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Each week, Revenue Operations expert Rosalyn Santa Elena shines the spotlight on founders, CEO's and Revenue Leaders from hyper-growth companies and dives deep into the strategies they implement to drive growth and share their learnings through the process.
Rosalyn brings you the most inspirational stories from revenue generators, innovators and disruptors, as well as Revenue Leaders in sales, marketing, and, of course, operations.
Let's unpack everything that optimizes and powers the revenue engine with this brand-new podcast from Growth Forum https://www.growthforum.io
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Welcome
to the Revenue Engine Podcast.
I'm your host, Rosalyn Santa Elena,
and I am thrilled to bring you the
most inspirational stories from
revenue generators, innovators and
disruptors, revenue leaders in sales, in
marketing, and of course in operations.
Together we will unpack everything that
optimizes and powers the revenue engine.
Growth Forum production.
Are you ready?
Let's get to it.
Lead generation more leads.
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This helps you sell smarter, grow
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For more information,
visit insightly.com/get.
Insightly.
In this episode of the Revenue Engine
Podcast, Michael Maximov, the co-founder
and managing partner at Belkins shares
his experience and insights that helped
make Belkins an award-winning full
scale agency that helps businesses in
over 50 industries across the globe.
So please take a listen
and learn what you can do.
To be more effective at
prospecting, at lead generation
and ultimately in revenue outcomes.
So super excited to be here today
with Michael Maximov, the co-founder
and managing partner at Belkins.
So Belkins is ranked as number one lead
generation agency in 2022, according to
all major review websites like Clutch
and G2 and Up City, you know, in five
years with no external investments.
This is a startup that grew into an
award-winning full scale agency that
drives results for businesses in 50
plus industries across the globe.
Their team empowers businesses
of all scales to grow.
Through innovative marketing
and sales solutions.
So welcome Michael, and thank
you so much for joining me.
I am so excited to learn more
about you and learn from you.
Michael Maximoff: Rosalyn
thanks for having me here.
I'm happy, happy with you having
to have this conversation.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Awesome, awesome.
So, so I always like to start with talking
a little bit about your career journey.
I mean, you've had, you know, a
really interesting career journey
from B2B sales and marketing to
building companies and to really.
Bootstrapping startups.
So maybe can you share
more about your backstory?
You know, talk about your career
journey, you know, prior to Belkins?
Michael Maximoff: Um, that's, um, you
know, that's a good question to start
off the conversation because, um, I have
a, a, a, a very strange answer to it.
I was like, and I think that
many people can relate to it.
So we started the business because
me and my partner, we, we felt
that any good company would hire,
no, no good company would hire us.
Right.
So we felt like we don't have
enough experience, we don't have
enough knowledge, we don't have,
you know, anything that, uh,
people would want to hire us for.
We said, Hey, we are, we are
average, we are mediocre, whatever.
And we felt that way.
But because we, we felt like, hey,
you know, we've been around just
for a few, I've been in sales only
for, you know, three years back
then I changed two companies I was
selling, but I wasn't the top seller.
Um, but.
I think that something that differentiated
me from all, uh, you know, apart from
all other sales reps, uh, was that.
I was always taking ownership for
everything that was happening in
the company, you know, so I was the
first guy who opened the office.
I was the, the last guy
who left the office.
I was always, you know, um, I
was always talking to product.
I was, well, always talking to design.
So I was, you know, I,
I felt like I was a.
A, you know, a owner of the
organization, but I wasn't,
I was just a hired sales rep.
Right.
But I, I, I felt like this kind of
attitude and approach is, is something
that I should cater in my own company
to every person in the organization feel
like this is their own company, right?
So they, they feel that this
is the part of their story.
This is the long term success
that they're building.
And they're not just
hired for a salary here.
And this is one of the first things that.
We start implementing.
Once we started the agency, and,
and again, we started it because,
you know, and this is for, you
know, the people that started
their own service companies, right?
In service.
You need to know what you're doing and
have a client for whom you can do it.
That's it, right?
You don't need a startup capital,
you don't need to go raise money.
Whatever.
You just need, you know, you just.
Need to be able.
Right.
So we, I knew that I can, I can
do as they are, I can do sales
development, I can book appointments.
I know how to do that.
I know how to close.
And my partner, Vlad, who started
this company with me, he was
working with me on, uh, with, as a.
Head of database research department.
So these are the guys that
are manually generating leads.
So right now, you know, there are
all, all of those fancy tools like
ZoomInfo and Apollo and Prospect io.
But, uh, when we started, and obviously,
you know, ZoomInfo had been around
back then, but, um, But it was so
expensive, you know, there's only a
few companies can acquire ZoomInfo.
So, uh, right.
So we had, okay, we've built our own
team of lead researchers whose job were
the scrape, scraping data from all of
this, you know, places from open data
sources and putting together a nice list.
And so my, my part of
like, knew how to do that.
So we were like, Hey, what if we're
gonna combine these experiences, right?
