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In this engaging episode, we explore the art of effective communication with Alex Perry, a seasoned communication expert and solopreneur. Alex brings her passion for communication to the forefront, offering listeners practical strategies to enhance their interactions with leadership teams. She emphasizes the importance of understanding both professional priorities and personal motivators, ensuring that communication is tailored to resonate with each leader’s unique perspective.
Alex shares the "What, Why, Impact" model, a powerful framework for structuring conversations that foster clarity and empathy. She also discusses the common pitfalls of role-based communication, illustrated with real-world examples like Target's failed expansion into Canada, underscoring the critical need for alignment between IT and leadership.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to refine their communication skills, especially when navigating the complex dynamics of leadership. Whether you're a tech leader, manager, or aspiring communicator, Alex's insights will help you craft messages that not only inform but also inspire action.
Creators & Guests
What is IT Leaders?
The purpose of the IT Leaders Council is to bring together IT Directors and Managers for leadership training, educational content from guest speakers, and peer discussions in a vendor-free, collaborative environment. IT Leaders Councils are currently offered in Indianapolis, IN and Columbus, OH, with more cities coming soon!
00:00:00:09 - 00:00:19:11
Alex Perry
No pressure with a lead and like, oh, she's one of the few people who's been able to do this twice. I'm like, okay, we'll see how this goes. I'm excited to be with all of you today while he does this. I just want to set up some expectations of what the next half an hour is going to look like.
00:00:19:12 - 00:00:38:22
Alex Perry
So, obviously, my heart and soul is around communication. So I'm going to ask you to do a little bit of talking with me, because I would rather talk with you than at you. Is that cool? Awesome. Another, thing I would like to say is that if you need to take a phone call or get up, go to the bathroom, do whatever.
00:00:38:23 - 00:01:00:12
Alex Perry
Please go do that. I do have a little bit of stage fright and anxiety. And so if I see you scrolling on your phone typing things, you know what I'm going to think I'll be like, oh, shit. So boring. So if you need to do that, please do. I know that we are all working. It is 8:00 or 845 in the morning, and you've got stuff to do.
00:01:00:16 - 00:01:18:10
Alex Perry
If you would just slide right on out of the room to do that for me. I would also like your permission to do something, towards the end. So I am a solopreneur. I run my own consulting firm. So if you don't mind, I would like to share with you how you might be able to access my services.
00:01:18:10 - 00:01:38:08
Alex Perry
Can I have your permission to do like a two minute commercial at, like, before we end? Is that cool? All right. So I'm going to do a two minute. I'll try to keep it at two minutes. And if there's somebody that's like or really good timekeeper, you can be like, hey, I'll respond to that cue. Just let me know.
00:01:38:10 - 00:02:02:11
Alex Perry
So I'd like to do that. And then otherwise my intent for today is that you walk away thinking just a little bit differently about communication, and hopefully with a strategy that you have either learned before or is new to you, that you can walk away and practically, apply immediately. Does that sound good? Does that sound reasonable? Awesome.
00:02:02:13 - 00:02:23:08
Alex Perry
All right. Actually, can I get a louder response? I'm going to do that. Speaking for. Thank you. There's something about physically, something about hearing voices in a room that you're like, okay, like, now we've gotten somewhere. We've gotten something in that that it's very helpful, at least to me. It may not be to you as a speaker, but it's definitely helpful to me.
00:02:23:10 - 00:02:45:00
Alex Perry
So here's the next piece. I have this question for you that I would like for you to take the next, I don't know, 2 or 3 minutes and talk about at your tables. Now, you know, what's coming after that is that I'm going to ask a few tables to share out with me. What are some of your, typical challenges?
00:02:45:00 - 00:03:12:05
Alex Perry
Are some of your strategies around communication. So be prepared. Y'all can talk about it. If there's someone at the table that's like, yes, it's me. I'm the one that likes to talk. Vote that person in. If you know that you are the person that you do not want to share out loud, then you know, make sure you let your table know that if you are not part of the table, I recommend that you find her and some new friends get involved and otherwise, I want you to take the next two minutes and answer these questions.
