Basic Motivations Webinar 2024

What is Basic Motivations Webinar 2024?

Every culture (family) has distinctive motivations for doing things, but they all have definite pattern and logic, they all provide order and direction within the culture (family). We need a valid cognitive styles model to help us understand the motives and actions of other people, to predict behavior, and sidestep conflict.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Well, I just wanna thank you all so very much for being so patient yesterday and such good and open and great, participants. I enjoy all of your all of your input. So this morning, we want to start with what was the assignment, which was to find,

Connie Smith:

to

Connie Smith:

make 3 observations of 3 different people and decide or events and decide whether they are time tend towards time or tends towards event, and what was your evidence. So, Mike, if you wanna go down the list, if you didn't get this done, no problem. Just say so, and we'll move on to the next one.

Vivian:

Okay. I'm afraid sorry. I'm afraid that I I might be the one that leaving the class soonest, so I will start first with my assignment. K. The first one that is my husband.

Vivian:

I think he's a a very strong time,

Vivian:

you

Connie Smith:

know, person

Vivian:

because I

Vivian:

have a different one.

Vivian:

Because because very often when we go out travel, he's always the one that, you know, push us to leave, like, many hours ahead of the time so that we won't be late. But, usually, I'm the one, you know, on the dot and just very casually just leave whenever I feel, like, ready. And, also, when we do camps, he's the timekeeper. You know, he's he's the program, like, you know, director. He makes sure, okay.

Vivian:

At this time, this must happen. Okay. Now is we must move on to the next thing. So yeah.

Connie Smith:

So that's the reason? One one. What's another one? Okay.

Vivian:

Another one. My mom's. I think she's a more the event person. So for her, as if time doesn't exist.

Connie Smith:

That kinda gives you a first clue.

Vivian:

Yeah. She doesn't care if things is late or you know, for her, it's, like, more in the moment. You know, something fun happened right now. And then my dad, he's the opposite. You know, he's time person.

Vivian:

So he drives me nuts and crazy. You know, always push me to leave the house 4, 5 hour later if he had know I need to catch a train or a plane or something. So

Connie Smith:

Right. Yeah. Very, very good. Very good evidence and backed up very well. Alright.

Connie Smith:

Next. And, Mike, at least I have no way, no I can't hear you. There you go.

Mike Banker:

Gala is packing, so she's not, showing her face right now. So let's go to Stone, I guess. You're up, next in line. Mhmm.

Vivian:

K. I come up with I observe myself. Like, I'm a little bit I think I'm, like, mix 2 things together. Sometimes I'm time oriented. Sometimes it's, event oriented, and I come up with this.

Vivian:

Like, I don't when I come to event oriented like, when I when I look at my, like, timetable, I don't schedule my rest time. I don't have a specific time, like, okay. I'm gonna go go out and play like this and that. No. I don't do that.

Vivian:

I just rest when I feel I need to. So I'll so I'll, like, work, work, work until I feel tired and the rest for half a day or for, 1 or 2 days. Or sometimes if I'm extremely tired, then

Connie Smith:

Then who's another one?

Vivian:

Who's another one?

Connie Smith:

Yep. We were to do 3 3 evaluations.

Vivian:

3 evaluations. Both all of them on myself.

Connie Smith:

Oh, okay. Alright. Yeah. Okay. So

Mike Banker:

Three observations of yourself. Okay.

Vivian:

Yeah. And Alright.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm. Go ahead.

Vivian:

When I when I, like, go out hang out with my friends and we don't have specific time. Like, we just, say, hey. We will do this once we finish the work, or we will have lunch once I get this down. So something like that. And then we'll all like it.

Vivian:

Okay. I don't know when I will get this down, but when I get this down, I'll I'll tell you, and then we can go on. We can wrap something together. Yeah. So this is event oriented.

Vivian:

And, but I have to work on a time oriented schedule because, I need to work with other people because other people might need to so I need to book a time, like like, 2 PM for something for, for a session or for teaching, and I have to stay with that schedule. And when I need to have a interaction with people offline in person, I will make sure that I will arrive at that place at least 20 or 30 minutes earlier to prepare everything. Yeah. So that's my yeah.

Connie Smith:

Very good. And who's next?

Mike Banker:

Carmen.

Carmen:

Yeah. I was raising my finger. First, I thought that the the story about Hezekiah came up, you know, what god did to confirm Hezekiah of his healing. So I got these verses, in second king second king 20 chapter 20 verse, verse, okay, 8 to 11. And, Isaiah the book of Isaiah chapter 38 verse 4 to 8.

Carmen:

Like, recorded twice about God God I said, I will make the shadow cast by the sun go back the 10 steps It has gone down on the stairway of. So the sunlight went back the 10 steps. It had gone down. Okay. I'm quoting my my evidence before I say.

Carmen:

I think god is showing that he is event oriented because, another time, it happened to Joshua. Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites. This is from the book of Joshua. And the sun stood still and the moon stopped. So, the sun stopped in the midst of heaven and did not hurry to set for about a whole day.

Carmen:

That's the second day second story. And the other scripture in the New Testament, in second Peter 1st or second Peter 3 8. But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the lord, one day is as a 1000 years and a 1000 years as one day. So that made me wonder, like, in this kind of occasions, god is showing himself as a event oriented culture. Right?

Connie Smith:

Well, that Those are event kind of things. Yes.

Carmen:

That kind of occasion.

Connie Smith:

Alright. So that's that's one one person.

Vivian:

One

Carmen:

person. But as I'm yeah. Okay. This is one observation of God's

Connie Smith:

see, one of 1 excuse me. But one of the problems with using scripture, because we we have to take, as you have done, a passage and see whether that particular passage shows god to be time or event or any of the others because god is all of it.

Carmen:

Yeah. That's what I what I wonder. Is this,

Connie Smith:

a So this is this is a good illustration of where you have taken a passage

Carmen:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

And to show that he is on the event side at at at least in in these with this evidence. Yes. And you'll find other evidence that he's waiting for on the time side. So god god is overall. He's he's everything.

Connie Smith:

So so if you okay. Okay. So you chose god for the first one. What's your second one?

Carmen:

Oh, I I may not be matching the okay. The second one is our church, all my pastors. They are American. Okay. Doesn't matter who where they are from.

Carmen:

But our church reschedule all the events timely, and we start right on time. But there are, like, always people who come late, and there are always people who come early and those who come right on time and who come late. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Carmen:

So it shows, I guess, mostly these who come late, they have a tendency to be more event oriented, not time oriented.

Connie Smith:

And those who are setting up the program are

Carmen:

I guess they are time oriented. You'd think. Actually, I I wonder if that was because because we are living in this community where most of the people are even oriented. You have to go, I mean, time oriented. You have to go by time to be able to live together.

Carmen:

Oh, yes. That shows the truth the truth of who the person is. I don't know.

Connie Smith:

You're going to have to have more evidence before you can conclusively say. But in your illustration that you gave, that you just observed, you've the

Vivian:

people

Connie Smith:

who are participating in it, and the people who are participating in it, our event. Oh, we did a great job on that. Great job.

Carmen:

Yeah. And sometimes they just don't show up. Well yeah. But that's

Connie Smith:

a whole another thing.

Carmen:

There's a mixture of people groups.

Connie Smith:

And so you're 3rd person?

Carmen:

Yeah. The evidence, like, the password when making a okay. That was my second evidence. I would say, like like, the Americans, even when they were coming late, they would text me. I'm gonna be 5 or 10 minutes late.

Carmen:

But then the people from other countries, like Mongolians or Thailand, they don't tell you at all. And, like, my Thai neighbor may come knock on my door and peek from my window and see if I'm inside without letting me know ahead. That's like, the Thai most of the Thai people here are quite event oriented. And my Mongolia friends would be those like, it's okay if you stop by anytime. Even if I don't have make appointment, I show up.

Carmen:

They will stop what they were doing, and they would spend time talking with me. But not the Americans or even not Chinese. Some Chinese like me. I don't do that. Yeah.

Carmen:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

Alright. So you did a good job with those 3. Very good. Very good. Very good evidence.

Mike Banker:

Okay. Let's see. I guess, Michelle, you're up. Yep.

Vivian:

Okay. I have to confess. I didn't listen to the, recording. I didn't know that but I can give you three examples. I didn't know that I have assignment.

Vivian:

So just 30 minutes ago, we my husband and I were on a different meeting. We had a little conflict during the meeting because he wanted to share something in the text, and I said, no. Let's just talk about it, this this meeting. I'm the Yvette or enjoy the sharing detail interaction. But he's like, don't take away time.

Vivian:

Just type it so we were like, a little bit. Yeah. So the evident is he's always time very time oriented. If we are on the way to church, run into our neighbors and neighbors want to talk, I will talk. I will stop.

Vivian:

I will come out from my car. But he's like, we're running late. We're running late. So that is me being event event oriented and husband my husband's time. Mhmm.

Vivian:

Another person that, one of my colleagues, recently, I we were in a training program, and and I was leading a kind of a debriefing, sharing, closure time. But because of the people, they they said we divide it into 2 groups. Each person shared 3 minutes. And I was like, oh, let's see how the holy spirit leads. I really want to see, you know, whoever wants to share at this okay.

Vivian:

Give them a reference of 3 minutes, but let the holy spirit. So but because I was told to do the the 3 minutes, you know, I wasn't facilitating it. But because of that time, this came feel like I couldn't really do a a good job

Connie Smith:

and

Vivian:

kind of in the end, I did, miss out one thing. And I looked back, I said, I wasn't really doing a good job because of the time constraint I think I have to watch. And the other the colleague with me, she set up a iPad every 3 minutes. The timer will go off, and I

Connie Smith:

was like,

Vivian:

people talking to turn it off.

Vivian:

So the conflict between me and my colleague is time event. Right. So that's 3. If you want more, I have more story, but no need to

Connie Smith:

That's fine. But what what you're showing is that here's a case where you didn't change who you were, but I stuck to what the program said. I did what I was told. I was frustrated and felt unfulfilled in what I shared, but I did do what was done, what was told to me. Now that's going to be another continuum.

Connie Smith:

But the fact is that you're the the frustrated feeling that you had was because you are what? I need to. Yes. And and all of this matters to you. And, therefore, you were frustrated.

Connie Smith:

If you had gone over that, there's 2 things that would have happened. 1, it would have put everybody else behind. Right? And it, would have frustrated your leader to no end because they're planning 3 minutes like Mike did yesterday with 1 minute. Okay?

Mike Banker:

Good point.

Connie Smith:

You guys are picking just you you got this, I think. I think you've got this. Okay. Who's next? Thank you, Michelle.

Mike Banker:

Yep. I guess not. I guess you're up.

