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Two deranged lawyers talking about our deranged obsessions.
Raven Sinner (00:01)
Thanks for watching!
Pisha (00:27)
Hello, welcome to Deranged De Jure. My name is Pisha, I'm with my co-host. And we are two deranged lawyers. We have deranged obsessions and we wanna share them with you. Today, we will be discussing our obsession with women who kill Nazis.
Raven (00:33)
Raven.
Yes.
Pisha (00:49)
Yeah, we learned something, I think, halfway through doing the research for this episode. And that is that we didn't actually know what a Nazi hunter was. And so, yeah, we'll talk about that later. But welcome. We are here. It's another fabulous day in Women's History Month. And I, that's right. It's a great month. I'd like it to be a little warmer, but that's just a personal thing.
Raven (00:52)
I'm going to go to bed.
Oops.
That's my favorite month of the year.
Yeah, it should be June. Yeah.
Pisha (01:20)
Yeah, June. June's nice. So I'd like to start by giving a shout out to my favorite all women bands. Number one, Wet Leg. I love Wet Leg, crazy about them. Then we've got Last Dinner Party, boygenius, The Beaches, and Bikini Kill.
Raven (01:30)
All right.
Mm-hmm.
Hell yeah.
yeah, Bikini Kill. We also have an honorable MEN-tion because they're a couple men in the band, so they don't quite qualify as all-female, but they are one of my favorite bands. As you can see, as will be the, well some of you can't see, but Cheap Perfume is a Denver band and they wrote a song called It's Okay to Punch Nazis, which is probably what the title of this is gonna
Pisha (01:47)
Yeah.
I'm sorry.
Raven (02:13)
So yeah, so there's that. Yeah, so I mean, I think it's kind of fitting this time around that we're gonna be covering World War II. Some of you will remember, but if you don't go back and listen to the dating app episode where I told you all about the dude who said that women never built anything in history. And so it doesn't extra fuck you to him. We are covering the period of history where women built everything. So.
Pisha (02:13)
Pretty much, yeah.
That's right, because all those dumb ass, yeah, suck it, because all you dumb men were just blowing up and shit, and we were building things in the factories, and we were, yeah.
Raven (02:43)
Suck on that!
Hahaha
creating wifi all kinds of shit, so.
Pisha (02:58)
That's right. So take that dating app loser. Yeah. So that's right. So many apples, but, but really, no, seriously, we've got some really bad ass women to talk about today. And yeah, so thrilled. I am happily starting this one off because I think I might hate Nazis more than the average bear. I,
Raven (03:02)
Yeah. How about that? How about them apples? Yeah. All right.
So excited.
Pisha (03:27)
hate Nazis. Yeah, I know me too. I like it about me as well. I named my dog after Sergeant Hugo Stieglitz in Inglourious Basterds. If you'll recall, he's like, say goodbye to your Nazi balls. And then he dies stabbing the guy in the back of the head and shooting his balls off. Yeah. So that's how much I hate Nazis.
Raven (03:28)
I love that about you.
Hell yeah.
Love it.
Pisha (03:51)
Um, and it, I wish it made sense because I don't have like huge Jewish ancestry. I have some, but it's pretty ancient. I don't know if it was around like in Germany at the time of the Holocaust, so I can't really.
Raven (04:05)
Yeah, I don't think you have to qualify hating Nazis. I think just anybody, any average Joe or Joette.
Pisha (04:13)
You're, that's freaking right. You're allowed to hate Nazis as much as you want. And in fact, I'm just going to read the title of my introductory slide. It is, what is a Nazi and why is it always okay to punch them? So Nazis, they are literally the culmination of all that's wrong and evil with humanity.
Raven (04:15)
Yeah.
Please do.
Pisha (04:39)
They are hateful, violent, greedy, arrogant, intolerant, short-sighted, and narrow-minded. They believe in the myth of racial, religious, moral, gender superiority. And on top of all of this, they have really terrible senses of humor.
so fuck them. I believe they have no redeemable value to society. Go ahead and try to argue otherwise, I dare you, you will sound like a fascist. Yeah. So for those who don't know, Nazi is a term that comes from National Socialist shortened in German.
Raven (04:58)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Pisha (05:22)
It's a far right totalitarian socio-political ideology and practices that are associated with Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party in 1930s, 40s Germany. It is a form of fascism characterized by extreme nationalism with disdain for liberal democracy or the parliamentary system for those Europeans out there. And it incorporates dictatorship, anti-Semitism, anti-communism, white supremacy, scientific racism, eugenics.
just to name a few of their lovely, you know, ideals. But do not let these fascist fucks fool you. They are not actually socialist. The term arose out of attempts to create a nationalist redefinition of socialism. Nazism rejected the Marxist concepts of class conflict and universal equality, opposed cosmopolitan internationalism,
Raven (05:58)
Thank you.
