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It's the final episode of 2021! Zach and Stephen join forces and pontificate about the lessons they've learned in stepping into their new leadership roles this year: Stephen as Executive Director of Forerunner Mentoring and Zach into his role at The Mentoring Alliance in Waco.
Show Notes
It's the final episode of 2021! Zach and Stephen join forces and pontificate about the lessons they've learned in stepping into their new leadership roles this year: Stephen as Executive Director of Forerunner Mentoring and Zach into his role at The Mentoring Alliance in Waco.
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. We are coming to you live in the 2021 leadership summit of You Can Mentor in Waco, Texas. Zagharza, how how are you?
Speaker 3:I'm great. Just let me paint a picture of the 2021 You Can Mentor Leadership Summit. Just Steve and I are sitting here at a table that's filled with markers and ChapStick and water bottles.
Speaker 2:And Purell. Just trash. It's it's it's just like the first day we launched the podcast. Honestly, it's not much different.
Speaker 3:And just, like, writing all sorts of nonsense on a whiteboard about how to change the world through mentoring. So it's not that cool. I'm just gonna be honest with you.
Speaker 2:I mean, it is a summit. We're gonna count it.
Speaker 3:What is a summit? I don't know. It sounds
Speaker 2:so cool. Regional leaders all together. Regional leaders. Regional leaders.
Speaker 3:We're regional leaders.
Speaker 2:I'm I'm a regional leader of the You Can Mentor podcast, Zach. I don't know if you knew that.
Speaker 3:There's, like, 4 of us. I think that's what's so funny is, like, you can start something, and it's like the most wheels off operation that you think about for, like, 2 hours a week. Yes. But you sound so official.
Speaker 2:The further we move apart, the bigger You Can Mentor becomes. Yeah. So this is only the beginning.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna move to, like, China just so I could be, like, the national. This is worldwide. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Not national. International You Can Mentor. Multiple countries.
Speaker 2:I did I did notice we had listeners in Mongolia. So, hey, Ulan Badr out there. Thanks for listening to the You Can Mentor podcast.
Speaker 3:I just don't know how accurate those rankings are.
Speaker 2:It is there's no way. It's not real.
Speaker 3:I just feel like there's a dude in his basement in like, you know, like Ohio who's like, I'm gonna create this site called podcast rankings.com, and just making stuff up.
Speaker 2:There's a website called Chartable that'll show you where you rank in certain nations that listen to your podcast. And we are ranked 67th in Ghana in the religion and Christianity category. So just just wanna flex on them real quick.
Speaker 3:Flex on them. Yes, Steven. You do a lot of flexing on people.
Speaker 2:What? In Ghana, there's like you got the Joel Osteen podcast. You got, I don't know who else they're listening to over there. And then there's us. You can mentor.
Speaker 3:Alright. Let's get back to talking about mentoring in Jesus.
Speaker 2:Yes. So today's episode, we thought we would discuss how it's going with our transition. So Zach put me in charge of 400 Mentoring. Really, the lord installed me, but Zach just gave his approval. And, I mean, it's it's been a journey taking over an organization, leading an organization from, really a place where I've I've only worked as peer with most of the people I'm now boss.
Speaker 2:And so we just thought it'd be great to have a conversation about the lessons that we've learned in our transition. Zach's now working at the Mentoring Alliance in Waco. I'm in Dallas with 4 100 Mentoring. I'm sure I've learned a lot more than you have. Yours yours is more of, like I don't know what you call that, a lateral move.
Speaker 2:Mine's more of a I I don't know what you call that.
Speaker 3:A step up. Promotion. Yeah. Promotion.
Speaker 2:So yeah. Promotion. So, I mean, I I've definitely had a lot more growing pains, I think. But even in the same way, like, you moved to pioneer a new mentoring program, so I'm sure there's some pains involved in that as well. Most definitely.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I think I would argue with you. Surprise. Surprise. I would argue with you about the fact that you have learned more because I feel like I've learned an absolute ton. So so this podcast episode is really for for mentoring leaders.
Speaker 3:And, I mean, we're talking about everything from how to succeed a founder, to how to go from the number 2 seat to the number 1 seat, to how to go from a small nonprofit to a large nonprofit, how to go from the number 1 seat in a smaller organization to the number 2 ish seat in a larger nonprofit. We're talking about pioneering a new nonprofit in a new city where you don't really know anyone and then following up an executive that had a lot of connections in a community, and now you have to kinda not only carry on those relationships, but make a new name for yourself while putting your own stamp or your own gifts and talents and skills on the nonprofit that you inherited.
Speaker 2:Without being 6 foot 8.
Speaker 3:Without being a jerk. So there's a lot here, and not all of this will apply to everyone, obviously. But I do feel like just in Steven and I having this conversation, which we haven't had before. So this podcast isn't like we talked about it and then we said we should have this podcast. No, like we said we should talk about our challenges and successes on the podcast.
