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You became a coach to help people — but no one told you how to build the business behind it.
Coach as Entrepreneur is the show for coaches who want to go beyond referrals and create a real business that supports both their clients and their family. Each episode explores the systems, strategies, and stories that help coaches simplify marketing, attract the right clients, and grow sustainably, without burning out.
Whether you’re just starting or looking to scale, this is your roadmap to running your coaching practice like a business… and doing it with heart.
Build the system. Serve your clients. Support your family.
# Bill Bryant
[00:00:00] **David Chung:** Today's guest, Bill Bryant, spent 40 years leading corporate teams across 8 countries [00:00:28] and six industries. When a [00:00:30] significant corporate restructure became the catalyst for his own professional pivot, he [00:00:35] chose to leverage the life quake to help other leaders develop transitional intelligence.
[00:00:39] [00:00:40] We're diving into how to turn organizational disruption into your most [00:00:45] powerful competitive edge. Let's dive in. You became a coach to help people, but [00:00:50] no one told you how to build the business behind it. Welcome to Coach as Entrepreneur, [00:00:55] the show for coaches building real businesses with systems, strategy and heart. Build the [00:01:00] system, serve your clients, and support your family.
[00:01:02] Bill, thank you so much for your time [00:01:05] today.
[00:01:05] **Bill Bryant:** Okay, David, it's good to see you again.
[00:01:06] **David Chung:** I'm excited to talk with you. You've got a ton of [00:01:10] experience. You've been around a lot of the world, working in a lot of different [00:01:15] industries, and so, there's a lot I like to cover about your experiences and where you [00:01:20] see the world shifting. But before we get into that, I'd love to know about [00:01:25] you and how you found out about coaching.
[00:01:27] **Bill Bryant:** Hey. Yeah, that's a good question because I'm often [00:01:30] asked, given that my background is in fact in chemical engineering, which is not a straight line [00:01:35] to coaching. but what I found was that over many years, in fact from [00:01:40] probably the early two thousands I took on and really enjoyed and excelled [00:01:45] at doing mentoring of a quite wide range of colleagues, some of whom I even followed as they went to [00:01:50] other organizations, or I went to other organizations. And so that built this feeling that [00:01:55] this was perhaps a skillset that I could, leverage and enjoy. And then as I [00:02:00] looked to what do I do beyond my corporate career, you know, you [00:02:05] explore a lot of different things and everyone comes up, oh, maybe I could do consulting or whatever. And there was a little bit [00:02:10] of that, but I thought, what would be interesting for me and easy to fit into a [00:02:15] lifestyle where you are now post corporate, let's say that. And it was actually a completely [00:02:20] serendipitous meeting whilst doing a boating license of all things in Singapore, [00:02:25] I met a chap on a boat and he and I got chatting. through the discussion, he made the following comment. He said, [00:02:30] you know, you should speak to my partner. He runs a coaching business and I think you have got all the right [00:02:35] styles for coaching.
[00:02:36] And I thought. Alright, well, okay. I mean, I hadn't quite seen that one [00:02:40] coming. and so
[00:02:40] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:02:41] **Bill Bryant:** to the next, it turns out that they were both cyclists. I was a cyclist, we did cycling [00:02:45] together. Got on famously and, you know, he said, look, I'll give you a decent rate to get yourself started on the [00:02:50] coursework. did and, just felt very natural. So that's sort of how I got into [00:02:55] the formal side of coaching. But when I reflect back on my life, I realized that [00:03:00] actually a large part of my job involved coaching and mentoring people all through. [00:03:05] And in fact, it was the thing that was reflected on most as I did my farewell and [00:03:10] exit tour, most of the leaders and most of the people I worked with reflected on, the thing they're gonna miss the [00:03:15] guidance, mentorship, coaching, and encouragement that I used to give. Which obviously wasn't [00:03:20] formally my job description, but it turned out it was a very natural
[00:03:23] **David Chung:** Right.
[00:03:23] **Bill Bryant:** So it's been a sort of [00:03:25] progression and then
[00:03:26] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:03:27] **Bill Bryant:** it with qualifications. Yeah,
[00:03:28] **David Chung:** Right. I mean [00:03:30] I do see that a lot where leaders in organizations, because it kind of [00:03:35] falls under, not necessarily, in the description, but it kind of falls under the role and [00:03:40] responsibilities of that level of. You know, your position in the organization, if you're a [00:03:45] leader, you have to lead and to lead people, you have to sometimes mentor people.
