This podcast was born from a belief that meaningful growth doesn’t happen overnight. The things that really matter—in life, business, art, relationships—often take time, patience, and unseen investment. And yet, we live in a culture that constantly pulls us toward immediacy: fast food, AI, and overnight success stories.
But the reality is:
Anything truly worth building usually takes time. Success doesn't arrive in an instant.
We take the time to ask our amazing guests, what are the things that are worth putting in the time and investing in, even if we don’t see results for a long time?
2. Ted - Main - audio
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[00:00:00] Welcome to the Bamboo Method, investing in the unseen. They say good things come to those who wait. But in today's convenience driven world, we live in a culture that is constantly pulling us towards immediacy, fast food, two day shipping and overnight success stories. It seems more difficult than ever to stick it out and wait.
The reality is anything worth building usually takes time. Success doesn't come at an instant. So we're here to ask what are the things worth putting in the time and investing in, even if we don't see the results? For a long time. Today's guest is Ted Kim, and if you've been around the art scene in bailing Montana, chances are you know Ted.
He's a staple in the creative community and is known for his enthusiasm, his generosity, his jokes and stories as we like to call them. Ted Talks, not to mention his wealth of knowledge and experience. Ted grew up in New York, studied in Chicago, and went to grad school for film at Columbia University.[00:01:00]
Spent his early career producing for networks in LA and international news in New York. But after a life-changing bike accident, Ted came to Billings, Montana, where he leveraged his large market experience. We create billings, open studio, a downtown production space, a creative hub for photographers and videographers.
But BOS is more than just a place to take photos and videos. It's an incubator for creativity and community. We've used TED for many of our own productions, and if you've seen any of our work that'll look good. You can thank Ted for that, whether that was him working directly on set. For all the knowledge we've learned from him over the years.
Ted, thanks for being here. Of course. Thanks for asking. Absolutely. Excited to chat with you. So our first question for you is personally. Mm-hmm. What in your life, and we talk about nurturing, investing in things that take time. Mm-hmm. What have you put effort towards maybe consistently days, weeks, months, that you didn't see fruit [00:02:00] over a period of time, but you kept doing it?
It could be something you're doing now that you believe in could be something in the past. Well, this is kind of a, a lifelong thing. My, my father, for better or worse was an academic in good and bad ways. And, um, you know, his whole idea was people should not pursue jobs to make money. What you should do is, uh, learn about.
The world life knowledge, the pursuit of knowledge was in its own. And so, you know, for me, um, I've always just loved reading and thinking about things. Yeah. And, um, you know, the political situation recently has been crazy. Um, and, uh, you know, that's been something, uh, that's been fascinating to me. And the end of the Cold War, like the history and all of this, [00:03:00] um.
Which has nothing to do with, uh, my professional life, but Sure. You know, I just, um, love putting historical events into context, I guess. Yeah. And seeing, um, how these things fit together and possibly how it plays out. Yeah. So would you say the consistent thing you're doing mm-hmm, mm-hmm. The nurturing, if you will mm-hmm.
Is, is it learning? Is it, um, gaining more information? Is it reading? What's, what would you say that the act is? Well, okay, so, not to get too abstract here, but, uh, my, my view of. Human knowledge is, um, you know, that it's basically patterns that we spend our whole lives, learning patterns, mathematics, algebra, biology, it's all patterns.
Learning how to make a marriage work, you know, it's like how do your patterns or behavior fit with this other person's patterns? And then. Create new patterns and you have the, [00:04:00] your kids. Yeah. And they represent a whole new set of independent patterns, which you have literally no control over. Right. They, they grow their own way.
And so, uh, you know, as far as my recent life, it's been trying to, um, understand, um, you know, how these patterns in my life have played out and as I enter my retirement, like would I. How I'm going to use those learned behaviors and improve on them or enjoy them or whatever. Maybe I'm going a little off track here, but my, my idea of happiness or contentment Yeah.
Is that you're gonna be happy if, as long as you have two good options in your life and you don't need money to. Be there at that position. In fact, what money does is money gives you more options. Sure. But if you're bad at making decisions, you're still gonna end up in a bad place. Right. [00:05:00] Yeah. So, uh, you know, it's the idea of delayed gratification mm-hmm.