Speaker 3:So we just hope that y'all can learn something. So Yeah. And I mean, just honestly kinda like what we always say is, this isn't Steven and I have all the answers. It's we're figuring this out as we go, how to lead a nonprofit, how to mentor well, how to engage more mentors to make disciples. And we're just inviting you guys in on that with us.
Speaker 3:So today, I do care about you guys learning how to be a better mentor and a better leader, but really I'm just selfishly doing this for myself because it'll help me, Steven, to hear from you. Yeah. So, all right, so I'll start.
Speaker 2:Okay. We're
Speaker 3:done. What is something that the Lord has shown you in this last 6 or 7 months of transition into being an executive director?
Speaker 2:I think the thing that I thought was gonna be the most challenging ended up being the most challenging, which was just, I think, the responsibility of being the leader of an organization requires you to man up, you to step up, and father the organization. And I I mean, I I feel, for the last 5 or 6 years, god's calling on my life to be a father, but also ill equipped, not prepared. I mean, Ben was a surprise. I have a 19 month old. And getting thrown into fatherhood, I was like, I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:And I'm just figuring it out as I go. Now I have a 3 week old, another child. And in that same process, now I'm being tasked with fathering an organization of boys who don't have fathers in their life. And so that weight of feeling unprepared that I'm I'm not as skilled or, feel as confident as I would hope, I think, was my my biggest fear. And and now I will say that my experience has been, I'm so grateful that I'm getting to learn and grow in this role in the things that I feel called to.
Speaker 2:And that, in a way, God had to put me in that situation to grow those things in me. It wasn't that I was going to have them, and then he's gonna put me in. It's like I don't know. It's not like a puzzle piece. It's like you put me there, and then you expand me into what your calling was for my life, not I'm gonna grow you over here and then, okay, now you're ready.
Speaker 2:Now I'm gonna I'm gonna put you in and it's gonna be a perfect fit. Mhmm. You're like, that's what I that's what I was hoping for, but I just realized that as leaders, God never puts you in situations where you're ready. He's wanting to stretch you. He's wanting to put you in uncomfortable challenging situations in that.
Speaker 2:The challenge isn't something to back down from. It's actually something to invite and to embrace. And and I think everybody on our, on our board understood that no, no one, when they were thinking about putting Steven in this role was like, you know what? Like, he's got everything. It, everything it takes to, to do this deal.
Speaker 3:No. Actually, we said you don't have anything that it takes. We said, like, there's 5 things that you had to have to be an executive director, and you only had one of those things. But the one thing that you did have was the most important. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:That's a heart for the Lord and a heart that is humble enough to submit and to learn and
Speaker 2:I remember you handed me what what's John Maxwell's, like, 21 irrefutable laws of leadership. And I, like, read it, and I was like, yeah. I'm a 2 here, maybe a 4 here, like a 7. And I, like, brought that to my interview.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And you guys I don't even know if you read it. You were just like
Speaker 3:We didn't. It was so long. That kinda goes back to the one pager. Anything over 1 page, I don't read.
Speaker 2:Yes. But I I I really appreciate the support, the the confidence that you guys had in me to grow as you installed me in that in the in the role. And I think that that's been transformative for me and is continuing to be. I still don't feel completely equipped, completely, like like I'm in a rhythm, and I feel comfortable in in my role. I'm still stretching.
Speaker 2:I'm still in process.
Speaker 3:Well, I think what I hear you saying, Steven, is, 1, you you didn't feel like you had what it took to lead a nonprofit. And I just want you to know that like most people don't feel that. And I don't know if I've ever felt that, and I might even say if there's a day whenever I do feel that, that might be a yellow flag. Maybe not a red flag, but it might be a okay. Am I getting too cocky here?
Speaker 3:Am I relying too much on my own strength here? No. And then what I hear you saying is just like you're so grateful for those people who have helped you along the way. As you got tossed into the ocean and you didn't know how to swim, there have been people who have helped you stay afloat, whether it's the board, whether it's your staff, whether it's hanging out with like other executives who are kind of going through the same thing. And then just the benefits of taking that risk of, like, okay, Lord, I don't feel equipped.
Speaker 3:I don't feel prepared, but I'm gonna do this. Mhmm. I'm gonna step out in faith and just seeing how God has provided and how he's taken care of you and how he who calls you has been faithful.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So And I know that in in the process of this transition, one of the concerns that you brought up was, is Steven going to be willing to ask for help, or is he just gonna try and rough it out and do it do it his own? And we're still struggling through that of I don't know if that's just my Enneagram too or if it's family of origin issues. I think it's a mixture of all of that. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I think Enneagram is also
Speaker 3:all
Speaker 2:of the stuff that you are jacked up, like, when you're a child. That's how you operate now. So that's sad. But, like, I wanna prove myself, and I wanna be able to do things to present that I'm okay, and I got this. But at the end of the day, I don't know what I'm doing, and I need to reach out, and I need to invite people in and be more dependent and not self reliant.
