Walter Obermeier: Technology Should be Invisible

Show Notes

Walter Obermeier has worked for some real powerhouses of tech, HP, Accenture and UiPath. At 16, he had his first insight into the power of technology and IT in banks. 

In his view, technology is something that you use in a bank, and it's necessary and a tool, but it will not deliver growth. Instead, growth is delivered by people.

The most important thing to support your clients and customers is your moving at their speed. Because customers need a decision today or tomorrow and you need to be fast and adaptive and help your customers achieve their goals.  Banks need to get faster and more adaptive in shorter time frames than they do now.

He’s a follower of the KISS principle, Keep It Simple and the 80/20 Rule. To build towards the future, you will see that you only need 20% of the functionality you have today in your application to delight 80% of your customers and more. 

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[00:00:00] Mike Parsons: Welcome to unbounded talks on growth in financial services. Hi everyone. I'm your host. Mike Parsons and unbounded is powered by FLOWX.AI and today we are talking with Walter Obermeier, he's worked for some great brands, some real powerhouses of tech, HP, Accenture and UiPath. And just to add to that, he's also a strategic advisor to one of the hottest startups going around. We have so much to learn about growth today. So get ready to dig into the growth occasion. Walter, welcome to the show.
[00:00:39] Walter Obermeier: Hello Mike, thank you for having me on the show great to be here.
[00:00:44] Mike Parsons: I am ready for quite the masterclass in growth. Walter, thank you so much for joining us. And as I said in the introduction, what a great collection, and I only mentioned a few of your past [00:01:00] exploits, HP, Accenture UiPath.
[00:01:04] This is an amazing. A collection of companies you might argue, have all been revolutionary in their own particular way in tech. I'm really interested to know what has guided you through such an adventure. Has there been an idea or a belief that has helped you just navigate such an amazing collection of experiences?
[00:01:28] Walter Obermeier: The idea was not there when I started all this journey. And I started the IT journey already with I was 16 and trying to learn at a bank in Germany starting with it first time. And then I understood very fast that IT can support our business, IT can support management and IT can always help you to get there.
[00:01:48] So starting from the first applications 30 years ago to areas of better and better IT support. I was just adding experience to my [00:02:00] life. So I always trying to get a little bit beyond the border, of what I've learned so far and try to understand what's next.
[00:02:08] What is the next after the next? And if I find the next after the next, what is then after the next one, and if you see the brands I'm working for, and I was working for him proud to be, there was always like, oh, this is new business development. This is new technology development for another two, three years in a project or for the next project for another years.
[00:02:30] So it was less. Farming around and less sitting on my chair, it was always restless. Getting more information, getting more overview about the technology we have and how we can use technology and why we should use technology to get to a future state of where we would like to be.
[00:02:50] And I always have in mind if you want to have a one bracket around that, I have always one thing in. Seeing captain Kirk, when he was saying, 'Hey computer, please do this'. [00:03:00] And somebody did something. And this was a long time ago, Mike, and we're not there yet, were still struggling to be there that I can talk to my computer, 'please do this or that'
[00:03:10] Mike Parsons: And I think sometimes we find a Siri talking to us when we don't want her talking to us. Jumping into our conversations and introducing herself. Walter, I want to pick up on something you just said. This question of what's next, having been part of the successful companies, these really epic tech adventures.
[00:03:33] Tell me if you're looking at it, as someone introduces to you, a new company what are you looking for when you go, this thing could be next. This thing could be really big. Do you have like certain characteristics that you're looking for? Like when do you know something could be big?
[00:03:48] Walter Obermeier: When do I, when something could big, could be big it's it's one of the principles I follow. If if you take the word KISS, right? Keep it simple. And this follows me already, I think the last 20, 30 [00:04:00] years, because always when you make what, try to make it simple. It's very difficult in reality to, in something people explain something to people is easier because they follow your words, explain something to a three year old child.
[00:04:16] It's not that easy because you need to use easy words in an easy language. And if possible in only one sentence to explain what you want to do. And with this synonym, I would try to understand , how can we get there with technology? So if I find something, what makes. Life easier in a way where I can say this is under a KISS principle.