Donna Marcue:

Okay. One example is well, I have plenty of examples from my marriage, so I have to just pick. But I am time, and my husband is event. And when I take a walk, my desire is to try to make it aerobic, so I get some exercise. But my husband will say, well, let me walk with you.

Donna Marcue:

I'm thinking, okay. So we start out the door, and the first person we see you know, I say hi, and he has to stop, start asking him questions. And I'm thinking, and I gotta go. I gotta go. And he keeps talking, then I finally get him to move.

Donna Marcue:

And then there's then we run-in another person, and finally, I just say, you know what? I'll see you back at home. And I just keep walking, and he's just enjoying talking to all the neighbors. So yeah. So every once in a while, say, let's walk together.

Donna Marcue:

I'm like, we

Connie Smith:

tried that. It doesn't work.

Donna Marcue:

Okay. Another one. So the I am time. So he's very event. We went to babysit my this is years ago.

Donna Marcue:

My son and his family lived in a city in Oregon, Bend. And we went to babysit their kids, and there was one that was an infant. And then there were 5 kids. 1 an infant, some school age, and then one that was, going to no. Wait a minute.

Donna Marcue:

Yeah. 4 at 4 at home and one had to go to school. The oldest had to go to school. But the the 4 at home one was an infant. So I decided I better stay with the 4 at home, especially with the infant, and I'll have my husband take her, the oldest one, to to school.

Donna Marcue:

She was in kindergarten or 1st grade. So that's what we decided in the morning. You take Natalie, and I'll stay with the rest of the kids. So in the morning, I'm getting getting things ready, getting her lunch ready, and my husband goes outside to get the newspaper. And then I see him talking to somebody, and I think, well, he'll be right back in.

Donna Marcue:

And he doesn't come in. He doesn't come in. I'm like, finally, I opened the door. I'm like, Bob, you gotta take her to school. She's gonna be like he saw some neighbors, which he didn't even know.

Donna Marcue:

You know? Starts talking to him and, of course, since these event, he just has a great time talking and totally forgets he's supposed to take the the little girl to school. So I would at the time, I was so frustrated. I wish I would have known this because I thought, here I am. You know?

Donna Marcue:

It's like I have 6 kids instead of 5 because I have to be in charge of everything. So, yeah, that was but now it helps me a lot to know this after I took this course a few years ago with Connie and Richard. Oh, I can see it so much, and I don't get I I don't get mad because I used to think he's just not listening to me or something, but he's just caught up in the people. So it helps me a lot. And the third example is my sister and brother-in-law.

Donna Marcue:

I think it's mostly my brother-in-law. When I met my mom's, they will take me to the airport, which is nice when I have to go. So say, what time do you want me to us to come? And I'll say, we'll come at 9 o'clock. Well, he always comes at quarter to 9.

Donna Marcue:

And then they stand around, like, impatient, like I'm supposed to be ready, and I I need those last 15 minutes to get everything done because I may be time, but I'm off in the nick of time. I'm

Carmen:

not I'm not

Donna Marcue:

a early time person. So

Carmen:

Okay. Fine.

Donna Marcue:

The last 15 minutes are really important to me to get everything done, and I just feel so nervous because they're standing there. Were you ready, Ned? Should I take your suitcase out? Yeah. You know?

Donna Marcue:

So I'm gonna have to tell him come at 9:15 when I want him to come at 9 after this Yep. After this session so I don't get nervous and, like

Connie Smith:

And they don't get impatient. Yeah. Alright. Another case of good examples. Good examples.

Connie Smith:

Alright. Who's next?

Mike Banker:

Let's see. Cindy.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So, well, I got my computer problems worked out. But, anyway, I okay. So the first one is about, somebody else in the the I I'm changing my, thing. I have 3, but I'm changing my, last 2.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So, just I just wanna show you how conflicted I am. So, the first one is, we were I I had a, in China, in Beijing, there was a group of mothers. We that was our prayer group. And we went to go visit another, family, a woman who was in our prayer group to begin with, but they went to, Egypt to do missions.

Connie Smith:

And so we were with them, and, we were getting ready to all of us were getting ready to have lunch with an Egyptian couple. So, so we go there and we're kind of waiting and waiting. I mean, we're supposed to have lunch about, you know, between 12 and 12:30. We're waiting. We're waiting.

Connie Smith:

You know, we're waiting. And, you know, people from China are at least this particular, Chinese couple that we went to go visit, they're very much, they're more time people. Like, they like to be on time because they're very, goal driven. And so, for for me, I'm just going with the program because I'm, you know, I I'm I'm the guest. So we're waiting, and then finally, she comes out, like, you know, like, an hour something later.

Connie Smith:

And, you know, she looks beautiful. And my friend was saying okay. So they don't speak any Chinese. So she's saying to me in Chinese, she goes, well, you know, she had to do her hair. She had to put on her makeup, and she had to get dressed because she's getting ready for this event.

Connie Smith:

And so, you know, she needed to, like, she needed to for her, it was a big deal, okay, to go out, to get her for lunch. And so, for me, it is I mean, for her, she's an event person because she is the event is the lunch. The event she wants to enjoy the lunch feeling good about the way she looks and the way she presents herself to people. And so I'm, you know, I'm like and okay. So just as an aside for this Egyptian couple, so that's event.

Connie Smith:

So then they go okay. So, their understanding from the bible I forgot which verse. But, anyway, is that during end times or close to end times, Egypt is going to appear, as, you know, as a very important player in in end times. And so and so they were invited by a whole bunch of Chinese churches to talk about you know, because he has visions, he has dreams, and he has so, anyway, so he was invited. And this, couple, they're very Pentecostal.

Connie Smith:

So, you know, it fits right in. So they're all going to all the churches who like to listen to this. And so, you know, there's a lot of churches. And so, of course, since their thing is being paid for,

Connie Smith:

they gotta pack that schedule.

Connie Smith:

So they got them going okay. So first of all, the morning prayer time. Well, that's, like, super early in the morning. Alright? Egyptians don't get up until 12, 1, 2 o'clock, in the day because they go to bed really late.

Connie Smith:

And so they are having to be at a church in the morning, like, really early. Like, for them, 8:30. Okay? 8:30 is, like, extremely early for them. They don't rise until 12, 1, 2 o'clock.

Connie Smith:

So they're dying, alright, just to even get to the first one. But then next thing, you know, that they don't just go to that church. Then they're schlepping them off to the next church in the afternoon. And they've got a okay. So they have to speak at all these events because that's what they're there for.

Connie Smith:

So they're they're required to speak okay. Speaking a long time and then for Chinese okay. So that worked out well. But it's just not just once. It's then in the afternoon, and then it's and then in the evening.

Connie Smith:

And so they're not finishing till 9, 10 o'clock at night. So they're starting in. They have over 12 hour days.

Vivian:

They

Connie Smith:

have 15 hour days. The Chinese couple, woah. What's the what's this is this is great. You know? Thoughts of churches get to hear their visions and what they feel about Egypt and, you know, and this Egyptian couple is dying, and they did this for 2 weeks.

Connie Smith:

They practically lost it. And so, so Egyptians who are generally event, I I feel. And, and then this Chinese couple who's pretty time oriented, well, it just shows you that, you know I mean Right. Yeah. So and then the last okay.

Connie Smith:

My last one is, is me. When I'm working with Mongolians and I'm doing, debriefing, I have a tendency oh, golly would know. Is that, I schedule them for 2 and a half, 3 hours slots to to sit and talk with people. Well, I'm in the moment, and we're sitting here at 3 o'clock, and somebody's pour I mean, 3 hours, and we're somebody's pouring their heart out. And I'm you know, there's somebody behind you know, the people are lined up really, like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Connie Smith:

So I'm the people it's okay. So this is a little conflicting. So I'm in the moment, and I'm not wanting to cut anybody off, you know, even though there's somebody else behind that's waiting to come into the room. So we're just going on and on. Next thing you know, it's, like, 4 hours.

Connie Smith:

Right? So, it's not meant to be that long. So, so, in that case, I'm event because I'm going I'm in the moment, and I wanna be able to give that person the time that they want. But when it comes to me, if I have to teach Sunday school or if I have to teach something, I go and I'm usually early because I've got a setup and I don't feel comfortable just to walk in the door and start teaching. I have to, like, get my mind in that space.

Connie Smith:

I have to make sure my computer and PPT are working. I've been make every sure everything is working. So it depends on the situation. If I'm, you know, if I'm having to produce something, I am time. But if I'm having to listen, then now I switch into an event person.

Connie Smith:

So I so it really is based on, the need of the situation, and I adjust according to what the needs are.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Very, very good illustrations. Just, a question. What would you determine that where Cindy falls on the time event continuum based on the presentation of her three observations. She's weird.

Connie Smith:

No. Oh, no. No. No. No.

Connie Smith:

No. Come on. Come on. We we've gotta move on here. The morning's gonna be gone.

Mike Banker:

I think

Connie Smith:

she's the Thai person who is Yeah.

Mike Banker:

I think she's a Thai person because she's noting all these differences that of these event driven people. That's my that's my suggestion.

Connie Smith:

Alright. It might be close

Donna Marcue:

to the middle, but maybe just slightly on time.

Connie Smith:

I'm talking about her presentation, not what she said.

Carmen:

But because presentation. She wouldn't cut off her present session to let the next session happen in time.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Okay. Okay. Now is that a sin? No.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Okay. Alright. Alright. Now what we will get to, if we get there,

Carmen:

is

Connie Smith:

we're going to be talking about dichotomous and polis next, and you'll see she's a good example here. And, Cindy, I'm I'm just picking on you because you were such a perfect example of an, event presentation

Connie Smith:

of 3 points. Event presentation.

Connie Smith:

Event presentation, and you'll find that it was also very holistic. And I I I bring this up because it will give us a starting point then when we when we start teaching on on the by dichotomy holism. Okay. I'm I'm not picking on you. Oh.

Connie Smith:

I'm seeing you as a Unfortunately, I think you really and I realized that, and that's why I picked on you to bring us out because of alright. Who's next?

Mike Banker:

I guess I'm up. Did we get everybody up? Okay. Yeah. A lot of different examples came to mind.

Mike Banker:

One was, we have this prayer group called the banker bunch that meets every month. They've been meeting for, like, 15 years. And, usually, Dave runs the show, and Dave is a real stickler. We have to start on time, and we have to end on time. And so, there's always this constant I feel that constant pressure from from him, you know, to start on time and on time.

Mike Banker:

So we expanded. It used to be just the banker family, now it's the banker bunch. So there's others that we pray for too. And, so now we're trying to fit more into the same power we used to have. And so the pressure you feel even more pressure.

Mike Banker:

And then then I say to, well, okay. Vivian and Gala are in that group. So so I say, Gala, why don't you come talk to the group? And, Gala likes to likes to share her stories and doesn't I don't think Gala pays too much attention to the clock. I know she's listening, but not talking.