Speaker 3:And I'll say a common lie that I think us as mentoring leaders, whether we're executives or just in charge of something, the common lie that I believe is other people have it all together and I don't. And what I've realized by talking to mentoring executives all across the spectrum is everyone feels that way.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:No one really has a great grasp on what they're doing. We're all trying to like bumble and fumble and figure it out. And it's like inching towards like success. Like, we're inching towards godliness. We're inching towards, like, improvement.
Speaker 3:It's it's kind of a I think it's a lie that the enemy tells us that you don't have it altogether, but that person does, and you're less than. So Yeah. I think that's one way that he tries to tries to take us out. Yeah. So I mean, because I I'll sit here and say I don't know what I'm I since I've gotten here and started a new mentoring organization in a new city, I'll say that, like, I have I have questioned myself a lot.
Speaker 3:I'll say just a couple of things that have kinda stuck out to me is like a different community is a different community. And what works in one community may or may not work in the other. But every community has its unique challenges, whether it's networking or open doors or relationships with churches, relationships with schools, funding. Like, it's just a different animal. So, yes, there are some things that every mentoring nonprofit kinda should focus in on Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Whether it's safety or equipping their mentors or taking care of making sure that you're on the same page with the parents. But then, like, everything else is kinda well, it just kind of depends, you know, whether it's fundraising or staffing or anything like that. So, yeah.
Speaker 2:Mike, it can look completely different. It can
Speaker 3:look totally different, yeah, just depending on the community and what is already in the community, what is not in the community, who's willing to partner with you, the history of other nonprofits or churches or programs that have tried to do what you're doing that came before you.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:So if you're coming into a new community and you're like, hey, I really want a mentor, and everyone in the community is like, we had a mentoring organization, and they kinda burned bridges. So now we're really kinda it might take a while for us to for us to toss out our trust. So Yeah. Those are just things that you don't really have any control over. So
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's good. I for me, I think leadership exposes all of my issues, or at least pronounces them in a way that didn't when I was just working under you. I wrote down a few of them. Like, when I worked for you, I could wing it.
Speaker 2:I could walk into any meeting and and just track with you, like, based off of the questions that you were asking, I could wing it. Now that I'm the leader, if I don't come prepared, everybody's lost. Mhmm. And we have no focus, and everybody's looking to wing off of me. But if I don't got no wings, nobody can wing it.
Speaker 2:And that that has been so such a difficult thing for me because I I recognize people are looking to feed off of me and what I'm bringing into the meeting and what I'm contributing. And it's always helpful when your leader is leading and not just trying to feed off of the people that are around them. And and so sending agendas to the meetings that I'm planning to lead and not just a theme or something. Here's the decision that I'm wanting us to make, or here's a conversation I'm wanting us to have. I think in leadership, I realized that my preparation isn't just for me.
Speaker 2:It's for the organization. It's for everybody. And before I was the leader, preparation was just for me. Like and it it means so much more now that I'm the executive director.
Speaker 3:Yep. I mean, I for me, it it takes me longer to prepare for a meeting than it does to actually have the meeting, which, like
Speaker 2:I hate that.
Speaker 3:Is so mind boggling to me. Like, it'll take me an hour to prepare for, like, a 35 minute meeting. But I think that's being respectful and responsible because you're being as efficient and effective during those 35 minutes, which honors your team, honors their time. You come prepared. You have a have a win.
Speaker 3:And it's like you're preparing an hour so that the meeting doesn't last an hour when it only should have lasted 26 minutes.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Right? So Yeah. That's good.
Speaker 2:I also wrote, yeah, dependence versus self reliance. Like, that That has been a stark contrast since I became the executive director that I realize the areas that I am relying on myself, and I'm realizing my staff wants to help me, and I'm not allowing them or or whatever. Shortly after I transitioned into the role, I ruptured my Achilles, 1 star would not recommend. Mhmm. But that process, it didn't just encourage me.
Speaker 2:It spurred me on to ask for help. Like, I could not walk without people supporting me.
Speaker 3:I mean, which, like, I can't help but think that that was, like, such a god thing. Like, god's like, He wants to do this all on his own? I'm gonna rupture his Achilles on a wilderness trike trike trike. Yeah. Well Thank you, lord.
Speaker 2:I have not come to terms with whether that was the lord or not, but I know that he's used it. Yes. God is sovereign. He's sovereign, Zach. Let me tell you.
Speaker 2:But but just knowing that god wants to spur me on to ask for help. And I've realized just in in the the last 6 months of running 4 Runner that so many people are just waiting for me to ask. They're just they're sitting and waiting, and they're not they're not going to impose. They're just waiting for me to reach out. I I know I've had multiple conversations with people that say, whatever you need, please let me know.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And I know they're not that's not pleasantries. It's they're they're being they're being honest. They're saying, I support this organization and wanna help, but they're waiting for me.
