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A Marvel Rivals Podcast hosted by Coach Mills and CaptainCoach, two creator and educators for Marvel Rivals. We discuss all things Rivals including META, balance and the future of development. We will often debate controversial topics that surround the game and plan to bring on many exciting guests from pros to devs!!!
Coach Mills (00:01.149)
What's up guys and welcome to a brand new ClearCom's podcast. Today we're joined by returning guest team captain. Thank you man for coming back. Welcome back. back. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. And then new guest, caster, player, streamer. He does a little bit everything. iRUN SHIB. What's up man? Thank you so much for coming.
TeamCaptain (00:10.965)
It's good to be back, bro.
IRunShibb (00:21.314)
Dude, stoked to be here. Ready to get after it. It's good to see you guys finally get on, you know, to actually chat in person, man. I'm stoked.
Coach Mills (00:27.587)
Yeah, awesome, awesome.
Captain Coach (00:28.114)
We played against you the other day, right? In ranked a couple of times.
IRunShibb (00:31.106)
think so, yeah, a few times, dude. I see you guys all the time. I've never been on a team with you, Kevin Coach, but I've been with Mills a few times. We're always vibing. It's a good time.
Captain Coach (00:35.898)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (00:37.939)
I every time I play against you shit, I lose. I can't beat you, bro. I swear. I swear. I'm like, I'm like, I'll let group go. I'll let group go. And then you're just fucking you're playing that group or Emma just shutting down my dice. Yeah, I know. But but actually the before we talk about like anything else, because I didn't get y'all's takes individually. I want to get your takes about the CC change. I know we got the the the CC chain was a really big change going into this half season. The tenacity changes.
IRunShibb (00:40.27)
I
Captain Coach (00:41.938)
You
IRunShibb (00:46.69)
Bye bye.
IRunShibb (01:00.077)
Mmm.
Coach Mills (01:06.291)
With both of y'all being tank players, first I'll talk to you team captain, because you play tanks, you play Wolf, you play Angela, play like, CC is your thing, and you've even talked about it before, how you love crowd control. How do you feel about the tenacity changes? Is it overall good, bad? How do you feel?
IRunShibb (01:12.653)
Okay.
TeamCaptain (01:21.245)
I think it's a good idea that could be better implemented, like I like the idea of what they're going for but like the execution is not so good, like it's just usually in games it doesn't really happen that often right, like it's not nearly as annoying as I thought it would be but when it does happen it's worse than it is better.
IRunShibb (01:38.52)
Hmm
TeamCaptain (01:47.145)
because it usually just like ruins a play that someone was trying to make and just randomly interrupts what was going to happen like for example like a Wolverine alt could randomly just not grab someone or an Angela alt can just randomly not grab someone and so on like I feel like ultimates being affected by it is also a massive issue because like it takes so long to form your alt now because of the alt changes
and then you build up your alt and then boom, you just randomly just disconnect someone from whatever you're trying to do. So I think if they workshop it a bit more, it could be a good thing, but currently it's just kind of weird. I don't know. It's a bit odd.
Coach Mills (02:28.563)
And you think just specifically no like ultimate should be affected by it? I remember I was flying in as venom got hit by a couple CC then Groot tried to ult me and it just got I just I was like, nope. All right, I just fly. I'm just back. Yeah. And and like as I played some support as Luna and like sometimes you hit a freeze on someone and then it just gets canceled and you die. You're like, well, I hit my skill shot. Like, why am I dead? You know, like like I could definitely see why that's frustrating. What about you, Shiv? How do you feel from your perspective?
TeamCaptain (02:33.077)
Nah.
IRunShibb (02:37.77)
Eaten.
TeamCaptain (02:38.42)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (02:47.736)
Mmm.
TeamCaptain (02:51.221)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (02:51.537)
The
IRunShibb (02:55.158)
Yeah, yeah, so I did I honestly when I first saw it and I'm was curious when you guys take on this I thought it was kind of a nothing burger once I got in there like obviously content side when we saw that all of us were like, yo This is crazy. This is gonna change the game completely and I think everybody made videos on like worst-case scenarios But it like it doesn't happen that much. I'm with you team captain on it definitely shouldn't affect alts I think like the Emma, you know, they said like Emma's all doesn't count like it's cinematic right and Hulk tackle doesn't count I think there needs to be more of that in terms of examples of things that don't count towards the timer
But I feel like the biggest influence are exactly like things like venom who just has a million HP. So he's the most likely to see it. And then outside of that, it's like, you know, it occasionally happens thing. It's pretty bad again. We're like with thing kind of ruins him in my opinion. But I, know, I just haven't seen it be like insanely impactful. I'm looking forward to seeing what it looks like at the top level, pro scene team captain. I'm sure you have a lot of experience with that kind of stuff, but curious.
Coach Mills (03:46.619)
I think this kind of begs the question if it feels random in the way that it happens and there needs to be all these exceptions made for it to feel Reasonable, why does it exist in the first place? Right? I think as like like as a venom I play a lot of venom like I did not ask for a change like this It definitely benefits me. But like what's the point? I feel like there's just all these it adds RNG is what kind of what team captain is saying is it does have this random element that Might not happen all that often. But when it does like why why is it happening?
Captain Coach (04:09.371)
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (04:10.237)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (04:15.241)
I agree with everything you guys have said. think alt shouldn't be affected. It does feel random. It feels shitty. And I feel like too, a lot of characters that you thought were going to benefit from the CC changes, maybe characters you thought they may have been more intended for like big meaty tanks who absorb a lot of abilities. A lot of them don't even really benefit from this change, which is another.
that kind of bothers me about how it's designed is that characters with CC immunity, for instance, like Groot, I think is actually kind of almost like more negatively affected like thing too, because displacements, which like against maybe like a rogue or something where you just rack up a lot of free stacks, it's actually, you're in a situation where it's like less beneficial to you. So I think for this particular system, how I would fix it, yeah, like you guys said, don't make it work for alts. Those are.
abilities that you're working for. It's pretty much how the game is like win or lose is how well you use your alt. So that should still matter and then make the all the micro CCs, the smaller CCs either not count or count a lot less. So I'm thinking for like instead of counting either the amount of CCs, let's do maybe duration and then assign a time value to each of the displacements based on like how effective they are. And I think that's how I would go about
IRunShibb (05:16.002)
Hmm.
Captain Coach (05:39.452)
changing it. So for instance, like a rogue, you know, the rogue like dash, right? Like just boops you or like the blade make, make that count as like maybe like 0.2 seconds or 0.5 seconds towards the counter, right? And then add some kind of visual indicator in that way having, you know, so you only have one thing and that's what I would do. And I think, I think with that it's fixed. So like you take out the RNG and I kind of wanted to run that by you guys and see what you thought about that. And if that's like a good direction or bad direction, cause I feel like it solves most of the problems.
IRunShibb (05:44.77)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (06:10.675)
My belief is that this is kind of a band-aid fix when what you should really be doing is just balancing the CC abilities individually to not be as long. And I'm very curious what team captain and Shiv are going to say about this because I think the truly frustrating CCs in this game typically are stuff like Wolverine with a rocket jetpack, stuff like Emma cutscene for very long times. I mean, they made it better as far as, the cooldown's super long.
IRunShibb (06:18.19)
Mmm.
Captain Coach (06:18.639)
Hmm.
IRunShibb (06:29.998)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (06:38.749)
but we wouldn't need to make a cool down 20 seconds if we're not putting a cut scene, you know, for very long periods of time. And if you're gonna try to deal with the frustration that is being caused by CC, why not address the abilities themselves instead of just try to band-aid fix slap on this, this large thing. To me, I don't really understand that. It feels kind of like they're trying to circumvent balancing these individual abilities, but I'm curious, because both of y'all play these heroes a lot. So I'm curious what y'all have to say about it.
IRunShibb (07:04.046)
It's up to buddy if you want to go first. TKATS if you got something.
TeamCaptain (07:06.162)
Yeah I can go, I can go. I feel like, in my opinion, the really annoying CCs are the ones you mentioned like Wolverine grab, Emmer grab but the ones that weren't really addressed is like Invis pull, being pulled by an Invis is equally as annoying if not more annoying because she can do it across the fucking map. It's like an instacast cross map pull and you just get thrown all the way across towards her you know?
IRunShibb (07:21.39)
The worst.
Coach Mills (07:22.157)
Yeah, and there's no counterplay.
Captain Coach (07:22.915)
And it only counts as one. It only counts as one.
IRunShibb (07:27.458)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (07:31.813)
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (07:33.845)
I feel like those kind of CCs weren't really addressed. What I would have probably liked to see happen, which could have been more interesting, was just introducing like a tank passive to make it tanks are less affected by CCs because I feel like no one should really complain about CCs except tanks because tanks are the ones taking the brunt of it, as they should be you know because they're supposed to tank for their team, but like if a squishy gets CCed they're just gonna die.
IRunShibb (07:49.134)
Mm.
TeamCaptain (08:01.936)
after the CC goes off because they have low health but a tank, a tank can at least take one CC and live but multiple CCs obviously you can die from that so making it so that you're less punished by taking those CCs would be a pretty good change in my opinion. Especially boops, like getting booped on tank and you just get thrown off the map like sometimes you can't even do anything, it's just BS.
Captain Coach (08:19.952)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (08:21.065)
dude.
Coach Mills (08:21.925)
You
Captain Coach (08:23.505)
Well, that's.
Yeah, mean, at the risk of, sorry. Go ahead, Chip. At the risk of sounding biased in an all-tank podcast, I feel like supports actually benefit more from this change because they actually get the effect during their alts. And like I said, because tanks have a lot of built-in immunity, like even with preventative immunities like MagBubble and HulkBubble, I actually don't really
IRunShibb (08:28.614)
No, good, no, good buddy, no, jump in. Trust me, you're good.
IRunShibb (08:36.376)
Right?
Captain Coach (08:52.689)
Triggered effect that much. I see I I triggered on supports quite a bit. Sorry. What are we gonna say?
IRunShibb (08:58.574)
No, no, I agree with a lot of stuff you guys are saying. First thing to address is like, and I wrote this down because I'm super ADD, I was like, dude, I'm gonna forget this. Love the visual indicator idea, cabin coach. I think that's a good idea. I would love to see when it's getting close. I think, know, kind of like the scan would show me alt charge. Dude, I wouldn't mind if like I had a teeny little bar under their HP that was just like how close are they to being CC immune? So I know if I don't want to throw a strangling prison on Groot or some of this stuff that's just going to be useless when I had no idea. Also, you know, the quantity stuff like you guys are saying is weird. I don't love.
how like many little instances count as like the quantity towards CC like Rogue. I think that's weird. And like Invictus push and pull, like you're saying is dynamic. It's a huge problem. And that counting as one is like, it's like, dude, come on. Like, you know what I mean? That was the biggest problem. It's pulling me in. I'm out of position. I'm cooked. And yeah, just like also like the final thing is I agree with the fact that tanks also have a lot of the CC. So it's like, it kind of hurts us. This patches try to help us, think. And I think a lot of it hurts us because I'm seeing it happen to targets that I'm going after now.
Captain Coach (09:31.803)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (09:56.576)
Like, you know, for example, let's say Wolverine, I'm going after with MFCC, Atan, and next thing I know, he's totally fine and able to escape. I'm like, all right, that wouldn't have happened prior. At least I got a shot at it. You know, I, there's a lot of stuff that I'm kind of unsure about that I think they could definitely use some tweaking on.
Captain Coach (10:05.541)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (10:05.938)
Yep.
Captain Coach (10:11.823)
Yeah, it feels rushed for sure. It feels to me a little rushed and poorly thought out if you're looking at it from a competitive perspective. And it's a little odd to me too, because my biggest complaint by far about the CC changes, I'm kind of in the boat of team captain. I feel like it could be good. They got the right idea. yeah, like you mentioned Rogue, a lot of the core combos that some of these heroes have kind of aren't in the game anymore.
Not only does it feel more random, but the skill ceiling of a lot of really cool characters has been lowered. And now we're limited in the amount of plays we can make in some ways. And it does increase the skill ceiling, I think, adding a CC counter that you can't see, but it's in other unfun ways that I don't think are good for the game. Also, I can't imagine how much of a bitch it would be to cast just randomly seeing these people just go immune. like, that person's immune. guess they took, it must've, it doesn't seem like a good.
IRunShibb (10:52.269)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (11:00.79)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (11:02.958)
Coach Mills (11:05.841)
Yeah, we didn't really give you a chance to introduce yourself, Shib. As far as, so yeah, mean, you can enter Shib is, he's not only a high-rank player, but he also is a caster as well. So yeah, like how do you feel about when some of these changes come out? I'm very curious how you try to learn it in game and then apply it to your casting. How do you kind of try to connect the two?
Captain Coach (11:09.646)
yeah.
IRunShibb (11:30.808)
Sure. Well, the first thing is, dude, I'm just like, and this is not just over glazed, but I just play the game all the time, right? Like it's, you know what I mean? Like, you know, I, I not only do I want to just like understand a lot of the stuff, but I like going against the pros. I like getting whooped. I like trying to beat them. I think it's makes me better at the game. And also I think watching them all the time makes me better at the game, which has been helpful. But you know, it's going to be tricky on like the CC for me. haven't had experience with what that's going look like yet at the top level. They're going to learn around it. And you know,
Captain Coach (11:30.843)
Good question.
IRunShibb (11:58.21)
I thought it was gonna affect Rogue from all the content stuff that we saw and then know, you got Vess who's one of the best Rogues I think in the world saying, you know, it's not a big deal. But I think, so I think when they get hands on with it at the top level, they're understanding what the Kenning can't do. It's gonna change stuff, but it's gonna be funky with the casting. Similar to like the, you know, we were talking about quantities with Thing, you putting down a Yancy Street, you know, it lands six times. Everyone just stands in it. I would stand in it, you know what I mean? Get that immunity and then walk forward. I think that kind of stuff could be weird if that comes into play. So I'm not sure if that's gonna work.
Captain Coach (12:19.739)
Hmm
IRunShibb (12:25.998)
you know, moving forward or if they're going to change it. But yeah, man, you know, I just think it's, know, in terms of answering the question about like how this all works, you know, a bunch of time in the game, love watching the pros, thinks it makes me better. It all just kind of drives me to play more. And I'm not just doing that because I'm hired by them at this point. I'm just like hard addicted to this game, dude. Like I just want to be really, really good.
Captain Coach (12:42.097)
You
Coach Mills (12:42.695)
Yeah. I'm pretty sure at this point we're all kind of pretty addicted to this game considering we play it like all the time. It's all we do. It's literally all we do.
Captain Coach (12:44.816)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (12:47.918)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (12:48.433)
I, dude, I was pretty doom and gloom about this patch, but I'm actually enjoying it. It's not as bad as I thought. I do think they need to make some kind of change though, but you mentioned, oh yeah, go ahead. I was about to say you mentioned top rogue. That was team captain for a little bit.
IRunShibb (12:59.288)
Touche.
Coach Mills (13:00.325)
One of the... no, no, go on, go on. I'm about to transcend.
Yeah, it was. Yeah.
TeamCaptain (13:08.139)
I'll be, yeah. I'll be.
Captain Coach (13:09.539)
I kind of want to hear your thoughts on the rogue changes unless you wanted to go in a different direction, Mills.
Coach Mills (13:14.221)
I was just going to ask because I really wanted to hear their opinion about the old changes because we never asked them about the old changes either. You know, in 7.0, we got some pretty big old changes to reduce the amount of old in the game. Team Captain, I specifically want to ask you, do you feel like I mean, one, do think it's a good change to do? You think it's enough? Do you think it's too much if you were in charge? You know, would you make it more even more or like, how do you feel? How do you feel overall? I'm kind of curious.
IRunShibb (13:19.566)
Hmm.
TeamCaptain (13:42.205)
I mean I think it's the best patch that they've ever done with the game. Like it made the neutral feel way more important and the game became less like ult swap. Like before the major complaint was that so many supports for ults were going off like every minute. Now it feels like it goes off every two minutes which is a big change and it just honestly just feels better to play the game though I can't lie. Like they could not have done a better change than the ult change in my opinion. Very well done.
Captain Coach (14:10.833)
Do you think you would maybe turn it up to a 25 % nerf, 40 % nerf? We were talking about more. I was initially in the camp of I thought the alts needed to go up about 50%. And then once I experienced it and played it, I'm like, nah, it's pretty much the perfect amount. I feel like it's in the alt stuff is pretty much in the perfect spot for me.
TeamCaptain (14:29.158)
I'm just happy with how I think it's going. Yeah, it's good.
Coach Mills (14:31.365)
Right.
Captain Coach (14:33.275)
Do you think, I've been noticing a lot of critiques lately that the games feel more lopsided than ever. Do you agree with that? And do you think the alt changes are because of it or not?
TeamCaptain (14:43.412)
I mean I think it's a lot of players used to just rely on the fact that alts were the main thing that determined every fight but now the neutral actually matters so a lot of players are getting exposed, they're on fraud watch and they can't actually play the game for shit I think that's the main issue here like the people need to actually provide value when they're not in the alt fights and I think that applies I don't know like call them out too much but support players don't really use their utility very well
Captain Coach (14:51.995)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (14:56.869)
Hahaha
IRunShibb (14:57.41)
Ha ha ha ha
Coach Mills (15:10.525)
Call him out. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm I'm Four tank players calling out support players. What do you expect? You clicked on the podcast. yeah. Sorry.
Captain Coach (15:11.313)
here we go.
IRunShibb (15:11.8)
Yeah
TeamCaptain (15:14.12)
like average, okay, average support players are not very good at using their utility, not like using the extent of their kit to benefit them and their team. They just like to kind of heal and chill out, which is fine, but like if you want to win, then you're going to have to like contribute a lot more than that now because if the ult's been nerfed.
Captain Coach (15:35.77)
Yeah, no, I have noticed that yeah, like the gap between teams definitely seems a lot bigger because of yeah, the potential like the ceiling is kind of increased in some ways because it's there's more time during the game that isn't just everybody's immune to death. So it's been kind of crazy and I think games now, Shade, I'd be curious to hear your take. I feel like games now are decided even more by supports because the role is technically a little worse.
TeamCaptain (15:51.604)
100%.
IRunShibb (16:04.032)
Yeah, I think one of the funniest things that me and dog were talking about in the green room is like I think that if a lot of these Hardcore duelist pro players put us some serious time on strategists They could be picked up by some of the best teams in the world if they really dedicated to the role Yeah, yeah, he's one of my cocasters dog, man. Yep.
Coach Mills (16:17.139)
You're talking about Dogman, Dogman. Because I, for my, my recollection of Dogman back in Overwatch was way, way back when he actually was a DPS player. He played DPS a lot. Then he moved over. And I actually, think this was a conversation back in early Overwatch days where it's just like, you know, a lot of DPS players natural talent would be on support. They just don't play the role. They should play the role because it's a very mechanically demanding role. You need to make plays, mid-fight plays, you know, 100%.
Captain Coach (16:18.342)
Mmm.
IRunShibb (16:29.038)
Mm-hmm.
IRunShibb (16:41.624)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (16:46.382)
Yeah, that's why I'm with you. just think, I think there's like a weird stigma where people just don't want to do the, play the role, but there is so much, especially now with the more neutral changes. And first off on the neutral stuff, I'm with you guys. think it's the best patch they've done. I think it's smart. I would, I'd be cool with another 10 % personally. Like you're like you're saying I'm fine with a little more. I don't think they need to, but I wouldn't hate it. Yeah. And I think there's a, there's a, there's a weird cause like I'm trying to call us out because you know, I can just already hear the notifications ding and about people going after the team captain for the strat call, but it's he's right. I mean,
There's a lot of neutral play that needs to be provided and know, strat is difficult. It's a difficult role. And I think if you're really strong in that downtime without just pressing Q, you can win games and carry games. And we're seeing that from some of the top teams across Ignite right now. But also it's kind of on us and I'm willing to admit this, like for example, if I have a Mantis on my team, the reason Mantis is banned so much in pro is because she's disgusting. She can make people get alt faster. She enables one shot combinations, but in ladder she's buns. And that's partly on me and my team because
I don't feel comfortable pulling out like the cap or the, or the venom all the time that might pair better with the, with the Mantis. Instead, I just want to run traditional front to back because I like it more and it's on me. And if I did make that switch, it'd be easier for my team. I people immediately just blame the strap. And it's like, dude, if we shifted comp, we might run it with this comp and with Mantis, but it's just, you know, it's, it's, a little back and forth. So I got to give myself heat on that. I've been trying to own up to that a little more too. So, you know, I, but yes.
Coach Mills (18:06.173)
To be fair, it is hard to be infinitely flexible on tank. Tanks are very hard and very deep. I'm not saying supports aren't, because they are. I'm not going to expect my Luna Snow player to be able to play Jeff. But your group player is not going to always be able to play Venom either. That's hard. It's very difficult, I think, to give a little grace to yourself. It's not the easiest thing in the world.
IRunShibb (18:17.656)
Hmm.
IRunShibb (18:21.325)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (18:28.654)
No, but I'm just with you. just think that's something that like I think kind of gets tossed to the wayside is like a lot of these strategies that are very strong, which are very mechanically intensive get kind of crapped on and rank, right? I'm trying not to swear because we're on YouTube, but are we allowed to? All right, yeah. Well, still, I'll hold off till somebody breaks the barrier, I guess, but they didn't have the beer yet. I was thinking about getting a beer now. No.
Coach Mills (18:41.905)
No, you're good. You're a completely good. You're a guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're you're gonna do whatever you want. Yeah.
Captain Coach (18:42.054)
you
Captain Coach (18:48.113)
We just had a just had a drunk stream coach Mills and I are drinking stream only I was drunk
Coach Mills (18:51.291)
Yeah, you can. Let's go. Let's go.
Yeah, yeah, no, Captain, we did, we did, did, we did drunk duos or that's what we called it, drinking duos on stream. And it was, yeah, yeah, we did not, it not go up, but it was fun. It was very fun. It was very fun, but we tried our best.
IRunShibb (18:56.457)
Yeah
That's dope. I love it.
Captain Coach (19:01.553)
They went well, they went really well.
C1 to GM1 in one night. No, but you brought up a lot of interesting points. The one I want to touch on first, I played one ranked game today, and I went against Mantis, Ultron, Invis, and I wanted to throw my computer at the wall.
