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Erin and Paul, the dynamic husband-wife pilot duo, have taken their passion for aviation to new heights by building their very own Bearhawk 5. In this episode, they share the incredible journey of finding the perfect aircraft, navigating the world of airplane kits, and the challenges of construction, all while balancing their personal and professional lives. Their story is not just about the mechanics of building a plane; it's also about the adventures that flying brings, including their recent experience at Oshkosh, where they celebrated the culmination of their hard work. Along the way, they discuss the importance of community and support in aviation, the exciting features of their new plane, and their plans for a nomadic lifestyle in the skies. Join us as we dive into their inspiring journey and discover the joys and challenges of becoming owners of a custom-built aircraft.
Takeaways:
Pilot to Pilot is the podcast for anyone who flies — or dreams about it. Host Justin Siems sits down with airline captains, bush pilots, CFIs, and everyone in between for honest conversations about the path to the cockpit, the grind of the career, and the love of flying that keeps us coming back. Whether you're a student pilot chasing your first solo or a captain with 20,000 hours, there's a seat for you here. New episodes weekly.
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We're Aaron and Paul and we're
husband wife pilot duo flying our
Bearhawk 5 that we just built
over the past five months here in
Oklahoma.
So AV Nation, what is going on?
And welcome back to the Pilot
the Pilot podcast.
My name is Justin Seams and I
am your host.
Today's episode is with Aaron
and Paul.
You might know them from Aaron
and Paul flies.
They have just built probably
one of the cooler airplanes planes
I've seen in a while.
No offense to anyone else
that's currently building an airplane
or has built an airplane but
this plane was sick.
I saw it outside the Garmin
tent at EAA Oshkosh, which we'll
talk about this later but if
you weren't there you need to go.
It was amazing, but it was sweet.
It's a Bearhawk 5.
I thought it was just a
Bearhawk but they told me it's a
Bearhawk 5.
So there's four other
airplanes they have which is sick.
Bear Hawk, congratulations,
your airplane's awesome.
They're talking about their
how they were trying to find an airplane
that was perfect for them and
they were not willing to kind of
give in to that.
They wanted the best airplane
they possibly could.
They went down the route of
possib buying an airplane and put
some offers in but for one
reason or another it just didn't
work out.
So they went with the Bearhawk five.
They built it in what seems
like a day, but it was a legit full
build process.
And they did the build assist
program and they documented the whole
thing, which was so cool to see.
Do I want a Bearhawk?
I don't know.
I mean, just talking to them
was kind of cool.
So podcast and Bearhawks, that
sounds kind of cool.
But I did joke with him a
little bit about their name.
I am actually on Aaron side
where I don't like the name Tina.
I'm just going to throw it out there.
So if you're against that, I'm
sorry, you're against the podcast.
This is what it is.
But aviation, it was a lot of
fun talking with them as a lot of
fun having them on.
They're an awesome couple,
they're awesome people and I really,
really look forward to seeing
how they're going to build out their
airplane.
As they have just said in this
podcast, they are not necessarily
done.
They're going to do some
modular camping stuff to it and truly
live the nomadic life, which
is awesome.
AV Nation, I hope you're
enjoying these podcasts.
I know it's been a little bit
since we've had one on.
As I've said in a few other
podcasts, there is just craziness
going on in my life and a lot
of stuff going on.
And one day maybe you talk
about it.
One day maybe not.
But Oshkosh is great re
energized again to to go in on content
and continue to make podcasts.
So this is the first one we've
released in probably a month, but
recording another one later
this week and we're getting back
after it.
So podcasts are coming back.
There's gonna be consistency
to it.
They're going to be continuous
and it is not going to be stopping.
So I appreciate everyone
that's reached out and it was awesome
seeing everyone at Oshkosh.
My buddy Joe from Germany fly
with Captain Joe.
It was great seeing you.
It was awesome hanging out and
having a lot of fun.
So we will see you hopefully
next Tuesday because this one's coming
out pretty quick.
So we're going to get another
podcast recorded on Thursday and
we will have that one out
coming next Tuesday as well.
So, AV Nation, as always, I
appreciate you listening this podcast
and without any further ado,
here is Aaron and Paul flies Aaron
and Paul, what's going on?
Welcome to the Pilot to Pilot
podcast, dude.
Thanks for having us.
Yeah, we're so excited to be here.
Yeah, this is actually the
first podcast I've ever had with
two people on the other side.
So if it doesn't work out,
well, who knows I've only talked
to one person, the other side.
I might get shy and just be
like, oh, that's too much.
But we'll make it work.
It's gonna be a good one.
I'm excited to have you guys on.
I mean, I feel like everyone's
seen the plane that you've built
and has kind of seen what
you've done with.
With social media and where
you are today.
And, I mean, everyone's
jealous of Tina except for the name.
Before we started recording, I
told Paul and Aaron that I am on
Aaron's side and not a huge
fan of the Tina name.
So if they can change it, we'll.
At the end of this podcast,
we're going to change the name.
Yeah, I like this idea, Justin.
We'll do, like, a whole new poll.
Yeah, I like.
I got you.
I got you a whole new poll.
We're doing it again.
That'll probably backfire
again, like the last one.
Yeah, yeah, we'll give it a shot.
But the first thing I always
ask everyone is, is why did you guys
get into aviation and what was
kind of what started it?
Yeah.
Well, I think it probably
started with me back when I was a
kid.
My grandpa was a Navy pilot,
and he flew for Alaska Airlines for
40 years.
So, man, I grew up, like,
playing with planes all the time.
I remember thinking, I would
love to fly planes, but I didn't
ever think it was realistic.
Like, aviation is expensive.
I always saw it was something
that I could never do.
But I became a traveling ICU
nurse back in 2018, and when I started
travel nursing, I got on this
one assignment in the middle of nowhere,
Kentucky, and I was so bored
out of my mind.
And a advertisement for a
flight school popped up on my screen
one night, and I started training.
So it was back 2018 when I
started training.
I got my license in 2020, and
then we got married in 2020, and
we started flying together a
bit during COVID And we would just
do, like, fun flights.
We'd go, let's see, at my.
My travel assignment was in
Fresno, California, and we would
fly to the coast when we
couldn't drive anywhere.
And so we'd fly out to the
coast, we'd, like, grab a hotel,
we would grab some clam
chowder, walk on the beach.
And aviation became this thing
for Aaron and I that was a window
to adventure.
It was like this ability to
get away and do something that we
couldn't do otherwise.
And I think that's where the
bug bit Aaron.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because I didn't grow up
around aviation.
Like, none of my family were
pilots or anything.
And so, honestly, I just had
never even thought of it.
It was never even an idea to me.
And I didn't even know that,
like, general aviation existed.
I knew that, like, you could
have a career as a pilot, but I didn't
realize, like, you could enjoy
aviation just for fun too.
So when Paul got his license
and we were doing all these weekend
trips, it was really like the
travel and, like, the adventure.
And we were living in Fresno
at the time, and if anyone knows
where Fresno is, it's kind of
in the armpit of California.
And so.
And with COVID too, and
everything being shut down, it was
like an opportunity.
I was like, oh, well, we could
still rent the plane and go have
fun and have weekend
adventures and just go fly to the
coast for the day and still
fly back.
And so to me, aviation, like,
and the idea of becoming a pilot
bit me when we were doing
these, like, weekend trips for fun.
And it was like seeing the
opportunities it was brought to you,
that was readily a feasible in
other ways.
So.
Yeah.
So were your parents shocked
when you're like, I'm gonna be a
pilot too?
Yeah, I know they were.
They definitely were.
Honestly, it was that.
And then it was also,
personally, a little bit of, like,
my challenge in my head that I
was like, if Paul got his pilot's
license, I could get my
pilot's license.
You're like, I know how smart
Paul is.
If he can do it, I can do it.
I was like, I gotta prove this
to myself.
He can do what I can do.
That's really funny.
I love a load of good couple competition.
You know, it's healthy.
It's like, who's flying left
seat this flight?
I know we rock, paper, scissors.
That's awesome.
I love it.
How'd you guys meet?
We met in undergrad, so Paul's
a fifth year senior, and then I was
a freshman, so kind of robbed
the cradle on that one.