Mike Banker:

So and, I think we're all kind of that way when we we share our story about what's what's going on. We we don't really pay so much attention to the clock. And so that's always interesting to me that it's, he's so concerned about the clock, and I I just don't understand it. I, anyway, I would just go on and on all night like Connie would would. I think that's my bet.

Mike Banker:

But there's a lot of time going in different church situations. But so that's one. Second one, it's not really detailed, but my father-in-law, he's he'll say things like, do you remember January 14, 1974 at 10 AM?

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

No. I mean, the answer is no. I don't. But he, like, records things, you know, down to the now his last name is Schleicher, you know, German. He's very fond of saying I'm I'm German.

Mike Banker:

So I guess that's part of being German, but, it's very strange. I've never met anybody that actually records their events down to the minute in their mind, like some recording. But, yeah. So it's a

Connie Smith:

So that that would make him what?

Mike Banker:

He's very time warranted.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Alright.

Mike Banker:

Very time worth. And your third one? I'm not sure okay. Well, I have several different ones, but, well, it's a I was training Safe Helpers how to teach PR. And I said, you can use my outline, but you have to use your own stories.

Mike Banker:

But, they would tell their story, but it would go on and on and on and on and on and on. It was supposed to be an example to make a point when you're teaching, but it just would go on and on. So I put a a clock on them. I said, you can share you must use your own stories, but you have to share it in 3 minutes. So but so, anyway, I don't, I was trying to decide if they're just event oriented and and the story or if it was more that you can't tell a short story because you're Chinese.

Mike Banker:

I don't know if that's the case. But, anyway, I I put a clock on them. That's unusual for me, though, because I don't usually put clocks on people. But yeah. And, is that is that my third one?

Mike Banker:

I think so. Right? Yes.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm. Alrighty, John. Very good very good evidence for what what you're saying. So, it seems to me like, we've got this pretty well settled, and you're also, in your illustrations, have, chosen things that show that they are potential for conflict.

Vivian:

I'm not Connie Connie, I have a I have a I have a question. It's more like it's not a question. It's more like I will, I wanna listen to your comment. So one day, I was talking to a sister. I was mentioning that, oh, I supposed to have a morning meeting with Mike, and he forgot about that.

Vivian:

And that happened a couple of times, and I was fine with it. And the sister sounds like she was offended by this behavior, and and she comment Mhmm. She commented saying, oh, this is very unprofessional.

Connie Smith:

Yes.

Vivian:

And, and, she thinks so you mentioned that this is this you know, whether it's sinful. You know? And then according to this is her, this sounds very offensive, and this sounds like, oh, you know, you're not showing respect to your work. You're not showing respect to the other person. It's it's really bad.

Vivian:

It's not good. But I was quite shocked. Like, I I don't think so. It's just, you know, people make mistakes, and that's okay. And I wanna hear your comment.

Vivian:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Thank you. Well, in the the first place, it was really none of her business, but that's beside the point. Just because someone offends us, we are not required to be offended. Okay? Also, here was a clear case.

Connie Smith:

When you hear the word professional, what do you think of? Time or event When you think of the word, she is a professional.

Vivian:

Time.

Connie Smith:

Absolutely. Because professionals, basically, come from a time oriented cultures. Okay? And, therefore, a profession someone whatever profession they are, they dress it. They work it.

Connie Smith:

They use the right vocabulary. They and nothing else enters in. You don't have things like grace and mercy and and tolerance and all of those kind of things. Professional, you do it by the book. Okay.

Connie Smith:

So that's all this was was a was a conflict. She saw professional. This was not professional. Okay. That's all.

Mike Banker:

So I have a new way to use the word professional. I'm a professional storyteller. There

Connie Smith:

you go. With this woman, however

Mike Banker:

Just start their time.

Connie Smith:

Just just to go back, If this woman felt offended, then what must she do?

Vivian:

He needs to accuse and forgive.

Connie Smith:

There you go. You see? It sounds so simple. Yeah. Not simplistic.

Vivian:

Yeah. It is also Yeah. It's funny that it doesn't sound like a simple thing to me, but it sounds quite, you know, at least inappropriate. I don't know if if it's simple to her.

Connie Smith:

So But And it

Vivian:

seems to be quite

Connie Smith:

yeah. Again, I used the wrong word sinful. Okay? The orientation and this is where what happens. The orientation of a person is not sinful.

Connie Smith:

If that orientation causes

Mike Banker:

hurt

Connie Smith:

or harm to somebody else, that's the sin that that by doing x, y, or z, I hurt this person, and I need forgiveness.

Vivian:

What about this what about this woman's out? Oh, I feel disrespected. I feel hurt. You hurt my kid.

Connie Smith:

Then she needs to accuse for that. Okay. Okay?

Mike Banker:

Hey. Thanks, Stone, for having so much grace with me. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

You must be featured there.

Mike Banker:

That's right. I was teasing.

Connie Smith:

But, you see, we have to get past the idea. There there's 2 things. Well, there's a number of things. But up an orientation, you can still walk righteously and have a have on the continuation anywhere. But if you caused by your the way you performed, you caused actual hurt or harm to somebody, then the sin is that by what I did or didn't do, I caused this person to be offended.

Connie Smith:

Now I'm sorry. Not that I took too long or I didn't show up or I was late or I forgot. I can say I'm sorry for forgetting, but I'm most sorry that what I did hurt you or offended you. So I ask you for your forgiveness for for this offense to you. It was not my intention to offend because I honor and value you.

Connie Smith:

But what I did hurt you, and for that, I'm very sorry. You see, that's not saying I sinned against you by what I did or didn't do. I mean, I forgot. Okay? But I am sorry that I what I did hurt you to the point that you were offended.

Vivian:

Yeah. It yeah. I think this is from the observation of the phenomenon, in China. People are talking, oh, people are getting very sensitive. They got easily offended.

Vivian:

They they they feel heard just because this this one is doing something different from the way I do. Right. And, it caused lots of, like, tension, you know Yes. In relationships. And

Connie Smith:

As I said, just because people offend us doesn't mean that we have to be offended. It's a choice on our part. Always a choice on our part.

Vivian:

Yeah. And nowadays, it just sounds like people are looking to be offended.

Carmen:

Oh, hey.

Connie Smith:

Tell me about it.

Donna Marcue:

I have

Connie Smith:

a I I have a question. Thank you, Stone, for bringing that up because that, By the

Connie Smith:

way, that that topic will be brought back up when we do, the careful casual Okay. Under the preparing one. Go ahead and ask your question. I'm sorry.

Connie Smith:

Oh, thank you. Because I being a member care person, I come into contact with, well, personalities. And, this is a case where exactly like that. A person, who is in our okay. This person was extremely offended by another person who was late and used the same language.

Connie Smith:

That's what Stone was saying.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

Who does he think he is? Is that a professional? That is an I feel totally disrespected. I'm such a busy person, and I sat there and, you know, the person would just they never showed up. And, and so and I never wanna deal with this person again because I I I mean, just, like, very quickly wrote this person off.

Connie Smith:

And so, now I can say that this person is is burnt out because this person has very little capacity for grace. And so, sorry?

Connie Smith:

No grace and no mercy.

Connie Smith:

No grace, no mercy, and very self righteous.

Connie Smith:

Right.

Connie Smith:

And so and so now I'm in the middle. And now because this person doesn't wanna work with that person, so I have to now my work is now doubled because now I've gotta be the person who, instead of going directly to this other person to work together, now I have to be that person. So what do you you know, I told

Connie Smith:

you that we could We could talk a lot of time on how to handle these problems. Okay? And that's kinda what this last 4 days are going to be. Okay. Basically, very simply in this one, the person who is holding the grudge and who has written another person off needs to get his act together and get his own self right before god.

Connie Smith:

Yep. I know that.

Vivian:

K?

Connie Smith:

But that is between them and god. Now where do you come in? You can force the issue. You can say, let's I've got my own work. I can't carry you too.

Connie Smith:

So you and god get this straightened out, get this person forgiven, and let's get on with the work at hand. I know that's not very Asian. Okay? But if you've been in Asia long enough, you will have a way of which that comes across, just that.

Carmen:

Yeah. The person

Connie Smith:

does feel that that forgiveness was already given. But you know, knowing from PR, I know if you keep bringing something up, you have not forgiven that person.

Connie Smith:

So forgiven, but you haven't accused and let go. So, therefore, you haven't

Carmen:

let God good one.

Connie Smith:

You haven't let god give you the justice. You're hanging on to your own, thinking you can get it better than god. So but that that again, you can only teach. You can only talk to if you see a brother overtaken in a fault, you're to go to him in gentleness and kindness and truth, but it doesn't say what you're to do if that brother doesn't accept it. And what you do is you just give him back to God and say, okay.

Connie Smith:

Then I will do the extra work.

Connie Smith:

That's kind of what's happened.

Connie Smith:

Well There you go.

Carmen:

See, you you

Connie Smith:

didn't even need my input.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. Well,

Vivian:

on on this note, it's, it's kinda like what, Connie mentioned. You know? When I listen to the record, it's like time is a resources. You know? It's time is precious.

Vivian:

You know? Like, I don't wanna waste time. So, yeah, all of us have limited time. We just give time and attention and energy to the things that we think we need to focus on. If you like people so easily being offended, you know, so so hard to work with some of them.

Vivian:

Yeah, just rather move on. You know? Focus on the people who really called to be you know, to serve and to help. And

Connie Smith:

And one of the things that you're beginning to get ahold of is that people are not necessarily bad. They are just of a different orientation, and you have to have the grace and the mercy to allow them, I won't even say it, to be the bad guy and leave it to them and god. Sometimes you're in a position and god says, okay. You're gonna be the channel. The last 2 weeks around here, my saying was I felt like I've just put it been putting out fires.

Connie Smith:

Well, then it came to me. Nope. It was god putting out lots of fires these last 2 weeks, but he used me as the fire hose. And I have made a lot of mistakes because, I was so busy being the fire hose that I lost a lot of grace and mercy along the way. Okay?

Connie Smith:

But some people, you can't help because they don't know they need help. Or if they know they need help, they don't want help. And so you offer what you can offer because you see that their orientation is causing them to have conflict. And we as leaders of any anything and we are the leaders of most anything that we are in contact with. Okay.

Connie Smith:

That sounds pompous. But in reality, god uses us, does he not? No matter if we're dealing with 1 person or a crowd because people are seeing us. They are hearing us. And so if we can come, one of the things I feel that a study like this does, tools like this, is that it helps us to offer grace and mercy rather than judgment.

Connie Smith:

Does that help? Sometimes you can go and beat your head against the wall. And god says, okay. Go beat your head against the wall because at least then they would have had a witness amongst them. But nothing's gonna come of it.

