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Tune in every Tuesday for a brand new episode of Don't Eat Poop! A Food Safety Podcast. Join Francine L. Shaw, the savvy CEO of Savvy Food Safety, and Matthew Regusci, compliance connoisseur and founder of Fostering Compliance, as they serve up the latest in food safety with a side of laughter.
Explore the ins and outs of food systems, responsible food practices, and food safety regulations. Stay informed about food safety awareness and the not-so-occasional food recall. Delve deep into the complexities of the food supply chain with our dynamic duo, who blend expert insights with a pinch of food safety humor. Whether you're knee-deep in the food safety industry or just passionate about what's on your plate, this podcast promises a fresh take on staying safe while eating well.
Expect candid conversations, personal anecdotes, and occasional guest appearances that spice up the discussion. Shaw and Regusci bring their combined decades of experience to the table, making each episode as informative as it is entertaining. From industry trends to must-know food safety news and regulations, they've got your back (and your lunch).
In essence, Don't Eat Poop! A Food Safety Podcast is not just about imparting information; it's about fostering a culture of food safety. By shedding light on the intricacies of the food supply chain and the latest food safety news, it aims to promote awareness and encourage responsible food practices among consumers and industry professionals alike.
When it comes to food safety, knowledge is power, and a good laugh is the best seasoning. At the heart of every episode is one golden rule: Don't Eat Poop!
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Allison: [00:00:00] I was pretty young. I think that was probably in my first year of doing inspections, and he was like, "Oh, I don't have it." He was just very stoic and very matter of fact, and he just pulled a machete in. He was just there sharpening his machete. He was just there staring at me, and I think it was to intimidate me, but it worked, 'cause I just wrapped the inspection up, and I'm like, "You know, we'll talk to you from the office," and I, I left.
Yeah
Intro: Everybody's gotta eat, and nobody likes getting sick. That's why heroes toil in the shadows, keeping your food safe at all points, from the supply chain to the point of sale. Join industry veterans Francine Elshaar and Matt Regusci for a deep dive into food safety. It all boils down to one golden rule: don't eat poop.
Don't eat poop.
Matt: Hello, hello, Francine.
Francine: Hey, Matt.
Matt: We have a really special guest on [00:01:00] today, Alison Richards. You may have seen her stuff online, and she goes by the Food Safety Girl, and Francine and I have been watching her TikToks and stuff on social media for a while now, and it's great. And so we are excited to have you on today, Alison.
Do you wanna talk a little bit about yourself?
Allison: Thank you. Thank you for having me, Matt and Francine. It's a pleasure to be here. So yes, the Food Safety Girl. I got into food safety primarily out university. I started working at a food safety agency with primary responsibility for inspecting food coming ashore, coming on our borders here in Jamaica.
And I think from there my love for food safety just grew, and it's been a little over 15 years, and that is really what I've been doing. I think doing inspections for so long, I realized that there was somewhat of a gap [00:02:00] between consumers understanding legal terms and the regulations and the laws, and the reason behind the Food Safety Girl is really just to break it down so others can really understand it and be informed.
Matt: It's so fun listening to your stuff, too, 'cause your, your humor is a lot like ours. So if people haven't found you yet, go look for Alison, because her stuff is very witty and clever and funny, and it is so good. 15 years- Yeah ... of food safety inspections in Jamaica. I can only imagine what you've seen.
Allison: Yeah, I've seen quite a lot.
I think it wore me out a bit. It's always something new, and talking about seeing a lot, I wanted to share, I'm not sure if you have seen the episode or the content I've been putting out in terms of the top five craziest inspection stories. That was an idea to give consumers or persons who are not really au fait with the industry [00:03:00] what really happens behind closed doors.
I've seen quite a few things in my day.
Matt: Okay, so before we go into the top five craziest things, because I know Francine and I wanna hear this because Francine wrote a book about all the crazy crap she's seen in the United States, so I can only imagine what you've gone through. I don't know, have you had a pu- gun pulled on you or anything like that?
But before we go into that, how long have you been doing your social media, and where can people find you?
Allison: Oh, so it's been three years. November next month will actually be three years since I've started the platform full time. And I'm available across all social media accounts, TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram.
Yeah, I'm pretty much everywhere in terms of content. I also write for my local newspaper on a Thursday, just sharing in food safety information for persons who are more interested in reading versus watching videos.
Matt: Nice.
Francine: Which one of those platforms is the most popular for you?
Allison: I'd say Instagram. [00:04:00] So I have a little over 6,000 followers there.
Yes, and then coming in after would be TikTok, probably about half that, and then LinkedIn would be coming in at third.
Francine: Wow.
Matt: I don't use TikTok or Instagram much, but when I do, you pop up. It's like I'll get something from my family or from Francine or something like that, and I will open- Yeah ... it up, and then I'll be like, "Oh, let's start scrolling," and then you pop up on there.
So whatever algorithm they figured out that I will like, they are correct because your stuff just popped up, and then I'm following you. Yeah.
Allison: I love that.