Pisha (06:22)
and sought to convince all parts of the new German society to subordinate their personal interests to the common good, accepting political interests as the main priority of economic organization, which tended to match the general outlook of collectivism or communitarianism rather than actual economic socialism. So don't let their misuse of the word socialism
um, impact your thoughts about the economic system, which is sure to be more fair than the bullshit one we've got now. So, so, Oh, well, you know, I finally got to use my undergrad, um, education, which was in European politics, primarily the European union and Germany. I really, really focused hard on Germany because I
Raven (06:59)
There you go. I feel like I'm talking to an expert over here. I love it.
Pisha (07:18)
hated Nazis that much. Like, I just really hated them. And I wanted to learn everything I could about how they rose to power and how they fell and how we can prevent that kind of bullshit from happening again. So I really got to flex my, um, my, I don't know, my college education. Thank you.
Raven (07:39)
You're nerd. Yes, you're welcome. Yeah.
Pisha (07:45)
Yeah, yeah. And so it's always okay to punch a Nazi because I'm a lawyer and I know that there's no law against it. So, punch them, punch them all. They aren't actual humans. You're fine. You're fine. Punch them.
Raven (07:53)
There you go. Yeah. Morally, legally, you're good. Yeah. Well, and if you do and you have problems and you're in the state of New Mexico, I'll help you out for free. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Pisha (08:06)
I'll help, I'll help, count us in. So yeah, that's just a little introduction to what a Nazi is. As you know, there is a rise of neo-Nazism, which is basically just political parties or groups that espouse similar ideas after the fall of the Third Reich. So I can think of a couple within our nation.
Raven (08:28)
Yikes, that's really scary.
Pisha (08:31)
Yeah, but that's, that's Nazism.
Raven (08:36)
Yeah, yeah, well, there you have it. So it exists still to this day, but we're talking about Nazism back in the day. And well, we would be talking about after World War II, you know, for the Nuremberg trials. But go ahead and tell us about that. What did we do wrong?
Pisha (08:42)
Right.
HAAA
So, okay, here's what we did wrong. We got really focused on the idea of women killing Nazis, and that's like what we honed in on. And then we found out that Nazi hunters actually didn't exist until after World War II. And the goal of these Nazi hunter, usually groups,
were to find Nazis, SS members, etc., who had fled prosecution at the Nuremberg trials. Most of these guys went to South America, as you know. But they were, yeah, yeah. So, the Nuremberg trials were these absolutely enormous criminal proceedings against members of the Nazi party following World War II. And so,
Raven (09:38)
Mm-hmm. Argentina.
Pisha (09:53)
many Nazi officials, the ones that weren't.
coward enough to kill themselves, not naming any names, Joseph Goebbels, and killed their own whole family too, by the way, that guy killed all like 14 of his kids. And then he and his wife killed the each other whatever point is I hate them. So he escaped prosecution by blowing his brains out. And the ones that actually thought they'd give it a shot, tend to
Raven (10:11)
Bye.
Yeah, fucking hell. Ugh.
Pisha (10:25)
flee to South America. However, a few of them remained in Europe. There were some bold ones, one of which we'll talk later, who continued going by the same name, living in the same town. He did not give a...
Raven (10:39)
Whoa.
Pisha (10:40)
Yeah. So, yeah, that's where we went wrong, but don't worry, everyone. We realized it and we did add a real Nazi hunter to the list of people that we're going to talk about.
Raven (10:44)
Ballsy.
Right, I thought we were still talking about the guy and we learned a lesson from history as to Nazis. And I was going to say, I'm not sure if we've learned any lessons since World War II. There's, you know, genocide continuing today. It's a sad world we live in. But anyway, no, yes, you're right. We, because we're superior to everybody. Just kidding.
Pisha (11:06)
Yeah
Absolutely.
Ha ha ha.
Raven (11:25)
that we did learn, we learned our lesson and we added someone to the list. So, yeah.
Pisha (11:31)
That's right. So let's jump into it. My first group of really bad-ass Nazi hunters who aren't technically Nazi hunters. They're just Nazi murderers. We have Freddie and Truus. I'm going to say this like an American, I apologize. Oversteegen. They were sisters and members of the anti-Nazi Dutch resistance
Their family hid a Jewish family in their house during World War II and the Nazi occupation of the Netherlands. And before the war, they were housing a Lithuanian family in the hold of their barge. I don't really know the circumstances of that and why they would be hiding Lithuanians, but I thought it was interesting. It just kind of shows that this family has a really compassionate nature and helping their fellow man.
Freddie and Truus joined the resistance when they were just 14 and 16 years old. They were noticed by the resistance when they were handing out anti-Nazi pamphlets and leaflets around town. They got noticed by the resistance and with their mother's permission, yes, they asked for the mother's permission, they joined the resistance. I know, I was like, that's nice. Ask your mommy first.