00:03:12:09 - 00:03:19:12
Alex Perry
Are you ready? Let's. Okay, you guys do that after five.
00:03:19:14 - 00:03:43:21
Alex Perry
I might ask, well, is that the same thing with the city and. All right. It's not the same. What? So they're not going to be putting it down for you. They are not. No, no, dad was like I got time. I appreciate that. I appreciate my time keepers. Okay. I am curious. I need a couple. Right.
00:03:43:22 - 00:04:05:01
Alex Perry
Raise hands. Who wants to share? Right here. Tell me your name. The one. It's the one. All right. One. Do stand up or goes. Yeah, you can say that. Oh, you don't have to. But if it makes you feel better, I'm good. So feel better. No. What makes you feel autistic? Okay. Fair enough. So we have a little bit of a different dynamic.
00:04:05:01 - 00:04:27:01
Alex Perry
We really didn't have the time to go through everybody at the table. Okay, but, Terrence Harris, the presenter, really gave a good representation of this company because the small. Yeah. And so this dynamic, though, he thought it wasn't it really was because he has the ability to be able to go in and talk to a number of these executives and just have to sit through a conversation.
00:04:27:02 - 00:04:50:01
Alex Perry
We were starting to get to some of the larger organizations about some longevity, being with the company, maybe working your way up with some of these people and being able to determine their identities or metabolites, because the way you communicate with all the executives won't be the same. You will have to tailor your presentation to each executive, pick up the content, and then somebody said, stop.
00:04:50:01 - 00:05:12:16
Alex Perry
So that's sort of by somebody. He meant us. That's not, right. Okay, so I love this. In some organizations, we have the privilege of being able to walk up to somebody to say hi, to build a relationship and approach it that way. And then if we're in a larger organization, they may not be the case.
00:05:12:16 - 00:05:34:01
Alex Perry
We may be going up to. Right? It might be our VP level person. It might be not even at that level, but we're going to the people around them and getting to know our executives through those other people so we can be tailoring a presentation that's really good. And I would add one more quick thing now that if you don't have a relationship there, admin assistant is a great source because they can really help.
00:05:34:01 - 00:05:55:15
Alex Perry
Oh sorry, I thought I left over here. No, no, you weren't misreading my face. I'm like, oh please keep preaching. I don't have a database. I was like, hey, would you like to do this presentation? No, I love that. No, that is my face of yes, you. Yes. By all means, get to know the people that know those people the best.
00:05:55:17 - 00:06:26:06
Alex Perry
So knowing the gatekeepers, if you still call it gatekeeping, I don't do they still call it that? Administrative assistants, people that know them is a great way. Who's got a challenge that they're willing to share right here? Say, what's your name? Isaac. I'm the global geek. So we kind of talked briefly about some challenges that we might face, regarding, you know, having kind of like a mess for thinking, we just implemented Culture Index, so we did, like, kind of like a personality kind of help.
00:06:26:06 - 00:06:59:23
Alex Perry
Right person. Right. See, kind of, you know, tests and everything. And what we found is that literally all of our directors, all of our executives, all have, you know, the forward thinking, like thinking in the future past tense or, in the future sets big picture, whereas I'm completely the opposite. I am very in the present. And now, you know, like to have you step by step, you know, kind of how do we get to set goals that are, you know, established and everything and, I know that we kind of like, agree that sometimes that, you know, dealing with executives that have that, you know, big picture thinking and kind of breaking
00:06:59:23 - 00:07:22:23
Alex Perry
it down into those little tiny, like, bite sized chunks can potentially be a challenge. In some aspects for sure. How do I communicate with someone who is a forward thinker when I am a present moment thinker? They are 18 steps ahead and I'm like, whoa, slow down. We don't have a budget yet at once, but in that time, that's how this is what our plan is for.