Connie Smith:

And when you've done what god asked you to do, let it go. And if you have to step into the gap, then god will give you the strength and grace and mercy and whatever else you might need to step into that extra work because you can't fix it. Does that help any? Okay. Alright.

Connie Smith:

Now I am under a great, time constraint myself this morning since I have to get through a whole another continuum in the time that's left. Okay? This was all good. But in my marking in my head, because I'm not time enough to write it all down, this has been, almost half an hour longer than I had allotted it. Okay.

Connie Smith:

I don't say that it was bad to have done that. I don't think it was anything negative about it. I think we all gained from everything that was done this morning so far, but now it does push me. Alright. So let's go down the list and let's see where people are.

Connie Smith:

Gala has said that she's a 13, but she's not talking to us. So just know that she's a 13, which would put her, in the category of a score of 11 to 16, which 13 would come in there, you are definitely dichotomistic in orientation. At the high end of this score, you are becoming prone to excessive structure or to being opinionated. Now 13 is not at the high end, so we're not saying she's that. But that's where it's tending.

Connie Smith:

Alright. So we wanna go down the the list, and let's see where people are.

Mike Banker:

K. So, I'm at, 11.

Connie Smith:

Alright. So 11 puts you the bottom end of 11 to 16 Mhmm. In which you are definitely dichotomistic in orientation. And at the high end of the score, you are becoming prone to excessive structure or being opinionated.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm. Yeah. Nobody would ever say that to me. Stone, go ahead. What's your score?

Vivian:

I'm very much close to you. I'm 10. Alright.

Connie Smith:

Okay. That leaves you as, definite you're 10? Okay. So you're at the high end of beginning to show signs of a dichotomistic orientation. You're approaching a dichotomistic orientation as you get nearer to the upper end of the score.

Connie Smith:

So if you are 10, you're at the upper end of the score. So you may be a mixture of both dichotomist and holism, which is what most all of us are. But Mhmm. Still tend to put more towards one than the other. Alright?

Mike Banker:

Next one, Donna.

Connie Smith:

We can't hear you. I'm 14.

Mike Banker:

14. Okay.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So 14 puts you into the 11 to 16 right in the middle of that. You're definitely a dichotomous in orientation. Okay.

Mike Banker:

Okay. And let's see. Next is, Michelle.

Vivian:

Think I'm 9.

Connie Smith:

9? Okay. So you are beginning to show signs of dichotomistic, which means that you are still mostly event. Okay? Oh, isn't it?

Connie Smith:

But you are approaching a dichotomistic orientation as you get nearer the upper end.

Vivian:

I do notice that I'm changing as I get older.

Vivian:

Okay. I

Connie Smith:

say you're changing as becoming more mellow, and you're coming more towards the center.

Mike Banker:

Okay. Carmen?

Carmen:

I'm 6. I'm holism.

Connie Smith:

Okay. And I would say that's pretty close to what I've seen so far, and you will see why I say that. Very good. So people will tend to see you as unsure of yourself and vague when in fact you are still filling in the picture in your mind. And one of the biggest prob well, we'll get there.

Connie Smith:

You are good at creating ideas of what needs to be done, but you are unable to bring them to pass because you can't get ahold of the details. And we'll talk about all of that in a moment. Alright?

Mike Banker:

So next is, Vivian.

Connie Smith:

8. So 8 makes you, the 6 to 10, you are beginning to show signs of dichotomistic orientation. So you're moving more towards the middle, more towards the center. As this and, you all have to remember that these are not absolutes. Not absolutes.

Connie Smith:

Okay? But what they are is an indication of what side or another you're trending towards. Neither side is right or wrong, and neither side is good or bad. They're just things that are. We can be righteous dichotomous.

Connie Smith:

We can be righteous wholeness. K?

Mike Banker:

So, Fanny, the scale seems to be skewed towards, dichotomous.

Connie Smith:

Yes. And, I was not privy to exactly why this is so, though the break point you see, I would interpret this, but I didn't make up this. But I would interpret anything. The closer you get to that center mark, the closer you get, the the further you get from 12, 12 and further, and less, you're trending towards holism. 13 and above, you're trending towards dichotomy.

Connie Smith:

I noticed the word I used, tending towards.

Mike Banker:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

So by the time that's the way I would interpret this course.

Mike Banker:

Okay. So, Cindy, I guess you're the last one.

Connie Smith:

12. 12? Okay. Okay. So 12, she's kinda right in the middle.

Connie Smith:

And she would have all of this from 1 to 12. She's coming further and further from being off the chart holistic, which is not good. And she's trending more and more towards the middle, towards being more dichotomistic than the 2. But she is not yet dichotomistic. She is trending towards the middle.

Mike Banker:

Okay. So, Connie, how about you?

Connie Smith:

Well, I would disagree with mine. I tend to be a 5. Okay?

Mike Banker:

K.

Connie Smith:

But perhaps it's because, and this is why some of you are having struggles with where you scored, is that I might be as far towards holism as a 5. But when I became but I am in control of myself, so I can become, not I can become. I can act out of any of the levels. I can adapt.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

And I'm thinking in my mind that this is that these things that I scored here, and I'm sure this was with all of you, but I'm so I'm trying to explain that, is that according to the score, I'm that far towards holism, but I don't I don't behave out of that. I don't behave as a 5 because everything is extenuating circumstances. Depending on the circumstances, depending on what's needed, I can adapt to that. I, well, I'll I'll I'll say it now because I started it. But I think what I see in myself is that I am very goal driven.

Connie Smith:

Now that goal that goal may be working with every step of the way with Vivian until she gets everything in her life that the Holy Spirit brings to mind completed. Okay. That might be my the goal that I'm reaching for. And in because this is my highest and it's really not in this this, this tool. But my my goal is what drives how I behave.

Connie Smith:

And I can become act out, let's put it that way. I can act out of anywhere on it in order if it serves me in reaching my goal. And I'm sure there are a number of you that are that same way. It took me a while in an understanding how this all applied to me to get to that point of understanding of myself. Why I can be this way or that way or some other way or work forward.

Connie Smith:

But I realized I can do what it takes to accomplish whatever goal is in mind. So if some of you are having that kind of thing. So this says, I mean, I I really don't think that people see me as unsure of myself.

Mike Banker:

No. Everybody can agree at that statement. No. Raise your hand.

Connie Smith:

And I don't think that that people will say I'm too vague.

Mike Banker:

Oh, yes. You're so vague, Connie.

Connie Smith:

Okay. So, anyway, I think I think that is what ex explains why I feel that I'm really all over the place is that I have identified what it is that I'm after in any given thing. I can talk to you all night if my goal is to be sure that you understand what I'm trying to say. But once I feel that you've got it, then I can let it go and move on. But, anyway, that was not in defense of myself.

Connie Smith:

Okay? I'm trying to explain why some of us feel that we're kind of all over the place and can do. There are times when you do nearly all of them. So today, we're going to be talking about what it means basically to be a dichotomist or a holist, which way you tend to be. So dichotomy and holism and, again, you can read most of this for yourself.

Connie Smith:

But it has to do with the way people divide up the world around them both physically and mentally. And the extreme dichotomous divides the world into 2 parts. It's either black or it's white. There's no gray. It's either right or it's wrong.

Connie Smith:

There's no mercy or grace. The whole list sees for a whole list. He doesn't see anything to divide. And that is well, we'll talk about that later. Okay.

Connie Smith:

So dichotomy. Those of us who have an orientation towards dichotomy want to categorize people and things. We want to focus on the part, not the whole. That's why we don't want the whole sermon. We just want the outline of the points.

Connie Smith:

Of course, the godly way is the 3 points, but that's beside the point. We tend to think in term terms of absolutes. We do not understand people who are neutral. People must make a clear choice is what we say. We don't mix work and play.

Carmen:

I I

Connie Smith:

remember one time we were home on furlough. We were driving across the states, and, of course, Richard and I are still talking about language and problems that we encountered and how to solve them and so along. Teresa was about 6, and she leans forward in the car and says, well, when I grow up, I'm going to be a linguist. I'm gonna be a bible translator, but I'm not gonna talk about it all the time. And Eric, who is 5, he pops his head forward, and he says, well, when I grow up, I'm not gonna be a bible translator because I like vacations.

Connie Smith:

That gives a little indication on where we were. Okay. We tend to moralize and judge other people according to our code. We usually present our message, advice, and help to non Americans in ways that have been obviously modified by American worldview, and this is why we are either mostly mostly held at arm's length in the rest of the world other than those who want something from us. But we're held at arm's length because it's usually our way or because that's the only right way.

Connie Smith:

Of course. Oh, got lots of stories on that too, but okay. The Matzah, people that we worked with organized much of their life along dichotomistic lines. They had clear distinctions between the work men did and the work women did. And in their communal house, they had a man's door and a woman's door.

Connie Smith:

I mean, they had one big, huge house, and everybody in the village lived in that house. But the women had their door, and the men had their door. The men, we'll talk some more about that other illustrations. And the world was composed of this says of of, which are real people versus foreigners, but they it was really between people and all of those not knowing how to do anything once. The first term they gave us was term that would equivalent to our boogeyman, and they frightened their children with us.

Connie Smith:

But these were people who knew nothing about the outside. They had never even seen paper. Even their language reflected a dichotomistic bend. They did not have a three way, you know, past, present, or future. We talked about this yesterday.

Connie Smith:

But the time, the time that an event took place was not crucial. But it was whether it was seen or unseen or whether you were an eyewitness or whether it was told to you or whether it was just hearsay. Now all of these things are important because which one of those tenses are you going to use when you're translating, the books of of, the the the 5 books of the, of the Old Testament? You know? Yeah.

Connie Smith:

You have to make some decision. Okay. So now holism, those of us who have an orientation towards holism focus on the whole, not the pieces, but the whole. So other people may think we are vague and uncommitted because we do not like to be categorized. We do not make categories for things.

Connie Smith:

We see patterns and shapes, but often we are blind to the individual pieces. In the world of art, abstract and impressionistic painting is an expression of holism. The Matzah organized life in very dichotomous, but information I say they organized their lives very dichotomistically, but information was passed on in the form of stories, a holistic form of presentation. Teaching was not done through precept or command, but through stories that had morals. There's a story there's a section of scripture when Jesus is asked, who is my neighbor?

Connie Smith:

And Jesus did not make a list of the characteristics of what makes up a neighbor, but he told a story out of and he never gave a conclusion. Now the would have just soaked up that beautifully, but the dichotomist is saying saying is still saying. And what was the point of that story? So the one thing that we as as safe helpers or we as the one who's trying to communicate need to understand is that we're going to have to help dichotomous fit his pieces into the whole of his life. A dichotomous can take a little verse here and a little verse there and a little verse somewhere else, and that means this and that means this and that means this.