Francine: I think I saw you on LinkedIn. I think that's where I first saw you was ironically on LinkedIn. Yeah, I don't do a lot of other social media occasionally, but I think it was LinkedIn.
I do [00:05:00] occasionally. I'm starting to force myself to do more because we need to. Yes. We meaning us. Not them. But yeah, I, I think I found you on LinkedIn, and I'm like, "Oh my God, this lady is funny." And I love it when people can talk about food safety. I've always believed that food safety, even when I was training, food safety should be fun because people can relate- Yeah
relate better when they're having fun, and they learn more-
Allison: Yeah ...
Francine: when they're having fun.
Allison: Agreed. So. Agreed.
Francine: And I think that when we can go out there and talk about things that most people in our industry don't talk about- It makes us much more relatable
Allison: Yeah, that's the feedback I've gotten a lot of times from persons.
'Cause I do know quite... Having worked in the industry for some time, and worked on committees that is cross-sectional, that's the feedback I often get from my colleagues. They're like, "You know, this is such good thing." It's like you think of it, but it's not something you're able to execute. So once they see someone doing it, they're like, "Yeah.[00:06:00]
Good, good job."
Matt: Yeah, and Francine and I are always trying to find people in the food safety world that are doing stuff similar to us, and giving them a platform too. Like, "Hey, let's talk about this." Because there needs to be more- Yeah ... there needs to be more people making- Conversation ... food safety, like a conversation.
Yeah, exactly. And fun. 'Cause food safety, if you're not making it fun, it can be- It can be
Allison: boring ...
Matt: it is very boring.
Allison: It can be boring, yeah.
Matt: Yeah.
Francine: Well, real world is that if you don't work in the industry, and you're talking food safety, it is boring. Yeah. Nobody wants to hear the technical part of it unless you're working in the industry.
If you can't make it in layman terms and make it fun, they really just check out in the first five words.
Allison: I agree. I agree, Francine. Yeah.
Matt: All right, so I'm dying to hear. Okay, so tell us your top five... What did you call it? [00:07:00]
Allison: Um, crazy inspection stories.
Matt: Yeah, I want to hear them. Top
Allison: five... Yeah. So there wasn't a gun, but it was a machete.
Someone pulled a machete during an inspection. The inspection really wasn't going the way they hoped it would, and he, he wasn't really saying much. He just grabbed his machete, and he started sharpening his machete. And I'm like, "Maybe it's time for me to get out of here." So that's how that inspection ended.
Another one that was really crazy- Whoa, wait, wait, wait, hold on a second. Okay, okay, okay, hold on a second.
Francine: Well, just grabbed the machete. That's how it ended. Move on.
Allison: I am a context guy. Okay, so the... So you're over there doing an inspection of what? So it's a, he has like a retail shop. Yeah, it was a retail shop.
And there was just some, a lot of things he didn't have in place, like, you know, documentation, in terms of infrastructure wasn't there. Everything I asked for that was on my checklist, he never had it. And I was pretty [00:08:00] young. I think that was probably in my first year of doing inspections. And he was like, "Oh, I don't have it."
He was just very stoic and very matter of fact, and he just pulled a machete. And he was just there sharpening his machete. He was just there staring at me. And I think it was to intimidate me, but it worked, 'cause I just wrapped the inspection up, and I'm like, "You know, we'll talk to you from the office."
And I, I left, yeah
Matt: Wow. So you're in his store, and you're asking him questions, and he's like, "Nope, don't got that. Nope, don't got that. Nope, don't got that." And then all of a sudden you hit a certain threshold of questions, and he decided, "Okay, I'm just gonna pull this machete out and start sharpening it, and see what this young lady has to say"?
Allison: Yeah. He wasn't loud. He wasn't boisterous. He wasn't being aggressive. He just... I think it was just, I mean, he was just, just being subliminal. He's like, "You know?"
Matt: Wow. Okay. You had just graduated college.
Allison: Yeah. I was fresh out of university, my first inspection job. I think it may have been my first out of [00:09:00] town job, because we, I had to probably drive, like, maybe an hour or two hours to get to that town, that particular township.
I was away from home as well. It was pretty scary in the moment, but just looking back 15 years, a bit, it's funny. It's not funny, but it's just very wild.
Francine: I mean, yeah, right. So I've talked several times about the time the guy, gentleman got the gun out whenever I was doing the inspection because he failed his.
I was training somebody when that happened, and she was filling out the form. And as she was filling out the form, she was supposed to write the word gasket, right? And we were sitting there filling this out, and she was supposed to write the word gasket. She inadvertently wrote, you were talking about subliminal, she, she inadvertently wrote casket instead of gasket.
Matt: Oh, wow. We
Francine: laughed for years about that
Matt: Wow But okay, so this is commitment, Allison. So this is one of your first [00:10:00] inspections. You're like, what- Yeah ... 20, 22 years old or something like that?
Allison: Around 22, 23 years old,
Matt: yeah. You're an hour or two away from home. Some guy pulls a machete out, starts sharpening it.
You're like, "I, all good. I'll talk to you from the office." Yeah. And then you stayed for another 14 years or 15 years. Francine, did your trainee stay, or did she leave after getting a gun pulled- She stayed ... and writing casket on the-
Francine: She stayed.
