#39 - Ashley Koff RD

Ashley Koff, RD is Maine based, registered dietician who has seen it all. Ashley started on the other side of the divide with respect to holistic nutrition, in the big Food sales and marketing world. After a suspicious encounter with a goat-milk regimen, Ashley came to the realization that there must be a better way. On this episode, Mark and Ashley dive into this as well as her personal encounters with Bristol Bay and why Bristol Bay sockeye salmon is in fact, the world's perfect food.

Check out more about Ashley and her work:

• Instagram: @ashleykoffapproved

Save What You Love with Mark Titus:⁣

Edited: Patrick Troll⁣

Music: Whiskey Class⁣

Instagram: @savewhatyoulovepodcast

Website: savewhatyoulove.evaswild.com

Support wild salmon at evaswild.com

Creators & Guests

Host

Mark Titus

Mark Titus is the creator of Eva’s Wild and director of the award winning films, The Breach and The Wild. He’s currently working on a third film in his salmon trilogy, The Turn. In early 2021, Mark launched his podcast, Save What You Love, interviewing exceptional people devoting their lives in ways big and small to the protection of things they love. Through his storytelling, Mark Titus carries the message that humanity has an inherent need for wilderness and to fulfill that need we have a calling to protect wild places and wild things.

Guest

Ashley Koff RD

Ashley Koff RD is a 20+ year award- winning personalized nutrition expert. Koff’s a triple threat as a practitioner, consultant and speaker helping thousands get and stay healthy powered by better nutrition. Today, as the founder of The Better Nutrition Program, Koff leads a team developing cutting- edge personalized nutrition tools and programs to optimize health.

What is Save What You Love with Mark Titus?

Wild salmon give their very lives so that life itself can continue. They are the inspiration for each episode asking change-makers in this world what they are doing to save the things they love most. Join filmmaker, Mark Titus as we connect with extraordinary humans saving what they love through radical compassion and meaningful action. Visit evaswild.com for more information.

00:00:00:07 - 00:00:22:17
Mark Titus
Welcome to the Save What You Love podcast. I'm your host, Mark Titus. Well, here we are in 2023. Welcome. It's good to be back. It's good to have a chance to connect with you here. Today, we get to sit down with Ashley Koff, who is a registered dietitian who lives in Maine and has made it her mission to make better nutrition a way of life for everybody.

00:00:22:19 - 00:00:50:17
Mark Titus
Ashley comes from a background in advertising and creating brands and therefore knows where all the bodies are buried and knows all the B.S. and is able to speak to that beautifully. Today, she talks about her experience in Bristol Bay and why Bristol Bay wild sockeye salmon is an extremely healthy choice for us all as we get moving into the new year here.

00:00:50:19 - 00:01:17:16
Mark Titus
She's been featured in the Huffington Post on good morning America. E. News o. The Oprah Magazine, Redbook, Natural Health, The Today Show, and many others. And Ashley is a tremendous voice, not only for feeling good, but also for doing what's right for the planet. And it was a real pleasure to speak with her today. If you're liking the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts and leave a review.

00:01:17:18 - 00:01:24:20
Mark Titus
It really helps our visibility. Okay, So without further ado, Ashley Koff.

00:01:24:22 - 00:02:00:22
Music
How do you save what you love?
When the world is burning down?
How do you save what you love?
When pushes come to shove.
How do you say what you love?
When things are upside down.
How do you say what you love?
When times are getting tough.

00:02:01:00 - 00:02:04:09
Mark Titus
Ashley Koff. Where are you joining us from today? Welcome.

00:02:04:10 - 00:02:13:09
Ashley Koff
Thank you so much. I'm in Camden, Maine. So MidCoast, Maine, for anyone who is trying to find me on a map. Yes. And it is a pleasure to be here.

00:02:13:10 - 00:02:36:15
Mark Titus
It's great. Last time we saw each other was in Washington, D.C., and I think it was in 2015, we had a screening of my film The Breach. And you were speaking, and it was perfect. It was really kind of magical. And strangely enough, at that time, there was a lot going on with the Pebble Mine. And we we knew that Bristol Bay had some protections afforded to it.

00:02:36:17 - 00:02:54:21
Mark Titus
And this incredible self-generating food source looked like it was in protection. And here we are. It's years later and we a week out from this really great news for Bristol Bay again. And how did you receive the news and where were you and what were you doing when you when you heard about it?

00:02:55:02 - 00:03:19:00
Ashley Koff
Yeah, well, it probably goes back to what's a dietician doing caring about Bristol Bay. And to be fair, I think all dietitians I think all Americans should care about Bristol Bay. And I think all people of the world should care about Bristol Bay. But I have a very personal connection. And my younger brother is a fly fishing guide who ended up going up to Alaska.

00:03:19:00 - 00:03:40:10
Ashley Koff
He's been guiding in Alaska for, gosh, over 15 years. And with an entity that was up there that is on this tiny little, you know, Floatplane Inn Lodge, that's incredible. And so I first went to visit him there and just fell in love. I was like, this is just magical and so fun to fish. And the salmon was obviously an incredible, significant part.

00:03:40:10 - 00:04:01:09
Ashley Koff
But what was also really we had this just great experience. We went hiking and then, you know, we'd go to areas where you'd see the bears and you'd see it just the wildlife, and you understood how everything there is so interdependent. And for me, that was what really one of the things that I took away. I mean, for me, my first trip to Alaska was literally life changing.

00:04:01:09 - 00:04:30:04
Ashley Koff
I was like, okay, I understand what what I've been doing in terms of wanting to help people make better food choices. But what we need to protect is really valuable. So I ended up going up there not to make a long story long, but I'll share a little of it. I ended up going back up because it was working with a company that had just decided to source their fish oil from wild salmon and were actually doing it very sustainable using the heads of the wild salmon that were otherwise discarded and could actually be a pollution.

00:04:30:06 - 00:04:48:17
Ashley Koff
If you discard a ton of those heads because you know the bears eat the heads. And so I learned that whole piece and and when I went up on that trip, they actually had us. It was very cool because I was there with Mariel Hemingway and she caught a fish. And, you know, that was just incredible. And but they also had introduced us, took us around to communities.

00:04:48:18 - 00:05:21:17
Ashley Koff
I got to see a couple of the community health centers, and that was profound for me as a practitioner in terms of that. And I also got to interact with, you know, people of all ages and really understand. And then I also went to the facilities that are managing. I forgot the name of it, but the center where they're managing the flow of the salmon and just saw how thoughtful, how unpolitical any of this was, but just how they were organizing and doing such a brilliant job.

00:05:21:17 - 00:05:37:20
Ashley Koff
And so it really became just such a part of a mission. And at that time we actually were able to fly in to Pebble, and I saw what they were, what they were already doing, and then what they were proposing to do. And that got me really like I got to go try to make a difference in that space.

00:05:37:20 - 00:06:21:11
Ashley Koff
So through that, through entities like Trout Unlimited colleagues like Chef Rick Moonen, you know, we've got just blocked out of my head. Paul, I was trying to think of over his name. Other of horror fish. Paul Greenberg But we got to go with all of these incredible people, went up there and did the little bit that we could with our platforms and watched this super magical again, not political at all, which was so nice to be a part of just magical collaboration of people who are oftentimes and such different sides of issues come together and also in recognition because we weren't Alaskans come together and do what we could in the Lower 48, but

00:06:21:11 - 00:06:43:12
Ashley Koff
also say, Hey, we're just here to tell you we got your back, you guys, you know, like on that part. So where that took me in 2015 was really proud and excited and inspired. And then that led to just gut like my my gut wrenching, heart wrenching, you know, for all of you and for others to see that that was going to be pulled back in.

00:06:43:12 - 00:07:05:14
Ashley Koff
A big part of that was it felt like we were compromising, we were compromising on America and Americans and the United States and Alaskans for the benefit of these other countries and in particular for business. Well, you know, and it just was like we could so stop, you know, this. So where I am today is just over the moon.

00:07:05:16 - 00:07:33:23
Ashley Koff
I think it's a little bit like I'm over the moon ish. Like I like I need to know that this is really done. And anything that is tied into our government and has, for whatever reason, become political, always concerns me. That's legitimately protected. So one of the things that I think is really important for people to take away is that we continue to focus on protecting this and also other wildlife that are as valuable, you know.

00:07:33:23 - 00:07:38:09
Ashley Koff
So I think that to me is really important.

00:07:38:11 - 00:08:07:06
Mark Titus
Okay. Thanks for listening, audience. That wraps her up. That was a wonderful, wonderful. No, that was brilliant. I had no idea you went so deep into Bristol Bay, Laura. And what a perfect timing for leading into the work that you do. But having this really complete understanding of place by going there and we're going to cross streams with this more than once during this conversation.

