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Demystifying The Indie Film Journey
This season of Truly Independent is
supported by the Help Them See Foundation.
Help Them See is a nonprofit dedicated
to supporting feature films that
inspire faith, hope, and connection.
By partnering with filmmakers
that help them see Foundation
brings meaningful stories to life
and shares them with audiences
worldwide, making a lasting cultural
impact through the power of cinema.
Learn more and discover how you can
be part of the movement by visiting.
Help them see foundation.
Welcome to Season three
of Truly Independent.
I'm Garrett Batty, alongside
my co-host Daren Smith.
Each week we'll go in depth with guests,
industry experts, and we'll even share
our own experiences, all with the goal of
demystifying the independent film process.
This season, it's all about the
script from the first spark of an
idea to a polished final draft,
breaking it down for scheduling,
budgeting, and ultimately shooting.
We'll walk through every step it
takes to get from page to production.
Welcome to Truly Independent.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
Hello man.
Welcome back.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
Hey, it is good to be back.
Thank you.
How are you doing?
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
I'm great.
We should put, add some
context to that statement.
You were, you were out
of the country last week.
Um, I think we dive in to this
episode and talk about your trip.
What was that all about?
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
That's good.
Yes, I was outta the country and
it's good to be back and, we missed
an a week recording, but hopefully
in real time it won't feel that way.
But yes, I was in Antigua, which I just
learned how to pronounce, before the trip.
so Eastern Caribbean, Antigua doing
a really a unique project related
location scout that we can talk about.
It.
It'll be interesting to see where this
episode goes, but I'm excited to be back.
I'm excited to chat with you.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
Yeah, I think we've got maybe
two topics today that we can
talk about, but one of them is.
When stuff pops up, how and when and
why do you say yes to those things?
Because you know, sometimes that's
what you should be doing and other
times it can be a distraction
from what you should be doing.
So I wonder, you know, maybe there's not
so much you can say about the project
yet, but maybe talk about how this.
Came about and how you made the decision
to say like, yeah, I'm gonna take some
time and go do this and explore it.
And there's, if there's figuring
out if there's something there.
There.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: Yeah.
Yeah.
No, it's a good, it's a good topic and
it's honestly been something that's
been on my mind lately is how do you,
when do you say yes, when you say no?
And as an independent filmmaker.
How do we manage all of these
projects that we have to keep
simmering until one takes off and
it's this principle of momentum.
And Daren, we've talked a little bit
about momentum with your current project
and kind of understanding when momentum
is happening and when to run with that.
And the risks of that.
So I wanna talk about that of okay, do we
pursue a project that is gaining momentum
at the risk of losing other projects?
Or how do we best manage that?
This is probably, there's that filmmaker
aspect, but's also that kind of
entrepreneur just managing a, independent
film career, rather than just gig work.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
I don't know.
It's messy and muddled, but
hopefully we'll let, we'll talk
and I'll share our experiences and
listeners can learn what not to do
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: to do.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: And I
think the second part of the conversation
today then can be the decisions that
I'm looking at making right now on
Brotherhood, the project that, that we're
on, and it really sets it up nicely.
So let's start with your side
and we can end on my side maybe.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: Okay.
That sounds great.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: But
yeah, I think you've highlighted the big
question, which a lot of filmmakers have,
which I think is the core question for
this episode is like, how do I choose,
and I know we've talked about this
before, but now we're in the thick of it.
Like you, you are really, you're
balancing what two or three projects
on your side, but then you've
got this thing that popped up.
So walk us through how did
it come together, and why
did you make that choice?
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: Yeah.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
Why Garrett, why'd you do that?
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: why?
Yeah.
Hopefully the answer explains itself
when you, when I say I got a phone call
a couple of weeks ago saying, would you
like to go to Antigua to scout locations?
That question is yes.
And then what's the project?
Yes.
Daren, I've talked about
different projects.
I'm working on the Pearl,
and we've got fundraising for
where the dog heals happening.
We've got a script.
I've already done some location scouts,
and all of these films are kind of in that
same stage where there's a script, there's
some initial funds, there's interest.
We just did a read through for the
Pearl and these projects were slow burn.
I don't know.
It feels like they're gaining a little
momentum, like maybe two steps forward,
one step back or two steps forward,
and then wait for a little bit.
