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Creativity isn’t tidy—it’s risky, chaotic, and full of surprises. It’s full of breakthroughs and breakdowns, moments of flow and moments of doubt. Join Mishu Hilmy for unfiltered conversations with artists, filmmakers, musicians, and fearless makers who thrive in the unknown, embrace imperfection, and create at the edge of possibility.
This is your front row seat to the self-doubt, unexpected wins, and messy emotional work of making something real. But craft isn’t just about feeling—it’s about problem-solving, process, and the devotion behind mastery.
Subscribe now for weekly episodes that celebrate the unpredictable, the playful, and the deeply human side of making things. Join the mailing list at mischiefpod.com
Email anytime at podcast@ohhmaybe.com and follow us @mischiefpod
Mishu Hilmy (00:03)
Welcome to Mischief in Mastery where we embrace the ups, downs, and all around uncertainty of a creative life and that steady and sometimes not so steady journey toward expertise. Each episode we talk candidly with people I know, people I don't know, folks who produce, direct, write, act, do comedy, make art, make messes, and make meaning out of their lives. You will hear guests lay out how they work, what they're thinking about, where they get stuck, and why they snap out of their comfort zones and into big bold
risky moves. So if you're hungry for honest insights, deep dives into process philosophies and practical tips, plus maybe a little mischief along the way, you're in the right place. For more, visit mischiefpod.com. Hello everyone. This is Mishu and welcome to Mischief and Mastery. Today we're talking to Troy Pryor, who we met about, I don't know, five, six years ago at one of his creative Cypher Labs. Me and a buddy were doing a pitch there. Troy Pryor serves as the vice president of SAG-A.
Chicago and is the founder of Creative Cipher, a portfolio of media entertainment brands including XL Film Fest, Cipher Newsroom, Darkberry Productions, Cipher Live and more. Prior's directorial debut on TV1's Change Agents led to a host of award-winning collaborations across multiple platforms and he was nominated for the Ad Color Innovator of the Year and most recently won a Telly Award for the film and outfit.
So we had lot of fun chatting and we talked about how to build a creative ecosystem, the evolution from being an onscreen talent to producer and being behind the scenes, as well as why festivals can be strong, powerful engines from getting funding to connection to networking to storytelling. And we also get into some finer details on the AMC deal and his roots in community leadership, knowing your purpose and how that can help you move through an industry with clarity and impact.
Detroit has also been working on XL Fest, which will be in Chicago August 14th through the 23rd. XL Fest is an annual film festival and summit that brings together industry professionals, providing an immersive experience for audiences from thought-provoking panels to film showcases. It aims to celebrate the power of storytelling through the captivating art form of cinema. So those tickets will be going on sale soon. Also, if you're available tonight, Thursday, June 10th at 7.30 PM at the AMC River East,
Mishu Hilmy (02:25)
Creative Cipher is presenting Magnolia Pictures new movie, 40 Acres. So if you're interested, I'll also have the link in the show notes and you can try and pick up some tickets. I imagine they're going fast. You can learn more about Troy at creativecypher.org and follow him on Instagram at Creative Cipher as well as XL Film Festival. And I'll add all that to the show notes. All right, here it is. A lovely conversation with Troy and myself.
Yeah, the festival is my main focus at this point because of what it positions us to do in three key areas. Content production, event production and editorial production. Those are three critical areas that support not only our projects, but also give us the resources and relationships to then provide those services to others. But that festival becomes a big shiny object that allows us to do all of them at the same time and fill a gap in the city.
Culturally, creatively, and it's an amazing way to raise resources versus constantly seeking grants and other opportunities to fund projects. The festival becomes an actual vehicle for those other things too.
I imagine you probably have a little bit more synchronicity by having it being a physical location that people of different sort of schools or different, you know, communities come together to meet and chat and there's more spontaneous connections and maybe support versus say the individual level like, all right, I just got to grind out 10 more emails to different grant bodies.
Absolutely, you know, it becomes a different ask at that point. You know, some of the organizations that have supported will all have their own reasons for supporting it. But ultimately, it aggregates everything to one place and it makes it easier for us to distribute it. So we have one product that has multiple touch points. know, one organization may support us for a completely different reason than someone else. But those resources are still all important.
Troy Pryor (04:25)
to then leverage or use for producing content. have crowdfunding companies, camera rental companies, institutions, distribution companies. So they're all coming from different angles and a festival allows us to bring them all together. But to your other point about different groups and populations, I never really, I don't know if I've, generally introduced myself as a filmmaker versus filmmaking being something that I have the, I'm blessed with the opportunity to do.
because I'm more of a community builder. I definitely take on the title of producer, but I know that when we start talking about filmmaking, that's a very specific craft. there are transferable skills that go back and forth, but I really focus on building community. And when you think about
very successful executive producers, producers, filmmakers, whatever the case may be, they have to be good talent scouts, team builders, good leaders and things of that nature. And so those are the transferable skills that I generally talk about or focus on that allow me to aggregate resources or bring people together or connect dots that maybe others didn't see. And I've been able to do that in a very effective way.
Totally. Yeah. I mean, I think it shows over the past probably about 10, 15, 20 years within Chicago and probably throughout the United States, things like your labs and the cipher program, even the cipher newsroom. So I think it's interesting that, you highlight maybe the identity is more community driven and then maybe a subset within that is producing and then far down the ladder might be filmmaking because it does seem like filmmaking is just a small.
piece of storytelling or media or experience or connective tissue that can work for some people, but rather you're more aligned with the more creating a network, creating communities. like what, what kind of draws you toward the consistency of really wanting to just build this, this world or build this network of sort of community and resource pool.
