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A show about basketball
0:00:00
Welcome to Gucci Row on the Rebel HD 2. I'm your host Kevin Kelly with co-host Will Despart. Thanks for tuning in to our court side conversations covering all things NBA.
0:00:14
What's up y'all?
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Gucci Roe, episode 8. I'm here, your host, Kevin Kelly. Your co-host, Will Despart. How are you feeling this week, Will? Pretty good, how about you?
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Good, good, good.
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Feeling great. Not too much going on. We're back here in the stool feels good. We're gonna say back at it
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But yeah, no doing well
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Just to preview this one. There's not a ton of news going on or updates within the NBA world You know, this is typically the the really dead part of the offseason Which is fine, you know, we got a little kickers just some news to go through but mostly keep it on light on there and just get into some more opinion type stuff and questions.
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For sure.
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So yeah, one random thing, not even really basketball related that I wanted to translate to the basketball talk. I saw this TikTok that asked, it was just random, it asked if you got dropped into 2030 just for 10 minutes, what's one question you'd ask? So what's one basketball question you'd ask if you got dropped in the 2030?
0:01:45
I'd like to know if like the Warriors core retires as Warriors. As a fan, I think that's like, I think we've won all the championships we're going to get at this point. I think for me as a fan to see it like that perfectly bow on it as it would be for them to retire together.
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Yeah, no, that's a good one, especially because there's been so much, you know Obviously Draymond just signed his extension But there hasn't been any lack of talk about whether clay and Draymond are there for the long Definitely like something that's always brought up every offseason and I don't know I definitely want to see them all retire together, even though I know it's probably not the best for like the long-term future I think yeah, I could agree and you know, they gave so much to that franchise. I think Finals are valuable enough to where you should kind of keep that going if they want to and then also on that same side of the coin like Players are a lot more likely to join you in free agency if they see You know your career be treated with that type of respect and admiration like that
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I also just care about the sentimentality of sports and everything. As much as it is all about winning, the winning doesn't mean anything if it's not with people that you are supporting and you've been following for their whole careers.
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So it obviously would be the perfect. For sure. That's why for a lot of people I think those homegrown championships like Giannis had and whatnot are really valuable. So yeah, to have a whole dynasty built on it, I think that's a good point. The sentiment definitely matters. So mine, if I got dropped into 2030, my question would be... So Jimmy recently said that he doesn't... This is, I guess, kind of stealing from you. I'll give two. Jimmy recently said that he would love to not play for another team besides the Heat. And you know, when we got him, I didn't see this type of arc for our team with him at the center. Like greatly have exceeded my expectations from that point. So that said, I would love to see him, like you said, stay and finish out here. And I think he just represents that so well. And then I guess the other one, the other one would be how many all-star games the shade and she up sharp make yeah for sure. Nah, but um Yeah, that was that was just a fun one. And then so I guess to get into it a little bit we'll start with some of the potential player movement With Harden and Dame obviously being the big names James Harden it was reported this week that his request out similarly to how Dame apparently only wants Miami. It was said that Harden is pretty dead set on going to LA playing with Russ. And yeah, I don't know if you have thoughts about what Harden on the Clippers team with Russ would look like?
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It's fine, they're not going to win any championships or anything, but I mean, you might as well.
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Yeah. Screw it. yeah screw it and it's funny you know i saw someone mentioning about how much movement hardened and russ and even katie like that whole thunder uh... has just moved around the league so much but um... yet so on that hard no uh... a bit of it is about daryl morey they've had a long-standing relationship you know going back to houston there was a g m there and he essentially built a whole successful roster around just having the ball in Harden's hand as much as possible and clearly that's something that you'd appreciate as a player. But that said, he traded for him, Morey moved to the Sixers and then traded for him from the Nets and obviously his role is a lot different there much more of a playmaker doesn't have the nearly the usage rate that he did because it was in bead and stuff but um you know it always seemed like they had a great relationship but it came out this week that the relationship with Maury is seemingly fractured and yeah I guess most people wouldn't expect that even when I saw him ask out I was sort of under the impression that it was uh you know not really a feud with Maurice per se.
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I'm not that surprised. I mean, how many times can you spurn someone before they start to get in their feelings
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about it?
