep your keep your company out of trouble and and maintain compliance, but also lead the organization. So we we we meet for it's about ninety minutes each week for six weeks and then we go away each week with homework and with assignments and then come back, let's talk about it. And starting every meeting off with, okay, what happened to you this week? And it happens every meeting. It's like I didn't know what to do on this. And navigating Yeah.

Steve-o (55:39.907)
Mm-hmm.

Steve-o (56:02.382)
that's so great though, because then you can bounce ideas off one another and it's like it's like having a case study. Mm-hmm.

Tony Benjamin (56:07.054)
And ye all learn together.

Edward Van Halen (56:07.153)
And it's nine hours total. And it's it's so much better than a a an off off site nine hour meeting and what you can't you can't process and digest for that length of time.

Steve-o (56:19.48)
So how do how do they get involved in those classes, Joe? D is that something that they they pay for? Is that part of being

Edward Van Halen (56:24.487)
Yeah, they can they it's yeah, it's boostrecruits.com and they can sign up for those classes right through Boost Recruits. And you know what? I've had nearly a thousand people go through that course now. it's it's been we've been doing it coming up on 10 years and and we change it. It changes every time and they're it's live, it's interactive, and I record every session. So people miss class and HR people are busy.

Steve-o (56:29.485)
Mm-hmm.

Steve-o (56:37.966)
That's cool. That is cool.

Edward Van Halen (56:54.823)
And then my I I I'm very strongly minded about this that when they watch the recording, it's gotta be at 1.5x because it makes me sound really smart. Hey, it'll save you time. It's gonna be it's hey, it's a win-win.

Tony Benjamin (57:04.357)
Ha ha.

Steve-o (57:04.641)
Ha ha ha.

Tony Benjamin (57:06.778)
Ha ha.

Steve-o (57:10.722)
It's like my when my wife listens to the podcast, Tony. But my wife listens to the podcast at two point all the time. And what's crazy is she she listens to everything, right?

Tony Benjamin (57:11.034)
Ha ha ha.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (57:16.233)
It's Alvin and the chipmunks.

Tony Benjamin (57:21.71)
Yeah. Pretty much. Pretty much. That's

Steve-o (57:24.782)
She just loves that speed and she, I don't know, she gets it. sometimes I listen to that speed and I miss stuff. I'm just like, wait, what was that? So absolutely, she's way smarter than me. That's for sure. That's that's why she can listen it that way. So Joe, Joe, you mentioned something that I thought was really powerful, and because you talked about hiring from within and and promotions and things of that nature, you know, I'm in the talent space.

Edward Van Halen (57:31.109)
It y I think she's smarter than all of us. Yeah. Sh she wins. She wins.

Tony Benjamin (57:35.546)
Ha ha ha.

Wow. Wow, there we there we go.

Steve-o (57:53.704)
And when you're dealing with people ops like that and and that particular thing, one of the conundrums that I have with organizations all the time is do we find somebody from within or do we hire from without? Obviously, hiring from without can be much more expensive, but I don't think enough organizations are looking internally. They just assume that, well, nobody has the skill set that we need. When in reality, I mean, when we built Applicant Pro, I can't tell you how many times we found somebody internally.

Edward Van Halen (58:16.029)
Yeah.

Steve-o (58:23.008)
On their resume or just random, you know, just having discussions with people that, my gosh, you could actually do this. Why don't we just move you into this role within the organization? We can train on the other stuff because you have the skill sets and you have the the mindset for it. Let's go ahead and train you to do that. That was way more effective than trying to go out there and recruit all the time and try to find brand new people. and so I'm just curious your thoughts on that since you mentioned this concept of internal.

Edward Van Halen (58:46.461)
Yeah.

Steve-o (58:51.37)
because I found the internal extremely powerful and and we have to know and understand our people from within in order for that to be effective.

Edward Van Halen (58:54.813)
Yes.