And I never, you never know.
I just never know which
one is gonna take off.
So this the, I got a, again, I got
a call from a client or a friend.
We have yet to do an
actual project together.
We've talked for years about
doing a project together, he
makes tourism videos for antia.
And he reached out and said, Hey,
I've got a client down there.
A very consistent client who would
like to do, would like to look at
doing feature films or some sort
of narrative storytelling build
the film industry in Antigua.
It's this small film industry that there's
a lot of interest and a lot of support
and like, they wanted to know if there
would be enough infrastructure and enough.
Resources available to do a film.
So with that, I said, look,
that sounds fantastic.
It's worth it for me to explore
for a week to go down there.
And so that's what we did.
So it was part meetings, part location
scouting, no specific project at the
start of the week, but certainly some
great projects by the end of the week.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Nice.
Was that just a function of,
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
I carry on?
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
well, was that just a function of you
walking around and going, oh, I could
sh, I could shoot something here.
This is an interesting location
or interesting place, and there's
an interesting feeling here, and
then it just sparked your creative
juices and you're like, oh, what
if we did something like this?
Or did you did they have some
projects in mind or did you have
some projects in mind going in?
Like what happened?
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
So they, see.
They did not have projects in mind.
They knew of my experience of making
independent films in a budget range,
that one to 3 million budget range.
They when they, when we talked, we.
When they described what they were
hoping to do, which is, fund some
independent films in this coming year
to try to build the film industry I
felt like we were aligned on that.
I, and I let them know, I said, I
do a lot of faith in family films.
and they were on board with that.
They said that, that sounds fantastic.
come on down and look at
what we're doing down here.
So I did feel like there was alignment.
So with that, in the weeks prior
to leaving, I did put together
several potential proposals.
I had done some research in Antigua, said,
look, what is the, what are the top 10?
Tourist attractions.
What's the history of Antigua?
And I actually met with Jeremy Preso,
who's been a guest of the podcast and
dear friend, and said, Jeremy, there's an
opportunity here to do a story on Antigua.
Do you wanna start
putting together a script?
So Jeremy and I have been brainstorming
outlines, and we had two or three
outlines of a script that I was able to
take down there or various scripts and
stories, is, are these pirate themed?
Are they treasure themed?
Are they, are we doing a rom-com?
And so as I got down there, we had
these kind of in the back of my
mind and didn't share a ton with the
potential client, but just, I wanted
to understand what they wanted and
then be prepared to respond to that.
And so
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
very helpful.
Yes, getting there first couple of
days were location scouting at several.
These all inclusive resorts and
the surrounding areas and lots
of fun touristy type activities.
And then we started having
discussions with, what the
ability to bring film equipment.
What film equipment exists
there, is there a rental house?
Is there a g and e, facility?
Is there a studio?
and the answers were frequently no.
So it was a matter of
saying, okay, how do we.
What support do we have in
bringing that equipment down?
And
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
were doing, you know, in addition
to location scouting, there was,
it was like logistical scout.
And as it was very much producer minded.
Do we bring the equipment
in that we're going to need?
And what sort of accommodations can
customs give us or the government?
And so our contact was very responsive
and very knowledgeable in those areas.
And, it felt like it wasn't
something I could just do over Zoom.
It was definitely very helpful to be
there, mingling and, handing everybody
and establishing the interest and gauging
the the opportunity and then coming
up with ideas that could, that that
would align with what they want to do.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
That's awesome.
My wife and I were in Portugal last month
for a trip just about 10, 12 days, and.
The same kind of thing happened where we
would be walking around an old castle or
walking around this like these lagoons
in Lagos, Portugal and just going,
man, it'd be so cool to film here.
And then your brain starts going of
like, oh, what, what could we do?
And how do we shape that into a story?
'cause there's a big difference between
a couple of cool shots at a cool location
and a story that justifies all of the,
the logistics and planning and producing
that it's gonna take to get there.
But.
It's fun.
It happens.
Um, so that's cool that you
were able to go and be there.
I'm so that, and I think you transition
nicely, not away from your story,
but I can add on some of the stuff
that I've been thinking of over the
last week or two of you talked about
putting on your producer brain and
going, okay, well, there's the story
aspect, but then there's the how
are we actually gonna pull this off?