[00:04:39] So keep it simple and smart. I'm curious to understand if this is a next iteration or is it a side step? And if you look into the companies, I was lucky to work for. I learned a lot to make a next step, a next iteration. And there's never, there was [00:05:00] never a sidestep like, oh, it's just another job or another challenge in the same area.
[00:05:05] It was always a further step into new worlds. And this made me curious when I met FLOWX. And it was not only meeting FLOWX technology. It was the flow of thoughts between us.
[00:05:21] The idea of, oh, I can tell a few new ideas. He's taking them into his brain, developing further shooting back. Then you have a back and forth and back and forth. And suddenly you're three steps further away from where you were before the discussion. And I like those people where you can fast.
[00:05:42] Develop a vision, even not knowing, is it possibly, already technically possible or is it just an idea and vision and then the green light we can run after, because it's worth so technology as a next iteration plus the [00:06:00] right people makes me very curious.
[00:06:03] Mike Parsons: Wow. So when you see the right people simplifying the complex. This is almost your magic investment thesis, right? This is when you know ooh this might be what's next,
[00:06:18] Walter Obermeier: Right exactly. This might be what's next. And this makes me very sure if people like Ioan, like Radu, stay in this in this flow like FLOWX they will have a tremendous story in the next upcoming years.
[00:06:34] Mike Parsons: And you pointed out something that's really important to note. And that is when you say you're simplifying something, you are actually taking on a very complex and big challenge, right?
[00:06:47] Walter Obermeier: Yeah, absolutely. So for me, the more complex it is for me, it's fine. I like that. And I think that because I was lucky to learn all that, to have a global view of [00:07:00] things and also have this dependencies, what you see when you put something on the left side and take away something from the right side. How the results will be in the middle. So I love these complex things, but the tenor is always, how do I get to a very simple, very easy solution that others don't need to think that others still need to run through complex stories and just make the most of that with intuitive things like.
[00:07:31] Mike Parsons: I totally agree. And as you were talking, I was just thinking about the sea of complexity that surrounds any modern bank. When you look at their competitive set regulation expansion into different markets, Neo tech, FinTech competition. Today's banks really do face a lot of things that make growth hard and this growth you are our growth guru.
[00:07:57] So I want to get [00:08:00] your take on. If you were talking to banking leadership right now, who all face these sorts of complexities in achieving growth, what's your advice to them? Like how should they unlock growth? When they have got so many stakeholders and obligations to meet, how does the bank of today grow and create the bank of tomorrow?
[00:08:23] Walter Obermeier: Yeah, that's a good question. And it's not easy to solve for banks because of their legacy. So if you see the typically way with people and now advise to banks means all you need to modernize your applications. You need to modernize this, you need to go into cloud. You need to go on Omni channel.
[00:08:40] That's all fine. But in my view and my view on that one is technology, is not a changing bank. Technology is something that you use in a bank and it's necessary and it's a tool, but it will not [00:09:00] deliver growth. Growth is delivered from people. The problem now in banks is that all the people focus at least 50% of the employees in a bank, focus on technology and organization and run all this.
[00:09:19] Necessary administration around that and less people who really focus on, Hey, how can we create new products? How can we sell more? How can we create new distribution channels? How can we do some smart solutions for our clients, which help our customers to succeed. So let me give you an example, to put a mortgage solution into cloud on a website where decisions are done by AI.
[00:09:49] It's nice to have and it's necessary, but it will not create growth. Growth will be created when people like what they do when people [00:10:00] see something, oh, that's easy. I just click one, two times and I have already a new car and I clicked one, two times and I have a new boat or whatever. So this is what people would like to see and not technology hype only. Technology should move to the background. It needs to be there, but not as as the most important thing, what I need to run through.
[00:10:25] Mike Parsons: It sounds almost and tell me what you think of this Walter, but you're painting a picture where everybody is to use the Swiss analogy, keeping the trains running on time.
[00:10:35] Everyone is obsessed on keeping the technology up and no edge case problems, no outages. Everyone's just focused on. Doing that, assuming that growth comes as a result, but it's, the effort needs to be put into the people. You almost need to put an invisibility cloak on the technology so that you can devote time, not only [00:11:00] to customers, but to employees too, do I understand that correctly?.
