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Interviewing indie founders about their journey and their products. itslaunchday.com
Dagobert Renouf (00:01)
Hey Martin, welcome to Launch Day!
Martin (00:04)
Hello, I'm happy to be here.
Dagobert Renouf (00:08)
And we were just talking about... ⁓ You have a podcast and so you're using Riverside a lot, which is the tool I use for recording these. And every time I need to tell people, I warn them ahead of time. I will say goodbye at the end, but it's not really goodbye, don't leave, because you still need to upload your recording. And just before you, the guy left.
But he had fiber internet so it was uploaded so it was fine. But you're not always that lucky.
Martin (00:33)
No way. ⁓
Yeah.
Yeah, no, that has happened to me many times, like, and you even sometimes forget to tell or after like an hour talking, like everyone has forgotten. So you say bye, the guy say bye and bye. And then you're like,
Dagobert Renouf (00:52)
It's
just natural human thing. I don't know how we could do this because they should just and actually this should they should build this feature like fake goodbye or something to warn because after one hour of talking, even if you told them you say goodbye and they're like goodbye and then they leave. You know, it's just like so like I do goodbye and then I click stop and then I like, you're still there. You know, don't leave. Yeah. And one recording today I was like
Martin (01:17)
Don't leave, don't leave.
Dagobert Renouf (01:22)
Literally during the recording which I will publish on YouTube. I'm saying at the end. It's a fake. Goodbye. Okay, you know and I because you know, I was worried because I could see they were super into it I'm like, yeah, they're not gonna get it. So
Martin (01:30)
I'm really glad you did.
Yeah,
now it makes sense. But I really like the fact that this also become kind of a podcast as you were saying to me before like
I think, you know, I was trying to do that, like doing content every day or making like a podcast, like as you do, like a new person every day is like insane hard. And you have to be very focused and narrow into creating content where what I was doing for the podcast, he was meeting one person a week. So it's quite more difficult to create like a community vibe and a real movement if you just publish one episode a week.
Dagobert Renouf (02:08)
So what's this podcast you're doing? Because to be honest, I haven't checked.
Martin (02:12)
So long ago I was in France community, had IndieMakers. So the French podcast IndieMakers, the first one was made by me and I ramp up to 100,000 listeners. So it was pretty good, but I felt like I was a bit stuck in French mindset and I was not living in France anymore. most of my...
Dagobert Renouf (02:14)
I know you had a community that
Martin (02:40)
peers of other makers were not French. So I was feeling like the people I want to interview now, I cannot because of the podcast is French. Yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (02:47)
because it was in French, yeah. And in France,
to be clear with people, not everybody is confident with English. So you cannot switch from French to English. You cannot do that. I guess maybe if you're Swedish, you can do that. But in France, you cannot do that. So you work stuck.
Martin (02:55)
We are in.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was, I was very stuck for that reason. And also where I created a podcast was on LinkedIn basically. So, you know, I started from there and I kind of was in this LinkedIn community. I kind of hate now because everyone is like so much into bullshit. So I stopped.
Dagobert Renouf (03:21)
So you mean an actual
community inside LinkedIn? There was like a community group? Or you mean just LinkedIn in general was the community?
Martin (03:28)
I was just mainly posting on LinkedIn at the time. So that's where people react and I got a lot of views. got like the same numbers of followers I have now in...
Dagobert Renouf (03:30)
Yeah, okay.
Martin (03:37)
Twitter, no, have more in Twitter now, but I had like 7,000 something in, in, LinkedIn. And it was pretty active, but I start to hate it and I will not feel very like connected to these people. Most of people who wanted to connect with me were more startup mindset or VC mindset or having a big team mindset where it was not at all what I wanted to do. So.
Dagobert Renouf (03:57)
And it's mostly
business, it's like networking, it's like American style, like it's really clearly an exchange. It's less like, I mean, feel it was it, is that what you mean? You know, on LinkedIn? Yeah, yeah.
Martin (04:00)
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
It started to be more like something not really like human vibe and as you said, you do here. So I stopped it and then I started the English version of that what I called Solo Makers, Solos. And ⁓ I did like, I think 20 episodes. I did one with Mark. That's how I met him basically.
And then I got problem with editing because in French I had very good people doing editing for long, they were expensive but good. And then when switching to English I was like, yeah, will pay cheaper because fire. But I got so many bad people.
Dagobert Renouf (04:47)
wow,
okay yeah.
Martin (04:48)
So
it makes me lose so much time and then I pause it until I find a better editor and I'm still looking for that. Now I have a VA which is looking for them and restarting it. But when it will be started again, I will publish again one every week and one short every day.
Dagobert Renouf (05:04)
You know that's interesting you talk about that editing because before launch day last year I had a podcast that I stopped because of editing because it was taking too long. And it's only with launch day that I'm like, well, I'm doing too many. I cannot edit anyway. It's impossible. And I don't have the budget so fuck it. And like I'm literally doing almost zero editing. It's just, I just put them like I just.
Martin (05:15)
Yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (05:30)
And people love it because it creates... I mean, I'm not saying it's for every type of podcast, but... Oh! Be careful! Because your iPhone is used as your camera, so very dangerous. We took so long to set it up. If somebody calls you, we're so fucked. Okay.
Martin (05:44)
⁓
I will put it in, don't disturb. Yes. Okay.
Dagobert Renouf (05:49)
Okay,
okay, my God. what I have today, I have multiple people tell me they started listening to this podcast, but then they just listened to it throughout the day while they work. And it makes them connected to the indie community. Like it feels like you're just talking for one hour with indie makers and you like part of it. And that's just like super awesome. So I think.
Man, I'm so glad I don't do editing. I still do a little bit because I do one short of every interview that I put in the trailer of the launch and also on the page of every product. But it's a...
Martin (06:28)
Yeah, the
editing part was mostly the shorts because I was trying to do one short a day to have a distribution channel. Who was maybe stupid or maybe I could stop that because basically everyone, know, if you listen like people doing podcasts or whatever growing and it's like the best way of doing it, but it's like a fucking hassle and I hate it and I hate short. don't look short. I don't have TikTok. I don't have Instagram. So it's basically doing content for ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (06:35)
Yeah.
yeah.
Martin (06:54)
a platform I hate, so maybe I should not do that and come back to the original format in France where I was not doing short and it was like more easily to also get editors.