And we have you generating
leads on client's behalf.
I go after those leads and book some
calls and we can, you know, create a,
a, a small agency, like a boutique shop
where we can work with some clients.
But when we start, you know, When
we start working with the first
few clients, we're like, Hey, well
we are pretty good at this, so why
don't we get some of our friends.
Uh, my partner Vlad, get his wife,
wife involved in the process.
Uh, I get my best friend Alex, who
is now our current, our our currently
managing partner, um, at our organization.
So we start just getting friends and
just working and chilling and, and
having the life lifestyle, right?
Uh, but we were so genuine with
each other and so open and honest
about like who and how we do that.
So that people just, you know,
tagged along and they help us
to build the, the, the company.
But obviously, so we were kind of a
startups or like, you know, people
that were like, you know, living
the life and building the startup.
But at the same time, we had the.
The business mentality.
So we were focused on the numbers.
We had our metrics, we had our
KPIs, we had our p and l down.
So the first thing that we've done where
we've, we've uh, we've downloaded a, a
template for a p and l somewhere, and
we've start categorizing each and every
dollar that is spent on our company.
And because of that, we,
we, we, we knew our numbers.
We knew what, where we need to spend and
what we need to do to make this happen.
And then we've set up our O OKRs, like
simple, Hey, you know, we need to.
Grow 10% every month, like in by each.
And, and then, you know, first
year we made our first, uh, I think
the first year we made our first
like, Something like $300,000.
So we had just one or a few clients.
Then the next year we've,
uh, we hit, uh, you know, 850
million, uh, sorry, $850,000.
Then we went to 3 million, you
know, then six, then 10, then 20.
And you just kind of keep on, you
know, rocking every, every year.
And as a result of, uh, the great
people that work with us and.
As a result of this, you know, genuine
approach that we've been pursuing
from, you know, from the day one.
So that's, that's the story.
That's
awesome.
That's awesome.
I love that.
And just, it's such a, just
an organic way to grow, right?
You kind of say, Hey, there's something
we can help, you know, help help
clients with, or help customers with.
Kind of start helping and then you just.
Build.
I love the fact like, you're, like your
co-founder found, you know, brought his
wife on, you brought a friend on, and just
kind of started to build out a business.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
That's a great way to
build a great business.
You know, we, we appreciate
every, you know, every talented
people that contribute, right?
So we don't believe that there
should be like a, you know, you don't
work with your family or you don't
work with your friends, or don't
hire your best body, or whatever.
Uh, because at the end it's about healthy
relationship and honest relationship.
So if you can be friends with someone,
but then work with them and be general
about the work, then that's fine.
And very often when you give a, a
transparent feedback, when you are
honest, when you're committed, when
you take ownership, uh, Uh, you know,
things are just start happening between,
you know, colleagues or between people
in the team and, and, and that's it.
And, and you just grew from there, right?
And, um, and because of that, I was
so, um, I was so lucky to get, uh, Are
all of great people working with me.
So because like we nurtured relationship
and people around us, we were
focusing on retaining great people.
So the worst thing ever is when someone
that you worked with for years is
leaving the company because they don't
see themself with you growing, or they
don't see, you know, the, you know,
their align of their interest with yours.
And we don't want that.
That's why we are like always.
We we're kind of building a platform,
building the team, and always
creating opportunities for the team
to grow within and outside them, but
always keeping those opportunities
connected between each other.
That's why we've kind of
started as agency and then.
Uh, now because you see me on the
screen, you have, you see Folly here.
It's one of the products
Uhhuh we are building.
So we've uh, also built several SaaS
products and we kind of, and the reason
why we're doing that because we wanna make
you sure that if you are growing outside
the agency and you feel like, well, I want
to do something more, something different,
a different industry, a different I c
P, you know, different product, not a
service, then we wanted to make sure
that we have that offer available to
you, that you can continue building those
things with us together, that you're not.
You know, living the team and taking
all of that experience that you've
had, all of those knowledge, all of
that alignment somewhere else and
build someone else future instead
of building together future with us.
Right.
Yeah,
Rosalyn Santa Elena: yeah.
I love that.
I love that.
You know, I was gonna ask a little bit
about, you know, when you first started
the company, you know, six years ago, and
then kind of what, you know, you shared
a lot about, you know, what that vision
was, but you know, how has it changed?
If at all over the last six years.
Michael Maximoff: Um, that's a,
that's a great question, Rosalyn.
So obviously there was a change
and there's always a change.
Right.
But I feel like, and this is something
that I've, I've learned from, um, from,
you know, from some of the founders that
I've been personally like looking after
and reading their books, um, There's,
um, there's one Canadian startup,
um, or Canadian consultant company.
Um, um, I don't remember the name of
the founder, but what I know is that
when I listened to one of their courses,
he, he told me great thing he, he, he,
he taught me that every organization
should have several core values.
Uh, In, in their dna, uh, throughout
their lifetime, throughout all
the time that, you know, they're
growing and building the business.