Connie Smith:

And now I have 4 sermons to teach because even though they're all talking about forgiveness, they're all different. So I have to teach on each one. The holist, he sees that, and he says, holism. Oh goodness. Well, holism is and he goes into a long story and you have now if you're talking about what do I have against somebody, we have to take that holism who says, I just hate him.

Connie Smith:

Well, why? What is it that you have against him? And you have to help them pick out the pieces. For the dichotomy, for the dichotomous, you have to help him find how this word hate, how, he did this to me and he did this to me and he did this to me and he did this to me. Well but what is the common thread in those things?

Connie Smith:

What is the piece that makes all of these hurt so much? Well, in every one of these cases, he was disrespectful. Okay. Then what is it that you have against him? Well, one of the things I have against him is that he continues to disrespect me.

Connie Smith:

Oh, so I don't have to go through every instance in a person's life when I was disrespected by this person. I began to see that all of these are simply the same thing I have against. These are all just expressions of that. So these kind of things are important to know of what our job is. The stories had very clear parts.

Connie Smith:

A beginning, an episode by location, and ending, and sometimes a moral. That would be what we did what we found in, in, 1 year in this Moroccan course or this study of semester broad course. Because we were such a large group, we were not welcome because we had to register with the police and everything. We were such a large group that year. And everybody was afraid, so none of the nationals would take it any of us into their homes and so on.

Connie Smith:

So we did our language study outside, and we brought in a couple of of Moroccans. And we all lived kind of together. And Richard taught no. Richard told the Moroccans what to teach and how to go about it. And it was very, very interesting because they learned more that way than they did in the past going to language school because it was taught in context.

Connie Smith:

And it's just very interesting. But when so we he started out with a story, and then we built grammar stuff on that story. So the story got expanded and so on and so forth. But when it came to almost every time when it came to a definition of something like what is a good man, it always went to a story. It always went to a story in Ethiopia.

Connie Smith:

The good man, he never made a list. He said, there once was a man in Asmara who took in children and gave them food and clothing and made them family and sent them to ed for education. And he went on on that and there came a time when he used up all of his money and he died. And to this day, they have a celebration for this man, for all that he did for the people. That was it.

Connie Smith:

Very, very interesting. In Morocco, they, in the Arabic Moroccan Arabic, the story always had a beginning, an episode by location, and then ending. And then at the most of the time at the end, there was a moral. So they did tell you what that story was about. It was even in a different standard.

Connie Smith:

Very, very interesting. Alright.

Carmen:

So let's

Connie Smith:

go on here. So people who are concerned with dichotomy like to categorize people and things to focus on the part, not the whole. For instance, there's a focus on individual elements. We would say that they are field depend independent. So when they're they're looking at whatever, they see the trees, the individual trees, but they fail to see that these trees together make a forest.

Connie Smith:

Their focus is on this tree and this tree and this tree, not understanding how it gets to be forest. They just, let's see. They break a whole picture into clear parts. They maintain focus despite distractions, And they can think about a part by itself, but they cannot think about a part in its relationship to the whole. Let's see.

Connie Smith:

Can you still hear me? Am I doing alright? I I can never figure out where my where my, microphone really is. So, anyway, it's hard to look, read sideways and look at connect with your eyes. Okay?

Connie Smith:

So, anyway, they can maintain focus despite distractions. They can think about a part by itself. They can divide without compromise. It's me versus them. It's here versus there.

Connie Smith:

Many cultures. Many cultures, are polarizing like that. The me versus them. In a relationship society, this is problem. It's that everybody who is in the me group or the us group, we relate to and anybody outside that group is the enemy.

Connie Smith:

And we've banded together our network. By the way, one of our participants in the course ran out couldn't do any of the, case studies that she had set out to do for her independent research paper. And so she decided to see how many people that were in a network and in the network of the family that finally took her in to stay with them. How many people in this one place, this one contact, how many people can I relate to out of that? And she had the names and relationships of 3,500 people that she had access to because of this one contact that had accepted her into that network.

Connie Smith:

Now the constraint becomes that she could not make a friend outside of that network because that would be, betrayal of this group. This group was not satisfying enough, so you have to go somewhere else. Oh, that's a host host. Very, very, very interesting. Okay.

Connie Smith:

A economist tends to evaluate people, ideas, and things is right or wrong, good or bad, godly or not godly. Let's see if there's a we have a good story about that. Anyway, we'll we'll come back to that. Works well with computer. A dichotomous tends to work well with a computer because the computer has limits.

Connie Smith:

If the computer is unless the computer is viewed as the enemy, of course, then nobody gets to it. But a computer is easily understood because it's technology which has rules. And if you follow step 1, 2, 3, you're gonna get where you're gonna go. But you deviate from that and all is lost, so you concentrate on getting it right. And, a whole list has a very hard time trying to keep it all straight because they see the whole thing.

Connie Smith:

Okay. They're com the the dichotomist yes. The dichotomist is can be is very committed to what they perceive as right and therefore and must be right to be satisfied with themselves. Now that also comes under a bit under careful casual. But, you're so committed to to the right that you perceive as the right that you want to be right.

Connie Smith:

And if you found that you're wrong, it's very, very, very upsetting because your world kinda kinda gets messed up because you don't have a category for that. And this again is the thing in working with the dichotomous. You have to give them time to put new information into a slot in which it belongs. Sometimes they have to create new slots. The problem with dealing with a whole list is that they don't have any slots.

Connie Smith:

So they're trying to put all this information into one big hole and therefore w h o l e. And therefore, it becomes just a mass of overwhelmingness. So a dichotomous classifies and then organizes even their experiences and concepts. And security comes when everybody and everything fits into their own right category, fits into the system. So let's see.

Connie Smith:

I do this Richard and I both kind of did this, categorizing of of of people. When a we had a new, hurting one, one of the questions that we would ask at the beginning is, what church do you go to? Now we didn't care really what church they went to. But in finding out what church they went to, we could kind of understand where they were coming from in their beliefs about scripture and God and about their religion, so to speak. If they go to this denomination that we know is Pentecostal, we know that what their views are gonna kinda be.

Connie Smith:

And if if they're one of these others, you know what their views are gonna kinda be. And, so we can work within that and utilizing that, which is we can use and letting go of that, which is just rough. Doesn't have any meaning. Let's see. The dichotomist is very committed to right and anything less than wrong.

Connie Smith:

Anything less is wrong is what I'm trying to say. Therefore, they're very tend to be judgmental. Security equals a fit for everything. Australian in the early days would kill a stranger because they didn't fit into the kinship system. Anybody that they couldn't relate to as a kin or know what kin they belong to, what kinship they belong to, this avoided all chaos.

Connie Smith:

If you're with this, our enemy is with you, so you might be killed anyway. But if you're belong to one of the us groups, then we can let you fit in. But in order not to have confusion and chaos and, just for safety's sake, you kill off that which doesn't fit. Chatino Group in Mexico, I hope we had a little bit to do with. They divided food into hot foods and cold foods, which never made a lick of sense until you understood what they considered to be hot and what they considered to be cold, which had nothing whatsoever to do with temperature.

Connie Smith:

In the console people, the bad versus good versus good versus bad, was by item. Each thing was judged as being a good thing or a bad thing. And, here's a piece I don't know if you have ever read anything by Jamie Buckingham. But one of the books he wrote was called risky living. Jamie Buckingham is a very interesting writer.

Connie Smith:

He's a definitely a believer, pilot, and all that. And this is what he, the story that he tells, in his book called risky living. Both mother and daddy are very orderly persons. Daddy's workshop behind the house is as well appointed and organized as a surgical clinic. Every tool has its special place.

Connie Smith:

All the nails have been sorted according to size and shape and put in separate glass jars. The same is true with nuts, bolts, washers, and screws. Tons of paint are labeled and sealed. Bits of string and wire are carefully wrapped and kept separate. The floor is spotlessly clean.

Connie Smith:

Inside the house, things are the same. Mother's pantry is better organized than the grocery store. Clothes in the closet are on hangers all spread 2 fingers apart. Things in the drawers are neatly folded. There is no dirt under the carpets and no dust on top of the window sills.

Connie Smith:

They live a very ordered, regulated life, rising at the same hour each morning and going to bed at the same hour each night. They have lived this way for years. And even today, I know if I visit their house, I will find the whisk broom hung on the same nail in the same closet where it hung 30 years ago. I thought of the trip to Rochester. Mother insisted that they take along their breakfast bran and canned prune juice, which had been their breakfast diet often supplemented with fresh fruit for the last 20 years.

Connie Smith:

She also packed their pillows. A definite, definite example of what? Dichotomy or holism? Dichotomy. Absolutely.

Connie Smith:

Absolutely. Beautifully written. Okay. Now let's let's look a bit at holism. Okay.

Connie Smith:

Holistic people are concerned, with the whole. Parts only have importance as they relate to the whole. They are concerned with patterns and configurations, otherwise, groupings and shapes. Meaning comes through the whole picture. They are very field dependent.

Connie Smith:

They see the forest, but they do not pick out the individual trees. They recognize unified holes, do not easily see the pictures, but sees the configurations of things. The communication with others, they use stories, doesn't like to make value judgments, so therefore seems vague. Well, who is my neighbor? Well, I can answer that one day a man.

Connie Smith:

Otherwise, I don't have to come up with a list. I can just tell you the whole of what, neighbor looks like. Things of parallels not apparent to others. I think that one's a very interesting one. Willing to permit contradiction and often seems illogical.

Connie Smith:

Somebody's telling a story, and they get stuck on whether the person was wearing a blue dress or a purple dress, and they worry over that before they can get on with the story when the dress had nothing whatsoever to do with the story would be a dichotomous. But the whole list, they can hear the story, and there can be error in the story that they know about. It doesn't matter a bit. It doesn't matter if the word that I'm reading if the word is spelled wrong, that doesn't matter. The thing that matters is the story and what that story tells them.

Connie Smith:

I have a hard time even turning off what I would consider an uninteresting or a bad movie because all these little details, I can let go. I can even let go of language and and some of this other stuff because I wanna know what the story is and how the story ends. And, I'm not saying that that is a good thing. I'm saying as a as a more holist, tending towards holism, I can things that other people would say scripture contradicts itself or something we don't understand. And I tell you the hardest thing the hardest thing to translate as a bible translator where you can't do adding a whole lot of your own stuff, the hardest thing to translate are scriptures that are ambiguous because you have to translate them ambiguously.

Connie Smith:

You can't add your interpretation. If you do, you are not translating scripture. You are interpreting scripture. Okay? So a whole list can pass over these kind of apparent contradictions, particularly if they believe that the word of God is the word of God and he has protected everything that we need to know in it.

Connie Smith:

Okay? And, therefore, I can say, I don't know what that means, and God hasn't seemed fit to tell me. So I just have to go with what it says. And that's okay because it all fits into the into the big picture. The little details don't matter.