00:07:22:23 - 00:07:46:13
Alex Perry
Like we're going to be here in five years. I'm like, okay, let's break it down year by year, and then we'll kind of work on that. Slow down, slow down. All right, one more challenge. Who's got one more challenge? Right back here. What's your name? Teresa. Teresa I yeah. So people that, they're there and you're talking to them and they're listening, but they don't really hear.
00:07:46:15 - 00:08:15:23
Alex Perry
And so wanting made wanting to make sure that we get the hook in there so that they understand and summarize what we really need them to hear and understand. Right. So they are listening while actually they are hearing. Hearing but not necessary, only listening. And sometimes we can tell that if we know our leadership really well, we can tell that like the behind the eyes look right, like, are you really with me?
00:08:16:01 - 00:08:37:13
Alex Perry
They may even be distracted. They may be doing something else. Okay, well, hopefully today you'll take away some things that will help you with, the communications or if not, help you help someone else, because you do have the opportunity to take what you learned today and teach it to someone else, which I think is the real power in the learning.
00:08:37:15 - 00:09:11:15
Alex Perry
So, the purpose of today is that I'm going to talk about one common trap that many of us fall into when we are communicating with leadership. All right. So sorry I got. What? Kathy. So I want you to imagine for a second that you're an architect. Can you imagine being an architect for a second? Right. So you're an architect and you are really, really excited about that design of your building, right?
00:09:11:15 - 00:09:36:12
Alex Perry
You know, the intricacies of it, you know, or how carefully you've laid out the plans, and then you're talking with an investor. And the investor is thinking about, oh my gosh, what is this going to do in terms of tenants? How am I going to see the return on my investment? What is this going to do for my portfolio?
00:09:36:12 - 00:09:59:03
Alex Perry
How much money are we going to bring in? So two totally different priorities in terms of communication. Does this all sound familiar? Y'all familiar with this right. So what's the trap here? The trap. When we're in these communications, one of the traps that we can fall into is focusing solely on role based communication. So y'all, can you play this example with me?
00:09:59:03 - 00:10:25:18
Alex Perry
If I say CFO, what do CFOs care about money? CFOs care about money. What does a CEO CEO care about? Efficiencies, operations? What does the CEO care about? If, say, everything? It's like all the things somebody said sales, sales is one of those things. And yes, that's true, but there's so much more. And we've already brought that out into the room.
00:10:25:20 - 00:10:54:12
Alex Perry
So you can think of it a great example is to think of it as a doctor. So if you are thinking about how, if an athlete goes in to visit the doctor, the doctor can very easily assume that the athlete is concerned about their injury impacting their physical performance. Right? That might be a natural assumption that we make, but you maybe make that assumption, right?
00:10:54:14 - 00:11:27:21
Alex Perry
Right. Athlete they've got their foot is broken. This is really important to the the physician creates a plan says we're going to get this foot fixed so we can get you back on the road. But then what did the physician miss? If the physician is not careful and doesn't think through communicating with this athlete, thinking about them more than just write one component, just that foot, that's keeping them from running that physician misses a critical aspect with this athlete is worried about their mental health.
00:11:27:23 - 00:11:54:04
Alex Perry
So they create a plan that addresses the foot, which is fabulous. But that's not at all what the athlete cares about. The athletes like, how am I going to deal with the fact that I can't run for six months, and running is the thing that keeps me sane. So if we are not careful about how we communicate with each other, we can make these assumptions and we can have these misses happen all of the time.
00:11:54:06 - 00:12:19:09
Alex Perry
Let's take this into a real life example. All right. Does anybody, recognize this story? Can you tell what it is? What? It was? Target. It says I remember wanting to vomit. I don't know if any of you are familiar with this story, but target decided to launch into Canada. Anyone familiar with this target decides to launch into Canada.
00:12:19:11 - 00:12:53:07
Alex Perry
They had a very aggressive plan to open 133 stores in. This is considered to be an epic failure in terms of leadership versus I.T. So what happened? I.T was tasked with coming up with with implementing a new ERP system. Y'all know ERP system. I don't have to explain that acronym. Thank goodness. Right. So side tip always explain your acronyms because not everybody knows what they are.