Allison: Oh, good.
Francine: I had two people I was training that stayed through bad experiences.
Allison: Nice. I attribute it to youthful exuberance. I think- ... think a, yeah, youthful exuberance. That's what it was for me. Youthful exuberance. Oh, that's awesome. Okay, that was one
Matt: story. There's four more to go.
Allison: Yeah.
Matt: All right, so let's hear another one.
Allison: Yes. This lady, she told me I had to take my shoe off to get into her house.
So there's a cottage-based... We do have a pretty big cottage-based industry [00:11:00] here in Jamaica, and I remember showing up to do the inspection, and she's like, "You have to take your shoe off." So I'm like, "Mm, that doesn't really happen." So eventually she did let me enter her space, but it was a very tumultuous relationship moving forward.
She reported me to my superiors saying that I was talking her business. I think she just had a problem with compliance, like she had products that kept failing tests, and she wasn't very fond of me for whatever reason. But she, yeah, she insisted I had to take my shoe off Which if you're a germophobe like me, that doesn't really work.
Francine: So I love it. Like, that just doesn't really happen. No, I'm not taking my shoes off.
Allison: Yeah.
Matt: Was the place pretty dirty? Wasn't the cleanest.
Allison: So that, and outside of that, just the, the nature of her production, it was juices, so it's not something I would really want to step into bare feet, so. And then there was a lady who held me hostage inside of her store.
She really... [00:12:00] Inspection really wasn't going well. You know, I wrote the statement. There's a statement we usually write to wrap, to summarize our inspections. Like, you know, this mat failed to meet the requirements for registration. And sh- when she read it, she just lost it, and she had me locked up in her store.
I was trying to get out of it. I'm like, "You know, it's okay. You have time to correct whatever it is that you haven't fixed." And she just went off. And I tried to get the situation under control until she eventually, I guess, caught herself, and she apologized profusely, and I got out. And then she reported me to my superiors, and that was a whole thing because eventually I was told that she confessed that the word failed really ticked her off.
That was that trigger word for her. And it was funny because my superiors told me that I shouldn't use the word failed when I'm writing up her inspect. I'm like, "But she failed, right? I d- what, how do you... What word do you use?" So that was, uh, pretty crazy, but [00:13:00] she locked me into her store and told me that I had to stay until she felt like the inspection was over, and she was paying to get this inspection done, and she needed to have it done.
It was a really crazy time.
Matt: Okay, so again, context here. When you say she held you hostage, did she, like, lock the door and not let you out from- Yeah ... inside?
Allison: Yeah. The doors were locked 'cause this was during COVID, by the way, so that's when, you know, you had a lot of restrictions. So the doors were locked, and I was locked inside, and she had staff members who she instructed not to communicate with me.
So from the first red flag from when I entered the store was I said, "Hello," and her team member just ignored me. She just pretended I wasn't standing there. She didn't say hi. She didn't interact with me. She gave them instructions not to communicate with the inspector. It was, in retrospect, I'm like, "That should have been my first tell to cancel that."
I
Francine: want you to understand that when I laugh- It's because I 100% understand. [00:14:00]
Matt: Yeah.
Francine: Because I've been in situations that I get the police department on speed dial because we were in situations where we weren't sure we were gonna live. Yeah. I get it.
Matt: So she then locks you in. Her staff is not allowed to talk to you.
She locks you in after you said the word failed?
Allison: She locked me in when I got inside. So she locked the door behind us to do the inspection, and then when it got to her head, I was like, "Okay, you know, like, this is time where this, we could end the inspection. You could take up whatever matter you have. I'll just leave."
And she insisted that I stay. I was not allowed to leave. She's not gonna unlock the door.
Francine: But it was during COVID. That's why she locked the doors when you got there, right? Yeah, I
Matt: got
Francine: it. Yeah. It was during COVID. That's why- Yeah ... yeah. Yes. Okay. And then she wouldn't unlock them so she could leave.
Matt: I understand the whole, like, you have to lock the doors so that people can't come in, but I don't believe in [00:15:00] COVID that you were locking the doors to keep people from w- going out.
That sounds like a, a, a new regulation. Not
Francine: typically.
Matt: And so then it sounds like it was already hostile to begin with. So you walk in, she locks the door. Her whole team is not allowed to talk to you. So it sounds like she already probably knew that she was going to fail, and then was making excuse for her craziness by you saying the word fail.
Allison: I feel that way, 'cause there are things I asked her for, and she kept giving some excuses like, you know, like, she moved recently. She's misplaced the documents. And that's fine, but you still don't have them, so I have to do my job. So I, I felt like she... And, and this was a client that we had to switch inspectors for.
She's always been problematic, so I came into the space feeling like I was this agent of change and I could really get her to, to conform, but she had other plans.
Francine: So typically, [00:16:00] when the people in our districts or whatever are doing well, they're not locking us in or breaking out the machetes or the guns.
That doesn't usually happen.