Edward Van Halen (58:59.185)
Yeah, Applicant Pro, you you guys were s ahead of your time in doing that and and targeting people that you could build from from within. Where I think we there there's so much opportunity, and an easy opportunity to make this happen at a bigger level is to celebrate each and every promotion in whatever way that is. Maybe you have a seven foot hockey trophy.

And that trophy goes right on someone's desk for a week after they get promoted from within. It's like, you you and I'm just making things up, but we don't celebrate it enough. People find out through the grapevine vine four months later, but if we celebrate every one of those and if all the employees know, they're then they're thinking, I can make that path too. I can this person jumped from marketing into sales or into HR or operations.

Opening so I I think the celebration side is we miss a lot of

Steve-o (59:57.614)
Yeah. And and and just understanding that that type of jump is okay. In fact, sometimes it it's like the old book from Jim Collins, Good to Great. You've got the right people on the bus. Sometimes they're just not in the right seats just yet. And and it's not that they're not in the right seats because we didn't know to place them there. It's just sometimes those individuals get to a point where they're stagnant in their role and they're ready to move into the next seat. And we have to be willing to to recognize and see that, but also ask the questions.

And get them there. So so I think that those are some valuable lessons for sure. Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (01:00:31.79)
No, that's I I f I find that very, very much to be true. Most companies, especially when they post outside, they want somebody who's been there, done that, and has the t shirt of the job that they're opening. They're not looking for that growth into that, right? So why does that appeal to a person if they already have the t shirt? Except those people who are content at that level. And I not that there's anything wrong with that, but

Steve-o (01:00:44.108)
Mm-hmm.

Edward Van Halen (01:00:48.585)
Yeah, no.

Steve-o (01:00:55.544)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (01:00:57.828)
The point is is just that those people are plateaued. If you don't want a plateauing person, then why are you advertising for the the the exact same experience as what they will need to do what they're doing now? Or it's the same thing. And promoting from within, you grow them into it. And the transition goes faster, but you have to teach a little bit more. So but but that's exactly, yeah.

Edward Van Halen (01:01:18.067)
Yeah.

Steve-o (01:01:19.15)
Yeah, but they already know your cul your culture. They already know your core values. There there is so much value there already that has been planted. That's why there's to me, there's extreme value in promoting from with

Edward Van Halen (01:01:30.375)
Yeah. And they know the players. They know all the players and they know by first name and and and they get more help from other other places.

Tony Benjamin (01:01:30.426)
No, I agree, I agree.

Steve-o (01:01:34.616)
Yep. Yep.

Tony Benjamin (01:01:39.344)
That's no that's that's brilliant. Okay. So Joe, what have we not mentioned along this road that you want to talk about?

Steve-o (01:01:48.728)
Japan. I mean, come on. You gotta tell us about Japan.

Tony Benjamin (01:01:50.436)
Yes, let's hear about Japan. They yeah, let's go there. Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (01:01:53.812)
I was I was chas I call it chasing turns because I started skiing when I was three and I've never stopped I wanna find the perfect term. And we've talked me and some buddies, I've known them from since high school, we've talked about Japan for years and i you know, you gotta be careful on the chairlift I've found. That you're on we're riding up the chairlift, it's

Tony Benjamin (01:02:18.894)
Ha ha ha.

Edward Van Halen (01:02:20.499)
Phones are put away, you're talking to your buddies, you've got dreams and bucket list items and things you want to do. And we've mentioned Japan. And it was about 14 months ago we were on the chairlift and it we got brought up again. And the idea was, yeah, we're gonna make it happen this time. And I've got some buddies who work for Delta Airlines. And they said, you know what, next year is the last year of the buddy passes. So let's go out w let's go out in in flames.

Steve-o (01:02:41.4)
There you go.

Edward Van Halen (01:02:48.357)
And I'm not an employee. So they were sharing buddy passes and we ended up with nine people be and someone said, Well, let's go to Naseco. I've heard the word before, didn't know what that meant, and I'm it the these two words got me in trouble. And it was, I'm in. That's all I said was was was I'm in.