And I also want to introduce the
idea of like, every movie I think
has a pace that it wants to go at.
It also has a budget that
it wants to be made at.
There's just like a natural
sweet spot that I've found.
If I do a budget and it wants to be at 1.5
and we're trying to do it for seven 50,
it's like, okay, well that's, that's
not maybe where the movie wants to be.
But we're gonna do it this way,
so we gotta make some concessions.
We're gonna have to trim what the movie
wants to be, or change or consolidate.
Um.
And so I, I love that you brought that
up, that even in the location scout, even
in the early phases of ideation of a, a
story that you're thinking about, okay,
well what, what does this want to be?
Is this it's probably not some $30
million thing with big A-list actors.
Like, no, we wanna do this on a
scale that's manageable and doable
because there isn't the infrastructure
to do a $30 million movie there.
So what I've been thinking about
on this movie, and I think.
To answer or to maybe comment on some,
one of the things you said of like,
how do you choose which one you've
got two or three projects in motion.
I think the one that has the momentum
that just like to me is a signal
that like this is the one, and we've
talked about with brotherhood, it
certainly happened with the last two
movies that we did together, like.
You know, you called me and two
what, three, four months later
we were filming, you know, it was
like a location scout or a wreckee.
And then two months later we're
in pre-production and a month
after that we're out filming.
It just had that sort of pace to it.
And then we came home and an faith
of angels was interesting 'cause
we, it had that initial momentum.
We were gonna come off the plane
and start filming faith of Angels
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: Yeah.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
carpenter and then it fell through
and it was like, oh, pump the brakes.
Hold on.
This is not what this movie wants to be.
To me that was a budget thing of this
movie deserves this type of budget.
Not a small budget, not a not one
where we'd have to make a lot of
sacrifices to tell this story properly.
A year later it came together once,
once we found the right financial
partner, it was like all steams
ahead, all steam, full steam ahead.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
There it's
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
My metaphor.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: go.
Yes.
All, yeah.
Yeah, Daren, you're exactly right.
And that momentum is invaluable.
And I think that, as a producer, it's,
the challenge is like identifying.
Or a challenge is identifying that
momentum, or is this momentum, or
is this just self perpetuating hype?
Or Hey, look at this.
And I try to be very careful and
very conscientious of not with
them saying, look it's still
a challenge to make a movie.
So I love that there's enthusiasm and
excitement and, Hey, we wanna do a movie
down here in some locations we'd go to.
And they're absolutely beautiful.
I had to continually question
and ask myself look, what is
the value of this location?
And is it worth the the
pain of getting here?
To be quite frank, it's an absolutely
beautiful place, and there were lots of
amazing opportunities.
And obviously as a
director, as a storyteller.
Those ideas start to flow and you go,
oh, this is cool because this is cool.
Then you start to say, okay, how do what?
do we get the crew here
and what crew is here?
How big is our crew?
And what is the cost of getting a crew
down here to stay at these all inclusive
resorts and that best use of the funds?
And so if you just have to start
to balance out things and say,
look, I know there's excitement.
That's good, that excitement's
gonna die real quick.
you know, the first problem comes up
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
okay, is that momentum?
Is that, is there momentum enough to
get us beyond these problems or to
solve these problems or plow through
'em or roll over these problems?
If the answer is yes, then great.
And I think we found that with
Faith of Angels that first.
Excitement was, we're gonna make a movie.
This is great.
The potential funder was
so excited to make a movie.
But then when the challenge
of, now we gotta make a movie,
now you gotta write the check.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
oh, whoa, wait a second.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah,
that's why I like to put those two
moments as close together as possible.
Oh, you have the excitement.
Send the money now.
Just give it that the no buyer's remorse.
But yeah, it's very different to be
there on, at an all-inclusive resort.
Eating good food all day long and
taking your time and exploring and.
Vacationing almost.
It's more of a vacation vibe than
being on set, working 10, 12 hours a
day, getting up early, going to bed
late, too tired to explore and see
and, and uh, really take it all in.
So those are different experiences
that Yeah, we, we don't want to
go in thinking it's just gonna
be like a vacation for a month.
It's like, no, it's work.
You're still gonna be making a movie.
Um, yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
and Bacon movie and as a producer,
you're bringing in crew and you
have to say, look, am I really
going to be able to pull this off?