00:08:07:06 - 00:08:35:10
Mark Titus
But that is absolutely at the core of the work we're trying to do, both as filmmakers and as food providers with our company. Ava's Wild and Storytellers and ultimately getting people to that place. I think you've just illustrated beautifully why experience is what absolutely imprints and then ultimately is passed on down to future generations. So we're going to come back to a bunch of this for now.

00:08:35:10 - 00:08:45:17
Mark Titus
I want to start at the beginning. I would love to know how. Just tell us your story and how how did you get into this really important work that you do?

00:08:45:19 - 00:09:13:05
Ashley Koff
Thank you. And for the on so many fronts. And I'm just so excited about what you guys do. I mean, from the moment we met, I'm I'm just this is this is really great to have these stories told in a way that can be impactful to people. So I am a kid from Ohio. I was born in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and moved to Columbus, Ohio, So I'm a confused Big Ten fan, but I'm a kid from Ohio primarily who grew up in Columbus.

00:09:13:05 - 00:09:46:04
Ashley Koff
Ohio is is really the test market for a lot of fast food. You know, Wendy's and others all being there. And food quality was never anything that was on my radar at all. And I grew up in a medical families. My dad's a surgeon, a pediatric surgeon, and a lot of things were kind of all coming together to have had have me go down a path of not really being in tune with any connection to how our food is created and what that means for our planet.

00:09:46:04 - 00:10:10:04
Ashley Koff
And, you know, any of these pieces, and that's not anyone's fault or judgment. It was just literally the way that I was raised, surprisingly, like I would go to farms and milk cows and, you know, for camp in the summer and ride horses and things like that. So I had a lot of outdoor exposure, but not tied to food source and certainly not tied to the quality of and protection of quality of a food source.

00:10:10:05 - 00:10:37:22
Ashley Koff
And I wanted to be Angela Bower from Who's the Boss. I'm a little bit older and that TV show, and I thought she was fabulous and I really loved how she went and did this advertising job. And so I wanted to go do that and that is what I ended up going and doing. But along the way, I was, you know, in my high school and even in middle school, I felt like I was there were times where I felt I was heavier, overweight, I was battling a belly.

00:10:38:00 - 00:10:57:05
Ashley Koff
There were times where other people let me know I was overweight, you know, and I dealt with, you know, sort of those pieces. And I tried a lot of dieting and it seemed to work really good for other people, and it didn't work great for me. And that failure mindset of, you know, like, I'm pretty smart, I can do things if I put my mind to them, etc..

00:10:57:05 - 00:11:19:20
Ashley Koff
But when it when you try something and it doesn't work for you and it works for other people, you just feel like there's something wrong with you or you're not good at it. So I pretty much saw myself as a diet failure going to college, and then I was introduced to a whole world in college of people who were really good at diets, but things that I had never seen before severe eating disorders, drugs, you know, different things.

00:11:19:20 - 00:11:49:06
Ashley Koff
And over exercising and just, you know, all of these things. And I tried some of those. And again, what fortunately it was not good at those and didn't progress into some of those areas. And so my own personal experience was of just being really kind of always bothered by I was so successful in many areas of my life, but I wasn't successful in my what at the time I only saw as appearance related in my twenties, I pursued.

00:11:49:06 - 00:12:13:02
Ashley Koff
So I went to work in advertising. I sold sugared cereals to America. My client was Kellogg's. I helped make Smart Start and, you know, sell a Raisin Bran Crunch. And I also sold, you know, De Beers, Diamond eyes and hair color and, you know, things that were not necessarily doing better in people's lives. And at the same time, I was a hot mess as a person.

00:12:13:02 - 00:12:35:03
Ashley Koff
I was really falling apart. I had horrible anxiety, panic attacks. I had for the first time in my life, I had some skin issues. I had I had tried. So at this point I was avoiding almost all food. I was a vegan macrobiotic. I went to yoga twice a day. I had almost no social. I like just really kind of crumbling within.

00:12:35:05 - 00:12:54:01
Ashley Koff
And I went to the regular medical system and they were basically like, Well, there's nothing wrong with you. Like, we've checked you out, no problems. And then their comment, what like one doctor was like, Well, you might have a mental problem, so maybe you need to go see a therapist. I went to see a therapist who was totally right that it was all my parent's problem, you know, that kind of thing.

00:12:54:03 - 00:13:16:20
Ashley Koff
And we didn't quite get anywhere. And I unfortunately or fortunately my career with would result from it. And in doing yoga, I had made a friend who was a healer. She didn't have any like traditional background, but she had a feeling that she could help me and she offered to test my blood and let me know what was going on.

00:13:16:20 - 00:13:34:01
Ashley Koff
I think she pricked my finger and took my blood and my $300, which I did not have at the time, and put it under a Fisher-Price microscope. And she told me that I had a worm. And then she started to ask me about what was life like at age 14 and 15 and what things. You know, it was all my game for me and all of this.

00:13:34:01 - 00:13:52:07
Ashley Koff
Right on and on. And I promise I'll get quick from here. But this is important because I I'm going to share with you. So her recommendation was, in order to get rid of this worm, I had to do a seven day goat's milk only cleanse. And so one day I'm like, Yup, absolutely. It's goat's milk, the perfect food.

00:13:52:07 - 00:14:07:20
Ashley Koff
It'll kill off the worm. You can kill it off in just 15 days. You'll actually see it passing. You'll see clumps of whitish gray worm coming out of you. Well, if you've ever only drank milk for a couple of days, the only thing that comes out of you is like white clumps, you know? And that part. So she was right.

00:14:07:22 - 00:14:26:15
Ashley Koff
But what was super interesting on that part was I went ahead and did it and to the tune of like taking goat's milk to a bar in Lower Manhattan for my friend's birthday party and telling the bartender to make it look like I was drinking a white Russian because I didn't want anyone to think I was weird. And he's like, But you're crazy.

00:14:26:15 - 00:14:46:11
Ashley Koff
I was like, I know I'm crazy, but can you just do this? I'm on this. Go to my cleanse, right? Yeah. So the funny part was I felt amazing on the goat's milk cleanse. It was the first time, like, my system felt great, you know? I was like, okay, she's on to something. But, you know, two days later, after the goat's milk cleanse, I am just back to, like, you know, having like a six month pregnancy belly when I eat things and like all of this other stuff.

00:14:46:13 - 00:15:15:16
Ashley Koff
So that got me. I was like, screw it, I'm going to be a fun 21 year old or whatever age I was. I'm going to drink alcohol, I'm going to do whatever, and I give up. And I was in a bar telling the story, kind of like a stand up comedian. And I ended up literally one of the bar guests that was listening to this and crying with me was a gastroenterologist, and she know really rare at that time to have a female gastroenterologist was also talking about the kind of work that she does was more what she called integrative.

00:15:15:16 - 00:15:32:14
Ashley Koff
And I had no idea I'd never learned about that. And she just actually asked me a couple of questions. She's like, Hey, by any chance, did you ever take antibiotics as a kid? I was like, my gosh, I freebase them. Like I was given them all the time because I had ear infections and throat infections, and my dad would just be like, Before you ruin another vacation, take it prophylactically, you know, all of that stuff.

00:15:32:16 - 00:16:01:19
Ashley Koff
And she asked me a series of other questions, and that proceeded over the course of the next six months for me to work on with in collaboration with her with healing my digestion. And she also told me that it wasn't really anything that I was eating because everything that I was eating was my system was so irritated. It was just, you know, etc. And that process, I was like, legitimately, I need to make sure that everyone in America A never goes on a goat's milk cleanse and be like has access to this information.

00:16:01:19 - 00:16:20:14
Ashley Koff
And I'm like, and I'm really good at marketing and selling stuff. So like, I want to learn how to do this and get it out there to people. So that's how I ultimately became a dietitian. And through my work there, one of the most profound things Fly fishing has played a very key role in my life, most profound, not with my brother, but with one of his friends.

00:16:20:18 - 00:16:36:23
Ashley Koff
I'm out fly fishing. This is 100 years later, probably five. And I'm a dietitian and he's embarrassed. You know, you're on a typical out with a guide and it's like a PBJ and Cheetos and a diet soda or something. And no disrespect, you and a lot of guys are doing phenomenal with their food, but a lot of times it was that kind of thing.

00:16:37:01 - 00:16:51:21
Ashley Koff
And he actually at that moment, his wife had made me a salad, that he served me in a ceramic bowl. And he says to me, he's got some bison with them. And he said, Now, I think you don't eat meat, but I have this bison. And we actually killed it and our whole family shares in it. And I cooked it.