Tony Benjamin (01:02:57.85)
Ha ha ha.

Steve-o (01:03:03.374)
So that's not a Japanese dish then, I assume.

Edward Van Halen (01:03:07.981)
No, no, no. but so we started planning it and who knew it would be the worst snow in fifty years on the Wasatch front. Meanwhile, Japan was just getting pummeled with with snow. And not only were we chasing turns, the these all they they all fly they're called non Rev flights because they're employees and they've been there for over twenty years, they they go they they chase seats.

Tony Benjamin (01:03:08.346)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (01:03:37.51)
So so all of a sudden they're saying, no, we're flying to Detroit. We're going to Detroit so we can nonstop to Tokyo. Why? So they can sit up in Delta One. You know, I'm in the back of the plane and they're up there in their own little condominium up there. But I've got the buddy pass the $500 ticket in the back. I just have fees and taxes. So I got to Tokyo and we spent four days in Tokyo. And I was enamored by the I I went there searching for turn turns and

Tony Benjamin (01:03:37.861)
Right, right.

Tony Benjamin (01:03:50.023)
yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Steve-o (01:03:52.59)
Poor Joe.

Edward Van Halen (01:04:05.575)
I came back with just an appreciation for and and a thought of I need to be a better individual. Because I'm in a city in Tokyo for four days with I don't know, 38 million people, the largest city on the planet, and I felt safe. And I was riding the subway and I felt safe and I saw respect and people going to work and subways fuller than New York City, and young people giving up their seats for elderly people who.

Probably need to sit down and very hushed hush and whispers on the subway. And then I fly J Japan Airlines from Tokyo to Sapporo and I witness live the best flight attendants that I've ever seen on Earth and fluent in five languages and going to the back of the plane at each intermission and bowing to the to the people. And it was life-changing for me that Japan.

Steve-o (01:04:36.952)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (01:05:04.953)
Is just amazing. And so I and yeah, they I'm sure they have their own struggles and problems and but homelessness isn't one of Four days traveling, you know, a hundred thousand steps in Tokyo, and I saw two homeless people. Yeah, they're they're doing it they're doing some things there. And it was a geo geography. Go ahead, go ahead.

Tony Benjamin (01:05:18.895)
Wow.

Well.

Steve-o (01:05:24.802)
Doing something right. And I I wasn't well, I was just saying I was intrigued in your presentation because you talked about how courteous, kind, thoughtful, selfless they were in in treating you as a guest in their country.

Tony Benjamin (01:05:27.194)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (01:05:41.022)
Yes. Yeah. And and the power of our of our cell phones and and the the power to walk for me to walk in to a small drugstore and and Tokyo is the home of 80,000 convenience stores. So you live it it's the biggest thing on the on the planet. And if you don't get one of those egg salad sandwiches in the morning, you are missing out, and you buy the chicken patty and put it on top.

Steve-o (01:06:01.719)
Wow.

Edward Van Halen (01:06:10.119)
And they have these these egg salad sandwiches are they've got some laser machine that sli that that slices the crusts off, but it looks like it was it looks like some person it was like laser precision. And and so but then I walk in and I say into my phone, I need I I have a sore muscle and I need something that will like a cream that I can put on my shoulder and help me relieve this sore muscle, translate to Japanese from English.

Turn it to the the the clerk there and she greets me with a big smile and walks me back to where I need to go. So our f the phones just solve so many of the communication problems. Or I hit my phone and I'm on Google Translate and I hit the the video and I can hold it up to any sign and say, yeah, there's my train. That's where I need to go. with every sign whether you're in whether you're in Italy or the Netherlands or Japan.

Tony Benjamin (01:07:02.01)
Wow, I don't know you could do that. That's pretty cool.

Steve-o (01:07:04.12)
yeah, there's it's powerful. Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (01:07:08.785)
And and Japan, yeah, you're not gonna get words that translate over a written words in in Japanese that translate over to to anything Western, but it levels the playing field and all of a sudden you can feel safe when you're five thousand miles from home.