Dagobert Renouf (07:03)
Yeah, maybe, maybe. Or at least do it first and then you can do shots later. Like I started, if I try to put one shot a day but then it was too hard right now so I stopped, I just do them at the end. Because it's so time consuming as you said, know, finding the good sequence. I use this thing called Opus Clips, which like kind of like finds the clips and generates. So I just have to choose but then, you know, if you want good quality you have to edit again. Because, I mean.
half of the time, let's say, at least a little bit, you know. And so, yeah.
Martin (07:35)
Yeah, I was
using Rovid from Tibo and it's a very great tool as well. does everything for you, but still, if you want to perfect it, it's like AI. You cannot just vibe code it. You still have to put your human touch to make it like, lagged by human.
Dagobert Renouf (07:48)
Yay.
Yeah, That's like this AI, take us far, but not all the way, you know? I mean, in code, it's starting to be better, but everything I think that requires taste or like creativity, like, you know, it's not the same. So, yeah.
Martin (08:07)
Yeah, I agree. It's mostly test-laced. You can make it like understand what you're doing already because if you give it the whole code base then it will be like kinda look like your style or your idea. But it's never what a human can do and it's still not intelligent or it doesn't have opinion. That's something I like from the... I don't know if you have tested the latest feature of Grok. They did the Wayfew.
Dagobert Renouf (08:35)
De Grockfour ⁓
Martin (08:38)
Yeah,
GoG 4, but they did like kind of ⁓ anime characters. Yeah, and so they did give them a strong opinion about how they think and how they behave. And that for me is the right direction because having AI, which is like just a middle opinion of everything is like, I think it is not helpful.
Dagobert Renouf (08:43)
no, I haven't seen that.
on weight.
Please, you know,
let's do it Joe Rogan style. Please share your screen and show this waifu thing so we can see.
Martin (09:08)
Smart. The WIFU is on the phone, so how can I do that?
Dagobert Renouf (09:17)
How did you get it? Or I can look for it.
Martin (09:20)
Yeah, it's just in the Grok app.
Dagobert Renouf (09:22)
In the Grok app, I have it. And you can put it like this, it's fine. You can do it like this. yeah, yeah, I forgot. Okay, my God. You're using it for filming. ⁓ Grok app.
Martin (09:26)
Yeah, but he's filming right now.
Yes.
Dagobert Renouf (09:41)
your friendly companions, Annie and Rudy? Okay, man, I hope it's not gonna take over my AirPods, otherwise this recording is fucked.
Martin (09:43)
Yes. Yes.
⁓ Remove Bluetooth.
Dagobert Renouf (09:52)
yeah, shit.
Martin (09:59)
But basically they did two, one is the Rudy is like kind of rude animal, very hard to interact with. So now they're going to change his personality because it's a bit useless. And Amy is like AI girlfriend. She's like so in love with you and she's so nice, so cute. And she just want to compliment. I tested it and my wife did hear it and she came down and she was like, are you cheating on me? ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (10:10)
Mmm.
my god this shit. yeah I saw this shit. So... I'm Dago. She's speaking to me.
Martin (10:30)
Yes.
Yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (10:38)
feeling this energy already.
god, that's too sexual already. I'm in shock. You're disgusting.
Martin (10:46)
Yes, it is! It is crazy! ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (10:59)
Let's chill for a sec. Wanna tell me what's got you so shocked?
Okay, I don't believe you.
Martin (11:06)
and which is funny.
Yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (11:13)
Shut up, dirty girl.
Martin (11:23)
always and so
Dagobert Renouf (11:23)
Wow, okay, that's
enough. I'm not here for that kind of talk, Davo. Let's cool it down. That's weird. She gave me this vibe, you know? But you know, a woman. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding, no, I'm kidding. But like, it was so sexual, man. That was crazy. my God.
Martin (11:31)
yeah yeah yeah definitely
yeah. And you can go way more far than that. I tried and it is like, there's no limit. So I think this will be kind of the future of AI more with like really intentional way of thinking. think we will have like some, you know, even for coding, we will have some very up to, I don't know in English, word for that, like, you know, having a opinion. Yes.
Dagobert Renouf (11:44)
my god, this is funny, this is funny. Wow. Yeah.
Opini... Yeah, precise, opinionated,
yeah.
Martin (12:10)
Yeah, exactly. Because right now, each time you say something to AI, he says, yeah, you're right. But no, that's not what you expect from conversational.
Dagobert Renouf (12:18)
yeah, and so
that was your point, like Grok is more like this, like this new version? Yeah, okay.
Martin (12:23)
Yeah,
they are pushing in this direction and I think that will help like a tool for doing for example reels and stuff like that you will be able to give them an opinion and then they will not derivative from it and give it a real taste.
Dagobert Renouf (12:37)
And then praise Hitler, which is the risk with Grock, I guess. But I guess that's the interesting thing, this thing, because before that there was this Hitler thing where Grock was like praising Hitler. But it's kind of...
Martin (12:52)
Me gate there, yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (12:56)
I what I mean is like, I prefer that it has an opinion, even though it like, no, shut up, don't talk about Hitler, you're crazy. But, you know, it makes you think, well, on coding, it's gonna have, like on design, it's gonna have more interesting ideas. You know, at least it's gonna have some interesting thoughts, I guess. You know, at least for me, it's maybe because I'm kind of like, you know, a troll and I'm contrarian and shit. But like, I'm like, it's just that it's expensive. That's why I haven't tried it. But like, I'm like, that seems more, you know, if it's, if it...
Martin (13:11)
Yeah.
you
Dagobert Renouf (13:26)
if it can say something crazy like Hitler, you're like, ⁓ well, I guess it's going to talk about everything. you know, it feels like they just need to fix that somehow. know.
Martin (13:36)
Yeah, that's what I think you were sharing about that. It's very hard to make it be the exact balance between no taste at all or over going to me.
Dagobert Renouf (13:47)
Yeah, that's it. That's it. Yeah.
Yeah. Cool, man. So are you, how are you using AI right now in your, in your project and everything? Mostly coding?
Martin (13:57)
⁓
Right now there are two things. The first one is I am doing like everyone else using Cursor every day and insulting AI to try to code the things I don't want to code myself anymore.
Dagobert Renouf (14:08)
Yeah.
Martin (14:10)
⁓ And the second part is I am building, so I use AI for coding features into CapGo or the plugin I do. So CapGo is basically a tool for mobile apps who are made in Capacitor, which is a specific technology where you put a web app embed in the mobile app. React Native do the same in a different taste because the button is exactly native, it's not HTML, but it is the same.
Dagobert Renouf (14:29)
Yeah.
I I use, build a lot
of React Native, so I know why I chose React Native and not your technology. But I hear you, I hear you because in the end, you save so much more time, you know, if you just do a web view. Yeah.
