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The HeadRush Podcast with Paul Frase takes you inside the reality of Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) through the lens of football and rodeo. With firsthand experience in one of the most punishing sports, Paul shares stories, the lasting effects of head trauma, and the fight for awareness and support.
This is the Head Rush Podcast with Paul Frase and Corey Barry.
Welcome to the Head Rush Podcast. I'm Corey Barry, and I rode professional rodeo for 9 years as a bareback rider.
And my co-host is Paul Frase, who played 11 years in the NFL.
I think he played... See if I can remember this. It's been a year.
Jets,
Jaguars, Green Bay,
and Ravens.
Yes. Now you need to s- say how many years at each. No?
Good luck with that.
That ... That was good though. Great.
At the Head Rush Podcast, we talk about everything related to brain trauma, brain health, and wellness. We talk about traumatic brain injury, chronic encephalopathy, chronic traumatic encephalopathy, ah,
CTE, traumatic encephalopathy syndrome, TES, and repeated head impacts, RHI, and repeated blast exposure, RBE. We cover how traumatic brain injuries can and will cause mental health issues such as depression, addiction, lack of executive function, memory loss, even suicide ideation, as well as degenerative neurological issues.
These symptoms can be found on the Mayo Clinic and Boston University websites under symptoms of CTE. Our mantra is how to cope and find hope. We focus our energy on finding therapies and sharing hope through education and by raising awareness.
Corey, we have, uh, some incredible guests today. We have 2 very special guests, and, uh, we're gonna, we're gonna call this the caregivers, uh, uh, edition of the Head Rush Podcast. Um, 1st of all, we have the wonderful, kindhearted,
um, uh, with the patience-
Beautiful
... of Job, beautiful woman of Corey's dreams, the lo- lovely Susan Barry. And-
Stop.
This is-
You're embarrassing me.
This is our 1st caregiver, and she's,
she's got her hands full. That's all I know.
Heck, I'm a piece of cake.
You're a piece of work.
He said something.
You're a piece of work, not a piece of cake.
Well, you can't eat sugar.
Y- you're on the sugar cut.
Yeah.
So Corey, uh, Corey and Susan have been married for nearly 27 years, and they met in October of 1998. And after a whirlwind relationship, they were married in just 5 and a half months. Through Susan's gentle nudging
-
Baseball bat over the head
... Corey began his journey through the medical maze of, um, uh... And he was diagnosed with cognitive damage, uh, nerve damage shortly after they were married. And you were diagnosed in 1999.
Correct.
And, uh, one of the as- uh, subjects that we talk about is TES, traumatic encephalopathy syndrome, and there's a whole lot between 1999 and when you were diagnosed with traumatic encephalopathy syndrome, um, suppo- uh, probable CTE.
That's the, that's the closest you can get, uh, in, in the living. Y- you know, that's the closest you can get di- diagnosed to CTE is TES.
Right.
And that was 2022?
Mm-mm. 2024.
2024.
2024.
One, one year ago this month.
Yeah.
That's why we go down-
So-
... to San Antonio again.
There's a lot to talk about between 1999 and, and 2020, and 2026. So, um-
We only have, we only have-
Yeah
... you know-
Exactly
... a little bit an hour, so
a lot of it's gonna be fuzzy.
And very fuzzy for me because I don't remember it all.
Yeah.
Um, I do gotta say,
my wife is by far
my biggest fan,
my biggest supporter,
and
the most important thing in my life, except our daughter.
Mm-hmm.
But,
you know, I was always raised that, you know, as you grow up, parents pass away, grandparents pass away, your kids come up, they leave home. The only person you got left for the rest of your life is your significant other.
And I couldn't be happier having
Susan as my partner for the rest of my life.
You're gonna, you're gonna, um, hear, uh, today that the, the sacrifice of a caregiver for, uh, uh, for a, a patient, a loved one with, um, TBI, traumatic brain injury, CTE, TES, and it's the sacrifice. Um, and our next guest...
Our next guest knows this probably better than anybody. I mean, my wife's dealing with me,
but we have Brandy Winans, who's the wife of Jeff Winans, who retired as a Raider.
And he was diagnosed with CTE,
and she has become such an advocate and went through caregiving and everything. So Brandi is probably one of the most inspirational wives from the NFL, I would say,
who is no stranger to trials and tribulations. After completing in 9 years what would take most a lifetime, she returned to Florida from Los Angeles and regrouped and braced for the 2nd chapter in her life. Brandi Weinans,
not only a NFL wife, she's an author, an inspirational speaker, a facilitator, a formal- former rodeo radio-
You got rodeo on the brain.
Uh, rad- now I lost where I was at. Radio and television host. She finished her college in Southern California with a degree in communications and psychology. Her passion is helping others, especially teens and young adults through her unique life skills seminars. She is an advocate for former pre-'93 NFL players and her family is her greatest blessing. Brandi, a huge welcome to you. Thank you for coming on.
And, and Brandi, you-
Thank you so much for having me.
It, it is a pleasure and an honor to have you on. And, and, um, uh, I don't know if you can see these 2, uh, books that Brandi is the author of, um, uh, Unbreakable Strength and, uh, On the f- uh, the Flip Side of Glory. Um,
and, uh, a- again, the show is dedicated to our healthcare givers, healthcare providers, and, uh, that is, uh... So we're gonna dive into what it is like to care for the brain injured. So, Brandi, your bio mentions the work that you do with the pre-, uh, '93 NFL players. Uh, tell us how you got involved with this.
Originally, it was the pre-'93ers. Uh, I still work with other players today, uh, former players, but they're no longer pre-'93ers. I got involved with pre-'93ers because my husband was a pre-'93er. He played, um, from 1973 through, uh, the '80 season and then was waived by the Raiders in the '81 season. So, uh, my, uh, my genre for, for working with former athletes really started it all with my husband and, and, uh, dating and then ending up being married to, uh, to an NFL player. And along the way, uh, Jeff had several injuries along the way and, um, eventually down the road, uh, neurocognitive, uh, problems that took me to, um, working and realizing that, uh,
we all needed help and we didn't know where to go.