If I'm gonna bring in
professional crew or even friends,
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
that you've worked with
a thousand times before.
At the end of the day, you still have to
go away from that island or that location,
whatever it is, with a film in the
can, and to say, Hey, we're gonna spend
three weeks shooting in an all inclusive
resort is gonna be the time of our life.
And say, you know what okay, we're
gonna be away from our family.
Have to essentially shut down
sections of this all-inclusive resort.
For extended periods of time,
are they gonna allow that?
What are the challenges that that
are gonna accompany telling this
story in this beautiful location?
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
and if those outweigh the if the
challenges outweigh the payoffs, then
that's a project that maybe gets,
then gets pushed to the back earner.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
Yeah, very true.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: The,
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: also want
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: is
that was not the case with this one.
This one
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
that's good.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: yeah.
I keep
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
No, that's good.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
talking you through it.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
I love it.
I mean, that's what we wanted to to
talk about was like, that's a cool
experience that came because you
have this career because you're known
as the guy for this type of thing.
And so yeah, those are the things that
you go, okay, well, everything I've done
up to this point has made it possible for
an opportunity like this to come to me.
And so that's something that
we should recognize and be
grateful for and go, okay, well,
I should at least consider this.
Instead of just being like, no, no,
no, that's not what I wanna do next.
It's like, well man, that.
That's an opportunity that doesn't
come every day to every filmmaker.
You know, it's a very special,
unique kind of request to come
out and be considered for that.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
I was very grateful for that.
Yeah, very excited for that opportunity.
And yeah, I wanted to make sure that
they knew, Hey, am I even the right guy?
Am I the guy that you want, i'm, this
is, these are the types of movies that
I make, that family friendly faith
genre or, family comedy, whatever it is.
And if you're building a film
industry, there are a million
different ways to make movie.
A million different stories out there.
Am I the guy you want?
And it went very well.
They, we, we, in addition to,
scouring the locations and going to
different islands and just seeing
of the potential out there, we did
get a chance to talk about different
stories that would work for them.
So I went down with two or
three ideas while there.
We came up with two or three more.
And so now it's a matter of,
and engaging what they want.
And essentially this is a project for
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Cool.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: I'm
not coming to them pitching a movie
with funding saying, they, they want
to make sure that this represents.
well, antiga and represent and is
a kickoff to what they want to do.
And so understanding that we're able
to put together some really fun project
ideas that now it's a matter of saying,
okay, now we're gonna put together a
budget and proposal and send it out there.
And those are the problems and I'm air
quoting problems that he's gonna look at.
And if his excitement.
Is greater than the problems, then we'll
probably be making a movie out there.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
There you go.
Amazing.
So I also wanted to
comment on this idea of.
Like your capacity or your bandwidth as
a filmmaker, and how do you balance that?
Because you talked about the projects
you already have kind of in the works
with the Pearl and where the dog heals
and then you've got these new things.
And so, and I'm sure every week
you're getting, opportunities
coming into your inbox going,
Hey, do you want to direct this?
Do you wanna produce this?
Do you want to finance this?
Do you want to co-produce this?
So how do you do it?
How do you figure out, s what
projects to do based on your capacity.
And I think it's important for
us to highlight that there's a
difference between you and I because
we have different capacity, right?
I can do multiple projects
a year as a producer.
Um, and I'll even talk about why the
fund structure is structured the way it.
To allow me to do multiple movies a year.
But if you are a director,
your capacity is much lower.
Meaning the number of projects you
can do in a given timeframe is lower.
If you're a crew member, uh, you can go
and if you're basically engaged from day
one of production to day 20 or whatever
of production, then you can do whatever.
10 movies a year for 20 days each.
Right?
And that's a, that's a lot of capacity,
which means you also need more
people that can hire you in a year.
Uh, if you only have one director
that likes you enough to hire
you or trusts you enough to hire
you or wants to work with you, a
director's capacity is very different.
Trying to do two movies
in a year would be insane.
One a year is probably really fast.
Two a year is more like
really good capacity.
You've got time to develop it and get
the financing in place and then do your
development and you know, start hiring
your crew and having time to work through
it in a really long pre-production.
Then you got a few months of.