IRunShibb (19:21.25)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (19:24.179)
We're kind of jumping ahead on my my list on my little list right here But like I do want to address Ultron and Mantis because they buffed Ultron and I think Mantis has been this like this arbiter of triple support really is what she's been and I think that like overall I think the med is in a really good spot for a lot of it, but not Mantis Ultron triple support. I think that this is
IRunShibb (19:24.398)
Hahaha
Captain Coach (19:30.063)
Alright. I mean...
Coach Mills (19:50.703)
One of the most frustrating comps to play in ranked, I think it happens very often where if it's unbanned in like an eternity lobby right now, if they start losing, they're on it, like they're just swapping to it. And then you have to mirror it. How do you feel about these characters? Ultron, Mantis, do you think there's a design flaw here? Do you think that it's just part of the game? Do you think there should be reworks? What do you think? I'll start with you, Shib, and then we can move on to Team Captain.
Captain Coach (19:59.62)
It's so stupid. I hate it.
IRunShibb (20:16.75)
Alright, yeah. So for me, yeah, I don't obviously don't love the triple stuff. I think it's strong, really good in the dive, which I think is pretty good right now. Um, and that can be fun to watch, can be annoying to play against. So different conversations wherever I like that it has a pretty strong counter. But yeah, I think a lot of it's a little funky. I've got a lot of group and I think groups pretty good in that comp. So I don't hate it as much as probably you guys, uh, running that, uh, string of prisons, just massive in a man, anytime she alts, uh, you can try to find ultra vulnerable to, and you feed combo well and you run it like a very
Captain Coach (20:37.009)
Mmm.
IRunShibb (20:45.824)
You just have to run big alt comps. You have to run potentially the Magneto Meteor the, you know, the Namor, the Moon Knight, that kind of stuff. It's annoying, but I just land Strangling Prisons in profit every time I hear a straddle. That's what I try to do.
Captain Coach (20:52.721)
Yeah.
So what you're saying is I need to learn Groot. I need to get good.
Coach Mills (21:05.406)
Yeah, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey,
IRunShibb (21:06.21)
Hmm. You don't need to. Yeah.
Coach Mills (21:24.285)
characters like Groot and Emma, more front to back oriented, versus I prefer Jeff Rocket back lines. I'm a big fan of White Fox Jeff back lines. different strokes for different folks, guess. I guess that's valid.
IRunShibb (21:27.564)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (21:31.8)
Sure.
Captain Coach (21:36.123)
Wait, is it gonna be one of the heel-bot white foxes or one of the ones that actually played their character? Just making sure we got the right hero we're talking about.
Coach Mills (21:39.315)
No.
IRunShibb (21:39.992)
Commit. Yeah.
Coach Mills (21:44.775)
What about you, team captain? How do you feel about Mantis, Ultron, and the characters as a whole, as far as, you balance?
TeamCaptain (21:51.541)
So the thing about them is that they'll never be bad because what they provide is basically they provide a DPS character that can provide the utility of a support so you're basically not even losing out on any of the damage but you're getting all of the utility and it's just insanely overpowered like I think the only thing that can make it bad is if they just make the characters fundamentally bad but then they'll never be played because they can only be played in three support comps.
because they don't have enough healing to provide in a two support comp. So I just don't think that there's any other way to make them not strong other than reworking them completely because otherwise they just kill the characters and they won't be used. I don't know, they've got two options. They either keep it as three supports they're only viable in or they limit the roll to two.
and they rework all the triple support supports like Adam, Ultron, Mantis, Jeff. That's the only way they can do it.
Coach Mills (22:55.731)
I guess that's a good time to segue into, you know, Roloc. How do y'all feel about the idea of Roloc in this game? Because here's the thing, I'm very against Roloc, I still am pretty against Roloc. But I also think that one of the big reasons Roloc didn't work back in Overwatch was because there wasn't enough tanks, there wasn't enough fun tanks, and we severely had like these big queue time tank problems where like you were in, you know, Grandmaster and you would be waiting, you know, you would either get an Insta-Q,
Tank and you're in a lobby that's super unbalanced or you would be waiting like 19 minutes as a DPS or whatever There's just not enough But I don't really think we would have that those problems in rivals because that's all I see is tank players You know at every attorney lobby there's like four tank tank player flex player, but tank mains I don't think we would have those problems. I don't know. What do y'all think about?
Captain Coach (23:37.797)
NILS
knows.
Roloc is too finite, okay? How about something a little more like better vibes? Soft roll cue, that's what we need. Like you encourage the matchmaking maybe gives you a role, but like you pick a secondary, you'll never get your third.
Coach Mills (23:50.96)
Hahaha
IRunShibb (23:51.278)
Mmm
Coach Mills (23:57.29)
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. My teammates are encouraged to not throw games, not lock Spider-Man, not lock B.P. They're still gonna... Encouragement does nothing. What does that mean? What does that mean?
IRunShibb (24:02.52)
The League of Legends attempt.
Captain Coach (24:03.173)
Maybe it's like 60, yeah. Well, no, what I'm saying, I wanna hear their opinions, but I'm just saying, roll lock is very, what about a system where it's like, you get your main role 60 % of the time, right? But then the player base is, I don't know, for lack of a better word, like trained to accept, like, okay, I guarantee at least get two of the roles I want, so I'm gonna be okay with getting support 40 % of the time. Wouldn't that be like a good system, I feel like, but.
Okay, you pick. Me or Coach Mills' system, you gotta pick one. We need some... Yeah.
Coach Mills (24:32.358)
You're saying it's red? So it is 222.
IRunShibb (24:37.868)
Ha ha ha ha.
Coach Mills (24:38.599)
Wait, so what do you mean? Like, so it is 2-2-2, but you don't have to play 2-2-2 inside the game or you do?
Captain Coach (24:44.789)
I mean maybe like the system you can like hybrid could be like a fourth role that like sometimes will pop up and it's like it'll it'll just whatever every time more or less I don't know dude like I'm not a game designer but I'm just saying League of Legends did a system where that more or less worked and yeah like if you're a support main and that's obviously less common role if you put that as your secondary you're gonna get it way more than if you were like a mid main and put that as your secondary
Coach Mills (24:56.046)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (25:09.203)
you're saying you log, I see what you're saying, yeah. we had this conversation before how, you know, back in Overwatch, you had different ranks for different roles. Every single role gave you a different rank, and it was queued completely separately instead of queued collectively. But what you're saying is you say, I want to play as DPS or Tank, and then they're going to put you into a game as DPS or Tank. And they can speed up queues that way. But I also don't think that queue would be as big of a deal.
Captain Coach (25:12.325)
So, and people would, yeah.
Captain Coach (25:19.695)
It wouldn't do that.
IRunShibb (25:21.559)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (25:36.171)
It could end up being that, but I think there's a lot of fun tanks in this game. And they could make a lot more fun tanks. What do you think? Is there something to lose going Roloc? do you think? Team Captain? Yeah, we've thought about this quite a bit.
Captain Coach (25:41.945)
I'm curious to hear, yeah.
You can tell we've talked about this a lot already. Yeah, yeah.
IRunShibb (25:48.75)
I like it. I like the passion voice.
TeamCaptain (25:51.604)
So the problem with roll lock is queue times are really bad. There's also going to be multiple ranks for each of your rolls. So you'll have a rank per roll. So you're to have to manage three ranks instead of one. And then they'll also have to make a leaderboard for every roll as well, because the queues will be different for the rolls. So there's going to be instead of top 500, top 1500. So there's multiple factors to take into account here. But I think overall, I would say no to it.
Coach Mills (26:14.323)
Ha
TeamCaptain (26:21.234)
just because I think that with the game, like with the way the game is made, is more incentivized for casuals for one. And then that's going to push away casuals because people don't want to be waiting on these long ass queues to find games. And then on top of that, I feel like certain roles are going to be very, very long queues because it's less popular to play it. Like tank role will be the fastest queue without the, it's been proven in Overwatch.
DPS queue will be the longest and support second longest. Maybe even the longest depends.
IRunShibb (26:56.504)
Yeah, I mean, a lot of good points in terms of choosing one. I think I got to go with you, Kevin coach. You got to do soft block if you're going to end up doing something like that. I personally am with you team captain. I don't think we do it. I don't think it's, I personally don't love the idea. Also, you know, it just, allows for less like variability in heroes. I've been loving the heroes that they're dropping personally. I like, I like this crazy complex. I like these weird kids. I like when things get different and you change things up. think not locking roles enables you to make cooler heroes. I truly do believe that.
Coach Mills (27:19.175)
I agree.
IRunShibb (27:26.126)
that fit different team comps that aren't always going to be 2-2-2. And I think the issue with even the soft lock is like you're saying, but when you, how do you showcase you want to run that triple Vanguard, the triple strat and you know, and whether that's meta at the time or not, that's going to make it nearly impossible to develop. think it's, it's in, yeah, no keep going.
Captain Coach (27:42.31)
No, that's a really good point. That's a really good point. Yeah, you do kind of like, yeah, I mean, like, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but like, yeah, you kind of like gate what types of heroes get to exist. Like, yeah, I get what you're saying. I get, do you think like we would care less about it if there weren't characters like Ultron and Mantis just like making the game feel unfun? It's kind of like.
IRunShibb (28:03.33)
Yeah, I mean maybe right like the key that I want and I think they're starting to get better on but again I you know I think it's tricky now that I work for the team or like I'm on the casting side I don't for the record guys. I don't have like an inside track on anything people think I like have all this inside drag I just like cast for the game right like but so every time I give an opinion on some people think it's like scripted and written for me, but it sucks Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't know. It's just it and repeat where your question was coach. Sorry. I'm losing here ADD city, but
Coach Mills (28:22.149)
I can't believe you got Elsa nerfed, bro. What the heck, man? That is crazy.
Captain Coach (28:32.335)
Yeah, like, I really like what you said about having Roloc will limit the kind of, like, the types of heroes you can have. I kind of wanted to, pick your brain on that. So I'm saying, like, do you think maybe a lot of people feel this way about it is because it's so important to have, like, a comp and characters like Ultron and Mantis kind of challenge that equation that, and, like, I feel like they're not, they're either, like, really OP or, like, nobody plays them.
IRunShibb (28:42.703)
Hmm
IRunShibb (28:47.982)
Hmm.
IRunShibb (28:59.404)
Sure. Yeah. Okay.
Captain Coach (29:00.047)
So it's like those types of heroes, it seems like they have trouble balancing them. So it's like, I get what you're saying, I totally agree with you, but it's like, okay, now we have this situation where they over buffed Ultron because they want him viable in two healers for whatever reason, casuals or I don't know. He's almost, feels like he's balanced to be a double healer with how much, so it's just like, where...
IRunShibb (29:08.014)
Hmm.
IRunShibb (29:18.958)
Yeah. No, no. Yeah. And I get it now. I guess what I was what I was going to say is like, it's just like fatigue. I see what you're saying. So it's like, dude, I'm just tired of running into that comp. That's like a problem. You know what I mean? I think the key, which I was going to get out, which until I add it out, it's just like they they just need to keep it more consistent and frequent with changes. think if they just keep making more active, larger changes all the time, more frequently, then we'd get less fatigue on some of these comps. It's like, all right, Ultron's really good for this month or this few weeks. And
say they nerf it or they change it again. I think the more that they do that, although it can be annoying, make it very tricky for top level teams to constantly adapt, which I do think is a big part of the pro scene right now because of all the balances. I think it would make people less stressed out about some of these OP weird annoying comps.
Coach Mills (30:00.241)
I mean, I don't think I've played a single triple support comp that I've actually enjoyed playing against. I'm not going to lie all the way back from Rez comp to like, I don't think that there's a single one just because I, I mean, I'm to be biased here, but I don't really think sustain is that fun and interesting to play into giant, giant amounts of sustain. Like if you're going to, I like it when a back line like kills me. I don't like it when a back line just survives me forever. Right? Like, so I'm a big fan of characters like Jeff. I'm a, I'm a huge fan actually of, of medas that have Jeff in them.
Captain Coach (30:06.331)
Ha
IRunShibb (30:07.65)
Mmm.
IRunShibb (30:16.675)
Touche.
Coach Mills (30:30.289)
because I just like more proactive back lines. One thing, what if when you hovered someone's profile, you could see the top three heroes that they play or want to play or something like that. Some way to just create some transparency in comps. Know what people can play, know what people can fill to. I remember back in Overwatch, could quickly just look at someone's profile and just quickly know what are their top four most played characters and be like, okay, that guy plays that.
What can I play? I always thought it was a cool system, but.
IRunShibb (31:00.686)
Mmm.
Captain Coach (31:01.271)
That's a great idea. Anything that'll help improve the quality of the games, think, is an obvious win that they should put That's a great idea. Just be able to...
Coach Mills (31:09.747)
Well for a while there was no private profiles back in Overwatch. You could not private your profile at all. you know you Right. Yeah, and I liked it But I mean the reason that they added it is because people would just look at their profile and be like You're just a master shitter get off my DPS, you know, I'd say like something like I mean it was fun. But but that's why they got rid of it
TeamCaptain (31:15.535)
I missed that.
IRunShibb (31:17.55)
Thor bands?
TeamCaptain (31:25.946)
That's what I missed.
IRunShibb (31:33.784)
you
Coach Mills (31:34.035)
But it did help you build better team comps because you could see like, hey, this guy only plays Doomfist and he's probably the guy that we should play on tank, know, stuff like that. I also think I'm curious what your opinions are on rank resets every every two months. Do you all think that that is an acceptable pace? Is it the right amount? Is it too fast? Well, what do you all think? Shiv, what do you think about that pace? Because I know you're a busy guy. I'm sure it's
IRunShibb (31:41.614)
Mm.
Coach Mills (32:02.131)
Probably hard to constantly... Whoa, whoa.
Captain Coach (32:02.257)
Bro just said he does nothing but play this game.
IRunShibb (32:05.87)
Busy with the rivals. No, no, it's no, but yeah I mean that's actually something I haven't given as much thought when it comes to raincree said I like it for the stream side of things I'm sure you guys do too, right? Like it's it's fun because Yeah, yeah the streams. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah the stream side of things. I like it a lot You know, was an annoying because like I did the solo to like eternity last season just to try to see just no Q with anyone just to get it done and and I was like, all right, like I don't necessarily want to do that again. Yeah, you know what mean? Like
Coach Mills (32:16.871)
Yeah, mean, we're, yeah, we got no lives except for the game, right? Yeah.
Captain Coach (32:18.106)
Mm-hmm
IRunShibb (32:33.986)
So I, you know, I don't love the resets, but I'm fine with two months personally. I don't know. Maybe that's a hot take. I'm curious what you guys think.
TeamCaptain (32:41.619)
I mean I think that 2 months is fine also, like I think if you're going to change anything about ranked it's the system itself, I don't think that resets or replacements or anything needs fine tuning, it's just like the way that people get points and maybe the divisions could be changed a bit. Me personally I would like if there was 5 divisions per rank instead of 3 just to kind of spread people out a bit more.
IRunShibb (33:06.222)
Hmm.
TeamCaptain (33:09.427)
is I feel like a lot of people are a bit too clumped together that the skills and matches aren't quite there. Like you'll always have like one person that doesn't belong.
Coach Mills (33:10.022)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (33:15.65)
I love that.
Coach Mills (33:15.775)
C1 and C3 are like... I feel like C1 to C3 just is not even remotely close to one another. It just feels like that's a massive gap, like a huge gap.
TeamCaptain (33:22.739)
No, it is not, it is not. Yeah, I mean you could be eternity at Q &A really late night and then you get celestial 3 in your lobby and you really feel it, like you 100 % feel it.
Captain Coach (33:24.911)
I,
IRunShibb (33:34.499)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (33:34.991)
That's by design to have everybody like all the, I've thought about this a lot. Like they don't use a traditional ELO system in their game, which is I think the more balanced way to do it. I think they're more worried about engagement. Like they say they don't have engagement optimized match banking, they're in, no, no, but their entire rank system.
Coach Mills (33:50.693)
Not again. We're back on this every time. The Captain Coach propaganda is back in full force every pod.
IRunShibb (33:56.366)
You
Captain Coach (33:58.31)
Their entire rank system is balanced around basically like having everybody, like team captain said it, there needs to be more divisions to spread people out, but they want people close so that they can, you you could log on any time of the night and get some quick queues and it only says we're a division away when really.
IRunShibb (34:08.642)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (34:14.225)
Yeah, but they can have five and then they can have five and then y'all could say, it's for engagement because then you feel like you're making progress at a faster rate because there's five now, like no matter what they do, people could say the same thing. Like they could just make the argument for engagement or whatever.
Captain Coach (34:26.245)
Their... Their rank system feels like a toy when it needs to feel like a robust, like, legitimate competitive system. It feels like a toy. It doesn't- It feels like we're just like... Like even- the shiny borders and stuff and you- I feel like you climb super quick. Yeah, it's like-
Coach Mills (34:32.156)
Tuck.
Coach Mills (34:38.193)
i mean i think that for that i agree you actually
Ha!
IRunShibb (34:44.162)
Piece of candy? Yeah.
Coach Mills (34:45.907)
I mean that's it but that's like every rank system these days like I like even overwatch changed their rank system to turn into like what rivals is right now, but I Think the real problem I want to hear what you have to say about this ship is I think that performance should not really matter for Climbing anywhere near as much as it does right now if you can have a 45 % win rate and climb to celestial there's something fundamentally flawed there
Captain Coach (34:48.907)
I know. I'm old school, man.
IRunShibb (34:54.702)
Yeah, everybody wants something.
Captain Coach (35:03.205)
I agree.
IRunShibb (35:03.662)
Bro.
IRunShibb (35:10.606)
Yeah, I think all of us can preach there's kind of like a tank tax too. It's weird. It's weird. Like even when I'll get MVP with crazy finals on Emma, I've got 18 points. I'm like, what and what is going on? I'm like, how is that even possible? Where if I just, you know, or if I'm struggling, if I just switched to Moon Knight in the spawn door and just farm damage, would, I would get, you know what I mean? Less, less loss. I just think that that can't be, I don't love that at all. Team captain though, the idea of extra ranks personally love that. Cause I think even no matter where you are, the gap like
Coach Mills (35:15.03)
yeah, the tag tags is crazy.
Captain Coach (35:15.697)
100%.
Coach Mills (35:30.193)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (35:36.472)
Like you're saying C3, C1, even eternity, like the people that get into eternity to like eternity 200, it feels like a totally different game. Like I don't love when the game, like you're saying, the quality of matches feels crazy off because I do think like you're saying, there's just a wide range of like disparity of understanding of the game through every single rank right now.
TeamCaptain (35:55.124)
You know the biggest problems with the rank system that they could easily change is, so if you're on a team that has, let's say like your Celestial 1 right, that's the highest rank in your team and you have a team of Celestial 2's and Celestial 3's and then you're against an enemy team with 4 Celestial 1's and 2 Celestial 2's, you'll lose or gain the same amount as the enemy Celestial 1's despite the fact that you have less chance to win because you have lower ranks in your team because you're
Captain Coach (36:21.071)
Hmm.
IRunShibb (36:21.646)
Hmm.
TeamCaptain (36:25.241)
winning amount and you're losing amount is determined by the highest person in the lobby and the lowest person not based off your team's average skill rating and the enemy's team's average skill rating. That is one of the biggest problems with the ranked system and that's why you're losing 18 points or gaining 18 points when your performance is like you know fine. I think they need to change that.
IRunShibb (36:38.861)
Mmm.
IRunShibb (36:46.83)
Good to know.
Captain Coach (36:48.997)
Yeah, I've definitely noticed like the higher ranked people obviously get less, right?
Coach Mills (36:54.483)
It should just be mostly flat. Like once you get to a certain elo, if it's just plus or minus mostly flat, like imagine if it was just plus 20 or minus 20, but then they give you a little bit less or a little bit more for those differences, you know, just to turn them on the top.
TeamCaptain (36:54.759)
Yeah, you do.
Captain Coach (36:57.147)
But I-
Captain Coach (37:00.913)
So I.
Captain Coach (37:05.169)
So yeah, basically I think what you're saying is if their team's average elo is higher, you'll still get punished the same way for being like, it's not relative to like the difference in rank to the penalty that you receive. think, right. Yeah, that's how it works. That's like super F. Yeah, that's stupid then. That's so stupid. Yeah.
Coach Mills (37:21.619)
If you're the outlier, yeah.
TeamCaptain (37:26.461)
That is how it works. That is how it works, chef.
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (37:31.331)
Because what the system is trying to do is it's saying that you are the highest rank of the lobby, so you should always win, which is, of course, not reasonable. But that's what they're saying. Like, if you win this game, like you have to win this game or else you're going to lose a shit ton, even if the odds are stacked against you. It's like it's not really fair, but that's what the system is saying to you, basically.
Captain Coach (37:40.335)
Right.
IRunShibb (37:41.442)
or yeah.
TeamCaptain (37:52.02)
But it has two negative effects, it punishes the person at the highest rank and they get punished for it way more but then the person that could have been detrimental to the game gets punished way less and guess what they get to climb more and they go up further in the rank and then that means that they are going to skew the system to be even worse because there's going to be people who are of weird skill ratings that don't belong.
Coach Mills (38:18.733)
There should be a system in place where if you throw that game, if you're the worst player, the high rank player gets a steal rank from you. They get to yoink, they're like, you just lost an extra five, it's being given, compensary to your other player.
IRunShibb (38:18.766)
Mmm.
Captain Coach (38:27.953)
You
IRunShibb (38:31.64)
Ha ha.
Captain Coach (38:32.219)
but it's actually played out in the game. Like you see the characters going in and like taking his lunch money. I need that. Yeah.
IRunShibb (38:39.726)
Yoink!
Coach Mills (38:39.795)
Yeah, just wait into like 200 characters from now when there's like a fourth wall breaking character that can steal your elo. It's gonna happen, I'm just letting you know. You're gonna lose, it's gonna be a hero that you lose less. You lose less hero, it's like this hero loses less per game. Like you minus one. Instead of 16, you're losing 15. That would be insane, that's actually insane.