Martin (14:44)
because it's not safe.
Yeah, and especially with AI now, it's very good in web. So if it's very good in web, then you can at the end just send build for native and what you have done in your browser and tested with cursor, it's working. Yeah, Capacitor.js. I can share screen on that.
Dagobert Renouf (15:03)
Capacitor you said, let me see.
Let me just...
Yeah, let's do it. It's fun.
Yeah, I'm like doing it every time I do these recordings I'm becoming more more chill and it's becoming more and more fun. So, okay.
Martin (15:27)
So
this is basically the...
The explanation of the platform is pretty simple. You can just install it like in few commands. And then you can use many features, native features like background runner, barcode scanners, whatever. And it's just a JavaScript call you add. And first you just install the barcode scanner plugin. And then you call this method scan barcode. And this will open a native view ⁓ with the camera and run.
Dagobert Renouf (15:59)
Yeah.
Martin (16:01)
the scanning and return to you the result of the scan. And it's super easy, but the thing is, this has never been made by Facebook or Google or whatever, so it's not really trendy, but super efficient.
Dagobert Renouf (16:14)
And how
does that help you? I guess it's also helpful to share your code between web and native this way.
Martin (16:23)
Yeah, but I can show you this. So CapGo, basically. Yeah, CapGo is my project and this is the web app. Obviously, I don't have the Dashlane connected. But if you put it in mobile version, then it's exactly how it looks like in the mobile app because I have also a mobile app.
Dagobert Renouf (16:31)
Okay, so CapGo is your product. Yeah.
⁓
But how does this, for example, this barcode thing, what happens on the web, what's going to happen on the web?
Martin (16:57)
So depending on the plugin how it's made, some integrated also an alternative on web, so you will work on web, or some, because it's too specific to ⁓ a native environment, cannot do anything.
Dagobert Renouf (17:13)
But I guess
you have some special conditions you can use to only display a button on mobile versus web or something like that.
Martin (17:19)
Yeah, your capacitor
provides you something called isNative.
Dagobert Renouf (17:25)
Yes, okay, okay, I was just wondering how to do that,
Martin (17:28)
Yeah, and you just call
it and it's not if you see you do something if it's not you don't do it You can also check if a plugin is available for example
Dagobert Renouf (17:36)
Hmm,
yeah, I see, Wow. Okay, so you're building, so what are you building then related to that?
Martin (17:40)
Yeah, yeah, that's cool.
Yes, so CapGo related to that is very simple. So because you do a mobile app, ⁓ which is made in JavaScript, HTML and CSS, ⁓ that means you could update the app directly into the native code without passing by App Store Review. So that means because if you have done an app before, know Apple is super picky and Google is super slow to distribute your app update.
And that's okay for some businesses, but when you start to make money with your app, for example, you ship a bug in production, then your app will stay with this bug for weeks or months, depending on how fast are people to update the app. And that can cost you a lot.
Dagobert Renouf (18:33)
And also how
long will Apple take to verify it on Google?
Martin (18:38)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, I wasn't clear, but there is two steps. The review can be long. It can be from one day to 10, depending on you don't know the reason, if it's vacation, it's whatever. So more people are publishing. And then you have between five to 30 days to have your app updated to the users because there is very specific condition to download an update.
The phone has to be plugged, the phone has to be not used, the phone has to be on wifi and all of this...
Dagobert Renouf (19:12)
And then
there's people like me who turn off auto update because I'm a control freak and then you're fucked.
Martin (19:16)
Yes.
Yes,
for example, there is also this. So basically this created like ⁓ some problems for some company, like big problems. And because you are again in JavaScript and HTML and CSS, you can just push the code ⁓ inside the app when the app is open and replace it. ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (19:42)
it reloads the codes and so it
completely bypasses this thing.
Martin (19:46)
Yes, and it's allowed by Apple and Google because if you follow rules, like you're not changing the purpose of the app, you're not adding like a big feature without telling them and stuff like that, they are okay because they do the same for the App Store. The App Store doesn't ⁓ doesn't have updates. It's a web app, in fact, the App Store of Apple, which is very funny.
Dagobert Renouf (19:58)
Yeah.
interesting that you say that's a good, that's a very good selling point for this. ⁓
Martin (20:15)
Yeah, and no one sees it and no one is like, it's not Nativa. Yeah, it's not Nativa. It is not at all.
Dagobert Renouf (20:21)
I wanna
check now, I'm even in doubt, like what? The app store isn't native? Now you're gonna tell that the Notes app is a web app, what? No, I'm kidding, but my God.
Martin (20:29)
No,
that's the only one I know, which is not Natu.
It's partially native, partially not native because they got like, you know, the specific...
Dagobert Renouf (20:44)
I have no idea, it's amazing.
Martin (20:45)
you or card
about like advertisement or something like events kinda. Yeah, so the cards of events are not native.
Dagobert Renouf (20:51)
Yeah.
This thing is not native.
Martin (20:57)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (21:04)
Interesting, we're
learning so much.
Martin (21:07)
Yeah. And so I made a system to, for myself, for my own apps, because I was doing apps. So I made a system to self-update the app without the app store. And I just share on GitHub. Basically I had, I had this problem, I solved it. And people are like, yeah, where it is, where we can pay. And I was like, okay. So I start to build a platform around it, make it pay. Four years ago now.
Dagobert Renouf (21:29)
How long was it?
Wow, and it seems to be working well because you're paying to sponsor this launch day. So you must be loaded, man. So how did it go?
Martin (21:42)
Loaded, I don't know. Like right now, I'm around 9K a month. It depends. is like some revenue I don't count, but between 9 and 14, let's say.
Dagobert Renouf (21:55)
Nice.
Martin (21:56)
Yeah. And it's growing. My difficulty right now is to grow for corporate enterprise, know, big corporate things because I am basically a company of one or I have one employee, which is part-time. And when you tell that, yeah, I just received Sok2 yesterday from CompAI.
Dagobert Renouf (22:12)
You need SOC 2 and shit like this, like some validation, this kind of stuff.
I was gonna say use Camp AI, but okay, you already used it.
Martin (22:21)
Yeah, Lewis
is genius. I was complaining on Twitter. I was like, this is such a scam, the whole business of SOC 2. And I was like, what the fuck? This is like crazy. And he told me like in January, you know what? I think I will do this business because you're right. I was working there and they're all scamming people. It could be like way better and open source. And I was like, yes, please do it. yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (22:29)
It is.