Production and then you got post for a few
months, then you're releasing the movie.
I mean, that's, fate of Angels was a
year and a half, you know, of that.
So, and that was kind
of single focus for you.
I know you had to kind of do other things
as well, but for the most part, you
weren't working on two movies at a time.
You were working on one for that
18 months, if I'm not mistaken.
And so you have to think of
it in the reality of, okay,
what's my actual capacity or
bandwidth, uh, based on my role.
And one of the reasons I structured
producer fund, the way that I've done
it, is so that I can get out of the
day-to-day responsibility of being on
set, being responsible for signing checks
and making, decisions when, when things
break or whatever, solving problems.
And staying high level so that I can
be working on three movies at a time.
I can have one in development,
one in production, one in
marketing and distribution.
And I can inform, and I can,
and I can be a part of at high
level with all those things.
But the way I've structured it, and this
is the decision that I've been faced
faced with over the last couple of weeks,
is how am I gonna produce these movies
in order to allow me to stay high level?
I'll pause there for a
second, but I got more.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: I
think Daren, I think you bring up a
great point and I think that I try to
look at, there's two things I look at.
One is ownership.
And do I own these projects?
Then your role is not director.
Your role is like owner,
and that's all of the above.
For the Antigua projects, I've told them
even when they brought it up I said, look
I see this as a work for hire project.
So here's an idea.
If you're hiring me to come up with ideas
that we could do here's three or four
ideas and here's the invoice for that.
For the trip or whatever,
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: hiring
me to direct, hire me to direct, and
that's be basically a standard deal.
If it's a four week shoot, then there's
six weeks prep, nine weeks post, and
four weeks shooting, and that's it.
And that's what I have to allow my I have
to limit, my involvement to the role.
So when you're talking about, oh,
months and months of development
and pre-production, that's producer.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: And
if they're not hiring me to produce,
then that, then I don't do that.
So it would allow me to do those
three movies in a year as a director.
the other thing that I have to say is if
I say yes to this, what am I saying no to?
I, 'cause you're right, we have
to recognize our bandwidth and to.
To not do that would be to, I
guess probably it, it wouldn't
give the projects their due.
It would it would not give the projects
the attention that they deserve.
If you ignore your bandwidth.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah,
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: Now
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: part,
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
Sometimes you can stretch, push
yourself and hey, work two jobs.
We've all done it.
But yes, I, I.
Principal, I have to say, what am I saying
no to when I say yes to this project?
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
be very transparent with the client.
And they asked, they said,
Hey, would you consider coming
down and, three or four weeks?
And we just worked through stuff like
this together and based on the budget
and those early discussions, and I
didn't necessarily see the value in.
Doing that I don't think that's
the best thing for the project.
So I let them know, I said, look, I'm
not that at that stage in my career
where I can just drop everything
and hang out here for month.
And I don't think that would be the best
thing for the project in my opinion.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah,
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: Yes,
when the, I'll do the pitch, send it to
the client, they'll choose which project,
then it'll be a work for hire thing.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
That's awesome.
Uh, and it's great that you kind of
had those boundaries or those bumpers
in place to be able to say, no, this
is, here's the constraints that I'm
willing to work in, and I don't, I'm
not willing to say no to these other
things in order to accommodate that.
And I think what that highlights
is that you've got a goal.
For where you want your career to be
in a year from now, three years from
now, five years from now, and where
this plays in helping those dominoes
fall over the next couple years.
Like you don't want it to be a detour.
You don't want it to dis detract
or distract from the work that
you're already doing to say,
no, I've got this foundation.
I got these kind of movies, and
I've already aligning this stuff up.
This has to fit into that.
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna abandon what
I'm building in order to come and do this.
For the opportunity that it is right now.
Maybe if it were some different
type of opportunity, there's a
different consideration there.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: Can't
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: and yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
my, the priority is the
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
Mc Foundation is a donation, driven
fund that is gonna allow me to
produce and direct multiple movies
a year for the next 10 years.
Yeah, and you're right, Daren.
If this doesn't fall into that,
I need to say no to them more
than than I do the foundation.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
Yeah, so I mean, very similar
consideration over the last few weeks.
My, my big question was do I hire
or find a production company, or do
I build the team myself and produce
it through Craftsman Films, which
is, you know, a, a producing entity.