[00:11:02] Walter Obermeier: Yeah, you do. You do understand that correctly. Let me give you a nice example. I told you before I was starting my business career in a bank, I was 16 years old. And it was a small bank in Bavaria. And then I learned sales in a bank very easily. So my team lead said, look, what we do, I'll take the paper.
[00:11:24] A bit bank. How is it contrast to guide or though that now
[00:11:28] Mike Parsons: So taking the documents in your bank,
[00:11:32] Walter Obermeier: the documents with all the payments from one customer and was flipping through these documents, oh, look, he gets this, he is paying for this. He is paid for this, and now he's doing some very crazy, he took a phone called this guy and said, Hey, come in I need to talk to you.. This guy came in and we were flipping again through this, his documents saying, this is what you have this, you have doubled . You have triple this, we can do better. This. We can change and made a business, a very [00:12:00] good selling cycle on that one. And after one hour or whatever it was, then he agreed and he signed a few contracts.
[00:12:07] So successful sale in a bank, the difference till now 30 years later is we're not using this paper documentation anymore. It's electronically, but the effort looks like still the same.
[00:12:22] Mike Parsons: So literally in your lifetime, you're sitting back here going, hang on a second.
[00:12:28] The industry of banking is largely operating in the same way it did when I started my career here is that sounds crazy. Doesn't it?
[00:12:38] Walter Obermeier: Unfortunately, it is like that. So that's no big movement inside. And the problem is that running the bank, this is one of the typical phrases run the bank and change the bank run.
[00:12:51] The bank is now blocking the bank from doing some creative work that everybody is only focusing on day-to-day to data, but [00:13:00] nobody understands how to use. If you ask today how to run a growth story in a bank, it's not analyzing a data to give a loan. It's more understand the data and what the client wants to do.
[00:13:14] Then the end customer in the next two, three years and create the right strategy for him to support also to create the right products. And not run on the old one and just put it on cloud. If you just put data on cloud or products on cloud, it's just another distribution channel, but it's not new. So there's no eraser.
[00:13:39] Mike Parsons: It's almost, you're saying, Hey guys, you've got all this great technology fine, but you have to put it to use to help your customer, get the job done, whatever job they're on to buying a house, a car building, family wealth, building stability, or security in their life. [00:14:00] That's what you're working towards.
[00:14:02] Not just having another app. Would that be fair?
[00:14:05] Walter Obermeier: That'd be fair. And for that one to support your client, you don't need complex applications, which you move into cloud and make it a hundred percent precise with all the analytics behind. The more important is your fast, right? Cause if a customer needs a decision today or tomorrow, because it's a, there's some disruption going on and you need to be fast and adaptive and help your customers and not focus on a three years transformation program to migrate data somewhere to something right.
[00:14:42] That. So whenever you think about what needs to be done, banks. Needs to get faster and more adaptive and adapt in shorter timeframes. What they do now.
[00:14:55] Mike Parsons: You've set the scene perfectly for the next two topics that I really want to hear your [00:15:00] thoughts on. And Walter, before we get to those, I just want to remind all of our listeners that unbounded is powered by FLOWX.ai.
[00:15:07] And we are all about digging into the growth equation for financial services and we've set the scene. We know that it is. All about deploying the technology in order to serve customers and employees, to help them get the job done. That's where the growth equation really works. But now let's tackle some tough subjects Walter.
[00:15:30] So because you mentioned it earlier, legacy and application modernization, this can become a real blocker for banks. All too many times, we hear that there's a different system for know your customer. There's a different system for core banking, the payment rails. There's often a completely different system running mobile.
[00:15:53] These are all in various states of legacy status. And the big [00:16:00] question facing any CTO is modernizing this stack so that when people come from the business and they say, we want a new product, a new service, they say it's a matter of days, not a matter of years. So where do we start when we're faced with this challenge, break it down for us Walter. What is the best way to think about application modernization?
[00:16:19] Walter Obermeier: So the best way to think about that is if you first understand that an application even a complex application is nothing else than a table or tablet of different processes. So it's a summary of processes.
