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Unashamed Unafraid is a show dedicated to being unashamed about sexual addiction recovery and unafraid of coming unto Christ for healing. Pornography and sexual addiction are not something you are stuck with to manage your whole life. We share real stories of recovery, the best resources, information from experts, and answer anonymous questions with those who know. All to help you on the path of being 100% healed from pornography and sexual addiction.
. Speaker: Welcome to another story
episode of Unashamed, Unafraid.
We are unashamed of sexual
addiction recovery, and unafraid
of coming unto Christ for healing.
I'm here with Mason, and we are here
with Cam . Before we start, I just
wanted to put in a little plug for the
experience we had over the weekend.
We went to UCAP, we had a booth
Joshua came and he was there with me.
We had Phil shout out to Phil.
He came and helped us.
He's, he's been a listener for a
long time and a brother I met at boot
camp and we just had a great time.
We talked to a lot of people about the
guidebook that's going to be released soon
one thing I really enjoyed was, we
got contact information from people
and sent them podcast episodes
that were specifically tailored
to what they were going through.
That was pretty cool.
In fact, if you're out there and you
want a couple of podcast episodes
that apply just to you, send me an
email, sam at unashamedunafraid.
com, and let me know what
you're going through.
I want to connect with you, and we'll
talk about maybe some podcast episodes
that might resonate with you right now.
So we are here for another
story episode today
cam, we've gotten to know you a little bit
and, you know, Mason as we've established,
but, for anyone who doesn't know you.
I find it's easier for people
to introduce themselves.
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.
So happy to be here with some old friends.
I'm A college student just finishing
up at BYU, in construction management.
Yeah.
And I think over the last few
years I've learned that life is a
whole lot deeper than that for me..
I've learned so much about, recovery
And, finding my true purpose in life.
Finding what it means to really, , live.
I'm excited in a few weeks I'll
commission as a combat engineer officer.
And, I Can get stationed
anywhere across the world.
Could be Okinawa, could
be Italy, could be Kansas.
And I'm so excited to have, some of
the synergies and the lessons I've
learned from these past few years, work
and recovery going with me into that.
So just so glad to be here with y'all.
. Speaker: We like to start
at the beginning, man.
I what were the conditions like in
your life that created an environment
where addiction could thrive?
Speaker 4: Oh, that's a great question.
As I've been thinking about that
particular, growing up, I knew God.
But shame Kind of came in some of the
toxic parts of life, , you know, really
about middle school moving around.
My dad works in tech.
So we grew up in California, then
moved to Utah and then we moved to
upstate New York and to this community.
It's by Albany.
And it's a pretty well to do community.
It's kind of preppy and, I like,
I just felt so much pressure.
I just was totally molded into like
high academic standards a lot of my
friends were going to private schools,
they're getting groomed early by their
parents and families to go to, you
know, the best schools in America.
And they go to Ivy League schools.
Work on Wall Street and I felt
that pressure from my just other
students around me, my community
and people I try to make my friends.
And it just changed my
whole paradigm about life.
And it became so achievement based for me.
Speaker: What kind of shame
started to pop up in your life
in that kind of, an environment
? Speaker 4: A lot of the shame
kind of came from my siblings.
You know, my, all my, three of my siblings
are incredibly smart and, uh, they've
all made, like, full ride scholarships
to the colleges and universities
they've, they've chosen to attend to.
And so from a young age.
I felt so bad about myself.
I couldn't get the grades that
they could and that just had
such a big message over time.
You're stupid.
You're stupid.
And then seeing my peers some of
the excellent things they're doing.
I just felt like I
couldn't compete with that.
And it really hurt.
It really hurt.
Just like, you know, age 12 and 13.
I just felt every day going to
school or being with some of my
siblings, like, Oh, you're stupid.
You're stupid.
You're stupid.
And that did so much
damage to my self esteem.
Speaker: Walk us through, how porn and
unhealthy sexuality was introduced into
your life in what sounds like kind of
a, insecure time of your development.
Speaker 4: I think it's, you know, normal
for a lot of guys, you know, dealing
with masturbation and some pornography.
And there wasn't much to what
I was kind of experiencing.
My parents weren't really well equipped.
They were, it was really awkward, right?
, But they were, they tried to help.
And so in this vulnerable time of my
life, probably the biggest thing that
happened was I ended up going to a youth.
Um, That has, you know, since then, the
owners in, in jail are being prosecuted.
, Speaker: the old Sons of
Speaker 4: Helaman, huh?
Yeah, we
Speaker: talked about that when we met
Speaker 4: at
Speaker: boot camp.