Love it.
Love it, dude.
We met in choir, though.
I think that's.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Yeah, that's awesome.
We were both in collegiate inquire.
We traveled.
It was an acapella ensemble.
And okay, yeah, she was a
freshman that walked in.
I was like, hey, how you doing?
Yeah.
And then we did, like, long
distance for, like, four years or
so.
So after he graduated, I
finished school.
He started travel nursing.
But with him, with travel
nursing, he was able to, like, still
set aside a lot of time that
we were able to see each other about,
like, Every three weeks or so,
so it worked out.
Where'd you guys go for undergrad?
We went to a small private
school in Indiana.
It's called Indiana Westland University.
I've heard of it before.
You have?
Yes, I have.
Wow.
I feel like you're one of 10
people I know.
Like no one's ever heard of it.
I have heard of it before.
I had friends.
I went to Ohio State, so not
too far away.
But I knew people in Ohio.
That went well.
I didn't know the people, but
their family members went to Indiana
Wesleyan, so.
Or Indiana Wesleyan, not Indiana.
Did I say it wrong?
No, we're good.
Whatever.
Anyways, yes, I've heard of it before.
Are you guys Midwest originally?
Yeah, kind of.
I'm from Pennsylvania.
Pittsburgh.
Pennsylvania.
And I call Kansas City home.
Oh, I actually knew that.
Kyle told me that.
You're right.
From Olathe, right?
Yeah, Olathe.
Yeah.
Which is actually.
It's fun now, working with
Garmin and getting to be a part of
their family.
Because when in high school,
right across the street from Garmin
International is a Culver's,
and I would go there after class,
like, probably three or four
times a week and finish up my math
homework there.
Like, vivid memories of just
staring at Garmin as I'm doing homework.
And you would look at Garmin,
like, one day your 80 watts will
be in my airplane one day.
I don't know it yet, but it's
gonna happen.
I'm manifesting it.
Exactly.
So, Paul, you mentioned that
you had a family member that flew
for Alaska.
Um, there was never any kind
of idea of, like, growing up or before
you decided to be a nurse or
anything like that.
Like, hey, I could be a pilot too.
No.
Yeah.
Not as a career.
And I. I don't know if that
just wasn't a conversation my parents
had with me.
I don't know if I actually
haven't even talked to my dad about
this.
Like, was this just not a
lifestyle that you wanted?
I. I'm not sure.
It just wasn't an option.
It was like the.
The career routes that were
always talk to us was like health
care or the science, the
sciences or computer science, things
like that.
But never going airlines.
Yeah.
And I didn't.
I wasn't exposed to it.
I didn't even think about, oh,
I could be like my grandpa and go
fly for Alaska.
Like, that's a job that I
could have.
I always thought of it as
something you could do for fun on
the side.
And it wasn't something that I
saw as being achievable in my life
when I was a kid, at least.
Yeah, I can relate to that.
My dad was actually an airline
pilot and so is my grandpa.
But I played sports my whole
life, so I was so focused on sports.
But I didn't fly a single
engine plane until my first flight.
Less than a 21.
So even with my dad being a
pilot, like, I didn't even really
realize what the GA community
was like.
I only saw it as a profession
and as a career.
It's like I. I knew there were
small plans, but I had no idea what
GA looked like until I
actually took my first flight.
So even being that close to
it, you can still kind of just like
be so far removed from it at
the time, which is crazy.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It's like the thing that dad
does or it's the thing that grandpa
does, but not just thing that
Justin and Paul.
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
Yeah.
But now we do.
Now we do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When you're travel nursing and
you're going around and you're kind
of like, man, I'm bored and
I'm gonna go be a pilot.
Aaron, were you like, what are
you doing?
Like, what are you where you
are a nurse, you're making good money.
I'm guessing this is before.
Was this before kind of like
travel nursing took off?
Because wasn't that more like
a Covid, like where the pay was like,
absolutely insane?
Yeah, yeah.
So Paul just probably like,
what are you doing with your life?
Like, you have your career.
Don't do something else.
Yeah, yeah.
No, honestly.
Yeah, I was, I was excited for
him with it.
I don't feel like I ever like
second guessed it, really.
I was just like, this is so cool.
He was in travel nursing, like
you said, prior to like Covid and
stuff.
So he had been in it for a while.
And like, honestly, you make
good money as a travel nurse.
And I was like, go do it.
Like, if you're going to have
a fun, like, hobby doing it, why
not?
I support you.
And yeah, I remember being a
part of one of his flight lessons
when he was in his private
back in Louisville and it was the
first time I'd ever been in a
GA aircraft and him and his instructor
did zero gravity and gave me
absolutely no warning.
And for the longest time,
every time there was like any sort
of like movement in the plane,
I was just like gripping the seats
and stuff.
So, yeah, I was always supporting.
But then it gave me like, anxiety.
After my first flight with
him, she.
Almost never flew again.
After that flight, we did it,
like, three times in a row, too.
And she was like, we better
land now, or else.
This is not gonna.
Everyone's gonna be cleaning
this airplane.
I don't blame you, Aaron.
I would have been the same way.
But I.
Look, get me out of this.
I'm never flying again.
So kudos to you for overcoming
that and being like, no, I'm gonna
do it.
I think that's really cool.
How long was it after Paul got
his rating that you actually decided
to do it?
I had played with the idea for
a while.
Like, when we were in
California, like, every time we were
going on the trip, I was
talking about it, and we would, like,
briefly mention it.
Like, I think it'd be so cool
if I also got my license.
And we both, like, flew, like,
I don't know, both of us together.
But it wasn't until we moved
to Arizona, so I think it was, like,
two years later that I was
like, all right, I'm going to work
on, like, getting my private
and stuff.
And then I just, like, dove
into it.
So, yeah, at that point,
honestly, I had, like, this major,
like, career shift where I had
started, like, my photography business.
Things started growing in that
direction really well, and I think
it kind of boosted my
confidence a little bit that, like,
all right, I was able to
achieve, like, a goal that I thought
was impossible with growing my
photography business.
Like, maybe I can actually,
like, put time aside and get my pilot's
license for real.
So, yeah, it was.
I think that kind of pivoted
things a little bit more in that
way.
Yeah.
And what brought you guys out
to Arizona?
Paul's a truck.
Like, his travel contracts.
Oh, cool.
Nice.
And then you guys just kind of
liked it there.
Are you still doing travel
nursing right now?
No, I.
My last contract was three
years ago now.
Oh, it's been a while.
It has been.
Yeah.
I'm barely a nurse anymore, so if.
Anything happens, I'm not
going to trust you.
Yeah.
Please don't.
Help me.
Help me.
No.
Erin's business took off while
we were there in Phoenix, and she
kind of hired me out of
nursing to be her second shooter,
so.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Good for you.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
So that's kind of what kept us
out there a little bit.
Like, his travel nurse brought
us out there, and then, like, our
business took off, so we.
Yeah, that kind of planted us
a little bit more there.
Yeah, it's a little bit
different than Arizona and Kansas.
Arizona is a little bit
different than Kansas City and Indiana
definitely, for sure.
Or Pennsylvania.
Yeah, yeah.
A little bit different.
A little nicer maybe, I would say.
But that's really cool.
When you guys were kind of in
the grind of the photo business,
was there any trying to do
kind of influencing type stuff or
content creation at all?
Or was this kind of idea of
Aaron and Paul just flying related?
Yeah, no, I had started.
It was at that point that I
had started creating our account
Aaron and Paul Fly.
And it was because I was
documenting all these weddings and
stuff like that.
I was capturing other people's
memories and I was like, you know
what, we're starting this
whole new journey of like my pilot's
license.
I might as well like capture that.
And honestly, we had even
thought of like, I mean, we didn't
have the name Aaron Paul Fly
for our like Instagram at that point,
but when we were flying coast
to coast, or not coast to coast from
like Fresno to the coast, same thing.
We had like played around.
Yeah, I know you're like, you
mean from middle Ca.
Anyway, but I had started
playing around with that idea and
like during COVID times, a lot
of these like creators were popping
up in the travel like, niches
that I was following.