Matt: I, I still think it's crazy though. So you get to the office, and then she says her trigger word is fail, and then you get in trouble by your superiors for saying... So you, she held you hostage- Yeah ... and then you get in trouble.
Allison: Yeah.
Matt: And how many years into this were you when this happened?
Allison: Maybe seven, eight. Maybe eight. Yeah.
Matt: And so you stay
Allison: on another- This was about- ...
Matt: that was halfway into your careers. Congratulations. You're just succeeding
Allison: on this commitment side of things, man. For being fair, I think I had way more positive experiences than negative ones. Yeah. Right, right
Matt: 15 years
Allison: you're doing, you're talking about your craziest five experiences,
Matt: so.
Yeah, yeah. And even if they are one in every five years, that's not bad, or three years, that's not bad. Right, [00:17:00] right.
Francine: It's just that when they're bad, they're typically really bad.
Allison: Right, yeah.
Matt: All right, these are two great stories.
Francine: You had a post I just recently saw, and I don't know, maybe it just recently came across my feed, maybe it's been up a while, I don't know, but there was a foreign material complaint has legs.
Remember that one? I died. It was hysterical. What was that?
Allison: Yeah, so it's a ice pop, and it has a cockroach leg sticking out, so it would look, it would seem like the cockroach was frozen inside the popsicle. So that was actually a AI-generated image, because there's no real photo, but in my time during inspections, I've come across those things, like persons finding insects inside their ready-to-eat products.
So the idea behind it really was just to have persons... I realized that those type of content really does well where persons are like, "Oh, my God," it's that wow factor, just like how you found it [00:18:00] interesting, Francine. So it's, it speaks to, I try to create content that is relatable, 'cause we do really have a, I don't, I wouldn't say a poor food safety culture here in Jamaica.
I think there's a lot to be improved. I get it all the time on my platform. Persons will literally cuss me out. They're like, "Lady, go to hell. We've been doing this for so long." So I think the idea is really just to get the engagement, to get people talking, and it's a lived experience. It's a lived experience.
Francine: Right, right. Well, and it's a platform. You're gonna have doing it-
Allison: Yeah ...
Francine: right. You're gonna have the good and the bad. Yeah. It's just, it's the way it works, and that gets the interaction. More people look at it, more people learn. The other one was the oxtail or kangaroo.
Allison: Yes, so that is a thing in Jamaica now where they are adamant that we've, we're being fed kangaroo instead of oxtail.
Which is funny to me when I just saw it because kangaroo is somewhat of a delicacy. It's not cheap. It's not ex- inexpensive, so I'm like, "Oh [00:19:00] my God, here we go again." But it's a whole thing where persons are really convinced that we're being fed or imp- we're importing kangaroo tail instead of oxtail, which I don't think so, but they believe so.
So I kinda had to break it down to be like, it's not just all vibes. It's really just down to DNA testing.
Francine: That happens periodically here with the burgers that certain fast food restaurants, quick service restaurants use. There'll be this rumor that goes like wildfire through Facebook or something that they're importing the ground beef and it's kangaroo meat or something instead of ground beef.
It's like, get a grip. What makes you think that? But yeah, and your description and your analogies and your... They just, you're very good at it. So yeah, those were great.
Matt: So you're saying the culture of food safety in Jamaica over the last 15 years, 'cause you started, you've been doing this for 15 years. You started in what?
[00:20:00] 2007?
Allison: 2011. Around that time, yeah.
Francine: We don't do math
Matt: 2011. So from like 2000... Yeah, I've, uh, uh, c- I started yeah, I started a little early.
Francine: Matt doesn't do math.
Matt: So financial math, great. Years, not so much. Okay, so over the last 15 years, what is the biggest change you've seen in Jamaica food safety-wise?
Allison: Probably not the biggest, but noticeable to me, so I think with our food tourism, 'cause people are literally coming to Jamaica to try our jerk chicken.
There's literally food tourism here. And I remember back in the day, you'd go to a hotel, and there would really not be much focus on allergen control. So you'd go, you'd just walk up to a buffet. But now, the more I visit these hotels, I'm realized even as a guest, not even as an inspector, but you go to these hotels as a guest, and they're actually being accountable.
They're asking you, they're saying, "Do you have an allergy?" And they're taking... When you're on check-in, they're asking you if you have any allergies. So I think that is a pretty impressive step for me. I [00:21:00] think persons, and even now when I do trainings, that is something, a disconnect I really realize, that persons really don't think about how an alle- the exposure to an allergen can really cause someone to die.
It's simple as eating peanuts while you're handling a non-allergenic food. So I think that has been a huge step. I think that I would say that was a major move for me in terms of... And I think that that's one of the reasons why I created a platform, 'cause there's really no one in Jamaica talking about food safety.
There's no one on social media talking about food safety, and I felt like consumers are really the agents of change. They're the ones spending. They're, they have the spending power. If you're not doing what you should be doing as the government or the food manufacturer, the consumers knowing what to expect are the ones who will really drive that change.