Troy Pryor (06:24)
It's in my blood, literally. I come from a family of clergy and community leaders. We actually just honored my great grandfather yesterday at an event who helped establish different clergy congregations all around the U.S. And religion aside, the ability to bring different people together is a very powerful tool. You know, somebody that can do that could go into politics, they can go into business and other.
aspects. They can be in the creative world like me. I know that I played two sports in college. So I was always a shout out Illinois. I am wearing my line stuff. So I was always in teams. And so you know, a lot of this was very organic. I didn't industry thinking I was going to be doing any of this. When I started in the entertainment industry, I was an extra on a Tyler Perry project my sophomore year of being a linebacker University of Illinois. So I'm not even thinking about
One, I wasn't even thinking about being an actor. And then when I graduated and it was clear sports are not going to be in my professional career, I came back to Chicago. I started my career as a voice actor. And that was probably something that was just looming for a little while because I had been raised as a speaker and you know,
connect with audiences and that led to other opportunities within that agency that had different departments and different divisions. I wound up dropping about 70 pounds. I was about a hundred pounds lighter at that time and I had a full head of hair and signed with a modeling, the modeling agency that was connected to that division, which was elite, elite models. And then, so I found myself in all these spaces and what it allowed me to do was learn the language and be able to connect. you can, you combine my,
the opportunities that I had as a talent in various spaces from theater to on camera to voiceover to print work, billboards and all that stuff. And then coming out of a sports background, which would have just been a few years earlier in college. then growing up in clergy, when I felt that it was almost necessary for me to create my own opportunities, a lot of those skills that
Troy Pryor (08:39)
were either dormant or just hadn't been necessary to use because I was only thinking as a talent caught on pretty quickly because I was able to jump in certain situations and my instincts were sharp. Right. And so as a result, there's a blessing and a burden with that. The blessing is that we all have these skills that or I should say talents that I believe we're born with and we're we have now, whether we hone them.
and turn them into a skill is something totally different. But I do think that we're all born to, we were born with a purpose. Like we're born to, and we can see people at times that just appear to be moving and flowing in a way where it looks like what they're doing is easy, but we know it's not. it's a part of it is that they're, a part of it is that they've honed their craft, but in some cases it's like they're doing what they were born to do.
And, and, you know, I'm thinking of it from, from a standpoint of taking action. even if you think about physical physical or the physicality around it, think about certain athletes, there are certain athletes, the way that they're born, their bodies are predisposed to helping them achieve certain things. It doesn't take anything away from how hard they have to work to actualize those things, but it helps Michael Phelps to have his physique. Right.
to be that tall.
Exactly. helps. His diaphragm, like his wingspan, like that, that certainly helps. Now, if he didn't do anything with that, then he's not going to be the Michael Phelps that we know. He still has to work hard. But there are things. And so when I think about certain opportunities that I've had, the challenge for a lot of us may be if, if you were raised in an area where you didn't really appreciate certain things, you don't really know that you had it. And I know for me,
Troy Pryor (10:29)
I never thought about public speaking. never thought about community building. never took, I took all that stuff for granted. And it wasn't until I was on a few sets and I would see how certain performers were treated. I would see how folks were navigating contracts or talent being paid last. And it just didn't make sense to me because I had come from a space where I had seen people operate as a unit.
to reach a goal together. so I probably, as I joke, like, I probably missed out on a lot of money where I have been a consultant a long time ago. Because you're in certain situations and you're like, I wonder why they do this. It just makes sense that they would do this, this and this. But sometimes you're closest to the answer, furthest from the decision. And in the early parts of my career as a producer, I never even knew I was producing. Somebody had to tell me.
It just I was just doing things that made sense to me. So that's the that's the only drawback of sometimes not really being aware that you have these tools, skill sets that you could be monetizing.
Totally, yeah. It's interesting, think, you know, speaking to predispositions and also value sets, right? Like, for example, kids who become prodigies, it's not necessarily that they're inherently the best, it's that they also come from an environment where that stuff is valued, right? So if community is valued, much like, you know, being born very tall or being born into a community where something is valued, you're more likely to become a prodigious
violin player if your parents are also working at the symphony and they're playing in the background. So yeah, but it's also the double-edged sword of it is it can create a normalcy of it. So then you just don't realize you're doing something that's actually exceptional or very specific to your own abilities that you like lose track and like, this is just me. So it takes that self-awareness to like realize you can either do more with it or even, you know, have the humility to say, no, actually there's a way to value it and have integrity. Cause it doesn't seem like you want to be a consultant and just exploit other
Mishu Hilmy (12:27)
like some other folks might not have any issues with, but it's still good to see your kind of skillset and see how it can like either expand or really bring value to yourself and others. Yeah, was there like a specific turning point or was it more of a slow burn of just realizing like, oh, maybe I don't want to be so much on the talent side. Like I'm just imagining sometimes there's trigger points where you're either on set or after a couple of years, like, oh, I'm done with this. Or was it more of an evolution of.
you know, coming to your own versus just a moment that made you go, actually, I think I'm bigger than this or there's something a little bit bigger than memorizing lines that I'd rather be doing.
It's hard to say that there was one or the other. It was definitely evolution. There were times when I felt more strongly that it was time to do more producing. think as an artist, as someone who enjoys the craft, there was always an excitement. The moment, there's nothing like being on stage. I'll say that. But then I can recall vividly there were times when I was on set and I was just over it.