Raven (12:45)
That's kinda sweet. Mm-hmm. Mom, can I go join the resistance? What would your mom say?
Pisha (12:52)
Mom, can I go? Oh, my mom would, okay, well, okay. She would say yes, but she would say no, because she'd be like, you're gonna die immediately. Like you're like, not because I'm stupid, but because I'm just so loud and vocal and opinionated that I wouldn't do a very good job of like hiding the fact that I'm resistance. So I think she'd be like, don't do it because I'd be so bad at it.
Raven (12:56)
I know what your mom would say.
Well, yeah, it should be a little bit realistic.
Hehehehehehe
Oh, I was gonna say I think she would just join it with you. Like, she'd be like, alright, let's go.
Pisha (13:23)
I mean, she would. Her heart's in the right place. I think she lacks confidence in my ability to be an effective resistance member in secret. And that's where that comes from. But what about you? Would your mom let you join the resistance?
Raven (13:26)
Mm-hmm.
I'm gonna go.
That's awesome.
So my mom doesn't want me to go skiing because it's too cold outside.
Pisha (13:48)
Okay. Well, I guess I see where this is going. Yeah, so probably not. Okay. So, well, back to Freddie and Truus, whose mom totally allowed them to join the resistance. They worked to sabotage the Nazi military and disrupt their movements by blowing up bridges and railroad tracks. They even smuggled Jewish children out of concentration camps and the country.
Raven (13:50)
So I'm gonna say no. No. Anyway.
Pisha (14:17)
Freddie committed her first Nazi murder when she was just out riding her bike one day. Just shot the fucker in the back. Just was like, I'm gonna shoot and kill that guy. Yeah, yeah, that was really cool. So she started this murdering business and it became a campaign by the girls and their friend Hannie Schaft, who I wish I had talked about her more than this. She was
Raven (14:25)
Hell yeah. Just, nah, I'm just a kid's guy. Yeah, alright. Got it, girl.
Pisha (14:46)
absolutely incredible. Just an incredible member of the resistance, the things she did. She was personally wanted by Hitler. That's how important she was. Yeah. So I wish I had talked about her more, but she was actually a lawyer prior to World War II or had received some kind of legal education. So she used her legal knowledge to kind of navigate in the resistance.
Raven (14:57)
Oh shit. Wow.
Yeah, yeah.
Pisha (15:16)
So, so, Hannie and Freddie and Truus would lure Nazis out to the forest under the pretense of romantic interaction and then murder the shit out of them. They would just like swarm them and just kill them. And that was awesome. My favorite murder by the sisters though, probably.
Raven (15:36)
Nice. Oh yeah.
Pisha (15:43)
was Truus was riding her bike. They hadn't, they apparently killed a lot of people on their bikes. It was a bike. Yeah. It's, it's a bike by shooting. And so that's what she would do and they would both do. And yeah. So, so this story in particular is really trigger warning everyone. But this one day Truus was
Raven (15:50)
I love this. Bike riding, murder, murdering bitches. It's like, that's fucking badass. That's awesome.
Innovative.
Pisha (16:13)
riding her bike through the town and a Nazi officer had taken a baby out of a man's arms and in front of the man and his daughter, the baby's sister, he took the baby by the feet and smashed it repeatedly into a wall until the baby was dead. And so the father and the
Raven (16:36)
Oh
Pisha (16:42)
daughter obviously crying, completely traumatized, and Truus gets off her bike, pulls out her gun, and shoots that officer in the back, just execution style. And so that was my favorite murder because it was like the most immediate vengeance. And so a lot of their activities though, what they're known for,
Raven (16:53)
Oh yeah, nice.
Hmm.
Pisha (17:11)
was luring the officers out into the forest, you know, making them think they were going to get a little, yeah, a little, little something, something. Yeah. So I, like I said, they don't technically count as not Nazi hunters, but they were damn fine Nazi murderers. They were never caught throughout the war. Like, um,
Raven (17:16)
seducing them. Yeah, there's a few of these. I love it.
Pisha (17:36)
at least the Oversteegen sisters. Unfortunately, Hannie Schaft was caught just days, oh my God. It was so close to the end of the occupation and she was tortured and eventually executed. So she was posthumously awarded all kinds of medals of honor just for all the amazing work she did for anti-fascist resistance and also for the Jewish
survivors of the Holocaust, like and the victims, like everything she did to, I don't think any of these people were Jewish. And they had no dog in the fight. All they saw was humanity being lost, and they were going to stand up for it, and they were going to die for it. And she did die for it.
Raven (18:07)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow. Yeah, whoa. That is... that's crazy. Um, but, but so awesome. Like, good, good for her. You know.
Pisha (18:35)
Right? So, so those are, those are my girls. I also think that, um, Truus is maybe like my 1930s doppelganger. So I feel.
Raven (18:39)
Yeah.