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On both sides, right? But yeah, so then, the question is, what is he going to look like at training camp and at the beginning of the season? Because all the memes are floating around right now about the fat suit and about how he just looked entirely out of shape when he wanted to move. But Jake Fisher reports that he is going to report to training camp as of now and he doesn't expect that to change. Which I think is interesting because he's not in one of these situations with a huge contract where he doesn't have any leverage. This is the last year of his deal. If he wanted to theoretically hold out despite all my personal feelings about how much I'd hate it, he probably could. I'm interested to see if that pans out and if he does show up ready to go for a training camp. Also, I guess to pose it to you, that said, he took the pay cut on his player option to help the team and now he wants out. I guess, like what value, he's still James Harden obviously, he's still one of the best passers in the league, led the league in assists last year, I believe. So, yeah, like what value do you think he demands on an expiring deal?
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I mean, I'm not gonna move heaven and earth from if I'm a GM, like I.
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I don't even think I'm giving up a lot of draft capital. from I don't think it'll be draft capital. If it is the Clippers, what does it look like? There's no way you have Russ, Harden, PG, and Kawhi there, right? One of them's gotta be involved, but it's not gonna be Russ because of the money, obviously. Does one of them leave? I'm just confused about how that ends up looking. stay on the Sixers. Joel Embiid was at the uninterrupted film festival and had a little interview with Mav Carter and the quote blew up. He said, I just want to win a championship, you know, whatever it takes. I don't know where that's going to be, whether it's in Philly or anywhere else. He took to Twitter right after to say he was trolling. And Sam Amick of The Athletic reported that the Sixers are of the belief that they're not worried about that at all and that he wants a Kobe Dirk type, like, one team long career arc. Do you have thoughts on that?
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I mean, they should definitely be worried. I think every team that has a star player should be worried. It's not 2000 anymore. It's not 2010 anymore. Players aren't going to stick around stick around Yeah, I agree
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That that kind of mentality might work if you haven't paid the guy, you know if the max hasn't kicked in yet But yeah, he's gotten all the money he needed in Philly like he's had I just want MVPs had his individual success I don't think that he feels so tied to Philly that if a great opportunity came out for him to join a contender with the right system in place, I think he absolutely would. Another bit of controversy from this week comes out of your end with Draymond. A few times actually, he has made some comments. So I guess the first one, Sarwath, he was on the Pat Bev pod where he was discussing last year's training camp incident where footage leaked at practice of him punching Jordan Poole in the face, who of course this offseason got moved to the Wizards. And yeah, they talked about that a little bit and Draymond hinted towards a buildup of the beef and basically said how it wasn't triggered by something immediate his quote was I Don't just get triggered by something like that fast to that degree You know what I'm saying like this is a team ain't nobody on my team triggering me in an instant You know we stand on stuff that you don't say amongst men. We know things that you have to stand on.
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I mean, fair enough.
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Like, you're not going to get any brownie points for knocking your teammate out, but I mean, I think it was pretty obvious at that point that something was clearly said that crossed the line. I mean, I don't think that a physical reaction like that would be provoked if something verbal that was not egregious was said.
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So yeah, you have to imagine it was something.
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I don't think that excuses what Draymond did, but I also don't buy the narrative in this that like Jordan pull is some like innocent victim like
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Yeah, no, it's interesting like is on the Draymond end of things like last a lot of people are mentioned about how he came Out and was like really apologetic and seemingly sincerely apologetic immediately and then Obviously, it's a lot more candid now and speaking pretty openly. And I guess, you know, some people are saying that Jordan Poole is taking the high road by not saying anything. I don't know. He's throwing subliminals himself. But then, to stay on that, the next part of it was Jordan Poole's dad, who took to Twitter, was
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I don't believe that part, first off. I don't think Draymond's ducking anyone much less a father of a kid who's 6'3". I mean, yeah, we'll carry on.
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Yeah, so then, I agree, and apparently Draymond does too. He replied and basically said, uh, he tweeted back at him and said, That's cute. Basically, he saw him all the time in meeting rooms from last year, and that is a lie. And lastly, he said to probably avoid calling him things like that You know soft and I guess you could imagine things along that line, you know I just think it's a good entertainment. Obviously when family members and Players get involved on Twitter, but I think it always makes the player whose family member got involved look worse because yeah
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It's a nightmare You're a grown adult your parents shouldn't be getting involved in your work drama. If I have an issue with someone at work, I'm not calling my mother and having my mother tear them a new one.