Steve-o (01:07:23.424)
And and think about that from a yeah, think about that from an HR perspective. You know, when we think about our employees and how we treat them internally and and things of that nature, I mean, I I what I loved about your presentation is you were really trying to equate it to how we treat people and and which is why you came back as as feeling like you were a better person because it helped you realize that yeah, we really do need to treat people just better.

Tony Benjamin (01:07:24.388)
That's cool.

Edward Van Halen (01:07:46.185)
Yeah.

Steve-o (01:07:50.902)
and so anyway, I was I was fascinated by that and and your kind of analogy and relating it to the workplace. So I love that that aspect of your trip.

Edward Van Halen (01:07:57.14)
Yeah. They've done it and they've done it at scale and and and and they do it in business all the time. I I will buy a Toyota vehicle tomorrow knowing that it will go three hundred thousand miles. And I think that's a cultural thing too, because on their lines, manufacturing lines, if something goes south, anybody has the the ability to stop the process and say this isn't working. And and it it shows.

Steve-o (01:08:01.004)
Mm-hmm.

Steve-o (01:08:22.414)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (01:08:25.927)
Yeah, so go Japan. I sh Right.

Steve-o (01:08:26.294)
And they're okay with that. They're okay with getting the feedback, which I think is fascinating. I mean, how many employer employees today are afraid to speak up and say something in their own work environment, right? Yeah. Yeah. That says something, I think. It it is, but it's real.

Tony Benjamin (01:08:26.586)
That's

Edward Van Halen (01:08:36.369)
Almost all of yeah.

Tony Benjamin (01:08:39.47)
That's a scary thought. That what Joe just said, that's that's scary. That's yeah, yeah. No, that's that

Edward Van Halen (01:08:45.843)
Well and I've even senior even at senior levels. So I had a VP of HR that I was working with and and she said people are not speaking their mind, even at senior levels, and there's fourteen leaders to this company. And and I talked to her about okay, we're going to put ideas in a hat then, and you pass it around, put your idea in the hat, and let the HR person control that. And these are all anonymous suggestions of let's go here with this. So people aren't hesitant to say, I don't want the CEO thinking this about me. Yeah.

Steve-o (01:09:02.67)
Here.

Tony Benjamin (01:09:13.402)
You know, I've been in a meeting before where somebody in there said, All right, I'm about to shorten my career at this company, but I just have to say. And everybody go, Whoa, he said it out loud, right? And it wasn't it mm-hmm. And and I just w one of my pet peeves about American business is this idea that if if the employee, the human resource isn't working well, I'll kick it and it will do better. That drives me nuts.

Steve-o (01:09:26.05)
Yeah. But you know people are thinking it already.

Edward Van Halen (01:09:29.811)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (01:09:43.343)
Like I hate that. It's it just drives me bonkers. So it I don't know. No, well I mean, what makes you think that works no matter what? If I just ride them a little bit harder and I'm a little bit harsher with them, they'll step up. What in the world makes you think that'll work? Like I get it, like every once in a while there's these people that thrive on that sort of thing, right? I understand that. But not

Edward Van Halen (01:09:45.993)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Steve-o (01:09:48.162)
You don't want to be kicked.

Edward Van Halen (01:10:00.17)
Yeah.

Steve-o (01:10:04.492)
Yeah.

Steve-o (01:10:11.21)
Every once in a while, yeah, that's not very much.

Tony Benjamin (01:10:12.098)
a majority of people. No, right. It's just I don't know. This if if I say to you, hey, this machine here is producing eighty widgets an hour instead of a hundred that it was designed to do and it and you want it to increase it to get it to a hundred, you don't go over to it with a sledgehammer and start hitting it and saying, you know, the beatings will continue until morale improves. That's ridiculous. Like it I I just I don't understand that process, but that's that very many people do that.

Edward Van Halen (01:10:33.032)
Yeah, yeah.