And like, again, I didn't grow
up around aviation, so I wasn't really
looking at aviation creators
at that point, but I was looking
at a lot of other travel
creators, like Lovers Passport or
Danny the Explorer and stuff.
And I was watching them grow
and make like an income through it.
And that always like, really
piqued my interest.
And so when I saw that I was
able to like create an income through
like photography doing
weddings, I was like, maybe like,
we could do a little bit of
stuff over there and poply or something.
So I just started documenting
it because I was like, one.
It's a cool scrapbook of
memories to have.
But like, also this could be
like a really cool like side hustle
or like maybe career down the road.
So was it hard to go from
being the one taking the photo to
being like the subject content
or being in front of the camera?
Was that difficult?
Oh, 1,000%.
Yeah, there were.
There were times early in,
while we were still in Fresno that
we would just like sit down at
the table and we put a camera in
front of us and we just talked
to the camera for a while just to
try to like, figure out how.
And we still have some of
those videos and when we watch them,
like, like, oh my gosh,
they're so cringe.
Yeah, they will never see public.
No, they're coming Right now.
I need one of them right now.
We're gonna put it up.
Overlay this on YouTube.
Hi.
It's not natural.
It's.
It's not.
No, it's not.
It's not.
I. I have one, too.
I think it was, like, in the
heyday of, like, when vlogging first
started.
I mean, like, Logan Paul,
like, all that.
Kind of like the Jake Paul,
like, all that and talking.
Casey Neistat.
I remember I tried to film
myself talking from the camera, and
I watch back, and I'm like, what?
My wife's like, what are you doing?
Like, I don't know.
Just trying to be cool.
And it was not cool.
You gotta, like, start
somewhere and stuff, I guess.
Yeah, I guess you could say, I
guess now I talk in front of a camera,
and maybe I figured it out,
but I always say fake it till you
make it.
So just continue to try until
somehow you think you did it.
But it's still awkward.
Like, when I turn on the
camera, I'm like, all right, I'm
staring at a camera right now.
This is weird.
Yeah.
Because I didn't do video
podcasts for the first probably,
like, five years.
So, I mean, I would have,
like, a dark, dark room.
I'd have, like, a hoodie on.
I'd just be, like, hosted up,
just, like, talking to people.
Now I cannot do that, probably.
I mean, I still could, but
probably not the best.
You're, like, embracing your
emo self.
Yeah.
Oh, for sure.
My.
My introverted self was coming out.
Very true right there.
That was great.
Like, flashback podcast for
us, you know, just post.
All right.
The hoodie on.
I should be like, welcome to
the pilot.
The pilot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'll go back to Chicago, and
I'll get it done up there.
Oh, that'd be gold.
What kind of ratings do you
guys all have right now?
I think I've.
Aaron, did you finish your instrument?
Are you currently doing your instrument?
You finished it?
Yeah, I finished my instrument
last summer, and then.
Yes.
Private instrument.
High performance and complex, so.
Oh, sweet.
And, Paul, you just did your
CFI in, like, three days.
Three days.
It felt like it.
Yeah, it felt like it for me, too.
I was watching along.
I was like, I do not want to
have anything to do with it, man.
It was 21 days.
It was the longest one, 21
days of my life.
Longest and shortest.
Like, I wouldn't recommend
anyone do it.
Like, it was.
It was tough, but, yeah, I got
it done.
I skipped my cfi, thankfully.
But I'm very proud of you.
For doing it.
It's a, It's a big deal.
I think it's, it's one.
It's one of the hardest check
rides to do.
It's one of the hardest things
that you can do, I think when you
are becoming a pilot.
And it is not easy.
And I was like, I'm going to
get this aerial survey job piece.
I am not doing this.
So, man, good for you.
I think that's also a good
reminder though, like there are so
many other ways to build ours.
For sure.
I feel we're all pounded.
Cfi.
Cfi.
But there's so much out there.
Yeah.
I mean, I talked to one person
a long, long time ago.
They flew like a champ over
the water like 100 miles out over
the Pacific trying to like
fish spot for people.
And then he build like a
thousand hours doing that.
There's.
If you.
It's all about who you know
and all the opportunities that come
up to you.
And people do banner towing,
people do other cool stuff.
But yeah, CFI is, I think, one
of the best ways to do it.
I was just so tired of taking
check rides.
I was like, oh my gosh, I want
to get paid to fly.
And then you barely get paid
to fly, but it's still better than
paying to fly.
Yeah, but.
Yeah, that's right.
You're right.
Check rides are this, this
special thing that very few people
in the world get to experience.
But it is.
Yeah, it is.
It's an experience to prep and
then to do the check ride.
I try to talk to my parent, my
parents or her parents about what
a checkride is.
And I always compare it to
like nursing boards, like the boards
exams.
And it's like, it's like this
ramp up and then you have this day
that's just chaos.
And I don't know, it's.
It's a.
It's a wild ride.
I'm glad I don't have any
others for a while as well.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Same.
I have recurrent every like
nine months or every year.
And then I start getting worried.
My wife can relate to the
boards and the step exams and all
that kind of stuff.
Whenever she's studying for
those, I'm like, oh my gosh, no,
thank you.
Hard pass.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's probably similar to like
a photo shoot though too.
You know, you put all this
pressure into this one day, this
one event.
It's like we need to make sure
the cameras are working, the batteries
are working, you gotta backups
for everything.
And I need all the cameras all
that kind of stuff.
I'm like, not.
I'm watching the, like,
boards, exams for them, and even
checkride experience.
I'm like, ah, photo shoot.
We got it down, we're good.
Remember the batteries and SD cards?
Yeah.
That's all you need, right?
You can figure it out.
You have Photoshop now and AI,
you know.
Aaron, what was your first
checkride like?
Was it as stressful as you
thought it was gonna be or was it
not too bad?
Yeah, it was pretty stressful.
Yeah.
I had put a lot of stress on myself.
And actually it's kind of
funny you brought that up because
I was scrolling through some
things yesterday through our camera
roll and I had recorded a
video of myself like crying two days
before my check ride.
And I am like talking to the camera.
And we had done all our
training in Arizona, but then we
were taking our checkride up
in North Dakota or South Dakota.
Yeah, South Dakota.
And how did you end up there?
So the school, they have like
a program up in South Dakota and
in Arizona.
In Arizona it was like to get
a dpe.
It was like a couple months wait.
And also it was in the dead of
summer and I was like, that sounds
terrible.
And I'm also not going to
spend like a couple weeks of months
just like staying proficient,
flying just to like take this checkride.
So we flew up there and so it
was like learning the area.
Learning like we had been
flying out of an uncontrolled airspace
in Arizona, then learning to
fly out of like the controlled more,
which, like you learn in
private, but like, you're still such
a baby and stuff.
So like, it felt like a whole
new thing for me, feeling like I
was so good at my, like,
uncontrolled comms and stuff like
that and going in uncontrolled airports.
And then all of a sudden I'm
like, I have to talk to someone.
And so, yeah, it was that.
And then I was also like
learning the planes and then getting
like a whole new instructor to
fly with me.
It just felt like a ton of
different things.
And I just like, I remember
having this like, pressure of the
checkride that everyone feels,
but also like, kind of felt like
a whole new learning
environment, like just a week before
everything.
And so, yeah, it was that.
And it was also the pressure
too, of like we had started documenting
everything through social
media and.
And we had like everyone like,
oh my gosh, good luck.
Your tech ride.
Let us know how it goes.
And I'm like, oh my gosh,
there is this like sort of external
pressure when you start
documenting everything.
And I think, like, we have
always prided ourselves on showing,
like, the ups and downs of things.
And, like, if I was going to
fail, like, I was going to put it
out there, but it was going to
be one of those.
That it would feel like super,
super vulnerable, like putting something
out there instead of, like, a
proud moment of passing a checkride.
So I was internalizing all
these things when I was recording
this video.
And, yeah, anyway, I was stressed.
To answer your question, I
can't imagine going to a new area,
learning new landmarks, you
know, ground reference maneuvers,
learning how to talk.
When I did at Ohio State, they
had, like, very specific, like, places,
like, all right, over the
water Towers, over I270, over this
road.
It's like, all right, I know
where those roads are.
Where I've trained for the
last 40, 50 hours.
