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Join Stuart McLeod as he interviews the world's top accounting leaders to understand their story, how they operate, their goals, mission, and top advice to help you run your accounting firm.
Stuart: 00:00:06.911 Hi. I'm Stuart McLeod, co-founder of Karbon. Welcome to the Accounting Leaders podcast, the show where I go behind the scenes with the world's top accounting leaders. Today I'm joined by Seth Fineberg. Seth is the owner of Accountants Forward, and he has served as an editor for Accounting Today and Accounting Web US. With over 30 years of experience in the accounting profession, Seth is now helping bridge the gap between accounting technology providers and the people they serve. It's my pleasure to welcome to the Accounting Leaders podcast, Seth Feinberg. It's been ages. How are you?
Seth: 00:00:46.456 It has been a minute, my friend. I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Obviously, some of the things that may come up in our formal conversation here is that I had to kind of figure out what my next move was. I've worn editor hats in a few places, and I've been around this profession now over 20 years, so.
Stuart: 00:01:09.397 Yeah. I'm sorry about that.
Seth: 00:01:12.273 They can't seem to get rid of me, mate.
Stuart: 00:01:14.090 No matter what they do.
Seth: 00:01:16.038 Can't seem to get rid of me. So I had to figure out the overwhelmingly just-- reading the tea leaves and that. It seemed that, overwhelmingly, was-- I need to try to find a place and a way to stay and continue to contribute in some way. Because I always felt that, even though whatever-- I was journalist, editor-- whatever, you usually had some publication title over my head. I grew to really care about the folks in this profession-- the accountants I'm talking about. And even through covering tech and looking at things through that lens, you realize how important that relationship is and that they all can play nicely in the sandbox, because all boats will rise. We've kind of hit a point, and I think the lightbulb truly went off in my head was-- we had a live event last year that we had our buddy Clayton speak at. It was very important to me. I felt like his voice and his perspective should be there, because he was truly an independent. And he's also somebody, too, that's been loved and respected over here, state-side, for some time, and he's built that.
Stuart: 00:02:33.063 Even if he is an Aussie.
Seth: 00:02:34.222 [Exactly?].
Stuart: 00:02:35.802 [He?] just built it despite everything.
Seth: 00:02:38.487 Despite it all, he really is-- he's respected, he's knowledgeable, and he's also been there. He was in the seat of trying to better these relationships between the profession and the vendors. He got burned a few times and really had some good stories to tell. And he's like, "Look. The profession right now--" and he and I kind of collaborated on what he was going to say, and that's when I realized, "Okay. I think we've got something here--" is that the profession is really at a point of inflection, definitely here in North America, for sure, where you have so much tech that is pervasive.
Stuart: 00:03:18.814 Is that by fault?
Seth: 00:03:20.825 Not at all. It's just pervasive in the profession. And everything they do, Stuart-- everything, it's just you really just can't be at a point where you can't use something to automate this or that or the other thing. But in order to do that, it's not a relationship that is going to work out well if you don't have that, at least, decent communication between said vendor and said professional. I don't care how large or small you are-- particularly the small guys, which it's a different dynamic. I know in the UK, where our former parent was, it's typically mid to larger firms over there. Not that there aren't a lot of small firms; there are. But when you're talking about the profession over there, it tends to be the mid to larger guys. Over here in North America, it's quite the opposite.
Stuart: 00:04:10.776 Yeah. It's an L-shaped curve. Yeah.
Seth: 00:04:13.368 The majority of the profession are very small shops, and they go to work as a CPA-- they go to work as a bookkeeper-- they go to work as a tax professional every day. And they have, maybe, a handful of staff or so and clients, to boot, that have evolving needs, and they need to evolve with them. So part of that is the relationship with said vendor or said vendors, I think, needs to be vastly improved for the betterment of all. The trust has to be back there. You need to establish that early on. And not to show for Karbon, but just knowing Ian as I do and really getting to know Karbon from the very, very early days is-- I've really enjoyed and appreciate their approach to the market is, like, "Look. Sure. Have we spent a lot of money and time on this product-- on this platform-- this thing--"
Stuart: 00:05:11.827 Shitloads.
