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If you could ask God one question what would it be? The “Why God Why” podcast is dedicated to exploring the questions that matter most in your life.
Deep questions often don’t have easy answers. We realize that we won’t solve all the world’s problems in one podcast. Our goal is to share our life experience, interview knowledgeable guests and look at how Jesus might interact with our concerns. We also hope to have a ton of fun in the process because even though the issues might be serious, it doesn’t mean that we always need to be.
No matter where you are on your spiritual journey, we are honored to have you with us!
>> John Iamaio: Welcome back, everybody, to why, God? Why. I'm John Iamaio I'm here with Amanda D'Angelo.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Hello, everyone.
>> John Iamaio: I call her D'Angelo. Yep, that's all we need to call her. And, our special friends Darren and Anne are with us today. Welcome, guys.
>> Ann Ielapi: Thank you.
>> John Iamaio: Glad to have you with us.
>> Ann Ielapi: thanks for having us.
>> John Iamaio: Yeah, yeah. As we explore the topics today, I'm gonna call it, why does the church feel. Why does it feel like the church devalues singleness? I'll phrase it that way. Why does it feel like the church devalues singleness? And so we're gonna explore that together. We've all been single at one point in our lives. and you guys are currently single, so that's nice.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Except for Anne.
>> Ann Ielapi: Married.
>> John Iamaio: Ann's married now, so that's married. That's, you know, not a part of it.
>> Ann Ielapi: Relatively new. Only about two years.
>> John Iamaio: Two years. Okay, so this is fresh. Yes, this is fresh. Good. Okay. In Dangelo, two years.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Same two years. We were just talking about this, right?
>> Daron Ladson: Yep.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Just celebrated two years of marital bliss. Listen, first year is hard. First year was tough.
>> John Iamaio: Yes.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Yep. But now it's. I'm very grateful.
>> John Iamaio: Now you're just living in bliss. Oh, it's great.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Love, little Nikki D'Angelo.
>> John Iamaio: Yeah, you have a great story, too. So I hope that you can weave some of your story into this as well, because your singleness story is really powerful.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: I feel like I have a heart for people who are single and truly take time to wait for, their spouse.
>> Daron Ladson: Gotcha.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Like, I really. So I'm grateful to be a part of this conversation. I was like, I want in for this one, for sure.
>> John Iamaio: Yeah. I think your voice is super, super valuable here. And I'm just a dude who's been married for 25 years and wears hawaiian shirts now, so that's another level, though.
>> Daron Ladson: That's cool.
>> Ann Ielapi: The mark of wisdom. Hawaiian shirts.
>> John Iamaio: I think it's in the Bible somewhere. Yeah. For those of you, not watching at home, if you're just listening to this, today was a glorious day, and I was just grilling before this, so, I had to wear the appropriate grilling outfit.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: It calls for a hawaiian shirt.
>> John Iamaio: It does.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Yeah.
>> John Iamaio: You gotta get into it. You gotta get into it.
>> Daron Ladson: It's summertime.
>> John Iamaio: That's right. That's right.
>> Daron Ladson: Like equals Hawaii. You know what I mean?
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Right?
>> Daron Ladson: It's beautiful.
>> John Iamaio: So, anyway, let's jump into this topic about singleness in the church. And, Darren, it's kind of funny, you and me we had this conversation.
>> Daron Ladson: Yes.
>> John Iamaio: Oh, I don't know, three weeks ago or so, something like that. Baby sue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was not that long ago in which you had, somebody that you were interacting with kind of saying, you know, ah, maybe everybody should just be married and maybe singleness is actually a little less than in a church environment.
>> Daron Ladson: It's still out there today.
>> John Iamaio: Right? I mean, is that correct?
>> Daron Ladson: Yes, that is correct. That is correct.
>> John Iamaio: So that type of thing was said to you, oh, for sure. Who is a single person?
>> Daron Ladson: For sure. Very much single from a church. The ring is not on the right face.
>> John Iamaio: I need to move it, apparently, from a church person.
>> Daron Ladson: Yes.
>> John Iamaio: Right.
>> Daron Ladson: Yeah.
>> John Iamaio: And you had a good dialogue about it. You were able to talk about, oh, how come? We'll get into that.
>> Daron Ladson: Yeah.
>> John Iamaio: But maybe let's back it up like you're currently not married.
>> Daron Ladson: Correct.
>> John Iamaio: Let's take the journey with you, man. Take the journey with you. How has that felt for you, navigating church spaces? Cause you've been in different church spaces. You've been in ministry now full time. What is it like in that environment to be a single person?
>> Daron Ladson: What is it like to be single in church spaces?
>> John Iamaio: Yes.
>> Daron Ladson: As me.
>> John Iamaio: Yes. As daring. Yes.