I was just, know, and it had nothing to with the craft. It had nothing to do with the artistry of it. I just found my mind in other places. Like I was thinking of other things that I could be doing even with that production. Not necessarily like I don't want to be here. It's just that I'm starting to feel really limited in this role on this project when I could offer so much more to this production. And I think over time.
It just got to the point where I even started to tell my agents, I just want to take a break. Like, don't know. I'm going in for another interview. And, some, in some instances, it was as lit, it was as literal as my agent sending me an audition for something. And I knew the folks behind the project. I'm like, they reached out to me last week to consult on it. And I'm like, I remember it was a, it was actually a commercial. This was one of the first times this happened to me.
Troy Pryor (14:24)
It was a commercial. think they called me in to be the principal for it, but I had already been hired as a consultant on the project because the person producing it went to college with me. And I'm like, I don't even know if I want to deal with being a talent. I'm already on the thing. Well, you know, so it's like, I can do what I need to do and just kind of enjoy this other part of the process. also saw the, the, at that time, in some cases, the freedom.
That it allowed me to, move a little bit more and potentially work on multiple projects because I didn't have to work in the same capacity on every problem. Even to this day, there, there are quite a few projects that I'm attached to, but I'm not attached to them in the same capacity. You know, I may be attached in a great capacity, maybe 10 to 20 % of the projects that I'm actually working with the rest of them. I might be a consultant. I might be there for a period of time. I might facilitate something. And as I looked at.
building my portfolio as a producer, I'm like, well, there's no way I don't have the bandwidth to be on every project in the same capacity. And if I'm performing, then throw that out of the window, especially if it's a show that's running. I was on tour for five years. So I'm like, I can remember being backstage working on the early stages of Creative Cipher. And I'm like, there's no way I could scale this company and do this in my current state.
You know, like once you get to a certain point in your career and you can delegate across different teams and you've got a, you got multiple agents and managers and all that PR and totally different conversation. But as a startup, you're wearing too many hats. There's no way.
Yeah, I think it's I mean I relate to that like a degree of self-awareness where after a while of being on set and performing or on stage It's like I would see productions and go I could I could do this better or I could produce this more kindly or more effectively and slowly like peeling away from the the creative like talent side of it I need to be the vehicle of this and being okay with being the person who like brings the materials together because yeah the nice thing about producing or or bringing folks together is
Mishu Hilmy (16:35.662)
You can figure out the level of involvement, right? You don't need to be the key talent or the key artist. You can, you know, pop in or be a supportive consulting role or, know, 20%, 50%, depending on how invested or excited you are in the project. So it does take that like self-awareness to like grow out of that. So yeah, you're on tour for like five years and you're backstage on your cell phone, looking at emails for a production that's happening in two weeks. And
Was it a pretty smooth or natural commitment to go actually, you know what a creative site for this collective, this media brand, this investment portfolio, this will be the thing. And was that like an easy transition to just get into that and build out the sort of the startup elements of it.
You know, man, it's so different than what it was when I started with creative cipher. It's scaled in beautiful ways and in a lot of ways out of necessity. In some cases, things that, that I've been able to do, like with this recent AMC deal is I can laugh about it now, but it was, you know, I was thrown into the fire in some of these situations. A lot of times we find ourselves simply trying to solve a problem and.
And that's it. And you could find a new passion and a new joy in that process or, or, and, or you could find yourself kind of thrust into a situation where people say, you're the person to go to the next time we have to deal with this. And now you're like, wait a minute, I just wanted to help with this one thing. And next thing you know, you, you become the go-to. I know when I was elected, I was the youngest elected board member in the history of SAG after Chicago. And.
A lot of rising black and storytellers would come to me for help with projects from nine to a million or helping. again, at that time it was I didn't even think anything of it. I'm like, I'm not producing. just I memorize the contracts to protect myself as a talent. Right. One day I was set and they were like, what should we do about this or that? And I said, well, this is what this means. And this is what that means. well, haven't eaten in seven hours. That's going be a problem. Yeah. You know, like it's just things. And so I.
Troy Pryor (18:39.862)
I found myself in situations where I realized that the universe was telling me something, you know, and I know at the early stages of Creative Cipher, it was very linear. The organization has different divisions. There were ebbs and flows as well. Like there were times when we look at what we were doing and we knew we had to be in all these spaces, but we didn't have an infrastructure for it.
When it started, it was just about bringing people together, which ultimately was just a networking event. And I remember that I can vividly remember saying, I do not want to create another network, enough networking events. don't mind attending somebody else's. If I do a networking event, it has to play a role in a larger ecosystem. There has to be a larger purpose than just doing a networking event.
but that was like the early stages of Creative Cipher. And what I remember, wow, the first project that there were two projects where I realized if I could merge my ability to bring people together with an ability to identify talent and build a team for production, I got a grant from the city of Chicago for a web series and I was able to pull all the pieces. I'm talking about locate, like just everything.
was able to get it done for that series. And then I had another film that went on to go to ABC and that project was actually brought to me. So one project I came up with the other project. It was another creator from L.A. that wanted to bring something to Chicago. And they reached out to me through a mutual friend and I wound up facilitating the locations wardrobe, like every piece of it. But that only happened because I had already aggregated
this pool of talent and resources. And so I'm like, if I can do more of that, if I make this process of bringing talent together more refined and a networking event is just an entry point. Yeah. But it has to be much more than that because ultimately I want to get back over here to where I'm helping tell stories. But the only way I can tell stories is if I have the resources. The only way I get the resources is if I have something attractive enough to bring people together.
Troy Pryor (21:03.438)
to help bring those things to life. so that was the early, those were the early stages of Creative Cipher.