Seth: 00:05:12.947 "--this thing that we have?" Abso-freaking-lutely.
Stuart: 00:05:16.515 You're allowed to swear here. It's all right.
Seth: 00:05:17.964 But you don't come to market like that. You're like, "Hey. We're here to help. We have tons of content for you. We want to be your partner. We want to help you." If Karbon is for you, great. It might not be. But you're still going to look upon us fondly. And so that maybe-- this is something I think the CPAs, in particular, who are, maybe, going into building these higher-value-- these cast practices and the like are trying to do this higher-value work. They could learn from this sort of approach of just saying, "Hey. Look. You can partner with me. I am really on your side, Mr. and Mrs. Client. I'm really on your side, Mr. and Mrs. Accountant, because I want to see you do better. I want to see you succeed. Because if you succeed, then we do too, and, again, all boats rise." I'm going to probably say that a few times. But I really, truly believe in it. So I've now formed a business around that core purpose of all boats rising in this profession, which I care about, because I've been a business journalist for over 30 years. I know that business-- small business, in particular-- small, mid-size businesses-- it's been said time and time again, not just by me. I'm just really repeating what the statistics are is that they are the cornerstone of our economy. And everything that is-- most things that are good and in the world that we live in, they're a part of it. They're part of that fabric, and you don't want to see that fabric fray or go away. And the pandemic really, really, I think, showed the resilience of some, and the entrepreneurial and innovative spirit of some, and also, how harsh things can be if you're really not-- if you don't have that professional in your corner that's helping you with cash flow-- that's helping you with forecasting-- with the actual planning part of your business. And then, even in the unfortunate event that you have to wind down, they're there for that too, to hold your hand and say, "Goodbye," and make sure that people are paid off and things like that.
Seth: 00:07:21.539 If you have that good relationship, and it's not just, "Oh, I can't afford my CPA anymore because I'm in too much trouble," that's the last thing you should be getting rid of, pal. The last thing that you should cut off is the one that's in your corner. And I know a lot of small firms, who are struggling themselves, did some pro bono work, because they knew that their clients just-- they couldn't do it for a few months or several months or for that period of time. So I think, in the vendor world-- back to that again, I feel that-- so with Karbon's approach of putting quality content out there-- of educating as much as they can-- I believe in that. I believe that I have a voice and I have relationships that can help vendors in this space in a myriad of ways.
Stuart: 00:08:13.517 What's the business called, Seth?
Seth: 00:08:15.239 I'm calling it Accountants Forward, LLC.
Stuart: 00:08:18.479 Okay. That's a good name.
Seth: 00:08:20.130 But it's me. So it's not this whole other thing, I mean, for now. I mean, sure, I would love to get to the point of where I'm like, "Oh, yeah. This is actually a thing that I could, maybe, even--"
Stuart: 00:08:30.318 There's some money here.
Seth: 00:08:31.815 Well, yeah. I mean, for now it is-- it's my business. But I'd love for it to, maybe, grow to where I could be like-- for tax reasons I could make it an S corp because I'm earning enough and I need to pay employees, at least myself, and maybe somebody else or whatever. I'd love to grow it to that point. Well, you got to start somewhere. So I started off this year, officially. I've got a website in the works. I was kind of hoping it would be up and about by now, but I've seen it, at least in its building block form, and it's nearly there. But I have some bigger goals, too, of, maybe, having a regular newsletter that is going to go out with my name on it-- of being able to, maybe, do some podcasts-- maybe even offer some CPE as well. I'm partnering for that as well. So I don't want to reveal too, too much just yet, because the ink is not dry on these things, but it's in discussion. It's in, at least, my head to go, "Yeah. The value of me can't be just stuff that I write or edit." I want to get in on the planning side of things-- of how do we have these conversations again? Accounting Web leaving the market, I think left a pretty big hole, if I do say. Because I helped devise, and the people that I worked with supported and believed in the same idea, that quality content really moves the needle for the profession. They consume so much and there's so many different places you can go. And no disrespect to any of the accounting titles out there, but I felt that our approach was different. It really was less of a publication and more of a resource and a platform for thought leadership to happen. And that's why I think we got along with Karbon so well is because we had-- look. We had a whole section of our site call practice excellence. I mean, we can debate over who thought of it first, but. You know?