>> Daron Ladson: Oh, man. What is it like? Man, I don't. You know, I need to be quick on my feet. You know, I usually like to like. What does it mean? You know, take some time to think about it. But, it's a blessing. I will say that it is a blessing. It has been a blessing, for sure. I think now people, for whatever reason I do today, I do feel like society, for whatever reason, is changing. I do believe that. And I think people are more honoring of people's various relationship statuses for whatever the reason. I don't know. I don't know. But I do feel like society is changing. I am 37 right now. ten years ago, I don't think I would have said that. So I feel like there has been a shift. ten years ago. It's the. What's wrong with you? You know, why aren't you married yet? Are you dating somebody? You gotta be dating somebody. And what's, you know. Okay, well, she'll come. She'll come, she'll come. Just keep praying. And, you know, when I stop looking for it, then that's when the person came for me or whatever. Like those types of comments. and they give a certain type of. I think, a certain type of hope. I think the intent is usually good. I think the intent is positive. but it doesn't always take into account the person's desires or their story or their dreams or wishes, or their current reality. It's just like, oh, okay, well, you'll get there as if marriage is the next step in life. Like, you're born, then you go to school, then you go to college, then you get married and you have kids. It's just almost linear progression, which I don't know if that's always biblical. so I'm sure we're going to get more into it. I'm sure we are. So right now, I say it is a blessing. I think people, like I said, society has changed. My parents even, you know, are like, okay, Darren, you know, if you don't want to get married, don't get married.
>> John Iamaio: You know?
>> Daron Ladson: So people have backed off for the most part, which I appreciate. So now it's a blessing. A couple years ago, probably would have been a different story.
>> John Iamaio: M interesting.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Okay. M how often in those spaces are you rewriting the script for people? Like, you're actually, like, teaching them? Like, hey, this is not a bad thing. Like, I'm just waiting around to get married, or like, I'm unfulfilled until then. Like, how much do you think that played into it?
>> Daron Ladson: Oh, yeah. Then I don't think I was bold enough. I don't think I was open enough to. So I would just kind of take it on the chin and be like, oh, yeah, she'll come. Or, yeah, you know, I think now, I was actually talking with a friend recently about this, and my friend is at this point, she's, like, 25. I'm 36. You know, so she's. And she's at the point where she's like, I'm just telling people, no, I'm fine. Like, she does not. She does not want to be married at all. Like, she's made up in her mind that, you know, that for herself. So, yeah, she's, like, just telling people straight out now, how about we talk about this? So let's talk about that. We don't have to talk about. I haven't seen you in three years, and the first thing you ask me, you know what I mean? I haven't seen you in ten years. The first thing you ask me is like, where is he? Like, you know, am I more than my relationship status? You know? Like, am I to you? It's just. It's not. Yeah, yeah. So I am also becoming more open and more bold and just sometimes telling people, it's okay, it's okay. To be single. I, promise you we are all going to have it. I promise you that. My salvation is not dependent on what ring, you know, the fingers on.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Yeah, totally.
>> John Iamaio: Wow. Wow. Ooh. Yeah, there's some lines in there. I feel like that you just said that were really, really powerful.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: John listens. Well, pulled out.
>> Daron Ladson: I'm selling it to you.
>> John Iamaio: No, I mean, just, I am not my relationship status, I think is what you said.
>> Daron Ladson: Yeah, yeah. Yes.
>> John Iamaio: I am not my relationship status, am.
>> Daron Ladson: I more than that?
>> John Iamaio: Yeah. Yes to you.
>> Daron Ladson: Yeah. M yeah.
>> John Iamaio: And that's a big one for a lot of people, I think, who don't consider what it's like to be single. You know?
>> John Iamaio: That sometimes the way that what's communicated can be you're only as good as your relationship, which I think is super, super important.
>> Daron Ladson: Yes.
>> John Iamaio: man. So, Anne, how about your story? Like, what's that been like for you as you were single, navigating it?
>> Ann Ielapi: Yeah, sure. So a lot of my singleness was prior to knowing the Lord. So that's a whole story in itself. but finding the Lord, I really realized how many voids I was trying to fill with attention from men. Finding the Lord was great. Got me on the right track, really understanding the purpose of marriage, the purpose of relationship outside of the one you have with Jesus, and helped me to be my best version of myself, a healed version of myself, to then really consider, okay, what does this version of Ann need in a partner? So being able to then really look for that, or at least have the awareness of what I wanted, when it would show up, wasn't sure when that would happen, and it ended up being quite a. Quite a long time. So I met my husband. I was 27, almost 28 years old. So I had about eight years of church life in singleness, similar to Darren, really feeling that people wanted to know more about your relationship status. Why are you single? And especially, I think, for women, m it really becomes your identity. M and in conversation, too, it's really what women talk about very often is the person that they're with or if they have children, they're children. And it's, you know, kind of got to the point, especially in my late twenties, where I had a lot going on. I was serving in so many capacities with different churches around the area and pursuing my own career goals and different things, and I felt like I had so much more to talk about outside of that. But I was being put into this box, and it was really frustrating. Really, really frustrating. and I think there was a lot of value, though, in that season, to grow resilience and to really sit with the Lord process. There was frustration. I wanted to be married and people highlighting that I wasn't, wasn't helpful.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Absolutely.