And there, there shouldn't
be like 5, 10, 15, 20.
There should be only 3, 4, 5,
maybe maximum top core values that
are, that you can apply for every
person in their organization.
And those core values should be
explained in a great, great detailed
manner, how they can be applied.
So what we did, we've, we've, we
built those first three values.
And we, uh, uh, you know, and we
followed, and it, it hurt those
all three values, uh, throughout
our, you know, last six years.
And this is something that
cannot be changed, right?
This is the values, this is
the core, this is who we are.
Uh, but everything else is changing.
Obviously, you know, there are new
people on board, there is new, you
know, KPIs, metrics, challenges,
opportunities, products, clients,
locations, industries, right?
But all of those core values.
That combine all of us together,
why we are doing this together.
They are the same throughout
the the six years.
Yeah.
I love
Rosalyn Santa Elena: that.
I love that.
Um, so let's talk a little bit about
the companies, cuz I mean, you have
an opportunity to work with so many
different B2B companies, you know,
really helping them, you know, book more
appointments, generate more quality leads.
Yeah.
Like what are some of the things that
maybe you see companies, you know, doing
right when it comes to lead generation
or booking appointments and what are
some of those things that they do wrong?
Yeah.
Michael Maximoff: So, um,
Companies that are doing successful
appointment setting are successful
in everything that they're doing.
So they're not like struggling
in a way, like they have a
good customer success team.
They have a great product, uh,
they have a good retention team,
uh, they have a good sales team.
Usually appointment setting comes when.
When growth is right, so like you
wanted to do appointment setting for
the growth and for you to grow, you
obviously need to make sure that all other
errors in your business are successful.
So if you heavily rely on, and this is to
answer the second part of your questions,
what, uh, where companies are wrong is
when you wanted to apply one channel
or one approach, like, Hey, you know,
I want to do appointment setting, but.
My client team sucks or something like
that, then they goes hand by hand, right?
Because we are living in the world of
a data driven buying, uh, decisions.
So it means that before anyone, uh,
answer your emails, uh, answer your
email, they will go to, uh, And
check you up on Clutch, on Keera,
on, you know, on on other services.
Right.
They will go to see your website.
Mm-hmm.
They will see your client case
studies, they will see your blog.
So they will just do the research
to see, you know, whether you're
gonna be, uh, worth of them
investing in their time in you.
Right.
Uh, that's why, uh, I think that,
uh, we've, we've seen great success
with organization that are really.
Careful about their business and
careful about their, their growth.
And they're really
thoughtful and well-rounded.
And this is the key, right?
So really taking care of all of
your bases, not just the one.
Right.
Um, we've seen that, um, company, uh,
successful with appointment setting
when they have a consistent brand
and they consistently, um, Invest
in marketing because the, you know,
appointment setting is about conversion.
So, um, I'll, I'll tell you the
truth, Rosalin, uh, we've run almost,
we've run campaigns for almost 2000
clients over the last six years.
2000 companies, uh, in
about 50 industries.
Um, all sizes, startups, mid-size
enterprise, you know, we've targeted, you
know, hundred millions of leads, uh, and.
About 90, 98% of these campaigns
were successful, but they were not
successful from the first day, but
they were eventually successful.
And the reason is that email channel and,
and appointment setting, they work for
every business, for every organization.
If you're in b2b, this is gonna work.
The question is how good it works in
terms of the conversions, what kind
of conversion you can inspect, and
what kind of budget you have, right?
So if I am expecting to generate
appointments at a hundred
dollars, But I've never done that.
This channel before then,
can, can I actually do that?
Can, is this achievable KPI for the team?
Maybe not, but maybe you can
start at 300 and then month after
month you can go down, right?
So I think that, um, be realistic
about the expectations, be recently
realistic about the KPIs that, um, you
are setting up for your team and for
our team, for example, is the way to go.
And we've, when you are managing those
expectations correctly, and when you are.
Working on increasing your conversion,
uh, month of the month, uh, you'll see
this channel to be very successful.
And then once the appointments
are done, the next challenge is
like, well, how do I close them?
Because, you know, very often when
companies rely on inbound channel and
generating interest from, you know,
word of mouth, they are incapable of,
of actually closing deals with outbound
because the, the pitch is different.
Uh, the sales cycle is longer.
There is a lot of nurturing
there, et cetera, et cetera.
So you also need to know
how to close though.
So again, um, just to kind of sum
up, uh, on, on that first part of the
question, um, Well-rounded marketing,
uh, consistency in terms of how you
invest in marketing, making sure that,
uh, you have, uh, the, the, the, the
correct expectations in front of you.
Manage those expectations and
then, um, have the right team,
um, that will win for you.
This channel, eventually you will
an, you know, the channel will
be successful because this is a,
a very strong marketing channel.
It's just a matter of how long
and what kind of resources you
need to, to make it successful.
And then opposite to this.
What people are doing wrong is they're
not consistent with their marketing.
