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Hosted by Masi Willis and Shannon Scott, Lead Like You Mean It is a leadership podcast for those who want more than inspiration—they want impact. We’ll help you lead from the inside out, with tools that stick and some truth that stretches you.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:40)
All right, Mace, we're back. We are back. The Lead Like You Mean It podcast. Yes, we're going to do this today in a comfy place. And I feel like we have eased everybody in up to this point. Like we've been, we've been, you know, pretty professional and tried to make sure that everybody knew that we were serious, but that we weren't taking it lightly. Right. And I wanted people to know it is Lead Like You Mean It.
but you really got to understand leadership. So I feel like that's what we've done on the other episodes. Yeah, I agree. And one thing that we said in the first episode is that we want to tell the truth. Truth tellers. And part of what we have experienced is that leadership has not been fun. ⁓ We've been led poorly. We've also led poorly. Yes. And so that's the
kind of, I'd say the underbelly or the shadow side of talking about leadership is if you're only talking about how great it is and how to do it right, and you're not admitting when you've done it wrong, then we don't get very far. Well, when you think about it, we talk, we know we have to lead ourselves first and we don't lead ourselves that well either. We've got some leadership dominant talk happening in our heads or we've got some.
overprotection, like, I can have this hamburger because I walked 20 feet today. That's not good leadership. Exactly. That's not good self leadership. Although, mean, a hamburger, you said that and we haven't had lunch and now I'm hungry. Yeah, me too. So the most important person we're ever going to lead is ourselves. And that means that everyone is a leader because you're leading somebody and that somebody is often yourself.
And I think that's a lie that's been told to people. think that sometimes people are said, you know, I was born a leader. We were all born a leader or that person just their personality is just not a leadership one. I like to be a follower. Well, you might enjoy being a part of a team and having others in charge. But ultimately, yes, we are all leaders of self. And then we have to look at how that impacts family as well as team and organizations.
And so part of what you have developed is what you call the MILE framework for people development. excited. So today we're going to talk about that first letter. It's an acronym, which is and that ⁓ stands for mirror. So talk a little bit about why mirror and why that's the first letter. Yeah, I'll, I'll just kind of quickly frame out MILE. MILE really was the purpose for me as we were thinking about a framework. It's one thing.
We've talked about culture and defining culture and what does that mean with people and organizations. Now we're going to talk about once we have and understand why investing in people is crucial, we've got to have a framework to know how to develop and how to grow. And I chose Mile because it's not a sprint. I get a lot of people that want quick fixes and that's just not my ideal client. And I am okay to say no to those people. ⁓
fix exists? No, not for leadership and development. It's, it's the mentality of thinking that you could go to the gym and work out one time and be ripped and people, some leaders and organizations don't understand the value of investing. So that ⁓ in miles stands for mirror. And that's the first thing we have to do. One of the first things we do in the morning is look in the mirror at ourselves. And when we can turn a mirror on ourselves,
and we can evaluate, know ourselves, fully understand our natural behavior. This isn't, we're not gonna sit here and tell you, this is who you are and you need to be. This is a moment of development to say, hey, because I'm wired in my DNA and God made me this way, this is how I can predictively probably behave. Well, and wouldn't you say, you said we look in the mirror in the morning.
But I would say that other people know what we look like more than we do. 100%. When I look in the mirror, you know what I'm looking at? All the things I want to cover up. you know, I've got these dark circles or I go ahead and put my contour on because I want my chin to look sharper. Other people are looking at my eyes or my eyebrows or they might notice. smile. Yeah, my smile or my little mole mark over here.
I don't look at that as much. then I only, I probably look in the mirror two, three times a day, rear view mirror, maybe bathrooms when I'm washing my hands. But you look at me, you're looking at me for 45 minutes. I'm looking at you. I'm not seeing myself. Well, and so when we apply that to leadership, the obvious inference there is other people know what we're like more than we do. And so it's our responsibility as leaders to turn the mirror.