Captain Coach (38:51.409)
Domino. Domino gives you better
IRunShibb (38:53.058)
Hahaha
IRunShibb (38:58.761)
New main. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hard lock every game, you know? No, but building off what you're saying together, and like you guys are kind of piggybacking on it, like the system, because you're such a high rank comparatively, it expects you to SVP and MVP, but it doesn't account for the fact that that's not, the SVP and MVP system truthfully is just flawed. Like, you know, it really does benefit certain heroes. It doesn't necessarily benefit performance. And I think it also leads to some weird...
conversations in the lower side of ranks where things like Jeff and Ultron farm MVPs where there may be not always the correct choice for those in those ranks and then it gets them the wrong mentality of who's the best and how to play the best because they just deal damage and heal at the same time, right? And that it just, it just leads to a bunch of weird stuff. So think the system inherently needs to be figured out.
Coach Mills (39:44.427)
Yeah, it's like you said with tank tanks. I remember this one game. It was like, I think it was defense on, it was the Asgardian map, you know, with the payload. I, multiple times I was playing as Venom and multiple times my team was getting roles. I just stalled the cart. I did that three different times. We died. I ported back. We ended up holding them on first. And then I ended the game with like two kills, but like, because of what I did, like we, we first point held them and then I only gained like 15.
IRunShibb (40:04.942)
Mm.
Captain Coach (40:06.406)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (40:10.311)
Like, and what I did was undoubtedly the most impactful thing that anyone on the team did because they literally only got like one impactful fight and they never got to cap first point. But it's just completely, it's part of the performance problem with the tank tanks.
Captain Coach (40:12.186)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (40:21.166)
Hmm.
TeamCaptain (40:23.185)
Yeah you can't see Venom's value if you press tab, it's the same thing with Hulk and Captain America, like if you press tab you don't see what they really did. Like they could have cancelled ults, they could have stalled the car, they could have attention traded the back line so that they don't heal the front line. There's so many things that they could have done but you can't press tab and see it. Like people just think that stat patterns the whole game when in reality it's really not.
Captain Coach (40:24.593)
It's definitely a problem.
Captain Coach (40:47.749)
Well, it's sad though that again, I think that's another issue with the matchmaking is because performance points exist that people who are incorrectly or maybe not incorrectly playing but not playing in the way that's like most conducive to winning will still climb through like you said, negative win rates. And I think that's like what a lot of people have with performance points is that it encourages like Shib said, like bad, like with the Jeff and Ultron like bad habits too, like really bad habits.
Coach Mills (41:13.351)
Yeah. Like any system that has players giving up on the game, swapping Moon Knight just to like farm damage, just so that they lose less. Like they're rewarded for giving up on a game that was actually winnable. Cause you can always win a game and they just give up. And it's insane. That's just insane.
Captain Coach (41:19.822)
Yeah. Yeah.
IRunShibb (41:24.628)
Agree dude.
Captain Coach (41:26.991)
yeah that's why I'm saying, like, if you're throwing on widow you're trolling, like throw- I guess technically your stats would be better on widow because everybody throws on her like relative to the other widows throwing but I'm saying like why leave it up to chance, just play something like moon knight or thing and just farm their tanks or something, you know?
IRunShibb (41:31.981)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (41:35.219)
Right, right.
IRunShibb (41:43.907)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (41:44.451)
So what I wanted to do is I wanted to go through each of the roles and just hear y'all's opinion on the balance of the roles. Let's start off with the role that we all know best, Tank. How do you feel about the balance of the Tank role as a whole? know, compared to each other and you know, just in the game. How do you feel, team captain? How do you feel the Tank role has been balanced right now?
TeamCaptain (42:03.227)
I think the tank role is in probably one of the best states it's been in so far. Like I feel like me personally, I can play like any tank I want. It really just depends on what my team wants to play, what the bands are and what the map is. And it can really change a lot what I'll play. Like I've been playing Captain America a lot because I want to play in dive comp. Or I'll go Venom because we have a Jeff and I want Jeff team up. Or maybe I'll go Tank Pool because you know, I want to play
IRunShibb (42:24.109)
Hmm.
TeamCaptain (42:32.093)
like a frontline tank but I don't want to play too frontline I want to kind of go around the map a bit. Or I can go Doctor Strange because I have an Invis Rogue because I have a Gambit and that goes on apart from Penny. I think Penny is literally the only outlier that that doesn't apply to. Where she has zero value, zero anything, she's just there. She's just there. They did buff her webs, yeah that's true. You can make a
IRunShibb (42:41.646)
Mm.
Coach Mills (42:44.595)
Hehehehehe
Coach Mills (42:52.198)
You
Captain Coach (42:54.021)
they buffed her webs. She's got an extra one though. That's a little bit more on the map that
Coach Mills (42:56.595)
What are you talking about team captain in in Plat she has a 66 % win rate bro, what are you talking about?
IRunShibb (43:02.326)
TeamCaptain (43:04.203)
The best thing that they did to Penny was make it so she has four webs so you can draw a penis on the ground. That is the best thing that Penny has. That is it.
Coach Mills (43:09.796)
my god.
IRunShibb (43:10.062)
True.
That's it, dude. You gotta add the apostrophe whenever you're saying pennies. I'll tell you that.
Captain Coach (43:19.498)
Haha, getting the experts on.
IRunShibb (43:22.766)
I love it.
Coach Mills (43:23.763)
What do you think, Shiv? How do you feel about the balance of the tank role as a whole?
Captain Coach (43:23.857)
Getting the experts on guys.
IRunShibb (43:28.91)
Yeah, mean balance of take role personally right now. This season, the last I thought it's been perfect. I think they're all viable. You know, I like to crap on Penny too. You know, for this, there's going to be comments about Penny from both of us, buddy. We both don't think Penny's in a good spot, but everybody in the lower levels think she's a raid boss. But, uh, really? Okay. All right. Respect. There's certain maps.
Captain Coach (43:41.253)
Hey, you guys are making me feel dumb I've been that here That's my number one band right now, and I'm proud of it
Coach Mills (43:48.391)
Yeah
That's what I've been telling I've been telling couch and coach needs to pick up like moon night or something cuz he hates fanny so much. I like that kid
Captain Coach (43:57.714)
I've been out here. Hey, I got my eternity, bro. Whatever works, whatever works.
IRunShibb (44:02.976)
Yeah But yeah, think it's been cool to see like I kind of slept on rogue until I watch a lot of the pro scene stuff and then when Gambit gets through like team captain saying it's just she is Obscene to the point where she's banned all the time now I've been picking her up and playing her whatever gambits in the game and games feel a lot easier because she just essentially has her own gambit all every 30 seconds and You know that kind of stuff. I just think even heroes that were sleeping on now I'm noticing in the right circumstances are disgusting. So yeah vanguards side. I think we're in a good spot
Captain Coach (44:23.856)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (44:31.783)
What about you Captain Coach? How do feel?
Captain Coach (44:33.091)
no, I totally agree. Tank is, I think, the best it's ever been. And yeah, I still think there's places to pick Penny, but maybe I just don't know enough, I don't play enough counters to her. Some maps she's really, really oppressive on, like the Dracula map and the Klyntar, but no, I totally agree. I feel like when you have a team who knows how to shut her down, she's kinda, probably the weakest tank, yeah. No, yeah, I feel like all the tanks are B tier or higher. And even the bad tanks are...
Coach Mills (44:57.875)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (45:01.137)
still there's still like, like Thing is probably one of the weaker tanks. I still think Thing is like super OP. Like Thing is really strong. I mean, he got kind of fucked over by the ult change, like probably more than just about anyone, which since we're talking on tanks, I did want to circle back to the Rogue, because Rogue is a character I really like. And I figured,
Coach Mills (45:06.867)
He's still good.
IRunShibb (45:10.702)
Mmm.
Coach Mills (45:13.043)
Still good against deeps, which is nice, you know, all the DPS.
Captain Coach (45:24.993)
She's probably one of the most affected by the changes. kind of I knew pretty early on Rogue Gambit was OP, but now it's like everybody Okay, you pick Rogue with Gambit for the team up because I spammed her but I wanted to get mainly your take team captainship Do you play Rogue at all?
IRunShibb (45:39.662)
I started two cents on watching the pros, if I'm being honest. But yeah, no, I want to hear a team cat. He's played a ton of the hero. I'm curious on his take too.
Captain Coach (45:45.362)
Her win rates actually gone up since the CC changes, I mean, maybe that's just like a little like bias, cause now maybe more people are playing or something. But like, was curious to hear your take, like kind of where she's at right now. Cause I think on your tier list, you put her A, no? You put her kind of where I did.
TeamCaptain (46:03.897)
I put her best in slot if she has the team up and in A if she's no team up. That's it.
IRunShibb (46:08.536)
same.
Captain Coach (46:11.907)
Okay, so do you think she's worth picking on her own? And then like, just wanted to hear your general thoughts on like how she's affected by the CC changes, like the interactions.
TeamCaptain (46:21.053)
So she's worth picking without the gambit? I think if you have the skill set to make it work she can be worth picking. I would say you'd play her in place of Hulk for example, like instead of playing a Hulk you'd play a Rogue because I think they have the same kind of value to a team where they take brawls and they like taking prolonged fights where everyone has to fight close to each other but I think if you're gonna play Rogue without Gambit, yes.
Captain Coach (46:41.638)
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (46:50.149)
she's still good and I don't think the CC changes are that big a deal like if you're good enough on this character like you can easily do a lot more than hit these TikTok combos like let's be real most of the time when you're hitting a rogue combo on someone they're probably not gonna die because they're gonna get healed you're not one shot on anyone with a combo rogue's value is not really from that and it's from like her utility with her grabs and displacement I would say
Captain Coach (47:19.779)
Yeah, I feel like brawling, like you just want to brawl on her a lot too. And I actually have had tenacity triggered on me as Rogue, whereas like Hulk pretty much never, I get it. Like Thing, pretty much never get. On Rogue, I actually get it sometimes. And it's like she, because she doesn't have like a built-in immunity. I thought that was, yeah, I feel like she like that and people kind of realizing, yeah, her and Gambit, you just do that. I think she's in a pretty good spot. Like I think Rogue is, yeah, what's up?
Coach Mills (47:46.931)
Are we all... Did I miss the memo? Are we letting Game and get through the band phase? Like, I don't know, like, why is... Yeah, I just don't think that that character should ever be through the band phase. Still, by the way. I know we're gonna talk, we're gonna probably talk about supports in a little bit, but...
IRunShibb (47:51.534)
Rarely.
Captain Coach (48:00.249)
I feel like you'd do it if you have someone who hovers Gambit, because it's just a numbers game at that point. Hope the enemy team messes up. I don't know.
IRunShibb (48:03.32)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (48:03.763)
Yeah, fuck them. We're still banning it. I was kidding. I'm kidding. Yeah. Okay. I wanted to talk about... Wait, real quick. Buff Thor, buff Venom, buff Tankpool. All right. Now, moving on to the DPS. Nah, I'm just kidding. What about the state of DPS? How do you all feel about the state of DPS? Because I think this is the complete opposite of tanks as far as the difference between the worst and the best.
IRunShibb (48:07.896)
Friendly fire, yeah.
IRunShibb (48:17.036)
Not Team Captain's Thorn,
Captain Coach (48:18.405)
Ha ha ha.
Coach Mills (48:31.223)
What do you think, do you team captain, about the state of DPS right now?
TeamCaptain (48:35.027)
Yeah, I think it's like the complete opposite of tanks where it's just like you got like five to seven DPS that you really swap between and then everyone else is useless and it's not like those DPS are ever gonna get banned and ignite because you want to ban out supports instead because they're more powerful and I don't know like the only good DPS in my opinion is like Star-Lord, Psylocke, Daredevil, Black Cat, Phoenix
Coach Mills (48:55.482)
is
TeamCaptain (49:04.303)
Elsa no more does it. I think those are the good DPS and then like Spider-Man if you're like insanely talented but you have to be talented.
Coach Mills (49:12.167)
Yeah, right. well, like maybe maybe wolf you think wolf in there or no not wolf
IRunShibb (49:13.631)
Hmm
Captain Coach (49:14.267)
Can you re-
TeamCaptain (49:17.913)
Yeah, Wolverine, yeah, he's got use cases. He's definitely got use cases, but everyone else... No.
IRunShibb (49:20.632)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (49:20.689)
Real quick, you tell... Yeah, every... No, no, no, no, gotta ask him about Moon Knight, because the comments are gonna go crazy, because he gets banned in lower ranks apparently, I found this out. So I just wanted to hear your take on that.
Coach Mills (49:24.179)
What about, what about Black Cat? Sorry. yeah, you.
TeamCaptain (49:27.335)
She's broken.
Coach Mills (49:32.421)
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (49:33.777)
Okay Moon Knight's only use case is breaking a spawn hold on payload maps, that's it. It's the only time you should ever use them realistically. Yeah Storm as well, exactly.
IRunShibb (49:39.341)
Mm-hmm.
Same with Storm. Just for that.
Captain Coach (49:43.131)
same with Thor.
Okay.
IRunShibb (49:45.966)
Yeah, you use her to damage boost the Moon Knight, and then you just have him farm the Triple Vanguard frontline. Which is now turned into a Triple Vanguard, one duelist for a while, it was Elsa obviously in Pro scene, now it's gonna be maybe different, and then two backline, it might go back to Triple Triple, now that Elsa's kinda...
Coach Mills (49:46.675)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (49:57.907)
Do you think?
Captain Coach (49:58.404)
Shiv, could like a normal player do this? it-
IRunShibb (50:01.134)
Dude, I try to do that in ranked. I think that's the fun part, is I tell people, like, let's do this. You know what I mean? Sometimes it actually works. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (50:05.499)
It worked, worked. Deciding to play it is half the battle, I think. Because I mean, what are you doing? Just output, you're just outputting damage. Like that's all you're doing. It's just like, will people actually swap to that? Most likely not. Do you, okay, Team Captor, do you think that the problems of the DPS role or the, or the rather the fact that maybe only eight of them are viable or nine of them are viable, is that a result of the role not being balanced like it could be? Like the tank role is? Or is it a result of there's weight, there's just a lot.
Captain Coach (50:05.808)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (50:10.146)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (50:10.725)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (50:12.813)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (50:16.323)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (50:34.481)
Like there's a lot of DPS. Like will that eventually happen to the other roles once they're double in size? Or are there actual things that they could do to make it so other characters are viable in the DPS role? Or is it only nine, like the limit?
TeamCaptain (50:46.067)
To me it's that there's too many niche DPS that are just weird like Squirrel Girl and Squirrel Witch for example and Black Panther and then there's some DPS that play very similar to other DPS that are just better objectively so you'll never play them in a lot of that DPS like Helluva for Phoenix. I just feel like there could be a bit more diversity in different DPS play styles as well.
And then there's like so many power creeps that are happening because obviously the DPS role is the most like, I think we had the most characters for the DPS role throughout the last year. So there's so many different characters that they added and most of them have just been straight up upgrades of what we have, you know.
Coach Mills (51:33.939)
Yeah. guess then I'll pivot to Shib. We asked Bogor the same thing. He calls certain characters like training wheel characters or like noob characters, characters like Scarlet Witch and Squirrel Girl. But we understand that those type of characters in their current state will never make an impact on like the high rank meta and the pro meta. So do you think that these characters should exist and just be in this like state where they're not really good, but they can be noob characters? Or would you like to see them go in?
IRunShibb (51:45.944)
Sure.
Coach Mills (52:01.787)
and actually change these characters, increase their skill cap, add more utility, do whatever, and then those characters are actually viable in high level. And maybe one of the nine, we get to actually play them.
IRunShibb (52:13.102)
That's a tough question to answer. What I'll say is I don't mind like the training, the learning, like finding a way to find a solution to those heroes that maybe aren't the best in higher ranks. I think teaches you how to play the game a little better and why they're not so good. I think that's kind of something you need to learn if you're climbing. I do think I'm with you on whoever said a lot of these characters have been upgrades, right? So the reason that these nine or whatever the list may be are pretty much all you'll see in the pro scene is because they're essentially filling a specific niche better than everyone else, whether it's Vanguard busting, being a hitscan.
You know, reason Moon Knight's not as good is because he's a big frame. And so hitscan like Elsa or, you know, Phoenix can just destroy him at range because they're hitscan and they see a big body far away and they can just never miss. so like, yeah, I think that I don't necessarily mind that they're better in the lower side and they struggle above because I think that changes the meta for as you climb, it makes more heroes have impact. I don't think every hero needs to be meta, but they could. the only thing that would really be able to introduce that, I think, which I think is the best part of Rivals,
is the team ups, but they've got to get a little more aggro with how crazy the team ups can be. Again, like they used to be.
Captain Coach (53:13.284)
Mmm.
Coach Mills (53:15.379)
Agreed, agreed. What was your favorite team up? What's your favorite team up, Shep? I'm curious, real quick. Yeah, I know there's a lot to think about. Anyone can throw in whatever their favorite team up was.
Captain Coach (53:16.049)
Wait,
IRunShibb (53:20.302)
Of all time? Oh, uh, of all time. Uh, well, I just think it's something crazy ones. I think about the member of limited ammo, how insane that was.
Coach Mills (53:30.643)
It's disgusting. I honestly think that that unlimited ammo forever warps people's perspective of Bucky. Like in a really negative way where they just like... I mean Bucky's just building ultimates in the first 25 seconds. It's just not supposed to happen. I just remember that being super broken. I like the Magneto one. They brought it back kind of but... yeah.
Captain Coach (53:32.977)
That was my least, I hated that one.
IRunShibb (53:34.497)
I mean, yeah.
IRunShibb (53:41.484)
Hmm.
IRunShibb (53:51.714)
It's crazy.
IRunShibb (53:56.949)
Sword? Fur sword.
Captain Coach (53:57.702)
that one was hard to aim. I didn't like that one.
IRunShibb (54:00.674)
First word was crazy, first word was crazy.
Coach Mills (54:00.817)
Captain Coach (54:03.663)
I like the new sword that's easier to aim. But guess that's kind of like the point of good team ups is to make it feel different than you normally, like what you're normally doing, I guess. I like fastball. Fastballs, that's, mean, that's, I know I'm biased, but.
IRunShibb (54:10.03)
Mm.
Coach Mills (54:16.019)
I think the best team up that they've ever made at least in my opinion. I really like the magic strange team up I'm a very big fan of a skill shot team up that has playmaking I'm a huge fan of that and I wish they would add more of those type of skill shot, you know types team up team ups It's really cool. I don't really play magic all that much so I don't get to utilize it as much but I do love I love that conceptually I like that concept
IRunShibb (54:16.077)
Really good.
IRunShibb (54:29.752)
To share.
IRunShibb (54:38.53)
Gamma Strange was good, Gamma as a whole was good back then. Think of my favorite, I was a big Strange guy, Season 1 only. So I loved Gamma Strange. the problem is if you had these team ups from Season 1 now, once people figured out the game, it would just be too much, too strong.
Coach Mills (54:40.6)
yeah, it was strong, yeah.
Captain Coach (54:42.085)
Game over was cool.
Coach Mills (54:56.315)
Yeah, I think there's a fine line between like strong and almost necessity for the character to function like a lot of Namor's team ups like where he's finally in a state where he doesn't need it in order to be good. But for a long time, he was he was like a squid bot felt like.
Captain Coach (54:56.528)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (55:03.746)
Mm.
Captain Coach (55:08.357)
What
TeamCaptain (55:10.652)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (55:11.471)
Yeah, what kind of team ups would Wanda need for instance, Shib, to get picked in? Actually, what is the weirdest comp you've casted or seen in like a serious?
IRunShibb (55:22.466)
Well, depends because sometimes it's a team that's like, you know, because there's a lot of teams that are at the very top level have been running a lot of meta stuff, right? Like, and not really getting crazy. I mean, I think the team that's running the weirdest stuff in the North American region right now is, is yeah, we lost. running a lot of the just snowball comps where it's just like, yeah, a lot of the brawl send it together. We'll run the Spider-Man, the Vant or the, the dual pool and, just kind of walk at them with everything we got. And that's different than a lot of the teams are running right now. So definitely unique.
Coach Mills (55:38.343)
Joward.
IRunShibb (55:51.16)
But even then, dude, like, you're not gonna see Wanda or Widow unless they're just trolling, you know what I mean? But it did have, like, yeah, it did have, like, Hulk, Thor on the table, like, like I said, like, Duelpool. That kind of stuff's definitely different.
Captain Coach (55:54.948)
Yeah. Right. Unless it's Assum's tournament.
Coach Mills (56:00.947)
you
Captain Coach (56:01.841)
Ha!
Coach Mills (56:06.065)
I mean, they could they could definitely add team ups that would guarantee a hero gets played if it it I mean, you would have to just like like, for instance, like res comp, like right. Like if you gave Wanda a triple team up with Mantis Adam and it's res comp, but you need her to be played in the comp, she's she's in pro play. She doesn't belong.
Captain Coach (56:10.906)
Yeah, like what?
Captain Coach (56:18.545)
You
IRunShibb (56:20.204)
Hehehe
Captain Coach (56:22.129)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (56:24.578)
Yeah. Yeah.
Coach Mills (56:25.511)
But she's there, right? Because you want to be able to rez your Adam and your Mantis for free, like 100%. They should do stuff like that. Imagine Squirrel Girl in like, like just current Squirrel Girl, but with a broken team up that helps two other characters. So she's just randomly in there in pro play. I think that would be hilarious watching team captain play Squirrel Girl in pro meta. Like, cause that, like I just think it'd be really fun. But you make the team up so strong with other heroes. Like, right? Like that team up is so good.
IRunShibb (56:50.424)
Thor rides.
Coach Mills (56:53.427)
Because you can definitely make him like some insane stuff.
Captain Coach (56:54.715)
Thoughts, team captain? Thoughts on that? Making a team ups to make someone OP or picked or?
TeamCaptain (57:00.659)
I mean it's already a thing so obviously I'm fine with it. Like look at Mantis, she provides one of the strongest team ups in the game. I mean go for it. I think team ups are very fun, I love team ups. They actually keep the game super fresh. Like I swear one of the reasons why Overwatch was so ecstatic in Metas was because some characters were just in numbers worse than others and this game basically makes it so a lot of these characters can shine where they normally wouldn't.