Yeah, I think, mean, that's like something Solace like even call out to like, oh yeah, I don't mind going to network event, but after a certain point, it's like, I don't want to talk. I'm tired of talking about doing the thing. I prefer to just like do it and let the work speak for itself. Then kind of sweat out like how many connections you can make it at a given event. So like to create an ecosystem or an incubator that the attention might have elements of.
people coming together, but the goal isn't just people coming together to exchange ideas or business cards. It has a purpose and I think that's like a solid model that you have kept building up. I'm curious around, I also think when you're talking about on set and actors talking about the contract, I think the best way to learn any industry is like read as many contracts as possible. Like it demystifies everything. I remember when the Sony hacks dropped, it was like, I'm just gonna read as many of these contracts to understand.
What does a distribution agreement look like? What does an actor's agreement look like at the sort of the, you know, five, 10 million level? And it really makes it clear like these are the rule books of the game that we're playing. And now that I know the rules of the game much more better suited to play it as effectively possible versus like, I don't know. I hope people are going to treat me right. What am I signing? What am I doing?
I being on two or three commercials. And of course we know, yes, we'd love to be on, you know, more legit projects or the old term legit theater, all that, but hey, commercials come with residuals. So I knew I had been on set a few times and were able to catch some things that resulted in significant residual income that multiple people on that set would not have been able to take advantage of. You know, we looked at, you know, I, yeah. So I've seen that in few ways. It's just like, okay, wait a minute.
Troy Pryor (22:51.352)
we're filming three spots today. That's not, you know, that changes a lot. know that we're on set today, but you're filming three different things. So there needs to be three different, you know, deals or that has to be taken to account. So yeah, you got to, one of the things that I became more aware of and even today as the stakes get higher and the rooms start to change, just how,
easy to miss out on opportunities just because of a lack of awareness. Yes. Yeah. And in some cases it's not just that, okay, that person or that entity is trying to get over on you. They are just making a smart decision for them. Yeah. And you have the autonomy to step up and say, I appreciate that. I understand what you are looking for.
But this is what would make it make sense for me. It's hard to do that if you don't know the information. Those conversations don't always have to be antagonistic. totally. And I've seen it work really well. But a guy told me a long time ago, he said, Troy, they got it. They don't expect you to ask for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I also like meditating on like people who work for big companies, companies love spending money like they love spending money that's not their own. So like to also like know that negotiation is like a valid part and it's better off to like lose a relationship if they're like unwilling to make any concessions. Yes, there needs to be like a back and forth. But if it's like
No, this is a contract zero concessions. Then it's a decision one needs to make around like, well, do I want to keep building a relationship with this organization that has no tolerance for a mutual exchange of value? But I also think back to like you speaking to, you know, predispositions, like that's something you're clocking and you were clocking to support either the folks around you or your own general interest versus just focusing on the art only while some people they just want to direct, they just want to write, they just want to act and they don't want to think about the business, but to also be aware of like
Mishu Hilmy (24:51.778)
You had a predisposition to not only think about the whole scene, but to also support those within it. So I think that's like something important as well. I'm curious about the AMC deal. If you're able to talk about it, we can always cut it out if you don't want to, but I'm curious if you have broad brushstrokes, how does that relate to the film festival and kind of what's been the sort of building of that.
Yeah, so we're really excited about this. Last year was the second year of Excel Fest. Excel Fest was born out of our Accelerator program we launched about six years ago. We kind of talked about it at the beginning. There are very early stages of the fest of the Accelerator. We didn't have any money or grants to give out. It was more guidance than it slowly started to grow to a point where we could provide grants. And eventually we wanted to create a showcase opportunity for those filmmakers.
That showcase did rather well, and then that turned into Excel Fest. Last year, when we did Excel Fest, there's a portion of the festival that just focuses on those lab projects, in addition to all the other projects that are submitted and all the shiny bells and whistles and celebs and all that. But there is a significant part of it where if you're coming out of our lab or other labs that we support, you're going to screen at Excel Fest. Well, the Lorenz tape.
The Tate brothers from Chicago, they were our main speakers last year and they fell in love with the concept of the festival because it's a vehicle for them to reinvest in their hometown. so the conversation continued to grow. And I am happy to say they're now stakeholders with the festival really helping to scale. This summer is going to be amazing. You can imagine their Rolodex of Slavery and Talon, they're calling them out to come out. But one of the companies that they previously worked with was AMC and
AMC had been doing these showcases, month-long showcases with film festivals. They would identify five projects from the film festivals, work with those film festivals to then create licensing deals for the storytellers. So we did that this past year. So in year two of Excel Fest, it officially became a marketplace, which is ultimately what we wanted. Those five projects.
Troy Pryor (26:58.21)
did so well that they called us back and said, you know, your, a, your showcase was the best festival showcase that we've ever done because of the curated content. And some of that content matched their original content analytics. they came back and said, we want to now do a two year deal on one of the films. And so this is actually one of the trial by fire situations because originally I said, as a film festival founder, I just want to send you recommendations.
I'm not a sales agent. I'm not their manager. I'm not. I don't broker the deal. That's not, know, when we do, when I, when we do broker things I have facilitated. It's just been because I know both parties, right? It's not like I, I market myself as a sales agent. And a lot of times I was kind of put in that situation to bring things together. So in this case, when I said, well, I'll just connect you directly to the filmmakers. They were like, no, we don't want to go do five different deals. want to do a deal with you and you have the deal with the filmmakers.