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It reminds me of, what's her name? Horford and the heat that she catches on Twitter. Yeah, I agree. I think it's awesome when family members are active in a positive, fun way. I think we've mentioned on the pod, Tari Eason's mom, who is really funny and active on Twitter. But yeah, like once you get into, you know, taking positions on controversial things and calling, calling other players names.
0:13:47
Not even that, when you're provoking a play, like you're, you're trying to stir something up that is, this stuff is going to be in the media, whatever, we get that. It's going to be talked about because it's sensationalism and that's what they go for. But like you're, this does Jordan Poole no good to stay in the media, it does his father no good to talk about it and talk like he was doing a tough guy act with Draymond last year when we all saw it, Jordan Poole wasn't even speaking to Draymond, they were, he was avoiding him at all costs.
0:14:17
Yeah, and I think, definitely as far as PR goes, that's the way you should play it, even after, like.
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Oh yeah, I think Jordan Poole did the exact right thing, because he lets Draymond talk well yeah i think you're in for the big that would be he was dream on talk himself in this
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a whole dream on every the more dream on speaks the worst he makes himself walk now i agree i think both of them to like that's i'd really think that's jordan looks better for uh... being quiet and not directly engaging that said you know i guess it's pretty commonly known amongst most players that
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in scenarios where maybe he even shouldn't yeah I mean that's known that's part of what I was insinuating earlier the guy runs his mouth yeah like obviously doesn't deserve to get knocked out at his job no but you're not surprised that
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it happened given what I've heard about him also no right and then I guess to close it up the last thing on Draymond, this one's I mean far less consequential but I think worth talking about. He had a quote where he came out and basically like declared how I mean we all knew it, but he doesn't really like Chris Paul and didn't in the past but also said that like it yes, he didn't change his mind there but basically said that it's all good and we're grown men can have that conversation move past it and work together.
0:15:39
Okay, well have the conversation and move past it. Don't sit in an interview and say, oh, I'm going to stand on my word. Well, you're an adult, okay? You have, you're employed, you have a job.
0:15:49
Like, yeah, like, I guess I'm grateful that the scenario does come up because it's, you know, something that obviously athletes have to deal with that we probably don't imagine. Like you tend to think that these guys generally get together or get along really well and are friends and stuff, but obviously as we know and-
0:16:09
I mean, don't be naive. I bet they're not friends more often than they are friends. It's just like any work environment. You're not going to just be great friends for life with the people who just... I think people think sports are this super human entity at times, and it's not just a human position and a human job. These guys are all just employees, although they're still making way more than the typical employee will make. They're not their own bosses, they're not making the calls, they're still like, I don't
0:16:40
know. Yeah, for sure. I think, that's a great point, because I think most fans do this. I'm probably even guilty sometimes of not applying typical scrutineer standards to them based on, like you said, how much money they make and how much limelight they're in. But yeah, they have all of these typical employment issues that everyone faces. And that's not even to say the more money you make should subject you to more criticism. I don't believe that just because they make a bunch of money they should be criticized for that and that should be like, oh, they don't do enough
0:17:12
to earn that money, like I think they do but that point also goes like I don't know.
0:17:17
Yeah no I think it's less so about the money when it comes to scrutiny and more so just like you're a public figure entertainer like you kind of subject yourself.
0:17:26
Even people in regular paying jobs like they're subject to more like regulations and more like like I guess like they look at we get people in like the regular like civilian life get way less of a public like way less of a leash than like an athlete does at their job like if you say or do one wrong thing in the regular workforce you're
0:17:48
i think that's true on some fronts and there's some where it's like the complete opposite that's fair cuz like i agree but then there's also things that me and you could post on our socials right now and be fine and uh... these people could post and now have a job tomorrow.
0:18:05
I mean, maybe like a gun. Sure. But I don't think we could get away with, I don't know, like a Myers Leonard thing, like obviously no one's going to go on and say racial slurs, but I think that'll get
0:18:18
you fired from your job either way. Yes, but also there's probably-
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It just won't get you as much public criticism.