Now you're going to a new place.
You got to learn new landmarks.
You got to learn how to talk
to the atc.
A different atc.
Everything's just so much different.
And like you said, you're a
baby pilot.
Like, you can barely do two
things at once.
You're lucky that you can just
fly straight and level at this point
and talk to someone.
So throwing in all that has to
be pretty difficult.
But it sounds like everything
went well.
And I don't remember there
being a failing, failing video.
So it sounds like it was a success.
Not yet.
Not yet.
That's awesome.
What was it like going for instrument?
Did you count on Paul a lot to
help you out?
Sorry, say it again.
When you did your.
When you started doing all
your instrument training in the checkride,
did you count on Paul a lot
for that to help you out?
Yeah, that helped a ton.
Honestly, having Paul
throughout all my training has been
super helpful because I've
been able to ask him questions that
I need clarification on.
And from the beginning of my
private training, he's been sitting
backseat.
And so a lot of the things
he's been able to observe watch me,
how I handle certain maneuvers
or how I'm absorbing things, and
we're able to debrief about it later.
So obviously, we're still
talking it through with my instructor,
but him and I have been able
to go into more depth later or we're
able to revisit topics more
because he's seen the whole entire
lesson and stuff.
So, yeah, that was that way.
For Instrument 2, I was able
to kind of grill him a little bit
on things or ask his advice in
certain ways or shapes or forms from.
The beginning Aaron always
asked that I sit backseat on all
of her lessons.
And so I just sit back.
I wouldn't talk at all or anything.
But the good side to that is
Erin and I can communicate on a level
and like I can, I can see her mannerisms.
I can see when she actually
gets something or doesn't.
And so afterwards when we go
home, I can be like, hey, I noticed.
Like let's talk, let's dive
into this one thing a little more.
Like I noticed maybe it didn't
fully click and she's like, oh yeah,
it didn't.
But she said it, you know,
like it was just, it's this depth
that we could go into because
of it.
Yeah.
So that was fun.
Yeah.
I was just about to ask, do
you guys feel like you have would
there since you are now a cfi,
do you think you would be able to
be her CFI for commercial or
anything else?
Do you guys have that kind of dynamic?
I mean personally, me and my
wife, there's no way I could teach
her because one, she'd be
smarter than me within like two flights
and I'd be like, I don't know
the answer to that question.
She'd be like what?
I think it was like the right
marriage therapist to be kidding.
But yeah, right.
We're playing around with the idea.
I think he may try to help me
with my question commercial and stuff
later this year.
So we're playing around with
the idea of it cuz he's honestly
like even though he's not been
my CFI technically, like he's really
taught me a lot like
throughout like the entire aviation
journey that I've had.
So yeah, I think it be fun.
I think it'd be a, a good time.
Yeah.
Good content.
You either kill each other or
because there's an argument not in
the airplane but afterwards.
Yeah, exactly.
Or you have a successful
marriage and leading maybe your therapist
influences now.
I don't know.
There's a, there's a lot of
content directions that this can
go down.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Do it for the people.
When you guys started this
account, did you think like, I mean
everyone looks.
I mean I, I truly believe that
everyone, maybe not everyone, but
most people want to be
influencers if they can.
Like I think that people
watch, you know, you doom scroll
and you're like, oh, it's kind
of like you, you just get addicted
to it.
You're like, I could probably
do that at some point in their life.
When you guys first started,
was there any kind of hesitation
to it Was there any kind of,
like, why are people watching us?
Or, like, I don't want my
friends from high school to watch
us, like, that kind of thing
starting out.
Yeah, 100%.
I felt like I had a lot of,
like, fear regarding what people.
Exactly what you said from
high school would think.
And I actually had started my
first, like, reel I ever created.
I created on my personal
account, and I was trying to, like,
make that our social media
platform on my personal.
Because I already had, like,
followers, but I was watching, like,
every person I know from high
school watch it, and it was so scary
and intimidating.
I was like, forget it.
Absolutely not.
We're making that a private account.
We're starting from scratch.
And that helped a lot because
it made me realize every person that
was following, I knew they
were following because they intentionally
wanted to follow.
And it wasn't because they
were already a part of, like, just
a personal account prior.
So that was really.
That was really key for our
headspace at the beginning.
Yeah.
Because you're right.
Like, you.
You look at everyone else and
you have those exterior pressures.
Yeah.
So it wasn't until I think
10,000 followers that we even told
our personal followings like,
that we even.
This is what we're doing.
Put a story on my personal
account or anything like that.
Like, yeah, we really wanted
to know that people were following
us for us, for the right.
For the right reason.
I get that.
Yeah.
I was terrified of.
I don't know why, of people in
high school.
What?
Like, I don't even talk to
them anymore.
It's just like, they're like,
why does Justin think he should have
a podcast?
Like, what a loser.
You know, like, that kind of thing.
So, yeah, I mean, luckily I
stepped with it and it's still going
well, but, like, just like the
first probably six months of it,
just doing it, getting over
that fear.
Same thing.
I never posted anything to my
personal, probably until like a year
or two.
And it was just like, I still.
Now I don't.
I think somehow Facebook
linked my pilot.
The pilot account with my
personal profile on Facebook.
And it just started, like,
sharing everything I was posting.
And I started getting, like, likes.
I was like, wait, how do you know?
Don't do that.
And I think I still even do
this moment.
I unlinked it.
So, like, there's still a
separation of everything where I
don't really want anyone from,
like, high school or, I mean, college.
I don't care about high school.
Just, like, thinking that I'm
weird for trying this or doing it
even Though I like
successfully done it for a little
bit, it's just like, still
like a mental block that I have in
my head that I can't get past,
which is funny.
100, 100.
Did you have people that you
were like, watching as your example
or how did you press through that?
Like, what was your way to get
through that first six months or
a year?
It just kind of just kept
building, I'd say, like, kind of
like you guys said, like,
people are following you for you.
I just kept posting and everyone.
I just get more DMs, like,
hey, like, I actually like your podcast.
I like this.
Or you should interview them.
And I just kept interviewing
the next person they recommended
and just kept building,
building, building and building.
And then pilot Maria, who was
like an OG influencer back in the
day.
She flies for Ryanair.
She gave me a shout out and
then I got a bunch of followers in
that.
Then I interviewed her and it
kind of just from there just got
more.
More interviews as it went and
just kept going.
Well and just kind of put my
head down and just went all in, essentially.
I always tell people when they're.
When they're getting into
content creation or they want to
do something, a lot of times,
like the people that make it to where
you are, to where I am or
whoever you look up to, it's because
they never stopped.
Like, people stop and you
never know.
It's kind of like that meme
where it's like, you know, the guy
in the minefield that's like
hammering away and the money's like
one inch away and he starts
walking away.
It's like you don't know how
close you are until you become more
comfortable under the camera
before you are actually the one that
people want to follow.
And.
Well, finally watch your stuff.
It takes a while to do it.
Especially now.
I feel like it's so saturated
with people trying to do it.
But you, I think you just have
to be consistent, have to keep going.
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I'm.
I'm guessing you guys would
agree as well.
But yeah, we talked off before.
The first time we ever met was
there is this tree that Chris from
Angle of Attack claims is his
tree at eaa.
Like, I think he's probably
carved his name in it by now, but
it's.
It's near the Chick Fil A and he.
I think you guys already
sitting there.
And I walked up where to meet Chris.
Longtime friends haven't
talked to him in a while.
Chris, you need to make that Happen.
But he was like, hey, this is
Aaron Nepal.
And I was like, I have seen
you guys because, like, you posted
this video.
I don't.
One of your friends was
running after an airplane.
I can't remember what the
caption was, but it was something
along the lines of, like, a
guy starting up an airplane that
she was just, like, sprinting after.
And I remember watching a
couple of times, like, actually,
like, laughing out loud.
I was like, oh, my gosh.
These are you guys.
That's cool.
But I think it was, like,
right around when you guys were starting
out, right?
Yeah.
That's why it's funny you
bring it up because I'm like, gosh,
our content's so different.
Yeah, but that's the evolution
of making content.
Right?
Like, you.
You eventually kind of hone
into the brand that you want.
At first, you're kind of just,
like, posting stuff for fun.