So we wound up being put in a situation where we had to have contracts with all the filmmakers now have the rights to shop their projects and a lot of this stuff was just paperwork because they already, you know, they already told us who they wanted. We just had to memorialize everything and we were able to make it work. And so they called us back and said, we want to do the deal. So there's that all started with a 30 day showcase that overperformed.
And now they want to expand that to a two year deal. And they're going to also be a part of this year's festival, sponsoring a panel about distribution. So imagine going into year three of our festival, we have these case studies of what can happen when a filmmaker goes to our lab showcases at our festival and now has a distribution deal. that's that all happened within two years of our festival.
It's really impressive within two or three years of just from when you first started. And then for the, I'm trying to remember AMC, do they also have a digital platform, like an AMC kind of streaming? What's sort of the arrangement within the two years?
Troy Pryor (29:05.206)
be clear AMC theaters is separate from AMC networks. When I'm saying AMC, I'm referring to the actual networks and the streaming platform. Okay. Yes. That's what I thought. All right. Yeah. So, and I actually thought, cause I asked them, cause I thought they were going to open up a new one in Chicago and they said, well, we don't have anything to do with the actual physical theaters. I thought that would be pretty cool. But maybe, maybe something, maybe there's some history behind that because it's just too similar to not have been connected in some way.
But in any event, our deals with AMC networks. So our content was streaming on AMC plus. And then they're subsidiary. So that's our deal with their streaming platform.
That's an exciting pipeline too, right? So are you now sort of acting as a facilitator of within these two years of finding filmmakers and routing their work to the platform?
Yes. So we, we now have the ability to do that throughout the year independent of the festival, but the festival is, is built in a way where they are kind of woven into the experience of identifying content directly from the festival, which is ultimately one of our goals was to make sure the festival as itself was a marketplace. And now because of that, it opened up a door to other streaming platforms that now want to be.
at our festival and identify the next content, the next creators, but even outside of the festival, because we have that direct line now, there may be a project that comes to us outside of a festival submission that we think should be on AMC's radar.
Mishu Hilmy (30:36.5)
With the opportunities for future filmmakers, how are you balancing what might become you being an intermediary or a middle person of finding folks to funnel them into this potential streaming opportunity?
So the way that we've approached pipeline and creators to get on the streamers is one, identifying content that's already submitted to our festival. The curating process is already some level of a quality control process by default. So it helps to streamline or yeah, streamline the amount of projects that we may recommend. Besides that, we also have partnership.
other festivals. I take the same philosophy across the board. Curating Excel Fest is one thing, but I sit on the board at Soho House and help curate support other film festivals as well. So that allows us to not only make recommendations and place content at other festivals, but it also works vice versa because there may be a project that's not on our radar, or maybe it's something that missed the deadline for Excel that one of our partners may have in their
submission pool and they'll put it on our radar. So all of those things work as mechanisms to pipeline content to us. We haven't since the festival launched and even before the festival, we've never had to look for a project. Which is a good problem to have, but it also means that we have to be much, much more selective. So most of the energy goes into quality control. But the concept of I, of
identifying projects is only a challenge because of the quantity versus versus there being a challenge of finding where the problems are going to come from because they're already just flowing to us. actually put a moratorium on our traditional pitch portal because we would get projects pitched to us. And I had to pull that thing off our website because I'm like, you know, I can't even read all this stuff, you know, while we're working on things.
Troy Pryor (32:44.538)
And so we just had to make a conscientious effort to say, listen, out of the X amount of projects that came through our traditional model, we windled that down to like four. And then those four made it to our slate for production. So those are automatically going to be built into the potential for distribution.
Right. Because yeah, you some projects that you're incubating with the intent of creating something brand new out of production. And I'm sure there's also some projects that are just coming in through the film festival and you might know the filmmakers or the team and you're like, wow, this is a really good piece. But overall, it seems like you have a system where you can get a lot of a lot of stuff. So it's not that you're out actively searching for it. It's more like weaning and seeing what are the sort of the projects that we've we've incubated and created versus the projects that we might not have had.
producerial roll on, we think they're actually exceptional stories and also need to be advocated for that could potentially be brought up to get a streaming distribution. What levels or what kind of criteria do you do when it comes to say curating for the film festival? How do you take...
being a gatekeeper and determining quality. Like, do you have a rubric or is more of a gut check? Like, what's quality to you? What's like the, what do you have to like tell your screeners? Like what's quality? Like how do you translate that at scale?
first and foremost, I always tell folks that I don't actually watch most of the project. let people know that there's a team led by NK Gutierrez, who is actually the executive director of Midwest Film Festival and was my co-chair for Black Harvest and runs the film club at Soho House. She has a team of screeners and she has done an amazing rubric to build that out. Most of the creators, want to say 50, probably 75%.
Troy Pryor (34:34.766)
of the storytellers at Excel Fest are black and brown storytellers. The majority of the content that comes through are short films. I would say probably 60, 40 split to a short feature that comes through. And a lot of the projects are a lot easier to program as shorts because she's created these theme blocks of projects. A lot of what we do tends to revolve around health and wellness, mental health. Blue Cross Blue Shield was one of our partners. got a couple of
pretty cool branch to come through. And so we have two, there are three buckets of projects, our lab projects, which are shoe ends because they're, because we already see them. So we know those. have our submitted projects, which NK's team curates as well. And then we have our experiential projects and experiential. When I say that I'm talking about live event. Those are the projects I typically have more of a hands-on approach with because I can create activations around those projects.
crime examples last year, we had the documentary fitted in black. That's a documentary about the Chicago, the white Sox baseball cap, right? And how it impacted pop culture, hip hop culture. So you had notable folks involved in that ice cube to common chance, you know, a lot of that. So when the Sox wanted to screen it, I immediately said, I'm not just screening this project, there has to be an event around.