Oh yeah, I was gonna say, so I mean like, Freddie just looks like a Nazi hunter. Well, she looks like a Nazi killer. Like she's got this smirk on her face that's just like, I'm coming to get you.
Pisha (18:53)
Oh yeah!
Oh, this like seductive sly, I'm gonna get you. You and your Nazi fuckers. Ah!
Raven (19:01)
I love it. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Pisha (19:08)
So, I know, I just, I love this picture of them. It's amazing. They, I think they're, no, they died very shortly one after another, but after years of activism. So incredible people, incredible women and those are my Nazi murderers. I want to hear about your Nazi murderer.
Raven (19:22)
I'm out of here.
Wow. Yeah, all right. Well, so the one that I learned about, so I had one in mind, I may make mention of her just because it's a really awesome story, but Niuta Tajtelbaum and I know I'm butchering that name, I practiced as much as I possibly could and I knew I was still gonna butcher it, but.
Pisha (19:51)
It's impossible to say a name with that many J's in it, is all I have to say.
Raven (19:55)
Yeah, seriously, just use regular letters, please. So, Niuta was also known as Little Wanda with the Braids or the heroine of Warsaw. So, she was in the Polish resistance and she was raised Jewish in Poland when the occupation came to Poland. And so, she...
studied history at the Warsaw University. So she was a student, she was smart and she was just ready to go kick some ass. So the resistance, at least a lot of, especially a lot of women in the resistance started out as kind of like couriers. So they would bring in, from, I don't know, newspapers to like, to people. And so that's how she, go ahead.
Pisha (20:43)
Well, sorry to interrupt, but that's why Truus and Freddie were always on their bikes, because they were acting as couriers for the resistance. And so they would often be bringing like maps or communications or whatever from different members of the resistance to each other. So like, yeah, also newspapers and stuff like that, but probably more likely like secret communications of the resistance.
Raven (20:50)
Oh, there you go. Yeah.
Right. Yeah, that's probably, I use newspapers as an example, but yeah, it's trying to relay messages and yeah, go ahead.
Pisha (21:12)
Did, but, but did she have, how, how was her bike though? Like, did it compare to Freddie and Trus' bikes?
Raven (21:22)
I haven't seen pictures of it. So, you know, there's not actually a whole lot of information about her. And so the reason that we really know about her is because there was this Jewish author or historian really, who was doing some like anthropological work and came across this Yiddish book called Women in the Gettos.
And it was published in 1946 and it was about all of these women who were doing, you know, all of this resistance work and getting none to the credit for. It's a really hard book to translate apparently. But she then decided to write her own book kind of updating and translating into English. It's called The Light of Days, the Untold Story of Women Resistance Fighters in Hitler's ghettos. Her name is Judy Battalion.
which is like the coolest name. I don't know, I just like it. Yeah. I know, I know. I'm gonna see if I can find it. Yeah, for sure. I don't know what ever happened to the other book that I sent you. I need to look into that. I keep thinking about it. And like I sent it like a month ago at this point. But anyway. Yeah. Not this one. Yeah. I didn't send this one. I sent the Prison Riot one. So we're-
Pisha (22:10)
love it and I also need to read this. It sounds like really good books.
It's about prison riots, not about Nazi hunters or yeah.
It's gonna like come when we least expect it and I'm gonna be like, oh, a prison riot present.
Raven (22:36)
Yeah, exactly. It's out of fashion at this point. But anyway, yeah, so that's how we know about Niuta Tajtelbaum is because of this historian, which is super cool. And so she, one of the quotes that she was attributed with is, I am a Jew, my place is in the struggle against the Nazis for the
Pisha (22:42)
Oh
Raven (23:04)
I think a lot of people in the resistance were really fighting for Poland. You probably know more about this than I do, but this is at least the gist that I was getting out of it. But eventually, as things started progressing, there was definitely more of an element of people who either were Jewish or who were not, who just wanted to help with the cause and were part of the resistance and part of the struggle against
the genocide that was happening. So anyway, so she yeah, so she started out as a courier, but she pretty quickly made her way to murder and I love her first murder. It's like maybe my favorite one that I've heard and why I changed my person, my Nazi killer, not necessarily Hunter person to her is because so she
I just love a good like woman who uses like sexism against men. Like that's just maybe one of my favorite things. It's just a real jab at you. So she goes to this place where there's a bunch of like SS guards and officers and stuff. She, you know, gets the name of this SS officer who's the highest ranking one there. She goes up to the guard to that area.
And she, you know, goes looking very demure and very embarrassed and very sweet with her little pigtails. And, yeah, she did. She actually did have the braids. And she was blonde. So her pictures don't actually look like she was blonde. So she's, you know, I think she was 22, but she looked really young. And so the, you know, she presented well to this officer, this guard.
Pisha (24:26)
She really had the braids, I love this!