Steve-o (01:10:39.072)
Yeah, that's in business a lot. It's very true. Absolutely it does. Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (01:10:41.006)
I if I'm harsh with you, yes. And and it makes people feel unsafe and defensive and then they stop sharing and then your company starts falling apart. Like it just it I don't know. It it's ridiculous.

Edward Van Halen (01:10:41.445)
It destroys loyalty. Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (01:10:49.405)
Yeah.

Steve-o (01:10:54.232)
Well, and then people are reluctant to even talk about it or address it, right? I mean, and that's a problem. When they're not even able to talk about it or address it, how can you improve? And and you know, and I'm of the mindset, and I know this is probably very optimistic of me, but I am of the mindset that most people want to do good. Most people want to see others succeed, right? The majority of us are not in it to try to put somebody else down or step on their toes and get up there.

Edward Van Halen (01:10:58.301)
Mm-hmm.

Tony Benjamin (01:10:58.628)
Yes, yes.

Edward Van Halen (01:11:13.927)
yeah.

Tony Benjamin (01:11:14.352)
Mm-hmm.

Steve-o (01:11:23.628)
And I'll I'll tell you, I've seen people who are that way where they just want to step on the toes and and just knock somebody down to go up. And sometimes they do get there, but they're miserable once they get there because they're all alone. Nobody wants to talk to them. Nobody trusts them. And I'm telling you, in in American business today, we have to be able to trust and work with one another in order to make the business successful. Period.

Edward Van Halen (01:11:38.217)
Yeah.

Steve-o (01:11:50.578)
Wh which which is why to me people operations is so important. It's so important. So anyway, I'll get I'll get off my pedestal there, but

Tony Benjamin (01:11:50.949)
Yep.

Edward Van Halen (01:11:55.219)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (01:11:57.701)
So okay, that's that's a whole no, no, there you just opened the door to a whole nother thing that I don't think we have time. We we had talked about before about talking about yeah, well we're gonna have to do that. Well, we're gonna have to talk about all the different names that are coming out for HR. but Joe Joe, tell us how can they look into your classes again? What's the web address there to get into that?

Edward Van Halen (01:12:00.967)
Really good.

Edward Van Halen (01:12:04.731)
Episode two.

Steve-o (01:12:06.559)
Ha ha ha.

Edward Van Halen (01:12:18.353)
Yeah, it's Boost Recruits. One word and recruits is plural. So boost recruits dot com. And it's just easy. Front page, you can sign in sign in, front page, and and take it from there. We got a shiny new website.

Tony Benjamin (01:12:25.53)
Excellent.

Tony Benjamin (01:12:32.748)
And what what else is going on that y that you're working on right now that people can do or sign up for?

Steve-o (01:12:36.834)
Yeah, what do you want to promote? What do you want to talk about?

Edward Van Halen (01:12:38.757)
So yeah, I've done that I've done that like basic essentials HR course for for ten years. We we've developed and we're rolling out an executive level course for this summer. So higher end anyway anybody who's kind of HR director and above is who it's aimed at. And we'll talk about some nitty-gritty things. It'll be a four four week course and a continuation of of their career and giving them skills at at the higher level.

Tony Benjamin (01:13:08.324)
Very cool. Very cool. I've known people that have gone through your courses and they rave about them. matter of fact, to the point where sometimes it's a bit annoying. You're like, Okay, okay, I get it. It was really cool. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, that's how good it was. They just talked on that much about it. But anyways, Joe, thank you for being on the podcast with us. Like, wow, that's that's all I can say. You you dropped it on us today and we're super appreciative.

Edward Van Halen (01:13:08.509)
Yeah, so that's that's gonna be fun.

Edward Van Halen (01:13:14.325)
Steve-o (01:13:18.188)
Yeah. It's really annoying. No

Tony Benjamin (01:13:39.096)
The crowd goes wild.

Steve-o (01:13:41.26)
Why

Edward Van Halen (01:13:41.263)
Is this is this the point that all three of us get to crowd surf now? Is that all right. Ma maybe a another time. Another time.