look at ourselves and look at our leadership. And that usually starts with asking a question that we're both familiar with and have heard so many times. What's it like on the other side of me? So what is it like for someone to experience me? And I would say the mirror is the most personal and the most painful of the letters in the mile framework, but it's also the most freeing. It is. Every time I work with individuals and teams, there is like this, ⁓
This aha is what we call it, but it really is this, I feel seen. I feel now I know why I do that. I understand why that triggers me and I'm not crazy for it at all. I actually am okay that it triggers me. I've just got to know how to act in it. So I like to picture myself. You and I go eat Mexican food a lot. And there's this one place we used to go to.
and I picture myself in that booth. And when I'm like, I wonder what that's like for, you know, my friend to hear this for me or my mom to hear this from me. What does that really feel like on the other side of me? But I have to visualize myself looking at myself. Yeah, that's good. Well, and if you don't have people in your life who are willing to say, hey, this is how that felt.
this is how I received what you said. Because I think a lot of times we're tempted to let ourselves off the hook because we know what we meant. And if someone's telling us how we were received, we want to go, but that's not what I meant. Or, I take that back. Or I didn't mean it that way. Well, we can get real right here. I think it was last October, you and I went to conquer my fear of Orlando. That'll be a story for a different time.
Not the city, Disney World. World. something had occurred and I actually was sitting in the car with you. was like, you know what? When you did this or this happened or this was an invitation I missed out on, I said, it hurt and I want to know, should it have? And you were able to go, no, actually here's all the framework of how that came about and why I didn't think this was a great...
for you to do this and it instead of assuming that I knew right I'm asking you to tell me what you intended and in a previous version of ourselves that would not have gone that way no I would have kept it in yeah I would have gotten a little bit moody and I would have been like what is wrong with her uh-huh
And I would have been sitting over there saying, hasn't she asked me what's wrong with me? And you're like, I'll, I'll find out what's wrong as soon as she's willing to talk. I'm like, no, ask me to talk. So there's that in itself is a mirror for me to know I can't sit long without processing conflict. I have to understand on the other side of me, you and several of my other friends need to understand the conflict, wrap their minds around what they're going to communicate. But then there's give and take. I have to say,
She doesn't need to talk about it right now. Or my boss doesn't need to talk about it right now. But it can't take seven days. Totally. It needs to be 48 hours. But being able to know that about myself, I could look at a boss or a leader or a team member and say, when there's conflict, I need it resolved pretty quickly or it stays inside my head. But I don't want to make you talk before you're ready. So can we make an agreement there's been conflict? Can we discuss this on Thursday at 3 o'clock?
Well, and it's also a really, really important principle to keep in mind. This is where nuance comes into this conversation that my intent was not the issue. My impact was the issue. Yes. But as somebody who cares a lot that people understand my intent, had you not approached it that way,
I might not have been able to hear that I had hurt you because I would have been so busy assuming you were saying I was a terrible person. Right. And that I meant to. Yes. And so that turning the mirror and understanding our tendencies gave us an opportunity to, before it spiraled out of control, just go, okay, okay, hold on, let's have a conversation about this. ⁓ One of the things that, you we talked about the five voices when we talked about the flowers in the greenhouse.
And one of the great things about five voices is it shows us our strengths. It also shows us where we sabotage. And it shows us how we can relate well with the other voices. I know we are all five, but we have some primaries and secondaries and then there's tertiaries. And so knowing those things and understanding our tendencies and our triggers,
is one of the most important aspects of being able to accurately look in the mirror. So talk a little bit about tendencies and triggers, but then talk about what's a practical way that people can begin to identify their tendencies. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, so we use tools ⁓ in my coaching that our visuals, the neuro linguistics of our brain can, you when we see the shape of a stop sign, whether or not it's red or it has the word stop, we're going to naturally feel like we need to stop.
So we use those, there's a tool that we use called Know Yourself to Lead Yourself. So the know yourself portion of that is the mirror. So when we think about our tendencies, they don't define us. We're not going to get rid of them. Say that again. So tendencies, I tend to do this. I tend to act this way. I tend to have road rage.