Speaker 3:Well, it's so interesting because the lie that the enemy tells you is you're gonna be a bother to them. But really what you're doing is because you don't wanna be a bother, you're taking away an opportunity for someone to use their God given gifts to advance the kingdom.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And so it's like, man, what a crafty lie to, like, keep one person from being, like, helped and another person from doing what they were made to do to serve the kingdom. And so it's like allowing people to help, giving people opportunities, not believing that you have to or can or should do it all. It's just so interesting to me. And I mean, I'm still not awesome at it, but, but yeah, that's good, Steven. Anything else you got in
Speaker 2:there? Yeah. I mean, asking to help, allowing others, I trust to influence the decisions that I'm trying to make Mhmm. Seeking wise counsel, which that's something that I've always assumed that seeking wise counsel meant that you had to do exactly what other people told you to do and that everybody had to agree. And I've asked a a few people that I trust, like, about decisions, and I've gotten completely different answers.
Speaker 2:And they're colored by their experiences, and sometimes I've disagreed with the wise counsel I've received and felt like I'm a maverick trying to take the organization in a completely different direction. And it was encouraging for you to speak into that and say, like, your job is to seek wise counsel and then make a decision. If you make a decision without seeking wise counsel, that's not wise. But just because you go a different direction doesn't mean you're rejecting the wisdom. It's just you see things differently, and we're gonna see what happens.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. I've lived in in an assumption that whatever Zach says is what I have to do or whatever my board chairman thinks is now the direction I need to go because that's the way that I honor you is just doing everything that you say. But, really, what you've tasked me with is leading the organization, me making decisions, and I honor you through inviting you into the process that I'm walking through. And that I mean, that's really helpful. If everybody's saying, hey.
Speaker 2:I think you should really consider going this direction. Yes. Maybe I should be smart enough to be like, oh, okay. Everyone thinks differently than me, and maybe I should trust them. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Maybe this guy that started E*TRADE, maybe he knows a little bit about, you know, leading organizations. That's our,
Speaker 3:that's our board chairman, by the way. He's like the smartest guy we've ever met. Just,
Speaker 2:you know, I just, I, I just disagree with you, you know, about financial, you know, I mean,
Speaker 3:you're like, I've been doing this since you were born. Okay. I guess I'll listen to you.
Speaker 2:Beyond. I I wrote down something I learned was that, I need to be quick to make things right rather than be quick to make excuses. So whether that's apologies as the leader, like, I just know that I need to apologize and I need to change. So if I if I come into a meeting that I'm leading and I don't have an agenda and I realize that it's been a disruption, I need to I need to take personal responsibility and actively look for opportunities to apologize and to change. And that that's the kind of culture that I wanna create as the leader.
Speaker 2:I wanna confront problems and not just put up with them. I'm used to putting up with problems, and that's not a a shot at anybody in my life that I put up with. But it's just I just dismiss things and don't say something. And and yet I preach to our mentors and to all of our volunteers. See something, say something, and I won't do it.
Speaker 2:And so in leadership, you have to speak up before you convince yourself not to. And a part of that is just dying to myself and what people think about me based off of me saying something that may not be fully thought through, but it's just what I'm feeling. And sometimes when you share what you feel, it doesn't come off the right way and can probably offend, and I need to apologize for that. And I'm not used to being that person. I usually want to only it it it's like people who are stealing from Target.
Speaker 2:Like, the they teach their employees, you better be sure that they're stealing before you go tackle them. Because if they're not stealing something and you tackle them, then we're gonna get a lawsuit. That's my approach. It's like, I wanna be a 100% sure that you're in the wrong before I say anything, and that's just not the way
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:That I don't think it's sustainable, and it doesn't work. I have to step out and take a risk in confronting problems before I'm certain. Yep.
Speaker 3:I mean, like, I think just doing the right thing, you know, and trusting that the Lord has given you an eye for that and that the Lord has put you in charge to be the shepherd. And if you see and you think that there's something wrong with the sheep or that there's danger, go and take action. One of one of my favorite phrases that I've said on this podcast is when you see something that you think is off, go up to and say, hey. I could be off here, but I think I see this. And then just putting it out there and, hey, let's have a conversation.
Speaker 3:I could be right. I could be wrong. Either way, I just wanna talk about it. And I think that that's godly. I think you're shining a light on a potentially dark situation because the the worst thing that could happen is they say, no, I think you're wrong.
Speaker 3:And then kind of back to what you said, you just say, hey, man, I'm sorry. That's my bad. If you're right, then that helps them get better. That helps them lead better and do their job and etcetera. So it's just kind of a win win if it's done well and with honor.
Speaker 3:So good job, bud. I think for me, I'll kinda chime in here.
Speaker 2:I know. I'm I'm like on my soapbox. I'm just trying to beat you because you said you learned more than I did, and I'm like, well, prove it.