>> Ann Ielapi: That was painful. so being able to sit with the Lord and grow through that was beneficial for me. And then now being married, understanding the value of how your character develops in your singleness is crucial because your spouse is a great teammate, is a great partner, advocate person to encourage or an ear to listen. But at the end of the day, if you aren't right with the Lord and right with yourself, your spouse is never going to make up that difference.
>> John Iamaio: Right, right. Yeah. That's a really great point right there because a lot of people assume, oh, they're going to fill in all these gaps in my life and life is going to be perfect after I find that person. My person. I was just joking with my wife yesterday. Yeah, yeah. We saw at some tv show we were watching and somebody else called them my person. And I just thought, I just turned to my wife and I said, you're my person. And she did not find that humorous.
>> Daron Ladson: I don't know.
>> John Iamaio: It turns out, you know, 25 years old. Yeah. Yeah. So that's very, very interesting. yeah. So much in your story too, that's stands out. You know, like before, before Jesus seeking validation in relationships and then having a time where you're like, waiting probably in the confusing in between a little bit.
>> Ann Ielapi: Absolutely.
>> John Iamaio: what's that like in that season of, like, readjusting? Because I think a lot of people can identify with that. Maybe even some people listening can identify with being in that season where maybe you've lived life one way and now you're feeling called to live life a different way. But that's really hard to do. What was your experience doing that?
>> Ann Ielapi: Yeah, it's extremely difficult. I think there were definitely a couple years I was 1ft in, 1ft out because I had friends and an established identity living one way, yet I was learning and feeling and being convicted that I needed to change and starting to experience the blessing, and the benefits of walking in a righteous way, developing and stewarding my relationship with the Lord. But you're still torn between, all right, God, I know what you want of me, but what do I feel society wants of me and also what's familiar and what's comfortable and what is that quick fix when I'm feeling alone or rejected compared to really being patient and waiting on the Lord and going through the hard work of dealing with those feelings and getting to the root of where do those even come out of? Why do I believe that about myself? Because that takes time. It's uncomfortable. It's not fun. You feel alone in it. thankfully, I had really great mentors I was able to connect with and talk with, who helped give me steps in how to really approach doing that work. But the payout is that long term benefit, which fully outweighs those short term rewards or those short gains kind of falling back into old patterns. So the patience and the due diligence to pursue those things of the Lord and righteousness is so worth it. But until you've started it and start to see those benefits, it's hard to convince yourself otherwise when all of your data is from the past. Right? So my dad is telling me, this works, this helps do this, and you're trying to rewire all of that. And it takes a lot of work, but it is really, really worth it. But like I said, it's probably a good two years before I really fully invested and believed m in the work, that it would be worth it and pay off.
>> John Iamaio: Wow.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Wow.
>> John Iamaio: D'Angelo, I see you thinking over there.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Oh, yeah.
>> John Iamaio: Where are your thoughts going right now?
>> Amanda D'Angelo: I immediately think of what would be helpful.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: From people within the church to hear when they hear and know your stories, or if they do, because some people just assume, like, oh, poor Darren and Ann. They're so single, like, you know, at the time, and, like, just. They think that that's the next thing, or, like, that's the only thing. And sometimes I think people, they just don't know what else to ask, which is very sad. Like, oh, I can ask someone about their job and their relationship and their kids, but, like, do you actually want to know people past those things? So, I mean, and wanting to seek righteousness, like, imagine someone come up to her and said, what's your relationship with God? Like, how can I support you in that? Rather than like, oh, I'm so sad that you're single? Or like, are you finding someone? How's dating? You know? Yeah, I just. I don't know if people in the church see that there's more to people than their marital status. Like you said, darren.
>> Ann Ielapi: Yeah.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: And I wonder what would be helpful in that time. Go ahead.
>> Ann Ielapi: Yeah. And for someone like me, those questions often made me want to revert. Cause it, immediately poked at that rejection wound. So then I immediately wanted to fill it with my ex or whoever had previously been giving me attention. so it was not helpful whatsoever.
>> John Iamaio: Interesting. That makes total sense. So what do you. That makes a question come up in my mind. What do you both wish that people within the context of the church knew about being single? What do you wish that people understood that you feel like they just don't get it?
>> Daron Ladson: Yeah, I, Gosh, a single. I mean, it feels so basic and fundamental. But singleness is biblical. You know, like, even, like scripture, I tend to be a preacher, so I'm.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Gonna try not to preach and be.
>> Daron Ladson: More, like, open and vulnerable instead of just preaching all the time. But truly, like, it literally says, like, to some, there's a gift, gift of singleness. To others, it's a gift of marriage, you know? And so some people just have that gift. It's like they're both equal. I don't want to devalue marriage.