And he did it. And he was sponsoring the
first launch day. And the first launch day that was such a mess, he didn't get any sales. And I'm like, come back. And he's sponsoring the launch day. The next one. So yeah. Oh my God. No, no, no, no, no, no. The next one is Daniel Vasallo. Him is after. But yeah, he's so cool. And he's, you know, it's such a scam. This SOC 2 thing that he can still make it.
Martin (22:48)
Yeah.
Yeah. Now if you need something to do...
Dagobert Renouf (23:14)
5k a year and it's still like a good deal. That's such a scam. you know, it's going to be 500 a month and people are like, yeah, take my money, you know. my God.
Martin (23:17)
It is funny.
I
can tell you before I complained on Twitter, I got in a call with two companies. One proposed me 24,000 a year and the other one 18,000 a year.
And I am a company of one. Everything is serverless in my fucking Capgo backend and everything. So there is like no servers to inspect. There is nothing to check. Everything is on super base. I use only cloud provider because I am alone and I didn't want that to, you know, do so many things because like.
Dagobert Renouf (23:58)
Yeah, yeah, DevOps,
yeah.
Martin (24:00)
Yeah. And my biggest value and where I bring value to people, it's on the native because I'm coding native, I'm coding Java and Swift and people in my industry know shit about native. So that's where I put a lot of energy and effort into doing native stuff. do free plugins. Like I'm biggest provider of plugins with another guy. We are like the two on the top. so yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Everything in Capcom is open source.
Dagobert Renouf (24:09)
Yes.
You mean like in open source communities and in like, like what plugin for example, like show a
plugin because I have no idea. Like for example, this barcode thing.
Martin (24:31)
⁓ Barcode is not made by me, but I can show one.
Dagobert Renouf (24:34)
Yeah, sure. Wow. You're so like big helper in the open source community of this.
Martin (24:40)
Yeah, everything
in CapGo is open source, even the SAS.
Dagobert Renouf (24:43)
Wow, so cool.
Martin (24:46)
So going here.
Dagobert Renouf (24:51)
I like how open source was so huge when, you know, in my youth when I was like 15, like 20 years ago, and then it stopped and now it's coming back. I love how it's coming back for like a few years now.
Martin (25:00)
Yeah.
So here is the list of every plugin I've made. I think there is some I didn't even add to the list. Here there is two more. But basically this is to NativeMarket, so it's hard to demo, but I can explain what it's doing. NativeMarket is a plugin if you have an app and you want to reference other apps.
in your app, for example, you are Google and you want to put a click into Gmail, into whatever apps, but you have an app which is not native. We made this plugin for that, so it directly checks if the app exists in the phone. If it doesn't exist, it goes to the store. If it exists, it opens the app.
Dagobert Renouf (25:42)
So it's like I remember
10 years ago there was Apple who said of 12 years ago, we're going to introduce app links. That was a way to link between apps. So that's this but available in this framework, I guess.
Martin (25:56)
Yeah, exactly. use this, but with a better integration because if you do the app links for the web, you cannot check if the app exists because in the web, it has to be secure and you cannot check the app existence. We can do better because of native. ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (26:08)
Yes.
And
let's not go through everything, like which is your favorite here? Which is the one that or the funnier, like the one with the best story?
Martin (26:19)
⁓ I think the one with the best story is maybe not here. Yeah, I can...
The best one is this one, social login. So basically you can see it has like 100 Facebook stars.
Dagobert Renouf (26:34)
wow, okay.
Can you zoom in a little bit?
Can you zoom in like the font, make it a bit, you know, like, you know, the comment plus.
Martin (26:47)
yes.
Dagobert Renouf (26:50)
Yeah, good, thanks.
Martin (26:52)
Yeah, so this one I started, I launched it because I was saying, saw like everyone was struggling to do ⁓ login into your app, know, Google login, Facebook login, whatever login you want. And every login platform has its own plugin and each of them were barely maintained or not really maintained or the maintainer didn't want it to use the new library, which is recommended because the one you use is deprecated, whatever.
So what we did is we took, we created a plugin where inside there is Facebook, Google and Apple login and everything is in one. It's super easy. You just like click activate one. You have the second one. It works like it's well documented.
Dagobert Renouf (27:38)
Yeah, you just need
to go to Google to make your credentials and that's it I guess.
Martin (27:42)
Yeah,
we did in the website here in documentation, we did document like very well how to use it.
Dagobert Renouf (27:49)
Yeah, it's super easy actually. I mean, to just create the credentials.
Martin (27:52)
Yeah, so.
Yeah.
And something funny we did about this plugin is basically Apple login. It works only on Apple devices. But if you are a bit sneaky, you can make a way to make it work on Android. Because right now, if you make an app and by default, you know, if you have Google login or Facebook login, it is mandatory by Apple, you add Apple login. There is no other choices. If you want your app to be published with, yeah, on the iPhone.
Dagobert Renouf (28:22)
on the iPhone. Yes.
Martin (28:24)
you need to have Apple login if you have any other social login.
Dagobert Renouf (28:30)
It's It's a... mafioso style but it's smart. Okay.
Martin (28:30)
If you do, just email password.
Yeah, but then that creates you a very funny bug is if your app is published on iOS and Android, then someone download the app on iOS, you do Apple login, then he has an Android tablet, for example, and you want to connect to the app and there is no way to connect with Apple login because it doesn't exist in native in ⁓ Android. It's like they didn't develop any SDK. So they force you to implement a bug in your app.
lol
Dagobert Renouf (29:07)
But
you could hide it, like we said earlier, could hide it maybe just on Android, is that possible?
Martin (29:12)
But yeah, but if you do that and the person wants to connect to his account, how do do that?
Dagobert Renouf (29:20)
I get it now. Yeah, he has an iPhone. He created his account with Apple. yeah, so I see the problem. Yeah, the problem is Apple forces you. So that means some people who use on iOS, I'm sorry, I'm slow, ⁓ people on iOS will create an account with Apple. Then one day they have an Android phone and they're like, I wanna log in. shit, how do I log in? Because they cannot use Apple. my God.
Martin (29:20)
You get- Yeah.
Yeah.
Bye.
Yeah.
Yes.
So yeah, and Apple did provide SDK for JavaScript website. So we use this and we created a native view and a lot of acts to make it work in Android, but now it works on Android. So we are the only plugin who can allow login, Apple login in Android natively. Like even not in React. Yeah, and that's make many people like praise this plugin because it's well maintained.
Dagobert Renouf (29:55)
Yeah, because you're web kind.
That's awesome, wow. No idea.