Speaker 4: Exactly.
Speaker: Brutal, man.
Speaker 4: Brutal.
And I just learned to shame myself.
going to that from from years
during, you know, during high
school, like looking for answers.
It just infected my soul.
It infected how I viewed my relationship
towards God, how I viewed myself,
and, , it is just such deadly poison.
Speaker: So tell us about
the deadly poison, man.
That sounds like it not only did
it make it hard to get help, but it
actually maybe made some things worse.
Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
I thought my sexuality was evil.
Like I thought sex was horrible and bad.
And, , I know like not only like
this little cam, I talk a lot about
little cam, my therapist, shout
out to Mike Ingalls therapy, Utah.
And a little cam just
totally got shut down.
Like this fun, playful little kid
who just liked to have a good time
in this high pressure environment.
And then all of a sudden I was going
to this therapy group warping who,
who God is, you know, that God, he's
vengeful and, , and he, he hates
when we're weak and that was awful.
It just, this little cam just fell apart.
And, , and just losing my innocence.
and as a high schooler,
I kind of dealt with it.
But what ended up happening was, at the
end of high school my dad lost his job.
And a lot of things in my
family started falling apart.
, And my dad was super stressed.
Mm hmm.
And, what should have been is I should
have been building resilience on how
to be dealing with life and things.
But finally when my dad lost his
job and became super stressed and
started saying things that, you know,
he'd regret it just tore me down.
And, , and I started just turning
to, to porn other sexual things.
And I just lost complete hope for life.
I became super depressed.
And, , it was just such a low point.
I talked about high achievement.
And, uh, my, my whole goal in high
school, I put all my eggs in one basket.
I was like, if I can achieve,
then I'm worth something.
And so I decided I wanted
to go to West Point.
, I really liked the military.
I always have.
And, , You know, part of
the West Point process.
It's a rigorous process.
I met with, , members of
Congress to get a nomination.
I got my nomination.
I didn't get in.
And, , at the same time, that was
going on, I mean, you can imagine
if I put all my self esteem into
this goal of going to West Point.
It doesn't work out at the same time,
my My parents are not doing very good,
and so, I'm just engaging in a lot of,
sexual behaviors so I wasn't able to
serve a mission either at that time.
And so I just, I felt like
my life was falling apart.
I felt so much shame, so much,
just like, you're a loser, you've,
you've totally lost in life.
And I just completely
lost sight of who I am.
And what life's all about,
what I've learned now.
The irony is like, right?
Go into a program for help, right?
And then it twists you, it warps
your sense of identity that, you
know, achievement is your worth.
And it totally goes back and bites you.
, that's been a huge issue of mine and
something I've had to work on is self
hatred that I developed from that
towards myself and towards my sexuality.
Speaker 2: I mean we've talked
about that before, right?
That's the sons of handling group
and I have, I relate to that totally.
Speaker 4: Yeah,
Speaker 2: like that self
hatred of just like oh, man.
I didn't I met I was the one
that messed up pizza this week
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly room for
like 20 25 people, you know, you're
the one who messed up You're the one
who's not going out on a mission.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's awful.
Speaker 2: I can imagine how
rough that would be, right?
If, if you come from Sons of Helium
and this group and this environment and
being around all these kids that are so
high achieving and then that heartbreak
of West Point of not getting in.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So what then?
Speaker 4: I was just
looking for some friends.
I went to a school event
and it was a blackout.
And, , I wore black face paint.
And, I was like 17 and didn't
really understand what that meant.
And, , at a left leaning
public high school.
It was well to do.
That was a gross crime.
And, , I became, became the racist.
And, , I had kind of all these things
piling up and it just destroyed me.
Just such a low time in my life.
Just really struggled.
Who am I?
You know, what am I supposed to do?
I just lost like all paradigms
of what a good life is.
And, so much shame towards
myself and self hatred.
Speaker 2: You say this is
kind of where you fully went
more into acting out behaviors.
Speaker 4: Yeah I think that's really
where I developed some like just like
going overboard I Was eventually after
a year at BYU I loved our ROTC program.
I kind of rebounded I'd met some
good friends so good people I kind
of like found my place I gained
some self respect and and then
Cove it hit and that was tough.
I was able to get on a mission My
parents advocated for me with some
church leaders I did have some church
leaders that were really hard to work
with, and that was very, very difficult.
I think just if they had listened,
that would have been so great.
And going on my mission The
behaviors on the mission during
COVID continued to escalate.