Stuart: 00:10:30.410 [inaudible].
Seth: 00:10:32.643 It was us. It didn't matter. It was like we were just thinking along the same lines. I said, "So I want to focus my energy and my time and my passion towards that same idea that we had at Accounting Web," which was, if we can put out this quality content, I really think it's going to help the profession. They're going to read these things. They're going to engage with vendors and in a more trusting way and a less salesy sort of way. And at the very least, you're going to read something or listen to something that is going to mean something to you and your practice. That is why I'm doing what I'm doing these days. Again, I don't know if you had a particular agenda or if you wanted me to just rattle on.
Stuart: 00:11:19.843 We're on here. We're recording. This is the podcast. That's how life works. But you've had a long history with the industry. How did you get started in journalism, and then how did you fall into accounting?
Seth: 00:11:31.663 I think it started, for me, I think, my last year of college. I graduated in '91, and so that's going back a while. I went to a liberal arts school that did have a pretty strong literary program. So I was an English major-- communications minor. I took a course; it was a senior-level course called writing for the media. I'd never really done that. I've done other media-related course, but never something that was writing for a media. And the professor was also a journalist, herself, and also a playwright, and she, eventually, went on to do more of that. But we had assignments and had to research and all these things. And she had pulled me aside one day and said, "You have the stuff." She said, "I think that you could be a good journalist." She's like, "I think you're ready for Rolling Stone now." And I teared up, and I just felt like I had my "why". Because I was like, "You know what? I do enjoy the building and the sharing of information out there." I think that's the sign of a good journalist is that you want to tell a good story, and not a made-up one. With the attack that the media has come under in recent times, I definitely feel that. And I understand where it comes from, because there are so many ways and places that you can get information now, it's hard to know what to really believe in and really just feel like, "Oh, is this for real? Is this for me?" And so I always believed in getting the most balanced [inaudible]. That's how I started in journalism, and I really wanted to do that. So I got a job. I had an internship through college-- my last year of college, and they hired me full time at a newsroom that distributed news to local radio and TV. I was just writing briefs and things like that and worked in a hectic-- I had to be in at 5:00 in the morning and some days stayed till midnight, depending on my shift; we had different shifts.
Seth: 00:13:28.885 And I realized I was-- but in three years' time, I was getting really burnt and I wanted to write. I wanted to do stories-- real stories. And so I'm in the media capital of the world, I think-- New York City. There was endless publishing companies that had-- a lot of them had business-to-business titles. And so I ended up getting hired by, of all things, a daily metals and mining publication.
Stuart: 00:13:54.755 Oh, there you go.
Seth: 00:13:55.782 It was called the American Metal Market, which is now owned by-- it's the London Metals Report or something like that; I forgot they merged in. But it was really one of the oldest-- it goes back to the 1800s-- this publication. And so I was just a grunt reporter. I would have to just-- it was just one of these-- you had a pod of editors, and then the reporters kind of sat around, or they were in different corners, and it would be like, "Fineberg, give me six inches on this. Give me nine inches on that." The computer that I wrote on-- it had a program-- it was called XyWrite. So some of us in the field would know what that is. It was something that put something into column inches for you, and you would type that in and hit send, and it would go off to the editor's desk, and then you would just sort of wait just feverishly because you couldn't [inaudible] unless you had to go to the loo. The deadline was 1 o'clock. By 2:00 it was done, done, done for the day. But by, usually, 1:00, 1:30, unless something was really breaking, you pretty much had to be within eye or earshot of-- an editor would raise their hand and go, "Over here," and they'd have to-- they'd fact-check things on the spot. You'd have to bring-- I'd be there with my notepad. I eventually learned to love it and hate it at the same time. It's like being a chef in a kitchen, which, by the way, is the only other thing I ever wanted to do was cook; that's my only other real passion, other than music-- I know there's no money in, and so I've just been playing in bands for that long just for fun and just to keep young and all that. But, yeah, it really was like being a young chef in the kitchen. You were abused and yelled at and berated left and right, but it made you really focus and think. And so that's how I got into business journalism. I just sort of stayed with it. I wrote about venture capital. I got to interview some pretty great names like Jeff Bezos and Marc Benioff when they were first getting their venture money for their new ideas back in the '90s. I saw that original bubble grow and burst.