So I think I would say the consumer education is, has definitely improved, and I will tap my own shoulders and say I, I do play a part in that [00:22:00]
Matt: Very good
Francine: Good for you
Allison: And I just wanted to share this story. Just the other day, a farmer had shared some chicken or video of some chickens he raised that was deemed unfit for consumption by the, the local public health.
And I didn't plan to comment on it primarily because there tends to be a bit of a territorial thing going on in food safety, and I just decided to leave it alone. I didn't want it to become political, 'cause I try to stay away from that. And I got about 15 messages from strangers like, "Hey, we need to hear what you have to say about this."
And I'm like, okay. Even someone from the local media reached out and they're like, "What are your thoughts on this?" And that's when I realized how important and how, what the, the role I play in all of this. So when I eventually made the video and I posted it, there were so many persons in the comments.
They're like, "Oh my God, we were waiting to hear your input on this." And it really does reinforce the importance of what I'm doing. Persons want to hear, even though they might think it, they really want to hear someone talking about it, so.
Matt: That's awesome.
Allison: Yeah.
Francine: Yeah.
Matt: That's awesome. [00:23:00] We talk about that all the time, that the whole point of food safety is to make products safe for consumers, and the more consumers understand what needs to be done, and the more they're expecting, there is a disconnect because I think consumers just assume that their food is safe- Yeah
not really playing a part or participating in making sure that is the case. And when consumers play a part in that and then put their precious resources, like their dollars, towards it, then all of a sudden that was what moves the needle the most, is when brands realize that, hey, like, I need to get on board or else I'm going to lose consumers.
Well, losing consumers means losing money, and that's the whole reason why they're in business.
Allison: Yeah.
Matt: So we've heard two stories. I need to hear a third one.
Allison: I'm trying to remember the others I had shared, 'cause there, I didn't share a few, but there are others. I remember going to I think I learned of a bagged [00:24:00] drink.
It was a juice or water facility that they were packaging water, and of course during the inspection there was no water treatment. There was nothing. There was just literally tap water being packaged. Yeah, you know, it was really one of those moments, and I real- what... So one of the things I found out a lot during my time doing inspections is that there wasn't any ill intent behind it.
It was more like, "This is what I'm doing to make some money, and this is how I'm gonna make it work," but they're not really thinking about the safety aspect of it. So I spent a lot of my inspection years teaching my manufacturers, and even now some of these manufacturers, I still have great relationships with them.
And really just because of even though as a regulator you're expected to enforce the law, I had a way of helping motivating them and convincing them to do it. So I, I always maintain a high registration rate for my portfolio clients because it was really just developing somewhat of a relationship to get [00:25:00] them to become compliant.
Francine: Several years ago, I was working in Peru, and we were at the local market, big local market, huge, where everybody got up and went, especially on the Saturday morning. Really hot out There was a lady sitting out on the step, big galvanized tub full of a beverage. I'm not sure exactly what the beverage was.
She had empty water bottles that looked like this and a ladle, and she was filling those bottles up with whatever was in that galvanized tub and putting the lid on it and selling them. Now, of course, I was a little mesmerized that this was happening, because I'm just like, "Wow." What? "
Matt: I'm
Francine: not sure what's happening here," but I'm looking at it, and my face is very readable.
You don't ever need to ask me [00:26:00] what I'm thinking, 'cause it's, like, right here. And she was not happy, and before I even realized what I was doing... I have a short video of it, but yeah, she was not happy. But she yelled at me, called me a gringo, and yeah, I was just a little bit surprised about it that everybody's buying it and leaving it and le- walking away with their beverage, and they were happy.
But yeah.
Allison: Yeah, I've, I've been in, in restaurants to do inspections, and the crowd is, you know, of a, of a particular economic standing, and the nose are flared up. And when I go into the back to do the inspection, I'm like, "Maybe you wanna spend your money elsewhere."
Francine: Right, right.
Allison: There was time during my inspection years when I just never ate out.
I would, uh, like, if I saw a new restaurant, I'd be like, "I need to go inspect this place," but then when I go, I'm like, "Maybe I wouldn't go back." So [00:27:00] I... And I had to... Was sworn into secrecy by the government, so my friends would always, they always used me as the, the kind of like, "Allison, we wanna go here.
Should we go?" I'm like, "Sure, you can go." And they're like, "But is it safe?" They're like, "What does it say?" Wherever you wanna
Francine: go.
Allison: And I'm like, "Uh, cancer. Have fun." So it was really, it really has changed my outlook on eating out. And I think just persons not, as I said, not being aware. Everyone is trying to cut costs, but they're not really thinking about the implications, and that, that is where the danger is.
Francine: Right. Right. So I read somewhere, I think, that you speak a little bit about food insecurity. Yeah. Or you're involved. Did I... Is that correct? Do you wanna talk about that
Allison: or- Yes. Yes. Um, sure. So food insecurity for us here in Jamaica, being in a, a carbon island, we're predisposed to, you know, hurricanes or other weather events, has really been an issue.
I remember some time ago [00:28:00] writing an article, and I was contacted by the vice president of a company, which it made me feel good, 'cause it means that these people are reading my articles. However-
Francine: 100, 100% ...