That you have this goal and you're willing to delay immediate gratification mm-hmm. Um, to put yourself in a position where you'll have two good choices. Yeah. And you know, one of the signs of immaturity is immediate gratification. And so you, you say, I want that. You get it, you're in debt, but you don't have a second option.
Yep. You haven't delayed that gratification to give yourself that out. Yeah. At a later point in life. Yep. And in a certain way can call that wisdom. Yeah. Is always making decisions so that you know, you have this choice. Mm-hmm. This alternate. Good enough choice, so you'll be happy. Mm-hmm. Right. I the idea of delayed gratification mm-hmm.
In your picture of that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. What is that for you? Well, I think it's not just a professional or, um, [00:06:00] specific idea. It's simply taking a step back and saying, okay, um, before I make this decision, before I commit myself to this. Uh, what are my al alternatives? Uh, how could this possibly play out in the future?
Mm-hmm. Uh, and it's just a, a rule of thumb of living your life, you know, and it's not like a specific thing, such as if we schedule this scene for, you know, Wednesday and it rains, what do we do? You know, that, um, of course you have to make that decision eventually, right? Yeah. Hopefully sooner than later, but.
You know, just as a principle, like, you know, is this, is this project something which I really need to do now or is there an alternative? Sure. You know, um, and so this is something which I think a lot of people have trouble with when they're younger. Um, because you see something which you think is gonna make you happy.
Mm-hmm. And it may not in the long run. Mm-hmm. [00:07:00] And so the, the whole idea of taking a step back. Going, asking yourself, you know, is this, um, the best choice I can make at this point? Mm-hmm. Um, and then what's the, the price I pay and what's the payoff down the line? And that's a really hard, uh, decision to make because in a lot of ways that goes against biological evolution over, you know, a million years.
You know, it's like you're hungry, you eat that, but maybe if you plant it. Yeah. So it's maturity and it depends on, I think a lot of people's personalities, how long it takes for them to learn. Do you have any, I love that, um, either you eat it or you plant it. Right. Do you have anything in your life personally that you consistently chose to plant so that later you can eat?
Oh, I'm not a planner, I'm an eater. Yeah. That, that's been the main problem. Like, oh, look at that. Look at that. Look at that. Yeah. Um, credit card here. Aren't we all. [00:08:00] Uh, so yeah, I, it's, uh, it's something which I learned later in life, unfortunately. What were some of those catalysts for the change in perspective from realizing, oh, I'm an eater.
So when I was in LA I had an accident, right? So a bicycle accident, um, and I broke 10 vertebrae and, um, punctured lung, broken collarbone, uh, suffered a head trauma. I mean, it was pretty horrific. Yeah. And, um, the, the only thought in the hospital that I had, 'cause I thought I was gonna die, was, uh, you know, oh Lord, please let me see my friends and family once more before I pass.
Yeah. And it became a very simple and clear. Thing. I just, what was important? What's not? Yeah. Family and friends. Yeah. And I wanted to see them one more time. Mm. And the, the idea of, you know, the [00:09:00] TV projects, this and that, it's like, who cared? Yeah. It literally did not come into my mind at all. And so, you know, that stayed with me.
Mm-hmm. And, um, you know, there's nothing like a life and death experience to clear your head about what's important and what's not. And so, um, you know, being here in Billings definitely gave me a chance to, um, kind kind of rebuild my value system Yeah. In a very positive way. And, um, you know, once you've had that experience, everything else is kind of insignificant.
Yeah. That's a powerful experience. Yeah. I'm not saying Thateveryone should have it, but No. When something like that does happen to you, for better or worse, it is life changing. Yeah. And you got much more than that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, since then I've felt like I've just been in bonus time. Yeah. Wow.
You know, that I, I'm just so lucky to be here and, um, savor every moment. [00:10:00] Yeah. What a cool perspective. So, shifting to professionally mm-hmm. Um, which I know you're transitioning out of that mm-hmm. Type of mm-hmm. Um, role and mm-hmm. In the perspective. But what in your professional life did you continue to foster with patients knowing that eventually it was gonna produce results?
Well, I think, you know, getting back to my theory of patterns is your. Savings account of patterns mm-hmm. That you've accumulated. It's gonna be helpful no matter what you do, whether you're a writer, director, producer, um, you draw on all of these different experiences that you've noticed and you know, it informs your view of the world.