Steve-o (01:13:46.486)
That's right. Yeah. Until we all come together and join hands and sing Kumbaya and stuff. So

Tony Benjamin (01:13:49.615)
Yeah, well that's that's right. Well no, I'm I I like I have I've learned a lot. I think that's really good stuff and and again, I I know Steve's a big deal 'cause he has your respect, Joe. That's how big of a deal you are. So anyways, fantastic. Thanks again, Joe. We appreciate it very much. And Steve, is there anything else we need to touch on really quick?

Edward Van Halen (01:13:52.639)
Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (01:13:56.871)
So much fun. Thank you.

Steve-o (01:14:08.782)
I love Joe, so

Steve-o (01:14:19.666)
Are we doing a HR life segment? I I am am I being gotcha. Okay. Cause I I saw the the Grogu movie and I just was a little giddy excited about it. I know, right? Yeah, because you gotta go watch it first. Sorry, Joe. We can't talk about Grogu on your episode.

Tony Benjamin (01:14:22.244)
Not today. I haven't got one I haven't got one today and we're a little over so but we'll

Tony Benjamin (01:14:30.017)
well we we can't we can't review that yet 'cause I haven't seen it. And I'm yeah it's for the first time in ever, Steve has seen a movie that I haven't. Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (01:14:37.423)
If if Tony could do his homework, you know, just once, you know.

Steve-o (01:14:41.74)
I know, right? It's ridiculous.

Tony Benjamin (01:14:42.96)
Okay. I have two gigs next week and and all my time has been focused on that or at home with health issues and different stuff. So I I have not been able to see. I was gonna go last night, but that didn't work out. So that the car in the shop. See, that's how that works. Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (01:14:46.983)
gotcha, gotcha.

Steve-o (01:15:00.394)
I enjoyed it. So, you know, review wise, it it's it it didn't really add any substance to the normal Star Wars trilogies and things like that. But it was just a good, fun storyline and and you know, I think the kids are gonna love it, you know, with little baby Yoda, you know, it's I don't know. Just it was good. I liked it. I won't give anything else. Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (01:15:16.036)
We're gonna

That w we're gonna dive into this, whether you non Star Wars fans like it or not, I guess. But we're gonna we're gonna dive into it. We're gonna dive into it. All right, well I guess then we'll break it down. When Grogu resolves the a sexual harassment case, then that's using the force. That was the most

Edward Van Halen (01:15:22.103)
Ha ha ha.

Steve-o (01:15:23.657)
Ha ha.

Edward Van Halen (01:15:25.864)
Yeah.

Steve-o (01:15:28.344)
There's so much HR in it, it's just ridiculous. So we'll yeah. Let me tell ya.

No, actually it wasn't. It was it wasn't harassment training at all.

Edward Van Halen (01:15:37.962)
I yeah, that was fantastic.

Tony Benjamin (01:15:43.438)
No. All right, here we go.

Steve-o (01:15:44.812)
Yeah. What what do you call it, Joe, again? It's not harassment training. Respect in the workplace. Let me tell you, there was a scene in this in this movie about respect in the workplace that definitely needed to take place. So I yeah, anyway. There you go. There you go.

Edward Van Halen (01:15:48.517)
Respect in the workplace, baby. Respect in the workplace. Yeah.

Edward Van Halen (01:15:59.547)
Are good.

Tony Benjamin (01:16:02.862)
All done in armor. All right.

Edward Van Halen (01:16:04.765)
Well thank you so much, my friends. It was so enjoyable. Yeah.

Steve-o (01:16:06.946)
Yeah, we appreciate you, Joe.

Tony Benjamin (01:16:09.05)
Thank you very much. All right. I guess we're going out the way that we came in.

Tony Benjamin (01:16:16.772)
Thank you for listening to today's podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a five star review on your favorite podcast app. Comments or questions for us? Email the podcast at the HRlife Podcast at gmail.com. And we'll talk again soon.