Allison: um, you know, yes. The discussion was really about writing the article. We're not food insecure. We're able to provide food.
I, I had a discussion to say that food insecurity has so many components. There's food availability. You, you have 1,000 units of food. However, are persons able to access it?
Francine: Mm.
Allison: Right? Is it nutritious to your body? What... Is it safe? And how stable is that supply? So for example, in Jamaica, if we have a hurricane event, we may have where after the storm a farmer is stuck with tons of tomato, but that is in the further end of the island.
But in, uh, Kingston, in the metropolitan area, we can't get tomato, or tomato is so expensive. So that is in food insecurity because, yes, we are producing [00:29:00] thousands of pounds of tomato, but one, it's expensive, two, there's no access to it literally, physically because of logistical issues, probably floodings.
The roads are flood, the farmlands are flood. The farm roads are horrible in terms of just having craters. So, you know, is it nutritious? So persons may be able to buy fast food. That is a form of insecurity because is it... It's really not nutritious to you. It's, it's cheaper, but what nutritional value does it bring to you?
You might eat it. You may become sick. You have diarrhea. And in Jamaica, unfortunately or culturally, we self-diagnose foodborne illnesses, so there isn't much of a strong surveillance system. But once we get foodborne illnesses, it's often attributed to having gastroenteritis. We have gas, and the solution to gas in Jamaica is to drink ginger tea.
So we self-diagnose. We're not going into the doctor. You know, there's no feeding system where the doctor will [00:30:00] have CDs symptoms and they're realizing that, "Hmm, this might be an outbreak." There isn't much of that, so that is a concern. So I have recently been involved in discussions surrounding food insecurity, 'cause as I said, the misconception is just about the production of food, but it's not the other aspects of it in terms of are persons able to afford it?
The inf- there's an inflation, the economy is really in a bad state. There are persons who just cannot afford to feed themselves. So there, that, that's a discussion I, I've, I've been having with, in spaces where I'm given the opportunity to do so.
Matt: It is everywhere that this is the problem as well Mm-hmm And do you guys have in Jamaica a problem where the produce is, there's plenty of produce outside of Kingston, but it just can't even get into Kingston because of- Mm-hmm
cold chain issues, because of all... That is, that, that to
Allison: me- Yeah ...
Matt: is the saddest thing
Allison: So cold chain, cold, yeah. Cold chain management is something [00:31:00] that I think in a tropical country is very hard to maintain. And two, in terms of infrastructure, so recently our agricultural ministry has been working towards creating cold chain locations that is available, 'cause they really don't, they, if they do exist, it's privately owned.
So I think the government is now making moves towards having farmers being able to access these cold chain management storage. And of course, with cold chain, that extends the shelf life of a lot of produce. But it is a challenge. And with the cost of energy in terms of generating cold air, that is also a concern.
So, like in the countryside, produce could be just rotting. Pretty much. Country, yes Um, from time to time on our news, during in the news, you'll, you'll see farmers complaining, or even on social media they'll post that you have a whole bunch of... And we do have agencies that are tasked with the responsibility of creating that bridge.
So what we have now is, um, we were seeing more of an emerging culture [00:32:00] of farmers markets, and that is why that was really created. I think it has existed in the US for quite some time, but, you know, as a developing country, which persons are now buying into these ideas. So you'll have private entities who will literally create somewhat of a social responsibility project where they help a group of farmers bringing their produce into and creating the avenue for them to sell.
So maybe as a large organization, you'll have the farmers come up, set up, and then the staff would come out and support and, and purchase, which would otherwise would not happen. Yeah. So there, there's some work taking place. It might be a bit slow, but I think we're mo- we're heading in the right direction.
Matt: I get asked at conferences and stuff like this, or like on interviews or whatever, what I believe the biggest innovation in food safety is. And every single time I say cold chain. Cold chain is the biggest innovation in food safety. We have a ton of other innovations in food safety. Don't get me wrong, all these innovations are- Mm-hmm
are great. [00:33:00] But in so many countries that are having problems with exactly what you're talking about, they also produce so much produce. They produce so much- Yeah ... food. It's just not getting to where the population is, and that infrastructure is so important. And there's so many different variables to this, like when we're talking about other- Yeah
countries that have civil wars and you have people that, that are doing roadblocks and road checkpoints with guns and stuff like that. It's so difficult to get the, where it's food from it's grown to the city side because by the time you get to the city, you have nothing left. But that whole f- that whole thing to me is just the saddest part of developing countries or, you know, third world countries.
Not even developing countries, but third world countries where it's like there's so much is being grown, but it can't get to where people are, and that is the biggest, to me, human crisis there is
Allison: Yeah, and I, I agree with you because even at home, I tend to freeze a lot. I do a lot of [00:34:00] freezing of fresh produce, and it's really for that very reason, because just the extension of life, not be cooking as often as I'd love to.
So instead of wasting that food, I chop them up, I wash them, and freeze them. I think I would add to the number one innovation, I think canning has done a lot, especially here in Jamaica. I think, one, for cultural reasons, we have a huge diaspora, so persons, they're ... Like our curried goat, we have companies who are literally canning our curried goat, our mannish water, which is that goat soup.