And, , those are some dark times being
a missionary, so grateful for my mission
president and for how loving he was.
had an amazing mission president,
And I was able to stay out on the mission.
But , I think that's when I really
like, okay, this is unmanageable.
Like I should not be doing this.
You know, if you're You're doing stuff
on search computers and stuff like like I
Speaker: totally remember
that was me, too I think
Speaker 4: who am
Speaker: and honestly, I appreciate
you mentioning that because for me
and I think a lot of people, that's
the one area where we won't go.
It's like, I was looking
at porn on my mission.
People don't talk about that.
And just as many people are
looking at porn on their mission,
Speaker 4: oh, exactly.
Speaker: Because that's the highest
stress environment you've ever been in.
So dude, thanks for being
unashamed about that.
That's really, that's as real as it gets.
Speaker 2: So I'm curious during this
time you've kind of hinted at it a
little bit and said a little bit, but I'm
really curious during all of this time.
Who is God to you?
Speaker 4: There's like a saying in
my family, and that's that you can't
outwork any member of my family you can't
outsmart us, but you just, it's just not
possible to outwork a member of my family.
We'll get there early, we'll stay there
late, and it's that achievement mindset.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And it's, it's toxic hard work.
God demands that of us.
He demands that we show up early,
that we stay late, that we, , we
don't take rest for ourselves.
We don't take care of ourselves.
If we do, we'll be, you'll be punished.
Like, why are you stopping?
You know, and that
mindset, that's horrible.
Just waking up every day in
life and like, Hey, if I don't
get this done, I'm a loser.
I suck.
There's no way there's no point in living.
The point of life is to achieve
because super good at something, you
know, to get recognition from others.
There's nothing.
, Nothing in of it for itself.
Speaker: but If life was that
difficult, there was that much shame.
I mean, where do you go from there?
Speaker 4: Well, I think one thing
that's different about my story is
I've always been honest since I was 14.
I knew I was going to crash.
I knew it was going to crash
land coming back from my mission.
And, I talked to my parents and they
got me a really good therapist who
I've worked with for the past almost
four years . And just the change
in my life I've seen since then.
I've just gone all out on recovery
and trying to find a little cam again.
Just trying to find a good life to live.
Speaker: Mason and I both talk
all the time about the shame we
have about you got to earn it.
I need to be good enough, right?
Like we have that same shame script
and I'm genuinely curious to know what
it looks like to recover from that,
and to find little Cam, or to find
little Sam, or to find little Mason.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker: Cause like,
we're not there yet, dude.
What did you do
Speaker 4: a few years ago I just was
working with my therapist a lot, and we
talk about, , You know, your childhood.
When was life happy?
, What, you know, when we talked a lot
about connection, self connection right.
I just had some trust issues
with people close in my life.
And, it's just all about how
do you connect with little cam?
How do you find them?
And And I've loved what I've found.
So it's something I've gotten into.
I love ultra running and I've
done 50 milers I've done just
like a lot of long distance races.
I love pushing myself.
I love that like no quit Mindset
the kind of military, you
know, like let's push yourself.
But I feel like at the end
I've always thrown up my
medal because I did it for me.
I did it for myself to push myself
because I love myself and I love
finding that out about me what can I do?
Who can I be?
A big experience finding Little Cam is
I decided to drive out to California.
My uncle had, , terminal brain cancer.
And, , I grew up in California for
the first eight years of my life.
My uncle taught me how to shoot he
used the green beret for a little bit.
I just love this uncle.
And I went to go out to see him, and, , he
was so sick, he and his wife were like,
Hey, we can't even see you, you know,
they were trying to be really polite, but
they're just, life was in such turmoil.
And, uh, I was just out in California,
and I just was camping on the beach.
And I just remember running down
the beach and seeing the waves.
Hitting the rocks and just seeing
how they were smoothed out.
And, , God really spoke to me when,
, just saying like, Hey, I'm gonna
smooth you out just like these rocks.
It just takes time.
It just takes time to learn who you
are and get in touch with yourself
to build emotional resilience
and intelligence and connection.
It takes time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So since I came back from
a mission, since I crash landed,
I've just done everything I can.
I haven't been perfect at all, right?
I didn't realize I could
be where I am in life.
, I've worked with so many good sponsors.
Some of them have been on this show,
and I love them and I admire them.
One of them is my sponsor's sponsor.
He said, God doesn't count how
many times we have acted out.
, He counts how many times we have left.
And I think the growth mindset and
the patience, To perfection, you
know, just getting a little better
every day.
just having patience with ourselves
and the growth mindset in the process.