You're posting stuff that you
think is interesting, and then when
people follow you and comment,
and then now you're building a bear
hawk, and now you kind of,
like, are honing into what you want
your brand to be.
So it's kind of fun to see the
evolution of everything.
Yeah.
100%.
100%.
That piece of content, it.
It did hit right before oshkosh.
So we got so many people were
like, oh, you had the girl running
after the plane.
Like, that was.
Yeah.
Was that year one for us at
osh, too?
Yeah, that was our first year
at osh.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Was that like, three years ago?
Yeah, three years ago.
Three years.
Yeah.
Dang.
Long time.
Speaking of that tree, though,
we got to get a plaque on there or
something, right?
I think Chris has bought.
Bought space in that tree.
I guarantee it.
If he hasn't, he should.
He's got to have his own real.
Estate over Chris's tree.
Ye.
And his budd, his buddy Cam Cameron.
Cam.
I can't remember his name.
Cameron's over there, too.
Yeah.
That.
They own that tree.
There's nothing you can do
about it now.
It's too late.
It's like, you know, you buy a
plaque, like, right by the brown
arch, where you got to pay,
like, 1200 bucks.
Chris is going to charge you
1,200 bucks to put a plaque on that
tree.
Exactly.
There's a side income.
There we go.
Yeah, Right?
I know.
Yeah.
You got to find a piece of
land on EAA and start charging money
till they kick you out.
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today's podcast to hear from.
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But yeah.
So let's kind of talk into
what a lot of people kind of love
about what you guys are doing
right now.
And that is the plane you're building.
So why don't you kind of share
why what you chose, like the process
of why not just buy a 180,
182, kind of share your whole thoughts
and why you went down this route.
Yeah.
Back when Aaron started
training or we both were kind of
training together, we started
looking at planes like we knew we
wanted a plane to take us
places to do, to open the door to
more memories, to more
experiences across the country.
And like our cli.
Our, our mission for our plane
was we wanted to go fast, but we
wanted it to be able to go
slow and land anywhere.
And we didn't want a plane to
like limit us to where we could go.
We wanted just a plane that
could do everything.
And that miracle plane seemed
to not be out there.
And we looked for like two years.
Yeah, we got our tailwheel
endorsements what a year and a half
ago.
So something like that.
And that ruined us.
Like we knew we wanted a tail
wheel after that.
So then we started looking.
Initially we were looking at
Moonies because they could go fast
and they were super fuel efficient.
And then we started looking at
180s Cessna 180s Cessna 185s as we
got our tail wheel.
And we actually offered on
several of those.
Yeah.
But, but the thing that like
kept happening when we would offer,
we'd start finding damage
history or like a gray area in the
60 year.
The 60 year past of that
plane, and I don't know, nothing
ever ended up coming to
fruition with, with, with our offers.
And it was last year, this
time last year, it was Oshkosh, last
year that we were walking
across Bearhawk's tent and we saw
this plaque for a plane, the
Bearhawk 5, that said it can.
It, like, cruises at 160 miles
an hour.
It stalls at 42 miles an hour.
It can carry things.
£3,000 takes off and lands in 200ft.
Aaron and I are just like,
scratching our heads.
We're like, what is this?
There's no way this is a real plane.
I had never heard of it before
at the time.
Yeah.
And at that point, we had
started being introduced into the
experimental world of being
able to build your own plane.
But it was really only from Carson.
Where were they who had become
a friend of ours.
And he was really trying to
sprinkled into us like, guys, you
should build.
And we were like, carson, love
you dearly.
But I don't want to dedicate
like half my life to building a plane
because it's not going to take
me three years.
It's going to take me like 30.
So I also don't trust myself
to build an airplane.
Yeah, I agree.
Exactly.
I was like, we're not riveting
out here.
Yeah.
I was like, we're not going to
be flying straight or level ever
if Erin, like, builds it herself.
So it's going to fall apart on
the first flight.
Take off.
Oh, no.
Yeah.
So we found bear hawk and we,
like, we're hearing all these things,
specs.
And we're like, this is insane.
And I was like, but Paul,
like, low key.
Let's be real.
We're not going to be able to
build a plane.
And they had just implemented
this past year a build assist program.
And like, you only needed for
technically the build assist two
weeks to come for the build.
So they were.
They usually have people come
for a week at the beginning and a
weekend at the end.
And it gives you an
opportunity to get your hands involved
in a little bit of everything,
whether it being like fabric, whether
it being like wiring and just
all that jazz.
But we talked to the owners
and we were like, well, we'd kind
of love to be a part of the
whole process as long as we still
have a professional guiding us
along the way.
So the past five months, we've
been out in Oklahoma building our
Bearhawk 5, and it's been kind
of like, you know, when you go to
a gym and you have A personal trainer.
And they're like, this is what
you're doing for today.
This is how you do it.
Now go replicate it.
That's what our time out here
has been.
It's like, we'll show up to
the shop at 8am they'll be like,
this is what you're doing today.
This is how you do it.
Now go do it.
And of course, Aaron screws up
and they have to fix it, but, like,
we go do it.
Yeah, you mess it up.
They're like, no, no.
Yeah.
Exactly the number of times we
hear in the shop like, no, no, no,
no.
Crap.
What are we doing?
Sorry, sorry.
Job.
Everything.
Yeah.
So now that you're done with
this build, do you feel confident
enough that you could build
your own airplane, or would you still
go with a builder assist program?
Oh, yeah, I'd still go with
the builder assist.
I think Paul mentioned the
other day that he thinks he could.
It would take a lot longer and
you'd have to have a lot more patience
and stuff.
And you have to be willing to
research a lot more because it's
so easy.
It's so nice to have someone
to be like, this is exactly how you
do it.
Right then.
And case in point.
So when you put on your prop
hub, like the backing plate to your
propeller, there's spacers
that go on there.
And there is one night, like
1am like two weeks before Oshkosh
that we were tossing on our propeller.
And Virgil's like, okay, we
need three of these spacers.
Bam, bam, bam.
And I was like, how do you
know that?
Like, exactly how many spacers?
And like, well, it actually
took me like two weeks of research
to figure this out and to get
the spacing just right.
And there's little things like
that all throughout the build that
could you do it 100%.
It would just take you a lot
more time.
And so, like, something so
simple as him knowing three washers
saves the US two weeks, you know?
So can you imagine researching
something for two weeks for three
spacers?
I know.
You're just like.
And before.
Yeah, Right?
Yeah.
Hey, hey.
Chat GBT how do I build five?
I need step by step
instructions, please.
The future's here.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
That's.
Yeah.
I mean, kudos to you guys for
doing that because, I mean, everyone
wants a plane that can fly
fast, a plane that can land slow,
and a plane that can do
everything you want.
And it sounds like you usually
have to make sacrifices when you're
buying airplanes.
And like you said, you go Back
and you look at planes and it's like,
well, the logbook was lost for
five years.
Like, what do you mean the
logbook was lost for five years?
Like, what did you do?
Yeah, where did this fuel tank
come from?
I don't know exactly.
But yeah.
And not, not.
I mean, in the market is crazy.
Like a 182 is too.
Like, you can spend 250 grand
on a 1957 182.
It's like, what am I doing
with my life right now?
So building sounds like a
fantastic idea.
And your Bearhawk 6, a shout
out to Bear Hawk.
If you guys listening to this,
the Bearhawk 5, I should say, I didn't
realize there was a 1, 2, 3
and 4 before this.
Or did they just start off
coming out the line like we're doing
the Bearhawk 5.
I know, right?
Yeah.
And it's a six seater, so
it's, you know, kind of.
Wait, it's a six seater?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Really?
We don't have the six seats and.
Just like, I don't remember
seeing six seats.
Yeah, yeah.
That's cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like, maybe I should buy
a Bear Hawk.
I don't know.
I think.
I'm just kidding.
Is that what you guys call yourselves?
The Flock of Hawks is what it is.
Oh, my God.
We're bringing that name onto
it, I guess.
Yeah.
I love it.
I don't know if we can trust
you guys with naming.
We'll let it slide.
No, I'm just kidding.
But no, it's.
It's really cool.
Especially being able to build
your own airplane.