We're in Chicago. It's like, okay, if I'm doing this in Detroit or LA or something, maybe it's just another project. Yeah, we're in Chicago on the South side. So I want to do an event around. So what we landed on last year, we actually partnered with the Sox and did a custom snapback and gave those out to everybody in audience. And that went so well to people to this day are asking where can they buy them? And I'm like, listen, that wasn't like merch. That was a part of the experience. The documentary was about the
the snapback, the caps, I'm like, why not do something dope like that? So we did that with the special edition XL patch on that and passed those out and that went really well. But those are the types of projects that resonate with me the most because I can create certain conversations, certain moments around those things. There's a project that we're excited about that revolves around mental health. And I know because of some of our wellness brands, wellness partners,
Troy Pryor (36:59.31)
and the different conversations we can curate that the content is one aspect of the moment that I'm curating. And so projects like that tend to stand out. I know that there are a few organizations celebrating milestones this year and a few films celebrating pretty significant anniversaries. Those are projects that are, that are not new, but it gives us an opportunity to create a celebration.
moment. There are two projects in standout that are celebrating 50 year anniversaries. we're both in Chicago. The project that is somewhat of an anchor for this year is Soul Food. And so we are celebrating the creators of that project. We're not even screening the film, but that film launched the careers of a lot of folks. It was a Chicago project, but it provides an opportunity to create
great moment during the festival. And so it's actually a kickoff of some other things that are going to roll out after that. So I personally look at projects that allow me to create experiences around, whereas the other teams focus on more of a traditional film programming.
What draws you toward the activated or the live event experience, community experience versus say, folks sitting idly kind of watching a screening? Like what draws you toward the eventizing or creating an experience for an audience?
Man, you said it in your question. sit in idly. Earlier in the conversation, talked about having been blessed with the opportunity to be in multiple spaces, provided me the skill set to speak the different languages. I just know what it's like to sit in a seat for two hours and just not feel anything. I've told my team, I don't want anybody sitting down longer than 90 minutes.
Troy Pryor (38:59.266)
This don't go to 90 minutes, man. They got to get up and do something regardless of our attention spans that are horrible anyway for variety of reasons. But if something's going to be longer than 90 minutes, then there needs to be a break. There needs to be something else or there needs to be a program where there's a series of things that lay out. And I just don't want that. And I saw so much of that. There's a play on the words with Excel fast being experienced. I've been a part of a lot of festivals and
the programming aspect, curatorial aspect of the content is totally fine. You know, I've been to some amazing festivals and it's like, it's really good films. But once you get up out of your seat, it's like nothing. Like what else is there? And I'm not just talking about having a Q and A afterwards. I think that that's great too. But I have personally seen just a lot of missed opportunities because, know, ultimately when people come to, people come to festivals for different reasons, right?
And I just wanted to make sure similar to what we talked about earlier with having networking events or not, or having events that weren't just networking events. I wanted people to feel empowered that they came to this thing. got access to something and almost like watching a film was icing on the cake. know, that's the early stages of Excel. And even so much to this point, it was kind of like much more of a summit than it was a film festival.
Cause we've been screened a lot of projects year one and year two, we had a lot more, but compared to other festivals, we didn't have as many films showing as we did as we did conversations and connections. And one of the things that I even learned on the other side of it is that you can over-program the panels as well. And so I've been in the situation where I'm like, wait a minute, it's great that we have access to these celebs and all that. It's going to look.
good on social media, it's gonna be a great flyer, but the individual that goes to sit down is like, crap, another panel? I don't wanna get up and move. So I wanted to create moments where it's great that you're watching this piece. There's some type of dialogue around it and then you can activate it. to me, that's how you build community. Otherwise, the show is over, I'm going to my car and then that's it.
Mishu Hilmy (41:17.706)
Yeah, I think that's really like strong and mindful because I think maybe it's my producing side or directing side and even theater work of like the vitality of the experience and it's just like I've been to too many film festivals where it's like the Talkbacks or the Q &A is are like phoned in the people asking the questions are something like the weirdest stilted like slowest question and it's like a snooze or it's cringy and to think of like no no we don't have to like settle for the status quo or the default and that's what I think makes
probably your programming or events even stronger because you're actually thinking about it and designing it. so it's Excel Film Festival, is there an aspiration of it being more similar to a South by Southwest where it's not necessarily about the films, but it grows into being this large summit or experience? Excited to know if it's a misnomer to call it a film festival. Maybe short-term, that's an easy way to bite or buy into it, but is there aspirations of it being?
a larger Chicago kind of experience.
You know, I'm starting to think you have, you jumped in some of our zoom calls.
Well, yeah, you're spot on. And we're very open with this. We have actually transitioned a lot of our language from Excel Film Fest to Excel Fest. We'll see certain things that will still say Excel Film Fest because there is a film fest. But the intent is to create a 10 day experience closer to South by event. So we're in the we're on the we're on the verge of doing that. This year is actually a 10 day experience already. And what people know of Excel Fest is still our focus that
Troy Pryor (42:52.106)
opening weekend that Thursday until Sunday. That's where the majority of the activity that is promoted traditionally happens. But what we did was we took that Monday, the following Monday, all the way until that Saturday. And we partner with other organizations that either had existing programs that were looking for a date to land on. And we took a very South by Southwest model. And that is these are X official Excel events like are stamped on them.