Martin (30:16)
He has features like no one else has. We use the latest SDK, the most best practices, whatever, sometimes make us in trouble, but it's a lot of work. And as you can see, there is a lot of issue. People are like, missing this, missing this. It's crazy. So
Dagobert Renouf (30:33)
Wow, but
that's cool. That's what scares me about open source, but that's better than having nothing. It's cool activity.
Martin (30:38)
Yeah, and
as you can see here on the homepage, so you have CapGo here, friends. So it's a good backlink because you're on GitHub. And here there is like ⁓ one link to CapGo, one link to also CapGo.
Dagobert Renouf (30:51)
Yeah, that's and that's how is
that your main distribution because that seems like awesome, you Yeah
Martin (30:57)
It is here.
SU doing shit, but this is doing insane. Yeah. So that's basically why. Yeah, yeah. It's my main Mac.
Dagobert Renouf (31:03)
yeah, makes sense, that makes so much sense.
So that's your main marketing is a contribution
to GitHub. That's the most interesting marketing channel I've heard so far. That's awesome. Yeah. Okay.
Martin (31:18)
Wait, you're not ready for the rest. I
am paid by people to create this plugin. This one not. I made it myself. But if you come back to the list here, ⁓ uploader, was paid. Which one I was paid?
Dagobert Renouf (31:31)
Why? Because it's
like somebody who needs it and because you have this authority of being a builder of that on GitHub, they find you. How does that work?
Martin (31:42)
Yeah, Basically, people find me here on the GitHub and you see if you have a bug or whatever, you can hire us. I will change the text soon to say like, if you need a plugin, hire us because I realize that's happening more. On the website also, you can tell like you need like a plugin. Here's for enterprise, it's me and one developer which is 18 years old.
Dagobert Renouf (31:53)
Yeah.
So it's still just you, CapGo.
Martin (32:10)
and is babbling because it's in school.
Dagobert Renouf (32:11)
Okay.
Like in France, like in this French system, which is like...
Martin (32:17)
No, he's Polish.
Dagobert Renouf (32:18)
Okay, cool. Awesome.
Martin (32:22)
But yeah,
basically this is what makes the secret sauce of CapGo is like I have a lot of plugins and people discover me from that and I create more plugins. So I am paid to do my own marketing. Yeah, but that happened by mistake. I didn't realize that until not long ago. I was talking about doing SEO on Twitter and a guy talk about SEO, I DM him.
Dagobert Renouf (32:35)
No, I'm like super inspired by that song.
Martin (32:50)
We talk about SEO and he's basically showing me I'm doing shit in SEO. So he's like, where do you get traffic? No, no, it's... ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (32:56)
Is this Ilias? Is this this fucking... Because some guys did
the same to me, I'm like, dude, shut up. okay. Oliver, okay.
Martin (33:02)
Yeah, it's Oliver. It's another one.
Yeah, but really like the guy changed my mind, Oliver Fish, very cool guy. And I was talking with him and he analyzed like my stats into AhashF and stuff like that and Google Cloud Console, search console. And he told me, basically you just have branded content. People find you for your brand. So what the fuck you doing with your brand? And then I show him the plugin and he's like, oh, so your brand is everywhere. Capgo plugin, Capgo, blah, blah. So basically I have, yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (33:09)
Okay.
Yeah.
That's the best, man.
Martin (33:36)
And so he made me realize that I am a piece of shit in SEO, I'm doing shit, but I am paid to do marketing and I should keep doing that. for me, was like, when I get like to 10K MRR, I stopped doing the plugin because it's so much time and so much effort to do like service and I don't want service to do service. And he made me realize, no, man, like this is like, if you do that, you kill yourself.
Dagobert Renouf (33:41)
my god.
That's the acquisition channel, that's the value. You know, I have this same kind of... Thanks for stop sharing your screen when we are done, because I have to ask every guest, but you're a podcast pro, so you know that if you don't, I have to fucking edit, so thank you. ⁓ Anyway, yeah, man, like... Fuck, I forget what I'm so tired. I forgot what I was gonna say. ⁓
Martin (34:04)
Yeah.
Yeah.
about the marketing panel.
Dagobert Renouf (34:31)
Yeah, yeah, really cool marketing channel. Well, I will remember it.
But yeah, was gonna say launch day, I kind of like fight it. I am resisting ⁓ that what this is becoming is a community and it's becoming, think it could replace IndieHackers.com in the mind of people because it kind of like fell down and there's like nothing that came back. Like this community is kind of like missing.
something and I think launch day could be that and I have more and more people who love it. But I'm resisting because I'm like, no, you know, I don't want to just do that. I want to build some apps and some sass and you know, and like sometimes you have something like you have an idea of what you should be of what you imagine yourself, but it's usually different from like what's working, what's easy and what actually can help the most people.
You know, so for example, you, you're doing something beautiful. Like this is open source, so like open source is awesome. You're helping people. It's so cool, like you should be so proud of this. Like it's so great. Like it's the people, you know, we used to admire like, oh, this guy is creating this, all of this for free. Wow. That's just so beautiful. And you're making money and it's your distribution channel. So like everything is perfect, but you're still thinking, ah, you know, you know, that's, that's interesting.
Martin (35:59)
Yeah, there is
always a way to complain. And for a while, you know, it took me a while to understand that it's not about the idea you have to find. It's also you have to find your founder fit, you know, you as a person that you fit in this place and he give you energy every day. It's not draining you. And right now doing like plugin and stuff like that's not really draining me. I hate the fact like I'm doing service.
But I hate the fact I don't hate the action. I like what I am doing because every day, you know, I'm I'm, I am deeply rooted hacker. You know, I like to hack stuff and make things that's not supposed to work work. And what I do with the plugin is always like that. Right now I'm, I'm trying to do like a plugin for a stream call. So stream call is SDK to do call between phones apps. And this shit is like not working at all for capacitor is not made for that. So I am like hacking my way to it. And I know.
Dagobert Renouf (36:32)
Hmm.
Yeah. And maybe the documentation
is bad, it's a new thing. You know, you sometimes have this, you know. It's problem to solve. Yeah.
Martin (36:56)
Yeah, it's a mix of a of things. Yeah.
And I am capable to do that and I know like most of the no one in the world
to do that, guy I really like Robin is another guy in the same field as me, he's also doing like the same business, the same plugin and so on. We are very friend, but him for example, he doesn't like at all to not control what he's doing. So basically me, I'm capable to take a plugin for someone else, which is outbroken off working and fork it and make it work and maintain it, maintain the bad code of someone.
Dagobert Renouf (37:29)
That's
very, I never heard that. That's a very magical skill. I would hate to do that. So that's very good.