It informs your solutions to the problems you face, um, and it informs how you interact with other people. Because even if you're friends and you're working on a shoot together, you're gonna have different ideas, even [00:11:00] slight differences about how you want the scene to play out, how you shoot it, how you, and, you know, knowing the other person's patterns helps you negotiate that.
Mm-hmm. Um, and I think a lot of it is in, in life, realizing that your pattern of how you perceive things may not always be. The most important. Sure. And that you have to, uh, especially as a creative person, learn to, um, compromise what you want and how you see things with other people's life experiences and how they, and to give equal credence.
That said, a lot of the greatest directors in the world have been incredible narcissists who do the exact opposite. So take that with a grain of salt. Um, but as far as you know, I'm concerned. Um, tv, film, it's a team mm-hmm. Concept. And so, um, learning how other [00:12:00] people see the project, learning how other people want to execute and solve, you know, these problems, and giving them a chance to do it without.
So James Seamus, uh, my producing teacher, he had so many great aphorisms, uh, and, um, insights about the business. And one of the things he said was, you know, as a producer, you never wanna tell your director no. What you wanna tell your director is, we can do it, but you've gotta give this up. Mm-hmm. And so what you're doing there is giving.
The director, the burden of making that decision. Mm-hmm. And you're not the bad guy. Right? Yeah, for sure. I've heard you say that to me a number of times. Yeah. And you know, it's a, it's something which carries over to basically anything in life. Yeah. Talking to kids, talking to, you know, your life partner, whatever.
It's like, yeah, we can do that, but we've [00:13:00] gotta give this up. Yeah. And you know, that's really a fascinating way of, uh, making decisions because. You know, the opposite, which is much more prevalent, is saying, no, we don't have the money. Mm-hmm. And it's so much more positive to say, well, we can do it, but we've gotta give up half the scenes that you like.
And then you know, it's a win-win. Right? Yeah. Because they realize the situation and you haven't alienated them. And then when you, you know, do come to a decision, you're starting from a point of compromise to begin with. Yeah. There's a definite theme with you around just the people component mm-hmm. To how you operate.
That's, I know what I've experienced. Mm-hmm. And I'm curious how, how that developed, especially coming from. A scene where you said you were around a lot of narcissists and difficult people. Well, that was, that was la so Well, yeah. So, so, but you, but you were ingrained in this culture, right? That was Well, [00:14:00] very, um, cutthroat Get me to the top narcissistic, and I could, I could easily see someone from that if you come to, to Podunk.
Right, right. Little town buildings. Right, right. And that's your experience, right? You could just be like, guys, I'm, I'm the big man on town now. And, um, I know what to know. So like, gimme some space. Well, you have to realize that those, my Hollywood producing years was just two years of my life, the vast majority of my life.
Uh, professionally, it was in New York being a penniless writer, director, wannabe. Um, and so, yeah, and, and in film school, uh, especially at Columbia, it starts with teamwork. Sure. You know, you're assigned, uh, a group of people and you work together as a group. You know, everything is team oriented. Yeah. You know, a film set, it's all about teamwork.
Yeah. Um, and so you, you have to find people that you work well with. Uh, and, and [00:15:00] so one of the fascinating things about New York City. Uh, and it wouldn't work here because there's just not enough, um, industry to support it. But in a bigger city, the dynamic is that, um, you have these low budget film students and they have their thesis films or whatever projects to do.
Uh, they don't have much money, super low budget, no budget production. But, uh, what they do is they will bring, uh, on keys. Key positions, like, you know, gaffers, film set people, um, dps, and you will pay them a small amount. And what happens is that the DPS or the gaffers, they'll take on these no budget or low budget positions, jobs because they will be hired to work at a, a job description, one step higher.
Mm-hmm. So a gaffer who wants to be a DP will be hired as a dp. Okay. [00:16:00] They may very well be excellent. Mm-hmm. You know, um, and so what they do then is they bring on their key grip, um, and they build a team. And the key grips won't get paid oftentimes. Mm-hmm. But that gaffer slash dp, when they do get a commercial gig, they'll hire that.
Mm-hmm. Um, key grip. And so you have these relationships built up Yeah. Where you can get crews, professional union crews that basically work for free. Mm-hmm. And so, um, the environment there is all about building teams. You know, if you have a reputation as a jerk, um, you're gonna have a very hard time getting people to work for you.