And we co-produce them. That not only gives us the ability to reduce overhead, helps with our marketing, our reach, and it gives us the programming to lay out a 10 day experience. Some of those events are with the city of Chicago. Some of those are going to be premieres where there's just not enough space in that weekend to do events, to do certain things. And they really require their own, their own moment. And so, you know, it allows us to expand that. The other cool thing is that.
The following weekend is the Chicago house music festival. when we were in talks with DKs about a larger partnership just on film programming, when they told me about the house music festival at the same time, a documentary called move your body had just premiered at Sundance about house music. That team had reached out about doing some screenings and I said, I can screen it at Excel, but the very next weekend is the house music festival.
Why not screen it there because you've got a built in audience. So by doing that, it allows us to program that film during the house. But when we did that, said, well, we've got Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, before that starts on Thursday. What are we doing on those three days? We might as well find some type of low lift opportunity, cold branded opportunity. Just so when it's delivered to the community, it's 10 days of programming. But if you know how South by started South by is really.
merger of three different festivals. So that is the trajectory of our festival.
Mishu Hilmy (44:51.232)
Yeah, I I think I think it's exciting, especially like the the serendipity and the synchronicity of like, as you create associative partnerships, right? Like, okay, this might not have been something we initially programmed or even designed. But given that they're looking for a date, it's within the 10 day window, let's pop it on. And so then we can have a bit of cross promotion there, their audience and our audience. It just seems like a great way to really create more and more partnerships. I think I've talked about it with a couple of folks on the podcast where I think there's an obsession of like,
how to do things when I think a better question or a more interesting question is who to partner with versus like how to do it. And I think you're really sort of exemplifying that. I'm curious, like how are you finding like balance? Like what's like either your degree of balance when it comes to say like all these things, these relationships, these emails, these projects, these initiatives, events, like what's your self care, like what are you doing?
keep a spreadsheet. but I, it took me some time, but we, we built up teams for each of these areas. And, know, I mentioned earlier, I have a family member going through something tonight, we want the screening. So I was able to reach out to the whole team, let them know, listen, I may not be able to speak and somebody jump in.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Troy Pryor (46:07.022)
I don't ever want to make it seem like, I'm doing all this stuff by myself. I'm right. It's impossible. I will say I wear a lot of the hats and sometimes it does feel like that. But the reality is that the level of success that we want and we all talk about is unachievable to do it by itself. So there are others in position. And I have over, I want to say over the last maybe just two years, been able to start delegating and hiring and bringing other folks in.
Even with the venues, man, I can think about the earlier venues that Creative Cipher produced events in, and even some with Excel, needing to build things out versus our space this year, which is the Rubenstein Forum that's designed for what we need it for. And I'm like, I tell my team, like, you all don't understand.
The fact that I don't have to set up chairs by itself. All this other stuff is icing for me. You know, we built out LED walls and places that only had, you know, they didn't have the statics that we wanted. It's just like parking and all these other things that you got to think about. you know, bringing in a production team to manage stuff where I can just approve things now versus I've got to make every phone call, book flights. Year one.
There was a mini hurricane that exists that was coming to LA and we were rebooking people's flights because somebody wants to fly out early. Meanwhile, I'm emceeing and I'm reading emails and then making sure that this panel doesn't go over five minutes because this group has to go and if they show up on time and their car picked them up. my goodness, did the food, do we have the, is there a green room set up or, you know, are we out of, out of waters? You know, it's just, it's a lot.
How did you, you said maybe in the past two years it's gotten better, but how did you, how have you developed the skill of asking for help, the trust to delegate? Like how have you practiced that ability to have the skill of like, I'm going to come cap in hand or just ask for help, whether it's an email or a question, like was that a challenging thing for you or is it a skill you've developed? Just curious how you went about it or have been going about it.
Troy Pryor (48:17.358)
So there is a challenge when you are used to wearing so many hats. One of my challenges to this day is still knowing how to step back in certain scenarios. And you don't want to be in a situation where you're forced to take a step back, but that's also happened too. So there has been a challenge when you're so used to doing it. And it's not always that for me, like I want to do all those things.
you just get into a habit. Brain is kind of wired to seeing a problem and just going after it and solving it. Versus saying, well, let me take a step back. Who can I call for this? You're just ready to go. You're just wired to go. As far as identifying talent, we do year round programs. I sit on a bunch of boards and I collaborate all the time. So similar to how I don't have to search for content.
It's like the resources and the people have always been around. It's just been a matter of time. It's been a matter of, this, is this the opportunity for that person that does this really well to take it over, providing autonomy, empowering others. In some cases, it's as simple as having a budget. In some cases, it's a matter of creating stakeholder opportunities, like what Lin-Mel Miranda did with Hamilton at the beginning.
All the folks that were part of that project to my knowledge or significant amount of them had some type of equity in that project, creating moments like that. And I always ask the question, like, how does this make sense for you? Like, how can I support you? And I also try to be very upfront. Again, being on these projects where you know what it's like to have to sit around and wait for a paycheck or wait for somebody, should like waiting for stuff. I'd rather tell folks upfront.
This is grassroots. There's a lot of sweat equity. If the answer is no, or you have to pass on this, so be it. I respect that. Then we'll find another opportunity. Those are ways that approach has allowed me to create pathways for others. The other thing is that, you know, not to toot my own horn, but we realized that we had something special when we saw the reception.