Martin (37:36)
Yes,
but I don't know why I enjoy doing that. I enjoy the mystery of discovering shitty code of people, you know?
Dagobert Renouf (37:42)
my God, yeah.
Martin (37:44)
And Robin on his other side, when he finds a plugin which is useful but broken, he records it from the start. Which is very nice, he makes super high quality plugins in what he's doing. But it takes 10 times more than me and he cannot scale as fast as me on plugins because I'm just fixing tiny bugs, understanding the shit, improving it and sometimes after a while rewriting them because there's no other ways. But that's not what I'm doing first.
Dagobert Renouf (38:12)
inspiring. So I've been meaning to ask you since the beginning, where do you live right now? Where are you?
Martin (38:20)
So right now I am in Madeira, which is a Portuguese island. You see where are the Canary Islands. So it's a bit...
Dagobert Renouf (38:25)
Okay.
No, it's like super far
away, like it's not in Portugal, it's like super far, it's like in Africa, yeah.
Martin (38:37)
Yeah, Yeah,
yeah, it's near Africa. So, ⁓ Canary Islands are very near Africa and we are a bit further. We are very in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. If you know where Azores is, we are midway between Portugal and Azores, so it's pretty far. But... yes, we could... Yes.
Dagobert Renouf (38:45)
Wow.
Madeira, let me share my screen quickly because I love to, I will do it. I love doing,
it's like the first time doing this Jorgen style. I mean, I do it more and more, like, I mean in the sense of showing links live and I fucking love it, man. It's going to be, okay. So Madeira. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Very small Island. yeah. It's near Morocco. Okay. I see.
Martin (39:09)
Yes, that's my island.
Yeah, it's a small one.
I mean, near, near, it's still far. But yeah. And I really like this place because, so we still in Europe, but you see behind me, there is a banana tree or different kind, but in the style of a banana tree. We have banana in Madeira. We have good weather all year long.
Dagobert Renouf (39:32)
Yeah.
Martin (39:41)
and we are in Portugal, know, so it's like one hour 30 from Lisbon. Yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (39:44)
It's and it's EU also, you know, so you don't have
all these things. Yeah.
Martin (39:50)
Yeah, and it's not dangerous, you know, I often compare like I was living in Madeira and then I went to Bali and Bali is beautiful, it's different, blah, blah. But then I went to a hike and the first things I saw after five minutes is a cobra in front of me in the street. And I was like, what am supposed to do with a cobra? I was not prepared for that.
Dagobert Renouf (40:05)
Wow.
That's the
problem with bullshit on social media is they only show you... Because what get likes is the cool shit. So you only see the cool shit, then you go there like, what the fuck? Like there's a meme like this of like Joe Pesky who's like, what the fuck is this piece of shit? I'm kidding, but you know, it's kind of like...
Martin (40:17)
Yeah.
No, no,
but it's clearly that man and just to finish this story. So I saw a cobra I was like, what the fuck I like came home
back like I escape like I run away from a fucking cobra. Then I come back home, I sleep, I wake up, I in my room, I go to the terrace, I sit my ass to do breakfast and we were like, what the fuck happened yesterday? And then I saw my ex-girlfriend freezing, you know, and becoming white and I was like, what the fuck's happening again? And then I turned behind me on the, you know, it was like a wall kind of, of the border of the terrace. It was a fucking anaconda. And I was like, what the fuck is happening in this country?
you
Dagobert Renouf (41:07)
Well before continuing on shitting on Bali, wanna say people have the same experience with Paris. They watch Emily in Paris, they see all these things and they come and are like, what the fuck is this shit? So I'm not saying it's just Bali, it's just social media in general. But, man yeah.
Martin (41:22)
I But what
I was saying, was not like about social media, it's more about, I like Madeira because it's a safe place. know, the only things you can do is kill yourself because you did a hike in a dangerous place. But outside of that, there is no wolf, no bear, no things that can kill you in Leeds. Yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (41:38)
No huge snakes. Yeah, man, that's too much. I saw
a snake once when I was Airbnb with my ex in a...
in like a desert in USA and it was in New Mexico and this old lady, she was on Airbnb and she, you it was back when Airbnb was kind of like, you know, and let's say, you know, maybe 10 years ago and man, we got in there and like, it's in the desert and it's like, my ex wanted to go, she's always wanted to discover new things and there was this, it's a house that's almost buried, it's semi buried.
Martin (41:50)
Yeah.
Cool.
Dagobert Renouf (42:17)
So half of the house is buried and the roof is basically at the normal level. So you can walk on the roof, you know. ⁓ So that's cool, you know, she has her little ⁓ fruit and vegetable shit on the roof, I mean, whatever vegetable you can put on the desert, but still, ⁓ because it was just like sand and stones and shit. And we go on the roof, she makes us visit and we hear like this fucking rattlesnake.
Martin (42:22)
cool.
other snake.
Dagobert Renouf (42:44)
And I never thought in my life I was scared of snakes, because I never met them. I'm scared of spiders, I know. But snakes, I'm like, it's a snake. But when this shit is like, this shit was like, and like, this shit, I couldn't sleep. So then we left, and it was like, and my ex, she was in shorts, and she was like, know, naked legs. And this thing was like, just close, close to her. So we went back.
Martin (42:50)
Yeah.
Yeah, I was ready to...
Dagobert Renouf (43:12)
Then this lady, she didn't seem super bothered. She was like, yeah, she was kind of like old, but like kind of like disconnected, you know, like, yeah. And like, no, please do something. And so she called her neighbor who was like 10 minutes away, you know, her neighbor, but he used to be like, wait, no, first you went to get her neighbors. So it took her like 20 minutes. So we were alone in this house and she said, please don't let my dogs run away. They will be killed by the snakes. So she goes off.
Martin (43:16)
happen.
Dagobert Renouf (43:39)
And then we're waiting and we see the dogs run away. I'm like, I'm not moving for these dogs. don't give a shit. I'm not saving the dogs. So the dogs go away. Nothing happened to them, thankfully. Then she comes back with this neighbor and this guy, he's like, know, Indian American, like native. Like, and he was from Canada, but he was like, you know, like, like in the movies, like with these fucking feathers and shit. Almost. He was a bit more modern, but still. And he's like,
Martin (43:43)
⁓ He's dead.
Dagobert Renouf (44:10)
⁓ I'm gonna kill it and it's gonna make the rain come. I'm like, what? know, okay, it's gonna make it rain, know, like, kind of like, and so he goes and he went to kill it with like the biggest stick. I the technique was so simple. He had the super heavy stick that was like three meters long and he was just three meters away and just like just killing the fire snake. And so he kills it and he said, that was just the baby. You should watch out for the mother. You know, I'm like, okay, cool.