0:18:24
Well, it won't even be seen is my point. Yeah, that's fair. So yeah, I think that there's a really good point there and like I said, also the opposite side applies too. So, yeah, I think most importantly, like you said, it's just important to view these guys through the lens of just a normal person because that's what they are. So another just more kicker, fun type thing here, we're just going to – I found this question on the NBA subreddit. They basically just posed the question, what hot takes are you willing to admit you were wrong about? Which I think it's fun to read the prompt the purse the original poster Mentioned that his was when Rondo was traded to The Mavericks in 2014 he told people they'd be contenders and that Rondo will take them to a new level And he was congratulating fans on see I'm being able to witness playoff Rondo. He said that one didn't seem to work out in my favor. One that I wanted to read, the high sub voted one was a post that said, I thought Shay was overrated prior to last season. Thought people were crazy when they were expecting him to take a huge leap because he's an inconsistent shooter and playmaker. But hey, if you can average 31 points per game without needing threes, I concede.
0:20:01
I feel like that may have been more common in like 2010, but only 2010. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
0:20:11
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
0:20:15
I don't know.
0:20:16
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
0:20:19
I don't know.
0:20:20
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
0:20:25
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. that's a good hot take. I feel like that may have been more common in like 2010 and but only 2010. I think by 2012 that was probably a stale take but I think there was a there was when Blake Griffin was first coming into the league like that rookie year he had that wasn't actually his rookie season because he was injured his first whole rookie season. Yeah he was just like basically sitting on everyone's shoulders like dunking like that was the last rookie all-star too so yeah this is one that I
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think you'll have fun with they said trading Monte Ellis Monte Ellis instead
0:20:58
of curry well that yeah that's my that's probably would be for me too because it was gonna be a huge mistake I was when the Warriors traded Monte I was I was not a Warriors fan for very long I was only in like sixth grade and I became a Warriors fan because the school we went to was called the Warriors and they were the worst team in the league. So it was kind of like, okay I'm just like kind of like a almost like a meme. Yeah, but Like when they traded Monta Ellis, I was like, okay, what's the point? Like I didn't like at that point Steph Curry wasn't anything he was right
0:21:27
That's what I was gonna say Like as I mentioned with the Blake Griffin being a hot take that this was not a hot take at the time Like I think like if Steph were the one to be traded that day. It wouldn't have batted nearly as many eyes. Yeah, especially, yeah, I mean, Steph, despite his career, was not an insane prospect and got passed on for some significantly worse point guards.
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Even in the beginning of his career, he was just injury-ridden. It didn't seem like he was going to be able to carry a franchise, especially as a point guard. And like after Monta got traded, it wasn't even like immediate where he was like the guy right away. Like he had the opportunities and he was in that driver's seat at that point, but he didn't really step into it until the 2013 season.
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Yeah.
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And then I guess one more I have. This is I don't think this was a hot take at all, but obviously, looking back, it looks really bad. This one, well, I'll just start with the comment. They said, I thought KD, Kyrie Hart, and Nets were going to ruin the league for another four years like the Warriors. And, yeah, I don't know if I was that far, but I was certainly of the opinion that they would continue.
0:22:42
Yeah, I would have thought they got a title. I thought they would have got a title, but I don't think they... I never thought they were going to, like, run the league, just to the sheer fact that of course one of them was always gonna like leave the picture like the incompatibility It took KD four years in Golden State to get jealous and leave or three It took three seasons ago and stay for him to
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See the slights and get jealous and use that to like as a way to get out So yeah, and trade didn't help the cause either but yeah typical. Yeah, but, yeah, that's definitely one I'm on. I think that they were, yeah, I don't know if I'd say warriors, like, but I thought they were going to be those guys for a while. I guess in the same vein, like, are there any players you were extremely high on either in college, high school, or even like early in their career, who didn't pan out or just average in the league? Like this isn't, isn't mine, but when it comes to mine, when I say early in the league is just Dante Exum. He was a guy that I thought would be like, I guess I kind of picture him as like being like what Tyrese Halliburton is now. Yeah, I was like a Swiss Army knife kind
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of guy but like, yeah, still an all star level and he just barely even serviceable. So I
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know it is cool to see him get a contract now. Yeah, it is. So mine. One big one. Seventh and 14 year olds 15 year old by the time they were 17 or 18 they had regressed
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like he he was kind of just like an Ellen sensation yeah he yeah but seventh
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woods he didn't regress to the point like Julian Newman did because he wasn't
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5'3 yeah yeah but like he still never got past like his peak was literally as
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a basketball player was at 16 years old like like bro I remember when I was like, I don't know, in elementary, there was this kid who went on Ellen named Jay Sean Augusto.
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Yeah, I remember him.
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I was friends with him on Facebook.