>> John Iamaio: Right.
>> Daron Ladson: I don't want to devalue people who desire that type of covenant and union. I think it's beautiful. It's obviously of God, but so is singleness, you know, and to truly embrace and to, I, guess. I mean, I'm trying to say this sensitively, but, you guys know, I'm pretty straightforward. But, you know, people don't necessarily have to conform to your expectation of what, you know, your vision of what their life should be. You know, that's not. We conform to God's vision, for sure. Like, that's the number one. We want to be conformed to his image, but his image may not be. It's not even what I want sometimes, you know what I mean? Like, let's be honest. So, you know, just what we're being conformed to has to be ultimately in the image of Christ. And for some people, that just works out for them better as single. I mean, now I'm m, like, fired up, you know what I mean? And I could. I mean, yeah, it just works out for them. It's just better. I can honor God, and I can live this life as God would intend me to live, better as a single individual. And that's okay. That's okay. That's not a loss. I'm not lonely. I'm not missing out. I'm not. There are different struggles in each, you know, there are different joys and freedoms in each, you know? And so, I mean, yeah, just to truly, I guess, embrace that. I wish, like I said, I do think now for what? I don't know why. Maybe we can talk about that. I don't know. But I do think things are changing. I do. but I just wish growing up that it was equally, you know, like the red pillow, the blue pill. No, there's, like, all these, like, I wish it was an equal presentation of. Also, when you grow up, yes, you may want to be single, and that's okay. Like, I wish we heard that growing up. because now kind of like Ann was saying, there's, like, a rewiring. Like, I have to tell myself now that it's okay to be single. Whereas if we heard that growing up, then it's like, oh, okay, well, yeah, this is just, like, this is just another option to live in the way of Christ. Like, it's still in the way of Christ, you know?
>> John Iamaio: Yes.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: I don't know of anyone who's growing up hearing that. Yeah, that's probably personally, don't. I never thought of even a parent saying to their kid, it's okay if you grow up and you're single. That's all right. Like, how many people are doing that? I m mean, hopefully there are.
>> John Iamaio: Yeah, well, I tell my daughter that, but that's for different reasons.
>> Ann Ielapi: Protective dad over there.
>> Daron Ladson: Have to be dead.
>> John Iamaio: I know.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: I love that answer.
>> John Iamaio: That's really good. And how would you answer that question? How would you think about.
>> Ann Ielapi: Yeah, I would echo a lot of what Darren just shared. but I think, too, just. And maybe folks forget, you know, once you're in a relationship and or married, starting a family, sometimes you forget what the value of those years were for you. M and so I would just really encourage people to remember, recall, or just have that awareness of how much God works in a person, in their singleness, because so much of their attention is given to him in that season.
>> John Iamaio: Yeah, that's a wise word there. You said something, too, darren, that this is kind of tying in a little bit in my mind. I'm wondering maybe about going there, because I think a lot of people think, maybe Deangelo said this before, but, like, you know, oh, poor person. Poor single person. Like, as you reflect on the single stages of your life, and you can throw yourself into this mix, too, Amana, since you're there, like, we're there at one point, not too far away, like, what are the joys of that? Like, what's the joys of living in that state? You know what I'm saying? M I think everybody always thinks it's pitiful, but, like, do they. Are they skipping over something that they should actually be appreciating the joy that you get to experience? Dick.
>> Daron Ladson: Oh, me?
>> John Iamaio: Yeah.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: I don't know.
>> John Iamaio: Whoever can answer, whoever wants to answer.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Whoever.
>> Daron Ladson: Okay.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Yeah.
>> Daron Ladson: Yeah. I think there is. I mean, it's obvious, but there is a freedom that is, My time is. I feel like more of my own. I can spend my time, my money, you know, just a lot of things. I can choose to travel or not. I can choose to, you know, there's just a lot of. I can choose. I just, like, you guys know, babysitting. I just came from babysitting. Another story, another time, anyway, so. Yeah, but just to. Or invest in other individuals. And just. I went yesterday and just had, you know, lunch with the. Not that married people with families can't do that. But I just feel like,
>> Daron Ladson: Yeah, my time is my own. My money is my own. And that, to me, is a joy. It is a privilege. It is a privilege, but it's a joy. And it's a blessing to be able to have a. A bit more autonomy, I guess, if that's the word, in deciding what to do with your life. Yeah, I think that's one joy.
>> John Iamaio: Yeah.
>> Daron Ladson: Autonomy.
>> John Iamaio: Yeah, that's true.