They're just investing into one
channel, not other channels.
They're not consistent with their brands.
Um, they, uh, have the team
for a short period of time.
Then they change the team.
They put budget, they, they take budget
off the channel and they put back and
force, and you know yourself, right?
Marketing.
Uh, marketing doesn't like the, the,
the, the variation of the change.
They really will like the consistency
because then the team with the
consistent budget can actually, uh,
make the right smart decisions based
on the data that they generated
and then, uh, implement mm-hmm.
And increase the conversion.
And then eventually, uh, Build a
successful channel, you just need
to have the right team for that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love
Rosalyn Santa Elena: that.
That's great.
I that there's actually a lot of great
advice in there in terms of kind of,
you know, what, what folks should be
thinking about, what they should be doing.
You know, you touched on this a
little bit because I think when with
buyers, right, before they actually
have that conversation with you,
or before they actually even take
the call, I mean, buyers are just.
Much more informed, right?
We have so many, so much data at
our, um, you know, available to us.
And with that, we're
more demanding, right?
And so I think reaching, you know,
the right prospects and getting
them to have a conversation with you
right, is increasingly challenging.
So what are you maybe
seeing in the market?
You know, what are you seeing as
effective techniques for companies to
really, you know, kind of cut through
that noise and get to those right
Michael Maximoff: conversations?
Yeah, great question.
So, I.
I believe in, in the remote work, and
I believe in a, in a global approach.
So I believe that, uh, you
should sell internationally.
You should hire internationally and,
and really leverage, uh, everything
that market gives you in terms of, uh,
the, you know, uh, Um, the, the, the
people that you can hire, you know,
if you're hiring in Eastern Europe
or in Asia or in the United States.
Uh, I also feel like you need to
leverage any technology that you can
count your hands on as, as well as just
try to cater your services and products
to industry or the type of companies
that you know, can, can, uh, can, can
buy services for, uh, for hard cost.
However, at the same time, I think that,
um, and I, I speak to, to this already,
um, in my previous conversations, it's
about the, the cycle of marketing.
So we are in a, we are in, in a kind of
a cycle in, in terms of we've been 20
years ago where we are right now, when,
where we gonna be in the next 20 years.
And right now we are at the place
where, There's too much automation.
There's too much tools, and there's
too much things that automate and less
human interaction, less human work.
That's why when, uh, when, uh, revenue
leaders are, are building, uh, sales
and marketing teams, they're thinking
about, well, how I can decrease
the, the headcount and how I can.
Help and automate as, as much work
as they can for all of my people.
Right.
And one of the things they're doing in
terms of actually targeting the right
prospect, they're thinking about buying
a ZoomInfo because they feel like, well,
ZoomInfo has the up-to-date, uh, data.
They, uh, they have so many
customers, they have a great
business model, whatever.
But then when you ask yourself
a question, it's like, where
does ZoomInfo get the data from?
Like, do they, how accurate the
data is, how long they're updating.
Can you imagine updating a hundred
million, uh, contact records every
month or even every three months?
No.
And then how many people
have access to the same data?
Right?
So it's like, well, so many.
So instead of doing that, why don't
someone hire or bring on board someone,
you know, uh, for, for, again, maybe
you can, if you have budget, you can
bring someone in the United States.
Maybe you can outsource for someone,
but then someone that can manually.
Access data, verify data in real time.
Go check out Linkin.
Go check out the website of
the customer, do some digging.
Create 10, 15, 20 fifth, a
hundred names of the prospects.
That person would say, these
are the up-to-date prospects.
They're good, they're targeted.
Collect some personalized data about,
you know, the conferences that those
people were, uh, were keying or about
some things that they wrote about
whatever, but create some personalization
point and then hand this data over
to SDRs and say, Hey, these are the.
Handpicked hundred names.
Let's go and then as yours go and, and,
and, and, and, and, and market those.
So you can imagine that a conversion and
results from this a hundred name list
is way higher than by just accessing
the same list from the generic database.
So I think that the answer to your
question is a personalization b uh,
actual human work and interaction, even
though it's might be more expensive,
but right now you can make it work.
Uh, you can find a
freelancer, you can outsource.
You can find a remote
worker, you can manage that.
But at the end of the day, when several
people combined together, um, are
dedicated to a certain task, um, and, and
they can, with automation, you can help
with some volume, but not only relying
automation, uh, you will see success.
And this is something that works
really well for a lot of our clients.
Um, so this is one, you know, huge point.
Uh, another argument here is,
um, Uh, they, they be testing.
I mean, oh my God.
Um, very often when you, when you feel
like, you know, when you analyze your
current client list and say, okay,
you know, my decision makers are, you
know, head of engineering, uh, you
know, because like they are budget
holders and you start sending emails,
making calls, connecting with people
and selling to head of engineers,
you can very easily realize that.
Maybe head of engineers are not the
best people to sell this product to
maybe, uh, head of product, maybe
engineering team leaders are the best.