Mm-hmm. Right? So, you know, it's. You learn very quickly. It's about cultivating relationships. Yeah. And treating people well. Yeah. And um, you know, there's [00:17:00] a multi-billion dollar industry built around people work, helping each other for free, you know, at the bottom level. Yeah. That's cool. You talk a lot about like the patterns that you're observing.
Mm-hmm. What patterns are most important to you? Oh gosh. Uh, I think the knowing thyself, you know, you go back to, um. The Greek philosophers and, um, you know, they, they have a lot of wisdom, believe it or not, for, uh, a society without the internet. Um, so yeah, knowing yourself, knowing why you do things and how you can become better.
Yeah. You know, what mistakes are you making, what makes you unhappy, and how to stop yourself from those patterns. And, um, learning as you grow up, like which are good for you and which are bad for you. You know, patterns which are good for some people may not be good for others, right? And so learning who you are [00:18:00] and what patterns help you make you happy and what other patterns you don't need and are destructive, right?
And so that is to me, like wisdom is learning. Um. Yourself. And from that, you're able to, uh, make other people happy. How do you learn more about yourself? How have you discovered yourself? What patterns are good? What patterns are bad? You know, and, and it's easy to say like, oh, what feels most natural?
Sometimes what feels most natural? Doesn't mean it's, you know, that's the eating, eating feels natural, right? Yeah, yeah. But now maybe needed to plant it. Yeah. So kind of putting all that into one question of how have you discovered yourself, what patterns to, that's a really good question to follow and who you are.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one of the, it's not destructive, you know? Right. I mean, one of the dangers of being too much of a planner is that you're never happy. Yeah. Because you're constantly putting off any form of gratification. If you feel happy, you feel guilty. Yeah. Right? [00:19:00] Mm-hmm. So, you know, there is that middle ground.
And so I think rephrasing your question as where is that middle ground? You know, middle ground? And you know, for me it comes down to one basic principle, which is if you think there's an important decision to be made, sleep on it. Don't make a decision when you first confront it. Hmm. Sleep on it. And then more often than not, it'll come to you.
Yeah. And, um, you know, maybe, um, if it doesn't ask a friend. Yeah. Um, you know, a lot of times what you think makes you happy will not make you happy and you're your own worst enemy. Yeah. When has that saved you from a bad decision? Oh my gosh. Um. My life is a series of bad decisions. Um, so mind you, a lot of this is purely academic.
Okay. [00:20:00] My patterns, I think what I've learned the most from is seeing how my older sister and my friends make their decisions. But was there, was there a time that there was a decision that you were confronted with mm-hmm. And you're like. Okay. I really wanna do this, but I'm gonna sleep on it. And then, and then you went the other way.
Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's, uh, a more recent thing. Okay. And by recent, I mean the past few years. Yeah. Um, you know, deciding to, uh, leave the business Yeah. Uh, the studio and leave photography, um, and, you know, retire as it were. Yeah. Um, my initial reaction was, no. Why would I want to do that? Yeah. There's still so much more that I want to do, but then, um, I thought about it and the more I thought about it, the more I was like, it's not gonna make me happy.
You know? Yeah. I mean, with the limited time I have, um, I've kind of gotten all the. Most [00:21:00] of the good experiences I could have gotten from that part of my life. And now it's time to, you know, step into a new chapter and that makes sense. You know, don't be afraid of the unknown. Yeah. And so, you know, that was, um, a pivotal moment.
It was like, okay, uh, let go of the fear and just mm-hmm. Life is short. Yeah. Hey everyone, Wade here. Before we get to the final question, if you like the show so far and wanna hear more, you can support the Bamboo Method on Patreon. There. You can listen to the full director's cut of this conversation and help make this show possible.
At the end of that shoot, we're shooting at a nightclub and it was like 2:00 AM or 3:00 AM and this very large, uh, homeless dude, wreaking of alcohol comes up and he wants to use the bathroom in this nightclub. And I said, ah, let him in. And so he, he's in there like 40 minutes. So I knock on the door and the guard like [00:22:00] walks out and I look in and there's this mound of stuff inside the toilet.