00:16:51:21 - 00:17:13:16
Ashley Koff
And it's this is like, ah, I have this bar. But you know, we don't eat this because it's got this soy protein isolate in there. And we ended up for the rest of the day while we were fishing, having this entire conversation about what's wrong with nutrition and I ended up coining the term quality Korean. And from that day forward I said I need to be a quality and I encourage other people to be a quality.

00:17:13:16 - 00:17:34:16
Ashley Koff
And and I'm going to really make this my mission, which led me to go down a path of needing to understand how is the quality, how what's being done to our food or our food supply or ingredients so that I can distinguish quality. And one of the key pieces for me was to distinguish that farmed salmon and wild salmon are just two separate beasts.

00:17:34:16 - 00:17:52:05
Ashley Koff
And so there's there may be quality issues in wild salmon. And we want to look at, you know, where it's sourced from. And these and there's know we're here, we've got farmed salmon, so it's played out in all these really interesting ways. But that was how it ultimately and the fish oil products brought me back to learning about Bristol Bay and kind of coming in in that space.

00:17:52:07 - 00:18:25:11
Ashley Koff
So thanks for allowing me to go down memory lane there. I hope I haven't bored everyone, but I bet you all have had a rock bottom moment at different times like that because after thousands of patients I always say to them, I bet my rock bottom was worse than yours. And then also, it's so valuable to have those moments where it triggers in you the ability that you may need to say no thank you to some of them, the medical, what the medical system is offering, and look for someone else who can help support you in your health journey on that part.

00:18:25:13 - 00:18:28:08
Mark Titus
Who knew? It's all about the goats.

00:18:28:10 - 00:18:33:01
Ashley Koff
About the goats. Now the perfect food. I will never, ever have goat's milk. Yeah. Yeah.

00:18:33:01 - 00:18:44:02
Mark Titus
Anyway, I'm so. I'm so glad you went there. And is this is the kind of quality entertainment you can't just make up. This is fantastic. It's.

00:18:44:04 - 00:18:46:10
Ashley Koff
That's right.

00:18:46:12 - 00:19:11:07
Mark Titus
And look, you know, food first. What a what a wonderful revelation to wake up and discover, truly awaken and discover your vocation. And, you know, I for one, if you've been following along with this podcast or any of my work, you know that I certainly hit a rock bottom, you know, as as a as an addict and am a man in recovery now.

00:19:11:07 - 00:19:36:16
Mark Titus
And and, you know, it is it's weird, I say many times that it's the best thing that ever happened to me. And it was a shitty thing to go through. It was a terrible, terrible tumble underwater and to find and scratch and claw for my bottom. But out of that really came my life's work and that's what I'm hearing from you to it.

00:19:36:16 - 00:19:59:01
Mark Titus
You were you hit a place where you needed to find a better way and as I'm hearing, a quality Korean is looking into certainly not the quantity and just a way to fill people's bellies, but like a way to get better through food. Is that a fairly accurate assessment?

00:19:59:02 - 00:20:25:23
Ashley Koff
Absolutely. And I think it's one of the. So first of all, I'm so proud of you. I think that that is that it's an everyday thing. And I think for all of us, you know, we all have things that is an everyday thing. But for an addict that the profound impact that that has and the ability to turn around and say, hey, I want to appreciate it, have grace and give myself grace and have gratitude for what that was in my life.

00:20:25:23 - 00:20:37:06
Ashley Koff
To now be able to have it move me forward is is really powerful. And I know that extends to the people in your life and all of those pieces. There's a lot more to it.

00:20:37:08 - 00:20:37:17
Mark Titus
Quality.

00:20:37:19 - 00:21:13:20
Ashley Koff
Quality in our choices is something that and I want to be really clear here because I just talked about a lot of things. I recognize that especially in the United States and this is Alaska, especially access to quality from an affordability standpoint and just sheer access is completely challenging and inappropriately imbalanced, etc.. And I do a lot of I've tried to do a lot of work in there, and I try to support a lot of people in that in making creating change that way.

00:21:13:22 - 00:21:36:17
Ashley Koff
So I don't want to say, hey, the solution to health is better quality. And by the way, you should have wild salmon all the time and everything should be organic. It's not fair because it's not an acceptable chat. I would never tell somebody to do something that they can't outright do. What I do think we can do and what quality for me help me later refine as my company is now the acronym for my company.

00:21:36:17 - 00:22:03:16
Ashley Koff
The Better Nutrition Program is BNP and it stands for Better Not Perfect. And what quality and for me really helped me move into is that is a guiding principle, better not perfect it-I operate my life. And from a nutrition standpoint, when we understand that there is no perfect health, there is one right the second before we're born and the second that we, you know, from the moment we leave this earth, that's the only place where perfection is happening.

00:22:03:16 - 00:22:37:13
Ashley Koff
And the rest of the time the body's in a constant struggle. And our challenge and our opportunity for better health, which is what we all want and want to be able to enjoy, really comes from being able to, in moments, identify better choices and be able to make them more frequently. So what quality and quality? And to me it helps me give a lens for just all the kookiness that is marketed from from a nutrition standpoint, especially again in the in the United States, it gives me the ability to say to someone, hey, what's a doable, better choice for you right now?

00:22:37:13 - 00:23:09:09
Ashley Koff
Or to shine a light on. Here are some better choices. What feels doable for you? And to me, I think that that's the empowering nature of what we can do and how that can change lives is hopefully reducing stress around a lot of of sort of right answers that exist out there that are based on completely faulty premises of this notion of perfection or one size fits all or even multiple sizes fit any, you know, in that capacity.

00:23:09:09 - 00:23:13:14
Ashley Koff
So hope that answers your question. But that that is my thought process there.

00:23:13:16 - 00:23:45:07
Mark Titus
And it's great and we have a similar phrase in the recovery community progress not perfection. It's when one day at a time, one step at a time. And I love everything you're saying here about meeting people where they are. And I'd love to get your take on the most current take on obesity and what we're hearing about young people and about how nutritious and factors into that.

00:23:45:09 - 00:24:02:08
Mark Titus
And it's, you know, what we're hearing now is that take more drugs to, you know, curb this this epidemic of childhood obesity. And this is obviously controversial. And you know what? What's your current assessment of that from a nutritional background?

00:24:02:08 - 00:24:37:12
Ashley Koff
Yeah, and it's so psychosocial. So as I shared with you all my journey, I was never clinically obese. But I think dealing with weight issues in any gender or however one identifies early on in life has profound impact on your development, just as dealing with any issues, you know? So if you're somebody who has skin issues, if you have something visible, but there's a there's a there's sort of a special torment or side to weight that people feel like it's just something you should be able to fix.

00:24:37:12 - 00:25:23:14
Ashley Koff
So I think the most important thing for us to understand is that weight is not and I don't even like obesity as a I appreciate it as a diagnosis, but as a condition because what we're it's an end product. So the body has all these functions, metabolic function. And so obesity is a byproduct of metabolic dysfunction and if we don't look under the hood and start to understand how that dysfunction is occurring and why that dysfunction is occurring and start to fix the different pieces, then having somebody get injections to improve insulin response or reduce appetite or any of the myriad of things that that are good tools in a toolbox.

00:25:23:14 - 00:25:51:13
Ashley Koff
Potentially they're missing the bigger picture. And what we're doing is we're not helping somebody be healthier later on in life or, you know, at any point. Now, a big part of that is also early trauma. I'm not an expert on this, so it's stuff that I like, whether it's Gabor, Matty or, you know, some other really impactful people who I've learned from and, you know, on that piece.

00:25:51:13 - 00:26:22:23
Ashley Koff
But my understanding is from brain development and how our body processes trauma and how our brain experiences it is that early in life we don't have the ability for the body to move on. We move away from those traumas, you know, the way that we develop once, once our brain is fully developed. So dismissing the role of trauma is so critical because it actually has physical impact and implications in the body as it relates to that.

00:26:22:23 - 00:26:49:23
Ashley Koff
So one of the things I bring all that up because to treat obesity as a nutrition problem and especially as a too much of nutrition problem is totally flawed. So there definitely is a role for too little of like if you're not getting the right enough of the nutrients that your body needs in forms that it can use, or if it's overwhelmed by things that are irritating or disruptive to its efforts.

00:26:50:01 - 00:27:24:19
Ashley Koff
But what we really need to do with childhood obesity, you know, as I wave my wand and I don't necessarily need to be president, but I definitely need to be like the health czar that just has the unlimited if I could just take all the resources the insurance companies have and then just use them differently. If we could assess individuals and work on things such as digestive, digestive function, optimizing that which may come from like minded, like come from your parents, you know, So it's like, let's fix those problems, you know, and deal with some of that stuff.