And we all individually dealt with this for years and years and years until the, uh,
2007 Congressional hearings when we all ended up in Washington, DC and found out we were not the only ones that were suffering. We were all suffering together, um, all going through the same type of, um, emotional turmoil, what I call, um, lost in transition when the shoulder pads and the helmets come off and the doors close behind you. And the whole family unit, not only the player, but the whole family unit is lost. And we really had nobody to turn to, and we also couldn't go to our community because you want to make sure that y- your man is still a pillar of that community. So it was quite a conundrum, um, when all of the concussive stuff started with, with, um, Mike Webster's autopsy and then finally got recognized with, um, Dr. Ann McKee, Dr. Cantu through Boston University, through a young man by the name of Chris Nowinski, who was also going through head traumas and, um, neurocognitive problems from playing 4 years of football at Harvard and then going on to play professional wrestling. I just happened one night to be watching an HBO Real Sports special with this young kid on, and he was talking about a book he wrote called Head Games, and he was talking about every sign and symptom of my husband, who had just asked me for a divorce and I didn't know I was getting one. And all of a sudden, I got this knot in my stomach and I said,
"Could it be prescription drugs and disability, physical disabilities, or could it be something else?" And I couldn't get that out of my head, and I found this young man on the internet, and within 24 hours, he Googled me back and we set a time for a phone call. And the morning of the phone call, here's Joe Dee that played with my husband and Dick had talking about the Congressional hearings. And
the next thing I know, I'm on the phone with Chris Nowinski and he said, "You gotta come to Washington. I'll put you in touch with Linda Sanchez's office and you need to testify."
So-
And that's how it... It was overnight, but it was the 1st time we were all able to get together, all start a support group. We, we were together for 3 days and then HBO called me and said, "Hey, would you do an HBO Real Sport interview with Bryant, and do you have any other people that might wanna get involved?"
This episode of the Head Rush podcast is brought to you by our personal doctor and team of doctors, uh, Dr. Maiz- Maizell DeMeo, and she's with the Paradise Behavioral Health. And we are in the-
BrainWell program, which is also part of the Millennium Health Center. Uh, Dr. Mark Gordon, you've seen him on Joe Rogan and even on our show, the Head Rush podcast. Um, and, uh, hormones. And Mizelle is awesome. We love her.
She's, she's our doctor of psychiatry. She works with the Mark Gordon program with the hormones and, uh, and she, she adds her twist of genetics and, um, and it's, it's, it basically is melding 2 wonderful, uh, uh, mediums together. And we're getting great help from Dr. Mizelle Demeo.
So please check out her website at paradisebehavioral.com.
She's-
Look up the BrainWell program. Get involved.
She's sponsoring us. They're, they're sponsoring us for the next year, so we are excited to, to have them on board and, uh, and, and shout the new- the good news to everybody, uh, th- that is watching these broadcasts, so.
Is she helping you, Paul?
Absolutely. Absolutely.
She's helping me, so go check her out, paradisebehavioralhealth.com.
This is a very long story, and we could do about 5 episodes on this. Um, and we're gonna get de- deeper in that, to that. Um, so you, you and I both knew, uh, Chris Nowinski before he was Dr. Nowinski. And I, I, I-
Yes.
And I, and everybody, everybody now who has just met him is Dr. Nowinski, and it's, it's funny to hear that, but-
I call him Chris.
Well, yeah. I, uh, I, I, I do too. Yeah, I, I, he's in my phone as Chris Nowinski, not doctor. But he, he, he is a doctor of neurology, I beli- I believe, right? That's, that's his, his heading. Susan, I wanna, I wanna go back to Cory for a bit. Um, Cory was diagnosed with cognitive nerve damage due to repeated head impacts shortly after you were married.
What caused you to encourage him to get tested? Because he, he had not started that road down to, you know, get tested by doctors and so on and so forth.
Right. So this was before CTE was even known. This was basically their only cognitive nerve damage basically told you that you had too much white matter on the gray matter of your brain.
They said it was scar tissue, and they concluded that it was because of, you know, too much head trauma. But
there wasn't a doctor back then in the late 1999s, early 2000s that would actually take the time to sit you down and do neurological or any psych evals or anything like that. They would pump you full of pills. They would say, "You need to do this. You need to do that." They would send you to counselors. They would send you, you know, to all these different doctors. So with what was going on with him and the, quote unquote, "episodes" that he was having,
we didn't know how to handle them. Um,
people would tell us that they were petite mal seizures or they were mini strokes or TIAs. And, you know, we'd get so scared that we would end up taking him to the emergency room where he can't walk in because he can barely use his legs and can barely voice anything to the emergency room personnel. And the next thing you know, they're like, "Well, we can't do anything for you," and they make him walk out. He came in in a wheelchair 'cause he can't walk, but you're forcing us to walk out. So we went years and years and years before
it finally got to the point where it was unsafe for Cory and it was getting dangerous. He would be able to feel everything coming on and he could slow down,
but there were times where he would drive somewhere and it would be a couple of hours down the road and wouldn't know where he was at, wouldn't know how he got there.
So we've had, we've had plenty of scary moments, but
nothing compared to what we've gone through in the last 3 years, the progression of it and
how much worse it is compared to November 14th of 2022.
Mm-hmm.
He was a n- normal person
until-
Semi-normal.
Well, you've never been truly normal, normal. So no one, no one can handle you but me.
So, so what, what was the event that, uh, took place in, uh...
Well, to start things off, in early December, I think it was...
We met in October. Early December, he was helping me move into a townhome back in Oregon. And he comes up the sidewalk, and he didn't trip, unless he's just being sly. You know, cowboys have that way of being sly. And he kind of just fell into my arms, but didn't, didn't pass out, didn't trip. And we're like, "Okay, what's going on?" That's when he went to the doctor and found out he had a broken neck for a year and a half.
We're still competing.
He was still riding.
Still competing. So within that time,
it was... And I can't remember if it was, you know, just a couple of months or for 6 or 7 months when he decided that he's no longer gonna rodeo because now-
I decided.
Hey, I wasn't part of your rodeo life. I'm, I'm-
Yeah, you're the reason it ended.
I'm getting the baggage.
Time out.
I'm getting the baggage.
Time out, time out. So-
So I, what happened is I ended up calling Tandy Freeman, who's head of the PRCA Cowboys and kinda orchestrates everything. And he sent-
The Cowboy Crisis Fund.
Right, through the Cowboy Crisis Fund, and they sent me down to UCSF
to get studied by Dr. Jorgensen, right?
Mm-hmm.
And that's when they told me I had a broken neck and cognitive nerve damage, and then ordered neurological testing and all of that back in '99.
I think it was further down the road than that.
Was it?
Yeah.
But I would get rage issues. I would... And what she's talking about is I would literally... My neck was pinching into my spinal cord, so if I tripped right or did something right,
I'm out. I'm not out out, but I'm loopy. And then neurological issues that's going on with that, it all kinda bounced down. And we didn't find out nothing until 2019 or '14.
2012.
Sanchez?
Well,
2010 was when we lived here in Dallas, and you had the big episode at the DFW Airport.