[00:16:37] You can summarize 10 processes, you can summarize one thousand the processes. The problem is how complex you want to make this application. Let me give you an analogy. With office, right? If you use office at home with Word with Excel and whatever, maybe even better PowerPoint. Guess how many processes [00:17:00] within this applications you use, you might use.
[00:17:02] You might use 20 or 30 processes for what you need the other two thousands different processes for them. And anyway, you don't understand that. Yeah. If you think about Excel who can do PIVOT in Excel.. How many people can do that. The same happens to the complex systems of banks because it is homegrown, right?
[00:17:26] They started to code this processes. They added another process. This one, then for regulations and. this is why they're now stuck in this complex old legacy systems and how to run them and not even being able to change, but in the end, what you need out of this applications is not the process.
[00:17:49] You need the data that's all. If you now have a possibility to take data out of this application in and untie the front [00:18:00] end to the user. So untie where the employees can work with that. And simplify this user interface, what people see on their screen, then you have already a big step forward because people only see what they need.
[00:18:15] This is the first iteration we say, hey FLOWX can deliver a platform where you can have tailored interface for the different employees and the different areas, but still use the data, which is in the old legacy system. Maybe use data, which is in other systems, standalone systems and combine them. And again, I'm not talking about migration at this time, I'm just talking about, I give you a, let me say a head up display and this head up. This gives me all the information I need, no matter for which application at old legacy systems it's coming from.
[00:18:53] Mike Parsons: Gotcha. Let me make sure that I'm breaking this down the way you are. Are you [00:19:00] saying that. First of all, the answer is in the data, but it's about understanding the crucial, the primary data and focusing upon that and building the new user interfaces, new experiences from that.
[00:19:15] And don't make the mistake of trying to convert, modernize all the old unused the other 80% of the data. Are you making that kind of almost 80, 20 disctinciton?
[00:19:27] Walter Obermeier: Absolutely. Yeah, this is what, do.
[00:19:31] Mike Parsons: This question though. Still, I want to come back to this data because this is great because I can feel all the bank executives listening to the show right now going, oh my gosh.
[00:19:41] I just saved so much time and effort. The question is, how do I know what the important data is? What does it look like? How do I identify the 20%? So how do we do that, Walter?
[00:19:56] Walter Obermeier: Again, that's the challenge, what you have as a bank, if you focus [00:20:00] always on the past, which is this 80% of data. Now you might use that for risk analytics and all that stuff. I understand that. But if you focus on new business, you need to focus on the 20% of the data from end customers, which are looking into the future. So what is steady state today of the customer ? Where does he want to go? And not what has he done in the last 15 years?
[00:20:24] Mike Parsons: So the answer, the 20% of the data that really matters is about looking forward the future state for the
[00:20:33] Walter Obermeier: The future state and the future product, the customer needs. And you only need to look forward. You don't need to run all this heavy stuff, heavy old stuff with all this storage behind it, because nobody's interested in that.
[00:20:52] Nobody's looking and saying yeah, I need to understand what I did 15 years ago. And to understand whether we'll do [00:21:00] tomorrow, guess what would happen if we would do the, in IT the same and look back to 15 years. And then understand what we should do today. So the same is when you structure the future with IT, don't look back what we did 20 years ago, or 15 years ago.
[00:21:16] It was old stuff on premise what we now see is , fast adaptive click per use or whatever. So take technology as something, that I can take into my process and then kick out on the next day. So we are talking about real time usages already and not IT projects, which will fix us for another six months until there is a result, right?
[00:21:44] Yeah.
[00:21:45] Mike Parsons: It feels too, you're giving us permission to get over all of that accumulated tech debt that you see in a lot of banks. You're freeing us from that. You're liberating us from that, with this 80/ 20 rule. [00:22:00]
[00:22:00] Walter Obermeier: Absolutely. Yeah, because we don't we don't need that again, if you always think in the past, and you always have the costs to, to keep this data alive and stored, it will not help you to move forward. Also not help your customers to move forward because they know themselves what they did in the past or what they did good or wrong, or when they spend money or saved money, that's all fine. But it's all about the future.