00:27:24:21 - 00:28:00:10
Ashley Koff
It will allow us to help raise a truly healthier generation that then raises and has truly healthier offspring. If we go the path of using tools that are now available with drugs, with surgery and other things, the unfortunate side effect is, on the one hand, we may address like if somebody can lose weight and and it helps them make healthier choices personally, you know, in terms of their protecting themselves and in terms of their food choices and live a happier life.

00:28:00:10 - 00:28:27:01
Ashley Koff
Wonderful on that part. So I'm not dismissing that piece. But if we don't address the underlying dysfunction, we aren't going to help somebody actually have a healthier life moving forward. And the recidivism, the likely likelihood of recurrence of disease is going to be an end of of weight gain and things like that in the absence of just continuously taking medication and likely, I guess, having to increase the dosage of it.

00:28:27:01 - 00:28:33:02
Ashley Koff
And, you know, things like that is going to be significant in that in that part.

00:28:33:04 - 00:29:03:03
Mark Titus
Well, let's go back to accessibility. And and this has a lot to do with your psychological assessment of yourself and dealing with shame and self-worth. And, you know, how about I think a lot of us get overwhelmed when we're thinking about nutrition and, quote unquote, how to do it right. And so we we give up and we defer to the status quo that's out there because it's cheap.

00:29:03:03 - 00:29:13:00
Mark Titus
It's convenient, It's right there. My God, where do I get fresh? You know, especially in places like food deserts where it's well marked.

00:29:13:00 - 00:29:37:20
Ashley Koff
Can we take just that one right there? Yes, That it right there is one of the biggest marketing faux pies that we've ever made. So to call one part of the grocery store fresh fruit, fresh in terms of produce and another not fresh, either frozen or canned, etc., but especially frozen is really flawed. So I do a whole language education.

00:29:37:20 - 00:29:57:13
Ashley Koff
So I'm like, Hey, let's let's change our vernacular. Let's learn a different nutrition language. And so in that grocery store, I'm like, okay, there's ready to produce now in some of that produce may have been shipped here. It may be like it's already lost 15% of its nutrients. I'm making up a percentage, so please don't picture that. But, you know, it's been through it's been through the ringer on, you know, some of those things.

00:29:57:15 - 00:30:16:19
Ashley Koff
And it's also typically priced much higher. And we also in that area only support things look really pretty because they're they're supposedly, you know, need to look pretty. So the grocery stores get rid of something that might not look pretty or maybe now they have a little bin for ugly, which is great. You know, I love that part.

00:30:16:21 - 00:30:40:03
Ashley Koff
So Frozen, you know, talking about frozen and helping people understand and be able to utilize canned produce is really important. So I think that that part is key. So just that one there, you know, you and I both know because we could just use the fishing example technically, quote unquote, fresh fish as opposed to frozen fish that stayed frozen.

00:30:40:04 - 00:31:04:01
Ashley Koff
Then you you do have to learn how to cook it. You know, that you can do is often a lot of the stuff that's coming in is often a lot less fresh if it's in the quote unquote fresh fish area than, you know, in the frozen. And there's total value in canned. There's total value in frozen and in frozen, we're often protecting it and having it retain its nutrient sources, etc..

00:31:04:01 - 00:31:29:16
Ashley Koff
So one of the reasons I think my I have like an extra an ability to help people in this space and I feel extra committed to it is because I had this marketing background. I'm able to see how wrong marketing has done and it's really marketing like and the marketing messages that then even play out into our dietary guidelines because the companies that make the products are influencing the dietary guidelines, all of that stuff.

00:31:29:18 - 00:31:53:12
Ashley Koff
We have to unpack that. So take it away today, you know, canned salmon. Absolutely canned frozen fish, frozen fruits and vegetables. When you can consume organic, a lot of times people can get organic in frozen at a price point that may be a lot more approachable. And it also doesn't go bad within like one or one and a half days in your refrigerator, especially if I'm talking about berries.

00:31:53:14 - 00:32:13:17
Ashley Koff
So just something like that help somebody when I walk into a grocery store with them or they hear something like this, they're like, okay, I can look at my budget in a different way. Like, you know, because I'm I stopped buying these because they were in the bin, in the in the refrigerator and they went bad. And I was so mad about the money that I wasted, you know, that kind of thing.

00:32:13:19 - 00:32:39:17
Ashley Koff
So I think those are the things that we have to do a better job of helping. I think every single person in the system has to accept a certain amount of responsibility. So the doctor has to accept responsibility and not make something sound like it's just easy, like, hey, you're up high blood pressure. You need to you need to stop stressing.

00:32:39:20 - 00:32:58:07
Ashley Koff
Like, really, that's helping me, you know? So I need to how to plan. And if the doctor can't give it, I need to work with the coach and, you know, be able to go through that part. But if the person that's hearing it has to turn around and say, okay, I have a choice, I can either take a medication and sometimes we need both.

00:32:58:07 - 00:33:21:21
Ashley Koff
So I'm not saying there's anything wrong with high blood pressure medication, but I can take a medication or I can learn to do ten rounds of the four, seven, eight breath, which has research has shown, is proven to operate for many people on par with what pressure medication. So can I can I figure out a way to restructure my life choices where I can include that breathing?

00:33:21:23 - 00:33:43:11
Ashley Koff
And by the way, that's free. That's why I wanted to use that example, you know, in terms of walking and, you know, and then when we look at the food side of things, if can salmon, if I can access canned salmon and I can find ways to enjoy it, can wild salmon often is 2 to 3 times less expensive than a lot of the quality fish oils that are on the market.

00:33:43:11 - 00:34:09:18
Ashley Koff
When you look at price per meal or per day or, you know, that kind of thing. So there are ways to look at it and say, okay, there are choices for me that work within my budget, you know, etc.. And sometimes we don't necessarily love the choices. Like when I started to talk to people about quality as it relates to coffee and how you really shouldn't drink coffee every day, that's poor quality because it's just I mean, it's really abusive, you know, on your system.

00:34:09:20 - 00:34:24:11
Ashley Koff
But there's also there are better options. Don't mean that you have to either give up your coffee or have to spend a gazillion dollars on coffee. So we just have to find that middle ground, that better space to be able to make those choices more often.

00:34:24:13 - 00:34:55:00
Mark Titus
It's fantastic insight. And you know, a note on the Frozen, we spend a lot of time talking to people about even even chefs. And, you know, it logically makes sense that the chefs further from the coasts who don't quite get the message that flash frozen salmon, especially flash frozen salmon from Bristol. More on that in a second is excellent quality.

00:34:55:05 - 00:35:39:09
Mark Titus
And for the price point, you you can't beat it. Matter of fact if you put it side side with, you know stuff that's never been frozen sometimes I mean, most times you can't tell the difference. And there are times when when people prefer the flash frozen. And I've certainly seen that in our case as well. And, you know, also considering the carbon offset on these things, you know, for Bristol Bay in particular, because Bristol Bay salmon is harvested at one choke point at one time in this little three week window in one geographic location, It's all harvested at the same place, same time in mass, and then it's processed and frozen in mass and it's

00:35:39:09 - 00:36:05:10
Mark Titus
barged in mass down to the lower 48. And it's literally less carbon than an impossible burger. So it, you know, as a choice. And it's our job, right? We're doing this right now to try to educate folks on why that is a good choice. I want to go back into your work, though, for a second here. And can you can you tell me a little bit about what AK is?

00:36:05:14 - 00:36:25:20
Ashley Koff
Sure. And to be fair, not doing as much with it or I'm almost doing nothing with it these days as compared to the Better Nutrition program. But I created AK, which stands for Ashley Koff approved. I never wanted it to be my name, but IT lawyers were like, Hey, you can't own anything. I was like, What about this?

00:36:25:20 - 00:36:52:17
Ashley Koff
Or what? You know? And there was there was nothing that I could own or trademark. So going back to around 2002, 2003, there really weren't any third party certifications that looked at the rate that looked at quality in the way that I wanted to look at quality, which included looking at their marketing messages. And so it was born of conversations that I had with my then manager and, you know, some other folks.

00:36:52:17 - 00:37:16:08
Ashley Koff
And I was like, you know, I'm constantly jotting down because at the time we didn't have all the digital tools that we have today and sharing with practitioners, patients, you know, the media, etc., showing the distinction between different products and things that would really frustrate me where I would tell somebody about, you know, to to, hey, here's I want you to get this particular bread.

00:37:16:12 - 00:37:29:09
Ashley Koff
And then they'd go into the store and the person in the store would say, no, no, we're having a sale on this particular bread. it has that too. And you read the ingredient label. It doesn't, but on the front it was being marketed that way because you can say pretty much anything on the front of the pack.