Seth: 00:15:53.523 And I was one of the few-- folks who were in that field at the time were like, "Yeah. This is not going to last very long. You got 24- 25-year-old kids getting out of university-- top universities with an idea for a dot com or some piece of tech, and no business plan whatsoever." Good on you, Harvard. Good on you, Stanford. You just took all this money-- millions of dollars, you blew it on big parties and marketing. And I know, because I was at a lot of those parties.
Stuart: 00:16:25.539 Yeah. You were there.
Seth: 00:16:27.030 Oh, yeah. I was out in San Francisco a few times a year. New York was also really bubbling too; Texas as well. So I went down there a couple of times-- Miami a couple times. But, by and large, a Boston, of course, where a lot of these things were happening-- because I was working at the time for my very first online publication. It was called channel7.com, and we were an offshoot of a web development shop. Those were pretty popular in the late '90s-- web dev shops. It was called Mercury 7, and eventually was rolled up into a much bigger company, which grew and crashed and burned called Exceed. They were on par with Razorfish and Organic, and they were pretty much like that. They wanted to do it all: PR, web design, marketing, this, that, technology. They just kind of also crashed and burned. We got sold off to another internet publishing conglomerate called internet.com. It was owned by this Alan Mechler, who some people might know. And that really gave me a real intro into online publishing, as well, and how different the voice is or can be. And I stayed with it to the point-- so accounting-- I stumbled across back in, again, a little over 20 years-- 2002, again, just looking for another job. They liked my experience at that point. And I didn't have-- they're like, "Hey. If you don't know anything about accounting, that's fine." And that's the great thing about trade journalism. You could really immerse yourself in some new topic, and if you knew what it took to put a good story together or just cultivate sources, as I did-- and that was the key, really, is getting that trust and cultivating those sources and being present-- being available-- getting the trust there, you did your job well. I just grew to really, really enjoy the profession, as I said, because I had an understanding. It kind of took the picture and made it whole. I could see the whole world at that point of, like, "Wow. Accounting really is at the core of all that makes business work."
Seth: 00:18:33.659 If business is really the lifeblood, the accountants are the little nanobots that help keep it running and moving, if you want to look at it that way. Or, if you don't want to get as techy, you can be like, they're the cardiologist that makes sure that your things are pumping-- they're moving.
Stuart: 00:18:53.953 So that, eventually, led to Accounting Web [inaudible].
Seth: 00:18:56.654 Accounting Web happened-- again, a few times in my career I've been freelance, looking for the next thing. I actually worked for Ad Age magazine for a little while. I was their B2B editor and reporter-- senior reporter and editor for B2B. Any business to business, marketing, advertising things going on, I was the guy. That was a gig that didn't last very long-- not for any fault of my own. Just, financially, they were just kind of like, "Well, you were one of the first new hires, and we have to let a bunch of people go. So here's your severance, and good luck to you." So at that time, again, I was freelancing. I was doing a little work for Joe Woodard. I was writing for [Intuitive Account?], and I was doing a little writing for Accounting Today. I was keeping involved in the things that I knew, regarding accounting tech and accounting-- the profession. I had met some wonderful people already, and along comes this British fellow, Andy North, who was our publisher. And he found me on LinkedIn and was like, "Hey. We need an editor for America for the US." He's like, "I was flown over here to kind of right the ship and get the business going." We had some pretty deep conversations just about the overall business model, even well before I was hired. I said, "Look. If you're going to hire me, we have to have a different approach. We can't just be another accounting publication. Because right now Accounting Web," at that time, was struggling because they weren't differentiating themselves. They were in the same advertiser and sponsor or pool as all the other titles. So, like, "What are we going to do? What are we going to put out there in the market that's different?" And so we came up with this approach of really marrying editorial and marketing together, and figuring out how it can be seamless and how it can, also, still be useful and profitable at the same time.