Maybe you need to go to cto, right?
So the idea is that whenever you start
in any appointment setting pain, you
always need to AB test and you AB test.
Everything you ab task the titles, you
ab b task, the industries, you ab b task,
the sizes of organization, and you also
ab test the, the approach that you're
taking, the messaging, more formal, more
informal, the subject line, the email
bodies, the personalization, um, the,
the more, uh, the more data you have.
Uh, within the shorter period of
time, uh, the, the more theorists you
test it, and then the, the, the more
theorists and hypothesis you're tested
in a way, then you can pretty much
make some smart datadriven decisions.
Uh, and then the, the, the, you
know, the, my recommendation
is always log all the data.
So when you do AB testing, make sure
that you can log all the data and
you see the, the stats later on.
Right, because when you do AB testing in
1, 2, 3, 4 years, then you don't have any
historical records about the AB testing.
So that's, that's not gonna work.
So I think that, you know,
personalization, um, um, you know,
hand curated work, Um, AB testing.
These are the three, uh, pillars
of, of very, very successful
campaigns, uh, to be honest with you.
And then I think like, just additional
one here is the consistent, uh, work
of SD R and it's the persistence
of it, of the, of that SDR work.
So I mean that, um, very often when,
um, the, you know, the Azure, so
right now we've seen that the average
successful outbound campaign have
about, um, About 15 to 20% reply rate.
So if you send an email to, uh, you
know, 500 prospects, you should generate
about between 50 to a hundred responses.
And you can imagine that the majority
of those responses are either not
interested or some in internal forward
or out of the office or contact later.
So how, if you consistently reply
all of those follow up, nurture those
conversations, then you can, uh, get more.
And meaningful conversations at the end.
But when you are only focusing on
answering to the people that, uh, said,
you sure send me more information,
then you won't be able to build a
successful sales development process.
Hmm.
Got it.
Got
Rosalyn Santa Elena: it.
That's great.
Thank you for sharing that.
I think there's lots of, lots of really
great, you know, actionable tips and
also things to really think about,
um, when you are, you know, trying
to get to those better conversations.
You know, maybe along the same lines,
do you have any predictions for maybe.
What changes we might see in the next, you
know, 12 to 24 months in the space around,
you know, cutting through the noise.
Yeah.
Michael Maximoff: Um.
So, um, obviously AI gonna play a huge
role, uh, not necessarily in the language
processing space, but more like some, um,
spend tax or into some filtering, right?
Because, um, uh, you would be surprised,
but I mean, you, you probably know that,
uh, but, um, the six years, six years
ago when we started the agency, you can
easily send a cold email and you will
pretty much get a response because most
of the emails were landing in the inboxes.
But these days, try to send a cold email
straight go to, to spam folder, right?
So the spam filters start being
more and more aggressive with the
way they're filtering, um, emails.
Um, and we're gonna see that's
happening more and more and more.
So they're gonna see different patterns.
Uh, they're gonna put more
emails into spam folder.
Uh, they're gonna see more, more
emails popping up on your inbox.
But then you just need to
be smart about it, right?
Like having, again, the right
team, uh, the right technology, the
right approach, the right mindset.
This is the, the way to go.
Uh, one of the predictions that, and
I, this is the trend that I've seen,
and this is something that we start to
following more and more and more, is.
Uh, less volume, more intent.
So we start focusing more about, you know,
what value our clients can get from the
content, even from a single post or from
a conversation or from the blog post.
Like, is this actually the
proprietary information that we have?
Is this valuable?
Is this something that we just rewrote?
Reposted found somewhere on in the, on the
internet or this is the original thought.
And we are trying to be as original
as we can because then we can
create our authentic message.
And you know, it's very difficult to be
original when you are creating volume and
also because, uh, Uh, the, the people that
create content are not necessarily the
people that actually do some work, right?
So very often, like, um,
marketing creates content.
Uh, account management or client
team works with clients and have the
information and it's very tough to get
their attention and say, Hey guys, I
know you've been on the project, but
can you write your thoughts about this?
It's tough, right?
But really having them, uh, spilling
out and, and, and sharing their thoughts
about the actual ip, the actual.
Core of what and how you do that.
The tips, um, is, is,
is is very important.
That's why I'm sharing all the data that I
have because I feel like this is important
for, for listeners to know that this is an
actual data that I collected, that I work
with, that I believe that I'm building
my businesses according to, right.
And not, not just kind of
watering it dog with something.
So that's, you know, that's, that's,
that's something that is definitely gonna
be more and more trending And then, um,
And then I think the, the other thing that
is, um, you know, important to mention
here is, um, I think that, um, I've seen.
In the last five, 10 years, um,
there is a, a, a, a certain gap
happening between, um, marketing and
sales and, um, and, and client team.
And we know there is like a chief revenue
officer and revenue leaders that are
focusing on bringing these teams together
and making some powerful decisions.
But I still see that there's a
miscommunication, a gap in terms
of connect between this team.