00:37:29:11 - 00:37:48:22
Ashley Koff
And so I decided to do this as a nonprofit. I decided to vet products to be able to look at their marketing messages and to look at their ingredients and based on the category to see if they fell into that better range. And that was what Ashley Koff approved met. So it meant that you are a better product.

00:37:48:22 - 00:38:07:23
Ashley Koff
It does not mean perfect. It means that I've reviewed you because some places wouldn't actually give me enough information. I remember when Stevia came on the market. Truvio Wouldn't they? I think they still would. And I stopped trying but wouldn't give me access to their process. They said it's a patented process. It okay, I just need to know, are you heating are you doing this at high heat?

00:38:07:23 - 00:38:29:12
Ashley Koff
Because I want to understand what's happening to the molecules, because I understand could this just be like high fructose corn sirup? You know, I need to explore this further. And when somebody wouldn't tell me, I just couldn't approve them. So I would also say, like not having Ashley Coffee approved as a approval doesn't mean you're necessarily problematic. It just means I can't I can't vouch for you.

00:38:29:12 - 00:38:51:23
Ashley Koff
Now, the funny part is I used to when I first started, I would go out and I'd say, this is the only non-biased source of, you know, evaluating these products because you can't be I can't be paid for it, and I'm evaluating it. And then I realized, my gosh, it is so wholly biased. It is literally so bias based on what I've learned, what I know, what you know, what my you know, my decisions are around that part.

00:38:51:23 - 00:39:16:03
Ashley Koff
And so, you know, I shifted my messaging a bit, but still to this day on my website, we have a pretty significant database. It's just been something that over the years as other third party certifications have come about, some of them good, some of them really problematic. You know, people making things up and saying like, you know, we're putting a circle around, you know, their approval or, you know, other things on that part.

00:39:16:05 - 00:39:37:14
Ashley Koff
And just where my life has taken me with the better nutrition program. I haven't been doing the same amount in that part. But it did it allowed me to go pretty deep into the world of food development, if you will, and and dietary supplements. And that was a really big one. There was nobody that was vetting dietary supplements in the way that I was.

00:39:37:14 - 00:39:56:04
Ashley Koff
And so that resource, I think, is still good, better not perfect. And I certainly have not looked at a lot of the products in yours. So before you would just take it with a grain of salt, I would certainly look at it and then evaluated against, you know, quality and measures or or that piece at this point. Yeah.

00:39:56:06 - 00:40:12:11
Mark Titus
Can you, can you walk me through the better nutrition program and what you know what to expect. And you know, I dug into it a bit and I mean I was like yes, yes, yes, yes. I could certainly use some of that. And, you know, like it kind of comes back to, you know, this notion I have of me.

00:40:12:11 - 00:40:23:15
Mark Titus
And I just don't know how to do it. Right, because it all seems overwhelming. So can you just walk me through how you have created this, this, this? It's more than a product. It's a lifestyle, really?

00:40:23:15 - 00:40:44:04
Ashley Koff
Yeah. And so part of it. So we're we're a company that offers personalized nutrition solutions to practitioners, to patients or individuals and businesses. And I've really been a leader in the space of personalized nutrition from the day that I stopped drinking goat's milk because I knew that I needed a personalized solution, you know, for myself and have driven forward.

00:40:44:04 - 00:41:05:13
Ashley Koff
And that's always something that I offered. And at one point somebody was like, your niche is personalized nutrition. I was like, I hope not. I just hope that I'm paving the way for doing it the way that it needs to be today. Personalized nutrition or precision nutrition. Precision medicine is billions and billions and billions of dollars, 50 billion plus growing as an industry.

00:41:05:13 - 00:41:36:10
Ashley Koff
But the majority of what's offered is partial personal. It's not delivering on personalization. So what I felt was really important is to make accessible, to democratize, being able to help individuals, practitioners and businesses identify and make their the choices that were better for them on a continuum, you know, as they as they're trying to improve their health. And so what we offer today through coaching packages as well as specific programs, is the ability for you to come in.

00:41:36:12 - 00:41:55:21
Ashley Koff
You may have something that you want very specifically want to work on. Okay, I did the digestive evaluation or my practitioner said, or I feel like my digestion is off and I want to do a 30 day digestive tune up and you come through our program and you have live coaching sessions. You're not just messaging with someone who has no idea who you are.

00:41:55:23 - 00:42:13:23
Ashley Koff
You have access to myself and the clinical team to evaluate what the coach is doing and also for you to connect with us in live sessions and you go through the program and coming out of each program, we then go over with you what your better next steps are and you have access to your content over the course of it for a full year.

00:42:14:01 - 00:42:37:08
Ashley Koff
So it helps you to also do what I think is one of the most important things, which is to revisit things at least some instances. They need to be revisited monthly, in some instances quarterly, in some instances twice a year. So one of those that's really popular right now is our continuous glucose monitor program, because there are, I think almost 100 million, if I'm right, pre diabetics and that's by diagnosis.

00:42:37:08 - 00:42:56:19
Ashley Koff
And there are so many people that would qualify as pre-diabetic if we looked at their blood sugar. But hemoglobin a1c, which was once thought of, I mean, it was brand new and it was amazing. When I was starting my practice. We know now today it's a pretty poor assessment of blood sugar because it's an average over the course of three months.

00:42:56:21 - 00:43:13:18
Ashley Koff
And we all know with averages things can look a lot better and we can miss that. There is a lot of highs and lows or we can also not have the data that we need to understand when and why your sugar is going up or it's going down. So our continuous glucose monitors allow us to do that now.

00:43:13:18 - 00:43:31:00
Ashley Koff
And our program allows you, whether it's you yourself or you with your practitioner, to have the data that you need to actually get very specific on what you should be working on, where there's work to be done. You might also validate that you're great and come back in six months and do it again and do that kind of thing.

00:43:31:00 - 00:43:52:01
Ashley Koff
And then we have others. And you actually made me think of it a little bit, Mark, in terms of because we're working within somebody who's come through recovery and they had a pretty disordered relationship with their eating as a result of one of their addiction. And so they've done work. We're not we don't do the work while you're in recovery.

00:43:52:05 - 00:44:12:22
Ashley Koff
But afterwards, their therapist actually referred them over because they just want to work on a positive foundation and relationship with not just it's huge with food. And so what one of our coaches is doing there is we actually had them. The first step was we had micronutrient panel, so we wanted to see do you have any nutrient insufficiencies or deficiencies?

00:44:13:02 - 00:44:32:22
Ashley Koff
And then we can work on helping you meet those with food or supplements, you know, as needed. And then the second step from there is helping them kind of remove all of the judgments around their previous choices and, you know, really, I think it's that addiction language of what they were or the tape, you know, that was in their head from when they were an addict.

00:44:32:22 - 00:45:01:12
Ashley Koff
And it's kind of fun. We're starting over new with that person and they're doing a monthly coaching package. So they at this point, I think they've done like four, but choosing because they're enjoying working with their coach and having that support. So we really run the gamut. We have some athletes, you know, we have people who we have a men's health program because as I learned from an expert that deals with men are we need to language, wellness and nutrition very differently for men than we do for women.

00:45:01:12 - 00:45:44:23
Ashley Koff
So we designed that program differently. And we also developed programs and have them for other companies and businesses on that part. So I love it. It's a way for me to do what I was doing one on one with so many. But it's also a way for me to take somebody who doesn't have access to maybe the the health care practitioner that understands or whether they might even understand the value, but just weren't trained in or the restraints of their medical practice, you know, especially if they're with a bigger institution or through insurance, etc., doesn't allow them to work with somebody in in the way that somebody and give them the support that they need.

00:45:45:01 - 00:45:56:14
Ashley Koff
And I also love it that we get to support practitioners who know that they want this for their patients, but also can't or shouldn't be doing this themselves. And so it's really fun on that part. Yeah.

00:45:56:16 - 00:46:23:20
Mark Titus
I hear a lot of love in there and that's good because that's a lot of work that you just described. And I know I don't even know, not even a fraction of the half of it. So clearly you got to love what you do. And also, you know, you're paying the bills. That's good. But this is this is work that's helping the world.

00:46:23:22 - 00:46:45:15
Ashley Koff
And I what you're really just in, you know, I'm as transparent as day, so I'm not I'm not paying the bills at this point. I am an entrepreneur going on 50. I'll be 50 in September. And I made a lot of money and have made a lot of money early in my career. And I've made I feel like really good choices, maybe some less good choices in terms of that, but creating a little.

00:46:45:15 - 00:47:16:13
Ashley Koff
I had a little idea for a company that's grown into something very large and and I'm not paying the bills. And I think that that's sometimes what's so hard for me is what we are doing. Somebody should be paying for, like your insurance company should be paying for this. Your and we're working on those things. And so as a result, we should be paying we should be paid for those and not and I shouldn't have to worry about what do we have to charge so that we can profit as well as deliver the services because we deliver really high quality service.