It's more of a financing entity, like
Producer Fund is the financing vehicle.
To fund movies that
Craftsman Films will produce.
But I don't have, you know, a team
of a dozen people that are working
for me on all the projects that I do.
I don't have a, I'm at my house.
I don't have a, a production office or
a studio or any sort of office space.
I don't have people on payroll.
And so the idea of, okay, if I'm
gonna build a team every single
time, that's a lot more commitment.
And a lot more work on my part
than maybe I should be doing.
On this project specifically, the
timeline is, so it's not rushed.
We have six months that
we devoted to development.
We're gonna film in like
April, may of next year.
And we really green-lit the
movie like November 1st.
So you have November, December, January,
March, April, that's six months.
Right?
So that's a lot of time with money to
be able to say, we're developing this
thing and hiring all of our people, but.
As Russ was just go, go.
Talking to very specific people
that he wanted to hire for like the
key creative roles, the production
designer, the cinematographer,
choreographer, costume designer.
Those conversations started
in November, and by the end of
November, we had all of them.
Getting offers.
So I was like, okay,
well that's interesting.
Like we've basically built
out the creative team.
So then what's left is kind of
your producing team and all of like
the, you know, your, your g and e
team and your locations and your
transpo and your production team.
And I was like, well, you know,
I spent some time in November
talking to production companies.
I talked with one in New York.
I talked to one here in Utah to say,
look I would like the dream scenario
is for me to write you one check
and say, go make the movie and then
come back with the finished movie.
And I don't want to, I don't wanna
hire people, I don't wanna set up.
Anything.
I don't wanna run payroll.
Like I, I want you to do all of that.
And, uh, the Utah company was too
busy around that time, so they passed.
I'm still waiting to hear
on the New York company.
We'll see what they say, but
I wasn't pausing my work to
wait for an answer for them.
We just kept going.
And so last week, now that we're into
December, I start having conversations
with local line producer UPMs that have
done musicals before and first adsd
and, and, and I'm going, okay, by the
time I hear back from this New York
production company, I'm gonna have the
whole team built, then what are they for?
So it kind of answered itself.
But that was the question that I was
confronting over the last, three or four
weeks was like, what's the right path
to produce this movie that allows me
to stay high level and manage people's
money as a, as someone who runs a fund?
Because like I've said
before, I think on this show.
If you're raising money from people, from
investors, if you're the person doing
that, your number one responsibility is
to get a return for your investors, to
get 'em their money back with interest.
And how lucky we are that we get
to do that by making a movie.
And the movie is the vehicle that
helps us get the main goal, which
is getting our investors a return.
Why is that the main goal?
Because you want them to be happy.
You want them to tell all their friends
that they had a really good experience.
And then we create more film investors,
which means we get to make more movies.
So it's all very self-serving, but it,
you have to make sure that you get your
investors what they want so that you can
do what you want, which is make movies.
So that's kind of how I've been.
Going through the last few weeks of
like this stress of, I mean, I've
literally been up at night thinking
about who else should I be talking to,
production company wise, and who else
is out there and does it make sense to
bring out of, bring an outstate company
because that limits the amount of
in-state spend with our tax incentive.
Like all those things are
playing, uh, on, on repeat in
my brain at two in the morning.
I mean, like we were saying earlier,
every project has a pace that it wants
to go at, and I didn't wanna slow
down the pace to say, well wait, we
don't have a production company yet.
So we just kept going and I just
kept talking and talking to people.
And I think that's one of the things,
as a producer, you have to be.
Conscious of what's the network you have?
What leverage do you have?
What are you bringing to the table?
And you go and you go and
you go and keep your options
open, but you just keep going.
And then I think the path kind
of reveals itself as you go.
At least that's my experience
on this one so far.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: Yeah.
Yeah.
It can be scary, Daren, because you have
to think, look, the investor is investing.
I know they're investing in the
fund, but ultimately they're
investing in the movie and in you
and your ability to get it done.
So that's what you're deliberating.
It's like, how do I make sure that I don't
impede my ability to get this movie done
and still do other movies, like still
focus on the fun, not get distracted.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
And so they, I, they're trusting
that you will make those decisions
for the best interest of the movie.