Seth: 00:20:46.956 And so that is, pretty much, where we came up with this idea of, like, "Wow. We're actually more of a community site. We're a destination. We're anything but a real publication, in the traditional term." We were never in print anyway and-- not that you need to be to be a publication. But we just believed in the ideas that I had laid out earlier in our conversation about what I believe of the impact of content on trust-- on being informative, being practical, and useful. That was our mantra. That was our mission statement is to produce content that was practical and useful to an accounting professional. So if you went to work every day as an accounting professional in a firm-- not usually in-- and we made that distinction. It's like, you're not, necessarily, a business industry. You're actually the person who's on the outside, helping them out with their books-- with their taxes-- with their compliance-- business direction-- everything. We're for you. We're who you need to be reading because we're here to help you. And if you want news and other things-- you want to find out what's going on in the profession. I came in saying, "You know what? I felt the profession was covered." It was well-covered by my colleagues in the accounting press; we needed to do something else. And I felt that we finally were able to put that on stage, literally, last year during our live event. And that was really going to be our next iteration and where the business, itself, was going to go. Just timing didn't really work out for us with that. We had a parent company in the UK that is-- they're still around. Accounting Web is still a big title over there, but they just were having trouble sustaining us and them. And I know that it was difficult to close us. So that brings us to end of August-- September 1st of last year. I had to figure out where it is that I wanted to go.
Seth: 00:22:41.446 So I started having some conversations with Ian and a few others out there-- people that I knew and have known for some time. And they were all like, "You should continue doing what you're doing and find support for what you're doing, because you're thinking in the right direction." And it was great to hear, because I do believe in this steward. I do believe in content and the right relationships. And I know I've mentioned this several times already, but it can't be stressed enough. The individual problems that you see the profession facing, from a staffing point of view-- from getting our heads around new technology and what are we going to do about this-- what are we going to do about that-- how do I evolve my business beyond point A, where I first started, to, maybe, just doing something else-- something else of value-- all of these things I feel require trust in the technology and services, the partnerships, really-- the potential partnerships that are available to you to help you do just that. Because there's a myriad of choices out there. And if you look at the entire field, that can be very overwhelming. But usually, in an accountant's life, it's like, "Oh, man. I wish I had something that did this better." And chances are, there probably is something out there that is, and you need to know about it and you need to talk to them and help them partner with you, because they're there to help you. And by helping you, it helps them, and, again, all boats rise.
Stuart: 00:24:08.995 How do you think the traditional vendors have evolved compared to some of the newer ones?
Seth: 00:24:16.472 Well, I mean, they've had to be more responsive, I think. And it's tough, too, as you get bigger. And it's just business. I hate to write it off that simply and that quickly and flippantly, but it is, and they have to look at their bottom line and where business is coming in from and all of that. And it's not that they don't care about the relationship with the accountant. I think that they should a bit more. Maybe, at one time, some of them did, and they're starting to, maybe, not behave that way. I'm not naming names, but I'm seeing it happen and I'm seeing tempers fray a bit over it. And I've seen it before, as companies get bigger. I saw it with some of the bigger product names out there. I think Microsoft comes to mind. At one point you had some of these firms and businesses that they brought up on Microsoft. [inaudible] "Man, I was with you since 3.1 or Windows 95 and--"
Stuart: 00:25:16.196 95. Yeah. [inaudible].