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Really? Yeah, it's just Julian Newman reminds me of him, but. Yeah, except the Jay Sean kid seemed like a decent kid and the Jayden Newman, like you saw the video on Twitter, I'm sure, of him this week where he threw the ball off that guy's head and then got tackled. Yeah. I'm doing the same thing.
0:25:41
Yeah.
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What do you expect?
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What are you doing, dude? You're these you are grown men. They're way bigger than you.
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Yeah, no doubt. And I guess one more I would be completely remiss not to mention is Dennis Smith Jr. because I was so extremely high.
0:25:57
I remember you being super high on him, but I wasn't really so hip on him.
0:26:01
Like he's just like he was kind of a guy that was under my radar. He's like one of those super, I don't know if I fall under this category anymore, but like super bag talk loving, like everyone who is like the whole eye test type guys, he has a beautiful game. I saw a tweet this week that I agree with. Someone posed the question who's got the best Hesi in NBA history, and I don't know if he is number one but my god he's definitely up there he yeah that's like the signature of his game has he's since he was like 15 has just been like ridiculous it also goes to show as good as a hooper as you are like that's not even that's just half the battle like there's so much more endurance and like mental toughness and fortitude that's required to be good in the NBA other than just being a great hooper. For sure. And like, yeah, I used to fall victim to watching a lot of mostly just guards and highlights and like really, like I said, I test appreciating the ones that were just really shifty, had good wiggle and handle. So, and then a game set and that's not even like the strongest way to do it. It's almost a liability at times. It's a small part. Yeah. Especially, yeah. Especially a guy like Chris Paul, especially in his prime with like the Hornets even, that was an all-business point guard. Like, he wasn't out there like doing the Jamal Crawford thing. He was straight to the point, a distributor, and it worked. And even then, the game was so much different in terms of like offensive outlooks and yeah, I think that...
0:27:33
That was also like the peak of like streetball-style NBA, though, like how heavy isolation ball was in the mid 2000s
0:27:41
yeah but it was so many it's funny i see videos of like the long twos like the foot on the line twos that people used to take while they were wide open it's like bro take a half step
0:27:49
back that's a shot that should have always been extinct i was so this three-pointer like even when i was in cyo i was like a fifth grader or like sixth grade when the three-point line gets introduced or whatever they're like the long two is the worst shot you can take yeah
0:28:03
Especially like no because a lot of them you look go and look back at old footage Therefore is literally on the line like you
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Might took a lot to get used to that when the line first came in that first season probably had some egregious ones where your
0:28:14
Foot's just like halfway sitting on yeah, and so that kind of I saw someone talk about like what what's the next? So when we look back at footage of old hoop, and that's what stands out to us, something like that, like when they're taking a 21 footer and they could step a foot and a half back and be on the 3. I guess the question is, what's the next thing that we'll kind of look back at, like early 2020s basketball? And obviously, there's no real good or right answer to this. But we'll look back on and be like, man, what were we doing?
0:28:49
I think the amount of three-pointers will regress back to the mean at some point. I don't think it's something that will last forever. I think it will morph into something different that maybe we haven't seen before, but I don't think it's just going to stay this way. Because the reality is, it's not an entertaining way to play basketball, all things considered. At least it's not more entertaining than basketball in its purest form. And I think what we've seen with the MLB do this year is the MLB basically saved themselves by putting changes in that were controversial at first. I didn't even agree with the changes, but they've been proven to work and they've been proven to make things better and bring in viewership. And you just can't be so stuck in your ways that you're not willing to do that.
0:29:31
Yeah, I wonder what the path will be if it will be like Extending this revolution we kind of have going on or like you said a regression My last one I'll close it off with I think that one that I would look forward is just the Ability to fight through switches and how like matchup hunting is so prominent But there's so many teams that just allows seemingly allow switches or don't have the right scheme to avoid getting bad mismatches. I think that's one. But that's all we have for our show today. I appreciate you guys being here with us. Thank you so much. My name is Will, Kevin Kelly. I'm Will Despart, not Kevin Kelly. I appreciate y'all, man. That's a wrap for Gucci Rowe this week. Thanks for tuning in on the Rebel HD 2 with your hosts Kevin Kelly and Will Despard. You can find us on Instagram at 1kevkelly and willdespard. You can find us on Instagram at 1kevkelly and willdespard. We'll see you next time on the Rebel HD 2.