Speaker 3:I think for me, just I I think I've learned that competition amongst peers is just ungodly. Just just I'm just kidding. I think for me, I I mean, one, as a just as it pertains to you, just as a founder, I mean so just to kinda give you an insight, and I think I've told this to Steven, but my, approach to Steven's succession has been kinda hands off. I mean, I haven't called him a ton. We've maybe spoken 5 times because I wanted to give him the space to really run the nonprofit the way that he felt like it should be run.
Speaker 3:And I also know that we have a have a really capable board that is taking care of them, is taking care of him and is supporting him. So also, I know that I'm a really strong leader, and I don't think it would be fair for Steven if I was in the room for a long period of time because I want him to be I want him to have the feeling that he's in charge. But I I have kinda taken my hands off, and I have let Steven turn forerunner into his mentoring nonprofit. And it looks different. He has done things that I would have done differently.
Speaker 3:But just because it's different doesn't mean that it's wrong. And so I have really enjoyed watching Steven put his own spin on how he made hires and how he changed job descriptions and how he's dealing with his staff and how he's dealing with mentors. Like, here's kind of a kind of a small example, but, like, we had our had our Christmas party this past week. And Steven's Christmas parties look a lot different than my Christmas parties because Steven and I are different people. And whenever I found out what he was doing, my initial thought was that's not how I would do it.
Speaker 3:And da da da. Then I had to stop myself. I'm like, no. Like, this is Steven's Christmas party. Let him lead how he leads, and he did.
Speaker 3:And he did a fantastic job. And I would even venture to say that his Christmas party was better than mine. But that is just an example, and I understand that that's kind of a silly example. But that's an example of my way is not the only way. And oftentimes, my way is not the best way.
Speaker 3:So how kind of the Lord was it for him to put Steven in charge to allow me to see that, like, hey, this nonprofit is bigger than you, Zach. This is mine. This is my vision, and I've entrusted it to the right person who's going to do things differently, but it's going to advance my kingdom in the right way for this season.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And so I think that that's so cool just as a founder to see that, like, God cares more about the organization and even a couple steps further than the kids and the families and the people that we serve
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Than he does who's in charge. So kinda cool.
Speaker 2:That's good.
Speaker 3:I've learned this concept of singular leadership, which I'm a little bit apprehensive to share about because
Speaker 2:You're not gonna have to unpack that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Because I'm not I'm not a hun I'm still working through it. But I moved to a new city. And as you move to a new city and I started a new nonprofit, I don't I don't really have a community yet. I'm still, you know, obviously me and my wife, we're trying to find a church and trying to find friends and do everything that you're supposed to do.
Speaker 3:But it is like how how do I lead myself whenever I really don't have anyone else to lean on? And I think
Speaker 2:I
Speaker 3:think I'm not a 100% sure on this, but I think in the past, I might have leaned too much on mentors and on other people due to my insecurities. So kind of like what you said, seeking wise counsel, go to 2 or 3 people. Well, I think I didn't go to 2 or 3. I think I went to 7 or 8. And I did that because I was so insecure with the decision that I that I was making and because I didn't feel confident.
Speaker 3:And, you know, if I had an issue or if I was feeling a certain way, I would go to friends. I would go to mentors. I would go to colleagues. I would go to other executive directors. And I would go to a lot of different people before I went to the Lord.
Speaker 3:And so when I say singular leadership, what I'm saying is I'm kind of in this desert season where I'm kind of all alone. Yeah. I can pick up the phone and call, but I'm kind of by myself. But the Lord is meeting me there, and he's teaching me how to lead myself.
Speaker 2:And he's
Speaker 3:teaching me how, hey, Zach, if during the season I kind of have stripped you of all of your, like, dependence. I guess not dependence, but dependencies. And I want you to go solely to me and me alone and me first. And so he's he's teaching me how to process with him. He's teaching me how to rely on him, how to you know, he is my strong tower.
Speaker 3:He is my refuge. And while other people in community and friendships, while those are supports, please hear me say that, like, that is necessary and that is essential. But first and foremost, it's the Lord.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:So, yeah. Just like that's kinda my that's kinda my journey is as I'm leading my wife and leading my kids and leading this new nonprofit in a new city where I don't really have any support, how do I lead myself so that I can be the best version of myself for this season? Because I do believe that community and things like that will come. But it's just been a really sweet time. And I have found that spending time with the Lord, it's always a non negotiable, but like during the season, it's like for real non negotiable.
Speaker 3:So and I think he has increased my faith. I think he has strengthened me not only as a leader, but as a follower of Jesus. And I just know that he's good, and I know that he's up to something. So, yeah, just like really, really grateful for this season of kinda being out on my own in, you know, just this season of uncertainty, more or less, or new. Yeah.