I mean, it's like peeking over. Oh, I, I can't imagine. It's like, how did that dude walk and. As everyone is celebrating oh, and you know, doing whatever outside. I'm on my knees inside this nightclub bathroom with, uh, a garbage bag trying to scoop all of this stuff. I up retching. Oh gosh, that taught me a lesson that, uh, what lesson is that?
Uh, common sense.
Well, that kind of transitions to the final question. Mm-hmm. Which is what are you nurturing, been investing in that you want to stop? And that might come back to that decision. Yeah, no, that's, that's such a good question because it, it kind of loops around to who you were as a kid and your self image as a kid, [00:23:00] right?
Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, you know, for me. I had a problematic experience with my father, who was extremely judgmental and, um, very overbearing. And so, um, uh, as a kid I wanted to be a writer. Mm. But lo and behold, my father wanted to be a writer as well, and he would push me into writing and, okay. My feelings towards him were so conflicted that it got confused and it got mixed in.
Yeah. And so for me, writing emotionally was kind of tied in Yeah. To my feelings about him. Yeah. And so I, I, you know, there was this long held emotional block. Right. I, I just refuse to think of myself admitting to myself that I want to be a writer. Hmm. Uh, and so you may have been right, I don't know, as a kid.
By kid meaning 18, 19, you know, the college writing experience, I would always [00:24:00] kind of feel bad 'cause I hadn't experienced enough to write about anything about. It's like, why would anything I've experienced be meaningful to someone else? Sure. And so now after having lived, you know, I worked as a TV news producer, um.
For 15 years in New York, I've just covered revolutions. I've covered kidnappings in Bogota, Columbia, just cra uh, the World Trade Center. So I've, you know, all of these crazy experiences in my head that I like to work out and make sense of, and, um. So that kind of loops around in a very non, non-ironic way.
Mm-hmm. To 13-year-old me not having anything to write about and now I do. Mm-hmm. And it's, my, my plan is kind of make sense, you know? 'cause we think we interact with this world in terms of story, a narrative that otherwise it's just too complex Yeah. To make sense of. Right. And so we have stories that make [00:25:00] us understand this world and or help us understand this world.
And so, you know, it's time for me to kind of make sense of my life that way. Yeah. In terms of a story. Yeah. And meaning. Um, so does that mean you're gonna start writing more? Yeah. Yeah. I see myself, um, uh, on a beach somewhere in Southeast Asia with my computer and writing. Uh, the reality's probably gonna be me.
Falling asleep, partially clothed on a beach drunk. Maybe the first day I'll be like, uh, yeah. Uh, but who knows? Uh, but that's the, that's the ideal. So let me see if I understood you right, what you want to get rid of this burden of what your dad, what he viewed you with the, he, he, ironically he passed. Okay.
Several years ago. Yeah. And, um, in addition to my sorrow, there was a sense of freedom. Okay. So you feel like some of [00:26:00] that's already been released? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but continue to release that to free you up to write, is that what I'm hearing? To free myself? Yeah. I mean, in a way it's a self-imposed prison.
Yeah. Right. So it's it's so in here, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, you know, you, you feel this freedom to be you more and more as you get older and don't give, you, don't care as much about how you're perceived or whatever. You're more free to be you. Yeah. And so there's a, a sense of individual Yeah. Um, existence there, which maybe not, may not have existed in that way when you're younger.
Mm-hmm. How do you go about attaining that freedom? I think it's something that you do. It's not something that you can attain otherwise. People, well, I guess people do try to go to yoga treats and all of that, but, you know, in, in the end the, the things which are driving me. Are, uh, oddly enough, you [00:27:00] know, just basic human core values, which is treat people the way you would like to be treated.
Mm-hmm. You know, be kind and be kind to yourself, forgive yourself and, um, give yourself time to become yourself. 'cause the more pressure you put on yourself to do and to become. It, it's, it can get counterproductive. Yeah. I like that. Well, I'm, I'm excited to. More about your writing and uh, hopefully some of that gets, uh, put out into the world for others to read.
Do you plan on, uh, having any sort of publication, whether it's a blog or, oh, no. No. I don't really care about it. Writing's for you? Yeah, I don't care about any. Yeah. Uh, but I will be starting a GoFundMe to get me out of prison. Okay. When and if that happens. Well, you know where to go for that. Thanks. Yeah, I appreciate that, Sam.