It's a good Ted talk on that, but, , I
just feel like that's where I really
found God is this is super patient person.
Speaker 2: Something I'm sitting
here thinking about, because Sam
said it, I mean like, this is our
story we're going through a similar
thing, we're all just at different
parts in the process, in the journey.
Right now in my journey, my thing
is learning how to just let pain be.
Going with little cam, I assume that
there's gotta be a facing of pain.
So what is your relationship look
like around pain and around the pain
that you've had in your childhood
Speaker 4: I've been able to let it go.
It's been really hard.
. But I think I'm building my own life.
Finding where I belong and feeling,
helping myself to feel safe.
, I just find, I find I
feel safe with myself now.
You know, no one else can give that to me.
That's just something I do for myself.
It was really hard with my parents.
, It was really hard on some of my
family, some of the resentment
I just held on and I have held.
facing pain is hard.
I love having hobbies because they help
me to not stay in the pain . That's
something I've struggled with is just
reminiscing and ruminating in the pain.
There was a point where after my uncle
died, and , I'd had some, so just some
tough things tough experiences with Army.
, My therapist was like, either you
like get on depression meds, which
would mean the end of my military,
lifestyle or, you know, desires.
Or you like actually start
taking care of yourself.
You actually, , you go
out and you do fun things.
You take care of little Cam.
You go do what little Cam wants to do.
You know, I like to get donuts.
Little Cam likes donuts . Sometimes
I like to go get some maple bars.
It's just the simple things.
Speaker 2: Maverick maple bars do nothing.
It's
Speaker 4: harder.
I love donuts.
It's like the little simple
things that I treasure as a kid.
You know, I don't focus
on the pain anymore.
Speaker 2: Dude, I love that, because
something, we just had a podcast
with Drew Boa, and something he
said was like, you start to learn to
become that adult that you never had,
that safe adult that you never had.
And I love the fact that you're
taking the time to listen to the pain.
And listen to what it wants, listen
to what little Cam needs, right,
go give him a freaking donut.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so I love that
because I think that's something
I need to do because right now
I don't want to feel the pain.
I don't want to do anything with the
pain, so I just numb out from the pain
Speaker: That's a cool theme because
it's like what you've described to me
in my own words, feels like, I wasn't
able to be myself as a kid and I
struggled with that for a long long time.
Speaker 4: Yeah
Speaker: And it just got darker and
darker In order to lift that darkness
I had to go back and talk to that kid
and ask him What he wasn't getting
that he needed and then give it to him.
Speaker 4: Exactly.
Speaker: That is fascinating, dude.
It's about going back and
honoring the historical pain.
Speaker 4: Achievement
based lifestyle is great.
That's it for now.
Nice meeting you.
But like, if you're not living
in the present, and you're not
taking care of yourself, you know,
there's just no point to life.
There's just no point.
I had a friend who committed
suicide, a dear friend, and
it was awful, it was horrible.
You know, my heart goes out
to him, but there's a point
where I can't let that be me.
I have to get something out of life.
I have to enjoy it and That just led
to Some amazing things have happened.
I was like dating at BYU after some of
my friend committed suicide and stuff.
And, a girl, I open, I was honest
with her about my show's pornography.
It's like first girlfriend I'd had.
And, she came from a really
high achieving family.
You know, it kind of had that mindset.
And she just was like, you're disgusting.
I don't want anything to do with you.
And after the total
vulnerability, that really hurt.
And, , I was getting better at
helping myself feel safe and
just being like, Hey, it's okay.
Like little cam scared, little
cam is having a hard time.
But meeting my current wife, , Lindsay
has been has been really helpful
to create that safe environment.
I told her.
I was like about Thanksgiving
of 2024 as I told her about what
was kind of going on in my life.
And we'd been official and it's
kind of time to bring it up.
And, , she just listened.
She listened so well.
, And she worked with me on it and she
just helped me to feel so accepted
and to feel so safe that I mean, how
could I ever look at pornography again?
And I haven't.
, And I've learned that from her, you
know, it's not, it's not codependent.
Like I rely on her to feel safe,
but she's helped teach that to me.
And, , I couldn't trade
anything for the freedom.
I feel now freedom from shame, freedom
from the horrible depressed life.
I'm so grateful.
That I'm 25 and I have the rest of my
life ahead of me to live and enjoy.
And there's so much fun that
I, I think I'm going to get
to have so much, , adventure.
And, , I just couldn't
imagine any other life now.
, I feel a big turnaround I've had is,
just realizing that it's not about,
it's not about my wife, it's about me.