Speaker 3:He's not new. So.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's challenging that God is comfortable removing good things from our lives to, I mean, give us an upgrade Mhmm. In other areas. So, I mean, this is this is an upgrade in your intimacy with God that is gonna make you a better man of God, better leader. But it it's not to say that the relationships you left weren't what you needed
Speaker 3:Sure. When you needed it. Yeah. And just to go a tad bit further, you know, yes, I have to rely on the Lord, but this has been incredibly sweet season with me and my wife, and me and my kids, because we're all that we got. And so that was an unexpected gift.
Speaker 3:It was like, you know, maybe back in back in Dallas, if I was free on a Thursday night, I would call up my friends. Well, now me and my family hang out and it's actually been really, really good. So I'll kind of the Lord to kind of give me that opportunity.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's good, man.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And then just like, I think patience has been just the overarching theme for me during this new season. Because honestly, like back in Dallas with 4 Runner, doors, doors kinda swung open.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And we did have a lot of favor. I think that we still do. Here in Waco, just, you know, doors haven't opened as quickly as I thought that they would. And I think that's okay because God's up to something. And I don't really know what that is yet, but maybe He's working on my heart.
Speaker 3:Maybe He's working on I can't tell you. But His ways are not my ways. And I know that He didn't call me here to, you know, to to kind of watch us fail. So just being patient that he who called me really is faithful, and he is up to something. And ultimately, I can trust that his ways are way better than my ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So It's better for you and for Waco.
Speaker 3:It is better for everyone. So
Speaker 2:And maybe, Lake Hounds. I don't I mean I mean, I have a ton more. I imagine I mean, I'd love for you to speak into what it was what your any any more experience as a founder leaving the organization that you built and the emotions behind that. I mean, because we've alluded to, like, the apostle Paul planning a church and being like, okay. I'm gonna go I'm gonna go over to Colossi and and plan another one.
Speaker 2:And and we don't get to hear the emotional aspect, the burden of building something, growing something, and then stepping away for for a bigger purpose, not just to to do something new, but to to grow and to develop and to give your life to mentoring and or really give your life to Jesus through raising up mentors. And and, like, that that that's the primary calling that I see on your life is, like, to raise up fathers, to break generational curses, to reverse the the curse. And and that that's what opened you up to making this jump. But I I wonder if you could speak into any other part of your transition from founder to now working for the the man. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I think that's good, Steven. And I think God someone once said this, like, the call is always the same, but the assignment might be different.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Right? So it's like, I believe that my call is to father and to make disciples through mentoring, through fathering, just that whole concept. And, you know, faithful with a little, master over much. So I started out as a junior high youth intern, and then I kinda finished that assignment. Then I then I moved on to a junior high football coach, And then I kinda finished that assignment.
Speaker 3:Then I started a a a small nonprofit. Then I kinda out outgrew that assignment. Then it was a midsize nonprofit. Right? I kinda outgrew that assignment.
Speaker 3:And now I'm working for a larger nonprofit. And so I think in saying all this stuff about being a founder and leaving, it's you've gotta be really plugged in to what the Lord's assignment is for you during that season. And then you've gotta have the obedience and the faith and the courage to kinda do what he's what you believe to the best of your ability to do what he's calling you to do during that season. And seasons might last 6 months. Seasons might last 6 years.
Speaker 3:Seasons might last 30 years. But the most important thing is what is God calling you to do? And what it does he have for you? And what is his vision for your life? And so it's like consistently in his presence, in your time with him, be asking yourself that question.
Speaker 3:And so ultimately, I left Forerunner because my vision and the vision of Forerunner, they weren't aligned anymore. And that's scary. That takes some courage. But I I felt like it was time to move on because I felt like the Lord just had a different mentoring assignment for me. And what's so cool there is, like, as I'm leaving, I'm also creating this opportunity for you to step into your next assignment.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And so, like, if I would have stayed there, which I could have stayed for probably the rest of my life, but, one, I might not be obedient to God's call for me or to God's next assignment because I'm scared or because I'm comfortable. But the next thing I'm doing is I'm keeping you from an assignment.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And so I think just this new opportunity for me has created more faith because I've had to trust, okay, God, like, this new assignment sounds crazy. This new assignment doesn't really make a lot of sense. But I'm finding out that this new assignment is exactly the right thing for me during this season, even if it doesn't look like how I think it should look. So I just know that he faith faithful with a little master over much, and sometimes that much part doesn't look like what you think it does. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:So I might be thinking much is building a larger nonprofit, but, really, he's saying much is I'm building into you more faith.
Speaker 2:Wow. Or
Speaker 3:I'm building into you more courage, or I'm building into you more patience, or more steadfastness, or a better marriage. Wow. Or, you know, more time with your kids, which, like, at the end of the day, if I'm 90 and I'm dying, and you say, Zach, would you rather have a large non profit that serves kids or a godly family? Which one? You have to choose 1.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:So you're gonna choose your family every time. How crazy would it be that if I would have stayed in Dallas, and I'll say now, as I look back at my time in Dallas, I probably spent more time on the nonprofit, on growing, on networking to the detriment of my family.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:How kind of the Lord to help me move into this new assignment so I could realize that. Wow. Kinda crazy,
Speaker 2:Man. So The thing you said about keeping keeping someone else from their assignment, that was what I felt when I transitioned from my college ministry role was I realized I'd I I was keeping someone else from experiencing the breadth of all the experiences that I had being in that role. And it it made it so much easier for me to let go, to be like, man, someone's gonna experience everything that I experienced, and how much did I grow through those things. And it's powerful when you realize the thing that you're letting go is making room for someone else.