00:47:16:13 - 00:47:38:10
Ashley Koff
And that's important to me. So that's something that we wrestle with and I think it's a really important thing because they're just like in the food supply, there are much less expensive options available. You know, you can go it's called the direct to consumer market. You can go get a CGM yourself. They might even offer you some messaging with a coach or they might, you know, etc..

00:47:38:10 - 00:48:01:21
Ashley Koff
But if you don't have somebody who's actually helping working with you and understanding the why, you make all of your choices and looking at all of your data, they're going they're not going to give you what you're going to get out of. That might be a little bit better, but it's definitely not better on that part. Or if you bias to a test that you, you know, because you see on TV that it helps somebody figure out that they were allergic to almonds and now they're all better.

00:48:01:23 - 00:48:20:18
Ashley Koff
I created those ads. They're not all better. And in fact, they may progressively be worse on that part just because it wasn't the almonds fault. It's, you know, as I shared with you in my story, it's like we have to heal the digestive system. So just bring it back to I believe my company will be successful. I believe I'll be more than paying the bills.

00:48:20:20 - 00:48:44:21
Ashley Koff
But I also want a plan for us to figure out the way we're allocating health care resources, like what I personally pay in insurance and don't use unless, God forbid, something happens to me and what my insurance doesn't cover when things actually do and how this could all doing programs like what we have could actually prevent so much need for medication and other things.

00:48:44:23 - 00:49:06:19
Ashley Koff
Our system, just as we all know, it's just really messed up. So I stuck my foot in it because I'm here and I it's it's a part of me. But it is something that for anyone listening who is either a practitioner or if you are yourself going through health things, etc., it is really hard to evaluate how we spend our money on all of this.

00:49:06:19 - 00:49:27:20
Ashley Koff
And I hope that you, if we can be a resource for you even to helping find a better resource and investing in us, I'd love to be that person because at the end of the day we have to be able to afford what it is that's going to make us healthy long term. Otherwise it's actually not a true solution or a better tool for us.

00:49:27:20 - 00:49:29:00
Ashley Koff
I think that's really important.

00:49:29:03 - 00:49:59:02
Mark Titus
So what we're just talking about really illustrates the question I have for you. How how have you observed it? You've you've been in the back end of this thing and you've you've been, you know, cracking the whip of the monster and you've seen capitalism in its full throated capacity. How have you observed business as a force for good, as a force for change and as a force for an emerging consciousness in in health, in all all facets?

00:49:59:02 - 00:50:08:10
Mark Titus
How how do we get to a place where business can serve people better and be sustainable in and of itself?

00:50:08:10 - 00:50:41:19
Ashley Koff
Yeah, it's really interesting because I'm so confused. You know, I, I'm I've felt that capitalism offers so much opportunity, but and it's like goes way off. I've had conversations with people that, you know, basically tell me if I want to if my ideals towards people being equal and having equal access and you know, my values of, you know, really respecting all individuals for who they are, that a capitalist society can't actually support that.

00:50:42:00 - 00:51:08:06
Ashley Koff
And I think that's a really interesting concept. I you know, certainly I know that business is there's so much that we have to do to correct so many problems that, you know, that have problems. Isn't even the right word. Just so many injustices and things that that our society has delivered. So I don't know, you know, I would have my answer historically would have always.

00:51:08:08 - 00:51:27:04
Ashley Koff
I think that there is an opportunity for businesses. That said, my answer is always if we were a barter society, I would slay it. And I, you know, for me, I would be like, I'm I could show up and I'm like, you know, I want your you know, I want your you to do the the broccoli sprouts for me and I'll do this for you and, you know, and all of that stuff.

00:51:27:04 - 00:52:21:16
Ashley Koff
So there is a huge part of me that, that communal, supportive, you know, I love that piece. I think that in the interim, the way that I will answer this is as a business owner myself, I am trying to to lead by example. I am trying to own better not perfect, you know, and I think that in I'm what I recognize is my company is only as good as our outcomes are in our outcomes because we're a business are both fiscal and also that the the results that people get for the long term, the impact that we are having and I think recognizing that those two are completely interrelated, codependent and can never be separated

00:52:21:18 - 00:52:50:02
Ashley Koff
is our guiding principle. What that also helps me to do, because we are a company that helps human beings become healthier or stay healthy. And that part is to recognize that every human, no matter what role they're playing in our company, has such a valuable role. They're there for a reason. And so we need to hear from them and not try to write, answer them or direct them or morph them into something.

00:52:50:02 - 00:53:19:00
Ashley Koff
And that's it's a it's it's hard. You know, there are a lot of times where it's hard to sit back and and not try to just say either let me just come in and do it, which is certainly why you go to an early years. But also while it's going to be a lot more complicated, if I need to actually hear to actually listen, not just hear from but actually listen to everyone who's engaged as a part of my team before making decisions.

00:53:19:02 - 00:53:37:23
Ashley Koff
There are many that would say that I'm crazy, that we just you know, that that might be holding us back. But I fundamentally feel like we have better product. You know, as a result of it. So the force for good, I think can come from it can't just be intentioned. It does have to be in practice. So it can't be spoken, it has to be demonstrated.

00:53:38:01 - 00:54:12:20
Ashley Koff
And I think it can also be from recognizing that there are just things that we're not going to do like and that to me is is a constant where I know I can't achieve X, Y and Z. But if I can achieve X and I can do it as a force for good, that's exciting. So I think that's constantly our struggle and certainly a struggle of mine, which is to narrow the lens appropriately so that I can I'm not pulled in so many directions that I, that I give in, that I give up on that force for good, you know, and what's required there in that way.

00:54:12:22 - 00:54:19:06
Ashley Koff
But I am totally trying to figure it out. And anyone who has any suggestions and my way and I love that you ask the question. So thank you.

00:54:19:07 - 00:54:52:21
Mark Titus
You are welcome. And I'll keep asking you, we're working on cracking that note as well. And you know, I'm going to reflect it back for a second. Fully understanding and acknowledging that we're selling wild salmon from clear up in Alaska. And I if if it were not for the fact that we discussed earlier that it is shipped in mass in a barge frozen and really keeping that carbon footprint way down, you know, it'd be hard to get behind that because it is it is from far away.

00:54:52:23 - 00:55:30:10
Mark Titus
And it does seem exotic. And it's you know, it's a price point that is that can be difficult for some folks. And so, you know, bearing that in mind, I would love to know just, you know, hundred thousand foot view from like a Chinese spiral and view down what what what's your take on repairing a food supply system that is global and is kind of completely out of whack, getting things from, you know, way down in New Zealand up to your plate in New York.

00:55:30:12 - 00:55:37:14
Mark Titus
How do we start the work of repairing our food supply system from your perspective?

00:55:37:14 - 00:55:56:20
Ashley Koff
Yeah. So first of all, I had to giggle when you said a Chinese food because of course we're like, depending on when somebody is listening to this, we're like two days away for or past the balloon, you know, that, you know, we're etc.. So I was like, I might not want to be in that one. So the good news is, and I am eternally optimistic, I'm not Pollyanna where I just don't see any reality.

00:55:56:20 - 00:56:19:15
Ashley Koff
But I do. I am optimistic. There are so many great people and organizations working on this and there's such good work that's being done. And I think sometimes it's too easy to point at something like, I love one that I love. I joke at loving, you know, when somebody talks about how almonds. Yes, almonds take up a lot of water to grow almonds.

00:56:19:17 - 00:56:51:02
Ashley Koff
So that let's work on water supply and let's understand that part. But that isn't a reason to now go drink oat milk. And then we find out with oat milk that there is this, you know, and it just it's this ongoing cycle of like everybody blaming every other word. And remember, what's at the root of all of this is my job out of college, every one of these products and these or these foods, they all have a publicist and they're the job of that publicists is to make you think that their product is better, their ingredient is better.

00:56:51:02 - 00:57:15:03
Ashley Koff
Right? Like, so there's the walnut board and they're going to make you think that walnuts are always a better choice than almonds even, or they're going to definitely talk about, you know, if you're the the Chia people, you're going to talk about being better than flaxseed and all this stuff. No, no, no. So one of the things that we have to understand is so like almost all of the communication that we get is driven from this PR messaging because that they send press releases out.

00:57:15:03 - 00:57:38:18
Ashley Koff
That's what gets in the media. That's what people are writing about. That's a lot of times what in that era that we had of bloggers, maybe we still have it. That's what people are talking about. So it's really, really important to not just repeat things or to not just believe things that have been repeated multiple times. It's going to be really interesting with chat because unfortunately, you know, what it does is it goes in and it searches.