IRunShibb (57:13.603)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (57:32.534)
Agreed. What's your favorite team object, Captain?
Coach Mills (57:34.215)
Yeah, I guess.
TeamCaptain (57:36.605)
Favourite team up of all time I would say, Fastball Special. I love team ups where both the players have to do something and it's like they're actually working together to do something. It's like a full ability on its own that both the players have to interact with. I think that's so cool and I want them to do that more.
IRunShibb (57:39.34)
Yeah, it was tough to answer. I'm curious if you got one.
okay.
Captain Coach (57:53.841)
It's like a mini game almost, it's cool.
IRunShibb (57:53.966)
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (58:05.395)
I dunno like Iron Man and Captain America, like Iron Man has the beam on his shield and he can deflect it and it does twice the damage. Something like that. Like I like the more interactive ones, I think they're the best.
IRunShibb (58:08.805)
Mmm, that'd be sick.
Coach Mills (58:09.733)
ooooh, okay. That would be sick. That would be dope.
IRunShibb (58:12.291)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (58:12.569)
Mmm. Yeah.
IRunShibb (58:17.646)
I like that too.
Captain Coach (58:17.999)
Very cinematic.
Coach Mills (58:19.461)
Alright, well, I guess the last of the three we have to talk about is the status supports. We'll start off with you, Captain Coach. How do you feel about the status supports?
Captain Coach (58:27.889)
Nerf support! Please God! It's gone on too long! Invisible Woman has a 53 % win rate with almost 60 % pick rate! What are we doing?
IRunShibb (58:29.321)
Hahaha
IRunShibb (58:37.698)
That's crazy.
Captain Coach (58:41.137)
Uh, nerf, okay, nerf Invis, nerf Mantis, nerf Ultron, nerf Gambit, um... Rocket is finally kind of balanced because every other- Oh, sorry. Oh, yeah, sorry. I think, uh... Good meta pick, it's Ultron... Dude, I don't know, man, like, what are you- So, okay, like, obviously there's a couple supports that are way too good. Invis is just like God against Dive, she's like-
Coach Mills (58:43.923)
No, no, no, no, no.
IRunShibb (58:48.727)
Luna damage.
Coach Mills (58:49.413)
Okay, the supports compared to each other. the supports compared to each do you feel internally and within the roles?
Captain Coach (59:10.053)
very hard to kill. Gambit's ult is, like, you have to play, or it's like, you build a comp around him, and if you do, you win, if you don't, you lose. That's a problem, right? That's a problem with the game. And it's like, we've made the game more skillful. Let's keep going, right? So like, let's nerf some of these support ults, bring them in line. Now Ultron's ult support ult's like, kind of good now, and it's just like, man, we were on the right track for so long. And I feel like they're, yeah, they're
Coach Mills (59:38.001)
For one season. For one month.
Captain Coach (59:40.05)
Like Luna's got buffed to her damage. She's basically like hella with with heals like like what are we doing? Like we were doing so good. The cloak nerf was great. I think she's actually probably one of the more balanced characters in the game really like cloaks and even she's kind of OP like with her like shroud and stuff. So like I don't know. I think they still need to look at the role either lower the damage of the healers to the point that like makes it appropriate that they have that much healing or lower like nerf the ults like we got to do something.
I think support still has way too much impact. That's how I feel.
Coach Mills (01:00:15.315)
What do think, Shib? Why, do you agree, disagree?
IRunShibb (01:00:17.774)
Yeah, mean, it's balance-wise similar to Vanguard's. think they're all in a really good spot comparatively to each other and not to say they're not strong, right? Like I think they're super strong. You know, some obviously fit better into certain comps than others. I think it's tricky, right? Because it's a delicate balance with this game as a whole where, you know, if you heavily impact the balance on a strategist line, you're going to see less strategists in game. And that's not necessarily just because of the strikes or whatever, you know, people like to talk about on social media. It's just like, I don't want to play the role from getting walked, especially in a dive meta. It's like, dude,
I want to be able, if I don't play a lot of Shred, I want to be able to hold my own against them. And you know, I'm just traditional. I like running Luna, right? Because I just like hitscan. like, yeah, you know. So I like being able to fry things, but I'm with you. It's, they're very strong. The fact that Luna does more damage than Hela is pretty insane right now. Cause it's just like, why would I run Hela when I could just play Luna in two tap heads and free somebody first and make sure it's a guaranteed KO. That's, that's, that's a little crazy.
Coach Mills (01:00:53.828)
I did too, yeah I did too, yeah I'm right with it,
IRunShibb (01:01:12.11)
But yeah, as a whole, I'm with you. and dude, one thing I wanted to mention about win rates, dude, and this is a hot take, win rates to me mean nothing, dude. To me, yeah. Well, that one, no, no, no, with the pick rate, that's different. That's different. But what I always tell people is like, sometimes some of the best heroes have bad win rates because they get flamed so much by their team to switch to the hero. They end up switching to the hero with no experience or understanding of the hero because it's just meta and they just sell win rates. just tanks numbers. Don't love it.
Coach Mills (01:01:18.387)
I agree, I agree! No, no, no, no.
Captain Coach (01:01:18.961)
60 % pick rate, though?
Captain Coach (01:01:33.424)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:01:36.339)
If we went purely by win rate, the best hero in the game for DPS for the entire life cycle was Magic, because she's always had like a 56 plus win rate. And the worst DPS in the game since the beginning of the game would be Bucky, because he's always sat around like a 47, 48 percent. And we both know that those things are not true. Like Magic has never been, you know. Yeah, yeah, think in fact it was both. I'm pretty sure, yeah.
IRunShibb (01:01:54.509)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:01:55.665)
Does it factor console it?
Captain Coach (01:02:00.625)
Well that's why, Magic's OP on console. Oh you guys didn't know? Nah, I'm just kidding. No, she's like super busted, I feel like. So I mean, think that does come into play a bit. Like, Phoenix.
Coach Mills (01:02:05.043)
I she is super strong. But the thing is, what you're talking about though is nuance. And that's the thing that people don't see when they pick rates and win rates. They don't see nuance. just look at it and they're like, no.
Captain Coach (01:02:16.953)
i- i- i- i agree, i agree with shit. like, but, they still matter.
TeamCaptain (01:02:22.034)
People don't know how to read stats. Most people don't know how to read stats. A new busted hero will get released like Elsa and Elsa will have a 50 % win rate or a 49 % win rate and people will be like, she's not broken, she has a 50 % win rate. Well it's almost like both teams are always playing her when she's open. Can people not work that out? It's pretty easy to work out.
IRunShibb (01:02:22.828)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (01:02:37.069)
Mm-hmm
Coach Mills (01:02:39.635)
Yeah, and I'm not gonna try to act pretentious here or anything like that. I went to college for five years and didn't get a degree. I'm a failure, whatever. But the first day of my stats class, I remember, I think it was my freshman year whatever, they were like, no one knows how to read stats. And here's why. And they just brought up things about this stats could, someone could read it like this or like this or like this or like this. And all of them are actually wrong. I was like, okay, cool.
IRunShibb (01:02:40.268)
Yeah, yeah.
Captain Coach (01:02:40.899)
Yeah. Yeah.
IRunShibb (01:02:50.114)
Hahaha
IRunShibb (01:03:07.426)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (01:03:08.787)
But I just think that it's easy to jump to too many conclusions with stats. know, just like it's easy to jump to conclusions with, have gold damage or I have the most LMs or I, you know, like we just talked about how, you know, our in-game stats don't matter. But also I think win rate stats can not matter, but it could matter if you'd look at it like Captain Coach and you look at the pick rate and you look at the win rate, you know, if a character has above 50 % win rate and above 50 % pick rate and you know, 30 % ban rate, like, yeah, okay. Probably that character is...
in need of something.
Captain Coach (01:03:39.87)
I think also we forget a character gets picked because they're good, especially in higher ranks. So if a character is picked more in higher ranks, then you have to look at it between ranks and think like, maybe it's because the people picking that hero get to higher ranks because it's OP. So I think, yeah, I think it can go either way where it's like, Widow, obviously it's like a really low win rate because that's the throw hero. We can talk about why, but.
IRunShibb (01:03:54.264)
Mm-hmm
Captain Coach (01:04:07.417)
Right, so it's like, yeah, some things are clearly biased, but I do think it matters. But when it comes to supports, when I think only like two or three are the ones like always getting picked, to me, I feel like that's an issue. Would you agree that's kind of like happening right now, guys? Cause I feel like it's usually just like a couple. Like I don't think there's that much. I mean, there's not as many healers, but I don't think there's like a ton of diversity. you know what not to play and what to play in most games, you usually see like in Viz.
Gambit when he's up, but usually he's ban, cloak, then like mantis and ultron when you can pick them together in triple. And it's pretty much just like Luna for triple healed.
Coach Mills (01:04:43.971)
I might be biased, but if you ban triple support and you ban Invis, the support role is super open, because Cloak is terrible against Dive. She just dies every time, so does Luna. And Dive is so good.
Captain Coach (01:04:55.205)
I feel like all the healers are good. They're all good. There's comps for everything. It's just like, what can your healers play?
Coach Mills (01:05:00.541)
Because like Shib, before the nerfs to Cloak and Dagger, she saw zero play in Ignite, Cloak and Dagger did. So what do you think is the reason for that? In pro play compared to people's perspective in ranked play is that Cloak is this broken character and they nerfed her ultimate or their ultimate. But then you go over to pro play and there's literally no Cloak and Dagger at all. So what do you think that disconnect is? And how can we kind of replicate that in ranked play?
IRunShibb (01:05:01.826)
Fox is nasty too.
IRunShibb (01:05:16.963)
Hmm.
IRunShibb (01:05:26.03)
Yeah, so the thought is, I mean, she's like, there's still opportunities, especially like overtime situations where like the all at the time was nice to have because it was a little longer and you could initiate with it. And sometimes that's still the case when there's a lot of strat bands because you can kind of push forward with cloak and force out of strat alt and with a fight. But yeah, typically not as commonly played. And I think that's due. I actually talked to a lot of strats about this before I did the tier list, like the pros, I wanted to get there taken. It made sense to me is when you're playing cloak and dagger in this current meta, you don't have as much KO potential unless you fully
commit to damage and in a meta where neutral is very important right now where you're trying to get picks through the chaos like at the same time of healing like you know what mean like you can just do so much damage for example on Luna who I do think is a lot better now with the damage changes you can get picks and heal and don't have to commit where cloak really doesn't have that unless you're ulting and you're staying in cloak form right like you are forced into either damage or healing and in the very top level pro play you want to have the ability to
Find picks on your own and not just be locked in on either side.
Coach Mills (01:06:27.365)
So like the opposite of like why Jeff is being played because he can heal and damage at the exact same time. I see what you're saying. They have to pick. You have to pick one or the other. That's interesting. I guess when you're trying to min max things, you like you need to be doing both as much as possible.
IRunShibb (01:06:30.656)
He does it both in place aggro. Yeah. Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:06:33.722)
Yeah, that's...
Captain Coach (01:06:39.825)
Would you say her damage is too telegraphed too? I guess too slow? She has to be kinda close up?
IRunShibb (01:06:46.946)
Yeah, that, that, yeah. And then the other side of coin is like, I do think that Terror Cape's disgusting cooldown, much like how Thing at the top level play was actually considered pretty good too, because you could purple people on command. Like you could press a button and make them take more damage. Like that's huge for team play and coordination, but it's still like, it's a little more dicey now because the meta is just weird and like things like, even Emma, the reason Emma and Thing aren't played as much is because there's so much movement in the meta right now that you're wasting your cooldowns trying to chase all the time and you just feel useless. Like you're just chasing after just like, you know, unstoppable heroes at all times.
But yeah, I think in a similar vein for Cloak, it's just like, you know, like you're saying, like if you're gonna deal damage, you gotta be right up in their face, you gotta be ulting into them, you're not just sitting there and trying to deal damage for them.
Captain Coach (01:07:22.33)
Yeah.
Don't you feel like in a game where, assuming the supports are perfectly balanced, Cloak will be one of the first ones not to get picked in prog, just because of her skill ceiling being inherently, I feel like kind of lower than other heroes too. It's kind of hard as Luna to consistently aim, but I feel like, is she getting played a lot? Because I feel like she's kind of secretly busted.
IRunShibb (01:07:37.4)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:07:44.327)
More play than Cloak and Daggr for sure.
IRunShibb (01:07:46.926)
But she'll get even more of the new season for sure, I think. Kathy, you've been scrimmin' at the time. Have you been? Have you been scrimmin'? Yeah, yeah. What are your thoughts on Shrap Metal? Or if you don't, I don't know if you could talk about it actually. It's up to you, Okay.
Captain Coach (01:07:49.168)
Right.
Coach Mills (01:07:49.361)
Yeah, and that was before Herbuff, yeah.
TeamCaptain (01:07:51.803)
You have.
Coach Mills (01:07:57.139)
Bleeks! Okay, no, that's not good.
TeamCaptain (01:07:57.363)
No can talk, it's fine. I don't Enva is super broken, like probably second best support in the game. Usually protected first over Manta sometimes. I think Gambit is still the strongest support in the game. Luna is definitely good. I would say she's good in triple support because she can actually do a lot of damage as well. I would say Ultron is insanely good as well.
Captain Coach (01:07:58.929)
Ha
IRunShibb (01:08:05.454)
Mm.
IRunShibb (01:08:12.705)
yeah.
TeamCaptain (01:08:25.85)
Mantis like I said is broken. Jeff is really good and the hard enabler Dive Comp, if you don't have Jeff, Dive kind of falls apart and it's like a kind of a shelf itself. And then I would say White Fox is kind of a crazy addition to the support role where she can basically defend herself against divers super well and is kind of insane if you put her on a flank with like a dive tank, like a Captain America.
Coach Mills (01:08:27.879)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (01:08:52.024)
Cap. Yeah.
TeamCaptain (01:08:53.818)
and she's just like constantly dealing damage to your backline and as soon as anyone tries to deal with her she just teleports away goodbye. But yeah I think supports are super diverse in like what you can play but it's just I think some are a bit too over tuned. Like there's no reason that Envy should have 275 HP for example that is just a crime against humanity.
IRunShibb (01:08:59.224)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (01:08:59.251)
Shout out Kiriko.
Captain Coach (01:09:00.302)
Mm-hmm.
TeamCaptain (01:09:19.858)
Like why does she have the same HP as a Wunna and a White Fox when she has like a 250 HP shield and command on top of that you know?
IRunShibb (01:09:29.196)
And invisibility on command.
Coach Mills (01:09:29.287)
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (01:09:30.754)
and invisibility.
Captain Coach (01:09:31.397)
Coach Mills (01:09:32.753)
Yeah, I think at least on this pod we've expressed our frustration with Invis over probably any other character, like probably the most of every character in the game is we fucking hate Invis. In fact, we should make merch that says Nerf Invis. Like I'm down and I think people would buy it because fuck Invis. Like, I'm sorry, but... Of course, of course, we gotta make money. Exactly. No, but...
IRunShibb (01:09:37.262)
You
TeamCaptain (01:09:41.489)
Right, Fueso?
Captain Coach (01:09:42.309)
I
IRunShibb (01:09:43.224)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:09:50.652)
but you're still gonna use her, like a picture of her skin on the shirt to sell it. You gotta find a good one, you know.
IRunShibb (01:09:54.68)
Hahaha
Coach Mills (01:09:58.739)
Like I think besides it's it's crazy because I think like objectively like gambit is probably more powerful than in this but like from a frustrating to play type thing like they're adding all these things like the tenacity changes for Making the game less frustrating this fucking one characters existence is the cause of
IRunShibb (01:10:17.826)
Mm-hmm
Coach Mills (01:10:18.841)
A lot of frustration no matter what character I play. I'm frustrated against invis. I'm not gonna lie and I understand Okay, you know they're gonna go in the comments and say skill issue. I get it but like It's so like it literally doesn't matter what hero I play. I'm always frustrated up against an invis
Captain Coach (01:10:22.513)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (01:10:29.016)
Mm-hmm
Captain Coach (01:10:35.761)
I I don't know how it's a skill issue to just have like about to be killing someone and then she just presses one button and then puts that shield on them. They're just like immune to death. Like whoever she was, I just, she has way too much like survivability. She just makes it impossible to kill anyone in a game. Like, I don't know. I like nerf that hero. I don't care. I think she's the best hero in the game. I'm sorry. I'm not going to shut up about her. Let's just change the subject. Let's just, let's just change the subject.
IRunShibb (01:10:56.685)
You
Coach Mills (01:11:00.819)
Okay, of a different subject Yeah, no, we actually should get the those shirts though. That's actually a sick idea but anyways, going back to I want to talk about blade last time you were on the pod we talked about blade team captain and You know every time he comes out with a big buff I'm like hopeful and like he feels good then like the more you play him the more you play me like It's just not quite there. Like he's close, but it just feels like They can never push him over the hump
Do you think it's a numbers problem? Do you think it's a fundamental, like his design needs to be different, he needs to rework? What would you do to make this character like a real viable character?
TeamCaptain (01:11:39.763)
This kit is fundamentally flawed like for example when you go into your sword form right you only have one thing that you can really do you can attack someone or can dash at someone that's your two options right look at other melee characters you spiderman right he can pull you in he can come towards you he can uppercut you he can do all these things when he's trying to do his melee stuff then you got blade he has a dash that's clunky as hell
and then he can just auto attack you the whole time and that's it. He has no form of burst damage when he's in close, he has no form of doing anything else other than just auto attacking you. He needs a new ability. I think he needs a new ability when he has his sword out. Because the way I see it is that he's just like, can use the sword or use the gun, but then he's super lackluster in both. So no matter what form you're switching between, you're just kinda whatever, you're super.
one ear and what you can do. It needs a no belly. It's quite simple.
Coach Mills (01:12:41.651)
But what do you think about this? I mean, they could just make this a cool down, but my idea was, once you build up max stacks, you could just hold those stacks, and then there was an ability you could press that was like a dash, like 100 damage, 120 damage dash, but it's like a short range dash, so it looks like a smaller version of your ult. And then you could combo it with get max stacks, carry those stacks, dash into ult, do a big burst on someone, kill them instantly. Just some way to do burst damage. I 100 % agree with you.
TeamCaptain (01:13:06.766)
I like the idea of like working upon the stacks like mechanic, what they can maybe do if I build on top of that is like maybe you could spend stacks to use the ability that they could add on so it's not like too overpowered and I personally believe just make it so the ability gives them like overshield or something like they've, all the good melee DPS have overshield on their abilities is a proven fact that
Coach Mills (01:13:28.645)
You
TeamCaptain (01:13:34.076)
that is probably what separates them from the other ones like Daredevil for example and now Black Cat is another character with over shields that is extremely oppressive I just think the over health is what really separates the bad from the good in the melee DPS role at least
Captain Coach (01:13:51.132)
Do you think over health like that should be in the game on DPS characters? I have an idea for like why they put it in, but only for some. Like Star Lord, for instance.
TeamCaptain (01:13:57.042)
only for some.
TeamCaptain (01:14:02.887)
For Star Wars it feels a bit bullshit but it's not too bad.
Coach Mills (01:14:05.127)
Right, yeah.
Captain Coach (01:14:05.777)
Kind of why I brought it up. I think they're trying to make a push towards making DPS a bit more self-sufficient. And I'm curious to your thoughts on this. To kind of push it more to like the tanks are more reliant on the healers and the DPS are the people who kind of do their own things.
TeamCaptain (01:14:09.145)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:14:20.371)
That kind of reminds me of a, this is the change that they did in Overwatch. I want to hear y'all's opinion real quick, because you just reminded me directly of this, Captain Coach. So one of the best feelings about playing Tank Pool is that when you're out of the fight for a little bit, you start healing automatically. And so they did this back in Overwatch, where after you out of the fight, you took no damage.
Captain Coach (01:14:26.746)
Yeah, yeah, you're good.
IRunShibb (01:14:33.101)
Mmm.
Coach Mills (01:14:37.031)
for a little bit, know, seven seconds, eight seconds, you started gaining a little tiny bit of healing automatically. I think something that they could do is they could probably reduce the healing overall amount on the supports, you know, reduce it by 10 % or something like that, but then give every hero this sort of passive, you know, self-sufficiency. And what that would do is it makes it less, you're less relying on supports, supports are less relying on heals. I just think it just feels less frustrating overall. I mean, it feels super good on Tank Pool. It's not so much to the point where
You don't need supports because you do, but you can hold an off angle for a little bit. Wait, wait for your team to set up and you're back to full health. You know, you can go in with them.
Captain Coach (01:15:08.218)
I like.
Captain Coach (01:15:14.683)
Just to kind of spur the conversation a little bit too, that would completely change the way I played Hulk, for instance, just as a little disclaimer. It would completely change some heroes and what they're able to do. So I'm absolutely for something like that, personally.
IRunShibb (01:15:20.813)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (01:15:29.523)
It was one of those changes that when people heard about it, they didn't like the idea of it in Overwatch. But then the second it was implemented, it was like one of those changes that everyone loved. It was like, we cannot get rid of this. This is the best change they ever did. Kind of very similar to everyone's reaction to this old change where there was still some non-believers about it. And then the second they felt it, they're like, holy shit, this is amazing. Like we need more of this.
IRunShibb (01:15:35.222)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (01:15:49.971)
That's kind of along those lines. think it would be a great change for the game and it would be a way that you can, because I think the first thing you say is like, we need to nerf, know, sustain and healing. And they say, oh, you take so much damage, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This would be a way to kind of offset that, you know, take some of the power away and some of the pressure away from supports at the same time.
IRunShibb (01:16:08.79)
Yeah, it seems like their current thought on it right now is like they do that through health packs is right. It's like as long as you know the locations, like you can generate a ton of over health because you do or health in general because you do heal over time if you're not getting hit after grabbing a health pack. But yeah, I'm with you guys. mean, yeah, you know, I like that for sure. And Overwatch, I thought like the because it was it was like what healing for Vanguard's it was something for Duelist and Earth or whatever they DPS and in supports to each got something individually different like that would happen passively. they
Coach Mills (01:16:34.973)
Well, they did, and then they eventually gave the passive to everybody, the heal passive to everybody. Yeah, but originally, yeah, Supports got the heal passive. DPS, when they apply damage to a target for a certain amount of seconds, they had a healing reduction, anti-healing reduction, and then Tanks just got a flat CC reduction. It was like 30 % less, they're booped around less, right? But then eventually they changed that and they did give the healing to everybody over time. And it was just one of those changes that...