Seth: 00:25:18.305 Yeah. We were a Microsoft shop through and through. Outlook did everything for me, and you evolved your CRM system based on your Outlook and then Office 365 and all these things. They had partners, too, that were helping them resell and do all of the implementation and all of the real grunt work on behalf of these products, and, all of a sudden, they started feeling a little bit brushed aside, too. And, thing is, it happens. But with the accounting profession, the difference, to me, is-- all gets back to that trust. If an accountant doesn't trust you any longer-- that you are truly a partner for them, and not just someone who wants to take their or their client's money-- just that feeling-- I mean, they might-- at the end of the day, that's the reality. But if they don't feel that way, then all's going to be good. If they don't feel like they're reaching out to you more with the evolution of their products and services that are supposed to be for accountants and the work that they do vis-a-vis the client work, they're going to have a bigger problem with you. And with the amount of choices that there are now versus even 10 years ago, I would be concerned. I don't care that you're a multi-billion dollar company or a known name or they've been using you for 10 years-- 20 years. You lose that trust, it's going to take a long time to get it back, if ever. So that's how I feel that it's changed-- well, it's one way, Stuart, that I feel that things have changed with the traditional-- I'm using finger quotes for no one who's on-- for anyone who's not on video-- the "traditional" software companies. Which is still funny to say, but, yeah, there is the old guard, and then there's this app over here that doesn't require all this other stuff and-- it's fun times, man; it really is.
Seth: 00:27:18.103 But, again-- so whatever I feel that I can do, I'm going to help with this transition to the next phase of accounting, which is coming-- which some of it is here already. I've seen a lot of the-- as much as there's the traditional software vendor, there's the traditional accounting firm-- CPA firm of old. And a lot of that has aged out or is in the process of doing so in the next few years. And so people more my age-- my generation are running things, or even younger. A lot of millennial run firms-- possibly, even some early gen Z run firms.
Stuart: 00:28:00.750 The TikTokers. Hey? I can imagine you, Seth, rocking on TikTok.
Seth: 00:28:04.780 I don't do that. My kid seems to love the TikTok. It's not--
Stuart: 00:28:11.908 You never know. There's still hope for you.
Seth: 00:28:15.474 So how business is getting done and the folks that advise them and keep them compliant and all those things-- just the whole structure of how firms do things-- how work is done, everything really has changed and is changing. And rather than this wave of change that I've seen-- and I wrote about this-- there's an article coming out in CPA Trendlines that is going to point attention to this factor that we're, pretty much, at the crest of this wave of change that's been growing, I would say, for the past 10 years. And I think accountants-- there's plenty of them that either-- if you're not riding it already, you run the risk of either getting out of the way, getting drawn under, or you're riding it.
Stuart: 00:29:08.876 Go to the golf course or get on board. Right?
Seth: 00:29:11.267 I don't know if you surf at all, Stuart, but--
Stuart: 00:29:13.283 A little bit. Most Aussies don't have a choice; they grow up going to the beach.
Seth: 00:29:18.336 Yeah. It's just kind of-- you're on the coast, mostly. I did too. I grew up on the Jersey Shore here in the states. I tried; I wasn't much of a surfer. I was fine. You're just kind of diving into a wave and letting it carry me. I was good at the body boarding; I was fine at that. That was cool. Or you have a little--
Stuart: 00:29:34.785 It's always a worry when you come out-- when you're upside down. Yeah. That's right.
Seth: 00:29:40.652 Yeah. Exactly. You [inaudible] dumping sand out of your shorts and whatnot. But that was fine for me, but I knew plenty of kids who did. But the point is that, if you're not prepared to really ride that and be with it and let it carry you to your next destination, it could be pretty scary. It could be scary just in and of itself; it just is.
Stuart: 00:30:02.155 What do you think is the next big thing for the technology in accounting industry?
Seth: 00:30:08.173 Well, I think we're already seeing it, man. It's just the next level of automation; that being, of course-- people think it's a misnomer to call it, "Artificial intelligence," but, really, it's just another degree of automation that's there. Cloud and cloud tech was from 10 years ago.
Stuart: 00:30:24.294 Yeah. I think we're all fully clouded out. Aren't we?
Seth: 00:30:26.410 Or clouded up.
Stuart: 00:30:27.651 Or nearly clouded up.