And you went through all of the battery of tests, the sleep deprivation, uh, weeks and weeks of testing and neurological testing, and they still didn't know what was wrong with you. And-
And that's in 2010.
And then we moved back to Oregon in 2010. And in 2011, 2012, Corey was
driving big truck, an 18-wheeler, and he was heading from Southern Oregon to Los Angeles. And went a coup- like I said, couple hours down the road, pulls over to get service on cell phone, 'cause, you know, back then it was pretty spotty. There wasn't as, as many towers as there is now. And he told me, he goes, "I don't know how I got here. I don't remember driving."
Hmm. Yeah.
He's hauling 80,000 pounds worth of cargo in that trailer.
And he was driving in a blackout.
And he was basically driving at a blackout. So I called the ambulance. They sent 2. They sent the CHP out there. And Bailey and I were out shopping, and we started heading down there. And they take him to Redding, California. And what do they say? "Oh, he's having a stroke." He's not having a stroke.
Mm.
I don't know, you know?
So let... We're, we're gonna come back to that. I wa- I wanna keep that, take a picture, a snapshot o- of where we are-
I might forget.
... where, where we are. Yeah, I'll forget. But, uh, well, and, and, and you, you were competing with a bro- broken neck, and it, it was before, uh, they had Toradol. They, they probably never gave you Toradol or anything like-
I don't even know what Toradol is, though.
Well, I had, I had a, a, a, a sciatica going down my, uh, left leg, and my lower back was locked up, and they shot me f- with Toradol, and I had the best game of my life. And when I, uh, when the drug wore off, uh, 18 hours later, I, I couldn't even walk. Anyway.
Well, he had surgery in 2000-
Yeah
... and had his neck fused.
He had n- n- neck fused, yeah.
So we figured out the neck issue in '99. Surgery was in 2000. And then couple years pass, and then you do surgery on shoulders, and then you start having little more episodes-
Yeah
... one by one by one.
Okay, so let, let's, let's come back to that spot. Um,
Brandy, you, you married-
Yeah.
You were married Jeff before CTE was a thing.
Yes.
Um, and-
We dated, uh, for 2 years, and we got married in 1981. And his career was winding down at the time, uh, that we met. We met when he was playing for Tampa. And then, uh, he got waived from Tampa, and they basically told him, "Set out and pick up another team." And he always wanted to go back to the Raiders, and the Raiders picked him back up. Um, but
he had a lot of physical injuries prior to that, and then a lot of surgeries from physical injuries. And so as... When he 1st left football, he was, uh, going through depression, which I just thought was normal and everything that, you know, your livelihood, you played 8 years in the pros, 18 years of football is, you know, that's normal. But he had tried to commit suicide with pills and then, um, thought that was the only way he could take care of me, and that was way before our child, uh, was born. But, um, I was already noticing some things with, with, uh, anger outbursts and some flooding, um, which I learned about later. And so I wasn't, I wasn't in tune with anything going on here. I was more c- in tune with all of his physical disabilities and depression. And then we got past all of that, um, just before the gunshot accident. And then throughout the next, um, 25 years, he continued to, uh, deteriorate, um, emotionally, physically. And... But all along the way, I was just thinking it was prescription drugs and physical until 2007. And then I realized there was something else going on. And at that time, um, he did not
give into it. In his mind, he was still this tough guy, and there was nothing wrong with him. It was just- ... my problem. I was the problem. And, um, and so throughout the next few years, it, he just kept deteriorating, um, emotionally as well until he realized that maybe since he saw me helping other people after the Congressional hearings and moving forward working with other players. In 2010, we started getting back together and he said, "Well, you know, you're helping all these other people. You don't, you're not helping me." And I said, "I've tried, but you, you have to ask. You have to want it." And so he started giving in and wanting to get some brain scans, and that's when we started realizing that it was more of a neurological problem along with the physical disabilities. And then we started trying to wean him off of all the Duragesic patches, which were straight fentanyl, 120 Soma-
Wow
... 60 Valium, um, for breakthrough, 60 Percocet for breakthrough. I mean, he was on everything under the sun. And the Toradol you were talking about, you know, you know what that goes on in the locker room. So, uh, these guys... I, I don't know about you, Paul, but when you're, when you have a team position, you are relying on them to take care of you. And so when they're giving you all these things, um, you're accepting that they're doing the right thing for you as well.
Uh, I, I, I agree, um, but I also, uh, personally experienced this because I'm the one that did that, did it. I went to my doctor 2 hours before the game when I couldn't even... I was supposed to be long snapping and bending- ... all the way over and long snapping.
I couldn't even touch my knees. And I told-
Oh, no
... and I told, uh, I told the doc, I says, "Doc, you gotta give me something." I, you know. And he says, "What, what are you talking about?" And I said, "I can't touch my knees. I gotta... Y- you know I gotta play." Because I was backing up one of the, you know, uh, uh, a superstar that needed, uh, some... He actually needed a little respite because he, his back was bothered. And the doctor says, uh, "Well, what's wrong?" And I said, "My back." He says, "Well, your back? I can't do anything for you. Do you... We, we gotta check you out." And I said, "No, I gotta play, Doc. Just, just give me something." Shot a Toradol in my arm. I play... I had the best game of my life and, and, uh, like I said, couldn't walk 18 hours later. Um-
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, you look back on it, but, but... And I don't know if it was Jeff's life too, because if we stepped off the field, there was a younger, stronger, faster young buck ready to take-
You know
... take our job.
Yeah.
And, uh-
Your job's on the line not every day, but every play.
Every play.
That's... Your job is on the line every play. And that's the other thing that, je- there's so much pride within you too, and, you know, this is your livelihood. And so you're, you're gonna continue to try to keep your livelihood going as long as possible, especially if you love the game.
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Let's go back to Corey. Um, he started getting some tests. You started noticing some things weren't right. Um, and, uh, now, now this is interesting. Uh,
Bra- Brandy, you said Jeff really, uh, uh, took him till 2010 to admit, "Hey, okay, it's, it's, it's something going on. Help me. Help me, Brandy. Why aren't you helping me?" But Corey, kind of a, a different n-
tune, I think. No? Well, Cor- Corey tells me all the time, "Paul, you gotta get tested and make sure." Was that-
Now. Corey-
Was that-
Now. Corey is almost his own caretaker.
He's the one that gets ahold of the doctors. He's the one that's been doing all the research. I had a f- had a full-time job up until recently, and he was the one telling me, "You need to do this. They have a support group here. You have to do this. You have to do this."
Wait, really quick. Hold, hold that. But, but you say he, he's kinda his own caretaker?
Mm-hmm.