⁓ Yes, I do. can give you, I have a tendency log. can talk about, I've got 32 on it. I tend, there's good ones. I tend to never meet a stranger. ⁓ With our tendencies, they don't define us, but they're not going away. It's the, cause our tendencies lead to an action. And out of our action, like you said, is a consequence. And out of a consequence,
is our reality. That's it. But the only place we can shift any of our reality is between the tendency and action, we have to create a new pattern. Okay. let's just like, let's be super elementary. All right, let's do it. So if my tendency when I drive past a Chick-fil-A is to stop and get an ice dream cone. Yes. And
Every time I drive by a Chick-fil-A, I stop and get an ice cream cone and then I get home and my stomach hurts because I'm lactose intolerant. Yes. And then I feel like garbage for the next two days. And I just keep repeating that pattern over and over and over again. So talk through that with my tendency to see a Chick-fil-A and pull in and get an ice cream cone, even though that's a negative tendency because of the consequence on the other.
Yep. So let's think about those four words I said, your tendency, Chick-fil-A, ice stream cone, action, you pull in, consequence, gut wrenching pain, reality, you had pain and you probably gained some weight. So the pattern tendency to action. What do you have to do at that split moment? You've got to make a choice. Okay. I know I'm going to want to ice stream.
and I'm going to start a new exercise that I will give myself one a week. know when I pass them and where I pass them. So for a week, I might take a different way to work. So I'm now changing my action. Yes. Okay. So the pattern is give myself, when can I have it? And change your direction or don't like.
Don't go by the Chick-fil-A. If you still have that pull to go, remove that obstacle. Then your action is you're going a different way to work. You haven't eaten it. Your consequence, you feel healthy for six days. Your reality is you will start creating a new habit. Now here's where it doesn't define you, but you still have it. You still want the ice cream. Yeah, it's not that I suddenly dislike them.
It doesn't define you. doesn't say, you have a self-control issue. No, I still want the ice cream. I'm choosing a different pattern. Okay. Now let's put it in the context of a meeting that happens weekly and there's a coworker in the meeting who interrupts me, cuts me off and that drives me insane. And I start to get passive aggressive with her. Yes. Okay. That's a good one.
Because as a nurturer, that is a natural tendency for a nurturer. And that's a good thing is that we can look at each of these voices and we have been able to evaluate and determine there's some like eight, 10 consistent tendencies that follow a natural voice, your first voice. So with yours, the passive aggression comes out. So your tendency is going to get frustrated.
when you get cut off. Your action might be, well, if I could finish this. Yeah, if you would let me finish my sentence. If you'll let me finish my sentence, consequence, I'm on the other side, I'm like, wow, look at you, spouty-wouty. And then your reality is all you really wanna do is have harmony in the room and collaborate, but now you've made the room feel like they need to walk on shells with you. So your new pattern. Let me ask you, like as a coach, I would say,
What is one thing that you could do to change that thought? Because at the end of the day, that tendency, she cut me off. So it's in your mind, it's a thought. So how do you get in front of that action? So I have a kind of mantra that I have put in my life over the last, I would say, five or six years called the power of the pause.
And I take it from you sometimes. Yes. And so in that I would know I'm going to this weekly meeting, know that there's a high likelihood because she is not self-aware that she is going to interrupt me. rather than when I feel that thing fire off in me, rather than, you know, not minding my face or letting it leak out or sighing or looking at another coworker and rolling my eyes or any of those.
knee-jerk reactions. I pause, take a deep breath and just go there is power in the pause. And the reason I say that there's power in the pause is because historically if I pause I almost never regret what I say or do after the pause.
Even if it's that I need to engage in something difficult or say a hard thing, isn't, I never engage in conflict. But if I will pause even 30 seconds, I can think clearly and wisely about how I engage after that moment. I'm telling you what Mace, if I let my face and my mouth lead when that thing fires off in me, I always regret it. And so for me, the tendency,
will always be when I get interrupted or when I get condescended to, it will always fire off in me. If I can pause, I will not add insult to injury in that situation by misbehaving myself. Well, and you think about the power in your pause, 30 seconds is a long time. But even if we were to count 10 seconds right now, let's just count five.
Five seconds is enough because what you're doing is you're leading yourself, but you're also possibly leading the other person. Because if you pause, they may start recognizing, wait, why did she just stop talking? Now they might not be self-aware and we can't count on that, but it may be there. The other thought would be, let's take a step back if someone's like, well, that's all great, Shannon, but I don't have that self-control.