IRunShibb (01:16:38.349)
Okay.
IRunShibb (01:16:47.338)
Anti? Yeah, that's what I thought.
Okay.
IRunShibb (01:16:55.438)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (01:17:02.225)
the people that played supports, it felt really good on them. And then they're like, okay, let's just apply this to other roles too. And then it felt really good on them too. It did make some characters really strong initially, but then they just bounced around and it was fine. So.
IRunShibb (01:17:14.796)
Yeah, I think it would require some balancing too, but yeah, because it would, I think it would make, you know, again, it play really well into like dive stuff, like very much so more so than like your very frontline front to back kind of comps. But that's not necessarily to say it's a bad thing. I just think it might change up the meta even more than it already kind of has been in the season. I don't hate it. And I like the idea of like passive stuff that happens for each role that might, you know, make the game a little more, I don't know, not necessarily even to say better, but definitely different. Like I, you know, and I don't mind stuff like that. So I'm curious, I'd be down to mess with it.
But I'm also curious as to how much it would completely change certain heroes and make them just so much better than the rest, you know.
Coach Mills (01:17:49.393)
Yeah, definitely like for Tracer, which for those of you who never played Overwatch watching at home, Tracer is like a super self-sufficient character that can like teleport around and be independent. She became really, really strong with this change because she could just be on an island somewhere and, you know, just dip out of the five for 10 seconds and then she's back into full health. Dip out of the five for 10 seconds, back into full health. Kind of similar to how Tankpull operates right now.
IRunShibb (01:18:06.51)
Mm.
Coach Mills (01:18:10.771)
to be honest, but you can always adjust that number. Maybe they have to be outside of the fight for 12 seconds or 15 or whatever the case may be. But it's very, yeah, that's another thing. It's just weird. Like, let's say Captain Coach made a play, he got a kill, he got out of the fight at, you know, 100 HP. His team's dead. He can't set up somewhere and wait for them to come back up and engage. He has to go all the way back to his team, get all the way full healed. Then he has to get back set up. It's like all the advantage that he gained in the previous fight is completely gone.
IRunShibb (01:18:10.979)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:18:18.117)
Maybe you don't get healed before.
IRunShibb (01:18:20.163)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (01:18:33.39)
Mmm.
Captain Coach (01:18:40.571)
Well, I mean, I'll get the health packs. I know you mentioned that, but I get yelled at for getting them by Spider-Mans. Because it doesn't, it hardly heals me, but it's like a full heal for them.
Coach Mills (01:18:44.625)
Yeah, you could get scouted out or seen like, right. Yeah. But like, imagine if you could stage like all the way behind them and still be okay, you know, or you don't even have to move from your spot. Like, I just think it opens up the game and you know, it's a real response besides just like, hey, we're just going to nerf all the support healing and fuck you guys. You know, like it's a, it kind of
Captain Coach (01:18:52.771)
Yeah, no, I would love a change like that.
IRunShibb (01:18:54.69)
True.
Captain Coach (01:19:05.861)
Supports wouldn't have anything to do if they added that change. They'd actually realize how shit they were when they actually felt like, do damage. I'd just be in the back live, bro. Like, I don't need them anymore.
IRunShibb (01:19:08.319)
Hahaha
Coach Mills (01:19:08.605)
Well, that's the thing is like, I think a change like that might actually maybe enable, you know, types of comps that maybe you could do some to support Mantis comps hypothetically, you know, like I just think it's definitely something that is reasonable to try. We could explore. think it's reasonable. And like pretty much it's funny because I like to compare Overwatch and Rivals a lot just because
IRunShibb (01:19:14.254)
you
Captain Coach (01:19:22.993)
It'd be awesome. Better balance means more calm. Yeah.
IRunShibb (01:19:23.48)
Yeah, yeah. Which I don't necessarily want, but.
For sure.
Coach Mills (01:19:37.991)
the changes they implement. an example is there was no bans in Overwatch forever and everyone wanted bans and they would not give us bans and then Rivals implemented it and people were like we fucking love bans. And then they implemented it Overwatch immediately and people love it, right? And so like when things are implemented in a hero shooter and they work and people like them, I'm a huge fan of trying them in the other one. And the same thing, Overwatch alt nerfed multiple times and every time they did it, it was light. So I knew it was gonna be perceived well in Rivals because Rivals was just.
IRunShibb (01:19:58.52)
Sure.
Coach Mills (01:20:06.483)
cranked up to the max. So I don't know, that's the space that I like.
Captain Coach (01:20:08.593)
What think about that team, Captain?
TeamCaptain (01:20:11.043)
I think I'd be down for it yeah, sounds good. I do think that some heroes would benefit a bit more like Zatlock, Spider-Man, Star-Lord, like flankers I think that's pretty obvious but yeah you can easily balance around that I would say. I think it's overall a positive rather than a negative for the game, I'd be down to test it. And like Coach Miles was saying like if it worked in the other like game that was very similar to Rivals
then why not try it here? I think we should be copying each other's, well wouldn't say copying is the right word, but piggybacking off each other's successes and trying to use that to go forward to make more positive change for both games. I think that's always a good thing. That's the best thing about the fact that we have two hero shooters that are actually competitive is that now if there's a negative change, one will see that and not go forward with.
that change in the future and if there's a positive change then the other game can follow suit, you know.
Captain Coach (01:21:12.911)
Yeah. And it leads to other positive changes because you get like more ideas, more people playing the game like, okay, now we don't need all this perma sustain. Now, like you said, new play styles unlock. Well, maybe now we don't need health packs. How about a health pack that is like an objective on the map that gives all charge, like 20 % to somebody and then you fight over it. Like you could do so many cool things with like that or maybe like a damage buff for a little bit. then like, I think they should just experience.
Coach Mills (01:21:33.644)
yeah.
Coach Mills (01:21:41.371)
That's very League of Legends, I like it though. It's like something you hunt to get an advantage. The Rejuvenator from Deadlock, yeah.
IRunShibb (01:21:43.394)
Mm-hmm
Captain Coach (01:21:43.46)
Yeah, Like the health packs are, yeah, yeah, like creative ways to kind of give everybody more agency, right? But also kind of like balance the game. Because if everybody has access to these things, like things like mobility, for instance, now becomes more of a premium, which I feel like is kind of undervalued in the current game state. Like maybe not so much in like, like dive is actually pretty good now, but I think for a while mobility was pretty undervalued, but I think.
Coach Mills (01:21:54.353)
They should, they could do that in.
Captain Coach (01:22:12.591)
you know, it's gotten better. But yeah, I I think there's like a lot of cool things you can do when everybody's kind of able to play the way they want in some ways and not feel so reliant on the other roles to function.
Coach Mills (01:22:23.899)
Yeah, I think it would also help some of this friction that people are feeling between the roles because like we're both simultaneously frustrated with the support role, but we also need them and we rely on them. And I think that adds more frustration and it probably adds pressure to them too. They're getting the... Okay. Okay, so I'm going to give you all quick, quick questions. I just want to hear your opinion on them, you know, real fast and then we'll move on. I just want real fast from everyone and move on. Black Cat Thoughts, real quick, should be first.
Captain Coach (01:22:31.077)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:22:34.417)
I treat my supports good, baby.
IRunShibb (01:22:39.402)
Hahaha
IRunShibb (01:22:53.186)
Gonna be disgusting with more time. She's very difficult, but we'll be dirty in team play.
Coach Mills (01:22:58.227)
Probably a nightmare to cast too, most likely. It's gonna be a can of- Team Captain, quick! Yeah, Team Captain, what do you think? Quick thoughts.
Captain Coach (01:23:01.169)
Got a lot of math.
TeamCaptain (01:23:05.49)
I have 20 hours in Black Cat, she's the best DPS in the game, she has insane utility, insane iframe ability that you just can't do anything against, her sustain is broken on its own, wallhack that she can give to her entire team, constant invisibility, like I don't know the character is just overloaded with tools to use. mean the better people get this character the stronger she's gonna get.
Coach Mills (01:23:10.165)
yeah?
IRunShibb (01:23:14.35)
Mm.
TeamCaptain (01:23:31.928)
and people are already running the lobbies on her and she's been banned so...
Coach Mills (01:23:33.883)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (01:23:35.246)
Mm-hmm.
Captain Coach (01:23:35.961)
Yeah, are we crunched on time, Coach Mills? Is that why we're going fast? Because I did want to
Coach Mills (01:23:39.379)
No, no, I'm going to do another you can you can you can go longer I just wanted to kind of jump through like five different topics real quick and then we'll
Captain Coach (01:23:44.088)
Okay, because I was talking to Light, another guest we've had frequent on this podcast, and he said under no circumstances would Black Cat ever be better than Daredevil, and that's Daredevil's his name, and he's also been spamming Black Cat. I'm kind of starting a little argument, like where's he?
Coach Mills (01:24:04.339)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, if you're poorer than a billionaire, are you poor? You know what I'm saying? Like like, we're talking about fucking Daredevil here. Like that guy's, Daredevil's so legit, you know?
IRunShibb (01:24:08.717)
Hahaha
Captain Coach (01:24:09.231)
Hahaha
Captain Coach (01:24:13.401)
Right, I guess what I, yeah, I wanna find like, okay, where's that disagreement lie? Like in what way do you rank Black Cat higher than Cause I think Daredevil is currently still the best personally, but I have not been spamming Black Cat like you, I've only played against her and I've realized I can duel her, but that's probably not what most Black Cats are really supposed to do is be dueling a Hulk. So like, yeah, where's that disagreement lie? Is it just learning the hero?
TeamCaptain (01:24:15.141)
I also disagree.
IRunShibb (01:24:33.676)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:24:34.414)
You're right.
TeamCaptain (01:24:39.397)
The wallhack is stronger on Black Cat than Daredevil because her teammates can easily use it as opposed to this Daredevil having the common information 24x7, you know? Like she can just place the wallhack behind the wall and then her supporters can see any kind of flankers that are trying to go for them and react to it preemptively. Her...
IRunShibb (01:24:45.282)
Mm-hmm.
Captain Coach (01:24:57.541)
the eyeball. Okay, just making sure, making sure.
Coach Mills (01:24:58.919)
Yeah, the eyeball. The Sauron, Iron Sauron, yeah.
IRunShibb (01:24:59.436)
Yeah, the ball, the fireball.
TeamCaptain (01:25:00.645)
Die ball, die ball. The TP is going to be completely broken in team play, you can literally just put your entire team through choke points that you would have to fight for and then you instantly won the space. The fish, you can completely deny anyone from using mobility, so if you spam the fish in their backline, Jeff can't use his burrow, Invis can't use double jump and I'm sure the less goes on for supports that can't use mobility when snared than that.
IRunShibb (01:25:05.664)
Yes.
Coach Mills (01:25:06.547)
Thank
IRunShibb (01:25:11.053)
Mm-hmm.
TeamCaptain (01:25:28.273)
The invisibility is spammable more than Psylocke you can use that for getting out of jail easily Her sustain and her cleave is 10 times better than Daredevil I don't know if you guys have played Blutcat at all but she has an ability where she spends 150 coins to basically whip and a cone and the cone does like insane damage and it hits multiple targets so you go into their backline and you just go
and then they're all taking this damage 24 seven and you're hitting everyone in their back line. Daredevil doesn't really have that to that extent. Like he has the batons, but it doesn't do as much damage and you can't spam it as often. And I think that one is just insanely broken. Like think about Venom going on their back line and then a black cat coming on top and just hitting them all as the venom has them all snared. They're going to get popped. And then I think that all was better.
Coach Mills (01:25:57.915)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (01:26:20.137)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (01:26:20.305)
Yeah. I think it's a...
Captain Coach (01:26:24.209)
Yeah, it seems like the versatility, like her being able to just be better in more situations is seemingly why you think she's... Yeah.
TeamCaptain (01:26:28.965)
Versatility and utility, definitely.
Coach Mills (01:26:32.499)
It's also, I think a lot of it's gonna be, you know, Black Cat or Daredevil, whichever one's banned. It's like a lot harder to ban out a really good dive player, because they just have both in their bag. You have to ban both, and then it makes it really hard.
TeamCaptain (01:26:39.983)
Yes.
Captain Coach (01:26:40.145)
Hmm.
IRunShibb (01:26:41.772)
Yeah, yeah.
Captain Coach (01:26:45.275)
Yeah, that was kind of
TeamCaptain (01:26:45.645)
I dread band phase now because anytime they have a daredevil player they're always going to be a black cat player so even if you ban one or the other you're just going have to deal with them. think there's just... there's nothing you can do. There's nothing you can do.
Captain Coach (01:26:53.009)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (01:26:55.987)
That's eventually going to be a problem by the way. you can't ban out pro players now. Eventually every type of player you're never going to be able to ban them out. When there's five dive tanks, there's five dive DPS, there's, you know, you're just never going to, I mean, that's just going to happen. Maybe we'll have 10 bans eventually. I don't know. I do know I popped into Quackly's stream. He was in eternity playing Black Cat and I was asking him a couple of questions and he's like,
IRunShibb (01:26:56.13)
Mm-hmm.
Captain Coach (01:26:57.889)
Yeah, so...
TeamCaptain (01:27:05.68)
No.
TeamCaptain (01:27:11.089)
It's definitely pick your poison.
Captain Coach (01:27:12.889)
Yeah, well, that was.
IRunShibb (01:27:15.936)
Hahaha
Captain Coach (01:27:19.78)
yeah, it's been spamming her.
Coach Mills (01:27:23.623)
this character is really good but I don't want to say too much because I don't want this character to get banned and I was like it's like that I was like it's like that it's it's the character is that good that you don't even want to talk about the character publicly shout out quickly though you should come on the pod but anyways
Captain Coach (01:27:27.259)
Bro, he said the same shit to me. He literally said that to me.
IRunShibb (01:27:32.426)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:27:33.627)
Well, that was gonna be my next question.
IRunShibb (01:27:37.485)
Hehehehe
Captain Coach (01:27:38.161)
Yeah, that was gonna be my next question is how would you nerf her? Please, please God tell me.
Coach Mills (01:27:41.363)
Characters so I feel like the character is so complicated and high skill that you probably should wait. You should probably wait a while I think you know like if you're if you're underneath celestial There's just no possible way you're playing this character even remotely close to their potential characters just so hard
TeamCaptain (01:27:44.881)
she will get nerfed.
Captain Coach (01:27:49.827)
Yeah, no, I agree. I agree.
Captain Coach (01:27:57.714)
Now you're right.
TeamCaptain (01:27:59.826)
I don't think she's as toxic as Elsa by any means. Elsa was ten times more toxic. Like Elsa genuinely made me like wanna quit for a little bit. can't lie. Especially as a tank player. But I think Black Cat, the only thing that's like remotely toxic is the wall hack. Like I think it's so silly that you can place it behind the wall and it still shows people. I thought the way it would work because of the mechanic that it shoots a beam on people would be
Coach Mills (01:28:04.819)
Yeah
IRunShibb (01:28:06.08)
percent based.
Coach Mills (01:28:08.784)
I agree.
IRunShibb (01:28:21.006)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (01:28:21.671)
You
TeamCaptain (01:28:28.153)
it could only show people that are in the LOS of the eye because then they would have to like shoot it because it's beaming them but I don't know I think placing it behind a wall and then it just wallhacks is kind of dumb personally
IRunShibb (01:28:40.556)
My thought was that it was initially supposed to be damage dealer and that's the beam was there because I'm with you like dude Never put it in front of anyone always put it in a side room right up against the wall that they're out for the next room over and you can see everyone and it's never breakable and Everyone has vision 24 7
TeamCaptain (01:28:44.699)
yeah.
TeamCaptain (01:28:52.921)
it's a far distance as well, it's a lot further than you would think.
IRunShibb (01:28:57.472)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, people don't understand that and then like other like just to build off the black cat stuff I mean you you were talking about penny being strong dude You could just portal through a wall away away from her minds now with your whole team and then her mind spawners gone in a minute And she's even more useless
Coach Mills (01:29:05.427)
I can I cannot wait. I don't really watch that much pro play right now. Sorry. I know y'all y'all cast and play it. I will start watching it more as we kind of ramp up towards ignite. But I cannot wait to see Black Cat and pro play like the stuff that people are going to pull off with that character that teams are going to pull off the walls they're going to find that are probably going to look like borderline export exploits because of what they're allowed to do.
IRunShibb (01:29:16.206)
You're good.
Captain Coach (01:29:22.264)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:29:26.896)
What?
IRunShibb (01:29:29.551)
Yeah
TeamCaptain (01:29:30.333)
I can tell you some, I can tell you one right now that people are doing a lot in scrums. So if you, know, the central park on attack where you get that really annoying choke point that people love to play Groot on. I think that you can do is on the first health pack on the attacker's side, that's like the right side, you can all sit in that room and you, you place the portal up and then you can teleport on the right side high ground and just walk around on them.
IRunShibb (01:29:37.666)
Yes.
Coach Mills (01:29:47.303)
Yep, yep, that little circular room.
IRunShibb (01:29:48.044)
in that room.
Captain Coach (01:29:49.24)
yeah.
Coach Mills (01:29:55.039)
my... That's insane. That's insane. So what we need to do, Shib, is we need to play, get Black Cat, get up there as you guys group, and we just set the fuck up. That's our room now, and we have their high ground.
Captain Coach (01:29:56.184)
wow.
IRunShibb (01:29:57.218)
I didn't know you could do that.
TeamCaptain (01:29:57.401)
So like you can just completely negate that entire choke point.
Captain Coach (01:29:59.218)
That is insane.
IRunShibb (01:30:03.208)
we're doing it yeah yeah i'm wondering if you put ironwood down if it stops the portal up there i'm curious if you could throw that there just to mess with the
Captain Coach (01:30:07.233)
Hahaha
Coach Mills (01:30:15.535)
If you could interrupt, yeah.
TeamCaptain (01:30:16.409)
What people are doing and what I was doing was I was saying they have a black cat you can hear her doing the portal just everyone set up around the world they're come out and just fucking kill them as soon as they come out
IRunShibb (01:30:25.334)
Mm-hmm. Surprising.
Coach Mills (01:30:26.311)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:30:26.674)
Or you say Penny's not viable, go Penny and put it right there. Surprise.
IRunShibb (01:30:30.4)
Replace it right there. Yeah
TeamCaptain (01:30:30.405)
Penny in South Main's there, yeah. There you go.
Coach Mills (01:30:31.475)
Okay, next speed question that wasn't really a speed question but next question PVE, how do y'all feel about the new PVE? I don't know if y'all played it I personally did not but I'm curious about your thoughts about it even if you just from the outside looking in and just the evolution of PVE, know in the game like it they're making it a bigger thing They're adding new ones. We're gonna get another one soon What do you think? Did you play it team captain? Did you give it a try?
IRunShibb (01:30:38.093)
Haha!
TeamCaptain (01:30:58.573)
I played it, got top 10 leaderboard for the nightmare thing. I think this one was nice, it was cool, I liked it. I did think they did good changes for like the way the system works. I preferred gear systems as opposed to the last one where, did you guys play the last one? In the last one you would have to like spam through before the wave all your upgrades.
Coach Mills (01:31:02.515)
Okay
Coach Mills (01:31:18.002)
Yeah, a little bit.
IRunShibb (01:31:18.19)
it yeah.
Captain Coach (01:31:18.833)
little bit.
Coach Mills (01:31:25.127)
Right, the spin, the spin, yeah. Yeah, yeah, right, yeah.
TeamCaptain (01:31:25.175)
and it was basically based on how fast you could pick your upgrades. That was really annoying. I would rather just pick my upgrades before I go in and they've done a great change for that. I do think that the PvE could be a bit more like when you shoot the enemies, it feels a bit more feedback because right now it's just like you're shooting into like these dummies that have a ton of health. Like especially when you go to the higher waves, it's just stat.
IRunShibb (01:31:25.358)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:31:28.657)
Mm-hmm.
TeamCaptain (01:31:52.85)
sponges that you just need to try and kill over like a period of time. I feel like, I don't know, it could be a bit more impact when I hit them, to make it more engaging but I don't know, it's good, I like it a lot. I'm more excited for the Loki mode that they're coming out with where it's one player plays Loki and the other six play the Avengers. That sounds fun to me.
IRunShibb (01:32:10.734)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (01:32:12.403)
Oh, that's cool. Reminds me of, um, oh man, Evolved. Did you ever hear about that game Evolved back in the day? That game flopped, but it kind of reminds me of that where it's like one person plays as the monster. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's, that's pretty cool.
Captain Coach (01:32:14.712)
Yes.
IRunShibb (01:32:19.56)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
TeamCaptain (01:32:19.811)
evolved yeah
Captain Coach (01:32:21.311)
yeah!
IRunShibb (01:32:24.13)
or D by D. Yeah.
TeamCaptain (01:32:26.683)
Did you play Team Fortress 2 where it's called Saxton Hale mode? Where one person would play as Saxton Hale and the others had to try and kill him? I think that's what it's going to play like.
Captain Coach (01:32:26.843)
That game was.
Captain Coach (01:32:31.513)
no.
Coach Mills (01:32:34.735)
I'm not, that's sick. That's gonna be sick. I'm excited to try it. I don't know if you saw, you know, I'm never for any exploits or anything like that, know, whatever I have to say, but I saw that people were playing as Kingpin. I don't know if you all saw that. But you like Kingpin is, you can fully play as that character. Like people were taking control of it and fighting each other with it.
IRunShibb (01:32:35.31)
you
Captain Coach (01:32:48.209)
This guy, this is coming from a, this is coming from a tank pool player by the way, not exploits.
IRunShibb (01:32:48.332)
Yeah, I did too.
Hahaha
TeamCaptain (01:32:59.409)
Does he have UI?
Captain Coach (01:32:59.697)
I saw that.
Coach Mills (01:33:00.977)
Yeah, it has abilities, UI, all the cooldowns. was like, they actually made Kingpin. They could legitimately put that character in the game tomorrow if they wanted to. Legit. I thought it was very interesting how they made him. mean, I'm sure his interactions, like probably coding and making the interactions with all the other heroes is probably what's harder, you know? So it's probably not like release ready, but it is interesting how it's like they legitimately just made him. Like they just straight up made him.