I've seen you talk him off the shelf, off the ledge. I've seen you at, at, at dusk say, "Corey, put your hand on my back and, and follow me."
It's because-
And walk across the grass.
It's because he doesn't remember what he needs to do when those environmental triggers come.
Mm-hmm.
Which he's getting better at now because we have less stress in our life and we l- we're living a more minimalistic life and a more quiet life than what we had
previous.
But I think what you were asking is how did I accept my neurological issues? It was a fight.
Mm-hmm.
Well, it was.
I didn't believe in depression.
Mm.
I still, I don't.
So-
Corey- Corey, let me ask you a question. Was, um, were you... I know with Jeff, um, I was the problem most of the time. It was... I was the reason that I was h-
I hear that part, yeah
... triggering his emotions. I was the reason-
No, not for me
... for this. I was the reason for that. I was gone too long. I was this, I was that, as he, as he neurologically started digressing more, and then the anger management and putting holes in walls and just flooding and, and then writing me the most beautiful letters after and telling me he doesn't understand what's going on, and he's so sorry that he, you know, he had an outburst like that. And then sometimes Travis and I would really just walk around on shells, especially when he couldn't emotionally take, take anything anymore. And so he would take more pills to try to sustain his pain, not only, but it wasn't just his physical pain anymore. It was his emotional pain. And he would get lost. He would, even 3,000 miles away when he was in California and I was here, he would call me. He's out somewhere. He's, he had lost. He, he started having blackouts. And one thing that you said that earlier, Corey, was about the falling. You see, I was attributing, until you just said that
the other day, too, we were talking, was the falling, I was attributing it to, um, too many drugs. But now I'm realizing, and I realized later, that some of that falling was, was happening because... And he would have blackouts, too. So, you know, hearing, hearing your story really helped me to just reiterate that these were all things that were based off of, uh, you had traumatic encephalopathy. He had ended, ended up with stage 3 CTE. But, um, I think the beautiful thing about what you're doing now is you're getting the therapy and the things that you're recognizing it a lot quicker than, you know, than, than Jeff did later.
It's all because of my wife. I mean, when we 1st started, it was a fight. It was,
"I can still work. I can still do this. I can still function.
I'm not the problem. My daughter's the problem."
"I'm a big, strong cowboy."
"I'm a big, strong cowboy. We buck up, shut up, and get up. Leave me alone."
How many times have I heard that? And I've only known you for a year.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, and it, and it-
And that's why-
And now he cries at commercials on TV.
Not no more. I'm on pills for that.
But it's,
it's a mentality, I think, of not just a cowboy, but as a competitor.
Right.
You know it, Paul. Brandy knows it from Jeff. It's-
As a man, too.
As a man that-
Well, and our-
... I'm supposed to control this household. I'm supposed to be the breadwinner.
Damn it, you're gonna listen to me, and I'm gonna be 1st.
Mm.
And if you don't like these rules, there's the door.
That's the Corey I married right there.
Yeah. And that's how-
That-
... Jeff ended up-
Seriously
... so many different times, so many different times.
And I mean, he...
The stories that I've heard from other wives and moms and everything that talk about their sons and their husbands with, you know, what they think is full-blown CTE and the rage issues
is that there's 95% of these stories I hear, they all say, like what Brandy was saying, they're the ones at fault, not the person with suspected CTE. They never take the blame. They always blame the spouse or the mom. You know, it's their issue, whatever. But with Corey, he's never done that to me.
When he has- ... when he has a rage issue, he can feel it coming on. He had one back in '08
where he came home from work, and normally he would run to the bathroom, take off his uniform, 'cause he drove truck and they had to wear uniforms. He'd be greasy and dirty. He'd run to the bathroom, take a shower, and then he'd come out and we'd have dinner and whatnot. He came home, sat in the chair in the dining room, and this vein in his forehead kept throbbing. And he was still in his uniform 2 hours later, and he was just beside himself. That's the
maddest I've ever seen him. And it doesn't matter what Bailey did as a teenager. You know, if Bailey went out and wrecked the car, I've never seen him as mad as I did that day. And then finally he looked at me and he goes,
"I think I need to go on happy pills."
This is a man that only took painkillers, you know, ibuprofen and Advil or whatever, you know, wasn't doing anything, had no mental issues, never complained of a headache, ever. And it was also the same year that we watched Concussion.
And the light went on, and we just kind of looked at each other and was like, "Oh,
okay." Hindsight's 20/20. You don't know what you don't know. So hindsight's 20/20, but from 2008 until 2022,
we didn't take steps
to make any of this really better.
We didn't know.
Exactly. So-
We didn't know. We didn't know
... if, if we would've started back in, let's say, 2014, started you on fish oils and, you know, omegas and diet and everything instead of going out and live- living our life like we were-
Things might be a little bit different today.
So, Brandi, you 2010, Jeff starts to realize, "Hey, yeah, it, it, it's neurological. Uh, you, you need to start helping me, Brandi." Um, talk about that, that, that s- uh, that series in, in your life.
I had, I had waited
3 years for him to say that, and
I, you know, he was major love of my life for 30 some years and, and, um, and always will be, and one of the most kind, wonderful men you would ever wanna meet. I wanna, I wanna clarify that. Um, but when you love somebody and you are seeing this type of emotional and physical changes going on, you're there for them, even when they slough you off. Uh, when he finally got vulnerable, um, he was also during that time having 3 DUIs. He had had blackouts. He had been on medevaced from Turlock one time for, uh, he had an accident, blacked out. He was on a ventilator. They medevaced him from Turlock to Modesto, and, um,
and that was pretty much the biggest aha moment for him. When he got off the ventilator, we started getting him off of all the medication that he was on and, and we, um, the doctor, the, uh, I tell you, the other, the other savior was the judge
that sent him to rehab.
But we couldn't find rehab anywhere in California because he was on Medicare.