So I tell, when I'm coaching people, I say, go as far back to the tiny little step you can take. And it could be as simple as you and I being in that meeting or I'm a coworker of yours to say, Macy, when someone interrupts me, I wanna go to passive aggression. So over the next week, will you do me a favor? Anytime we're in a meeting and someone interrupts me,
Will you just put your hand on my knee or will you just say, ⁓ Shannon, will you finish what you were saying and then, know, Mary, we'll hear next from you. Like invite someone in to help those that don't have the ability to have the power and the pause. Seven days, market, say what you, respond to what you're going to do. I'm going to ask someone to help me for seven days.
and point out how many times did I become passive aggressive. Because you might not even know you are. And that step lets you see and you're aware of when and how it's happening. Then your next week, okay, to my friend Macy, now this time I want you, you've just counted how many times I did it. I want you to put your hand on my knee each time.
So that we're drawing it back into our minds so that we have the self-control for the pause. It's the, know, scientists and neurologists talk all the time about the brain's ability to burn a new neuro pathway. And that's really what this is at the end of the day. It's this was the pattern and now I'm creating a new pattern which will alter my reality on the other side of it. I have a simple one that I'll share a tendency
to everyone, and I said it earlier, I do have an Excel spreadsheet, it's a tendency log. Some of my mentors and leaders have encouraged me to do that, and there's a good 30-something on there, and I walk through that, what do I do, what's the tendency, what's my action, consequences, reality, and then I put, what is, how can I trade up, what is that pattern, and I'm listing it so that I can look over that.
So this is just a funny one. I'm a connector. I meet no stranger. It is true. I can tell you whether we're in Publix or the airport or the gas station, you were walking out of a store the other day. I was already in the car and I just heard you talking and I was like, no, what happened? You were just chit chatting with the store owner. Yes. It was my local gas station. Yeah. And I say this and this, I hope this doesn't trickle trigger people, but
this is a fun thing for me is that people are my cocaine. It's your high. It's my high. And it is a healthy high for me. And that probably is, there's a good percentage of people out there going, my word, that is not my thing. Yeah, same right here. I'm the people. Yes. I'm like, put me on an elevator, 13 floors and give me a stranger. And I am going to just have the best day ever. Cause inside of me as a natural connector,
I'm a person of network and relational equity. And so it's not that I need to know that person. It's almost like a puzzle and fun for me to figure out how can I connect and have that person be seen and known. it's why when I'm at a restaurant, I immediately ask my server, hey, tell me your first name so that I can call their name throughout. Because listen, I live alone and I...
No one cooks for me, so when someone serves me, I want to be able to do that. So one of my practices, I fly a lot. I travel to my clients. ⁓ Therefore, not everyone's going to be excited to sit next to me on an airplane. And I had to learn my tendency was to sit down go, hey, how you doing? How's your day going? And as I've traveled and learned more about myself, I've realized
what that might feel like on the other side of me. I look at how many people have headphones on and sometimes I even wonder if there's anything even in the ears. I think they're just saying. It's a signal. It's a signal, it's a stop sign. So now what I do as my tendency, I'm naturally gonna wanna meet the people next to me. I have a rule that the minute I step over the threshold of that airplane from the jetway, do not speak until spoken to.
And that allows me to still have the opportunity and whether you believe the same thing I do or don't, like God is going to open the door. He doesn't need my help to figure out am I supposed to connect with this person. And so it's do not speak until spoken to. And if someone sits down and is like head down, doesn't speak, okay, if they, hey, how are you doing? Hey, great. How are you? And they don't say anything else. That's the power of the pause. Like, Hey, pause, Macy, wait.
It helps me and I get on the airplane and start working and sometimes I do get on and I want my own headphones on. And the other day I did that and the man sitting next to me, he didn't speak until right at the very end and he wanted to look out the window and turns out his name was Fela. He was a 91 year old man that had traveled to his brother's birthday party that was 90. He was a 20 year veteran and currently he is a travel agent.
And we took a picture together and it was the last two minutes of the fight, but I know fella and I often say that filled you up before you got off that bill. Me up. And I pray for him. You know, I get to walk off going, whatever you're to do with him today, just change his life forever. So good. So as we're thinking about the mirror and as we wrap up for today, I think it's important to say the first step in becoming a great leader is becoming a great leader of yourself. Yes.