Seth: 00:30:30.297 This is how you work. You download an app, you log into a site on your browser, you're part of the system that's doing your work, you're there with your clients just like we're here on the screen together, and that's just almost the normal way-- or you're exchanging things electronically. Whatever it is is likely cloud- or SaaS-based, at this point, by and large. And so doing all of that behind the scenes is the tech that you all have built in to do it. Or maybe you've even built in some degree of AI into what you do to just crunch things and make things go a little faster-- a little more seamless just so you can get on with what you do, as a human, better. So we're just really at the very beginning stages of it. I remember first starting to hear the words, "Machine learning and AI," in regards to accounting, I would say, maybe, about six, seven years back. You started first hearing it from the big-- the core vendors in the space-- the core accounting platforms. They all had something. Some of them had some chat already built into it. You could talk to QuickBooks. You could talk to Sage. You could talk to Xero about pulling up some chart of accounts or some expenses-- whatever-- just basic, basic stuff. And obviously, with GPT-4, ChatGPT, and other iterations-- things like that that are, maybe, getting the spotlight now, ultimately, that type of thing is just going to be a part of what is doing some of the work and some of the things that, maybe, you don't necessarily feel like doing or takes up some of the time doing. And I think that accountants are at a point, too, with all of what-- the question 10 years ago was, "Oh, man. With all this automation going on--"
Stuart: 00:32:19.968 Will I have a job?
Seth: 00:32:21.673 "---do I have a job, or how do people pay me? I can't charge an hourly rate anymore. It doesn't feel right because all this is getting done so fast-- or what do I do with that time?" A lot of folks were not taught what to do with the extra time that they, technically, now have. If you're strict about it, you now have that extra time in your day. It's a little scary when you're used to working a certain way, and all of a sudden, you don't have to. Well, the good news is, for you, Mr. and Mrs. Professional, is that it's still going to require a human being to interpret some of the data and to just still be the one who is the main one explaining things to your clients-- to your customers, what it is that they've discovered with the reports that they now have, thanks to automation that they've invested in or have signed up to do. It's funny just how-- again, 10 years ago I-- or even a little longer. Was it 2013? I would say go back to, even, 2010-- 2011, starting to hear about how automation is-- well, for one, I started hearing about how cloud was, ultimately, going to kill the IT department; that was a big one. And some of them-- I think IT departments and the whole idea of what the IT department is or does or the IT professional does-- it's just been reimagined a bit more. Security is still a major, major concern. The more we use tech, the more we're involved in using our browsers-- using our phones-- using applications. It can't be stressed enough that this is something to stay on top of. So there's some accounting professionals who have chosen, like, "You know what? I'm going to get to know why these things happen. I'm going to get to know how to do things more securely. I could maybe, even, advise my clients the same way, once I'm trained up to do that."
Stuart: 00:34:23.715 That all makes sense. So for you, Seth, as we wrap up here today on the Accounting Leaders podcast, where should we look out for you and your musings? And have we got you writing on the Karbon blog yet? Has Ian sorted that out?
Seth: 00:34:36.721 He has not.
Stuart: 00:34:37.457 Oh, that's a bit remiss of him. Isn't it? We better make that happen.
Seth: 00:34:42.427 I know that we talked about doing some kind of fireside chat thing. But also, he did mention to me-- he wasn't totally remiss. He did mention to me [inaudible] he's like, "Yeah." He's like, "We should get you writing." And I'm like, "Sure, man. Let's do that. Happy to do that."
Stuart: 00:34:57.748 Let's make that happen. It's cold enough here for a fire, but I haven't got one yet. Then we would've had a fireside chat today, but we can manage that.
Seth: 00:35:04.950 [inaudible]. Whatever works, man.
Stuart: 00:35:07.953 Fantastic. Well, Seth, it's been great to catch up with you. Thank you for everything that you've contributed to the industry over the years, and I'm sure will continue to do so. Seth Fineberg, thanks for being on the Accounting Leaders podcast. Thanks for listening to this episode. If you found this discussion interesting, fun, you'll find lots more to help you run a successful accounting firm at Karbon magazine. There are more than 1,000 free resources there, including guides, articles, templates, webinars, and more. Just head to karbonhq.com/resources. I'd also love it if you could leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to this podcast. Let us know you like this session; we'll be able to keep bringing you more guests for you to learn from and get inspired by. Thanks for joining, and see you on the next episode of the Accounting Leaders podcast.