Nobody would accept him. He, he found this little hole in the wall in Modesto that was gonna be like 6500 dollars a month, and he's already, he's already almost close to 80000 dollars in debt for lawyers for, for all of this other stuff. And, um, the next thing you know, I'm at an NFL, um, event, an NFL summit in Vegas, and I've got, uh, Mary Ann Fleming and Andrew, Andrew Colla- Collins talking about the new benefits stuff, and there were these doctors there from Utah,
Dr. Joel Hanson. And I stood up and said, "Well, where do we get all this help?" Because I told the story and after, after that s- uh, seminar workshop that afternoon, Dr. Hanson came up and said, "We wanna hear more about Jeff's story. We wanna help." And I was on my way down to, um, Turlock after to see my son. My son was living there then, and
I had lunch with them. I told them the story. They said, "We wanna help. We'll talk to Andre. Maybe Andre can pay, pick up the flight, but we'll send him there." So we got the judge to order him. We went to court in, in California and got the judge to send him there, and we got him off everything except for some, um, the new drug that they were coming out, you take a pill a day. But they put him in the hospital. They drained him out, got him clean, and, um, everything started turning around then except for the neurocognitive disease that was overtaking him. And then eventually, um, unfortunately, he,
he was declining. He knew it, and, um,
you know, eventually he passed in the end of 2012. But he was, he was,
he was back on track, getting off all of those drugs. He was, was he still sustaining pain? Yes. But he was sustaining it in a different way. I think as anyone knows, any, any addiction to drugs, the mind reverses and creates pain that you need more, the addictive side. You need more, you need more. So, um, I'm so blessed that we got back together and when he passed, uh, we were 2 months from getting remarried, and we had love, joy, and peace within our family, and that was the blessing of it all. And, and I still continue to work with other players.
Hmm. Um, Susan.
Yes, sir.
You guys have a daughter to- together.
We have a daughter, yes.
And, uh, I guess I, I, I was very, very fortunate enough to, um, attend her wedding this summer, right?
May 8th.
May 8th.
Yep.
My birthday's May 6th. I should've remembered that.
You should've re- next year, you'll remember it.
Uh, let me... How old is she? She's 28 or-
31.
She's 31. Uh, how,
how were... I mean, so Corey has been
in this neurodegenerative
decline or status for quite-
Her whole life.
Her, her whole life?
Yeah, pretty much.
How does, how does she-
Yeah.
How, how do you maneuver or man- manage that relationship? I mean, how did she manage that relationship?
Get tissues ready.
Well, she's, you know, obviously she's got, you know, her own issues and whatnot, and she's building a life with Andrew. Um,
she had seen my mom decline severely fast with dementia,
and my daughter wears her heart on her sleeve, and she has a really, really hard time dealing with what Corey's going through.
She doesn't-
She doesn't under- is, is that because she doesn't understand it or-
No, she understands. She understands.
She follows our Facebook page.
Yeah. She-
Oh, does she?
She's super smart. She understands, but I think...
And it's not her being selfish. I think just at this point of her life...
Sorry. This point of her life, she,
she wants to build her life.
So she's protecting her-
She doesn't, she doesn't want... She's protecting her heart is what she's doing. She doesn't wanna have to worry about her dad right now.
Hmm.
But
I bet that if I called her up tomorrow and said,
"Dad woke up this morning and I don't think he's gonna be here past next Friday. You need to come home," she'd come right home.
Right.
Yeah.
But as of right now, she's young, she's building her family-
Mm-hmm
... and that's what she's doing.
And our relationship growing up,
I had to have the sit-down hard conversation with her in 2024
when I found all this out and after I came back from San Antonio,
and I had to apologize to my daughter.
So you had the cognitive whereabouts to understand the TES diagnosis?
Once I got it.
Right.
Once everything happened, it kind of, everything kinda hit in to where it was,
"Okay, Bailey,
you know, some of the stuff I did growing up
wasn't me.
It was me, but it wasn't me."
Hmm.
"You know, I love you. I always will. You're my daughter. You're daddy's little girl. You'll
be there until the day I die.
But some of the yelling, the mad like you talked about with Vella, with your veins popping out and you're gonna listen to me," and, you know, I did that with Bailey.
Yeah.
I'm very-
Yep
... thankful I was not raised...
And I was raised in some abusive homes,
but I wasn't raised by people that were abusers.
You know, my mom being who she was and some of the people she married abused her. But because of my grandparents, my father, my uncle- ... and everybo- and everybody around me,
I was raised that you do not raise a hand to a woman. If she hauls off and decks you in the nose, you just turn around and walk away.
Yeah.
And so I'm very thankful I had that moral that encompassed in me that
I was never abusive to my daughter physically or my wife. Mentally, yes.
Physically, no. Mentally, it was, I was
literally, "This is what's gonna happen."
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I have to say, with, with Travis,
it was very difficult when he went out to live with his dad for a couple of years in California, and his dad was completely deteriorating. It was very hard for him. And
not knowing, he had lost a little respect for his dad. He came back.
When I 1st told him we were getting back together, he just looked at me like...
And, you know, I loved him. And so then he s- you know, we all came around, but we weren't expecting him to pass either. And he had guilt. He had so much guilt after Jeff died and
realized that
he had suppressed so much guilt and pain inside of him. And then he, he, he couldn't feel for a number of years until the daugh- his daughter was born in 2016, like 4 years. He, he, he had his wall up. And I understand
what walls are. I think we all put our survivor mode on at times. But he had a lot of guilt after that because he, you know, in his mind, if he had known, if we had all known, that he could've understood it better. He could've
done better with it. But it... You know, the kids, we have to really remember about the kids because the kids are video recorders with legs, and they see everything that we don't even want them to think about seeing. And so, Corey, I'm so proud that you, you did that. Um, you know, Travis knew that Jeff was deteriorating. Travis knew that he had physical injuries. Um, we just... I don't think he really understood that his dad had neurocognitive problems until it was, until Jeff was gone.
Hmm.
And,
you know, Paula, I wanna do something different.
Me and you are gonna sit back away from the mic,
'cause this is getting deep.
I want Brandy and Susan to take the next 10 or 15 minutes and have a conversation on what actually it's like being a caregiver and dealing with these issues. Because
you're by yourself now.
Well, you got your parents, but they're 91. You got your brothers, but they're in New Hampshire.
You know, I have my wife.
I want them 2 to hold the conversation. And Brandy, I'll let you start the conversation because my wife didn't know this was coming.
I want you 2 to take the next 10 or 15 minutes and have a conversation of what the harsh reality of this is, if you don't mind.
I'm pretty sure that Brandy saw that when we were in Tampa, 'cause it was a tear fest when we were in Tampa.
No.
So I know what-
Yeah
... the harsh reality is,
and it's pushed down.
Yeah.
But I know it because the 1st day at that Tampa summit, I couldn't handle it. As soon as Karen went up there and was started speaking, and she put that video up on the screen, and it was everybody that lost somebody. And here I am with my husband who's still alive, sitting
right there with me at the summit when he couldn't even fly, fly in a plane because of what he goes through. The whole weekend was so profound. That's exactly what it was,
was a big old tear fest.
That's why-
Yes
... Brandy, that's why Brandy came over and hugged on me after you had pointed me out in the crowd. 'Cause other than that, she would've just saw me as somebody crying all the time.
Uh, you know, I think these type of events,
for years, we weren't allowed to talk about it.
It's taboo.