IRunShibb (01:33:01.76)
I did.
IRunShibb (01:33:11.65)
You probably will at some point. Yeah. Yeah.
TeamCaptain (01:33:12.305)
That was cool.
TeamCaptain (01:33:29.627)
The Kingpin boss fight was like Elden Ring, like did you guys play Elden Ring at all? You know the Hora Lu boss fight where he like starts like wrestling you and grabbing you and stuff? It's the second last boss before you fight the Elden Ring boss, Elden Beast.
Captain Coach (01:33:34.949)
Hell yeah, love Elden Ring.
IRunShibb (01:33:34.986)
yeah.
IRunShibb (01:33:41.346)
Mmm.
Captain Coach (01:33:48.379)
I never beat the game. I beat millennia, then I... I don't remember.
TeamCaptain (01:33:50.009)
or you never beat the game.
TeamCaptain (01:33:54.373)
You beat one millennia before you beat home?
IRunShibb (01:33:54.817)
rested like Thanos.
Captain Coach (01:33:57.362)
Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I really like the game, but I think something just came up where I had to stop playing it, and I just never came back to it, because I'm like, I don't want to refresh myself. I was pretty far into it. I was pretty far into it. What build does your run?
IRunShibb (01:34:04.206)
you
TeamCaptain (01:34:06.513)
That's fair.
IRunShibb (01:34:09.528)
Big Aldrin guy, great game.
TeamCaptain (01:34:11.466)
He plays exactly like that boss though. Exactly like that boss.
Coach Mills (01:34:11.529)
yeah you are? Yeah no I haven't played any of the Souls games at all. Not a single one of them.
IRunShibb (01:34:16.02)
dude, you guys are crazy,
Captain Coach (01:34:16.495)
Wow.
TeamCaptain (01:34:17.937)
You're missing out.
Coach Mills (01:34:19.507)
No, I like I like I said in the previous pods I only play like games I played as a kid or I play rivals. That's it. I play emulators or rivals. It's all I do. I like Pokemon sometimes. Yeah, but I typically like playing like emulators like PS2 emulators like I don't fucking know. NARTA Ultimate Ninja. That's a crazy throwback pull. But like stuff like that that I played when I was like 12 and 13, you know, that's good old days. But yeah, Pokemon too. Yeah, for sure.
IRunShibb (01:34:25.87)
Touche.
La Pokey? Are you like a Pokey guy like way back or nah?
IRunShibb (01:34:47.037)
I'll play anything, dude. All the new stuff, all the Souls likes, I love them all. I love challenges. Like Returnal's, Housemarque's new game comes out Tuesday. I don't know if you guys ever played Returnal. It's like a roguelike that's super hard. I'm playing that one. That should be fun. But yeah, dude, Bo, I just did an Eldring run before, like, or I guess in between rival seasons where I did Bo only. And that was crazy where you just jump Bo 24-7. It took forever, but yeah, Millennium took me like days. But yeah, no, dude, for the PvE stuff too, like I love this new PvE for the Wrecking Team captain. I love this one more.
Coach Mills (01:34:49.229)
yeah.
Captain Coach (01:35:03.675)
Bow.
Coach Mills (01:35:05.393)
That sounds, that's great, that sounds hard.
Captain Coach (01:35:06.714)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:35:11.045)
Ha ha ha.
IRunShibb (01:35:16.17)
What I would, what I think they need to do more in terms of changes, like I wish the heroes were different. They're only a couple of changes. Just kind of weird and squirrel girl. I've been playing her a ton because she's like the only build that you can go down both trees and they impact each other. And it has weird interactions, which I think more of the heroes need that. But to be honest guys, the PB mode sick, like the PBO mode is sick. Every other hero for the most part, you pick one side of the tree and you just fully like click on it. But it's fun for the building side that you can get really crazy with weird stuff on squirrels specifically if you mess with both trees. And that's fun. That's fun for me.
TeamCaptain (01:35:27.408)
Mm-hmm.
TeamCaptain (01:35:31.034)
Yeah, for sure.
Coach Mills (01:35:46.641)
i think i think it's gonna be a going to go captain
Captain Coach (01:35:46.885)
Yeah.
I'm not like a huge fan of it, but I think that's mostly just because I weren't really too appealed to like the heroes that were offered I think I'd probably like it more if that was You know like it bounce around Yeah, I got a problem guys. I got a problem
Coach Mills (01:36:01.805)
This man only wants to play Hulk like period it legit legit only wants to play Hulk ever No, when I when I do win captain coach if if they ban his hero, he just deflates bro He's like he's like having a good time. He's like, fuck I had to play rivals. I don't like rivals. I want to play Hulk
Captain Coach (01:36:08.995)
I got a problem, but I tried it!
Captain Coach (01:36:16.537)
Yeah. I'm not mad.
You know, it's funny, I've never been a one trick guy too in other games. I don't know if you guys are, when you play class-based games. But I've always always like a multi-classer. Like in league, I played a bunch of different heroes. But I don't know, man. I just found that hero. I just can't stop playing. Yeah, but I did a melee faith build. So was pretty basic. But I just did like buffs. then we'll talk about Elden Ring.
IRunShibb (01:36:30.286)
Mmm.
IRunShibb (01:36:37.41)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (01:36:41.719)
I respect that.
IRunShibb (01:36:50.616)
Yeah, no, I get that.
Captain Coach (01:36:51.473)
I was hooked on Elder Ring for like a couple weeks. But yeah, man. I should probably try some other souls legs, but.
IRunShibb (01:36:56.43)
Those games will get you, bro.
Coach Mills (01:36:59.059)
What's your favorite game of all time, Shib? You pick one.
IRunShibb (01:37:03.5)
Ooh, it's tough. like last of us one, dude. had my first ACL. Bro. I do guys have buddy, Bro. Bro picture a high school me. I tear my ACL. I'm hopped up on meds from surgery and I'm playing last of us one, dude. had like a religious experience when I was done with that game. I was like, bro, this was the best thing I have ever played in my life. ACL surgery, like my first ACL surgery, like I've had a bunch of surgeries.
Coach Mills (01:37:06.515)
I haven't played The Last of Us either. I watched the show. Does that count for anything?
Captain Coach (01:37:08.13)
dude, I heard that game is so good. I heard that game is so good, I haven't played it.
TeamCaptain (01:37:11.13)
It's really good.
Captain Coach (01:37:14.605)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:37:19.205)
Ooh, Halliburton.
Coach Mills (01:37:25.027)
Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Captain Coach (01:37:26.917)
Wait, sorry, why were you hopped up on meds? What happened?
Coach Mills (01:37:29.637)
ACO, yeah.
Captain Coach (01:37:31.845)
You did sports, you said?
IRunShibb (01:37:34.254)
Oh yeah, dude. I was, I golfed 18 before we did this podcast. Big, big sports guy, I always have been, but I've had five surgeries, shoulders and both ACLs. Like I was always a sports guy.
Captain Coach (01:37:37.88)
no shit.
Coach Mills (01:37:37.955)
Let's go, okay, let's fucking go.
Coach Mills (01:37:44.807)
Goddamn.
Captain Coach (01:37:45.711)
What's like your main sport? What's like your, what do you?
IRunShibb (01:37:49.062)
A baseball guy my whole life, my dad played like, yeah, well, not much anymore. So I played a lot of baseball. went to college, did it. My dad was a semi-pro baseball player. So was like always part of our family. And then, then soccer, because my buddies played soccer all the time. But my dad played for like the farm team for the Reds. So I guess Reds, but I stopped watching baseball once I stopped playing it because it just was like, it was like regretting, you know, not doing it. I also, I was always a gamer first. So I just was like, all right, I've had a billion surgeries. I'll just game forever. That's fine with me.
Captain Coach (01:37:50.715)
Baseball, me too bro.
Coach Mills (01:37:51.389)
Who's your baseball guy?
Coach Mills (01:37:59.542)
shit, okay. Let's go.
Captain Coach (01:38:09.073)
Mmm.
Coach Mills (01:38:17.427)
My main side hustle slash hobby is I buy and sell sports cards. like, like, Ohtani, his card market is just dumb. Like you buy an Ohtani card for $100 six months ago, it's worth like $800 now. It's just, it's just stupid. But yeah, that's, that's pretty much the extent I know about baseball is just the card market. But yeah, that's cool. That's cool. That's awesome. What about you, Team Captain? What's your favorite game of all time?
IRunShibb (01:38:22.413)
Nice dude.
TeamCaptain (01:38:40.987)
Team Fortress 2
IRunShibb (01:38:42.595)
Hmm.
Captain Coach (01:38:43.121)
That's a good pick.
Coach Mills (01:38:44.083)
Classic.
TeamCaptain (01:38:44.251)
is what started me on this hero shooter fiasco and then like I gatewayed into Overwatch
Coach Mills (01:38:47.023)
shit. But how old were you when that game came out? Like or when that game was being played? I was a I was a wee lad back in then. you were like a super wee lad. Yeah, you were little, little.
TeamCaptain (01:38:53.829)
God, I'm 22 so that would have been like... Yeah, I mean I didn't come into it when it came out, I came into it bit later. But yeah, that was like my first PC game because it was free to play on Steam. And then I got hooked.
IRunShibb (01:39:07.136)
Mmm, cod four was that for me? Yeah
Coach Mills (01:39:08.283)
I just remember like, yeah, yeah. Cause all my favorite Overwatch streamers like Seagull and Harblu and stuff, they came from Team Fortress as pros. So they just carried over their skill. Kind like a lot of rivals players, like pros are doing now, they carry over their skill from Overwatch. like skill just keeps going. It's like generations of skill that just keep moving and moving and moving. That's a cool pool. TF2, that's cool. That's awesome. When is TF3 coming out?
TeamCaptain (01:39:16.656)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (01:39:24.91)
Hmm.
IRunShibb (01:39:28.75)
You get a leg up on everybody.
Captain Coach (01:39:28.931)
Yeah, TF2 is like, that was one of the few games. damn. The Rivals Killer.
IRunShibb (01:39:35.086)
Mm-hmm
Coach Mills (01:39:35.207)
That'll be the next game that we play. That's the next. I'm not going to lie. I don't really think that there's going to be a hero, another hero shooter that could like take over like a true hero shooter. I just can't imagine one being made. It would have to be a crazy big IP coming into the space. And there's like, I just can't imagine. I can't imagine any of them.
TeamCaptain (01:39:35.577)
Never. Never.
Captain Coach (01:39:51.057)
DCLOS.
TeamCaptain (01:39:53.359)
I guess like deadlock if you count that, you know?
Coach Mills (01:39:55.653)
Yeah, but it's not really. I mean, it's more MOBA than Hero Shooter, to be honest with you. Yeah, but like S4...
IRunShibb (01:39:59.606)
It is, yeah. Good game, though.
TeamCaptain (01:39:59.94)
I agree.
Captain Coach (01:40:02.159)
Yeah, I remember getting a, I got TF2 during the, when they offered the orange box. If you guys remember that.
Coach Mills (01:40:07.899)
yeah, yeah yeah, I got it on my Xbox. Xbox 360. Orange box.
TeamCaptain (01:40:07.952)
Yeah, I remember that.
IRunShibb (01:40:08.684)
mmm my god dude
Captain Coach (01:40:10.489)
I got that for Portal because everybody was telling me how amazing Portal was. I like both those games lot. I found out about TF2 and like, Tim, I didn't even know what genre of game it was. It inspired Overwatch. TF2, those of don't know, Overwatch basically just ripped off that game. So if you like Overwatch, you like Rivals, you'll probably like TF2. You'll probably like it because it's definitely more old school.
Coach Mills (01:40:15.846)
You
IRunShibb (01:40:28.952)
True.
IRunShibb (01:40:32.321)
Yeah
Coach Mills (01:40:35.864)
yeah.
Captain Coach (01:40:39.867)
but I was way more willing to swap in TF2, for instance, than Rivals, because the heroes were all like, they're all fast and simple. It's a good ass game and they have the maps and stuff. Do you still play Team Cat then?
TeamCaptain (01:40:53.472)
Yeah, I played recently I was done so in Team Fortress 2 there's like rocket jumping which is like a mechanic where you basically shoot the rocket at your feet and then you can carry that momentum to like straight through there they have these rocket jump maps that you can do or basically the player base have set up like different courses that you can go through using the mechanic and There's like so many different things that you can do with it that like change the way that you play like
Captain Coach (01:41:00.153)
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (01:41:22.096)
Pogoing where you jump off the floor like a pogo stick and then you can do that when going up walls and then you can do a sink jumps where you basically shoot a rocket and I'll go at the same momentum as you and then you shoot another rocket and then you hit the ground and you get three rockets of jump and then you fly to this guy. It's so fun It's so simple but fun The loyal player base, yeah
Captain Coach (01:41:38.523)
haha
Coach Mills (01:41:39.571)
It's actually insane how much relevance that game has with no updates. It just has perpetual relevance. Yeah, very loyal. I also think the modding and the customizable options. I would love, I don't know if you all played the Overwatch workshop system where you could do an editor to the core gameplay. I would love something like that in Rivals. If people could just maybe take the PvE mode as it exists and then like...
IRunShibb (01:41:59.18)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:42:05.661)
you know, customize it themselves and maybe they give us some type of creator tools to just like, people would go nuts. They would do some crazy stuff. We can make our own maps. We could make our own. I mean, it would be so fun. It would be actually crazy.
Captain Coach (01:42:08.688)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (01:42:13.197)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:42:18.426)
Yeah, cause...
IRunShibb (01:42:18.51)
I bet they do that eventually. I have no doubt they'd do that, to be honest.
Coach Mills (01:42:20.947)
100%, yeah. I just remember Forge, in Halo. I just had so much fun with Forge, just making your own maps.
Captain Coach (01:42:22.414)
To me, the-
Captain Coach (01:42:26.769)
was just hoping the PV was going to be a little less similar to the zombies. I didn't realize it was just going to be kind of like zombies 2.0. I was hoping it'd be something more unique.
IRunShibb (01:42:33.902)
Mm.
Coach Mills (01:42:35.763)
Well, they're coming up with a bigger one, I think next month, I believe. Not the Loki one. I think they're coming up with another one that they announced that's like going to be a much bigger ones.
TeamCaptain (01:42:43.49)
The low key one is like in a week or so, I think it may be this week.
IRunShibb (01:42:47.222)
Yeah, soon.
Coach Mills (01:42:47.805)
Because my theory is that they just wanted to try the zombies thing and then it did so well that they're like, okay, let's actually make this real. And that's what this is. It's like the real zombies one. And then, you they'll come out with a real, you know, a real, real PVE. I mean, I'm just gonna, I think they're gonna eventually build out an entire story mode at some point, probably down the line.
Captain Coach (01:42:53.999)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (01:43:08.14)
cinematic PvE. Yeah, I have no doubt they would do that too. Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:43:12.343)
yeah, because I don't know if y'all saw that interview with like the head. It was like the head of Marvel that was also in collaboration with the games and they like, they want this game to eventually have like 200 characters and like a full fledged PvE, you know, section of the game. And it seems really optimistic for the future of Rivals. I am curious, you know, of course there's going to be some biases, but I'm curious about your internal take. How do y'all feel about the future of pro play for Rivals? You know, as far as how it contains to
IRunShibb (01:43:29.996)
yeah.
Coach Mills (01:43:41.027)
or compares to the ecosystem of other esports titles and you know as the games constantly evolving how do you feel about it Shib? I'll let you go first.
IRunShibb (01:43:48.334)
Yeah, I'm being incredibly biased, but I've also been, I've also been there at the finals and like seeing like the height that the game could drive. think, especially with like $3 million in the line for the pro scene this year, these guys are putting a lot on the line. I mean, the game is, and I think a lot of the pros will even admit that I'm sure Kevin Crotty would say this at the top level play rivals is a really good game. takes a lot of team coordination, whether that's just due to ultimate, also just a lot of just synergy and how you engage all the time. Oh, did say coach? I meant team captain. My fault, my fault.
Coach Mills (01:43:58.451)
It's huge price pool, yeah.
Captain Coach (01:44:11.953)
Why don't you say my name? Say his name. Say his name. Name Catherine. No, I'm just messing with you,
Coach Mills (01:44:14.087)
Yeah, yeah.
IRunShibb (01:44:18.222)
Sorry, a lot of coaches here. Yeah, right. No, no, it's disgusting. I mean, but I'm just saying is like even yeah, like what I'm saying is at the top level of the game, there's a lot of like team synergy. And I think even in tournaments, you're seeing a lot of that stuff. That's why they're drawing a lot of attention. Makes for a good pro scene. They really care about the game. The fact that they're super focused on adding new content, I think is a great sign for any pro scene. So again, I'm super biased.
Coach Mills (01:44:20.967)
Best best pro Hulk in the game. Captain kid. Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:44:27.779)
I'll take it.
IRunShibb (01:44:46.958)
loved the finals, thought it was awesome. The amount of money they're willing to put in and they're only going to make the production value better and better as this goes on. know people have like a short, like, you know, they're dropping for a stream and they judge it based on that, but it'll continuously get better. So yeah, man, I think it's as good as it could be.
Captain Coach (01:44:59.441)
Before we get to team captain, while we're on the subject, how do you feel it from like a viewer perspective compared to other eSports? I was kind of, we were kind of talking about this last time where I think maybe I didn't watch enough. The Overwatch scene, I feel like a big reason that that didn't really take off the way Blizzard maybe thought it would is because it's not as like easily digestible of a type of game to watch as maybe something like Counter-Strike.
IRunShibb (01:45:27.054)
Sure.
Captain Coach (01:45:29.177)
or like the top down view from League, is like clear everything. Counter-Strike is more like a based off of like, okay, it's like the peeking, the cover game, but like Rivals is just constant fighting. You gotta be exhausted when you're casting these games, right? And I see you guys going on these streams for hours, man. Like it's...
Coach Mills (01:45:42.707)
You can cast anything if you can cast rivals, I'll tell you that for sure.
Captain Coach (01:45:48.569)
It's so much, it never stops. I almost feel like it's like exhausting to watch sometimes. And I was wondering to hear your take as like a cast or is that like a valid criticism or am I just like, I'm just old or something.
IRunShibb (01:46:01.87)
Well, no, mean to each their own dude is what I put it like like if you're not, you know If you're not messing with it, that's totally fine I think like the thing about hero shooters as a whole is it's like it just appeases to the the ADHD Tick-tock era that's going on right now where there is a lot going on But yes, if you know, it's overwhelming, especially if you don't know the abilities or what's going on It's like what is happening on the screen, but I do think that it's such an action-packed game It does lead to a lot of hype especially in like if you could watch some of the final moments or you know
Captain Coach (01:46:14.214)
Hehe.
IRunShibb (01:46:30.914)
Game seven series, even though this preseason, if you watch the final game seven, like it's it's going all the way to the end in the Americas region. It's bringing a lot of hype and I think it's all like natural excitement. I think it's being perceived pretty well. But yeah, I still think no matter what, if you're, you know, if you're an outsider looking in who doesn't know the game, you're going to be like, this is an absolute mess because there's so much going on on the screen at all times. But it's kind of just depending on what you're into, I guess, you know.
Captain Coach (01:46:52.741)
Yeah, it is hype. The tournaments and stuff, they are pretty great. It does seem like there's stuff constantly happening. But I do feel like maybe sometimes stuff, I don't know, gets missed. It's almost like, I don't know. I'm kind of excited to see where it goes. I definitely think the alt charge thing is super good for the pro scene in particular. But yes, I didn't want to take too much. I was just curious, team captain, if you wanted to give your thoughts.
IRunShibb (01:47:11.0)
Sure.
TeamCaptain (01:47:19.332)
Yeah I'm optimistic for the future of the esport, I think that from a spectator perspective maybe there could be improvements to help people understand but I don't know, think that's just like, like League of Legends is so big that I couldn't understand a thing that was going on with that game so surely you can make it work for Overwatch arrivals. I feel like it's less of a visual
Coach Mills (01:47:19.507)
I would like.
TeamCaptain (01:47:47.579)
perspective thing and more of getting like people behind like an eSports for the game. You need to let it kind of organically develop. The reason why Counter-Strike and League of Legends are so big is because of how organically it developed over the course of so many years and has built up this like basically its own like economy and everything for everyone to be a part of. But yeah, I think that the future is looking pretty good. I think
One of the best things they've done for the Esports at least recently is the Esports tab, that was really nice. Predictions is really good.
IRunShibb (01:48:19.854)
Mm hmm. Awesome.
Coach Mills (01:48:20.305)
I was insane. Insane. I love my Deadpool. My Deadpool jersey is sick. They need to do more jerseys for more characters. It's so sick.
Captain Coach (01:48:20.529)
Mmm.
Captain Coach (01:48:24.624)
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (01:48:26.584)
Yeah, like I like the the story items that they're doing for the esports I like the predictions that they're doing for the esports because it gets people more incentive to watch is because they want to see if their predictions were true and then they've got like all the stuff to help you follow along with the series because for me even like being a part of it I was kind of confused I'm like pre-season I thought I was like competing for the full prize pool and it's not it's like a thing before you compete for that
IRunShibb (01:48:52.354)
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (01:48:55.928)
So I think that's good to be there to help people understand that also.
Coach Mills (01:49:00.115)
Cause I think my, go on, go on Wilsun.
IRunShibb (01:49:00.238)
sure. think the... No, you're good. Like the major thing that I think is important and why it's good about like this game and I kind of touched on it a bit, but just to like reiterate is the amount of updates I think is important. I think the reason a lot of these games fall to the wayside is like dev teams kind of or like the team at the top doesn't see the return. They don't, they just stop falling off on in on updates. They fall off on heroes and then that just tanks the scene. The fact that Rivals is committed to every month dropping a new hero, dropping patches and the fact that that's been built out for years is
really, really good for the potential of the Pro scene moving forward.
Captain Coach (01:49:33.103)
Yeah, that's an interesting take. mean, I'm not trying to be too doom and gloom on the pro scene. But I've actually heard the opposite argument from pro League of Legends teams back when I followed that scene, that they made updates to the game that were too drastic too soon. And these teams just felt like they were overworked to adapt and try to keep up with it. But I guess that's part of the cool part about it too, is the best teams are going to be the ones to just like.