Speaker 3:And I think both the moves that we made are humbling in their own ways. For me, I'm being humbled because I'm looking, and I probably said a couple times there's no way that this thing would be as good without me. But we're seeing that, and I'll I
Speaker 2:mean, look at the Christmas party.
Speaker 3:In a lot of ways, it's better. And I mean, just like that is so humbling, that this is God's ministry, not mine. And you know, just like going to a new city where I don't know anyone and now I'm not in charge, so I'm having to submit to someone else's vision, which is a good thing for me. You know? But for you, you're having to step into something that you might not feel qualified in, and that takes humility as well.
Speaker 3:And, like, you know, there's not much else in this world that god loves more than humility. Mhmm. So it's cool.
Speaker 2:That's good.
Speaker 3:Anything else?
Speaker 2:I have a few more rapid fire ones. My words carry more weight now that I'm the executive director. Mhmm. Good night. I've just had so many side comments that people have taken as gospel that I've had to reiterate and apologize for.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that's part of the partially, like, just my humor, as I realize, okay. I can't joke at the same level that I could when I wasn't in charge. And I know that's something that you always told me, but I never trusted you. I'm now seeing this is something from a book from John Tyson, the intentional father, that this just this has been ringing in my ears. The sentence that says, beware the soul sucking voice of reasonableness.
Speaker 2:I think, really, as leaders, the the vision that we're casting has to be filled with hope and filled with potential and future minded and not this kind of, like, you know, collective, conservative, well, maybe god will, but maybe he won't. And, well, let's just, you know, kind of play reserved. And as the leader, I'm I'm the one that needs to lead the charge on, like, let's not just be reasonable. Let's be lavish, and let's let's think about what is what does god's kingdom look like, and what does it look like in front of us, and how can we move to that future and, like, give up this mentality, the scarcity mentality that kinda leads us to living a lesser Mhmm. Lesser life.
Speaker 2:But, like, let's let's kinda move toward, like, the kingdom Yeah. And see that come and use that as our focus and not live reasonably. I love that quote. But we're the soul sucking voice of reasonableness.
Speaker 3:Man, I think one thing and I've seen a lot of this just as I'm not in charge as I've kinda taken a step back, but, like, just the privilege of a leader, like, really allowing the team to come together, to have voice, to have insight, to have input on the direction. I think I could have done a better job for that. So sorry, Murdoch, for being micromanaging out of fear. But just like there's so much power in a team. Like, I miss hanging out with you and Beth and the rest of the staff.
Speaker 3:There's this book by Malcolm Gladwell called The Bomber Mafia.
Speaker 2:The bomber mafia?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a good book. But it says this, The whole premise is like, there's a group of bombers in World War 2 that were, like, just tossing stuff up on the wall, trying to come up with the best way to, this sounds crazy, but to bomb their enemy to make the least amount of casualties amongst innocent people. Yeah. Like collateral damage. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So it says, revolutions are invariably group activities. I thought that that was that was good.
Speaker 2:I remember you sending that to us.
Speaker 3:Revolutions are birthed in conversation, argument, validation, proximity, and the look in your listener's eye that tells you that you're onto something. And so I just as I'm here kind of I mean, I have a staff, but like just being with you and the staff that I knew so well and we are also passionate about mentoring, just like the things that I miss is just like throwing stuff up on the wall and really just talking shop, like conversing about mentoring and best practices and safety and how to lead and how to better serve and how to make our kids feel worth and feel valued and how to make our moms feel loved and just like these, like, off the cuff conversations that spur us on to greatness. There's a lot of power in that. Yeah. So if you're a mentoring leader, I encourage you, as often as possible, get in the room with other mentoring leaders.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Because good happens. Like, it's so worth your time. And you'll take a look at your calendar and say, I don't have time for that. I encourage you to make time for it, because I don't know if I've ever been with mentoring leaders and, at the end of my time, said, that was a waste of my time. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:So there's power in that.
Speaker 2:Which I'm grateful that we started You Can Mentor before you left. So, I mean, that that's what we're doing here is trying to create a community that can feel as if we're creating a a mentoring revolution Yeah. And that we're in this together. A few a few others I I wrote down, which is similar to yours. Make decisions with people, not for people.
Speaker 2:And bringing people to the table, inviting them into the room, and not just telling people what to do. Mhmm. And I think you did you modeled that very well while you were at 4 Runner, and that that's something that I'm realizing. Okay. Now I'm the one that needs to bring people into the room and allow them to make decisions, allow them to influence where the organization goes.