We have our canned ackees, which is a huge industry, and actually one of our major exporters. Our countries that we export to is actually the US for canned ackee. So canning has done so much. A, a lot of persons flack it because, primarily because they're saying, you know, there's preservatives, whatever.
Always it's just literally salt and, and water. But yeah. I even have a video s- I have a video scheduled to post soon about frozen plantains. I saw a local company selling frozen plantain, and a, like a influencer was [00:35:00] posting about frying, and the comments were crazy. Persons are like, "Oh, why are we freezing plantain?"
I'm like, "It's literally plantain in the freezer to help." So I think there's a lot of misconception about just slowing down deterioration that persons really don't tend to understand. And I think canning has ... Jamaica, where we have such a lot of seasonal foods, it really has helped us to enjoy stuff. And especially now with our we- you know, the, the El Niño, there is climate change, a lot of these natural products are dwindling in terms of the yield.
So canning for me is a pretty important innovation.
Matt: Oh, I'm gonna add that as well. Canning and cold chain. But canning's been around for a long time. It is funny when you ... 'Cause you hear... I totally agree with you two about the process. Mm-hmm. But like, definition of what's processed, what's ultra-processed, all this different type of stuff.
Allison: Yeah.
Matt: We've been processing food since the dawning of time. Like smoking fish, smoking [00:36:00] meat.
Allison: Cutting, even, even cutting. You're cutting up some vegetables. Yes. That is processing. Uh,
Matt: yes.
Francine: I, okay,
Matt: we
Francine: have
Matt: to- Yeah ... like understand that processing food- Yeah ... is pretty important to making sure that we can consume food- Yeah
all year round every day of the year. Now, adding a whole bunch of stuff to make it taste really good and all this, uh, okay, I can get, I can get behind adding a whole bunch of different stuff. Fine. If that's not your jam, then that's not your jam. But even jam, we add stuff to that. We have since the beginning of time.
Francine: Okay, I don't. But I wanna know where I can pick up some of these frozen plantains. That's what I wanna know. I love those things. That and jerk chicken- Yeah ... I could just live on for about a month.
Matt: Oh, I love
Allison: jerk chicken.
Francine: Awesome. Love it.
Allison: It's just main staple and, you know, that's something I am, I'm not sure how I'll do it, but I, I'd love to change the narrative around our street food here in Jamaica.
We have a huge street food culture, which is [00:37:00] really under-regulated, so that is something, and I'm looking forward to some... I have some projects working on for the n- next year, and I'm hoping I'll be able to touch on street food. 'Cause it, it is our tourism. It... People, I know persons who literally, like, I have friends who live overseas, and the first stop when they come is to get jerk chicken.
People are literally making time to visit home just to eat, to indulge in the food for no other reason but because it's very good. So I think it's important for us to formalize that sector. You know, the other day I posted content on the jerk. Who washes this jerk pan? Where is the jerk pan stored? What is your jerk man doing when you're not buying jerk chicken?
So of course, that created a whole thing, but it, these are import-... 'Cause a, a lot... I've, I've had jerk chicken and I've had foodbor- I've got bad vomiting, diarrhea, and I know it's poor food safety practice. But persons probably attribute it to, "Oh, I, I haven't, I didn't eat all day," or it may have been something else.
So it's really just starting the discussion and having these persons [00:38:00] understand that it's the smallest things that really do impact consumers.
Matt: But Allison, if they wash their jerk chicken pan, then they lose all the flavor from all the years that they've had, uh, that
Francine: jerk chicken. All that seasoning, it's gone.
Matt: It's gone.
Allison: Or are you in the comments, Matt, that I got all of those?
Francine: No, but we've worked with people.
Matt: Yeah. I had a company in Brazil, and my business partner and I go to Brazil all the time, and we... Same thing. There's, like, a street food thing in Brazil, and I'm like, "Oh, let me, we should try that out." And he's like, "Nah."
I'd be with my team and stuff, and they're like, "Nah, I'm sure they use dog at that booth." And I'm like, "There's a long line. If they're using dog, that dog tastes pretty damn good." Like, "Should we try it?" And they're like, "No, Matt, no. We're good."
Allison: That sounds good logic. I am there with you Yeah.
Francine: So when you get that street food thing figured out, you let us know because we've got some things we need to figure out here as well.[00:39:00]
Allison: Yeah. It's
Francine: not just there. I think
Allison: a good, good step is really just maybe having committed spaces for them, 'cause it's very informal. It's kinda like I'm at home, I need to make some money, and I set up a jerk pan on, at my gate. So it's very informal. There's no really no coding or, or zoning as it relates to, to street food here, so.
Matt: Oh.
Allison: But I think where... Yeah, so that for me would be a priority.
Francine: So what you're saying is that jerk chicken I bought on the beach when I was there-
Allison: Yeah, I'm... It's very informal, so if I as the food safety girl decide that this is an avenue I could make some money, I could literally be like, "Hey, it's food safety Fridays.