It seems like kind of what a
lot of people are getting into.
You know, you got Josh and
Chelsea from Aviation 101.
They're building their own
sling TSI.
JP built a sling out.
Carson did his Sling Flight
shops, did his RV.
I don't know, camera with RV8,
maybe a camera it is, but it seems
to be kind of coming forward
and you're in.
More people are okay with
building it and it probably has to
do with what influencers are
doing, what content creators are
doing, and also just what the
market's doing with the prices and
what you can get with your money.
You can probably get a lot
more of an airplane for your money
if you are willing to put the
time in to build it.
And build us as programs are
amazing because like we said, no
one's going to trust me.
I think you'd agree that no
one would trust you guys to build
a plane from zero to a plane
all by yourselves.
I feel like I still can't.
Shouldn't be able to drive a
car by myself.
That was a joke.
Um, but it's, it's, it's great
to have those, those programs, um,
and experimental also.
You can do so much more with
the airplane without having to fully
worry about the FAA and what
they want to say.
Um, so that's really cool.
I mean your avionics looked amazing.
I remember I went to the bear
hawk tent and I was looking in.
I, I just expected to be kind
of like full glass Garmin.
So when you went with your
avionics, was this more of a tailored
to what you wanted?
Because they were different
than what they had kind of shown.
At least the one plane that I saw.
Yeah, we definitely like, I
had, I had certain things I, I really
wanted like hard ifr.
Both Aaron and I instrument
rated pilots.
Like we wanted to fly hard IFR
and have the ability in the plane
and then we wanted it to be
like symmetrical so you know, look
nice.
Which.
That, that was amazing.
And then there were certain,
there were certain pieces of equipment
in there like the height
advisor and the angle of attack that
I really wanted.
As we go backcountry, as we
start to explore a bit more, those
are just safety pieces that to
me are amazing.
And they're totally cheating.
Like it makes it so easy to
understand like how far you are from
the ground and where you are
on your angle of attack and stuff.
So.
Yeah.
And do you have kind of like
the list of what Garmin you actually
went with?
Like do you.
Can you name off all the.
The TSI, like the six letter number?
Oh yeah, yeah.
We have dual G3X's we have the
GTN 750XI.
We have the GFC 500 autopilot
dual G5s.
And then the GHA 15 is the
height advisor, the angle attack.
That's a lot of the bulk of it
right there.
Yeah.
And what was the wiring like
for all that?
Do you posted?
I can't remember.
I don't think.
I don't remember the video
because I just remember you posting
about wiring your avionics
together and I can't remember.
It was really easy or if it
was really hard.
I imagine it was really hard.
But you probably get a few
different answers to all the ones.
Yeah.
Let's hear it.
I want to hear it.
Well, I got released from
wiring like two days in, so.
All right.
So Aaron is not wiring the
next airplane.
Got it.
I wired something wrong.
I don't even know terminology
for what I Wired it to probably.
Paul could probably tell you.
But I ended up putting on one
of the adapter things backward.
And yeah, if Bearhawk didn't
have a spare here in the shop, I
don't know if we would have
made a.
That's amazing.
We like, walk over.
Oh, this is.
And I thought I was doing so
good too.
They left me alone for like an
hour and I was going to town.
Well, no, I went to town the
wrong way.
Apparently she recorded all of
this too.
So you see the flip, like at
the beginning, she's like, oh, my
gosh, we just crashed.
We just crashed this.
I'm getting the hang of it.
And then at the end, I'm going
to do more.
What else can I wire?
I'm like, hire me on Garmin.
Yeah, yeah, you're thinking of
like your next account, Aaron Wires.
Or you just wire airplanes
together and it's like, here we go,
that's cool.
But Paul, like, honestly, he
got a hang of it so quick.
Like, that's good.
Yeah, it just came so
naturally to you.
I don't know, like, how you
caught onto it so quick, but you
really did.
Yeah, I mean, it's just like fabric.
It's just like anything else
in the plane build.
I feel it's.
It's a skill that you, you
learn and as after a day or two of
doing it, you like.
Like it all just clicks and
makes sense.
Yeah.
At least that's my experience.
Like, the wiring diagrams
initially looked like a different
language, but then.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And as you started to walk
through just one diagram, like a
simple diagram, you figure out
like, oh, this just goes to this,
and you start to translate it
into real world application and then
it just all starts working.
And that was actually really fun.
Like, to me, after we
installed everything, there were
a couple changes I wanted to
make and I knew the wiring diagram,
so I could actually just go
and, okay, I'm just gonna tie into
this to make this run work for whatever.
And I was able to start
modifying things and.
Yeah, look at you now.
You're a pro.
I know.
It was really fun though.
I. I thoroughly enjoyed wiring.
It was.
It was easier than I thought
it was going to be.
There's.
They're fairly simple, simple skills.
I think the hardest part is
understanding the wired wiring diagram
and like starting to learn
that language.
But once that's done, I mean,
actually terminating wires and connectors,
that's pretty simple stuff.
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Yeah.
Totally agree.
I say that now, but, like,
there's tons of videos online.
Like, Even.
Yeah, yeah, Tons of people.
Several people have made a lot
of videos about that stuff.
So what was the stress, like,
of the timeline of Oshkosh?
What was the kind of like, I'm
sure as you started, you know, you're
like, oh, we got plenty of time.
We got plenty of time.
But then now you're like, holy
smokes, like, this is happening soon.
Because it was, I mean, you
got like certified to fly like a
week before, right?
Like, not even was it.
Yeah, it was like a week before.
Yeah, we got our airworthiness certificate.
Airworthiness was Monday.
First flight was Tuesday.
And then we finished phase one
flight testing at 8:30pm Friday.
And then we left for OSH, 8am
Saturday morning.
Was there any kind of like
nerves going on, like in the first
flight or even like your first
flight going to Oshkosh?
Like, did it remind yourself,
like, hey, this plane has like 7
hours on it, 10 hours on it?
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
When I lined up on the Runway
to take off for the first time, the
thoughts going through my head
of like, man, I really hope the ailerons
are connected.
Right.
Or like, I don't know anyone else.
Want to fly this for the first time.
Like, I mean, I can take the.
I'm really good at taking
videos of stuff.
Come on, just let me know.
It was nice though, because
Virgil, the owner of Bear Hawk, like,
he's obviously flown Bear
Hawks for years and so him and Paul
were able to do the first
flight together.
So even though Paul did the
takeoff and landing, having someone
who was able to sit like,
right seat, who knows the plane so
well, I think provided some
sort of like, reassurance and like,
okay, we'll be okay if
something happens.
Like, when in doubt, your
controls, you can take over.
Yeah.
And so I really focused in on
the flying.
And then he was watching all
the engine instruments and trying
to understand how everything's
working well.
And it was.
I was so glad he was there.
Our oil temperature actually
started spiking pretty bad on the
first flight.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
And so we came into land after
like 10 minutes.
Like, it was a fairly short
first flight.
And.
And then we landed.
We had to add a second oil
cooler and rearrange some stuff.
But.
But yeah, I was glad he was
there because he was able to help
monitor this massive engine
right in front of us.
Well.
So, yeah.
All right, so now that you're
done with the build, what are some,
like, do's that you would do again?
And what are some don'ts that
you would not do again or, like,
what would you change?
And what were you.
What did you think was successful?
Oh, that's a good question.
That is.
Boom.
Dues.
I don't know.
I would, like, do the.
I'm biased, but do the build
assist program.
Yeah, I think.
And also not only to have,
like, an expert helping you along
the way, but being able to be
in a shop that they are, like, producing
bearhawks constantly.
We were able to, as we planned
out our bear hawk, as we went with
the build, able to look at
other bear hawks to see visually,
like, how things were supposed
to look.
So even as we were doing
fabric or learning how to, like,
fabric.
I don't know, certain tail
feathers, we were able to look at
another guy's plane that it
had just been done and see how it
was being cut or how it was
being folded.
And so it was even nice in
that way to be able to have another
visual reference or another
reference for what it's supposed
to look like down the road.
Because sometimes it's so hard
to visualize you're making all these
decisions, like.
Of, like, not just, like, when
we first got into it, I thought it
was just, like, paint scheme,
and then you pick the interior colors
and you're good.