Connie Smith:

A whole host has a very, very hard time dealing with a bible verse. They are much more likely to need to deal with the whole passage where the dichotomist can write books about 1 verse. But the the the holiest really can't do that. They can incorporate that verse into the passage they are discussing and make good meaning out of it within the context. Very interesting.

Connie Smith:

Okay. They're, a whole a a a and a holist, is concerned with the parts only as they relate to the whole in a meaningful way. If the part doesn't fit, it's dismissed. If it doesn't fit this into the story, it can just be dismissed because the story, the event is what matters. When the parts are dealt with, without regard for the whole, frustration results and results in throwing out everything.

Connie Smith:

Satisfaction comes from integrating the thought in life. That's why do a lot of stories. And it's very hard to say, I picked this. I looked at this situation, and I picked out this point, this point, and this point. Most all of you most all of you had enough hold as a menu and that you told the story, not just made the point.

Connie Smith:

Very good. But you were not the you were demonstrating holism, not demonstrating dichotomy Even though we might have preferred dichotomy in order to get through it all in a in a shorter amount of time, but it would not be as satisfying to the whole group because it's those stories that brought the meaning, not the point. Okay? So while dichotomy needs time to reshape or reorganize the universe before they can integrate new or radical information, if others push for a fast decision, they will play it safe and fall back to the old position. If a dichotomous cannot make it fit, the answer is no, whether you're trying to make a new point or whatever.

Connie Smith:

If it doesn't fit and they don't have and they're not allowed time to find a category where it fits or to make a new category to put it in, their answer will be no or rejection. I'm the thing. Very this is very timely when you're dealing with people, is it not? And you're trying to get them to do or both or or change a thought or or teach a new concept too that you've got to give the whole the dichotomous time to get it organized so they can hang on to it. Then after they you've given them the time for that, then you have to give them time and you have to usually help them see how all of that now, all these categories that we talked about fit back into the whole.

Connie Smith:

Now the whole list people are great at seeing the overall picture and creating vision. However, they need others who can control the pieces or the steps in developing their vision because they've got they've got the the vision in mind, and they can see it very clearly and all the pieces of it. But they cannot take apart those pieces to be dealt with 1 piece at a time, and that's where they need the help of the safe helper or the one that's trying to communicate. No matter where we stand on the continuum, these are the things that we have to adapt our presentation to if we're going to have success in our communication of that. So here are some more, illustrations.

Connie Smith:

An American is particular at stake. That is a word, by the way. Peculiaristic. Yeah. Otherwise, particular.

Connie Smith:

They're very precise. You want details. They want linear sequence. They want sequential ordering. Then then trees are important.

Connie Smith:

Seems nitpicking, the American, because they want all of pieces with interest in trivial things. And so this is why the trivial gay the game called trivia why trivia games are really, really fascinating to Americans. The Filipino and the Ethiopian like to see the forest. They want the general feel and appearance, and they like to translate stories for literacy but hate checking the correctness of the translation. Their details are not important until they cause the whole to be different enough to be noticed.

Connie Smith:

The Naga people, we we did this interview with, a man from Nagaland. He was a Naga himself, who was, in seminary here in the States. And we had some really good times with him. So, they are from the area used to be called Burma. Now it's called, what, Myanmar or something like that.

Connie Smith:

Anyway, if you have you know, he's taught in seminary this 3 points, 3 point sermon. That's why I made a joke about it earlier. But the 3 points are important in virtually any seminary around that you have 3 points to a sermon. He was struggling, really struggling. So we asked him, well, if you had 3 points to teach, how would you handle it?

Connie Smith:

He would say we would have 3 sermons. You just can't combine these things. Now the American preacher has 3 points, and stories are discouraged unless they're tied to a point and short, and then they become illustrations rather than stories, which are different. The purpose is different between a story and an illustration. So the story does not overshadow the facts.

Connie Smith:

So stories are American. Stories are discouraged unless tied to a point and short and illustrative so that the story does not overshadow the facts. Now I I say that you may have a fact that you want to present or a point that you're trying to make or praise item that you're trying to share. But unless you know some of the details and that the story would give you, you cannot rejoice at to the same extent just by hearing that I got the notes I needed right at the moment I needed them. Now that's a fact.

Connie Smith:

Okay. But, man, if you understood what I went through and the atmosphere around me when all this was going on. And I was had I knew we'd had those notes, and I could not find them anywhere to the point that I sent out prayer requests that god would either help me come up with all of this stuff that I've been reading you or else help me find those notes. And the morning, yesterday morning, I was texted those notes. Now unless you knew all that story, you could not rejoice with me and see how god had my back, which to me put an absolute seal of his on this teaching to this group of people.

Connie Smith:

All to you is what yeah. God answered another prayer. Now that would be enough for a true dichotomist, but it's not enough for me. And it's not enough for me to try to share with you just that point. You needed to know what was behind that.

Connie Smith:

So you can see I have a hard time being short to the point. We've held many, many, many, many different kinds of positions. And, one very, very large church That was the one. God, used Richard in this case since women don't have any importance, but he used Richard, to help develop their missions program. Okay.

Connie Smith:

Well, one of the things that they were had done and that that, was told was that 2 people had been sent out to India, to a conference. The one, Sterling, and the the it so they they were both speakers at this conference is why they were out there. That's what it was. They were both speakers at this conference, and, everything was recorded for this whole conference and by by speaker. And Sterling Sterling was one of these people persons, and he was relating to the people, and he was telling stories, and he was so on.

Connie Smith:

And Jim, who was one of the other speakers, he was very dichotomistic, and he he gave, clearly and deeply with deep, heavy meat. So afterwards afterwards, the there were two lines. They were selling these tapes out in front of this big conference center, and there were two lines. And the ones that had Sterling's tapes was a really, really, really long line. And the one that sent that, where Jim had with with his recording of his, talk, Just very, very, very few people in it.

Connie Smith:

Most of them were westerners. Very interesting. Evidently, at least at that conference, most of the people tended towards holism. Jesus, versus the law is that the law is very dichotomistic. Right?

Connie Smith:

It's a rule. It's short, sweet to the point. Thou shalt not or thou shalt. 1 of the 2. But Jesus, he didn't his approach in fulfilling the law was not to give us another rule, but to give us a principle by which to follow.

Connie Smith:

So he says, the old, the the the law says thou shalt not kill. But I tell you, don't even hate don't even hate your brother so much that you hatred means you wish him dead. So don't even go there. Don't wish anybody harm. Don't have hatred towards someone.

Connie Smith:

He said, the law says thou shalt not commit adultery. And Jesus says, well, that's true. That's right. But I tell you this, that if you even look at a woman with lust in your heart, You have committed the adultery. So the dichotomist is one who sets the rules where a wholist tends to look at a principle.

Connie Smith:

Now was Jesus dichotomy, or was he holistic? Well, basically, he was both because he was everything. But in in these cases that I his presentation was that of of a holist. Okay? Yeah.

Connie Smith:

I said his presentation. I didn't say he suddenly threw away all of his dichotomy and became a pure holist. No. But his presentation was out of a holist, and they all got the point. In art, Dutch painters, for instance, Rembrandt and well, I don't know that he was, but Van Gogh certainly was or Van Gogh or however you say it, Painters, are very, versus the modern impressionistic painters.

Connie Smith:

The Dutch tend to be or or the the old painters old Dutch painters tend to be very precise. It was like painting a photograph. And the closer you could get to, to the realism, the better painter you were considered. But modern impressionistics is more for the the the holist side in which it's just there, and you may not even know what the purpose of the painting is until you read the title, and then you still don't know what that means because you can't see it in there. But, everybody's left to their own impression of what all this is.

Connie Smith:

Both are good. Both are enjoyable, and both just feed an artist's heart. There's nothing wrong with being tend towards dichotomy, and there's nothing wrong with tending towards wholism. Then there's a bunch of, contrast. And do you have a page in yours that is a page?

Connie Smith:

And on the bottom, it says that, by the permission of Don Lawser. Did did you did you do those? Do you have that? Mhmm. Okay.

Connie Smith:

Those are, he's he's gone to great lengths to work those out at at each at each continuum. So I would encourage you very, very much to to try to to decipher that little tiny writing, but it took the little tiny writing in order to get it all on one page. And I thought he did a remarkable job of it because it really is readable. You might need a magnifying glass, but it is readable. So now, we have the time.

Connie Smith:

I have questions we can

Mike Banker:

So, Connie, I he says there's nothing wrong with being, a holist. There's nothing wrong with being a dichotomist. But my thought was, but there is something wrong if you're not teaching to both.

Connie Smith:

Oh, yes.

Mike Banker:

If we're trying to convey meaning when we teach, we actually have to despite what our our bias is, we have to teach in a way that appeals to both. And so

Connie Smith:

That's right. And very often very often, if you notice if you notice in in Richard's writings

Mike Banker:

Yes.

Connie Smith:

He writes to both because he and when he taught, he did the same thing. He started out giving an overview so that all the dichotomous knew where we were going. And then he he told the store the the information mostly in terms of illustrations and stories. And then he would have a list of what he just taught. And so he was covering all the bases.

Mike Banker:

Right.

Connie Smith:

He was trying to appeal to to everyone. And for the most part, we just simply need to know where we are so that we know what we have to do in adapting. But we have to look at the other guy and see what he is needing in order to present it in a way he can accept it.

Mike Banker:

The second thing is, it seems that, this is maybe it's very general, but it feels like to me that okay. I'm giving away my bent. Right? Okay. It feels like, Greek teaching is very dichotomous, and actually Hebrew teaching is more is more is more holistic.

Mike Banker:

Now let's see. Why am I saying that? I think it has to do with this Jewish idea that you should it's in the struggle with an idea that you know God.

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

And so there's this this kind of there's this kind of tension in whatever is being said or taught. And I suppose it's more a rabbi thing, though, than it is scripture thing, though. But Greek is breaking everything down into bits and pieces and then putting it back together again. And

Connie Smith:

That's it.

Mike Banker:

And so

Connie Smith:

Look at the difference in Paul's writings versus even Peter's writings.

Mike Banker:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

Or more particularly, John's writings.

Mike Banker:

John. I was just thinking John when he said that.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. You take and and you can beautifully outline anything that Paul wrote.

Mike Banker:

Right. If you could follow

Connie Smith:

it. Yeah. Well but that's that's the that is that's the dichotomy.

Mike Banker:

Right.

Connie Smith:

Because he spoke this and this, and it's very all very logical. I don't know what kind of punctuation that they had in have in Greek.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

But Paul, Paul, in the translation of what Paul wrote, it's very important. The punctuation is very, very important. Right. Because you you have to know when something is part of the same sentence and when it's a new point.

Mike Banker:

Right.