>> Ann Ielapi: Yeah. I would add to that figuring out who you are, figuring out what you enjoy. I know a lot of what I walked out initially just with the specific wounds that I had. but I became at one point, so fixated on getting married, finding that person. I wasn't even present in my life to enjoy what I had at the moment with friends or taking vacations or whatever it was. And I remember having this thought in prayer, so it was probably the Lord, but, saying, if you knew the day you were going to meet your spouse, would you be less stressed out about it? And immediately the answer was, well, yeah. And him, the Lord just saying back to me then, can you trust me that that day is coming? And that was like a switch for me. And I was able to enjoy so much more richly what I had in those single years before meeting my husband.
>> John Iamaio: Interesting. There's a lot in that, isn't it? Like, about being present to what, how God's already at work, no matter, because that can relate to singleness or any other fill in the blank things that we're waiting for in life, if, you know, fill in the blank, oh, things will be better then. Once this happens, things will be better, and then we miss out on what's currently going on in our life in the day. That's an interesting point.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Oh, yeah.
>> John Iamaio: Yeah.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: So there's a line in emotionally healthy leader by Peter Scazzaro, and he said.
>> John Iamaio: I know, I know.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Definitely study that book together. Very grateful for, it says that marriage gives you an opportunity for realizing and expressing the depth of Christ's love, where singleness shows the breadth of Christ's love. And, I mean, I look back on my single years and I did have years where I put, I just waited and waited and waited and thought, like, this is the, like, this will finally be what I need. Like, I'm just, I just gotta be patient or more righteous or whatever, and then God will bless me with it. And then I got to the point where I'm like, you know, I really need to utilize this time well because I don't think that God is going to call me a singleness forever. So I started like, a book club. I got, I became instructor for Zumba. I, like, started mentoring more women. I was like, doing all these things that I was always wanted to do. And, I saw that how, like, my life had more freedom to pour into people. And. And, I mean, looking back, I'm like, man, that was just such a rich time. Like, God really used it. And now looking to my present life, we have to actually really be mindful of our time. Cause I could easily, like, push Nick aside and be like, nope, I gotta do all these things for all these people. I'm like, no, Nick is my number one priority on this earth is that he's my one. Like, that I have to pour into the most. He's my greatest neighbor.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: That we've talked about that. And, it's just a big switch, but still can show God's glory if you're really seeing it for the gift that it is.
>> John Iamaio: Yeah. Great observations, too. Yeah, I love that. Okay, so flip it. No, you got something d?
>> Daron Ladson: You're thinking, yeah, yeah. I guess also encourage.
>> Daron Ladson: I really try to be vulnerable, not preach.
>> John Iamaio: Lord, you can do both.
>> Ann Ielapi: You can do both.
>> Daron Ladson: Oh, my gosh. No, I didn't realize I'm learning about myself now. I'm a preacher. I just feel like also single people can be in a covenant type relationship. Cause I definitely think Paul was like, I'm willing to go without me for the sake of you. You know what I mean? For the sake of you and I growing closer to him, I'm willing to forgive, forsake this for you, you know, like, that is a covenantal type. He obviously wasn't. He was single when he said that at least, you know, and that's a covenantal type of commitment to another that he would be like, listen, if me eating this meat is gonna make you question your faith, yeah, forget about the chicken. Like, I don't need. I don't need the chicken. You know, let's throw the chicken out the window. Like, that is just so single people don't have to forsake a type of covenant. I don't know if that's the right word, but a type of commitment and relationship, like, you don't have to. I mean, it's obviously gonna look different, and the investment, you know, it's going to look different than marriage for sure. and it's not as automatic or immediate, but certainly as a single person, you can still experience the, like, I'm sacrificing for another. Like, you still can experience that as a, for the rest of your life as a single person, you know? Yes. So I just, yeah, just encourage whoever might lifelong be a single person for whatever reason.
>> John Iamaio: right.
>> Daron Ladson: And that's a beautiful thing for Christ.
>> John Iamaio: No, that's so good. That's so good. Yeah. I've heard it described as, you know, the union with Jesus is really the focus of, you know, a single life, you know, and, like, more. And, I mean, we want all of that to be all of our lives and married life as well. But there is a sense in which I wonder if singleness helps us appreciate that at a deeper level than even marriage. When. When marriage, you have this other person that you're in union with in a, in a different way. Like, I feel like singleness may be an opportunity to experience oneness with Jesus in a different kind of way. Just thought, I don't know if that's accurate, what your experience is on that. True, not true? I don't know.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Well, for me, it was like, I, I think I'm the kind of person who, like, loves, like, 100% or, like, I have to set up boundaries if I'm like, oh, I see things that need to change in a relationship. So I'm like, I'm very much, like, I don't know what the middle ground looks like. It's, like, really hard for me because I love people so much. So when I had a relationship with Jesus, I was all in. Like, I loved him. I knew he was my everything. Nick came the picture, I was like, how do I do this? This is so weird. Like, how do I love God with all that I am and then love Nick sacrificially and whatnot? And so I think for me, I had to see, I actually love Nick better when I'm fully and completely, in relationship with Jesus. Like, I'm a better wife to him when that he remains and always will be my number one. But it was hard for me at first to figure, because time even too, how do I. I would love to spend time with Nick, but I would need to spend time with Jesus. So, like, it was. Yeah, those practical things had to, be figured out for me.