Troy Pryor (50:27.822)
When we saw how people were treating it, others saw that and wanted to be a part of that. So I can vividly remember telling my team after a year and I reinforced it last year. said, I'm never selling Excel Fest again. Never selling it. I'm not selling to brands. I'm not selling to the city. I'm not selling it to folks to be a part of. I'm just going to say, here's what it is. Here's what it's done. You know, things like those and the AMC deal, like we have the data. Right.
You know, and if, if it doesn't make sense for someone or if it's not a line, that's totally fine, but we're not selling it. And so with that in mind, it has made it a lot more manageable to fit the talent needed because they see it too.
Yeah, thank you for sharing. think there's a degree of push and pull, right? Selling is kind of pushing versus trusting. You have the body of work that pulls people in and being like, want people who are pulled in, who are genuine and interested rather than like you might have partnerships that you sold or pushed a little too hard on. And they end up biting you in the ass because it's just not not the right buy. And then as for sort of like it seemed like I heard like that sense of like timing and setting expectations up, you can set expectations with the person, which is, I think, helpful.
Is this the right time to reach out and ask for this person's help? Set the expectations of whether it's grassroots or the pay structure or whatever. then lastly, it's like trusting that their intentions, their goals may align with the project. And if it doesn't align, you can only hope that they say yes. And if it does align, that their adults and if they understand what the expectations are, whether it's a low pay rate or it might take years to get that equity to kind of return on itself.
the trust they can make that decision. I think the only last question I have is like, how are you actively thinking about subverting expectations? And how are you actively thinking about taking risks within your endeavors?
Troy Pryor (52:22.744)
think it's all a risk. So some of it is when I think about the best way to answer actively thinking about taking a risk, I think that's just the nature of it. That's the nature of it. think what I tend to focus on more is the first part of that is the management of expectation is that it is this. It is a risk. There is a risk that no one buys tickets. There is a risk.
that the DCP doesn't work right. Think like all of this is a risk. And I would much rather be in a room of others that understand that versus someone saying, hey, I thought this thing was supposed to work perfectly. Like, no, dude, like there's our goal is to mitigate the risk. It's not to pretend that there aren't going to be risk. Because even when you do all of that, I do. Last year, we had an outdoor event that got
totally rained on in a way where I wish we were recording that part. It was like unbelievable. It was the only day there was an outdoor event and I felt a drop and I just said, here we go. What is this going to turn into? Sure enough, I talked to the University of Chicago because our festival's in art university and they say, know, as soon as we see lightning, we got to shut it down. So I immediately got on the mic and just informed people
of the status. That is, know, ladies and gentlemen, we felt some raindrops. We're good right now, but we just want to let you know, it starts to lighten. If there's lightning, we're going to have to move it inside. That type of thing. And, you know, I would just rather give people the heads up, but it came down. The sky fell. I'm like,
I was so burnt out. had moved chairs from inside to outside. We completely rebuilt it out there and it was for nothing, you know, but we got our drone shots earlier. So we were able to use it. Like if you look at our recap video from last year, there's an outdoor drone shot. That area was the earlier part of that moment. I want to say within maybe 45 minutes of that, the sky fell apart. I just kept thinking to myself while we were pushing chairs, like, hey, we got our drone shot.
Mishu Hilmy (54:40.322)
Yeah, you got it. I think maybe this is maybe this is the last question, more of big question. And you don't have to answer if you don't want to. But like, given at least my projection of really strong community building and ambitious projects underway in this, you know, decade long, sort of experience, you've been developing creative cipher and your your brand platforms like what what is like
the end game or what is enough? What like have you been thinking about that? Have you defined that for yourself? What does success look like and like what's enough?
As it relates to Excel Fest, can tell you right now, success for me is passing the torch to someone else to run. Yeah, that is it. I am. I'm very open and honest with my team and others because I've never gotten this to run a film festival. That was never it. It was never it anyway. A lot of what people are experiencing with Excel Fest or concept that I pitched to other institutions that didn't see the value. We did it ourselves.
It grew the first year with Robin Townsend was a test run. Second year with the Tates, who are under some more traction. And I've told our team, said, have a five year plan with this first three years is to make sure this is a commercially viable tourism attraction. We're on track for that. Year four and five is the session plan. This is me looking at someone else that specifically wants to focus on running a film festival and onboarding them. But while I look at the macro, like the entire ecosystem and that is that.
The festival plays a role in the bigger picture of identifying talent, right? Content that we can do things with because ultimately I would say, Hey, you got to shoot for the stars, man. It's the Oprah effect. It's like that, that the ability that it doesn't matter whether it's a film project, TV project, a book, a chair, coffee table, a vending machine. I'm just random stuff right now. When, when that stamp is on it is more valuable, but it takes some time.
Troy Pryor (56:35.288)
to build it up to where your name alone adds that. To me, that's the end game is being able to just put a name on something and it immediately add value.
Well, Troy, thank you so much for sharing and talking. is so much fun.
Alright thanks for having me, I appreciate
Mishu Hilmy (56:58.754)
Before sending you off with a little creative prompt, I just wanted to say thank you for listening to Mischief and Mastery. If you enjoyed this show, please rate it and leave a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. Your support does mean a lot. Until next time, keep taking care of yourself, your lightness, curiosity, and sense of play. And now for a little Mischief motivation.
Here it is a little creative prompt. When asked three angles, pick a single creative project you've been working on and then write out three different requests. You could make two, three different types of people. For example, a friend, a stranger, a musician, a funder, a filmmaker, a writer, whatever, and tailor each request, each pitch to what they might be uniquely able to contribute and be interested in. Practice, practice, practice.
making requests. So that's it. One request for three different people and see how they can contribute. Give it a shot. Alrighty. Have a good one.