Carmen:

Yep.

Connie Smith:

If you notice, the the Psalms, for instance, a good, point here in which most most of the Psalms are written as as doublets in which he's the writer makes a statement, and then he makes another statement, but they are both have the same kind of meaning. And then he makes another statement and another statement. And these 2 are you need to be done together, but they are not 2 separate points. They are one point spoken in 2 in 2 different ways.

Mike Banker:

Now that's that's a method I used a lot when I taught to Chinese students was to try to give at least 2 examples or 2 not examples. 2 ways of saying it because I was concerned about some words didn't exist in the language. So

Connie Smith:

Right.

Mike Banker:

Or or they weren't common in the understanding. So this was a way to try to increase standing. So

Connie Smith:

Yep. Yeah.

Mike Banker:

Okay.

Connie Smith:

I I and we were helping, well, we we trained a set of national translators for them to translate into their own language in in Ethiopia. And they everything that they had had religion wise, Christianity wise, at least, was always done in the national language, which was Amharic. And, here they were trying to translate this for the very first time into their own language, but all of their knowledge was through the Amharic. So I can remember one time them struggling in in the Hadea language. We worked on 2 languages at the same time, not related.

Connie Smith:

Anyway, the Hadea were were working on, the portion where where to have patients. Well and they they are a a a group related people, which we'll talk about later. And so they would pop up with the question, what word's the best word here? And everybody would stop what they were doing, and everybody would think about what a way that they they a word that they could use. And they came to the conclusion.

Connie Smith:

We don't have a word for that in in our language, so we'll have to use the Amharic word. So Richard asked him, well, what about aunt Susie who lives on the other side of the mountain who never went to school, so she never learned Amharic? What would she say? Given this situation right here, what would she say? Oh, there was no problem then.

Connie Smith:

She would say you just gotta swallow your own spit.

Mike Banker:

That's what they say.

Connie Smith:

Out in the field working and you get really, really thirsty and there's no water handy, well, just swallow your own spit and keep working.

Mike Banker:

So that's the definition of patience effectively.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Yeah. There are ways of expressing any concept of scripture. There are ways of explaining that in any language or god would not be fair. And god is fair.

Connie Smith:

And he wants everyone to hear, he is not willing that any should perish. So as we struggle to get people to understand a concept that we're trying to teach them, it's up to us. If you're trying to explain something to your child, it's up to us to figure out how to best communicate that to the child so that the child can receive it. How the person that you're trying to to teach this to, if they're getting the point. When I'm doing a session with someone, I ask the question so many times going as they're working through their life.

Connie Smith:

Right in the middle of of their deciding to forgive somebody, I would say, why would you wanna forgive them? Look at this horrible stuff they did. Why would you want to forgive them? Well, you know, this is after they've had all the teaching already about what extending forgiveness means. Or after they have have forgiven and then they go to to say, and I give up my right to accuse about this anymore.

Connie Smith:

Why in the world would you be able to give up your right to accuse? That's a right you have, to accuse those who have done you wrong. Well, you're looking for the answer because it's been paid for. I already got my justice, so there's nothing left to accuse. Therefore, forgiveness the extending of forgiveness has been complete.

Connie Smith:

I got what I needed. I needed justice, and I needed payback. And so you you're waiting to see what they're going to answer you. And if they don't answer in not in those terms, but with those concepts, then you go back and you say, oh, but what did you mean when you said you forgave? Now, you know, 20, accusations later with a totally number another person with the same hurting one, I might ask one of those questions again.

Connie Smith:

My goal in PR is not just to help the hurting one now, but to make sure they understand the concepts of what they're doing and why they're doing it well enough so that when they leave the session, they can practice that the rest of their life, and they can share it with somebody else. So, therefore, it takes a long time to get through one person's life because it's spent in teaching and making sure that they understand what it is that you're trying to get across. Beginning of truce is one of these kind of things in which you you know, not everybody's gonna hear an absolute straight out flat to, truth after the the, the lie has been destroyed and done away with, and you ask for the truth a truth that he god has for you for this particular piece. They may not have a clue. They didn't have any problem getting rid of the lie, but they can't quite get grasp what it is the truth.

Connie Smith:

So you begin to, for those of us who grew up where you had to pump a well, you sometimes had to pour, some water in in the system to prime the pump. Well, sometimes you have to prime the pump. I remember one young man who had, vision of himself was zilch, but he thought he was a total loser and, unworthy and, and everything. But, he just couldn't come up with anything that he could hear, except a reiteration of another lie. And so I asked him.

Connie Smith:

This was priming the pump. I asked him. He had a 6 year old son that he adored. And so I said, well, what would you say, what how would you we're we're talking about value, worth, so on. What about your son?

Connie Smith:

What would you describe him? Oh, he is the most precious thing that ever lived and on. He can go on and on. And so the question was, how does he become that? Well, I don't know because it certainly didn't come from me.

Connie Smith:

No. This came to him at his creation, blah blah blah blah blah, teaching all that. So then I said, now what kind of a father what kind of a father does a precious little boy have? Any little boy that is precious, what kind of a father would he have had? And he burst into tears.

Connie Smith:

He said, but I'm not precious. And I said, well, then how did you produce a son who was? I'm not talking about behaviors. No. You're not a you're not a precious behavior.

Connie Smith:

You're You made a lots of wrong things, but you yourself, the father of this precious little boy are what? And he just burst into tears. He said a precious little boy has a precious father. Sometimes we have to prime the pump, and we don't often come with that naturally. It's something that we have to learn with practice.

Connie Smith:

One of the things that I did a short, I I was asked by I don't know what group. It was my mentor group, I guess. Anyway, I was asked to do a a short presentation on love. So I quickly googled, you know, got answer got questions dot org, I guess it is, which are bible answers. And I had them send me, you know, what, what are the 4 kinds of love, and then I I got them to send me the answer to each one of those kinds of love, and so I had, you know, a stack of paper like this.

Connie Smith:

But even though all of the thoughts were already there, I began to see and express things in a different way. God you see, there's there's the agape love, which we're commanded to have for everybody, particularly believers. That's the love that has been, the word comes from the Greek, but it has been totally redefined by lessons about God. And that's the the love of first Corinthians 13. So we're commanded to have that for everybody.

Connie Smith:

But then there's filial love, which is the love of a friend, a brother. It's the love between, you and and somebody else That should be backed by agape love, but it's different because we are even to agape love our enemies. But filial love, we are not commanded to have filial love, which makes friends out of enemies. We cannot love filially our enemies. The agape love, yes.

Connie Smith:

But we are not commanded to like everybody. We are commanded to love everybody, but we are not commanded to like everybody. And that makes a big, big, big difference. I can love somebody and not wanna spend 1 minute minute with them. They may be very toxic people to be with.

Connie Smith:

I can still love them, but I prefer to love them at a distance. So, anyway, I could go on and on, but I won't. Are there any more any other questions, not anymore, but any other questions or comments about this dichotomy holism? We won't yet talk about how that then plays into where you are on the time event.

Vivian:

But Yeah. I

Connie Smith:

found myself Go ahead.

Vivian:

I found myself totally the mixture of both dichotomy and holism.

Connie Smith:

Well, we have all that. But what do you intend towards? I don't remember.

Vivian:

And, my score is 10.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. Okay.

Vivian:

Yeah. Slightly towards holism. And I'm just thinking, okay, if we if I'm gonna pick a if I'm I'm gonna work with other people and form a team, then it's better that we have a dichotomy and a holism, at least one of them in the team. Because okay. So I I pay attention to more on the whole picture, but, I will have all the ideas.

Vivian:

But I will need people to actually work on that and, you know, get them into different parts. You're good. Lead a motivator.

Connie Smith:

That's your dichotomy side. Mhmm.

Carmen:

Yeah.

Vivian:

And assign the work to different people and then get things done, then definitely, I would need a a person who's slightly towards, dichotomy to get things done. Otherwise, we'll be people talking about ideas the whole time. And

Connie Smith:

Right. And never getting anything accomplished.

Vivian:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. A a a visionary leader a visionary really does not make a good leader. Let's put it that way. A wholest a a true wholest visionary who who can plan great things and sees great things, as a leader must have, at least at second in command, someone who is more towards the dichotomy in order to get the details done that make it possible to accomplish this great vision.

Vivian:

Totally agree. Yeah. Yeah. I can also see that within my church and, you know, some some leaders, are more dichotomies and some leaders are quite holism.

Connie Smith:

Mhmm. Yeah.

Vivian:

It's better that, you know, those people can can work together.

Connie Smith:

That's right. Yeah. But both sides both sides are going to have to, adapt a bit in order for there to be a working relationship that accomplishes the

Vivian:

whole Yeah. I send the the questionnaire to one of my potential coworker, and, I think that if I okay. I can send it to many of my friends or my my coworkers so I can know their styles, and then we can adapt each other, much sooner.

Connie Smith:

Yep. And you can also, meet face to face and just in how they respond, how they answer questions or how they ask questions and tell a lot about people meeting face to face. That's why I we have always tried to at least have a phone conversation before we, have someone come for sessions.

Mike Banker:

So so I suppose, Stone, you could also teach this course to them, and that would help them all

Connie Smith:

That would be an excellent thing to do.

Mike Banker:

Expect each other even though they're

Connie Smith:

Absolutely excellent thing to do.

Vivian:

If I if I've learned this lesson,

Mike Banker:

a

Vivian:

couple of months ago, that probably would change something because one of my team members is more time oriented, and I'm all slightly towards event oriented. So when this lady came to me and say, how can I become a safe helper? And I say, you you you can you know, you have fish finish your own session and observation and coworker and this and that. So I didn't give her a timeline, but, clearly, later I found out that she's that kind of person who's okay. But tell me what I'm gonna do what I'm gonna finish within this month or this semester or this season.

Vivian:

And tell me that how many years or exactly how many months I will be needing.

Carmen:

On on

Connie Smith:

what date do I get the reward?

Vivian:

Yeah. So when will I receive my certification and I know that I'm good to go? So she needs me to give her that specific answer. So then she will be encouraged to do that. But I couldn't give that to her.

Connie Smith:

And then That's so what so what kind of answer can you give that would give her satisfaction?

Vivian:

I think I can give her both. I think I can tell her. So event orientation, you need to get this this part and this part and this parts down, and then I can give her a roughly timeline. Mhmm. Like, normally, every on average, people will need, like, for example, like, 16 months to get out everything done more or less, really according to your own situation.

Vivian:

Maybe that will give her more, you know, information that she's looking for.

Carmen:

Okay.

Vivian:

Yeah. I

Connie Smith:

think that also give her shorter shorter term goals. Like, well, if you could complete if you could complete your life within this year Mhmm. Then that would be one of the first goals to get done.