00:12:53:09 - 00:13:30:13
Alex Perry
So they were tasked with doing this and they were multiple errors all along the way. First was data entry errors with this system. Data entry errors to the level, of implementing inventory in inches versus centimeters. Oh what did that do. Right. So that's that it interrupted supply chain. It made that stacks the shell the the that the shelves were not stocked.
00:13:30:15 - 00:13:56:07
Alex Perry
There were items missing. All right. Next thing that happened because of same issue that you were talking about. Let's go, let's go, let's go. Staff was not properly trained on the ERP system. What happens when a staff is not properly trained on the system? Usage. They don't use it. They use it wrong. They are falling apart. They're falling apart within the stores.
00:13:56:07 - 00:14:16:15
Alex Perry
Then you probably get that hold like this. Well this is a management issue, right? So they start to do that like we are talking about your business and not a positive way in front of customers like you. Yuck. That's terrible. Right. So they had that happen then they had misaligned expectations. Right. So we have a deadline. We have a deadline.
00:14:16:15 - 00:14:44:08
Alex Perry
We got to get it out. And I knew they knew that that deadline was not reasonable, rational or even implementable in a way. Now, I wasn't there for the conversations, but it sounds like it didn't get communicated clearly and we pushed ahead and went forward. Sound familiar? There were also risks that they didn't talk about. So ultimately, what happened?
00:14:44:09 - 00:15:14:11
Alex Perry
Target made it two years in Canada. They lost, $2 billion in sales, like $2 billion investment. And they ultimately had to close. Consider here at one of the biggest and saddest, because who doesn't love target signs? Things like this is sad. And it all breaks down to what? What was the biggest issue me saying in cinemas?
00:15:14:13 - 00:15:23:16
Alex Perry
So can I say, are you at the risk of an inappropriate job? How American was?
00:15:23:18 - 00:15:45:07
Alex Perry
I seriously hate that. Like those little details, right? That super duper matter. Like that kind of miscommunication that all boils down to communication. And so ultimately, if we had had the better conversations, maybe we could have prevented this. But the biggest loss was a loss lost trust between the two systems. Right. So we have leadership. We have it.
00:15:45:08 - 00:16:10:21
Alex Perry
And now nobody trusts anybody because the project faith in epic proportions. And I'm sure that you all can relate or I'm sure that many of you can relate to this. Can you all relate to this? It's a thing. So what are right like it's I see it's like you're on the ship right in the ship. You are literally in the middle of a storm, and you've got one team that is focused on the operations.
00:16:10:21 - 00:16:30:00
Alex Perry
We had to keep the ship, forgot to keep the ship flow, gotta keep the ship flow. And the other side of the team is like morale is down. People are scared. People are scared, people are scared. And if we don't talk with each other, we can sail that ship just as nicely as possible. But we're not all on the mission of staying alive or vice versa.
00:16:30:02 - 00:16:59:04
Alex Perry
Right? And it takes two. But I'm talking to you guys today, so I have to give you something to use. Right? It takes two. But we are responsible for our own communication and the pieces of it. So how do we avoid this trap of role based communication? How do we stop that? All right, so first and foremost is to understand their professional priorities.
00:16:59:06 - 00:17:32:03
Alex Perry
And this is more than just their role. This is do the research. Back to you. You just gave a great example of this. Do we know what matters to them. Do we know what's relevant to our leaders right now? What's keeping them up at night? So for example, if I'm talking with a CFO who's under the gun to cut costs, I want to be talking with them about how my solution is going to help them save money.
00:17:32:05 - 00:17:50:07
Alex Perry
What are their challenges? What are their goals, what are their recent focus areas and recent focus areas being highly important? Because if we're not in that current moment back to you. You're like, what are what are they thinking about? If they're thinking about five years down the road, it's our job to be thinking about, all right, we're here.