So I feel like.
Uh, you know, marketing teams are
usually working towards some marketing
goals and sales are closing clients
and they're not very aligned.
So I think that something that, uh, for a
lot of successful companies, there should
be more and more alignment between these
teams and making sure there is someone,
uh, That has been in sales, has been in
marketing, has been in client management,
and knows the stuff so they can make some
smart decisions about all those things.
And not just being driven by the marketing
goals or being driven by sales, uh, and,
uh, having this connection between all
those departments and, and, and, and
developing, uh, you know, leaders in,
in that, that are able to, to, to meet
KPIs in, in that, um, in that area.
I think that this is, uh, This is
the way to go in the next few years.
For sure.
Yeah.
It's, you know, particular for me, so,
Rosalyn Santa Elena: yeah.
I love that.
I love that I'm, you're
speaking my language.
I'm always talking about the alignment,
you know, just across all of the
teams because it's drives so much,
there's so much benefit, right?
Just around having people
aligned, the efficiency being,
you know, the optimization, but
also the customer experience.
Absolutely.
Right.
To be.
Yeah, to have
Michael Maximoff: that.
So, but I, I'll give you an example.
Like I, um, I was surprised that my
marketing team wasn't, so the ICP
that my marketing team was going
after was based on the sales process,
not based on the delivery process.
So they didn't.
Double check or they didn't confirm the
ICP with the, you know, uh, successful
clients that we have with the industries
that we've been successful, the companies
that we can deliver, but they were
purely based on their own conversions
and how, what is the tam, you know,
how many leads we can generate, what's
our best conversions, where we get more
interest, but it, they're just, we are
pu oh, it's, here's, we can generate
the interest, but it's not necessarily
then, then we can deliver that interest.
And when I came in and I aligned those
and I explained that this is the industry,
this is how going after, and then even in
the marketing team, like the, the business
development was going after icp, but then
the, the, the video team or the team that
was creating content for blog, they didn't
know whether the ICP that they been going
after is the same that the ps, right?
So they were not aligned even
within the marketing team.
So even bringing this to light
and, and aligning everyone in the
marketing team, starting with their
content creators, uh, video editors.
Uh, business developers, co
specialists, and like explaining this
is the industry or this is the ICP
that we are going after, and then
everyone was like, oh, well then I
can adjust the way I create content.
Mm-hmm.
Where I do that based on that I C P
and not just bluntly going after some,
uh, training topics or some things
that are happening that will give me
more views, but not a lot of intent.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: Yeah.
I love that.
I love that.
Um, you know, with, with, you know,
just the market volatility, right?
In the past few years we've seen so much
change, but I think you just touched
on is one thing that hasn't changed
and I think is even more critical
to businesses now, is that client.
Satisfaction and retention.
Right.
I feel like, you know, I I, when
you were talking about sort of
the, you know, understanding from
a marketing perspective, Ron,
what are those clients that are
successful that stay with you, right.
And continue to do business with you?
And that should feed
back into your marketing.
You know, into your marketing engine.
But I think a lot of
companies forget to do that.
And I think, you know, focusing in
on client satisfaction retention
is just so incredibly important.
Yeah.
Right.
For so many reasons.
Absolutely.
And I think Balkins, I mean,
you know, is highly rated by its
clients as demonstrated by, you
know, just many re awards and
recognitions I saw for your company,
you know, highly, highly regarded.
So, you know, what is your
philosophy around client success?
And maybe how has that
helped bekins with revenue
Michael Maximoff: acceleration?
Thank you.
I, I appreciate the kind words.
Um, I kudo to the team, you know,
I always say that this is the
team, uh, that's what they deserve.
They're doing hard work all the
day, doing the hard lifting.
So, um, so the philosophy behind
the, the approach is, Uh, you
know, delivery is the king.
Uh, so sales is, uh, is a, gr is a great
booster like gasoline, but, uh, retention
and, uh, delivery team is the king.
And I feel like every service business
should be fueled or their growth
should be fueled by the retention, by
existing customers, not the new ones.
And, um, the, the reason why we've even,
one of the reasons why we build this
philosophy was that when we started the
agency, we've been analyzing the market.
We've seen so many competitors of ours
that have been struggling, uh, because
they've been focusing on acquisition
and just, you know, they have, they were
bringing on board, you know, six figure
salespeople that were just, you know,
crushing in sales closers like superstars.
But then they, you know, you
cannot, you know, you cannot spend.
All of your budget on acquisition and
then leave nothing for delivery, right?
Because then you'll
save on delivery, right?
So that something should be saved, right?
You should be saving on something.
Right?
Then it'll be delivery.
So because they've been saving on
delivery on the long term, on the
long run, um, they, they ended up,
they, they've been growing fast.
So, you know, we have some
companies in my industry that
grow pretty f really, really fast.
But what's happened at, at the growth
stage where they, you know, they start
working with several hundred clients,
Their churn rate was incredible.