Um, I think to conclude mm-hmm. Um, you do have some plans. I'd love to just, can you paint a picture of what the next season of life looks like for [00:28:00] you? I'm sure a lot of people already know, but maybe give a little bit of what you'd like to share. Oh. What's, what's in the, well, what's in the cards for Ted coming up?
It's, it's interesting. Um, my, uh, my plan is to not have any plans. I'm going to be traveling. Um. Different places, Southeast Asia, Japan, uh, Portugal, Italy, uh, visiting friends and uh, you know, um, just seeing where, uh, life takes you and, you know, especially coming from a, a background worked for, uh, 15 years. I was a T International TV news producer where I was traveling half the month.
I was. Literally sleeping with uh, or going to work with a suitcase under my desk because I didn't know where I'd be sleeping that night. I was just constantly traveling. Yeah. So now I want to travel. [00:29:00] Just for the sake of traveling. Yeah. I, I had PTSD from airports. Sure. You would not imagine. So, uh, I, I just kind of wanna see the world without having a news crew in tow Yeah.
And having this pressure to meet deadlines. Yeah. And all of that. Um, you know, just explore the world. What most excites you about all that? Not having a schedule. Yeah. And, um, taking experiences day by day. Yeah. Yeah. And meeting people. The lack of mental load to just, you don't have to make a lot of decisions, you just, it's taken me like three months, four months to come to terms with the fact that there isn't a purpose to my actions.
Mm. Now that there's no, I don't need to have a plan. For a payoff or some sort of end game, right? Life is what it is. It's letting go of things. Yeah. And I think that of expectations, both your own expectations and your expectations of what others expect of you. Yeah. [00:30:00] It's a very freeing place to be. You know, again, maybe that goes back to my near fatal accident where I do feel like I'm in bogus time right now.
Yeah. You know, like every day is. A blessing. Yeah. So if that ends, it ends. I've just had the most amazing 10 or 11 years. That's the truth for everyone. Right? It's is every day is a gift. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that true? Yeah. And uh, what a good perspective to have to Yeah. Lower also some of the expectations that we put on ourselves.
I think that's just something we all do. Right? These expectations and Yeah. Pressure and granted the responsibilities, right, for some right. Are, are still there where you're entering a stage of life where there's a lot less to be responsible for, right. You're just responsible for yourself. Right. What I love about the season of life that you're heading into is there was a guy on, on another podcast that just said, what are you doing that you would do anyways if no one knew?
Like if you couldn't tell anyone about it, would you still do it? And you're kind of entering into that where it's like you're gonna do a bunch of stuff that no one, it's like, it's not about people seeing, we just live in the age where it's like social media, publicity. It's like you do things to [00:31:00] share.
And, um, and so that's kinda what I'm saying is like, maybe, I know that the purpose of doing those things isn't for other people, but maybe once it's done you might be like, oh, actually other people might enjoy that. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I think different people, everyone grows up with expectations. Yep. And those expectations are more often than not fictitious self.
There you can listen to the full director's cut of this conversation and help make this show possible. Thanks. It's a foundation of real creativity. Absolutely. Right. And so, you know, for a lot of very creative people. They, um, they're able to find their way at an early age Yeah. To get in touch with that.
Um, some of us, you know, it takes decades longer. Sure. So, yeah. Well, thanks for having me on, guys. All the best to you doing that. And, uh, this great. Thanks for your future, this being here. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks.
Thanks for listening to the Bamboo Method, investing in the unseen. [00:32:00] Remember, anything worth building usually takes time. And here's a sneak peek for the next episode. My parents really ingrained in us, not with words, but with how they treated us, like the responsibility they gave us, right? Like I was checking cows at like, I don't, I'm not even kidding you, like 5, 6, 7 on a little four wheeler.
I'm out like checking heifers in a p and my dad's like, don't go above gear three. I'll hear you. And it's a a five. I think of that now. I'm like, some people, they would never send their kid to do that. Right? But I just knew having that responsibility, I'm like, okay, I have to be safe. I can't be right like I was in, don't you?
You know? I'm sure there's judgment of like, why did he let his 5-year-old daughter do that? But you know, like there was a trust and a responsibility given, and I didn't take that lightly and at a really young age.