00:17:50:08 - 00:18:21:06
Alex Perry
I see that you're thinking five years down the road. Let me help you come back here and show you how this stuff is going to help us get to that point. So understanding and having those conversations to tap into personal motivators, which means getting to know them on a personal level. Now, let me not confuse this, because oftentimes when we start talking about personal level, people think, do I really need to know what your kids names are or how many dogs you have or right, all of that.
00:18:21:06 - 00:18:57:03
Alex Perry
I think it's great if you can know that. But more importantly, what is driving them, what drives them in the business? What provides them meaning in their current role? So let me give you an example. I worked with a CFO and he is super passionate about sustainability. So that is outside that that sounds it's tiny step outside. But if I can take a solution and show how that solution applies not just to the business as a whole, but to his interest in sustainability.
00:18:57:05 - 00:19:15:12
Alex Perry
So now I've got him listening. So, and you have to forgive me for not remembering your name, but when you talked about having someone not listen to you. Right. Not really listen to you, is are we talking in a way that grabs their attention? I start talking about sustainability and you're like, ooh, I care about sustainability.
00:19:15:16 - 00:19:43:13
Alex Perry
That matters to me. Let's talk about sustainability. Now. I'm talking to their interest level. All right. And the third is to communicate with empathy. Right. So this is where we've done all the work we just did to understand where they're coming from. And then some strategy. And what I find particularly helpful when we're having conversations, because we have these conversations that are not always easy, is to have a little framework that helps us.
00:19:43:13 - 00:20:04:20
Alex Perry
Doesn't take long, but it can help you, communicate more effectively with the person in front of you. And that's what ly impact are you all familiar with a what why impact model? Like a framework for a conversation? If you're not, write this down because you can use this in a meeting. You can use this in a presentation.
00:20:04:20 - 00:20:32:13
Alex Perry
And you can use this in lots of different scenarios. But it's super helpful. What what are we there to talk about? If you all have ever walked into a meeting, you know, I walked into a meeting, you'd be like, what are we doing here? Okay, that's a lot. Happens. So if you want to show the empathetic response is to make sure you're the person that says, what are we here to talk about now, sometimes that gives people the jeebies because they're like, oh, I can't do that.
00:20:32:13 - 00:20:48:12
Alex Perry
Because that person, right, he's the CEO. He surely knows what we're here to talk about. And he's like, I don't know what we're here to talk about because I had 17 other meetings and I am just sliding in by the skin of my teeth, and it'll actually really help me if you tell me what we're here to talk about.
00:20:48:14 - 00:21:07:01
Alex Perry
That will be so helpful to me. You will win brownie points, be the person that says what we're here to talk about. So it could be a problem. An outcome. It could be a project. It could be lots of things. But label it, say it out loud. Then the why? Why does it matter to them? Not to us.
00:21:07:01 - 00:21:28:09
Alex Perry
Now, this is hard because oftentimes we are looking at things from our own perspective, and I can articulate why something matters to me. But I need to know why it matters to you. Back to my CFO. This is going to help you with sustainability. Back to our example of right five years out down the road here. This is the first step to that five year down the road plan.
00:21:28:09 - 00:21:44:10
Alex Perry
But you've got to be able to say it. You've got to be able to say that. Why does it matter to the leader, to the business and then you it doesn't matter to you. It's not that you're not important. But if we're going to frame it in an empathetic way, this is how we do it. And then there's the impact.
00:21:44:12 - 00:22:07:19
Alex Perry
So what's the impact of this? What's it going to do. And that could be from a positive standpoint. Like if we take this step it's going to get us there. Or it could be the back to target. If we launch now, this will feel. And boy oh boy, Chris and I were talking about this earlier. Having those conversations is an easy but it's a story.
00:22:07:21 - 00:22:36:22
Alex Perry
So being able to articulate the impact in a really short period of time is going to benefit. All right. My final example is to think about this like chess instead of checkers. In checkers, when you're playing checkers, all the pieces go one way. But in chess, each individual piece has its own role. It's our responsibilities and moves a certain way.
00:22:37:00 - 00:22:56:18
Alex Perry
The same is true for our leadership. Now, don't get me wrong. Like people are not pieces that we play, right? Right. But when we understand how they move, when we understand how other people think, and we understand what matters to them, then then we can create some real impact.