Like 25%.
40%, and you can imagine having this,
you know, hundreds of peoples on board
that you need to pay salary for when
you have 30, 40% churn rate, right?
Like you need to.
Go quickly and generate more revenue.
So you start bringing
more great salespeople.
And then it's a, it's a, it is
like a, uh, it is like a, uh, you
know, it's a never ending problem.
Like you need, people are, you know,
clients are churning, you're bringing
more clients, you bring more, more
clients, you need more people.
Then clients are churning,
et cetera, et cetera.
So our philosophy was
always, Retention first.
Clients are first.
So it means that, um, we
are betting our clients.
So our sales team, uh, they, they,
they don't, uh, close deals with
clients that we, they, they, they
didn't pass the score that we don't,
that we cannot deliver for because
of some, you know, objective reasons.
Uh, so that's why, uh, you know, our
sales team, sometimes they, they lost
some deals, not because, You know, clients
say no, but because we said no, right?
And, um, usually that's not
how it works because closers
needs to close, but not for us.
So, um, very often we,
uh, we add more resources.
Uh, we sometimes, uh, you
know, decrease our profits.
Uh, but we know that for every double
work that we do for the clients,
we're gonna get payoff later, right?
So we are really, you know, making sure
that, uh, clients are taken care of.
But also I think that
the philosophy was that.
People that are managing client
accounts should make calls.
So we don't have, uh, a structure
in our organization where for to
get a discount or to get a extra,
uh, one week fee of charge for the
work that we want to do to hit some
results or to add some extra leads.
You need to get a manager approval
and say, Hey, can we do that?
Because finance don't allow
what we do, our account managers
can make their own shots.
And if they know that this is our
mistake or this something was off.
We don't know whose fault is
at, but we know that if we do
this, then clients will be happy.
Then we go for it, right?
We go for it all the time.
And then we know that at the
end, you know, we will, um, will
be successful and clients will,
will be happy about this work.
And because of that, um,
you know, great people.
Um, and then obviously
great people, right?
Like you need to make sure that people
that are taking care of clients, they're
with the organization for a long time.
Uh, and because of that, we really
take care of, of, of our client team.
And obviously we take care of everyone
in our organization, but really client
team is the, you know, is the, the
business engine for, for our organization.
And that's why we really
care of all the people.
We train them, we, we cater them,
we take care of them, you know,
emotionally, financially, and really
make sure that everyone is, is, is
super important that they can focus
on clients and making clients happy.
So these are the three like
green pillars I would say.
I love
Rosalyn Santa Elena: that.
I love that so much.
Um, the business engine, I'll have to
remember that, you know, as I think about,
um, you know, the revenue engine in this
podcast, I'm always hoping others will
be able to really learn how to accelerate
revenue growth and retain revenue, right?
And power that revenue engine.
So maybe from your perspective, you
know, what are the top maybe two or
three things that you think all revenue
leaders should really be thinking
about today to grow and retain revenue?
Michael Maximoff: Um,
obviously work on your chart.
Right.
Make sure that you can decrease your
churn as, uh, as low churn as you can.
Really, churn is the bad way, you know?
Then, um, other thing is, um,
making sure that, uh, you can
generate revenue from your existing
customers, either through upsells or
cross-sells or from, uh, referrals,
but really capitalizing on that.
Right.
Like, um, sometimes I feel like,
and if, uh, some of my clients are
listening to this, I'm sorry about
this, but I, I feel like sometimes our
team are too much in terms of asking.
They're just asking the clients
like, Hey, can you do this for us?
Can you do this for us?
But whatever.
Right.
It's like, it's the, the business, right?
We need to make sure we, the clients
are successful and we successful.
That's why, uh, feel free to ask your
clients about, um, you know, Referral,
um, uh, show them different services,
different products, uh, you know,
retain their account, grow that account,
and to get more and more business.
I think that, uh, for healthy
business, this is very important.
The other thing is, um, audience and.
Audience is the king, and who owns
the audience, uh, can be successful
long term in, in, in, in their
kind of, in, in their growth.
So by audience, I mean where you can get
your audience, can you build community
around your brand, around the problem?
Right.
A lot of businesses currently start
building communities because, like
for example, we have a Balkans
community of sales and marketing
that has already 1500 members.
We started it last year, uh, where we are.
You know, um, uh, giving people
shared, uh, knowledge and,
and experience about sales and
marketing and roles together, right?
Um, there's so many great communities
out there that are, you know, like
just, uh, uh, you know, people are
building their YouTube channels.
People are building their Lincoln
and pages personal brand, but as, as.
As long as you are building a content
platform, or as long as you're building
a community platform or something
that you can have an audience around
your brand or around certain industry
or certain topic that you can cater,
this is not the money that you waste.
This is the long term investment.
Uh, you know, and, uh, that's
why, uh, Just work with your
audience, build your audience.
Um, I, I think this is like
absolutely most these days.