You know, my wife can't do
anything for me, unfortunately.
I have to take care of myself
my recovery is, is my, It's me.
I have to rescue little Cam
. My wife can't do that for me.
Speaker 2: Going from little Cam,
right, high achieving neighborhood,
high achieving family, friends, to some
hardships and High school and college
and mission having this God who's
basically like a drill sergeant , right?
Just like
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're
said drill sergeant.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, whatever you want color.
Yeah How has that been changing
Now that you know, you found your
wife and you're starting to love
yourself and rescue little cam Yeah,
how does God fit into that rescue
? Speaker 4: That's a great
question and he's everything.
I kind of talked about
California, seeing the ocean.
There's just so many things.
Like I said, I've worked with so
many sponsors and amazing people.
And one of them is this Jewish guy
I met online from Toronto, Canada.
And , and he's like, Cam.
, you believe in the Santa Claus God.
And I was like, what do you mean by that?
And he said, , you know, he
sees you when you're sleeping.
He knows when you're awake.
He knows if you've been bad or
good, so be good for goodness sake.
Speaker 2: That's funny.
Speaker 4: And I was like, you know,
it's funny a Jewish guy would know that
song, but, , I, uh, he was so right.
And, , , going to warrior heart.
I think I had a huge
paradigm shift with God.
I realized that God wanted my success,
and He was so patient with me.
And seeing those rocks getting slowly,
eroded, weathered, smoothed out.
This last summer my wife and
I went to North Carolina.
And just there, I just, I wasn't
thinking, you know, and I was, we're
at a, we're at a sandy beach now.
And so naturally, I just, I was
kind of thinking to myself, wow.
Just looking where I am and how
God's changed, how God's changed me.
And there's a little scripture
I'll share, actually,
It's , Ezekiel 3626, it says A new heart
also will I give you, and a new spirit
will I put into you, And I will take
away the stony heart out of your flesh,
and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And, like, wow, just, he
helped me find little Ken.
He helped me realize that life's
so much about adventure and wonder.
And that to me is about innocence.
And I just couldn't do, you
know, nothing can replace that.
He's just so loving.
He looks down on us, he counts
the times, until we're clean.
He's not angry with us.
That's been everything to
me . My wife can't help me
with my relationship with God.
Although she has a similar one.
But I just talk to him everyday.
I do , my daily journals.
I do two way prayer.
And he talks to me.
And he tells me how much I mean to him.
I read a book recently.
Called, , The Shack.
It's a really good book.
And, in it, the main character,
his daughter's kidnapped
and brutally murdered.
He goes to the place that she was
brutally murdered, has a weekend with
God, and while he's there, God tells
him to tell to his friends, when he
goes back, tell them I'm especially
fond of them.
That's just so beautiful and that's
the truth is God is especially
a fond of us He is just so aware
of What's going on in our lives?
Speaker: Yeah,
Speaker 4: and he has so much love
Speaker: Camas were wrapping up man
if you had to just give one goal a
nugget The thing that you feel like has
changed your life and your recovery.
You're 15 months sober
now, something like that.
Tell the audience and tell me
and Mason, cause we're here
because we want to learn from you.
What should we know about recovery?
Speaker 4: everyone's
recovery is their own.
, It's your journey.
And, , I really like in 12 step groups
when people say they speak from their
own experience, because it's something
you have to work out yourself.
It's, , something you
have to learn on your own.
You know, you can have.
A lot of people help you and love you,
and I think that's super important.
You can't do it alone.
But, , it's something you have to do.
Something that has to
happen inside of you.
Something has to change.
Speaker: tell us about your
song, man.
. Speaker 4: I love going to
boot camp and hearing Rattle.
And, you know, the dead bones.
This is the dry bones rattling.
It's a rattle song by Elevation Worship.
And, , I just love that,
like, wow, I'm coming alive.
You've seen The Chosen, you see when Jesus
he has the vision with Ezekiel
and it's time to come alive.
And I feel like I'm now
truly living, you know.
I'm so grateful I've met so many people.
It's never too late.
You know, I've met with so many
people who are way older, double my
age, three times my age, but I'm so
grateful I get to live a beautiful life.
Speaker: Kim, thanks
for being on, brother.
Appreciate you.
Guys, thanks for watching.
You can find us on social
media at unashamedunafraid.
Get access to our bonus content and
become an outsider on unashamedunafraid.
com.
and Catch us in the bonus
content to hear Cam's story
about emotional enmeshment thanks
again for watching, and until next
time, continue to live unashamed.
Here is Rattle by Elevation Worship.