00:22:56:20 - 00:23:03:16
Alex Perry
I told you I was going to give a commercial. Are y'all ready for that?
00:23:03:18 - 00:23:27:10
Alex Perry
So my mission is to help people say what they need and want to say. I work with leaders across all levels in developing their communication skills, everything from presentations to one on one conversations. I am watching a cohorts and send that communicate with confidence cohort, and I've done multiple times. It's a virtual cohort. It launches in September. If you would like to learn more about it.
00:23:27:10 - 00:23:42:12
Alex Perry
If you are passionate about communication or know someone that is, please, please, please talk to me before you leave today and I can tell you some more information. I'd love to have you be a part of that.
00:23:42:14 - 00:23:59:04
Alex Perry
If all else, stay in touch with me, this is a link to my email newsletter. I promise you it's not spam. I promise you I write it every week. You can ask my husband he's the one that edits it, so if you find a typo, it's on him. Please.
00:23:59:06 - 00:24:24:19
Alex Perry
What did you say? I'm sorry. That's right. He's not here. That's not fair. But it comes out every Friday. I would love to have you join with me. I share insights and upcoming events, so please, please, please do that. Now, before we go, I said I wanted you all to have an opportunity to talk, so I would love to you take the next two minutes and just hear what you're taking away from today.
00:24:24:21 - 00:24:56:14
Alex Perry
Anybody willing to share? Right. Tell me your name and master shame. Hi. I, I really struggle. I'm actually going to have to pull these lessons around really strong. It just really struggles with, context switching. So you should come in hot. Miller. Like I'm Avery. Yep. So using the Beltway impact framework, this one, hopefully everybody to agree on this to sort of, you know, how how so.
00:24:56:16 - 00:25:21:10
Alex Perry
Yeah, I love that. So she comes in hot. You want to help steer the conversation? I just need to know where we going. What what technology are we talking about? Yeah. What are what are we to help? Help? What are we here to do? Two more, please. Thank. Think, I'm Conway. Hi, guys. One thing I'm taking away is like, go into the conversation knowing that they're looking up, looking for out of it.
00:25:21:12 - 00:25:39:14
Alex Perry
Because often we will lead the conversation. Places have our aspect. What we need out of that. Not like there. Try it out and explore something that a way to be aware. Yeah. What do they need? And maybe they need to be stopped. Or maybe they need a tool. They need help. And how can you help them do that I love it.
00:25:39:14 - 00:26:08:01
Alex Perry
One more please. Right here. Hi. Yeah, right. I'm sorry, did I point? Hi in the brown scanner series? How did you think of that presentation? It's, it's phenomenal, but I think, the structure of it and the simplicity of your slide overall. One of the things I was asked to work out is probably something there was around, I think it's more on the top or Tuesdays.
00:26:08:07 - 00:26:26:02
Alex Perry
So, so understand your priorities, but looking for those opportunities when they take expansion roles or, you know, change it or whatever. So we just had it, applied to because I was thinking about our CFO just expanded his role to present voice across lines, joining some operational experience. I think those opportunities to get in with that and understand now.
00:26:26:02 - 00:26:42:05
Alex Perry
Hey. Okay, you went from here to here. Let's talk about your strategies. Let's talk about, you know, where where you want us to go and where your head is and all those things and pain points are what's going to give you the night about that particular businesses, how I, why don't number of units that getting.
00:26:42:07 - 00:26:58:10
Alex Perry
But I think there's those opportunities. Anytime there could be something small, something expanding or taking on, you know, something new and is probably refreshing to them to have somebody, you know, Hey, okay, I know you took that thing. Now let's talk about it. What? What does it mean to do it? What you want to know and,
00:26:58:12 - 00:27:12:11
Alex Perry
Yeah, refresh. Going to talk about opportunities. So am I going in with that conversation, y'all? Thank you so much for your time and your attention today. I really appreciate it. And Doug, thank you as always for having me. Thank you.