It's like, no, there's so much
design element that goes into this.
And then on top of that, it's.
Yeah, you're fabricing the
airplane, which affects paint and
stuff and how it looks on your plane.
So being able to have other
people planes for reference at the
shop that you're working at
has been a world of a difference.
And I was super overwhelmed
when we.
When we, like, signed on the
dotted line.
It was happening.
I was so overwhelmed by the
amount of decisions that were coming
our way.
Like, in my head, I'm like,
what brakes do we have?
What wheels do we have?
Like, all of these things.
And so I think if I could talk
to Paul back then, I'd be like, hey,
take it a day at a time.
Because these.
These decisions don't have to
be made all at the beginning.
Like, there's some big
decisions you have to make at the
beginning.
But, like, the paint colors,
we waited a while for that.
You know, like, there's a lot
of little things that can come in
time.
And so that was.
Yeah, that was a lot of over.
Overwhelm.
Right.
Right at the beginning.
That didn't need to be there.
Yeah.
And also, I think, like,
talking to the experts a little bit
more.
Like, I mean, we do that
throughout the entirety but that
helps a ton.
Like, everyone is like, such
an expert in their niche.
So you have, like, guys that
just know breaks and like, no, like
wheels really well.
And you have guys that, like,
are experts in designing paint schemes.
And so finding experts that
can help, like, support you in bringing
your vision to life has just
been a world of a difference.
So it's not just all on your
shoulders of having to learn things
or design things yourself.
And I think to that point you
mentioned that there's almost, almost
a pull towards experimental
aviation now.
And we see this trend, or I've
kind of watched this trend and experienced
this over the build is you.
A while back, experimental was
scratch builders, and then it went
to kit builders.
And now it's trending towards
builder assists.
And so now there's so many
more resources out there for all
of us to do this well and
write and to have somebody guiding
us along the process that it
does make it way more accessible
now.
Yeah, I met a couple of
scratch builders at Oshkosh and I'm
like, you are a real builder.
That is so cool that you're
doing that.
I could, I couldn't, like,
yeah, hard pass.
Like I said I would be.
So, like, putting my family in
the plane, be like, I think I messed
up the third rivet.
Like, I don't feel comfortable.
Someone else please do this.
Yeah.
Say a builder assist is huge.
And I'm sure the companies
like it too, because that way they
can kind of have some better
quality control of how things are
going.
And, you know, they want their
planes to fly well.
They don't want their
airplanes being in the news.
So, I mean, it's a, it's a
great thing, I think, for everyone
to have this and have this opportunity.
What was kind of the, the best
moment, like, was it when you flipped
on your avionics for the first
time to make sure, like, you saw
the Garmin background to make
sure everything works.
Was it the first flight?
Was it actually landing in Oshkosh?
Kind of like talk about the.
When you feel like you were
done or feel like this is actually
working.
Yeah, I think it's definitely
landing at Oshkosh.
We have never even flown into
Oshkosh before.
And the fact that last year,
like 2024 OSH, we had discovered
bear hawk and we had been
like, searching for a plane for years,
had offered on a plane for years.
And honestly, I think what a
lot of people don't see because they
see fast forward things
through social media because sometimes
we weren't Sharing all the
offers we were doing because we didn't
want to just drag people along
in it.
But we were starting to, at
that point prior to OSH24, feel a
little defeated of like, I
don't know if we're ever going to
find the perfect plane for us.
And we had started hearing
from people like, yeah, just like,
get one.
You'll probably have to settle
on something.
It's not going to be your
dream or anything.
And flying into OSH this year
I think was such a surreal moment
because not only was it like
full circle of like, this is where
everything began for the
process of building our own plane,
but it was also like we met
some of the people who've inspired
us in aviation and have become
good friends throughout the entirety
of this process, like JP and
Carson and have just been such leaders
and guiders in the aviation
industry, but has also become such
good mentors and friends of ours.
We were there upon our arrival
and we didn't even tell them when
we were arriving in because we
had just finished like flight testing
the day before.
And so we were like, I don't
know, this may not, we may not make
it to osha.
Can you actually come pick us
up, please?
And like, we didn't, we just
didn't say anything to anyone.
We just started flying in and
they were there like, not only like
recording us coming in, but
like there to celebrate with us.
And it was just like such an
emotional, like surreal thing of
getting to be with our people
that also have been so encouraging
and so inspirational.
Inspiring throughout like this
entire process.
Yeah.
So what's next?
What's next for the Bearhawk?
What's next for Tina?
What's next for kind of you guys?
Dude, yeah, go ahead.
Well, we're gonna be building
out the back of Tina.
So she is a six seat aircraft.
We're gonna be taking out our
back two seats.
So it's just the two pilot seats.
And we're gonna be building
her into a lightweight modular camper
plane.
Oh, sick.
Yes.
So we're super, super excited
about that.
That's also when we were
looking for planes.
Our whole dream has been to
live a nomadic lifestyle on the road
because travel has been
something that's inspired us in everything
we do.
Travel nurse.
Man.
Back when Aaron and I were
dating, we, I like, was visiting
her house in Pennsylvania and
I was talking to her mom in the backyard
and I was like, man, I think I
want to buy a camper van and travel
around.
And she was like, you're not
buying a Camper van.
Like, you will not make my
daughter live out of a van.
I will not do that.
So we're settling for a camper plane.
I'll say you're right.
I will not do that, but I will
get an airplane.
Exactly.
It's like, wait, wait, I'll do
the van now.
Please let her do the van.
Yeah, yeah.
Aaron, what does your family
think about this now?
Like, what do they think about aviation?
Have they kind of fully kind
of accepted that this is kind of
like what you're gonna do, or
they still kind of like, are you
sure about the airplanes?
Yeah, no, they're still so excited.
It's so funny because they
get, like, hesitant about flying
themselves, but, like, they're
so supportive and, like, excited
for us in, like, this journey
and chapter and.
Yeah, yeah, we really, we.
We honestly have, like, really
good support in everything we do,
so.
Yeah.
Yeah, Sweet.
We'll talk a little.
Like, what's the.
What is a modular camping kind
of setup look like in a Bear Hawk?
Are you allowed to say?
Or is it still like.
We don't know yet.
We're trying to figure it out.
We're, we're super excited for it.
So we've kind of planned out a
way to make.
The back is going to have L
track in it.
If you're, if you've ever,
like, sat on a, an airliner and you
look at the seat.
Excuse me, you look at the
floors, all the seats are like, locked
into track.
It's kind of like L track.
And we're gonna put that in
the back.
So we're, we're putting three
strips of it in the back.
And then everything we're
linking into the back is modular
so we can, like, take it in
and out.
So we're gonna have a small
kitchen at the far aft of our.
The compartment.
We're gonna have a fridge in there.
We have Starlink.
We have a battery pack storage
for our belongings.
And then we're actually, we're
putting a shower in our left wing,
which.
Yeah, that'll be fun.
And then we're adding a belly
pot as well to add water and, and,
and extra fuel as well.
So what, what does it look
like for, like, useful load.
Like, what is the useful load
of a Bearhawk in general?
And is this kind of in.
Is this something that's been
done before?
Are you going to be the first
ones to do it too?
Yeah, when we, when we started
this, we hadn't found anyone that
had done before, but a couple
were done back in the 70s.
That we've found over the
course of this build.
And they were in large like
twin engine planes.
So in a single engine plane.
We haven't necessarily seen
this before.
Our useful load.
So Tina is a big girl.
She is.
Let's see.
She's a fat lard.
She's a foul art.
She's 1670 pounds empty.
And so she has 1330 pounds useful.
Oh, sick.
Yeah.
We're expecting the build out.
It's going to take about 100,
150 pounds total.
Including everything.
The fridge, the battery, everything.
Is that with like full tank of
water and everything too?
Yeah.
With the.
If we do a 30 gallon full tank
that's almost 300 pounds on there.
Yeah.
But the great thing is if.
If we ever need to get out of
somewhere and we can't have the weight,
we can just chop it, you know,
we can smash it somewhere and then
we can still use the plane.
Nothing is permanently fixed
in the plane.
Just don't shower for a week.
You'll be fine.
Exactly.