Coach Mills (01:49:33.235)
Alright.
IRunShibb (01:49:58.188)
Versatile.
Captain Coach (01:49:59.013)
make do, yeah, like adapt and think of those new strategies. So I think if they keep the game fresh, that's really gonna be what draws me to the e-sport. Like if they keep making these crazy changes just to see like what teams abusing it, what teams not, like I almost think they should try to like break the game, but in like different ways. Like when we were talking like with the team ups, I think that's really where this game can shine is it's like the player synergies and like, okay, now they're gonna do the big cinematic move. And that, think that to me is what I wanna see personally.
TeamCaptain (01:50:27.344)
I mean I think that's what makes esports so hard to compete in, imagine you're a football player or a soccer player and yeah, and they just made it so everyone's 20 % slower, players can now equip guns and shoot each other, the goalkeeper is 80 % bigger, know, you would just be completely lost as soon as that happened and then everyone would be terrible. Exactly.
IRunShibb (01:50:35.268)
Change the rules
Coach Mills (01:50:36.275)
Hahaha
Captain Coach (01:50:36.635)
Yeah
Captain Coach (01:50:42.448)
You
IRunShibb (01:50:43.308)
Hahaha
Captain Coach (01:50:45.531)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:50:48.115)
You
Captain Coach (01:50:52.101)
Or if you're Tom Brady, make the balls later.
IRunShibb (01:50:54.486)
Hehehe
Coach Mills (01:50:55.178)
Yeah. Because it's hard. I'm going to be honest. It's really it's been hard for me. I should be someone that is really all about the pro scene because I really love high level play and I could make content on it really easily and do watch parties. But the last pro that I was really into was Overwatch, Overwatch League. I was super, super into it. I watched every game. I had teams. I bought merch like I was all about it. It was so fun to watch. And then that just
Captain Coach (01:50:56.465)
You like that one, Shib?
IRunShibb (01:50:57.486)
I like that.
Coach Mills (01:51:24.253)
you know, kind of fell apart. It kind of fell apart and it was mostly because they were trying to force it to not be this organic thing. And my, for me, it's like, I want this thing to be organic and they're doing it right. But the true test of whether or not it's an organically grown e-sports scene is if it's alive in three years. If it's alive in three years, then maybe I'll tune in and then I can be a loyal fan. But if I get invested again and something gets rug pulled from under me, it's, it's, it's just hard. You know, it's, it's hard to be that invested. Like imagine if you...
become a big basketball fan and then they just stop playing games and you're just like, what the fuck? like, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just like, it has to be worth my time. Cause I love that I have friends that they watch the league of legends, you know, big tournaments every year. They don't even play the game, but they love watching the pro. And I want to, I want to be like that with rivals. Like I want that to be the case, they got to prove it to me. They got to prove it to me. Yeah. You got to prove it to me. Shit. No, was kidding. But you know what I'm talking about? Like I hope they do.
IRunShibb (01:51:55.15)
Nils has got wounds dude, he's got wounds!
Captain Coach (01:51:57.809)
Well...
Captain Coach (01:52:14.703)
What?
IRunShibb (01:52:17.866)
No, no, I was gonna say give it a chance I was gonna say give it a chance but outside of that dude like the other thing that like that team cats was talking about is dude like if you if you like a player you can go watch their game that they just had in client and watch just their perspective and stuff like that that really elevates pro scene like I watched on the finals Pauly from the America's regions who came over actually from overseas is and dominating on cap and I'm like dude I'm bonds on cap. I like I need to see how he's It just his POV. could just jump on to watch the game Just watched what he did the entire time and
Captain Coach (01:52:18.129)
Hahaha
Coach Mills (01:52:41.159)
And you can watch directly his POV. didn't even, I didn't even tried to do that.
See that I'm down for, because I can really learn. I can learn. Because yeah, they would let me learn. That sounds great actually. 100%.
IRunShibb (01:52:48.942)
Yeah, and that made me better at the hero immediately.
Captain Coach (01:52:55.761)
Well that's after, right? If they had that like during the game and with the sound, like the live player games? you can do it. Okay. Okay, yeah, that's... I didn't even know that. Yeah, no, I've been in-
IRunShibb (01:52:59.957)
you can. It's like right at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:53:00.455)
No you can, yeah they did add it, I guess I didn't even know that. That's actually really cool. So I get to stalk Team Captain when he's playing. I get to bot review Team Captain live, yeah. Yeah.
TeamCaptain (01:53:02.16)
We can do this at same time,
TeamCaptain (01:53:09.552)
You can, yeah.
IRunShibb (01:53:09.932)
Yeah, you can. I just got off a 10-hour bench. I know everything about him.
Captain Coach (01:53:11.249)
I already do that. I'm just kidding.
Captain Coach (01:53:16.336)
Hahaha
Coach Mills (01:53:16.435)
But yeah, okay, mean, those types of stuff actually would make me more interested. you can combine the educational elements of it too, I think that's really cool. It also connects the average ranked player to the pro scene as well, when there's really close intermingling there, that you get to learn things, you get to apply them immediately. I think that's really cool. I know I've done content about that before that has done well, trying to connect the two, so I can see that.
IRunShibb (01:53:26.796)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (01:53:39.139)
Mm-hmm.
IRunShibb (01:53:44.43)
Yeah, I think it's free good content right now, to be honest, like watching somebody, how they play White Fox properly, like engage in timing and when they're standing there with their cap like those like how to play the hero properly. You actually get to see it in the pro play and then see success with it, which you don't always get to have an example of from ladder on videos.
Captain Coach (01:53:44.443)
But I, like...
Captain Coach (01:54:01.169)
There's been like no real dominant team yet too, right? Like it's been pretty like out, like there's been a lot of like ups and downs like from people, right? Like.
IRunShibb (01:54:08.718)
That's why it's been sick, yeah.
Coach Mills (01:54:08.979)
Because did that side base team lost right? It was an upset. It was an upset.
TeamCaptain (01:54:12.74)
Yeah, VP lost. But I think VP had a really bad meta read from what I saw. Compared to other teams at least, they were kind of behind on the meta. Which I'm sure will change a lot.
Coach Mills (01:54:16.967)
That's crazy. That's actually crazy.
Captain Coach (01:54:17.797)
Well, I mean...
IRunShibb (01:54:22.414)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (01:54:26.717)
Guess that's part of the skill like we were talking about, adapting and stuff. It's not like Xyp9 just became worse or the team became worse out of nowhere.
Captain Coach (01:54:29.211)
When you talk about attachment, you know, maybe.
TeamCaptain (01:54:32.844)
Of course not, I don't think they're worse individually, think that the meta just wasn't in their strong suit and they couldn't adapt fast enough with other teams that were winning. I think Na'Vi right now are so dominant because it's such a dive heavy meta and these are the guys that basically invented that you know. So they're going to go insane, at least if the meta stays like this.
IRunShibb (01:54:50.51)
Mmm.
Trust me, big brain.
IRunShibb (01:54:59.086)
for sure.
Coach Mills (01:54:59.247)
Well, completely different kind of question. Shib, I'm curious how you became a caster, because you said that you're kind of new to this casting thing, but you seem like a veteran. You're doing really well. Yeah. How'd this happen?
IRunShibb (01:55:08.888)
Thanks, dude. Yeah, I appreciate that, dude. Like, honestly, I have no idea. So I, to be real with you guys, how this kind of worked out for me, and I don't know if this is how it ended up working or really what the story is, but I was watching Overwatch World Cup when I was just starting streaming full time. I was an engineer. I went to college for engineering, all that stuff. And COVID hit, you know, had like the, you know, whatever they called, not layoffs, like furloughs where you're off for multiple weeks. Really started sending content streaming.
Captain Coach (01:55:12.465)
Yeah, I had no idea you were-
Coach Mills (01:55:14.735)
Hahaha.
IRunShibb (01:55:37.742)
During the World Cup, was drunk, drink, shoutcasting Overwatch World Cup for viewers just to try to have a different fun perspective of a pro scene at that point. So was just slamming beers and just talking over the games and made videos on it that did pretty well. Maybe that's how they saw it. And then outside of that, they reached out to me for the alpha for this game. I was supposed to be on European PC coverage. I was going to my buddy's engagement. I was the only one going and I was setting him up on the engagement. I can't.
Miss that that feels horrible. My best buddy my best man. And so I was like, I do? Na instead and they're like sure take console the stream had like three people So I was like no one that saw me, know what mean? So like I don't know and then next thing I know they brought me back for the America's PC for the beta tournament And then it just kept going from there. She's got like really lucky
Coach Mills (01:56:14.565)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (01:56:15.81)
haha
Captain Coach (01:56:22.681)
You know, are you?
Coach Mills (01:56:22.739)
That's fucking awesome. Hey, mean, preparation, know, like preparation meets opportunity, right? Like you were, you were trying for things. You were, you had the skills, you were there, you showed up. Like it's not just luck, you know? Like there's a lot of people that would be presented with that opportunity and it wouldn't turn into anything. So that's awesome.
IRunShibb (01:56:39.298)
Yeah, man, was a lot of kind of a combine of a bunch of stuff for sure.
Captain Coach (01:56:39.332)
I mean, they...
Captain Coach (01:56:43.717)
they were looking at your videos. Technically, you did a drunk audition. No, how much do you think you're inspired? I have a little bit of a casting background, definitely amateur-ish. I kind of did it for my own viewer tournaments. I casted a couple of League of Legends tournaments, more as comedic style type casting. But how much of your...
Coach Mills (01:56:48.623)
Let's go!
IRunShibb (01:56:48.635)
Yeah
Coach Mills (01:56:52.019)
That's actually awesome.
IRunShibb (01:57:05.282)
Mm.
Captain Coach (01:57:10.267)
Do you try to go for like a sound? Cause I feel like your voice in particular out of all the streams that I've watched for pro is like so, it just jumps out. Like it's so much, it's so noticeable. And I was wondering if that's just like your natural voice or do you like kind of practice? you like take inspiration from sports? I know you said you were a big sports guy or does it just kind of like, you're just, you know.
IRunShibb (01:57:29.774)
Maybe, I don't know dude. For me when I'm just getting hyped up, that's just kind of how I talk. I think maybe it's deep down, it's driven from a bunch of stuff I've heard probably over life, but to be real, I wouldn't accidentally slip up and have a different voice. You know what I mean? I just kind of do that. But no, but yeah. And also I just realized I was doing lot of, you guys know Marbles on stream? Anyone ever done that?
Coach Mills (01:57:44.583)
That's awesome. That's awesome.
Captain Coach (01:57:44.771)
Yeah. Yeah. You sound pretty similar. But
Coach Mills (01:57:56.935)
Marbles, yeah, of course, of course, yeah.
Captain Coach (01:57:57.007)
Yeah! Love my wrist.
IRunShibb (01:57:58.43)
I was doing a lot of casting like it was a horse race because I'm near a horse. I was doing a lot of that for my chat, betting channel points, like running like a gambling bet channel points ring, shout casting over that like it was a horse race. that also probably helped me a ton with the practice.
Coach Mills (01:58:07.739)
Let's go. Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:58:12.317)
Chat, you hear that? If you wanna get your dream job, you need to be drunk, you need to be betting, gambling, and you know, just combine them all together and your dreams will come true. Let's fucking go. That's awesome. That's the American dream right there, or the internet dream, I guess. That's sick.
IRunShibb (01:58:26.798)
Yeah, very lucky, dude.
Captain Coach (01:58:27.473)
I know as a kid growing up watching pro sports, you always have a favorite announcer. I really liked Gary Thorne, if you know who he is. I don't know if
IRunShibb (01:58:34.818)
Gary Thorne. I'd have to hear him. I'd have to hear him.
Captain Coach (01:58:37.649)
I just, yeah, I mean, he was a local guy, but I think he does like the NHL stuff now. I don't know if he's still cast, but I don't know. just, I was wondering if you had someone like that. I guess is kind of why I was asking.
IRunShibb (01:58:39.864)
Okay.
IRunShibb (01:58:48.494)
I don't know, because now that I'm like old, just golf all the time. like, hear a golfing, you know, golf is my sport. So I hear golfing, I was just like, I don't want to be like them at all. You know what mean? So, I don't really know that I have like a favorite, but I used to watch a ton of sports. I'm assuming back then I did, you know, the easy answers are like Madden, right? Like stuff like that, but I'm not sure, dude.
Captain Coach (01:58:53.818)
Right.
Haha
Captain Coach (01:59:04.357)
Sure. Yeah. OK.
Coach Mills (01:59:07.859)
It's very it's very funny to me because at least because I watch a lot of basketball and you get there's announcers that are like local local Yeah, bang, you know, but they're local to their teams and some of them are like clearly like crazy biased for their team and it's interesting how like an eSports most of time that's not true like it's it's a it's a pretty neutral caster that's trying to like, know kind of round the edges but it is it is kind of funny when there's like a cast of this like
Captain Coach (01:59:15.825)
Dang!
IRunShibb (01:59:23.758)
Hmm
IRunShibb (01:59:28.952)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:59:33.491)
Like, oh that was, oh that's an X split, oh they're playing this, like imagine if you were biased for like 100 of these, you're like, oh the enemy team's playing this meta again? Wow, what a crutch, you know? Like, that'd be actually really funny.
IRunShibb (01:59:33.75)
Superbias.
IRunShibb (01:59:41.774)
Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah Not truthfully I I can speak to for like most cats I think at least everybody on this team like first we all just genuinely play the shit out of the game didn't just like love the game which I think is good but I we all just want game sevens bro like I just wanted to go deep and be just like Hype because bro, I like the game so much that I think people think I like fake excitement dude I'm fucking like I'm up on my screen like the reason I sound so amped is cuz I'm like losing my shit watching this like I'm actually having a ton of fun and
Coach Mills (01:59:59.805)
Yep.
Coach Mills (02:00:06.286)
Hey
Captain Coach (02:00:06.382)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (02:00:11.47)
That's why I love the job. truly just have so much fun doing it.
Captain Coach (02:00:14.033)
Ken confirmed before we flipped on the podcast, he had the same levels of energy coming in here. Talking about one to drink a beer. Yeah, go for it, bro.
Coach Mills (02:00:18.067)
Yeah. Well, kind of tuning things down, this is a question that everyone likes us to ask and I'm curious, team captain, I want to know what kind of tank do you want to see next in Rivals? Who would it be and what kind of tank? Maybe you could talk about other tanks and other heroes like TF2 or Overwatch, or you could just talk about, if you could just imagine a tank, what would that look like for you?
IRunShibb (02:00:18.602)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (02:00:37.751)
in
TeamCaptain (02:00:46.383)
just give me ghost riders a tank i don't care what it does just give me that that i'll one trick him you give me give me like i've said roadhog hook i can't lie
Coach Mills (02:00:50.483)
What are you? Yeah. Yeah. Eye of Penance. Eye of Penance CC. Is it Penance Stair? Penance Stair CC. They just can't move for like 12 seconds.
IRunShibb (02:00:52.824)
HOOK
TeamCaptain (02:01:00.505)
pens there, yeah.
Yeah but they need to, this is a must, they need to hire a necklace cage to voice act on. And then, that's all they need to do.
Coach Mills (02:01:10.007)
let's go. I actually fucking love that movie, by the way. Ghost Rider with Nicolas Cage. I fucking love that movie. That's like one of my guilty pr- You gotta watch that movie. A little bit drunk. Actually a lot drunk. It's great. It's just one of those movies that's- No, it's actually a great- It's a great fucking movie. I like it a lot. It's one of those like- I don't know. There was like the time frame of like all the Blade movies, Hellboy. Like that time frame of movies were just like really good in like their own kind of way.
Captain Coach (02:01:10.682)
man.
Captain Coach (02:01:17.243)
I've never seen it.
Captain Coach (02:01:22.341)
do it right after this. Don't tempt me with a good time.
IRunShibb (02:01:23.874)
Hahaha
Captain Coach (02:01:34.523)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:01:38.791)
That'd be sick, okay. Would he be like, would he ride on the bike? Like would he get to ride around on the bike or?
TeamCaptain (02:01:43.791)
I would say the bike would be the mobility aspect, I think you'd be able to summon it for a bit. I would say the alt would be the penance there, it'd probably be like a mass like, I don't know how you could do it, maybe you could, yeah like I was thinking like Medusa stun, you could do some, I'm gonna let the devs handle that one cause I think that they could do a better job of it cause you need to try and make it unique from the other like current stuns.
Coach Mills (02:01:47.552)
okay.
IRunShibb (02:01:57.366)
Medusa-stan?
IRunShibb (02:02:05.186)
Yeah
Coach Mills (02:02:06.323)
What would be-
It would be really cool if there was some type of mechanic that you did more damage based on how many kills someone got. it's like a cry. Right, exactly. If they've dropped like 20 kills and they're their ace, you could really fuck them up with whatever ulcer or whatever ability would be really cool. Yeah, exactly. A carry shutdown. Okay, okay.
IRunShibb (02:02:11.79)
Mmm.
TeamCaptain (02:02:16.675)
That's what I was thinking because it's like how evil they are right? So it'd be like how many kills they have they got more damage yeah like that.
IRunShibb (02:02:20.334)
Mmm.
Captain Coach (02:02:21.416)
dude.
TeamCaptain (02:02:27.467)
yeah i mean you just saw out there carry like everything just the fuck them
Captain Coach (02:02:28.273)
That's cool.
IRunShibb (02:02:30.968)
Yeah, yeah,
Captain Coach (02:02:31.857)
I'm reading he can generate flames that burn souls. I guess it wouldn't work on Jeff players then.
Coach Mills (02:02:39.731)
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay, what about you, Shiv? What kind of character or who? From a comic or?
TeamCaptain (02:02:40.463)
the
IRunShibb (02:02:41.439)
Captain Coach (02:02:43.269)
Fired.
TeamCaptain (02:02:43.661)
Sadly not.
IRunShibb (02:02:45.336)
But...
Dude, I've thought about this for so many, I'm a big Marvel guy too, like I've always have been since I was a kid. But for me, and this is, I'm curious, because you know, this is controversial because I think people want Thanos with the glove. I say give Thanos his glaive. He can pin people to walls with it if it's a skillshot, which you know, is much like Orisa, which obviously people aren't gonna be too a fan of. I was an Overwatch guy as well as all of you guys, was a big Vanguard man, played a lot of Orisa. I think the pin to a wall is great. I think the spin, much like Orisa is great.
Coach Mills (02:02:54.234)
Okay.
Coach Mills (02:03:07.229)
Hell yeah.
I... Yeah.
IRunShibb (02:03:17.358)
I think he could have some sort of jump mechanic where he does slam it down. And then I don't know what we'd do for the ultimate. I think the glove idea is horrendous personally, but what he got?
Coach Mills (02:03:22.876)
I got
I was just saying I have Arisa PTSD so I fucking hate that here but that was in 5v5 I think. When I played, every time I dropped 20 kills as Doomfist they're swapping to Arisa and I don't get to play the game but that's not really true in Rivals. It wouldn't be true in Rivals.
IRunShibb (02:03:28.597)
Tisha.
IRunShibb (02:03:36.398)
Mmm.
IRunShibb (02:03:40.268)
Yeah, like you could make him, you could make him melee, you could give him some sort of weird range thing. I wouldn't care either way, but I do think like the pin's a good idea, the spin's a good idea, they're all implemented and it's shown to have success in other hero shooters, so it's totally fine. I think the snap idea of randomized should never be in the game, so I really... Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:03:53.947)
Yeah,
Captain Coach (02:03:56.902)
I think because he's such an OP character. I feel like every podcast I'm thinking of like a new idea for what I want to see for Thanos. By the way, Shiv, I knew I liked you. That's like always my pick. And I always say not the glove form, the glaive form.
IRunShibb (02:04:06.99)
Hell yeah, dude!
Coach Mills (02:04:09.587)
What if you could, what if your ultimate, I want a module, module ultimate where you could pick different, what if you could pick from the rings and do something different and like you had five different versions of the ultimate that could do like, you know, like, yeah, maybe they're not all super busted, but like you get to choose, you know, and they're, but they're, it's like more powerful utility, right? And it's, but it's just part of his ultimate, would be kind of cool.
IRunShibb (02:04:17.601)
Okay.
One of the stones? Yeah.
IRunShibb (02:04:25.016)
That'd be sick.
IRunShibb (02:04:28.664)
Yeah, utility and much like I like Fox or cat.
Captain Coach (02:04:34.927)
I think Thanos with different stances, different weapon forms would be cool. Maybe based off of maybe where his alt charge is, gets to do, okay, he starts out with his fist. He's stronger than everybody for the most part, right? So it's like, how do we make it? Well, he's just effing around and he's just beating it with, okay, he's like, no, I'm gonna try now. And he pulls out the glaive and then, you can swap between forms based on like.
IRunShibb (02:04:40.888)
That's cool.
IRunShibb (02:04:49.676)
Yeah, Titan.
Captain Coach (02:05:00.549)
you how strong you are and like, I feel like the blade like an obvious ability would be the spin where he deflects range. You could just like hold like that'd be so sick. You know? Yeah.
IRunShibb (02:05:05.292)
Yeah. Agreed. Yeah, I think that's a must, dude. And Nightcrawler. I want to see Nightcrawler as well, but I just like the... Yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (02:05:08.722)
I um, oh yeah, yeah, that would be so sick. It's still, it's still the best, probably best comic book scene ever is that X-Men 2 that first scene, the White House scene with Nightcrawler is like one of the top five. I like the idea of making Bishop very Zarya-esque. Um,
Captain Coach (02:05:12.357)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (02:05:17.742)
Mmm.
For sure.
Coach Mills (02:05:26.579)
because Bishop's all about absorbing energy and using energy and it'd be cool to be able to absorb a certain amount of damage, turn it into energy and then use it. Maybe not a beam, but maybe like a projectile type explosion, like you have a primary beam and then like a projectile. I think that'd be pretty cool as a concept for Bishop. You could turn them into a really cool tank. Other than that, I do want a Reinhardt type tank, like a melee shield tank. I really want to see that. That's a front lighter.
IRunShibb (02:05:41.986)
Mmm.
IRunShibb (02:05:46.466)
can see that too.