Order jerk chicken from the food safety girl." And-
Francine: I don't wanna know ...
Allison: you know, it's really just- We'll just leave it off right there ... that informal I wanna know. Once the flavor, once, once you purchased and the food is good, people will always come back and buy. There's no question as to whether I have a Food Handlers.
They're gonna see who man the food safety girl, so yeah. So [00:40:00] that, that is really, um-
Francine: Ignorance is bliss, Allison. Ignorance is bliss. I always know that. I always know. So I also wanna give you an opportunity to talk about women in food safety
Allison: Sure, yes. So that is something I, every time I hear the name or we meet in our chapters meeting, I always, I think I smile more than everybody in m- in that meeting.
For the longest time, coming out of high s- or out of university and coming into the industry, I felt like I had to really navigate the space by my, on my own, you know, finding things to do, and there wasn't really much of that support, especially from female counterparts. So when I came across Women in Food Safety and Melody on LinkedIn, I was like, "Now listen, this is such an opportunity to, to tap in."
I remember commenting on a post, I'm like, "Hey, how do I get involved? How do I become a part of something like that?" And I remember when Melody, she's like, "Maybe we could do a Caribbean chapter," and I'm like, "Uh, perfect." [00:41:00] So having started The Food Safety Girl, there are so many persons who I would have met over the years of doing inspections, either at their facilities or really just sitting on committees with them, where I know there was a need for that womanhood.
So when she made the suggestion, I'm like, "This is something I definitely could consider doing." So on January of this year, I believe, you know, I was appointed as a chapter director for the Caribbean Women in Food Safety, and we've had meetings, we have quarterly meetings, and the idea for me and the vision I see for this chapter is really just creating a space that doesn't exist in Jamaica.
It's a space where women are free to share the, the challenges that they have, because I know what those challenges are, and as I said, I never had that type of support. So even through, and before I got onto WiFS, that was something that a lot of young persons would reach out. They were like, "Hey, how do I get into food safety?
What do I do?" And that was something I always felt like I needed to, [00:42:00] it's a duty I needed to share. And this platform, the WiFS platform, has created that. So many persons have reached out. They're like, you know, "I love..." In the meetings, they tend to be very quiet. We have WhatsApp groups where I'm trying to boost the engagement.
They don't really respond there, but I'm always getting the, the private feedback. You know, this is such a good movement. They're excited for it to grow, and next week, Wednesday, is actually our third meeting for the year since we've started, and it keeps growing. We have our plans in terms of how we're gonna grow the chapter, and I also, I don't know if it's I'm being premature, but I want to take the opportunity to congratulate Francine on being the North America director for WiFS.
I think we have a long way to go. It's gone a long way, and I'm really just excited about where it's gonna take us
Francine: Thank you. I can't think of anybody better to be in Jamaica and taking care of that than you. You're perfect.
Allison: Thank you.
Francine: So [00:43:00]
Allison: thank
Francine: you.
Allison: Thank you, Francine.
Matt: I didn't even know. I talk to Francine multiple times a week, and I d- when, when we were talking about this interview with you, she never said that you were the chapter lead in Women in Food Safety down there, so that's awesome.
Allison: Yeah, yeah. It's something that I'm working on getting the name out there. I think we are even considering our first international retreat to be in Jamaica, so I'm happy and looking forward to that. It's been an honor just sitting alongside persons. And, you know, even though the idea is for persons to provide mentorship, just during this short time, I've learned so much from Melody and Damaris.
It's been truly a real treat for me.
Matt: That's great. I may as well just say, too, like anybody who wants to hear Melanie Yee talk about Women in Food Safety, Francine and I have an episode of that as well. She's absolutely amazing.
Allison: She is.
Francine: Mm-hmm.
Matt: Absolutely amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And women really make food safety in the world actually work.[00:44:00]
Yeah.
Francine: Well, thank you, Matt.
Matt: Yeah. I mean, after 25 years of doing this, like I... Just 100%.
Allison: As you said that, I, I'm trying to recall, like just throughout my, the thousands of inspections I've done, I th- really think women do lead in food safety, uh, positions, if I'm being honest. There's some, yeah, there's that observation.
And thank you for acknowledging that. I think that's an, an important discussion.
Francine: His wife has done a really good job of whipping him into shape in his support of women in general.
Matt: Yeah, since I was 16. Yeah. The amount of stuff women are able to do in a day, it just blows me away. The amount of stuff my wife is able to get done, managing the house, and all the stuff, and I'm like, "Okay, yes, I'll just, I'll do what you tell me to do, hon.
Just where, where do you want me to put, pitch in?"
Allison: It works, it works, it works. Yeah.
Matt: Great. Well, this was fantastic. And we haven't told you this yet, but at some point in time we're gonna have you on again because you are so much fun. You are so much fun.
Francine: Yeah. [00:45:00]
Allison: It was fun.
Matt: You
Francine: do a phenomenal job down there.
Allison: Thank you. That means a lot.
Francine: You should be recognized for that.
Allison: Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Francine: I don't freely hand out compliments.
Matt: Yeah. And Allison, don't eat poop