There is no such thing as, let me just read these three books and then go in and pour all that onto my team and call everybody to a higher standard. If we're not modeling great self leadership, then it's very difficult at that point to become a leader worth following. And so the mirror for ourselves, recognizing our tendencies, and remember there are good ones, there are also ones that have ⁓ the opportunity to dilute our influence.
And so recognizing those tendencies can seem a little daunting if you're somebody who really doesn't enjoy weakness or doesn't like things like that to be highlighted. So demystify it for us a little. You've kind of turned it into a game of sorts. So give people a really practical way they can be looking this week for their tendencies and making that log. good.
I get that question a lot because we don't naturally, I think as humans and particular voice orders ⁓ can lead with pride and it's hard for any of us to want to say there's something wrong. And so I started ⁓ this thing at 5.30. I put an alarm on my phone. ⁓ It goes off and it says, when set off hope.
I now don't even look at my phone. So when, as in win or lose, correct, set off hope and then hope. And I leave it on, even if I'm in a restaurant, even if I'm on the airplane, it, really, unless I am in a place where an alarm would, it's not loud. And as soon as it goes off, I can stop it on my watch. ⁓ but I celebrate in my mind, I don't sit down and journal. I don't write it down and follow up.
It's a quick reflection, what was your win today? And I just think, my, I had a breakthrough with Sarah. What set you off? Where today? Did that thing fire you? Just firing you. It could be as simple as I woke up to a text message and it just got all over me. Or it could be a conflict I had with someone I was coaching or a friend.
Or get your feelings hurt or get frustrated in traffic or the Amazon delivery was soaking wet when you got it. So anything like that. Anything that you can go today, what was the moment that I felt like I got set off? Sometimes I don't have that moment and that's okay. I skip right past it. And then the hope is really, what am I hoping for tomorrow? In one word. And I try to go to bed thinking and praying that word.
Because I'm probably most likely going to wake up thinking and hoping for that word and then I can see promise happen the next day. So the set off becomes your tendency. Oftentimes it might be the same because we talked about road rage and my pattern for road rage, it happens a lot when I'm on my way home from the airport and I have a good hour to drive.
I do love driving in Atlanta traffic. I know that's gonna set some people off. man, I drive an F-150 and I drive an hour out and I land on horse farms and I drive down a dirt road and across a wooden bridge and come into my little barn that we're sitting in. But when I get out of the airport, I'm so excited to get home that when someone is in the left lane. I mean, what are they doing there? How long have you been driving? If you're in the left lane,
and anyone is behind you, just move over. I don't understand it. I want to have a whole conference about this. And I know people are going to say, but there's a speed limit. Well, great. Adhere to the speed limit in the right lane and let everybody else get pulled over. Just move over. So obviously you can tell it sets me off. So now my rule is you may not drive in the left lane when you exit the airport, at least until I get north of the city. It forces me
to go through the worst part where I would get road rage and get to when I'm getting on 400 heading north, I know I'm a straight shot and then I'm 20 minutes out to the farm. So it's just a small thing and it's not a leadership lesson, but where does that rage come from? What is that? Why? Because I have to be in front. Because I have got to, I'm a future thinker so.
what's next and what's the next car and what's the next car. And that probably can be seen in leadership moments that someone who is blocking growth or someone who's just constantly pulling the room down, I could quite possibly get people rage. And I need to look at that differently. Looking in the mirror has been...
certainly the most transformational part of this journey for both of us. I know I can speak for both of us saying that. So we encourage you after this podcast until next week, so seven days, take a look in the mirror. Maybe set your 530 alarm or whatever time of day it works for you and do your when, do what set you off that day and then do what you're hoping for for tomorrow.
⁓ When you recognize a tendency, jot it in a note in your phone. Start making a list. It isn't a shame list. It is valuable information and currency for you as you lead yourself in the same way that you're hopefully gonna get to know those you lead. The first person you're leading is you. So use that as a way to lead like you mean it. Yeah, yeah. One more thing.
When you're a leader and you turn the mirror and you start transforming, people that you lead notice and they think, what's up? And it's encouraging and it might feel vulnerable, but that's when you go from a transactional leadership to an impacting leadership. Significance can be left. So really look at yourself, figure out what your tendency is.
and lead like you mean it. So good. Next week we will talk about the I and the mile framework. And so we look so forward to having you back then. Have a great week. Thanks.