Martin (44:15)
yeah, very good.
Yes.
Dagobert Renouf (44:39)
And he said, also be careful because they sometimes they're on trees and they fall on your head. So we try to, yeah, we try to forget. We go get some food. Amazing. We met some French people in this restaurant somehow. We come back at night and we park and we park, but the parking place is under a tree. So we are shitting our pants. We're like, let's go out. And we go out.
Martin (44:46)
It's rainnysday. Perfect.
Dagobert Renouf (45:08)
We're gonna finish, we go into the house, she's sleeping, this lady, it's like midnight or something. She's sleeping because it's the same house. And we hear crazy noises in her room, like big bugs, like... But you know, she's old and she has shit to hear, so she removed it probably, she's completely deaf or something. And then we're like in the room and we're like, okay, cool. And then we see on top of the bed what we see, a big air vent, you know.
that's like right under the roof. And like, there's just like a fucking like big fucking vent where there was the snake. So we're like, so basically this thing can fall on us, you know? So I look online on the wifi, I look, is, cause you know, it's like a open source kind of house that she built, some modern shit. So I'm like, you know, like modern kind of house that's buried. So you could find like the plans, the schemas.
Martin (45:41)
the wolf you can to, so the snake can go
amazing.
you
Dagobert Renouf (46:05)
So I look, is there some kind of protection? Anyway, and then we, which we start to try to sleep and then we see there was like basically, you know, beetles, like small beetles, like this black thing. And we start seeing one in the room and then two and then my ex is like scared. So she comes in my home and I'm like, it's going to be okay. And then she hears I stopped breathing. She's like, what? And I was looking up and there's like 10, you know.
Martin (46:16)
Yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (46:33)
everywhere and this shit is running everywhere. I'm like, we're gonna sleep in the car. So we go in the car. We go sleep in the car. What they don't tell you, what I didn't know is in the desert, it's freezing at night. Like in the day, it's like 35 and then at night it's like eight. ⁓ That's why all these fucking, that's why it is so stupid to make a buried house in the desert because all these animals, they go for warmth. So at night they go inside the house.
Martin (46:36)
Thank you.
Yeah, they look for you. Hey,
can we hug you as well?
Dagobert Renouf (47:04)
my god. Yeah, so anyway, long story short, I'm sorry, I just wanted to this story, but...
Martin (47:08)
No, it was cool. But that's
exactly the reason why I live in Madeira. I want to be in a place which is warm, so it is the case, mostly all year long. It's between 17°C to 26°C all year long.
Dagobert Renouf (47:22)
So it's never too
much, like it's never like 35 or something.
Martin (47:26)
No, ⁓ maybe like one or two days of canicule and it's 31.
Dagobert Renouf (47:30)
Yeah.
Yeah, I see. And
do they have AC there? Is it common to have AC?
Martin (47:38)
I don't have AC in my house and to install it is a hassle, but the good part is you, like, at 26 it's still okay. It's like a bit hot, but it's not like 30 or something. That's also why I looked for a place which is like not having too much heat. You know, I'm from south of France. I've been burned every year and I don't want that. I don't want to live under AC. Not because like I do believe in AC, it's just like...
You have to clean it if you... am very sensible of ⁓ dust and bacteria in air, you know, particles. So if I want to use AC, I have to clean it every day and I don't want to do that.
Dagobert Renouf (48:19)
wow, yeah I didn't know that. Maybe that's why when I never had AC, but when I was in building which had AC, after two hours my eyes are so dry it starts hurting. So I don't know why, so maybe that's related to that. yeah, I think it's not just magical. You have also low quality AC and high quality AC that must make such a big difference. You have some which I guess have APA filters and all this advanced shit, but that must be super expensive then.
Martin (48:48)
Yeah, ⁓ definitely I think there is ⁓ a cost thing like the higher you go, the better you go. But at one point you still need to clean it. It's like a vacuum cleaner. If you don't clean it at one point, it's not vacuum.
Dagobert Renouf (49:00)
And
with your sensitivity, you need to clean it every day. So yeah, that's a hassle. Or maybe once a week.
Martin (49:06)
Or...
Yeah, it depends. I never tried every premium one, maybe it's better. But for average one, I need to clean it very often, otherwise I start sneezing all the time. Just for my house, I bought super expensive vacuum cleaner with EPA filter, because otherwise I sneeze all the time just with the dust. Yeah. I'm limited to allergic to dust, so it's like...
Dagobert Renouf (49:21)
Yeah. ⁓ I see. So you're very sensitive. see. Makes sense.
Yeah, well, I'm glad you're on the good side of the limit, because on the other side, you must be basically fucked. my God.
Martin (49:36)
Yes, yes.
But I'm sensible to that.
Dagobert Renouf (49:40)
Ok,
that was a good one man, I'm glad I met you, finally after all this time. This was cool. Yeah.
Martin (49:43)
Yes.
Yeah, it's crazy. We were supposed
to do a podcast now at one point. I never told you. Yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (49:51)
Yeah, I think we will.
That was cool, man. That was cool. ⁓ Yeah, so you know... ⁓
I hope you will get some sales from launch day. You have this new sponsorship slot, which is the shittiest you can imagine, which is like fixed position at the bottom of the list. But you had this thought to think it's going to be stuck to the live chat on mobile and it's two thirds of traffic or at least let me check because maybe it's only 10 % traffic on mobile and you made a bad investment. Let me check for you.
Martin (50:13)
I don't agree.
Yeah.
No, but instead of ⁓ just thinking about mobile, I think more globally. What I
in your platform is like everyone wants to know a bit about every project because it's like carefully selected and there's not a launch every day. know, Product Hunt, you launch, you look like the five first or less, but I still scroll
Product Hunt. And so I believe people will scroll also in your platform.
Dagobert Renouf (50:50)
Yeah.
Yeah, okay so that's today iOS 42 Yeah, I think that was 60
Yeah, mobile is going to around 65, 60, around 60.
Martin (51:16)
Are you?
Maybe I have the best slot and you didn't knew about it.
Dagobert Renouf (51:29)
Yeah, no, but it's cool. It's a really cool idea. Yeah, had a lot of people on the first launch. But what I like is it's never, it's just the beginning, but I'm still getting some good traffic. If you look just one week, which is very low in terms of what I did, I still get basically 100 % per day, even right now, which is cool. And Plaza Ball is kind of quite, it's really not counting everyone.
Martin (51:56)
Do you use the version you host yourself? I mean, not the whole platform.