TeamCaptain (02:05:51.511)
Who would that be though? I've tried to think of this before, personally.
Coach Mills (02:05:56.335)
It could be like Sandman, maybe, maybe.
Captain Coach (02:05:56.635)
Melee Shield Tank.
IRunShibb (02:05:58.786)
Yeah, that's not a bad option.
Captain Coach (02:06:01.807)
He's ranged though, feel like you could like do sand from, why not just Thanos would be a melee shield tank with the swordsman.
IRunShibb (02:06:07.416)
Could be.
Coach Mills (02:06:07.627)
What's the yeah, I guess so. Yeah, you could I feel like there's a lot of abilities you would want to tack on to him that are not melee though
Captain Coach (02:06:15.555)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (02:06:16.344)
You could do like Taskmaster too, with the shield, and stand switching and all that kind of stuff, Taskmaster does have a bow, but it's also sword and shield, and could be just like an expanded shield like they do with lot of the heroes.
Coach Mills (02:06:20.786)
Ooh, okay.
Coach Mills (02:06:26.993)
Right. Yeah, yeah. And Reinhardt did have that little fire strike projectile thing that they did give him. So it's it doesn't have to be like a pure melee, but I do. I love what Reinhardt did for Overwatch and just the meta because he's just such a strong bra option for lower ranked players. And he had high skill, you know, playing him in the higher rank. I think he'd be a healthy addition, something like that. I don't really know what the hero would be, though, but I do think it'd be a healthy addition.
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (02:06:53.423)
feel like Doctor Strange is like so similar to Reinhardt apart from like the fact that he doesn't have a hammer that like he kind of fills the archetype because he has, he does, he does, because he has, okay okay, pin's not there I'll give you that okay, the pin's not there but you have flight, okay but here's the other parts right, you can use shield to cut heals and cut LoS from the enemy Reinhardt, you can
IRunShibb (02:06:57.358)
True.
Coach Mills (02:06:59.993)
the yeah well but he he doesn't really though like he doesn't pin he doesn't he doesn't pin he doesn't and that's a big part of ryan that's the only way you played him in gm plus is with this pin
IRunShibb (02:07:07.703)
He plays better like Melee.
TeamCaptain (02:07:23.083)
use your alts so the alt is like based on like who can block who's alt with the stun and then I guess that's it
Coach Mills (02:07:30.867)
I guess the thing is, Ryne was the character that he could be a catalyst for your team to create a great pressure. Zarya, Ryne-Zarya was like the iconic duo where it's like your Ryne gets to go in, create pressure, generate ult charge, generate charge for your Zarya. Like, I love that interaction. I think that's one of the best interactions that Overwatch did flat out. And I don't think that that would be impossible for us to create. I don't really like...
IRunShibb (02:07:31.64)
Well, he plays better in Melee too. I think he's kind of Melee hero to be honest.
TeamCaptain (02:07:35.245)
Yeah, he's very bro.
Captain Coach (02:07:35.599)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:07:58.695)
Like, you don't really want it to be Magneto. I think Magneto is just a boring enabler, because he just doesn't really get to leverage the fact that he builds charge. Like, he's not kind of the same way. I don't know, maybe I just want to create like a Rhyne Zarya, Bishop, fucking Doctor Doom, you know? I don't know, I don't know. Maybe I'm just, yeah.
IRunShibb (02:08:03.672)
You
IRunShibb (02:08:08.568)
Sure.
But but I think the overwatch folks hates are you know, they're like tired of it. So that's the thing is you're just like nostalgia Yeah, it's true true true true
Coach Mills (02:08:17.425)
Well, that's because they're playing 5v5, it's not the same thing. It's like, yeah, yeah. It's... Rhinzara is the most pure form of a hero shooter to ever exist. I'm biased, but... They ruined it, they deleted it, but it was really fun while it lasted. Maybe I'm just, once again, I'm just a permanently nostalgic person. Like, I just want, I'm nostalgic person. I just want everything that used to be... Fuck everything that exists. I just want all the old stuff back, so...
TeamCaptain (02:08:18.553)
That is a- Yeah, 5v5, yeah. Yeah. I mean, a character that can just bubble themselves twice. Yeah.
Captain Coach (02:08:18.672)
IRunShibb (02:08:26.637)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (02:08:44.428)
member berries
Coach Mills (02:08:45.381)
Yeah, they took that from me too, just like their esport.
TeamCaptain (02:08:46.595)
That's what made 5v5 so flawed, was like all the off tanks kinda lost their identity, like imagine we went 5v5 and then you got Penny Parker, like Venom, all these characters, what did they do?
IRunShibb (02:08:54.062)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (02:08:59.027)
Like, what would you have to do to vet? What would, the true problem is what would you have to do to Penny? How would you have to buffer to make it so she could solo tank?
TeamCaptain (02:09:07.831)
I'd give her two nests. I don't know. That's the only thing you could really do. That's the Overwatch solution, which is just double everything they already have. Like Venom would have two web swings, you know, for example.
Coach Mills (02:09:09.927)
Double her HP, give her a shield, like that's basically what-
Yeah, and you just have this one character, yeah. Yeah, and double the shield generation and add a taunt on his shield. it's just not. It doesn't make sense. I think that's the biggest flaw in the game. And I could go on and on about it forever. I mean, I'm still in love with 2016 through 2019 Overwatch. you can play it, but it's not the main mode. It's not the main primary competitive mode. It's not the mode that the pros play. It's not the mode that the esports about. It's just not.
IRunShibb (02:09:19.286)
God. my God.
IRunShibb (02:09:29.646)
And that's what.
TeamCaptain (02:09:44.631)
It's not bounds for either.
Coach Mills (02:09:46.215)
Yeah, it's just, 6v6 is the way and that's why Rivals is the way for now, forever.
Captain Coach (02:09:52.437)
You know, it's funny too, like we talk about growing an esport organically, naturally, like had they kind of just let the popular parts of their game kind of flourish and like kind of let the community, you know, discuss like the direction of what they want the game. Because I think that's something Blizzard has been notoriously kind of bad at over the years is really listening to community feedback. Whereas I feel like, yeah, mean, I've been playing Blizzard games for 20 years, so I know all about that. So I mean, like you talk about it to kind of like bring it back to the...
IRunShibb (02:10:08.771)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (02:10:11.411)
that so bad, I think,
Coach Mills (02:10:16.339)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (02:10:21.583)
Like, I feel like that is what the number one thing as like an e-sport you need to let happen is for like the game to kind of go in a direction the players want, which is why these types of conversations are so important.
IRunShibb (02:10:29.71)
Mmm.
Coach Mills (02:10:32.627)
Cause the thing is like when Blizzard forced the pro scene into this franchise model, it actually did work. That's not what killed the esport. What killed the esport is their inability to get rid of goats. For those of you that either were part of it or didn't see it, we were in a triple tank, triple support meta for one year and seven months of the same fucking meta being the most powerful thing in ranked and pro play. And it never changed. It was the same thing.
IRunShibb (02:10:43.192)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (02:11:00.123)
It would be like getting your Psylocke player playing a support because that's the only thing that they could play. And that was the meta. That was just the meta. People lost interest. We went from a Tracer, Widow, Dynamic, Hyper Action meta to this fucking Ultra Sustained, MOBA-like meta. And we just never moved from it. Like, can you imagine if we stayed in the same meta in Rivals the entire time the game's been out? That's how, I mean, that's longer than a year and seven months. Like legitimately, we can't do that. Like we could not do that. Imagine if, you know, I...
IRunShibb (02:11:19.426)
I'm
IRunShibb (02:11:27.758)
People are spoiled with Rivals because they don't understand. I always say the game doesn't need to be perfectly balanced. It just needs to be ever-changing. It just needs to be having different stuff happen. And that's what Rivals does well. We all stick on a meta and we're so annoyed with it. then realistically, yeah, they could be there for two half-seasons, but guys, that's a month or two, maybe two and a half, and then something weird is going to come in and least shake it up a little bit. Yes, there's some consistencies, but like you're saying, buddy, let's get back into what we remember from Overwatch. We were in this stuff for years at a time before stuff would change.
We're spoiled with this month or two. And you know, it is small changes that could change the meta, but I still think like that's a pretty fast turnaround for gaming.
Coach Mills (02:12:03.079)
Yeah, I'm not gonna lie since...
TeamCaptain (02:12:03.415)
I do think that even I overcompose. I think that's mostly to do with the fact that I just play the game too much. More than the average person would play a game. I think that all the people that are getting too annoyed should just put the game down, take a break. The only reason why I'm doing it is because it's my job.
Coach Mills (02:12:10.747)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (02:12:10.807)
Yeah, me too, dude.
IRunShibb (02:12:20.056)
Take a break, dude.
Coach Mills (02:12:20.733)
Put the game down. Yeah, because there are some people that are quitting. I've seen some people that are quitting, or so to speak, taking a long break. You're just burnt out. You play the game fucking 12 hours a day, you're gonna get burnt out. But I'm not gonna lie, since season seven, like, I know I have all these little minor gripes and complaints. I've been enjoying the game more than ever, ever since that old change. the more bans definitely helped. I think the game has been a very, very fun game.
IRunShibb (02:12:25.036)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (02:12:27.44)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (02:12:31.182)
100%.
Coach Mills (02:12:46.119)
I've been having more fun with this game than I have in seasons and I haven't actually been having a bad time with the game. I think the game's in a good spot. I'm actually enjoying the game. I'm excited for the future of the game. I think they're kind of in a stride with new heroes. I know that they're probably a little bit too broken, right? But I do like their complexity. Like I like the complexity of Black Cat. I like more complex characters like Gambit even maybe, you the power is too strong, but I like complexity. I like high skill and so far they've done that. They've done the complexity and high skill.
Captain Coach (02:13:07.727)
Yeah, I agree.
IRunShibb (02:13:08.6)
Mm-hmm.
IRunShibb (02:13:12.664)
Me too.
TeamCaptain (02:13:15.31)
I like what they're doing with making these characters that would have boring kits on paper and making them more than that. Daredevil very street level character, all he does is he's blind and he can do martial arts but somehow they made him super super interesting. Black Cat, just a thief. Okay so how do we factor that? She has a bunch of artifacts that she stole that she can use in battle, I think that's cool.
IRunShibb (02:13:28.984)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (02:13:33.592)
True, dude.
IRunShibb (02:13:39.285)
so sick. I'm with you.
Coach Mills (02:13:41.617)
Definitely and then of course what they did with Deadpool is just amazing like legitimately. It's awesome three different roles and I mean, I'm super biased. I fucking love that character. I really love the character I also like that at least the tank and this the DPS one is viable support is close probably it could be viable sometimes but Yeah, yeah Maybe with the coordination they have but you know most the time I honestly think that it's mostly to enable Jeff team up, but maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong
Captain Coach (02:13:58.256)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (02:13:59.288)
Some pros think it's really good. I'm still trying to figure that out, but like.
IRunShibb (02:14:05.58)
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (02:14:11.368)
is because like how it's being played is if you force a brawl fight you'll always just outsustain them and kill them because all the supporters that play in that comp what they're playing up with is a support pool, an Invis and a Jeth can all deal damage in a brawl fight and they can all heal at the same time that they're doing damage so they're just going to outsustain and out kill them if they force that brawl fight and then on top of that the heal
IRunShibb (02:14:28.227)
Mm.
Coach Mills (02:14:35.379)
That's what I'll...
TeamCaptain (02:14:37.72)
pulls AoE circle gives 20 % damage boost to his allies.
IRunShibb (02:14:43.559)
dude, I forgot. didn't. I mean, I'm sure I did at one point.
Coach Mills (02:14:43.667)
I think I I think that's what coach cover was saying that you play him like he's brig He kind of plays similar to brig in the slot of a composition gotcha interesting Which I Which I don't like I don't like the sound of that, but I once again another character of PTSD about brig fucking fucking
TeamCaptain (02:14:45.326)
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (02:14:50.432)
Yes, you do. He plays exactly like Brake. Yep, you're right.
IRunShibb (02:14:54.666)
interesting i mean i'm sure i knew that when i first was discussing the character but that's huge
IRunShibb (02:15:02.882)
Mm-hmm
TeamCaptain (02:15:03.272)
AOE healing is scary on its own, that's the reason why goats became a thing was because AOE healing was so strong.
Captain Coach (02:15:03.345)
Is that?
Coach Mills (02:15:11.059)
Yeah, cuz yeah if I think about the most I still think that Brig is actually strong Brig on release is actually stronger than else on release This might be a hot take. I don't know how close I Think I think Brig is probably the most strong like the most powerful release hero that has ever been released across hero shooters Most likely because Brig on release was dumb. She could legit one-shot like like captain coach. Can you imagine a support? That could one-shot a DPS
IRunShibb (02:15:20.94)
No, I think a lot of people agree with that.
TeamCaptain (02:15:30.136)
Yeah, I say so.
Coach Mills (02:15:39.123)
Instantly with like no skill like I don't know I don't even know how to describe it It's just like if you could one-shot the most powerful DPS in the game instantly with no skill if they played anywhere near you I don't I don't really know it was insane. It was a very dumb side like part of the game
Captain Coach (02:15:51.643)
then
TeamCaptain (02:15:53.07)
Do remember the tech where you could like throw yourself across the map?
Coach Mills (02:15:56.503)
Yeah, yeah, you could super launch. Yeah, yeah, could also it was just so dumb when you could bash through Rein shields and then your Rein could shatter the other Rein because you you just I mean the character was just stupid. I don't even I guess I guess what you fly too close to the Sun eventually. Yeah, also like ironclad Bastion. I forgot about ironclad Bastion That's a completely I'm getting off topic, but there was a there was like a small window It was one week where Bastion was the meta in overwatch in pro play and in ranked play because the
IRunShibb (02:15:57.614)
Shield bash.
TeamCaptain (02:15:58.73)
Yeah, that was so dumb.
TeamCaptain (02:16:05.024)
Yeah, you get free shout-out off. Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:16:26.311)
the character could just literally not die. we've never, we have never run into that level of, you know, I feel like people kind of forget that it's very easy to run into problems when you don't test everything. Like it's, easy to run into characters that are overtuned and overbalanced. I'm just happy with the hot fixes, the fast changes. I'm happy that we address these things quickly rather than letting them sit for a year and seven months. So yeah. But, but yeah, I mean, is there any other closing thoughts that y'all want to have any other?
Captain Coach (02:16:42.873)
The hotfixes have been nice. They've been real nice.
IRunShibb (02:16:49.987)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:16:55.987)
takes, hot takes, random things you wanna interject before we kind of wrap things up.
IRunShibb (02:17:04.268)
Hmm
Captain Coach (02:17:04.303)
Nerf and viz.
Coach Mills (02:17:05.523)
I'm serious about a nerf and viz shirt. So, Captain goes, I've been trying to make merch for a while, but you can't put any characters likeness because Mickey Mouse will sue the hell out of you. So we need to find.
TeamCaptain (02:17:06.925)
Nerf inverse
IRunShibb (02:17:07.15)
Hot takes.
Captain Coach (02:17:16.305)
I'm sorry, just find another blonde picture of a blonde woman. they're all, they all look, all the supports look the same. Sorry. I can't tell them apart in game. So I'm just stalling for time. Do you guys think of something yet?
Coach Mills (02:17:24.357)
Okay. Okay. Alright,
Hahahaha
IRunShibb (02:17:31.95)
Hot take stuff. No, I mean, I just I liked I like the recent recent changes where they're being more aggro with the nerfs and buffs I want to see more of that That's my biggest thing that I think if they keep doing that and they just keep it consistent on like it might tank a character You're gonna get some heat. That's fine But I also in a similar vein of you know You guys saying 5v5 for overwatch kind of mess with the flow of how every character works I truly do believe if we added the role queue that exact same situation would happen for like 70 % of the roster So I think that's what some people need to keep that in mind
Coach Mills (02:17:58.215)
I can see that.
Coach Mills (02:18:02.413)
I'll give you a second to... yeah, you can go.
TeamCaptain (02:18:03.071)
say a closing thought would be I'm getting kind of worried about wallhacks in the game and I would like them to maybe go forward thinking about them a bit more because I think that Daredevil wallhack is a bit too broken and so is Black Cats because like
Coach Mills (02:18:23.943)
You need to release a character that has anti-wallhack.
IRunShibb (02:18:26.38)
Yeah.
TeamCaptain (02:18:27.881)
Something yeah like I just think that on like from a neutral perspective it does too much without the character having the need to actually be good. Like it's just instant value without doing anything you know.
IRunShibb (02:18:37.774)
Hmm.
IRunShibb (02:18:41.336)
Too sure.
Coach Mills (02:18:42.799)
It's definitely hard because there's so many characters that have that ability in the comics. Like the ability to see through walls. There's so many.
TeamCaptain (02:18:47.637)
Yeah for sure, I totally get that. Like it really does take away from the power fantasy, like if you're trying to like, neuter their devil too hard on that aspect I completely understand that.
IRunShibb (02:18:48.908)
I know.
Coach Mills (02:18:58.663)
I think with this new portal that they set up, really imagine Kitty Pride will be released in the game sooner rather than later. Just the ability to go through walls. I just think that there's going to be a character that just doesn't give a shit about walls. They just can go through any wall, anywhere on the map. That's going to be a fun diver to get like, snuck up on through a wall. Although they can make her a support though. If you made her a support.
IRunShibb (02:19:05.614)
Hmm.
TeamCaptain (02:19:17.751)
I feel like you would have to like... Like what role could you put... That'd be even more bullshit than a diver though, like I would hate that.
Captain Coach (02:19:18.095)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:19:25.325)
I know, but that would be- but they would love it though, because it'd be exactly like the Juggernaut scene, because like, you know, like, you could literally just like run away from the ulting Hulk through a wall, and they're like, fuck you, like, it would be cool. I mean, that's their hero fantasy though, that's that character's hero fantasy is just being like, fuck you, I'm through a wall, alright, good luck.
TeamCaptain (02:19:29.283)
They were drove.
TeamCaptain (02:19:33.635)
Yeah.
IRunShibb (02:19:37.592)
Grab everyone's ankles, pull them through the floor to CC.
TeamCaptain (02:19:44.449)
Yeah, 100%. I mean, you could probably balance that with cooldowns, you know.
IRunShibb (02:19:44.526)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:19:47.025)
As long as she's not CCing me, I'm pissed. Yeah, yeah, that's true. As long you don't make it too little, yeah.
IRunShibb (02:19:53.112)
Does she have Locky too? Is there her dragon pet? Like that could be something too. Isn't that Kitty Prides? I'm pretty sure it is. Am I wrong?
Coach Mills (02:20:00.005)
I have not read enough comics to know, I'm sorry, unfortunately. I got a stack of comics back there and they're all DC, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Marvel, my bad. yeah, yeah, my bad, my bad. Yeah. I am, I love the direction that they're doing with the ultimate charge. I would like a little bit more, but I'm not liking the buffing of certain ultimates, like with Ultron. Like I think that that's like the big stain on this patch. Not a huge fan of that.
IRunShibb (02:20:01.964)
Okay, okay, okay. was like, that'd be her range attack.
And cancelled it. Have at him. Yeah, this is all warm up for him.
Captain Coach (02:20:09.773)
Wow. Burning bridges, Mr. Mills.
TeamCaptain (02:20:10.914)
This went for DC Allies.
IRunShibb (02:20:26.679)
Hmm.
Coach Mills (02:20:29.403)
Not a huge fan of buffing ultimates in general. Like I would like buffs to come through kit, you know, depth and skill expression and neutral. Like it's really pointless to me to nerf ultimates across the board and then buff just the power of them. I don't like it. Other than that, I'm happy. I'm happy with the game. yeah. But yeah, okay, team captain, tell people where to find you. Where can people support you, watch you, cheer for your team? Give people some insight.
IRunShibb (02:20:44.526)
Sure.
IRunShibb (02:20:48.494)
I agree with that.
TeamCaptain (02:20:57.326)
Okay, you can find me on twitch.tv slash team captain 001. That's what the 001 the other guy is not me. He has a Brock, a rock Lee profile picture. Make sure it's not him. Um, and then you can also find me on YouTube with the same thing. And I'm going to make a tech talk on Instagram, but you don't have to care about that. Just find me there.
Coach Mills (02:21:06.259)
Okay, no.
Captain Coach (02:21:10.481)
you
IRunShibb (02:21:19.341)
Yeah
Coach Mills (02:21:19.347)
Nice. Chip, what about you? Where can people support you? See your stuff, know, cheer you on.
IRunShibb (02:21:26.05)
Sure. Yeah, I run Shib on everything. TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, all that kind of stuff. I've been more of a TikTok Instagram guy, but I'm working on the other things. Trying to become a Twitter guy, because that's what people do nowadays, or X, I guess.
Coach Mills (02:21:37.523)
Yeah. Surprising rivals is super hot on Twitter right now. can tweet the most brain dead thing and you get like yesterday, like a week ago, I tweeted like Venom is is S tier by the way. And then they got like 8,000 likes. Like I don't even understand how that shit works. But just literally tweet the most brain dead thing you can think of about the game and you'll get engagement.
IRunShibb (02:21:41.888)
I know, and I'm bad at it.
Captain Coach (02:21:43.333)
Yeah.
Captain Coach (02:21:54.373)
People love the drama, man.
It's complaining and it's drama between people. I have a buddy who's a League of Legends content creator and he says he just follows rival stuff even though he knows nothing about the game just because he finds it entertaining how we all yell at each other. And I'm like, yeah, I can see it. I'm finding myself more and more just reading the stuff people say on Twitter. Yeah, no, I'm right there with you.
IRunShibb (02:22:09.452)
It's all funny. lot of-
IRunShibb (02:22:19.02)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:22:21.159)
But yeah, thank you guys so much for coming on. I hope to have y'all back. Good luck with your streams, the pro content, the pro casting, and yeah, we'll see you next time. Bye guys. See ya.
IRunShibb (02:22:22.51)
Alright.
Captain Coach (02:22:25.937)
Hell yeah. Thanks for coming on guys.
Captain Coach (02:22:30.577)
Bye
TeamCaptain (02:22:31.566)
Bye bye.
IRunShibb (02:22:33.806)
Thanks for having us boys. Seriously, was a ton of fun, man.
Captain Coach (02:22:35.533)
Absolutely.