We, we held it in behind closed doors. That's what we did. Because again, like I said earlier, we just wanted our men to walk out that front door and have some sort of honor and dignity. You're gonna make me cry, Susan-
... uh, in our community, because that's who we are. We love our men, and we... It hurts.
It hurts to watch them deteriorate or to have a bad day. But then when they have the good days, I mean, it take... That all went away again.
I have a ball.
And so, but, but what it's like to be a caretaker is also to be on a constant rollercoaster ride.
And, you know, are you gonna be in for the long haul? A lot of the players that I've dealt with, too,
pre-93ers or current, former players, um,
once there's an injury, once there's a, a problem, a lot of these women, what were you there for? Were you really there because you love that man? Are you there for the long haul? And the one thing I wanted Jeff to know is that no matter what, I was gonna be there for the long haul. I... There was a time where we had to separate that, um, emotionally I was physically and emotionally drained to a point of no return. And, but once we regrouped,
I knew
how much I worried about him every day, was on the phone with him every... You know, I mean, um, I taught him how to text. I bought him a pho- a phone. You know, he didn't wanna get on a computer or anything else. And so, um, those kind of things, that's the most, the hardest part. When he 1st left football, we didn't have cell phones and so I had to work.
And Susan probably understands that too, you know? And you're, you're not home, and then you worry, right? Are you finding him on the floor? Or, you know, it's like, um, you know, living in and out of an emergency room. I understand what that is too. And I... And, uh, uh, and then, you know, he had over 100 surgeries too between all of that, which I wouldn't wish on anybody. But, um, it, it is a rollercoaster ride. And are you in for the long haul? You love somebody and, you know,
we don't want you to feel bad. We're here for you. That's the most other thing.
Um, we're here for you because we wanna be here for you. All right? Not because we have to. We want to be here for you because we love you. And, um, and we'll do whatever it takes. And, you know, if you're having a bad day, you know, we'll be there for you. If we're having a bad day, be there for us, 'cause some days we have bad days. And some days we get in the car and scream,
drive around the block a few times.
There is, there is no I in team, huh, honey?
Actually, there is, in a capital A.
Yeah, but you don't spell team that way.
But I do understand, I do understand what she's saying because I hear so many stories about
how bad... This is coming from the wife's perspective of how bad their husbands are and how
abusive they are with their rage issues and everything. And these,
these women give up.
They don't have the hope in them. They don't have the faith in them that they can be there for their husband as they're going through this. And it's constantly, "I wanna leave him. He's a jerk." You know, I hear this all the time. I read stories about it.
What pops into my head is,
what happened to your vows?
Trophy wives. And I hate to be mean.
To death do you part. But
in sickness-
It's a lot of verbal abuse, though, that comes from flooding, from anger. So we do... I did with Jeff, I took a lot of verbal abuse, a lot of verbal abuse.
And I don't-
And-
... I don't get, Cory, I don't get that from you
... it's hard, but-
Mm-hmm.
I don't get that from you.
Yeah. Thank God.
I mean, he's not em- you know, he has no empathy,
which is, you know...
I mean, he's,
he's a cocky cowboy, so he's not gonna have empathy for anybody. But it's just the way that he, that he was raised.
Well, and you mentioned something, Brandy, about walking on eggshells.
Oh, yeah.
Do you know how many times my wife has yelled at me, "I'm tired of walking on eggshells around you. I've been doing it for 27 years."
I've-
Yep
... I have said it for 27
years. And you kinda, you know, it,
it... You pick your battles, you know? You gotta watch what you say before you say it, which you have no control of whatsoever.
Yeah.
You may have-
Yeah
... control of it now, but you don't, to a certain extent, but you've never had control of what you say before it comes flying out of your mouth. And it doesn't matter who it is. It could be the president, and you'd probably still say the wrong thing to him.
It's just learning to be submissive and be quiet and know that... I think the one thing I learned with Jeff over the years is when he got that way, that the best thing I can do is be quiet. Do not be argumentative. Do not yell back at him. Uh, let him get through this in his own way. Uh, even if he's yelling at me, that I'm, as I'm, you know, I'm going to the grocery store now. I'm going, uh, to walk the dog now. I'm going, um, in my office. I've got some work to do. You know, uh, just trying to let it ride out and, you know, hope he doesn't break something, so.
Well, and in the last 3 years since Cory's car accident
and the stress that we have gone through, I have, I have become more snarky to his comments, and I have started arguments that I probably shouldn't have started. And I am trying to catch myself to bring myself back to where I was 3 years ago before this happened and not get so upset at a drop of a hat over something ridiculous that he's done. So it... We're all a work in progress.
Mm-hmm.
And hindsight's 20/20.
I think, you know... Yeah.
I, I think any kind of marriage is always a work in progress.
It doesn't matter. I, you know, I'm so blessed that I've been able to work with other families and players and, and, um, and I've, I've learned so much, too, from, like, what Susan was saying when she's talking to other families and wives. I think that's really vital. Um,
nobody wants to feel that they're alone in any of this, and support groups are so vital for us.
Um,
and for the... I think the one thing that misses a lot is the camaraderie that the men need. They need, they need each other. I'm so blessed that Paul and, and Cory have each other, and I'm sure they have other buds that come together. But that's really vital, you know, because as you, as you start deteriorating a little bit more... I know Jeff wanted... just became a recluse. And, um, with all of our functions, they... That was the one thing that bothered me the most, is that he would just like to go into a room and never come out. And, um, and then he had a horrible time sleeping. I think that was the other adjustment I had to make over the years, because he could get 3, 4 hours sleep at night, where I had to get up, get Travis off to school, get to work, come back, you know, do most of the work, uh, during the day. Um,
you know, I tried to keep him busy. One thing that he did was journal. He started journaling. And, and what we try to do with a lot of the players and now, and, um, other people having any type of a neurocognitive problem is to, you know, figure out what were some of your other passions? What were your, some of your other gifts? And was it writing? Uh, do you love music? Do you play an instrument? Could you just, you know, put on, put on the, the boombox and just listen and, and do things? Are you exercising? Are you, are you getting these endorphins that really need to kick back in? What are some of the things that we can help you do to get you excited again?
Good luck.
We... Good luck.
Well, because I don't know. Without rodeo... I mean, when I left rodeo, my... I became a very angry person.
You needed something to let the adrenaline out.
Yeah.
And so I became a race car driver on dirt trucks.
Until I got, until I got concussions. And then I played softball until I got a concussion. Then I played turkey football until I got a concussion.
But
it's-
I gotta say something about the support groups. Me and Paul are on the Concussion Legacy Foundation Suspected CTE Support Group.