>> John Iamaio: Anne, anything in that, that resonates with.
>> Ann Ielapi: You, echoing the whole experience there? Yeah. It's a really delicate balance because time is such a limited resource, and outside of just the lord and or your significant other, how many other commitments do we have, right? A job, your mental well being, your physical health, your family, friends. So much is vying for our time and being able to figure out how do I allocate it or spend it in the way that's going to help me be my best self for everyone, which starts with making sure I'm spending that time. For me, it's the morning with the lord. but for people it's different. I know some friends who it's really like in the evening, they really feel like they connect better with the Lord. But whatever that is, just making sure you get that time with the Lord. Like Amanda said, to be able to love everyone in a Christ like way, because our flesh doesn't always want to do that. So whether it's a friend or a spouse, a co worker, it's really important.
>> John Iamaio: Yeah.
>> John Iamaio: M good stuff.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Yeah.
>> John Iamaio: One of the questions that I have, kind of the flip side of the joy question is I think some people don't also don't understand some of the sorrows that people who are single experience. Maybe at a deeper level. I feel like sometimes there can be a sense of being looked over or like, forgetting what that's like. Can you think of anything that you experienced during your singleness that you would say? I don't know if people really understood how tough this was. It was all easy. That's good.
>> Daron Ladson: Okay.
>> John Iamaio: Fantastic.
>> Ann Ielapi: Oh, no, there was a lot of sorrow. A lot of sorrow. I think, you know, one example I think of immediately is attending weddings.
>> John Iamaio: Oh.
>> Ann Ielapi: Was so difficult because it can be really hard to celebrate somebody else's joy when you're waiting for that same thing.
>> John Iamaio: Interesting. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah. Makes a ton of sense.
>> Ann Ielapi: Ok. And then, trials, too. It's, you know, you don't really have in some capacities you do. but to the level of a spouse, you don't have someone to really talk to about what you're going through.
>> John Iamaio: Right.
>> Ann Ielapi: You have the Lord. Do we have audible conversations with the God or with God. I don't know that I ever have. Maybe other people do, but, you know, that was tough. when you're going through something really challenging or really personal and you want to talk to a best friend, but maybe they're not there. So I know, like those later college years when I kind of started that transition of following the Lord. I had best friends, but they weren't following the Lord. And things I was experiencing at the time, I didn't have close church friends yet to talk to, but I also didn't have my old friends to talk to. So kind of feeling that loneliness in those voids can be tough.
>> John Iamaio: Yeah. Well, that makes sense, too. Yeah, for sure.
>> Daron Ladson: Yeah. I think there's definitely, a type of shame, that single people might experience. and, you know, shame, it'll drive you to do anything. Right. So then you're trying to force yourself to be in a relationship that you know is not good for you or not just for the sake of saying that you're in a relationship or. Or. Or you're dating, and then this is my experience, like, or you're dating and, Okay, date to get married. Got it. So we're going through, you know, heckin hot water. I don't know if I can say that in the relationship going through heck, but, you know, you just gotta stick it out and tough it out and make sure it works, because we're dating to get married, you know? So. Cause you wanna avoid the shame of being single, right? You wanna avoid, like, another person coming up to you and asking you, like, you're getting older, like, what's going on? You know what I mean? You just wanna avoid that. So let me just get in a relationship for. For the sake of, avoiding their thoughts and opinions, you know, which is that, can be hard. Cause you don't just hurt yourself, you hurt the other person, too. You know, like, it's not just about, like, you hurt. And then other people who have to, you know, they choose to, but whatever. Like, other people in your life who are day in and day out. I can remember calling my cousin, and my cousin was like, Darren, if you call me one more time about this relationship, I'm hanging up. You know, I was like, I get it. You know, like, I. Like, You know, I get it. Like, I get it. So, yeah, there's that. Also, I think, a flip side to what I mentioned before. So, joy is the freedom in autonomy. But a flip side to that is that everything is up to you. Everything is up to you. You know, so even now, I might be. If I'm looking forward to a new career or if I want to buy a house or not, you know, if I had wife or kids, then it's like, okay, which school district? There are other things to narrow down where I might want to live or maybe move back closer to home or from the DC area. So maybe, you know, but now it's like, Darren, what do you want to do?
>> John Iamaio: Right?
>> Daron Ladson: It's all on you, really, you know? So that could be another, I think, struggle.