Speaker 2:I wrote down a smile goes a long way. Apparently, I don't smile. One of our employees said that he thought I was, perpetually disappointed in him. And that hurt because I was like, I like you. And I guess I'm just when I'm thinking
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't smile. Yeah. And now that I'm the boss, I'm thinking a heck of a lot more
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I'm trying to navigate every part of the organization, and I don't smile. So
Speaker 3:Someone once said, your face is in ministry. And I was like, oh, God. Like, yes. So I have to legitimately, like, check my face before I walk into anywhere because I've just got that scowl when, like, people think I'm mad, but I'm really just, like, thinking about
Speaker 2:I do it in the car sometimes. Like, I see someone, like, while I'm driving, and I, like, smile at them. And then I look at my windshield like, my rearview mirror. And I look at my smile, and I'm like, oh my gosh. That's terrifying.
Speaker 2:That person probably thought I was mad at them.
Speaker 3:I'm happy. I swear.
Speaker 2:A few more. Stories empower others. So look for opportunities to consistently tell stories, and there's just so much going on. Stories invite people into the vision. See challenges as opportunities.
Speaker 2:Leaders with hope have the most influence. If I don't walk into the room with hope, people are gonna people aren't gonna be better off because of me. They're gonna be carrying me. And what I do is being replicated. There was a situation where I saw Beth do something that I did with her in a meeting.
Speaker 2:She did it with her reports, and then they did it with their reports. And that scared the life out of me. Because I was like, oh my gosh. Whatever I tell Beth, she's gonna tell them, and they're gonna do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that was frightening.
Speaker 3:Yep. Welcome. Welcome to leadership.
Speaker 2:So So, yeah. That's what I've learned, Zach.
Speaker 3:It's awesome, man.
Speaker 2:I've learned some other things, like dressing better and
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. It's good. It's good. Here's some more things that I've learned.
Speaker 3:Man, I have learned if you're an executive, you know, try your hardest to spend at least a little bit of time with kids from from time to time, you know? Yeah. You're out fundraising, strategic planning, doing your stuff and things like that. But man, it's just good for your soul to see the look in a kid's eye. You know, it's just it is that look that makes it that makes it worth it, man.
Speaker 3:And there's that. I have learned just that the Lord's definition of success is oftentimes different from our definition of success. You know, I've learned that just because it's bigger, that doesn't mean that's better. And every ministry has its own call. So don't look down upon the nonprofit that's serving 20 kids.
Speaker 3:That might be God's assignment for them. Same time, don't look bad. Don't don't think that the nonprofit serving 2,000 kids is bad either, because God has an assignment for them too. We all have a part to play in this discipleship, discipleship movement. And just because someone does it differently, doesn't mean it's wrong.
Speaker 3:And so there are we need as much help as we can get if we're gonna make disciples. And if we're gonna truly impact the greatest number of kids that we can in the name of Jesus, you know, it just takes a village. So all of us are on the same team. It's great. And just ask ask questions, get in the room with smart people, and just be humble.
Speaker 3:And just, Lord, here I am. Use me. Yeah. It's great. One thing that someone told me the other day is, Zach, I feel like you have a lot to offer.
Speaker 3:And I was like, Oh, thank you. You know, I was like, finally someone sees it. But then followed up with, But you also have a lot to learn.
Speaker 2:And I was like, Oh.
Speaker 3:I was like, That hurts. But what a great opportunity for me to always be growing. Yeah. And just, we're not always there, or it's okay if we're not there, and just keep on getting better, keep on putting yourself in situations that are risky, where that forces you to depend on the Lord and that will cause you to grow into someone who looks more like Him. And, yeah, that might mean more kids are discipled, more kids are mentored, but at the end of the day, it's all about you looking more like Jesus.
Speaker 3:And if you do that, any person, any kid that you come in contact with will be that much better.
Speaker 2:Alright. Are we committed to continuing to learn?
Speaker 3:I hope so because because if we're not, then that's a bad thing. That's just boring.
Speaker 2:If you're not going, you're not growing. I just tried to come up with something that didn't
Speaker 3:Get busy living or get busy dying. Shawshank. I love Shawshank, man. What a great movie. Anytime it's on PBS
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:Which Which is on TBS like 6 times a day. I always watch it. Maybe it's TNT. I don't know. Alright.
Speaker 3:Well, mentors, we love you. Mentoring leaders. Don't grow weary in doing good. Yes. You can mentor.
Speaker 3:Love your staff well. Encourage them. Pour into your mentors, tell them that you're doing a good job, care for people and know and care. Right? Spend time with people and build relationships because relationships change lives, first with Jesus and then with others.
Speaker 2:Come on.
Speaker 3:And let's go make disciples through mentoring.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You can mentor.
Speaker 3:You can. Bye.