Raven (24:43)
And the guard just kind of like chuckled and was like, sure, you go ahead, his room number is XYZ and go ahead and have at it. And just kind of laughed about it. So she goes straight up there, no questions asked, and opens the door, like, you know, it's not knocking, she doesn't need to knock on the door, she's just gonna go straight in there. And she pulls out a pistol with a silencer, which actually I didn't know that they had silencers back then, but I think it's super cool. Anyway, yeah, yeah. So she shoots him straight in the head.
and then walks out.
Pisha (25:14)
I hope that the one guy got fired.
because he didn't do a good job there. But also, well done. Like, whoo, she did it. She got past the guards and she kind of used the same sort of like sexism that Freddie and Truus used.
Raven (25:22)
Oh my god, no, he did a very bad job, yeah, no, um...
Yes!
Mm-hmm.
Pisha (25:48)
Yeah.
Raven (25:49)
Yeah, well she said it was about a personal matter, which I think the guard took to mean that either a pregnancy or something like that. She was totally playing the part. It was awesome. Yeah, so that was my favorite one that she did. But then this is also super badass. So she later, I think this is in the middle of the street, I actually don't know how she got away with this one, but she killed two Gestapo.
officers, then wounded a third one, right? So the third one ends up going to the hospital, and she finds out what hospital he's at, and she dresses up in a lab coat, like a white lab coat, and pretends to be a doctor, and then she goes and finds his room, shoots the guard, and shoots him, and they're all dead. So, yep, so also, f**k it, just...
Pisha (26:40)
She's a mistress of disguise. She's, I just, I love her gusto.
Raven (26:46)
Oh, me too. She's just, she's, she's the best. She's, she's awesome.
Pisha (26:50)
She puts on a lab coat and they're like, sure doctor, go right in.
Raven (26:54)
Why not? You know, yeah, it's like, you know, using the unassumingness of women against men is just yeah, like, great. So yeah, yeah. So those are the stories that we do know of. I don't know, you know, I'd like to get this book so I can, you know, see what else is out there. But she did evade capture for three years. And then when the Warsaw uprising happened, you know, they were really cracking up.
Pisha (27:02)
Wow.
Raven (27:22)
uh on or cracking up cracking down they were not crack i hope they were not cracking up i think they were more crying yes yeah fuck those guys yeah they are not funny at all no um yeah have you seen stephen miller uh anyway he is a joke
Pisha (27:25)
whatever direction it was.
They're like, ha ha. This is so funny. They probably were douchebag Nazis with their terrible sense of humor.
Is it about Dr. Asperger?
Raven (27:53)
What? I don't know this. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Pisha (27:55)
Okay. Do we, do we have time for a Nazi joke? Okay. So, well, it's not really a joke. It's kind of real, but, so remember the, the term Asperger's syndrome. It, it, yeah, it used, yeah, it used to be a condition and now it's been generally lumped into autism spectrum disorder, ASD.
Raven (27:58)
Please.
Okay.
Mm-hmm. Yes. Okay. Yes. This is where you about
Pisha (28:20)
So the reason why it was lumped into ASD was because doctor.
What condition is this? Oh, thank you, sorry, oh my God. Doctor, I like blacked out. I was like, Doctor, oh, okay. So Dr. Asperger was a Nazi, and he discovered Asperger's syndrome when he noticed that a bunch of the Jewish children, some of them were clumsy and didn't have...
Raven (28:33)
Oh god, I hate when that happens.
Yeah.
Pisha (28:54)
good senses of humor and the joke goes like this, well maybe you had the worst fucking jokes because you were a Nazi and they were Jewish kids. Like come on, they're not gonna fucking laugh at your jokes. Knock, knock, who's there? It's Hitler, ooh. Bang, bang, you're dead. Like, oh, like that's terrible joke. So, yeah. Yeah.
Raven (29:06)
No, yeah. Oh, they're not all. Who's there?
No, no, you're just get booed off the stage. Yeah, so yeah, so he was, he was wrong. Yeah.
Pisha (29:26)
He was wrong, but I mean, he wasn't exactly wrong about the condition.
Raven (29:30)
No, he was right in concept, wrong in application, I guess. Yeah.
Pisha (29:34)
Or yeah, I just, I really seriously doubt that the people that he identified as having Asperger's actually did have Asperger's because they probably were just Jewish folk who were like, I'm clumsy. Yeah, first of all, you're not funny. Second of all, I'm clumsy because I haven't eaten in three weeks. And I have no balance and coordination and I can't make social connections because you're murdering my entire fucking family.
Raven (29:45)
Yeah.
Not funny, dude. Yeah.
Seriously, ugh.
Pisha (30:03)
So anyways, that's my fun little Asperger's Nazi joke, which isn't really a joke, but it's like a fun fact.
Raven (30:09)
I love it.