[00:03:49] Sometimes you [00:03:50] gotta coach people. You just gotta, but you're the leader, so you have to have some of these skills, [00:03:55] right?
[00:03:55] **Bill Bryant:** a absolutely. David And I think what you see across organizations, and as you mentioned, I've worked in a [00:04:00] variety of industries and organizations and this cuts across cultural [00:04:05] bases. thing that people crave most. Get the least of is [00:04:10] useful and, let's call it directive or let's call it helpful feedback. [00:04:15] But that's
[00:04:16] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:04:16] **Bill Bryant:** essence what coaching seeks to do. Not through prescribing [00:04:20] and directing, but encouraging that information to come out. And if you look at what's most sought [00:04:25] in today, especially in Asia, you see a lot of coaching programs. What they're [00:04:30] selling is the, the leader as coach. And that highlights that need and that [00:04:35] desire that people even lead in a coaching methodology. [00:04:40] So I think it, sort of, you're right, I mean, it becomes an important part of the [00:04:45] equation and it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone's necessarily good at that. But in the role that I [00:04:50] played in a regional role covering a lot of people who are often far away from [00:04:55] the center. That becomes an important role and people really seek it out.
[00:04:58] So, it
[00:04:59] **David Chung:** [00:05:00] Yeah.
[00:05:00] **Bill Bryant:** gravitated towards quite naturally.
[00:05:02] **David Chung:** Yeah, I think if you're [00:05:05] natural at it, then that's great because you know, you don't have to really work too hard [00:05:10] at it. But there's a lot of people who, especially first time managers, when you become a first time [00:05:15] manager, there's a lot of. It's not the same as being like just the, the subject [00:05:20] matter expert like you're going from working, doing the work to now overseeing the work [00:05:25] and managing the people, doing the work. And so it's a whole different skillset.
[00:05:29] **Bill Bryant:** And
[00:05:29] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:05:29] **Bill Bryant:** I think [00:05:30] that, you know, you're touching on such an important point because what I'm seeing and where I'm sort of gradually moving [00:05:35] towards and seeing as the clear. Area where I'd like to operate is exactly in [00:05:40] those emerging leader groups because traditionally is seen as an executive suite [00:05:45] type, development tool. And in fact, some organizations have formally said that below the executive [00:05:50] suite you're not getting coaching, you'll get AI coaching or general [00:05:55] training, and that's fine. I mean,
[00:05:56] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:05:57] **Bill Bryant:** runs it their way and traditionally certainly [00:06:00] coaching had a real fit at that executive level, but the thing I see is that people [00:06:05] emerging are the ones that are in fact, struggling the most and for whom the methodology of [00:06:10] coaching probably in fact has even more value at the executive level [00:06:15] because they are at that stage where they don't know what they don't know. they can see things that, on, this [00:06:20] doesn't make any sense to me. And then they're trying to find a way to translate that. [00:06:25] coaching and perhaps with a dose, of mentoring here and there become so [00:06:30] valuable. I mean, I've seen it, my two most recent clients fit squarely in that category. And [00:06:35] you could see sometimes how they would just be thinking, how do you know this?
[00:06:37] I said, well, look, I had 40 years of this, [00:06:40] so I have actually seen this from both sides. And they said, Yeah.
[00:06:43] because we've always
[00:06:43] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:06:44] **Bill Bryant:** we couldn't figure [00:06:45] out why we couldn't think what was driving that, was the meaning of
[00:06:48] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:06:49] **Bill Bryant:** and so [00:06:50] a hundred percent right, and I think that's, I see that a lot in the coaching space [00:06:55] that the people that
[00:06:56] **David Chung:** yeah,
[00:06:56] **Bill Bryant:** are articulating the need is that, and that speaks to [00:07:00] the point you were just making very well that.
[00:07:02] In a normal environment, you would get that from your [00:07:05] leader, but it's not natural for all leaders. And it speaks to the point I was making, which is that [00:07:10] what's this in demand course or training coaching leaders to
[00:07:13] **David Chung:** yeah,
[00:07:14] **Bill Bryant:** coaches [00:07:15] and because organizations also
[00:07:16] **David Chung:** yeah,
[00:07:16] **Bill Bryant:** hmm, if we can, we need to try and expand the set of people who [00:07:20] have, if not natural skills, but they've learned some of the techniques.