[00:22:29] So when you think about, for example, analytics is fine and in banks to have this regulations to understand the risk and probably fraud. But if you think about more into predictive analytics where you use the data, what you have today then the outlook for the next three years, then you might understand, oh, there is a new client.
[00:22:51] And he has only one product with us, which is a bank account, but he is capable for buying a house he's capable of running his [00:23:00] own business. He's capable to get the next superstar. Let's focus on this guy and talk to him. Not to measure him, but talk to him, Hey, how can we support you? And when you think about support it is also something built from trust and IT and data will not build trust again.
[00:23:20] So you need to have a mix of, I have all the data I need and that's 20%. And I have an idea where how to develop this guy and this client. Or this area of clients, this consumers, or this enterprise customers or this one. So focus a little bit more on the future. And if you understand how to focus on the future, you will see that you only need 20% of the functionality, what you have today in your application.
[00:23:50] And now let me listen in your role. It does not mean that everything we throw away the 80%, but the guy who is running for growth [00:24:00] will focus with 20% of data and 20% of application on the client. And on the growth story, another guy in the back office might run the applications or run the connect or run the risk. That's fine. But for growth, you only have this.
[00:24:19] Mike Parsons: I gotcha. I think we've already liberated so much time and stress from banking executives, whether they're in the tech or the business team or the product team. And I think this gives us permission to entertain other growth drivers. And one of those is cloud migration and I think, migrating to the cloud sounds. Pretty sexy. It has almost a sense of liberation about it, but it's not just a tech thing. It's not just a hosting thing. There's a whole lot of planning and transformation that comes with that. And then there's a whole bunch of possibilities that can happen once you are migrated to the cloud.[00:25:00]
[00:25:00] What do you think Walter, are the real success drivers of migrating to the cloud, not just doing the migration, but then actually leveraging and exploiting that for growth. What are the real keys for success?
[00:25:15] Walter Obermeier: So let me start from the guys who are relevant here. It's the bank manager and the client itself, right?
[00:25:21] Take what we discussed before, when you give a bank manager, 20% of the data and only 20% of the processes, what he needs to work with his clients, you will free up his time. So he will be able to talk to five times more customers. He will be able to think about five times more customers or customer areas of things.
[00:25:45] If you now have a chance in your discussion with your client. To showcase what you want to develop for them. And you show this on your laptop, and then you say, wow, [00:26:00] we can talk about that further in the next week and the client can go home. Take a look at the website and he can see the same structure, the same, as what he discussed with the bank manager on the website or on his mobile browser.
[00:26:14] He sees the continuity. And the whole story is completely clear. And it's not with any media breaks or with any other things, right? So he can always find the same picture and the same message in different channels. That's important and to see everything in different channels, you need to be on cloud.
[00:26:38] Which means not the application, but the business outcome for enterprises, for example, or the results for the consumer areas need to be on cloud. Good. One is, if you then have small, functionality, does not need to be the full application, but small functionality. Oh, yes. We talked [00:27:00] about that three days ago and I now have taken my time to talk to my wife.
[00:27:05] I agree. If you now can have a paperless solution to agree and contract you will have faster success in higher contract rates. With within banking, because at the moment, or in the meantime, when I reflect the last 30 years banking, all that moved from a market where you have asked for money.
[00:27:28] When I was in a bank, people were begging for moneyand a loan or begging for interest and to put something on a savings account . Today it's a bank is a tool, finance, you check something on a web browser, you check even a 2%, 3%, three. So you could do everything on technology, but what people really looking for is someone to work with on their strategy, on their enterprise strategy [00:28:00] on their business
[00:28:01] Mike Parsons: Their business goals, their life goals, right? It's the jobs they're trying to get done. Those are the things that matter to customers, right?
[00:28:11] Walter Obermeier: Yeah, absolutely. And that if you then have consistent data from all the different applications and you can streamline them and consolidate them on an omni-channel to your clients which is always then 100% secure and people can run from there. You will see that business will get faster and more adaptive because this is what business people need out there. They need a bank which is running with them this fast and adaptive life, which means take less data and less applications and the processes and let's move fast forward.
[00:28:47] Mike Parsons: It's almost. A playbook that you've built for us, keep it simple.