It sounds like you, you're
navigating, carefully.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah,
I'm trying to, I think, um, I was sending
an email off to a potential investor
this morning who was asking a bunch of
kind of due diligence questions about
previous films and the, the films in the
slate and stuff, and I ended the email
with, look, this is, this is not one
of those check the boxes type things.
Like if you're looking for an,
a quote, unquote name actor that
has great appeal and bankability
internationally and those kind of
things, like that's not what this is.
You're really betting on is that
I'm a good manager of uncertainty.
That you've got a good person at
the helm of this thing to say when
something doesn't go the way it was
planned or when we're confronted with an
opportunity to do something different,
I'm gonna make a decision that benefits
the investors and the projects.
And that's a unique place that
I've put myself in, and that's
what you're really betting on.
You're betting on me as a producer
and someone managing a fund
and making investment decisions
on your behalf in this space.
But that's what it is.
It's not a show me the check boxes and
how many of you checked, and if you check
enough, then I'll write you a check.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: Yeah.
Those conversations happen, but the
truly independent really isn't about
making those types of movies, we're not.
Doing the, that's why they're independent.
That's why people are saying no to em.
But we're gonna figure
out a way to make em,
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
Yes, we're doing it without you,
uh, whether you like it or not,
whether we like it or not, maybe.
But yeah, it's been a fun process
and for, you know, the sake
of being, uh, documenting the
process on the show, you know, by.
By January, mid-January, I
will have a final decision.
I hope to hear back from
the company in New York.
The reason why I'm still kind
of leaving that door open is
because they have a really great
relationship with a distributor.
So, um, I mean, I don't need to talk
about who the production company is,
but they have a relationship with
Amazon MGM, and so that's a very
different path for distribution to
say, oh, if I can bring in a production
partner, even if they're just like.
A, you know, a producer name only, and
they say, look, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
be a producer and collect a little
fee in order to make, you know, smooth
the path or grease the runway for
this conversation with Amazon, MGM.
Maybe that's worth it because that's a
very different distribution strategy than.
Self releasing, hiring a distributor
to put us in a couple hundred
screens with no marketing budget.
And so that's why I'm leaving that lane
open still, and I'm not really looking
at any other production companies
to say, oh, who else is out there?
Because if they don't have that sort
of relationship, well, I've already
built the whole production company.
I don't need their help anymore.
And I don't want to pay a fee just for
them to like be on the project when I've
already done a lot of the heavy lifting.
So.
That's where I'm at.
I, I, by three, four episodes from
now, we'll have a final update of
like, if you, if we wanna follow up
on it, like, yes, we're doing it this
way, here's who we're working with.
I should have some distribution
a little bit more dialed in.
I'm in those conversations now
and have three more conversations
with distributors this week.
And so it's a lot of just getting it
set up because I don't have a production
company with a relationship yet.
And so you just, you build it yourself.
You go truly independent,
you just make it happen.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: Yeah.
I love it, Daren It.
My brain starts to go down the
whole distributor road and what
are the costs of distribution?
What are the costs?
I say, oh, I have a New York based
production company that has a
relationship with a distributor.
just asking what do you
really want out of that?
Is it the relationship with a distributor?
And is there a way to secure
that without a production company
who's perhaps based on, I'd be
curious, and not that we have to.
Solve problems or debate on the episode,
I'd be curious about the value that a
New York based production company is
bringing other than the relationship
with a distributor, and if that really
offsets the cost of doing it through them,
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
The way that I've done that mental math
is to say, yeah, we're losing out on
whatever they're bringing to the table.
Maybe they have in-house producer,
line producer, UPM, production
coordinator, et cetera, et cetera.
Right?
A production accountant.
I think you'd want some of
those roles to be local.
Your UPM, your production coordinator,
you want local people because they
have the relationships and know the
vendors and know the crew and stuff, so.
There's maybe a handful of people that
they would bring or some infrastructure
that they could bring to the table,
and, but they're also gonna have a
production fee that's associated with it.
There may be one or two owners of the
company that are gonna want producer
or executive producer credits, so
you gotta be willing to give those
and maybe a share of the returns.
But if they have relationship with
a distributor that can bring $5
million of marketing to the table.
That's, to me a no brainer.
That's like, oh, okay, well then we
should definitely have that conversation.
And you can structure in your deals
like, oh, it's contingent on this.