>> John Iamaio: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, totally.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Wow. Oh, my gosh. I just have, like, flashbacks, like, coming to my mind. I m think what people's opinions about singleness didn't help at all. but I think some. I think my worst parts of singleness were self inflicted because I would walk into a room and scan the room, be like, all right, who is single here? Like, who can I date? Is my future husband in this room? Because I came from purity culture, where it's like, the one is going to be there. And if you're. If you wait enough and surrender enough, it's gonna happen. So I was like, I just kept waiting for, like, this, just this Nick D'Angelo just walk, like, in front of me. And that's it. and it took me a while to realize when I didn't have plans. Like, I didn't have to live in my loneliness. Like, acknowledging your loneliness. Yes. And, like, going to God in that and friends. Absolutely. But, like, I struggled with it. I would look at my weekend ahead and say, oh, my gosh, I have no plans all day Saturday. And then it would feel like, this tightening in my chest. Like, what am I gonna do? Cause it's like, it feels very lonely. And then I just. One day, I think God really gave me the idea of, like, what do you love to do? Like, you have the whole day. What do you wanna do? And I'm like, I love to write, and I love to play the piano, and I love to go to coffee shops, and I'm like, love to go for a walk. So I made, like, a list in my head of, like, this is how I can use my day to really worship God and restore myself. And it doesn't have to feel so daunting, but it took me a while to get there to really savor that freedom.
>> John Iamaio: Wow.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Cause it can be very lonely and similar to you, Anne. I just wanted someone to walk through life with, like, family parties when the mom's side's getting all crazy, like, you know, cause it's a food italian family. I'm like, where's my purse? In this room that can, like, I understand what's going on here. You know, like, I. Mutual faith, shared experience. Like, you know, it's tough to do that by yourself, you know, definitely. So.
>> John Iamaio: Definitely. Wow.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Great question, John.
>> John Iamaio: Wow. Well, you know, I love hearing your stories. I think it's so appropriate. I mean, the one thing that we didn't really cover here yet is just an interesting fact. as christians, we follow this guy named Jesus, and, he was never married. So that just kind of demystifies things.
>> Daron Ladson: A bit for us.
>> John Iamaio: If marriage was the ultimate goal in life, then the person we follow might have been married, but he wasn't. And, I think for one reason, it shows us we can live a fulfilling life without that being in need in our lives. Paul also wrote a lot of the New Testament. Not a married guy. Lots, of other examples we can point to, and a lot of marriages within the Bible that you're like, what in the world happened there? So it's not like, let's face it, people, not every marriage is this idealized state that you just have to be in a marriage. Right? Like, so it's like, oh, my lord. Like, if that's the way it is, stay away. M. so let's just give some theological perspective that way as well. But I think maybe landing it this way, would be good. what do you think the vision for the church going forward would be in how to really make singles a part of the community in a deeper and richer way, what would it look like for the church to do that? intentionally, you think?
>> Ann Ielapi: Well, I think I'll just start by saying I've seen a lot of progress there. I've seen the churches really investing in the community of young adults and despite relationship status, but just really hosting a lot of, whether it's a networking type hangout opportunity and at the church or not, a lot of, like, off site things, which is super fun, to really just, again, I think, be an opportunity for people to get to. To know others outside of church, outside of your relationship status is really important to build those deeper relationships, as well as, I think February is often a q and a panel about relationships, and not just having individuals who are married talk about and give this holier than thou wisdom, but bringing in people who've maybe been divorced or maybe are still single or dating and getting really the full spectrum of what are relationships? What do I even think it is? I'm after. Do I even know what I'm desiring or think I'm desiring to get into? So I think I've seen a lot of progress from the church, and if that continues, I think we're on the right path.
>> John Iamaio: That's good. That's good.
>> Daron Ladson: Yeah, I think I absolutely agree. And just to add to that, just development, of community, you know, I think it's crucial. Again, just went over to my friend's house just to watch your kids while they, while the husband and wife had something to do, you know, so I can invest in them. But then when I need somebody to talk to, I can go over their house, you know, and just. Just talk with them and just hang out, you know, so just being invited places, maybe if, you know, Christmas or Thanksgiving is coming up and, you know, somebody who. Their family's far or for whatever reason they don't have family, then invite them, you know? Hey, our door is open. Come on over. Come on over anytime, you know, not just for Thanksgiving, but just come on over. Cause we're here for you, you know, and we love you, as you are, so just being more intentional with developing community. Ah. yeah, and I listened to this podcast. This is a great podcast. There was another podcast I was listening to, and, I mean, I hope I don't open up a can of worms, but, like, there was an individual who he was same sex attracted, but also a Christian. And so he, got into a relationship. I mean, a platonic, you know, he met. He met a brother, and the brother was not same sex attracted. And so they just hit it all in terms of, yo, we are in each other's lives, and I'm for you, you're for me. Yeah, we're growing in Christ. You know, everything's platonic. It's all healthy and cool. And then the guy met a girl, and he was like, hey, I just want to let you know that this guy right here is in my life. And, I mean, so part of the same, sex attractance guy's story was, I know that I cannot live by myself. He was like, a boundary for me is to not live by myself. Because if I'm living by myself, it's a rap. Like, it is just not gonna go over well. And I m like, it's better for me to live with somebody, but also, I can't get married. So what? So then what? Like, I'm pretty much for the rest of my life gonna be single. But also, I really genuinely want to follow Christ. So runs into this guy. This guy. Fast forward it, you know, meets the girl, and he's like, this guy right here. This is his story. But also, he's really very much a part of my life, you know? And I envision him being a part of my life and, you know, healthy. Thank God. Like, the lady was all for that, you know? And so they ended up getting married, and now, at, least, I don't know, maybe it was a year or two ago that I heard the podcast. So I don't know where things are at now, but at the end of the podcast, like, they literally had bought a house together. He had the in law suite, I think it was. And so they could, like, it was like a community effort where, you know, I'm not imposing on your marriage. Like, I'm not. This is not something weird here. Like, it's, definitely your marriage and your family. But at the same time, I have community, I have people. I have a space that invites me into so that I'm not out here living any type of life, you know what I mean? And so, that for them, it worked, you know, I'm not saying that's everybody's story. I'm not saying that's everybody's expectation. But the point is developing community, such that where the single individuals have a space and opportunity just to be connected and involved, I think, is crucial.