00:57:38:18 - 00:58:17:13
Ashley Koff
So something has been talked about a lot. It's pulling that information and we're going to see a lot of these more quote unquote, facts or things presented in that way. So so please proceed with caution, because I can argue and this is having boots on the ground in Brazil, in Bali, in Alaska, in Norway, like I have gone around to places and in in I mentioned New Zealand, Australia, etc. too, and also in Maryland like into into labs like I have seen what is grown, how we're doing it and the impacts in the communities.

00:58:17:14 - 00:58:57:16
Ashley Koff
So sometimes how something is shipped or sent, yes, there is a cost and there is an environmental cost, but I'll give the example of sugar in Brazil. This the switch to biodynamic growing of sugar in this town in Brazil ultimately brought back rivers very unhappily for me, also brought back anacondas and other very large beings, you know, into that area that they were able to then from a water standpoint and from the sourcing of the cane, able to create a power system, that one got sugar, you know, and what everyone wants to think about sugar, their sugar is just sugar.

00:58:57:18 - 00:59:19:06
Ashley Koff
And they were able to power that whole community for whole periods of time of the year and to, you know, and reduce plastic usage and like all of these amazing things. So is their product shipped to the United States? Absolutely. You know, but then when you look at the carbon offsets there, so the you know, it's very trendy for us to talk about like, I did this carbon offset on that part.

00:59:19:07 - 00:59:37:13
Ashley Koff
You know, the salmon in Alaska are there to die like they come back to die. So we try to get them and we need to bring them and what they do in our food supply to those that are able to access it, you know, and be able to eat made in the USA, you know, and that you're born in the USA.

00:59:37:13 - 01:00:05:05
Ashley Koff
Salmon in that capacity means that somebody doesn't necessarily need to take an omega three fish oil that maybe is destroying an ecosystem in Chile, but is labeled as Norwegian or whatever in that part. Right. And so these things are they're complicated and they're important for us to understand. So one of the things that has to happen, why I feel good and what's the above is we have to stop perpetuating these stories about, well, I don't have that because of this issue.

01:00:05:05 - 01:00:29:14
Ashley Koff
Like, yes, are really severe issues. Palm oil. There is an entire group of kids these days which I love, where they're like, we will not touch anything. That is anything to do with palm oil. And I'm like, okay, we might to revisit that and understand where, yes, palm oil has caused mass sourcing a problem around massive destruction, what palms, where and also can support places that have figured out how to do this more successfully.

01:00:29:16 - 01:00:59:03
Ashley Koff
Or, you know, what does it mean for those communities? And remember, coconuts of palm, Right. You know, so there's like all of things that we need to talk about in that space. And I think that it can really for any of us that have the ability to grow anything, I think that's super valuable for us to have a forward looking view on resources in terms of, you know, things like hydroponics and others, you're right, they may not be grown in soil, so maybe we shouldn't call them organic.

01:00:59:03 - 01:01:26:10
Ashley Koff
But at the same time, I want to know that when somebody is growing things in the hydroponic environment, that they aren't using pollutants and other things. So what standard can I use? So let's reduce the infighting and the conversations, you know, and bring things forward in a more meaningful way. And I think that if we grow things ourselves and if we also interact with people who are growing things down the street, for me here, there's a woman who her restaurant is literally zero kilometers.

01:01:26:10 - 01:01:45:00
Ashley Koff
So she goes into the backyard and they raise the pigs and you see them all summer long and they're the cutest little things, and then they're killing them and they're eating them. And, you know, for me, it's like I'm like, I can't kill a pig. Like, I'm so down. If other people and if you can if you're in that space and I understand the life cycle, then I better not eat pig.

01:01:45:00 - 01:02:08:18
Ashley Koff
If I can't deal with the fact that the pig was killed and those sorts of things. So that's I think there's really great stuff that's going on in a lot of ways. But what will be what will continue to be our undoing is this taking sides around, quote unquote? Right answers it is gray, better health, is gray, better nutrition is gray, better sourcing is gray, like all of these pieces.

01:02:08:20 - 01:02:22:03
Ashley Koff
And we need to hold companies accountable to being better. But at the same time, we also need to make sure our purchasing decisions are based off of better information on that part for sure. Kind of my favorite topic. So. Totally. That's right.

01:02:22:06 - 01:02:52:17
Mark Titus
That's fantastic. And I'm totally down with everything in that in that segment. And you're right, as companies, we got to make decisions. We've made a decision at. It was wild to go with packaging that is 100% recyclable or compostable. It's more expensive. It's less of a margin for us. We're trying to stay competitive with pricing. But, you know, when we talk to our packaging guys, they're like, look, people don't want to spend the money.

01:02:52:17 - 01:03:16:14
Mark Titus
It's not been the norm and it hasn't, you know, created a swell in the market sufficient to demand that. And we're just like, we're going to do that. And try to grow into that swell for folks. So you're right, somebody somewhere has got to make the decision and and then then it comes to consumer. And that's what we're talking about here as well.

01:03:16:15 - 01:03:23:11
Mark Titus
What is the what is your favorite part about the work that you get to do?

01:03:23:13 - 01:03:46:10
Ashley Koff
Well, I get to keep people off doing a goat's milk cleanse. I mean, that was really something that goat's milk cleanse, you know, you got that part. I typically do. You know it. I don't I honestly think it would be like I, I don't I think I don't have a favorite. I mean, I'm lucky I have a life of my choosing and my you know, this really isn't a career for me.

01:03:46:10 - 01:04:13:13
Ashley Koff
It's a it's a mission. And it's it's just me like it, you know, it folds in. But I think there is if I had to identify something, it's not really a thing, but it's I get to see on a regular basis moments where people light up in themselves. And those may be the coaches that work for me or work with me and work with our participants.

01:04:13:15 - 01:04:43:11
Ashley Koff
They may be our operations people, you know, our contractors, certainly our participants. It may be when I'm consulting with companies and helping them understand, you know, how they can address situations like what you're talking about, you know, those sorts of things. So I think I like that. I think I like that light bulb moment that that, hey, I'm in this great place for me, like, you know, and kind of that side of it.

01:04:43:11 - 01:04:59:00
Ashley Koff
And somebody once asked me what my superpower was. This is a fun game that we played in Alaska. You know, when it's until like all it's 24 hour light. So what do you do with midnight? And it was like, what are your superpowers? And all the guys, you know, my brothers and these other folks, everybody out there, they had great super power.

01:04:59:00 - 01:05:18:20
Ashley Koff
And I was like, I'm like a mirror. And they made so much fun of me. Like you see yourself in everyone, you know? And I was like, No, I'm a mirror that likes to shine back. Like, I like to show people the best in themselves. Like, I really. And so I think in this job I get to show people and help them find the best in themselves.

01:05:18:20 - 01:05:28:15
Ashley Koff
And so I think that, you know, that propels me through this career, that takes gazillions of different paths on that path. So it is a super power that I own on that piece.

01:05:28:17 - 01:06:01:04
Mark Titus
Well, we're going to start it's a great super power and we're going to start winding it down here. But food is a big deal and it should be because we need it to continue to operate as a species here. So it's inarguable. You know, that's another thing that I love about this, and it's one of the reasons it's the chief reason we actually brought this in is the main the main channel for change when we talked about this work with Bristol Bay was really focusing on the food because it's not it's not political at all, right.

01:06:01:04 - 01:06:36:10
Mark Titus
We all have to eat. So in that vein, I got to two questions for you to start wrapping this up. One is, what would you say to encourage young people who are fascinated by food and its necessity in our in our culture and as a species. And then the second part is where do you see a long table for kind of creating more conversations around things that are inarguable to try to bridge the divides that we find ourselves in?

01:06:36:12 - 01:06:55:15
Mark Titus
Food is a wonderful place. Maybe it's a it's an allegory that you can relate to mending fences or, you know, crossing bridges or crossing divides by the work that you've done in food. So two part it's what do you say to young folks and how do you see food as a place to find common ground?

01:06:55:15 - 01:07:18:15
Ashley Koff
Yeah, the first ones in easy answer, I can't handle the number of emails and parents to maybe know my parents or now it's like the kids of the people that I grew up with, etc. who like the number of requests that come in. Can I talk to them because they're interested in nutrition or sustainability or whatever? I don't think I have to say anything.

01:07:18:15 - 01:08:00:15
Ashley Koff
I think that we there is nothing to say. I think that they are so much more keenly aware of excited by making choices, investing in, you know, it's it's really there's a lot of value in there. I hope that doesn't change. You know, sometimes we see that change with with different generations. So they're probably just constantly the right answer or the thing I can't answer is what do you say to those individuals that are so upset by what they're parents and grandparents are doing and that is, you know, push harder against them, you know, help them make better choices, introduce your parents or your grandparents or aunts and uncles to to information and to better

01:08:00:15 - 01:08:29:20
Ashley Koff
choices and things like that and go for it, you know, whether it's companies or tech solutions or packaging designs or any of these things, like figure it out. I'm an advisor at Tufts and I'm a teacher and guest teacher for one of the courses there in the graduate program in the nutrition and entrepreneurship. And I love it. Like, I mean, what they are doing is like it just it lights me up, you know, to be a part of these presentations and that stuff.