[00:28:52] Walter Obermeier: The, yeah, let me face this. One-time. Two years ago with COVID. We had a big bank [00:29:00] in Germany who was facing suddenly not 3000 loan applications, but 30,000 loan applications per month. The challenge was not to make business. The challenge was there. Give us a fast, adaptive solution to overcome this workload and don't make any perfect solution.
[00:29:21] 80% is okay. And this is what we delivered, a solution within two days for the end customers that they can apply for that loan and get the decision within three days. And this was a change in the IT. And less than seven days, right? And this is what clients, business enterprises, need.
[00:29:44] If there is a situation out there, like COVID, you need to act fast and not in three months or in six months, and this will be the future challenges for banks to adapt fast to the client's needs. [00:30:00]
[00:30:00] Mike Parsons: And it seems to me, if I start to piece together, the picture that you've built for us Walter, this path to being fast and adaptive starts with this keeping, and building and creating the simplicity.
[00:30:13] And with that kind of as a mission, it's really about the focus on the people, the growth equation, the real factor here is energizing. Creating the growth, the momentum and the speed with people make the technology invisible, and then you came and hit us with, okay, so you've got to overcome some legacy things.
[00:30:35] The answer is in the data in the future state, it's the 80 /20 rule. And if you do these things, if you migrate to the cloud, if you go paperless, what you will inadvertently do is create more times for employees to go out and delight your business customers, your consumers, and to help them get their jobs done.
[00:30:55] Is this the Walter Obermeier playbook?
[00:30:59] Walter Obermeier: [00:31:00] Absolutely good summary, absolutely fine. Because it's a it's in the end. It means people are talking to people like 30 years before with the support of IT, but not only about it.
[00:31:15] Mike Parsons: Yeah. It's very much about putting technology to work for the business and the customer.
[00:31:20] Walter Obermeier: And put technology in the background complex, great, big, but what we use at the front end needs to have this, keep it simple.
[00:31:30] Mike Parsons: Listen on that note. I want to ask you one last question. I know our listeners will be thinking this Walter Obermeier sounds like a growth guru. Where do they find you on the internet?
[00:31:42] What's the best way for them to reach out and find your.
[00:31:44] Walter Obermeier: The best is LinkedIn everyday on LinkedIn. And I think I answer every request by myself. So you will find me on Walter Obermeier on Linkedin.
[00:31:55] Mike Parsons: Okay. So that's Walter and Obermeier is O B E R M E I [00:32:00] E R a. Otherwise just navigate in through to the FLOWX team.
[00:32:04] And you will find Walter there as well. Find it through me, Mike Parsons, I'm connected to Walter many paths to the door of Walter Obermeier . It's been wonderful to have you on the show. I feel. I feel like I'm going faster at the end of the show now, just because I have the Walter Obermeier's playbook, this KISS principle, the people principal.
[00:32:30] The answer is in the data, it's in the future state. And if you do those things, you can unlock incredible value for customers, employees. This is a wonderful way to think about unlocking growth in financial services. Walter, are you going to write a book? This is the big question,
[00:32:46] Walter Obermeier: No, because I think to write a book, you lead a lot of time. And I love to spend my time with my family and not writing a book. And by the way, I think the time when I write a book today, me as [00:33:00] Walter Obermeier, the time I finish it, it might be outdated.
[00:33:04] Mike Parsons: Maybe the transcription of this show alone may start the thread. Maybe there's at least a good blog post or two in it.
[00:33:11] Walter just say thank you so much for coming on the show. Did you enjoy yourself?
[00:33:16] Walter Obermeier: I enjoyed it very much. Thanks for hosting me. Thanks for having me on the show. Mike was great to talk to you.
[00:33:22] Mike Parsons: You're very welcome. Thank you, Walter. And thank you to you, our listeners we really do appreciate your feedback and your thoughts, and you can do all of that at unbounded.flowx.ai.
[00:33:34] All right. We really encourage you to join in the conversation. Reach out to us, tell us the topics. That are preventing you from growing and financial services. We'll bust them open. We'll unlock them. We'll put technology to good use to that of employees and customers too. All right. That's it for Unbounded Talks.
[00:33:52] That's a wrap.