Aaron's like, no.
Like I need my showers.
Yeah, yeah.
With, with the build out is
this like opportunity?
Do you see yourself like doing
a series like flying across the country,
flying across North America
like visiting different countries
or do you think this is going
to be like a nomadic USA airplane
Or like what's kind of the
plan for the flying?
Yeah, I think we're starting
in the US for sure to.
To.
To travel around a bit.
We're really motivated both
Aaron and I by new experiences and
exploring new things like
seeking new adventures for ourselves.
And I think that first and
foremost that's where we're going
to be taking this.
So exploring, finding the
coolest things to do in different
states around the U.S. maybe
things that haven't been explored
much.
That's really what drives us.
So that'll be the first while
in Tina for sure.
Yeah.
In Paddington.
That's awesome.
I mean it just sounds fun.
Sounds like it fits you guys
personalities extremely well.
And like we talked about how
it's really hard to find an airplane
that can do everything you want.
It sounds like you have gotten
as close as you possibly can for
something like that.
So it's really great that you
guys are able to find a team and
builder assist and an airplane
that can do that.
And it's kind of a support
system that.
That helps you out with that
as well.
Kind of sticking to the
avionics part just because I love
avionics.
Is there one piece you
mentioned kind of the radio altimeter
that they have the ability For
Ga. What is kind of the most exciting
Garmin product that you have
that you're just super excited about
and just like being able to
use for your mission and what you
specifically want to do when
you're flying?
Yeah, I think it's a combo of
a few pieces that all work together
really well.
So we have the Sirius XM weather.
We already were using that a
ton on our way up to Oshkosh and
to be able to have that on the
interface, we have it on our 750XI.
To have that live, I think it
was a two minute delay like that
is so valuable as we're flying
wherever we will be.
I think that in conjunction
with the height advisor with the
angle of attack, it really
does make our approaches, our landings,
even our takeoffs a lot safer.
And we have a lot more
information at our fingertips.
And yeah, I think that's.
Those are the things that I'm
really, really excited for.
I mean, these avionics can do
literally anything, right?
Like, there are so many
features in these.
I feel like we could do a full
podcast just on the avionics alone.
Like, there's so much to talk about.
Kyle's like, done do it.
No, I agree.
And one of the cool things, I
used to fly corporate, I used to
fly latitude, had a G5000 when
I used to go out to Garmin, you know,
they throw me in a simulator
with a G1000 and it's almost.
I mean it's pretty similar.
Like I felt very comfortable
going from each.
Each one put you in a 430, a 530.
I used to fly with.
Like you can just tell where
everything was built and they want
everything to kind of like you
want to be able to go from a 430
to 530 to whatever the next
avionics is and feel very comfortable
in what you're doing.
And that was definitely the
case when I, when I kept upgrading
and kept going to new equipment.
Now I fly 737 and there's no
Garmin and everyone.
So I'm just like, oh man, it'd
be really nice to have like that
moving map that I had or like
any kind of map.
That'd be great.
Yeah, especially SiriusXM too.
You're like pulling your iPad
just to have the.
I know.
Yeah, it's like exactly.
Yeah, I know.
It's.
Yeah, it's definitely been.
Been wild not having all the
Garmin that I'm used to, but it still
flies.
It's amazing.
Who thought?
Yeah, truly.
Yep.
But that's cool.
Like I said, I'm really
excited for you guys.
I think the build is awesome.
I think it was great for
Bearhawk too.
Right.
I think there's a lot of good
publicity for them too.
And people seeing that
airplane front and center at the
Garmin booth.
And if you're wearing Oshkosh,
you need to go.
It's great that the night show
is unbelievable.
So if you need to go, just go
for one day.
Wednesday night or Saturday
night air show.
It was a blast.
It was a lot and a lot of fun.
So hopefully next time we can
see each other and actually you should
come fly to North Carolina and
I, since you're going to have a two
seater plan, I'll just drive
to meet you guys wherever you go.
But there's a really cool
barbecue place called BQ1.
It's called the Pig and Pig.
It burnt down a couple years
ago, but they built it back up.
But it's a really cool fly in
barbecue restaurant that's arguably
some of the best barbecue
you'll ever have.
So you should put that on your list.
And of course you got to go to
the first in flight airport.
Everyone's got to go there.
Yeah.
If there's anyone from Ohio
listening, I'm sorry, but North Carolina
is first in flight.
It is the birthplace of air aviation.
You can fight me in the Justin
over here.
Just stirring the pot.
I will die on that hill.
North Carolina is the way.
But yeah.
Aaron, Paul, the last question
I have, I will not lie, we did kind
of finish and I was like, I
forgot to ask this question, but
I'm gonna ask anyways.
But it's really cool seeing
you guys do this together.
You know, there's a lot of
influencers out there, but not necessarily
a couple influencers in aviation.
But I think it'd be really cool.
Cool to see.
You know what?
You guys are most proud of
each other in aviation.
So Paul, I'm going to make you
go first just because you are the
guy you need to do it first.
And then Aaron, you can go next.
Yeah, this one's.
I feel really easy.
Aaron.
She.
She didn't grow up around
anything mechanical.
Like she didn't have any
understanding of anything engine
related.
Like ask her tire pressure.
And she probably asked me to
do it, like.
And seeing her start from zero
in aviation not knowing anything
about aviation to now being
where she's at and continuing to
press through all the barriers
of learning everything from scratch,
it's been awesome to watch.
It's been really fun for me to
see her push herself in a way that
a lot of people.
I mean, it's a really tough
road to get to where she's at.
And it's been amazing to see
your progress push through all the
barriers to get to where she
is over the last three years and
yeah, work so hard at
something that, that she loves.
So love it.
Wow.
Good luck.
You make me email on the podcast.
Justin start crying.
Yeah, that was my part done.
Good luck following that one out.
Yeah, exactly.
I think the thing I'm most
proud about with Paul is the amount
of like time and research.
And also I guess it's kind of
the same thing but different, like
hard work.
He's pouring into this.
A lot of people like stop when
the clock ends 9 to 5 grind.
And like everyone thinks, oh,
you probably just busted it out at
2am every single night right
before Osh.
But it was like he was doing
that back in March when we started
the build.
And so I'm really proud of
like, like how dedicated he is for
our goals and for our plane
and also all the research he's done
into it and how much he's like divedo.
Dived into things.
Love it.
Yeah, man.
Perfect.
When I started talking here,
we're not gonna go to our there.
We're just gonna.
I know.
Just.
I actually wrote all this down.
So yeah, I'm taking notes all
the time.
Did not laugh at Aaron's joke.
That's all I have for you guys.
I appreciate you coming on.
It's been a lot of fun talking
with you guys, getting to know you
a little bit better and I love
what you're doing and I'm really
excited for.
To see how Tina is built out
and hopefully changing the name,
but I'll say it for now.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Thanks.
Well, that's a wrap on today's podcast.
Thank you so much for
listening to the podcast.
If you enjoyed it, please go
ahead and leave us a review on itunes.
On Spotify, we're so close to
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So that's what 2000 reviews
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Prefer you leave a 5 star
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some comments, still leave a
five star review and then email me
what your comments are.
But Avas, I hope you're having
a great day.
Bear, Hawk, you know, hit me up.
Let's build a podcast airplane.
How sick would that be?
But in all seriousness, I, I
would love to have an airplane.
I think right now on the top
of my mind in the list is a Stinson
10082 or dash 3.
We'll see.
We'll kind of see how what the
future holds and what life is going
to give us.
But we're looking forward to
to have an airplane with Christina
and Emma and I and it's going
to be a lot of fun.
Hopefully an airplane that
travels North Carolina really well.
Because as we talk about it, I
think North Carolina is a great state
for general aviation.
There's a lot of fun stuff
going on.
There's a really cool airport
up by the lake under RDU Charlie
and there's a new airport that
was just bought and getting rebuilt
not too far from where I live.
So very, very excited to see
what the future of general aviation
is going to be in North
Carolina and hopefully we can build
a really great community.
That's a lot of yapping.
This podcast is officially
over right now, but I appreciate
you listening.
Leave a review Let me know on
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I hope you guys have a great
day and as always, happy flying Pilot
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