It is very awesome on some of the relationships I've built with the guys on there that messaged each other phone numbers and contact info, and we reach out.
And I think you're right. We need... I think it works when there's other people we can talk to. And in our support groups, when I talk about suicide ideation or anger, I know that they go through it. So when I talk about it, I know I'm not gonna shock the hell out of them.
The only problem I see with, and I've never listened to one of her support groups,
and I never will,
but the way I look at it is, the problem with professional athletes and wives is you got some that are married for love and some that are married for money.
You got the trophy wives, and then you got the wives.
But
the wives that are in the support groups
are there for love, or they wouldn't be in that support group.
Yep.
Whether they wanna walk out the door or not, they're still there for love, but they have this attitude and this thought in the back of their mind of, "My life could be so much better if I was not here. I need to get out. I need..." Even after 30, 40 years of marriage, some of these women just want out. They're tired.
This episode of the Head Rush podcast is brought to you by the Patrick Risha CTE Awareness Foundation. Their goal is the, to spread awareness about the dangers of RHI, repetitive head impacts, after losing their son, Patrick, to CTE. Sadly, there are too many like Patrick that have lost their families, jobs, and sometimes their lives. And this foundation is working hard to stop the devastation than, that can come from not protecting the brain. This foundation provides parents of school-aged children with information about the dangers of sports, concussive sports, and activities which involve head trauma.
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stop C-
Good. There you go
... stopcte.org. And I think a lot of that is, that's where the support group is great for the caregivers, because it gives you guys a voice to let out your anger, to let out your frustrations that, "This guy's driving me flipping crazy. He's doing this. God,
why did he-"
But they only give us, they only give us an hour to talk, and if you've got 25 women in there... I did it again. 25 women in there-
Yeah
... you know, you can't get everybody's story out because you spend the 1st half an hour introducing yourself.
Well, I did that with Tyler on Concussion Legacy Foundation. There was like 20 some odd people on, and I'm like, "Dude, I'm not gonna come back until it gets smaller because this, this ain't gonna work for me."
Yeah.
We've...
Run out of time.
Well, I, I-
But we got one.
We- we're, really, really quick.
Brandy, can you do this, can you do this in 90 seconds? Can you do a walk through the Congressional hearings and what you did then, and, and then I'll-
Yeah
... uh, ano- another 45 seconds for what you do now with the players and so on and so forth?
Okay.
Putting you on the spot.
So in 2 thou- in 2007, I went to the Congressional hearings. Uh, the Dickha press conference 1st, and then the Congressional hearings. We were all blown away. Um, the things that came out in the 1st group of Congressional hearings in 2007 was the catalyst to build for the 2009 Congressional hearings. I was blown away by all the people, as I said before, that had always completely
thought they were alone like we were, and we put our support group together. At the hearings, um,
they tore into the NFL like you would never have imagined. It was, uh, Brent Bulwood. We had a sign there that said, "Delay, deny, and hope you die."
And that was the 1st time that I, as a support person, was asked to do an interview with HBO. And then we continued our support group and working with other players and families, and that's been, uh, something that I continue to do now.
Susan?
Yes, Paul?
We always end-
Polly, Polly Ox.
We always end our episodes with a word of hope for our-
... audience.
Why'd you pick me?
Well, Brandy's gonna do it too, but you're 1st.
Okay. Well,
mine isn't a word of hope, but
it is a poem.
I did not write this.
"When the arena goes quiet.
He used to ride like thunder, hands clutched on leather and sky.
Each eight in- 8 seconds..." I may tear up and break down on this one. "8 seconds a lifetime, each cheer another r- reason why.
Now the crowd's gone quiet, the dust has long settled down, but the echoes still rattle the rafters and sometimes his mind when no one's around. I watch the man I love drift, caught between memory and mist,
searching faces he should know, gripping time that doesn't exist.
He flinches at shadows I can't see, forgets the words we built a life on,
and I hold him like a fence post, steady, splintered, but strong.
Some nights I miss the cowboy more than I can say. The laugh, the swagger, the dust on his boots after a long day.
But love doesn't end at the whistle, it stays when the lights go dim and when the brain, brain bre- betrays the body and the body betrays him.
So ride the storm beside him, no buckle, no glory, no fame, just a vow whis- whispered in silence, 'I'll remember us,' when he can't say my name."
Oh.
Wow.
Why did you do that to us?
Welcome to my wife's world.
All right.
We're supposed to end on a good note, a happy note.
Brandy-
That is a happy note.
Brandy, you ready then?
I mean, I'm gonna-
Well, standing beside.
I, I, I came up with a slogan a long time ago. It says, you know, "It's through our past that we gain our future." We can't live in the past. We can move forward to the future, and the future is today. And our future is what gives us hope, not our past. So we have to move forward to the future so that, um,
we will never give up. We will always keep fighting. We will always be survivors, and we will be there for our family and our friends and our men.
Definitely.
Brandy is the author of The Flip Side of Glory and Unbreakable Strength. These are great reads. I read them in the last 10 days and, uh, had to be prepared to talk to Brandy. And I enjoyed the heck out of it, and you need to read these, uh, these stories.
Is it... the third one, you're gonna... you're... are you gonna write...
this w- this was written before-
I'm gonna be writing The Flip Side of Glory, the final chapter, which will pick up from that Flip Side of Glory, uh, through 2020 because I want to include all of the things that have happened, uh, with the NFL, with the concussion settlement, with the concussion crisis, and, um, update people more on, uh, Concussion Legacy Foundation as well.
Great.
And I wanna bring this up. What she just said about her quote,
"This story is dedicated to all the young teens who are fighting to find their way home."
So we're not just talking about pro athletes here. We're talking about teens, everybody finding their way home. Right underneath that, it says, "It's through our past that we gain our future.
Never give up. God has magnific- magnifi-
Magnificent
... plan for your life. Follow your passions, and you will succeed in anything."
So go and get Brandy's book,
Unbreakable Strength.
Let's make this a Pulitzer Prize winner , number one on the reader's book.
Um, I would like to see something like that happen for RHI World.
Um,
and I just wanna thank you, Brandy, for coming on. It's tremendous as ever. Once I met you in Tampa, it was like...
There's very few women I know that get, gets it. Unfortunately,
all the women I knew or know that gets it are because they lost loved ones because of it.
My wife gets it because she's dealing with it, but my wife is educating herself and doing, and doing what she can to better her and my life because I don't always know what tomorrow's gonna bring me. I, I am becoming an isolator, a recluse. I don't wanna be around people.
People make me mad.