We have to have those conversations and
have a distribution deal in place in order
for us to hire you as a production company
or what, however you wanna structure it
with your legal team to say, look, I,
I don't, I'm not hiring you and adding
expense and removing in-state spend.
For no reason.
It's for this relationship.
So if you can't deliver the relationship,
there's no partnership here.
But that's how I'm thinking about it.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
the performance like you, because
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
the performance, right?
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
Because the distributor's gonna
have casting caveats and things
like that, that it sounds like
you're already making those deals.
And whew, that's a, I'm glad that you are,
brain figures that stuff out because I
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Like
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
whole of questions.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
different conversation on casting
that we could probably have.
But I do think that there,
you have to say as a producer.
This is the movie we're making, and
if you like it, great, we can talk.
And if it's not for you, then also great.
Like we're not making the calculated
movie of how do we get 10,000 extra
dollars from, this territory in
international sales two years from now.
Because two years from now,
the list of, bankable talent is
gonna be completely different.
So I don't play that game and I've
told three separate distributors
now we are not playing that game.
And they said, great,
we can't work together.
I said, okay, thanks for letting me know,
because that's not the game we're playing.
That's not the movie we're making.
And it's like, okay.
They go, okay, great.
Good luck.
And I say, great, thanks for the call and
you know, we're friends and it's fine.
But.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: Yeah.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
has the market.
Everyone has a place in the market that
they've carved out, and it's really
hard to get people to budge from that.
And so if you're talking to an
international sales agent or a distributor
and saying, look, there's potential
to come in on some financing or some
marketing distribution fees or whatever.
We can have that conversation,
but as soon as they go, well,
tell me about your talent.
I'm like, yep, we're in different lanes.
This is not gonna work out in your favor.
So let's just pause there
and say, thanks for the call.
We'll talk next time.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: It's
a, that's a, yeah, it's a tricky spot.
That's,
Independent.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
That is why.
Cool man.
I'm excited to hear, if that project.
If a project comes from that,
I'm excited to hear how you
guys pick it up in the new year.
'cause I think everything
shuts down basically from here
on out, like after this week.
This is, we're recording this on what?
The 15th
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: Yeah.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
in my, my calendar reflects that
like last week, first week of
December, and this week we're packed.
Like everybody's trying to get
end of the year deals and business
and conversations happening.
But nobody's meeting, from the 20th
on, like that's just, you're done.
Like, don't even try
to reach out to people.
So I've done all of my like email
blasts and this is, here's how to
contact me and let's set up a call.
And tomorrow and Wednesday
are like 10 calls.
Both days just stacked.
But Thursday, Friday, nothing.
Next week, nothing.
So I'm excited to take
some time off and to.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
We'll take some time off.
Tune in next week for
the the annual review.
The reminiscent
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
Yeah, there you go.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
I don't know.
Let's talk about.
know the best movies we've
seen this year or something.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
I love it.
And biggest lessons learned in what
we've been trying to do this year?
Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553: And
not to belabor the point, but I do want
to do an episode or at least have a
conversation about maintaining momentum.
And just saying, look, that, how do
we, the Antigua project or the faith
of angels, excuse me, the where the dog
heals or the Pearl or even brotherhood.
And unless you have a guy like Ross that
is just eat, sleep and drink movie making.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yeah.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
as a producer maintain that
momentum so that you know it?
'cause you got year's worth of
production and project that you
have to do and problems to solve.
So another discussion,
teaser for another episode.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554: Yep.
I love it.
Okay man, good stuff.
Uh, I'll see you in a few hours.
We're hanging out today doing some
filming and I'm excited to, to have people
see what we've been working on 'cause.
I've been told by a potential PR
partner not to scoop ourselves.
And so I need to be very cautious of what
I say on this podcast and on my LinkedIn
to make sure that I'm not saying things
before the official channels say things.
But man, we've been doing some behind
the scenes filming about the process
of making brotherhood, and I'm
very excited for those to come out.
garrett-batty_1_12-15-2025_101553:
Yeah, no scoops.
All good review stuff though.
daren-smith_1_12-15-2025_101554:
There you go.
All right, man.
Thanks a ton.
See you next time.
Thanks for joining us.
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Today's episode was edited by
Michael Bradford and produced
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