>> Ann Ielapi: I love that. And I think what it's making me kind of think of as a theme is, like, let's break up that club. Like, it's not a marital club that we're trying to be part of. And I've had great women in my life, in my journey who were married, but very much kept very real friendships, healthy, very engaged, involved friendships with me. And I really felt like that's the kind of married woman I aspire to be where I'm not in this club. And now I have just, you know, disowned all of my single friends because we can't go on double dates. But I'm still gonna keep those healthy relationships that I have with these women who have walked along my side in my singleness, and they're gonna stay in my life because they're really valuable.
>> John Iamaio: It's beautiful.
>> Daron Ladson: It's huge.
>> John Iamaio: Beautiful.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: I think that's a big reason why the church. It feels like the church does devalue singleness. Cause I don't know if they know how to live in community. All m together. so let's go to the main question, like, why don't they know how to do this in the church? Why do they not know how to blend the community?
>> Ann Ielapi: That's a wonderful question. I don't know if I have an answer. I, don't know if it's. We're not creating the space for it. You know, I think a lot of times, with even small groups, how they're structured. Structured is there's ones for married couples or for all women or all men, but there's never that I've ever seen a blended small group for married and single people. but, yeah. So I don't know if the space is there for it.
>> Daron Ladson: Yeah, I agree. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if it's western culture, our society, you know, we're more individualistic, into our silos, in our units, and that's just how. That's. That's the norm.
>> John Iamaio: Yes.
>> Daron Ladson: You know?
>> John Iamaio: Yeah.
>> Daron Ladson: It's just how we function. It's expected. Leave your family and create your own, you know, that's just what people do in the west. I mean, but it makes me think of Galatians. Like, when he says there's no jew or greek or slave or free or, you know, male, or, you know, like, we're all one. I mean, maybe he would add in there. There's no married or unmarried, you know, like, just add that in there to that. Like, we're all literally in this. In this pot together.
>> John Iamaio: Yeah.
>> Daron Ladson: I mean, trying to be like him.
>> John Iamaio: Right.
>> Daron Ladson: You know, we all, all are.
>> John Iamaio: Yeah.
>> Daron Ladson: Yeah, yeah. It's a great question. I don't know.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: Yeah.
>> John Iamaio: Yeah.
>> Amanda D'Angelo: I'm wondering if it does go back to what you said, darren, about people see that as you, part of your identity is your marital status. So when someone gets married, they think married people like some single, single people, which, I mean, we have a small group and majority of them are married, but we have someone in there that's single. And I'm, Like, I love a's in our small group. I mean, I just wouldn't want it any other way. And, yeah, it's a shame, because he loves being a part of the group to see how marriage works, because he does hope to get married, and then we're like, we are inspired by the way that he lives out his singleness. So it's just. It is a shame that that's not happening. Happening more often.
>> John Iamaio: Yeah, well, it's a thing that we can aspire to, I think, as a church and as a community. And hopefully we are getting better at it, but we need, ah, we need to be proactive about it. It's not. It's not automatic. So, I'm just really grateful for this combo.
>> Ann Ielapi: I think that's really good.
>> John Iamaio: Feels like a good place to kind of let it rest for a bit. But I just appreciate your guys vulnerability as well in all of this and in the preaching, too. Darren.
>> Daron Ladson: Oh, my God. Oh, my gosh. I promise you, I'm a real human with flaws and everything. I promise you. Oh, my gosh.
>> John Iamaio: So, Yeah, it's just a real treasure to have you guys on here. And for all of you watching. Thanks for watching. Listening. Thanks for listening. So great to have you and, hope to see you or hear you again sometime. On why, God, why.