Well, it is a fun fact. And it is kind of, it is pretty funny. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I guess we're talking about Niuta still, right? Yeah, so Niuta, so, oh, we were talking about the Warsaw uprising. So yeah, so that kind of came to a head. So she actually made like one of like the most wanted on like the Nazi most wanted lists or whatever.
Pisha (30:18)
So.
Oh yeah!
Oh yeah. Oh.
Raven (30:39)
Just make sure you like the FBI most, but it's the Nazis. Probably how it was.
Pisha (30:41)
I keep seeing, what was his name? Walsh, the Walsh guy being like, I'm here for Nazis most wanted.
Raven (30:51)
That's right. Yeah, except it's, yeah, whatever, Gustav. Might as well be. Anyway. Warsaw uprising. And all, you know, all these posters are going out with little Wanda with the braids. That's how they...
Pisha (30:56)
I- Yeah, Gustav. What? Is that German?
Oh my god. Okay, so Warsaw Uprising is occurring.
Raven (31:17)
they knew her. And so they put out all these posters to try and find her. And, you know, she, like I said, she had, they did capture her for two months after the uprising, but eventually before she could swallow the poison pills that she had, because she didn't want to get tortured and killed, before she could do that, they did capture her. And unfortunately, she was tortured for weeks.
Pisha (31:36)
Damn.
Raven (31:40)
and you know, never gave up anything at all. I mean, it's yeah. So died to hero. she was eventually, executed. So, but I never said shit about shit. So good for her. Yeah.
Pisha (31:43)
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah, yeah, no, that was the same with Hannie Schaft. She was, I think it was weeks of torture, just the worst kind of imaginable, the worst kind of imaginable, whatever, the worst torture imaginable.
Raven (31:57)
Yeah.
But,
Pisha (32:08)
I'll be like, hey, can I just poison myself now? And they're like, you're not even captured yet. I'm like, oh. I just don't want to live anymore, so.
Raven (32:09)
I'm gonna keep them in my pockets.
This is why I would not do well in the resistance. Yeah, can I take them now as we speak? Because life is hell. Exactly, I don't want to make this phone call, please. Don't torture me like this. Or answer my phone. Yeah.
Pisha (32:26)
Because I don't want to send this email. Exactly, exactly. Dang. Okay. Right? Same. So, okay. So, Little Wanda with the braids. I definitely would have switched up my hairstyle to confuse them.
Raven (32:41)
Yeah, yeah, she was. Yeah, I don't I don't know if she did or if she just like wore it like a badge of honor, but I will tell you who did not do that. And that is Virginia Hall. So Virginia Hall, I'm just going to talk about her briefly because I know this wasn't part of like the schedule. But I was like, you know, we probably need to make mention of her because she was.
Pisha (32:51)
Yeah.
She was so badass.
Raven (33:08)
Holy moly, like her story is crazy. So she was disabled and couldn't really walk. She had like, she had a limp. I think she, I can't remember how she injured her leg, but it had something to do with, you know, her resistance work as well. She was American. And so she was trying to get into the United States. What, I can't remember. It was the army, I think, but I'm not, I don't really quite remember.
didn't get in because she was a lady. And so ultimately went and became a spy. She was like one of the most educated, like I don't remember how she was educated, but I just know she had like every, you know, bit of education that she could possibly get her hands on and became like the most incredible spy.
for the French because the Americans would not take her. So she was like, all right, well, fuck you. I'm gonna go join the French army. And she did. And the French took her in because they were a lot more enlightened than us in some ways, in some other ways, maybe not so much. But in any case, so she joins the French army and she is an amazing spy. She was like the master of disguise. And this is why I think that she's so great.
She, you know, would dress herself up and was completely anonymous and like would, you know, gather information that way. And you know, people would talk to her because she was so unassuming. But then the Americans eventually wanted her and she was kind of like, I'm not sure. But they did eventually enlist her.
And I think my favorite thing about her is that she was given a bunch of awards, like after everything was said and done, that she refused to accept. Like she didn't go, yeah, because she thought it was not befitting of a spy to have her name known and to have, yeah. So I was just like, she was just like true and true, like true believer, amazing. So
Pisha (35:08)
makes sense.
Do you think that the government was trying to out her by putting her names? Like that does seem rather odd to identify someone engaged in espionage by their name.
Raven (35:29)
That's a good point. I don't know. I think the Americans were being really shy-sty with her, so it's entirely possible that was purposeful.
Pisha (35:38)
Although I bet it was inadvertent and they were just freaking idiots. And it's like, oh yeah, let's put her at risk and not even think about it. And she used her brain and was like, oh yeah, that's the greatest way for a spy to get taken out is to be like, here, I'm here to get my award. You wanna shoot me in the head now?
Raven (35:45)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Right. Exactly. Yeah, I think she eventually like just agreed to like an anonymous, but she wouldn't go to the president's office. Like they had like this whole thing where, you know, the president was going to give her this award and she refused. So good on her. Mm hmm. Yeah. So anyway, those are my ladies. Mm hmm. One's less of a...