And then I think that being an omnichannel
is also important, like really, um,
taking advantage of all the marketing
channels that are out there right now.
So, for example, Like, you know, you
need to optimize your website, right?
You need to, uh, run social, you
need to run ads, you need to work
with review platforms, you need
to run campaigns, warm up the
audience, do retargeting, do content.
And sometimes it's a, well, it's
just too much, Michael, right?
But that's not actually,
that's the way you do it.
Do strong marketing,
build the brand, right?
And just again, having the
right team doing that for you.
When you can outsource, outsource work
with freelance, for example, like,
Um, uh, we have a very strong SEO team
right now and we were always thinking,
you know, building everything in-house.
Like, yeah, we need that in-house because
we feel like our people are at the best.
Right.
But appeared that we failed so many times
in building our own link building team.
We couldn't manage the
link building properly.
It just couldn't.
Right?
And, uh, for people that are
listening, usually when you do the
link building, you help to organically
promote your website, get more
traffic, et cetera, et cetera, right?
Get your keywords.
To the first page of Google.
And the problem with links is
that, uh, you know, we cannot get
links from the website that is
not relevant for your business.
But having the relevant websites
linking to to your website is, is tough.
So you usually, what do you do?
You do the outreach.
You start, Hey, can you post the link?
I can post your link,
et cetera, et cetera.
But that's approach doesn't work.
So instead of that, there are
some companies and firms and.
Even freelancers that are part of this
network of, of networks, of journalists,
people that content creators, um,
editors and those, you know, content
creators, they always need fresh data.
They always need feedback.
They always need data.
So what they do, if they, you give them
the right data, then they can link you
to your website or to you, et cetera.
So in basically the, the learning
that I've had was, well, instead of
building the in-house team with the
average approach that I don't know
how to do, I would hire a professional
that can do it on my behalf and
guarantee the results of the work
by, by providing the service that.
Impossible to build if you're not in
that business for 10 years or 15 years.
Right.
And leveraging that.
So I think that, um, I, I,
that was a mistake of mine.
So I really, for all the listeners,
like if you can outsource, if you can
freelance, if you can cut, cut corners.
Do that because there are so many
great people out there that can do the
work at the much lower cost that you
would feel you would do, or the better
quality that you would just feel.
Feel that you would build that in-house.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: I love that.
I love that.
Especially, there's just so many
freelancers right now, right?
Everybody's doing their side, you know?
Side business and such.
And so leveraging that talent and that
experience, but a, a fraction of the
cost because it's a short term, right.
As short term, uh, project
work versus longer term.
I love that.
Well, thank you so much
for joining me, Michael.
But as we wrap up, and before I let
you go, I always ask guests two things.
One, you know, what is the one
thing about you that others
would be surprised to learn?
And two, what is the one thing that you
really want everyone to know about you?
Alright,
Michael Maximoff: you
caught me off guard here.
Um, you know, I'm kind
of an open book, right?
So I think that, so the thing that, uh,
everyone would be surprised to know if you
hit me on link in or my email and you ask
me the question, I will give, I will give
you my honest answer like, They just asked
me the question about my business, like,
how much money did you make last year?
And I'll give you that.
I'm very honest.
Cause I feel like data itself is nothing
but the way you execute on that data.
So the execution is the king, right?
So if you can execute better than
I execute, then you, you, you
want the, the, the fight, right?
Like that's it.
You are the better competitor,
the better competition.
But if you, if I can put the same data,
if I can do better execution, then.
It's my fair win.
Right?
So I think that, again, for
everyone, like if you want to hit
me up with any questions or really
need to help with anything, I'll
be happy to share whatever I have.
And I'm, you know, I'm consistently
checking my social, you know, and,
and having people checking them.
So, uh, I'll be sure to get, get back to
anyone, um, A S A P and then for people
that, something that, um, Done now.
Hmm.
Um, I'm originally from Ukraine, so
you've probably got the, uh, the accent.
Uh uh, yeah.
Uh, but I am, um, I am like, You
know, traveling a lot these days.
Uh, I visited probably about 20
countries last year, so, wow.
Yeah, so remote, remote work,
uh, really works for me, so I'm
just kind of, you know, um, yeah.
And, uh, last, um, last summer I was
lucky to be in Iceland when there was
a v volcano eruption and I was able to
hide the volcano, and that was amazing.
You can imagine, uh, like, uh, having a
lunch in front of the volcano when you
just like, like, 50 in front of you.
It's, it's insane.
Yeah.
But it was so, so fun.
So, you know, enjoy the life and travel.
And work.
Rosalyn Santa Elena: I love that.
Love that.
Thank you for sharing that.
That's great.
Well, thank you so much for joining me.
I really appreciate just your time and
sharing so many great insights, lots of
great advice, I think for the listeners.
So just wanna thank you again
for your time and just super
Michael Maximoff:
grateful for you Rosalyn.
Thanks for having me and hope
you guys enjoyed the talking.
Thank you.
Thank you.