Mike Banker:

K? That's a

Vivian:

good way to

Connie Smith:

And then, then you would give her another goal that was accomplishable. Like, then you would sit with me. You would do the the teaching in which you would view the the the teaching, and then we would discuss it. And, we could do that once a week till you're finished with the course, and that gives you another timeline. Yeah.

Connie Smith:

But give give her specific things and continue to impress on her that that is the goal. But if it is not reached, that's no big problem. It's just we need a goal to go towards. I had a student, one of my these participants. And one of the one of the, courses, I said, and and this will do be Friday evening.

Connie Smith:

Well, what time Friday evening? And I said, well, you know, somewhere around suppertime. But what time do you want it? And I finally said, okay. If you needed it need an exact time, I want it at 7:34, Friday evening.

Connie Smith:

And she was perfectly content with that, and she turned it in on time. I was being very facetious at that point. But

Mike Banker:

So, Stone, I don't know if this woman goes to the international church, but maybe you have a very specific syllabus for the equipping center course. You have dates and you have topics and all of those things are very clearly spelled out, and so that might feel comfortable to her. But then you you should add on then that, this is just the classroom part. There's a, like, a doctor you need to sit side by side

Connie Smith:

Right.

Mike Banker:

With Zoom, apply what you learn in the class and that can take and also to a point, it would be sad if you didn't weren't blessed by this yourself. So, and so those two things, I don't know exactly how long. But, that class thing would give her a sense of accomplishment.

Connie Smith:

Right.

Mike Banker:

Mhmm. I don't know. That's just a thought. But

Connie Smith:

And then, you know, you have to sit as an observer for so many.

Mike Banker:

Right. Just sit sit as an observer for this person's whole life. Right. That's why I

Connie Smith:

we need to to be observed for so many.

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

And so the the the limit the the thing of of getting through 10 of these or 5 of these, whatever the number is, is like giving her deadlines.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. So it's like a doctor has you have to have this residence or practicum.

Connie Smith:

Yeah. I need to

Vivian:

be more adapted adaptive into this situation. Yeah. Because I've been I don't have a, like, clear timeline for myself. So it is informed that way in my mind because, I mean, see, I was called you in those Yeah.

Connie Smith:

With that.

Vivian:

Yeah. So I was called in 2013, and I didn't know what to do. I didn't know the the the step after the this step I'm taking. And, years later 7 7 years later, I met Mike. I couldn't as anticipate that.

Vivian:

No one gave me a timeline of that. And, 2 2020, the COVID come and got told me go, and then I started to go. I don't have a timeline. I nobody gave me a timeline. I I don't anticipate or plan my timeline.

Vivian:

So this is how I went. So

Connie Smith:

But that's not going to fly for her.

Vivian:

Yeah. No.

Connie Smith:

This is Clearly, it hasn't. Now that we have some idea of how to plan a program Mhmm. What they do with it, they may take 5 years after they've had their life gone through, which is the first thing. Or if they've had the teaching, it would be the second thing. But, so now we have a general timeline of of of how things take.

Connie Smith:

And you're not telling her that this is for 6 weeks. You're saying when you completed this step

Mike Banker:

Right.

Connie Smith:

Okay. Alright. Any other questions?

Mike Banker:

Actually, just to add one last comment, Connie, is, yeah, this pressure to collect, you know, certificates. You can tell her that, well, a lot of people have taken the course, but they're not using it. Did you wanna also use it?

Carmen:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

Then you should go through a practicum, and you should go through your own life. And focus on that because, so many people just collect knowledge. And especially in China, you're like professional students. You've been trained to to make certificates. And so I I would focus on that as, if you really wanna use it, you need more than a classroom.

Mike Banker:

You should you need a practicum, and you need to go through it yourself. And yeah. Anyway

Connie Smith:

We have people here who Christians who think that going to learning the next thing, the next popular thing that comes through, is growing them in Christ. Because they don't remember or have not acted upon any of the 47 things they've already been through and learned.

Carmen:

Mhmm.

Connie Smith:

You know? So you you don't have anyway. Yeah.

Vivian:

So growing in Christ. So doing session with some people gradually become, like, having disciple, like Absolutely. Getting disciples with them. And, the thing about that is is timeline process. I'm still on the way.

Vivian:

I'll be still on the way when I'm, like

Connie Smith:

Okay. But you are talking right now like a wholest. You're talking as a wholest. So you're going to have to get together with a with a dichotomist in which you can figure out how to legitimately and comfortably give this woman a kind of timeline. Okay?

Connie Smith:

Alright?

Vivian:

No. I'm Everything you have to

Connie Smith:

not wanting to be categorized, not wanting to make an absolute statement. Okay. Very helpful.

Vivian:

Yeah. I think Ella is the is is 13. So I I probably need to talk to her.

Connie Smith:

Alright. Anybody else? Question, comment, or whatever.

Carmen:

May I ask, does this questionnaire always give the, right results or No.

Connie Smith:

Or Oh, I said that I said that in the beginning. No.

Vivian:

This is

Connie Smith:

state 10 there is no absolute. There is no absolute.

Carmen:

So how to help

Connie Smith:

your You don't have to have an absolute. If they're tending towards holism, then it's whole you deal with them that way. If they're tending towards dichotomy, you tend towards

Carmen:

do I don't mean I don't mean, like, the the result you get, is it really who you are or it depends on

Connie Smith:

It's how it's how you how you live your life. It is not I said this at the beginning. This is not not not not not anything to do with your worth, your value, your character, or anything else. It has to do merely on how you have divided up and work within your world.

Carmen:

And, it applies

Connie Smith:

neither side being a holist or a dichotomous a time or an event or any of these in and of itself is not right nor is it wrong nor is it a sin. You can be a holist and sin all you want. And you can be a dichotomist and sin all you want, and you can be a wholest, and you can be as righteous as god would have you be.

Carmen:

Do, certain cultures or personalities, would people get, like, results that match what they

Connie Smith:

No. How This is Or I think Nobody does in any survey. Nobody ever gets an absolute about anything, nor is it ever, ever, ever, ever about who you are. Never about who you are. Yeah.

Carmen:

Because I was wondering if I do this, I I let my, friends, people around me do this. Will they tell me how are they really are, or will the way they answer You

Connie Smith:

see, one of one of them you are speaking you are speaking like a wholest

Carmen:

Yes.

Connie Smith:

In which you need every bit and we'll get more to it when it's it's selective. You need every bit of information out there. You cannot make a statement. You cannot make a a belief statement. You cannot be settled in your heart until you have exhausted every option that there might be.

Connie Smith:

Okay? Nothing wrong with that. But you're not going to find all the answers that you want before you can live and live at peace with joy and all of that because life doesn't come that way.

Carmen:

I have another question that, this, was developed this questionnaire was developed in another generation. Right? And now the world is different. So does that make any impact? Or

Connie Smith:

Well, it may make an impact if the question is a generational difference. Yeah. I I can't imagine what that would be. But if you can think of something, I'd be glad to think on it.

Carmen:

And, also, wondering about translation into 2 different languages.

Connie Smith:

Well, I wouldn't worry about translating it until you understand it and live it. Then you can translate because you're translating concepts, not words. You will find whatever whatever you're translating it into, you will be translating into that culture. So you will not use American illustrations.

Carmen:

Yeah. Or use something that the this generation is more familiar with or the life than what?

Mike Banker:

As far as examples, you mean, Carmen? Or Yeah.

Carmen:

Concrete examples.

Connie Smith:

Like what? That would be that you might want to use that's different. But one of the things that, that we've done in most languages that, anything has been translated into is in this day and age, everybody knows credit cards. So but when we first began doing all this, there were many of the cultures that we were teaching in and working in had no concept of the credit card. Well, then you don't use credit card as your example.

Connie Smith:

You use something that's within the culture.

Mike Banker:

Okay? So so, Connie, could we could we say that, these 6 continuums, everybody has to, respond either time or event. Everybody has to organize things either holistically or, dichotomously. That these these concepts, they they go from generation to generation. But the way

Connie Smith:

These concepts, all people do.

Mike Banker:

Yeah. The way you communicate this, so could, differ generation. The examples you use should be your own examples.

Connie Smith:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. With your teaching PR or teaching basic motivations.

Mike Banker:

Maybe to tack on to Carmen's question then is, are we sure there's only 6 continuums?

Connie Smith:

No. So as

Carmen:

the conversation could've up, maybe I was 1 yeah. That may be what I was wondering behind my big questions. Are there

Vivian:

other time

Connie Smith:

If you can come up with another one, we would be very glad to consider it. I have no no problem adding

Carmen:

it from Yeah. One dimension, is it an like, in this current work, people are using different terms to describe them because lots of

Connie Smith:

Well, I use the different terms. That's all.

Mike Banker:

So it's

Connie Smith:

just It's the concept that's important, not the words. Alright.

Mike Banker:

Okay. Well, guys, I have to wrap this up. Sorry to

Connie Smith:

Yes. And, but I have an assignment.

Mike Banker:

For my, my water heater inspector shows up. So

Connie Smith:

Okay. The assignment tomorrow for tomorrow is that you look for 3 examples of that express or shows either dichotomy or holism and your reason for it. And if you're going to use a a situation or a scripture or anything like that, then this you would say that, that this was a presentation towards holism. It was a presentation towards dichotomy.

Mike Banker:

So the way they presented themselves

Connie Smith:

Yeah.

Mike Banker:

Was

Connie Smith:

Not that's not classifying who they are.

Mike Banker:

Yeah.

Connie Smith:

And I I have no problem with you doing that. But remember, whenever you're using god, these classifications don't really ring with him because he is everything and all. But the passage that you're talking about can either be presented holistically or, dichotomistically.

Mike Banker:

Okay. Alright. I'll put the, I'll I'll put the, audio out, this afternoon sometime and also add a comment for everybody that they should do their homework for tomorrow, the ones that weren't here when the homework got assigned. So, so okay. Let's see.

Mike Banker:

Could so, Carmen, do you want to close us in prayer?

Connie Smith:

Yeah? Okay.

Vivian:

Father god, we

Carmen:

give you thanks for a good opportunity to learn and to connect with each other, be able to carry the rich life experience, and to know who you are through all these, talking and testimony and interactions, further we, cherish this opportunity. And we ask you to give us wisdom and revelation of more of who you are and what's you what's your, goodwill of each in each of us. And we can also carry this goodwill to others and and show and be a good testimony and introduce you to others. May you, help us integrate everything from you into our life and help you can mature.

Vivian:

And you become more like

Carmen:

and just to unite our know. So, and and we can work like a body in Jesus Christ and serve each other. And we ask you to protect everyone's health and, our families, and and, keep us together. And and, we meet with so that we can meet again tomorrow. Give us everyone good rest and strengthen us.

Carmen:

So we pray in the name of Jesus. Amen.

Connie Smith:

Amen.