Pisha (36:13)
Good for her.
I love them. I've got one love, what'd you, oh, but it was still good. But here's the thing, Nazi hunters technically didn't kill their targets. We learned this later. So I found a real woman Nazi hunter and she has
Raven (36:22)
tell our story, but anyway.
Yeah.
Right. This is true, yes.
Pisha (36:45)
a really incredible story. Like, not that the other ladies don't, but her story is so fascinating. Her name is Beate Klarsfeld. She is a journalist and a feminist, born in Berlin in 1939 to parents who, quote unquote, weren't Nazis, but they voted for Hitler and sent Beate to live with her godfather, a Nazi official in the 1940s, and also acted a whole lot like Nazis.
following the fall of the Third Reich. So she, yeah, I know, she would argue with her parents about taking accountability for the Nazi era. However, her parents did not feel responsible. They focused on the injustice and material losses they suffered and felt absolutely no remorse for anybody else. Like for example, the Jews.
Raven (37:16)
Next.
rough. Yeah. I mean, I can only liken this to people whose parents are Trump supporters. It's got to be tough, but it's not. I mean, it's nowhere near being a supporter of Hitler, but
Pisha (37:39)
But yeah, they're not Nazis.
Exactly. Yeah, it's kind of close these days given the similarity of rhetoric, but whatever. We're not talking about that. What we're talking about is Beate She's awesome. So she moved to Paris in the 1960s and married a French lawyer and historian Serge Klarsfeld, whose father died in
Raven (38:01)
Yeah... No.
Pisha (38:16)
She began outing Nazis running for political office in Germany in the late 60s. There was this guy who was trying to run for chancellor, I think. And she's like, are you serious? This guy literally was a member, like a paying member of the Nazi party. He should be forced to resign all of his office and all of his public positions. And she was successful, ultimately. So in 1971,
Raven (38:26)
Mm-hmm.
Pisha (38:45)
She was arrested and served two months in prison for the attempted kidnapping of Kurt Lischka, who was responsible for deporting 76,000 Jews out of France. This is the guy I was telling you about, the brazen motherfucker who didn't even change his name, lived in the same house, just was like, nah, I'm not, I don't.
Raven (38:59)
Oh.
Pisha (39:12)
kill 76,000 people? No way, not me. So she was going to kidnap him and apparently turn him into some sort of like Justice Department, international like Justice Department and not kill him, which made me sad. I would have preferred that. But she was arrested even though the attempt wasn't successful. She served two months and then was released.
Raven (39:33)
Yeah.
Pisha (39:42)
She is also known for searching in Chile and Paraguay for war criminals Walter Rauff and Josef Mengele in the mid-80s. And then in 1987, Klaus Barbie or the Butcher of Lyon was arrested on her initiative. She helped find him in Bolivia in the late 70s and it took that long to get him like extradited. And I want to say…
Raven (40:03)
No way.
Pisha (40:11)
He eventually, I can't remember what, I don't know, probably life in prison. I just hope he's dead. Well, yeah, definitely now. And so let's see what else. In 1991, she fought for the extradition of Alois Brunner, who I think was one of Eichmann's deputies. He had fled to Syria.
Raven (40:17)
I'm sure he's dead now, but...
Pisha (40:36)
she was able to successfully get him extradited back to France where he got life in prison. And she continues to this day, continues to this day to fight fascism and commemorate the victims of the Holocaust. She goes to all kinds of seminars and symposiums, talks about tolerance and love and compassion and humanity and how even growing, yeah, even growing up with parents like hers
Raven (40:43)
Good.
Oh.
Pisha (41:04)
she still knew the right way to treat humans and the wrong way. You know what I mean? Like, she still had a moral compass. And so, she doesn't believe that the excuse, oh, I grew up this way is good enough. She believes people have the free will and freedom of thought to choose to think a more compassionate and loving way.
Raven (41:12)
Yeah.
Wow, to have that much like hope and love after witnessing like the level of atrocities, that is really incredible.
Pisha (41:38)
Well, she was born in 39. So she, yeah, she didn't witness a lot of the rounding up of the Jews and exterminations of the ghettos and whatever, you know, the concentration camps, but she was very aware of it. I mean, she grew up with it. Her godfather, like I said, I think she lived with him for several years in the 40s while the war was still going on. So she knew.
Raven (41:41)
So she didn't see the...
Right.
Right.
Pisha (42:08)
and, and then for your parents, you know, how disappointing for them to not even look back and be like, yeah, I voted for the guy, but I totally regret it. they can't even do that. So.
Raven (42:19)
yeah.
It's really hard to change people's minds, let me tell ya. Yeah.
Pisha (42:25)
No kidding. No kidding. So that's Beate Klarsfeld. She is so cool. They've made movies about her. They've made books. They've written books. She and her husband have written books together. They have, I think them two together are responsible for taking down like seven of the most top wanted Nazi fugitives.