01:08:29:20 - 01:08:58:04
Ashley Koff
So that's, that's the easy one to answer. I'm not sure on a long table in terms of that. I think I think we I think there's probably two pieces of things that every one of us needs to think about, and that is how much can we personally handle? Because when any of us decide to take on too much, it just doesn't work out better.

01:08:58:06 - 01:09:32:22
Ashley Koff
And that often means that go with something. Because if you can make a difference there, that is going to be something. And if you can talk to people on and explore it and you dive into it, that will change. That will have reverberating changes in a community. So I may look at how many years I was saying, like, wild salmon or, you know, a wild salmon or, you know, even got like, I went to Norway and I was like, farmed salmon versus wild salmon, all of this stuff.

01:09:32:23 - 01:10:11:02
Ashley Koff
But my brother brought me up to Bristol Bay. So like for me, Bristol Bay is like a community story where I'm like, I know like I and you know, meeting, sitting in the room, you know, a two room house where the just so beautifully like the energy. And it was a in a local village and it was just this beautiful, like the amount of love and like it came in and like everyone was so excited and their dogs are, you know, just with and they brought like their smoked salmon, like they had the hanging salmon I brought in is like the I think the term is not actually correct.

01:10:11:02 - 01:10:29:12
Ashley Koff
When I used to call it Indian candy, I don't know, you know, but it would be like salmon candy like they had done that and gave it. And I was just like, you guys legit? This is the best food, you know, And watching that ice pop of this chef like Rick Moonen, it's like, you know, Phenomenal Shove is in there and he's like, you guys, this is amazing.

01:10:29:13 - 01:10:48:12
Ashley Koff
And it's like when you have that moment with people like like, are we at all alike in terms of, you know, what we would vote for? What, all these it didn't matter in any way. They knew I left there. And I was like, I'm on it. Like, whatever I can do, I'm on it. Like, I'm I don't know who I know, but I'm going to find some work.

01:10:48:12 - 01:11:13:02
Ashley Koff
We are going to work on this, you know, in whatever capacity. And that's because we started the conversation off with I was I was there. You know, it's like you have that experience, so don't pass on again. Only deal with what you can handle. But recognize sometimes we get so wrapped up in our own personal lives of what's not working or what we're overwhelmed with or any of these other pieces.

01:11:13:04 - 01:11:48:03
Ashley Koff
And when you're able to be in service to something with others and bigger and that has a legacy, you know, in terms of its impact, if you can find something like that, do that. And I think that that will help that that's how we'll get I think that's at long table. That's how we'll get where we need to go by everybody having something that they that that you know, I'm a child of the seventies eighties like it's a Black Crowes song Saul singing like if something makes your soul sing like that's what you should be doing.

01:11:48:09 - 01:12:02:18
Ashley Koff
And that oftentimes isn't at all related to our work and it's really related to what we can do for, for and with others. And I think that's I guess that's the way I go on table. Is that remotely in your your answer space there?

01:12:03:00 - 01:12:23:20
Mark Titus
I give that a name in and perfect place to park it over today. Love that. And I'm going to give you just one quick little bonus round here because nobody escapes it. But, you know, let's just say your your house, you had to get out of your house and God knows today with the the weather patterns these days.

01:12:23:22 - 01:12:31:09
Mark Titus
But if you could only grab save two things to physical things out of your house, what would those two things be?

01:12:31:11 - 01:12:54:08
Ashley Koff
It's absolutely hilarious because right now I'm having literally a fire sale at my home and selling everything with my move to Maine. So I think I'm actually experiencing you're talking about. So things would not be like, see my dog right on that part. You're not talking about that. Okay, So what are the things that I would grab from my home literally if today I had to get out of here?

01:12:54:10 - 01:13:20:08
Ashley Koff
Okay. I will say one, it's going to sound promotional. I moved up to me and this is my first up here. If you don't know what a dry robe is. my gosh. A dry robe is the best coat on the entire planet. I make no money from. I have no relationship with them. They have saved my life and my experience designed for swimmers and people who are out in the water to be able to change underneath.

01:13:20:10 - 01:13:40:19
Ashley Koff
And I'm this large amoeba that goes hiking everywhere and the whole town knows me from my dry row. I would never driver would be with me also because it's super deep pockets. So, you know, as I go along and make things up. So I think that I would take that and who let me think. So I've got that one.

01:13:40:21 - 01:13:44:23
Mark Titus
We must have the same algorithm because I get the dry rub and.

01:13:45:01 - 01:13:45:08
Ashley Koff
Now.

01:13:45:08 - 01:13:48:22
Mark Titus
Sorry, but I don't have one. But I'm like, man, that looks terrible.

01:13:49:00 - 01:14:13:11
Ashley Koff
You said literally just two things. Well, I think the so there's a real answer and then there is a not so real answer. So the real answer is I would probably hemp seeds because I feel like if I had them like just the largest bag that I have, if I have them, I feel like I'm going to be okay for a while and I can probably find like some berries and maybe learn how to choose which ones aren't poisonous or things like that.

01:14:13:11 - 01:14:30:20
Ashley Koff
But that would give me something to snack on that gave me some good nutrients and could sustain me for for a bit of time If I was being honest and not really thinking about my survival, it would probably be like, I hope I have some dark chocolate and I could take that. Maybe you might think, right?

01:14:30:21 - 01:14:47:06
Mark Titus
Yeah, Yeah. All right. One thing of your makeup, your internal makeup, you're a little bit more on a spiritual level. Like, if you could only take one attribute of Ashley alone, what would that be?

01:14:47:08 - 01:14:58:12
Ashley Koff
I guess my sense of humor. I feel like nothing else is I quote Jimmy Buffett. You know, if we couldn't laugh, we'd all go insane. So I think on that part and by the way, I'm only funny to myself. So, know, I'm like, All right.

01:14:58:14 - 01:15:14:06
Mark Titus
Down there. Right there. Yeah. It's beautiful. And very, very last. If this was a fire, what would you leave to be burned up and purified in that fire? Anything about yourself or about anything you've collected?

01:15:14:06 - 01:15:47:13
Ashley Koff
And so, I mean, I don't know how it would be purify, but so first of all, I would leave everything because I am so detached from things and I'd get outside and try to find people and figure out how we're going to do this together. So I think there's there's that piece. I think if you're talking about internally, I have way too many messages in my mind that consistently, you know, I guess it's on one shoulder, if you will, or whatever, that either tell me I'm not doing enough or the things that I should be doing.

01:15:47:14 - 01:16:01:02
Ashley Koff
And gosh, it would be great if those went into flames. And I was just like, you know, it's like kind of that. Like, how do you become eternally present and just, you know, all of that peace and that's all a work in process for me. Yeah.

01:16:01:04 - 01:16:12:02
Mark Titus
As, as we all are. So Ashley Cuff, R.D. thank you for showing up today in full force, in full presence and we will link it in the show notes. But how do folks find the work that you're up to?

01:16:12:02 - 01:16:31:22
Ashley Koff
Sure. Please feel free to reach out to me. You can pretty much find me anywhere on social media, you know, Ashley Coffee or the Better Nutrition Program and the website is the better nutrition program dot com. And you can go to explore program and check out what we have or just chat us and we'll work with you to figure out what could be better for you on that part.

01:16:32:00 - 01:16:33:15
Mark Titus
Thank you, my friend. Til next time.

01:16:33:15 - 01:16:35:19
Ashley Koff
So good. Thank you.

01:16:35:20 - 01:16:43:11
Music
How do you save what you love?
How do you save what you love?

01:16:45:21 - 01:17:09:10
Mark Titus
Thanks for joining us here on Say what You Love. If you'd like to support our work, you can subscribe to this podcast through your favorite podcast, or at evaswild.com. That's the word save spelled backwards wild dot com. And if you like these conversations, you can help keep them coming your way by giving us

01:17:09:10 - 01:17:39:17
Mark Titus
a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts for photos. Follow us on Instagram at Say What You Love Podcast. This episode was produced hosted by me, Mark Titus, and edited by Patrick Troll. Save What You Love is a partnership between Eva's Wild Stories and Magic Canoe in collaboration with the Salmon Nation Trust, and this episode was recorded on the traditional homelands of the Duwamish, people whose practices and spiritualities were and are tied to this land and water.