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You say the wrong thing. It's like the other day, we were at the gas station-
And a guy drove around the corner... Well, not the other day, a while back ago. Guy went around the gas pumps and yelled at my wife and our friend, who's a 63-year-old lady-
She's 72.
I'm gonna be nice.
And it's... He yelled at 'em, "Move your GD car."
I didn't even know it. I was gone.
I was after him. I don't even remember being that mad to take off and think, "You know, I'm gonna go beat..." I was just after it. If it wasn't for my wife grabbing my belt, saying, "Eh, eh, eh, eh, don't do this," I probably would've been in Tarrant County.
Hmm.
You know? So,
athletes,
they say a man-
It's really education, education, education, education-
Awareness
... education, education.
Education.
Awareness.
And it does not make you a wuss
to talk about what's hiding in the shadows.
Yeah. Well, this is, this is why we do this, uh, podcast. Um, we want to bring awareness to the dangers of repeated head impacts, uh, the dangers of, uh, that, you know, uh, uh, at the Bruce, uh, Mac Parkman, um, Summit, uh-
International.
International Summit for, uh, Repeated Head Impacts, we were talking about these young kids that strap on helmets at 7 years old. And I think we're all in the, we're all in the camp of there's no r- need for any of these peewee football players to tackle, to play tackle.
Peewee contact.
No, they don't need tackle football.
It- well-
So-
... it's not even, it's not even just football.
Well-
I mean, it's-
... concussive sports, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, and then, and then, of course, this podcast was dealing with, uh, 2 seasoned veterans of caregivers that you ha- you, you've experienced it for 27 years. Brandy, you've es- experienced it, uh, for almost 3 ge- more than 3 decades, I guess. Um-
Yeah, about 34 years.
Yeah.
Yeah.
30, yeah. So, so these are, these are 2 people. These are 2 experts. Um, if you don't know , quite frankly, there's a lot of symptomology that comes with, um,
possible CTE that people do not understand unless they're well-versed in it. You, uh, w- when, when your loved one perhaps, uh, starts raging and you don't know why, you've gotta, you've gotta listen to, uh, this. You gotta bring yourself up to speed and listen to the awareness that we're bringing you, because it could be that they suffered from repeated head impacts. We don't know. Um,
but, uh, there, there is, there is a reason, there is hope, and, uh, that's what we try to do too. You know, at, at the summit, the International Summit, we had a lot of doctors and a lot of... They, they were talking about... Mark Gordon was talking about inflammation. I'm in his camp. I love his camp because it makes a lot of sense to me, the quiet explosions camp.
Right.
And, um-
I'm in it.
Yeah. You're, you're in it. We're both in it. And, uh, and, uh, and there's, there was other doctors there for, you know... We're, uh, talking with, uh, uh, the, the, uh, Jonathan Dickinson fr- and Trevor M- Millar from, uh, um, ambient.
Right.
Yeah. They, they do ibogaine, so there's a lot of research on psychedelics and neuroplasticity and so on and so forth. So, we're looking for answers, um, and, uh, uh, becoming knowledgeable. One, one, one thing you said, you were talking about, um, Brandy, I, I,
I, I lost a, a friend of mine at 49 years old. I played, uh, football with him at the Jets, and, um, hi- the last 10 years of his life, he was acting the fool.
And his son kicked him out of the house,
and he was living in a trailer in the woods by himself, doing things he had never done before.
And
neither his son,
the wife, or himself, he himself knew about CTE or knew about the dangers of repeated head impacts. Now,
I literally...
I don't know if he... I think he died of a heart attack. I'm not sure. And, and I...
But
6 months after that, I was on the phone with his wife and her 2 kids, and they were driving to the 3rd kid's football game.
And the wife was saying,
you know, "Paul, could it have been this?
We, we are so, we're so ashamed, you know. If it, if it was, we're so ashamed that we kicked him out of the house and he..." You know, and I said, "Look." I said, "You didn't know, and he didn't know either."
Right.
And if it was not organic to the point where he could make the decision and actually use his brain, if he knew what he was dealing with, he might have made better choices, or at least... And, and if you knew as a spouse or a caregiver, and if you knew as a son or a daughter what was going on, you would have been able to... You would have gotten some tools to be able to deal with that in a, in a different way, in a different level. And, and the last 10 years of his life might not have been the last 10 years of his life, and it might have been a lot different.
So the awareness is so important
and, um, thank you guys for helping us bring awareness to this. I mean, I think-
Thank you so much for having me on today too. I'm very honored to be on. And any time you want me to come back, let me know. I'll be there.
Awesome. We have... Yeah, you guy- you-
Now, my wife is looking at me and saying, "Don't make me say that."
No, no, no. They're, they're gonna say, "What's, when does your-"
Susan, I'm sending big hugs.
Well, you-
Big, big hugs to Susan.
I see you 2 taking our, our spot, uh, uh, uh, next month and, and Corey and I will be out fishing or something. You guys can do the podcast, so...
No.
Might ruin your persona.
No. Well,
thank you. Um, uh, uh, we, we should've done this a little earlier. We're, we're gonna do the plug of, uh, sub- subscribe, like, share, um, help us bring awareness to this debilitating, debilitating disease. And, um...
Like I said, it's no longer about CTE
because I don't wanna die.
No.
It's all about repeated head impacts.
Repeated head impacts.
You know, I was talking to Chris Nowinski-
Doctor
... a long time ago.
Oh.
Dr. Chris Nowinski.
And I says, "You know, I think a person could have 10 concussions
and not get CTE
if he allowed each one of them to fully recover."
You know what he said?
Take a wild guess.
Could be right.
Right.
Yep.
Yeah, but
you don't know what you don't know.
You don't know what you don't know.
Yeah.
But now I'll tell you one thing, it took me
a day or 2 to recover from my 1st concussion.
My last TBI took me 3 months.
Yeah.
And you're going on how long for this one?
3 years.
3 years. Amazon people,
awareness.
Amazon, Kindle, yep, .com.
Thank you. I'll take those home.
Amazon, Kindle, Barnesandnoble.com.
You took my book.
Or, uh, brandiwynants.com website, you can, you can link directly to Amazon from there. And if you want an autographed copy, there's a, a text you can send me and I'll make sure I send one autographed.
Great. Thank you, Brandi. Thank you, Susan.
Thank you so much, Brandi. And honey, I know you hate being on this thing. It's taken a year to get you here and I know it'll be another year before I can get you back on,
but thank you.
You're very welcome.
And appreciate it. And I sure hope our fans appreciate what they got to hear today because you're talking about 2 very strong women.
Amen.
And without strong women, you don't have strong men.
Mm.
That's great. Good way to end. Awesome.
So-
Thank you.
Thank you.
Guys.
.
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