Raven (42:45)
That's really incredible. That's awesome. Yeah. Hats off to Beate... Yeah, well, you know, you don't always have to murder. I mean, the thing is like... I typically, I mean, we talk about this, like I am not a pro-death penalty person, I'm very anti-death penalty. But when it comes to Nazis, they're the exception. They just are. So... Yeah, me too.
Pisha (42:47)
Yeah. And she didn't even have to murder anyone.
really hate Nazis. In case I haven't said that for this episode. Yeah. So, before I let you end this episode for us, I want to describe to our listeners, the derangers, the last slide of our outline for the Nazi hunters.
Raven (43:13)
No, I didn't know that actually until you just said it just right now.
Yes, please do.
Pisha (43:35)
If you will recall, my phone auto corrected Nazi to Nacho, and a hilarious conversation ensued between Raven and I about Nacho hunters. And so for the last slide, I got like these three little tortilla chips. They look so happy and they're like dunking themselves in cheese and I've like situated it. So it's like an animal watering hole.
Raven (43:48)
Nacho Hunters, yep.
Hahaha
Pisha (44:04)
And then I've got this hunter in the corner behind a bush like with his rifle up ready to just shoot these unassuming nachos. Oh, I'm so. Oh, so proud of this slide. I worked. I worked very hard on it.
Raven (44:15)
What's going on? These poor little nachos are so innocent. I love it. Like I said, I snorted. Yeah, it was. I'm going to go to bed.
Pisha (44:26)
So, so yeah, um, not nacho hunters, but Nazi hunters. That is, that's it for it.
Raven (44:34)
Yeah, yeah. Well, learned a lot. Very, very interesting. I mean, there's, we've, this is a shorter episode for us. We just because we talk so much usually. But there's no, I mean, there's so much out there on Nazi hunters, Nazi killers, the resistance, like, and especially with regards to women. So, so I think I'll do another grab one of these books, and maybe we'll do an update here.
at some point once we get a look at the book, if I can actually get it to you. If it ever actually arrives, yeah. So yeah, so that was great. Thank you for all of your wealth of knowledge that you contributed to this. This is really a Pisha production.
Pisha (45:07)
if it actually arrives ever.
That's right, and take it from Pisha, folks. It's always okay to punch a Nazi.
Raven (45:27)
Yes, that's as my sweatshirt says, it's okay to punch Nazis. Yeah, go listen to Cheap Perfume for us please. I think I'm going to try and title the... we'll see, it's a democratic system we have between Pisha and I, so we'll decide if it's going to be the Nacho Hunters or it's okay to punch Nazis.
Pisha (45:41)
Thanks for watching!
It might be all of them, who knows? We might go on a posting binge since we went on a little bit of an accidental break recently.
Raven (45:51)
Hell yeah!
Yeah, we might as well catch up for lost time. Yeah, so, but yeah, so that's our episode on Nacho Hunters or Nazi hunters or if you just women who kill Nazis and are badass. So next week, one of my other favorite topics is Black Widows, not the spiders, but the women who kill their husbands. So just rounding out Women's History Month in case you weren't angry at men enough.
Pisha (46:21)
Right, right. In case you were wondering where we fell on the feminism spectrum.
Raven (46:23)
Yeah.
You had no clue where we were.
Pisha (46:29)
Right, right, it'll be clear next week.
Raven (46:32)
Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, we gotta decide on, yeah, go ahead. What's up?
Pisha (46:37)
Sorry, I also remembered our Facebook live event. I keep remembering it at the last minute. I'm super excited. Everyone tune in Facebook live the 26th at 6 30 p.m. Raven and I are going to be live reacting to the HBO documentary, The Insurrectionists Next Door and cross stitching.
Raven (46:42)
Oh yes, yeah, perfect.
Yeah, we'll post what cross-stitches we're going to be doing, I think. I think I know mine, but I haven't quite decided.
Pisha (47:06)
I've picked mine out already, I'm very excited about it. I'm gonna hang it by the door.
Raven (47:10)
Awesome. Ooh, yeah, I'm gonna send mine to my enemies, so. Ha ha ha.
Pisha (47:17)
I love it.
Raven (47:19)
Anyway, alright, so yeah, so we'll see you guys, well we'll see you on Tuesday for our live episode and then we, or live stream or whatever. I'm an elder of millennial, I fucking don't know what I'm talking about. It is. And then, yeah, otherwise we'll see you next week to talk about Black Widows. So, in the meantime, stay at a law school and the infirmaries.
Pisha (47:32)
It's all foreign language.
Bye!
Raven Deranger (47:46)
Remember to like and subscribe to Deranged DeJure on your favorite podcast platform and follow at deranged.dejure on all the major social media. Contact us by email at deranged.dejure at gmail.com. This has been a Raven Kink production.