Dagobert Renouf (52:02)
No, no, no.
And actually, I think I'm going to switch to a product that is in this launch day from Dominic Sommer because he almost convinced me to switch for his platform, which is called Sweatrix. ⁓ No, wait, wait, I have multiple people with analytics. don't want to get fucking... No, Sweatrix is last week, last launch day. Another awesome product. Yeah, but anyway, ⁓ I'm sorry, I'm a bit tired.
Martin (52:17)
Not this story today.
Dagobert Renouf (52:32)
But yeah, he convinced me and I think I might use it because he also is gonna get a super cool lifetime deal or like a one year deal I think, so that's gonna be awesome. And look, like you, you know, I'm not doing SEO and people are shitting on me because I mean some people like, you don't have SEO. So first of all, I'm sorry, I'm just gonna be a bit ranting. The reason I'm not doing SEO is like all of these fucking websites.
product and alternative, they're just selling backlinks. That's what they're doing. They're just scamming. It's like, which you shouldn't do because Google doesn't allow it basically, but anyway, they're selling backlinks. So it's just like, there's literally zero values like backlinks. So it's valuable, but it's not complicated. You know, it's just the most basic business online is to sell a fucking backlink. And I'm selling attention, interest, visibility, sales. So that's like 10 times more important. And sorry, just ranting.
And I was like, I don't want to do SEO. I'm going to make a product so cool that I still want to make SEO. like, my first goal is like to be so cool that people link to me and look, I don't do any SEO. So Simon Hoiberg was the sponsor, app launcher, I guess is, I don't even know what it is, but I guess it's an aggregator. This is my newsletter listing cat is must be listing. Yeah, you see all of these people are creating links for my platform.
because it's cool. And that reminds me of you, you know? That reminds me of what you just said, that you focused on being useful and just doing cool shit on GitHub, and you have SEO because of this, you know?
Martin (54:12)
Yeah, that's what you need to do to look in ⁓ in AshGearth is there is a chart somewhere you can see if you have branded content or against non-branded content that means people come to you because they know you and that means you're doing what you want correctly. It's like being cool because you know like the same as superhuman or the platform like that they exist.
Dagobert Renouf (54:21)
⁓ yeah.
Yeah.
Martin (54:37)
not because they're doing better features or whatever, it's because they are cool. That's a way to market it. I have no idea unless what I'm doing on GitHub to do it. But I think that that can be a very good way to market it. Basically, that's why I decided to go with you on the lunches, because I know right now you're cool. You know you're talking and people are talking.
Dagobert Renouf (55:01)
Yeah, the thing is cool, yeah, yeah.
Martin (55:06)
because numbers will not make real sense, but the cool is something different you cannot really measure. So it's also better for sales for you because the numbers will not tell, but the quality of the people coming makes a huge difference.
Dagobert Renouf (55:20)
Yeah, yeah, I think so. I agree and I appreciate you saying that. Yeah, and I think, know, also we're Indie makers. So, you know, we cannot spend ourselves too thin. We got to focus. Like you're focusing on contribution, open source. I'm focusing on making it the coolest thing I can on social media. You know, of course it would be better if we had time to do SEO. Like, you know, it would be better, 100%. Like proper SEO.
But you also need to pick your battles, I think. So that makes sense.
Martin (55:55)
Yeah, and on top of that, there's picking your battle and also, I would say, there is battle you can win easily. For example, you're very good at creating community and attracting attention of people. so, double down on that, you don't need SEO. It's stupid to do SEO if you're so good at grabbing attention on social media, like on Twitter. Keep doing that better. When you started to... ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (56:08)
Yeah.
Martin (56:22)
three times more tweets and stuff like that. was like, yeah, that's what I want to see. I want to see more of you, more than you doing SEO, I think. The problem with social is like, it's not really... I don't know how you can make it last. Yeah, exactly.
Dagobert Renouf (56:31)
Yeah. And you don't...
It's not passive, it's not passive and that's very tough.
But I'm building a community with launch day so it's gonna become more and more passive over time, I think a little bit. But it's really right what you said, like we should focus because, and also it's your mode. Like look at all of these prod, I mean I'm sorry, like, when I'm competing I'm like a fucking asshole. you know, I like all these competitors.
Martin (57:04)
We like you. You are
French.
Dagobert Renouf (57:07)
Yeah, yeah,
I'm so fucking French, man. I'm embracing it now. Yeah, and... ⁓
like they're all doing the same thing. sure, a lot of them for now, they have better domain ranking. But like, just think right now, if you're launching, there's three options that like product hunt, should do it because it's free and you have a chance of going big. do it 100%. Then you can pick one of these alternatives for just the backlink, which is cool for your SEO.
And if you want attention, come on lunch day. If you want attention, if you want to be part of something cool, if you want to show your face, have some authority, it's so helpful for everything, for your marketing. It makes you exist in the eye of people, because now you have a video, half of the people on this lunch day, they never did a video before. They didn't have an interview. So that's awesome for them. That's awesome. And so it's just so different. And this difference, it's scary.
Martin (58:04)
because.
Dagobert Renouf (58:13)
but it's also where now there's such an obvious reason to do launch day. Because if I had just done like a product on the alternative, then the only thing I'm competing in is like my domain authority. So I'm fucked because they all have better. So why would you pay for me? No reason. You know what I mean? So that's, yeah.
Martin (58:27)
Yeah,
No,
and on top of that, think Productant is super generic, know, like everyone launching on it, like things unrelated. So it became like Facebook, you know, it's like so big and it doesn't fail because it's so big, but it doesn't provide value much. I don't go to Productant anymore. It's like, I find it like not really interesting anymore. But yours platform finding way more interested because it's like, it's all community, it's all vibe. It's like matching what I know. It's like, you know,
Dagobert Renouf (58:45)
Yeah.
Martin (59:04)
It's like basically the... What's the name of that? You know, the place in the center of the village. So if you can become that, that you know, will hang out there because it's the people you know, the people you like, the people I've talked with every day on Twitter, I will be there. And that's the nice thing.
Dagobert Renouf (59:13)
yeah.
Yeah,
that's awesome, man. Thank you. We're gonna end this podcast after exactly one hour. ⁓ That's awesome, So yeah, I hope this launch day is gonna bring you cool shit. That I'm gonna try my best. And that was awesome finally meeting you.
Martin (59:32)
Yay.
.
Yes, it was awesome to meet you as well and I hope launch day will be great for everyone. See you.
Dagobert Renouf (59:51)
Thank you man, and thanks for sponsoring. Bye.