[00:07:23] **David Chung:** yeah. And [00:07:25] actually, why I like this subject so much is because for me, I spent most [00:07:30] of my career in the coaching industry by accident. I never intended to, but I got in there, and then I [00:07:35] stayed, and then I went from being a subject matter expert doing, actually like multimedia [00:07:40] filming and then doing, building online courses and technology for [00:07:45] the coaching organization.
[00:07:46] And then I became a manager. And I knew for me, because [00:07:50] of what I was watching and seeing in terms of how to coach people during certification programs, [00:07:55] I knew that there's gonna be a gap. And so when I became a manager within that organization, I said, [00:08:00] okay, great. I'd love to be a manager.
[00:08:01] I'd love to help and I love where we're going, but I need a [00:08:05] coach because there's a gap here. Like I know how to do the work. I can probably manage [00:08:10] people. Okay. But I really wanna be successful. And how do I become successful? Well, I [00:08:15] need somebody who can help me be, be that like, I can figure it out, but do you really want me to spend years figuring it [00:08:20] out or like just help me accelerate?
[00:08:22] Just coach me.
[00:08:23] **Bill Bryant:** And it is about, organizational [00:08:25] point of view, the benefit is that in fact you enhance the performance of [00:08:30] somebody. So there is, you know, I think there's always a debate about coaching, but are clear that [00:08:35] the right people at the right time, there is almost inevitably a very [00:08:40] clear payback, uh, in terms
[00:08:42] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:08:43] **Bill Bryant:** and improved performance. [00:08:45] And also just opening up a person to some of their own blind spots, which [00:08:50] often don't matter or don't matter as much at, the subject matter level [00:08:55] expert, what the doing level, but at the leading level become sometimes real stumbling blocks [00:09:00] because now it's not affecting only what they do, affecting the work of a lot of other people.
[00:09:03] And sometimes the [00:09:05]
[00:09:05] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:09:05] **Bill Bryant:** of a team. So it has a multiplier effect. So there's real, value there.
[00:09:09] **David Chung:** I would [00:09:10] also say that there's probably an outsize impact when you're working with high [00:09:15] potentials or emerging leaders, because they're closer to the work. They're more at the, they're [00:09:20] just closer to it versus your C-suite, right? And so, 'cause when at your C-suite [00:09:25] level, you kind of get the dashboard of the KPIs, but then you're not necessarily with the [00:09:30] teams who are doing the work all the time, day to day.
[00:09:32] And with those emerging leaders, they are. And so, [00:09:35] I mean, I, I'm just interested, like, what do you think, like, what do you see like from those emerging leaders if you are [00:09:40] training them and teaching them and coaching them?
[00:09:42] **Bill Bryant:** I think it's a, it's a confluence of three things. It's, it's a very [00:09:45] interesting point you raised because. I'd say what I'm starting to see, and I see [00:09:50] that there is literature on this, is that one of the biggest determinants of whether a [00:09:55] coaching engagement will be successful is the readiness of the person to be coached. So [00:10:00] if they are
[00:10:00] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:10:01] **Bill Bryant:** as you were that, look, I need help because I can [00:10:05] feel this gap. Or the gentleman that I've been coaching in the Middle East who, where the organization said, [00:10:10] we know and recognize this guy's being
[00:10:12] **David Chung:** Yeah. Mm-hmm.
[00:10:13] **Bill Bryant:** very task [00:10:15] oriented role, but he's got a lot of the potential. And we had like to speak to him about [00:10:20] coaching and he then became very receptive to that because he, all the anxiety that came up in him was [00:10:25] due to his realization that, oh, I'd like the job. actually no. Now I'm not too sure whether I know what to [00:10:30] do. And his readiness has been, it's been amazing to watch because he's had that tremendous [00:10:35] self-awareness, willingness to do the work, willingness to go away and make the changes. You can see [00:10:40] that that's one big determinant. So that's the one, point about that. And oftentimes people in [00:10:45] very high positions don't necessarily have that readiness to be coached [00:10:50] because part of why you're at a senior level is because you're sort of, kind of the guru. So don't necessarily feel like what I [00:10:55] gonna learn from this guy coming in from outside, whereas that other person really sense of the need.
[00:10:59] So that's [00:11:00] one aspect. The second aspect, I
[00:11:01] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:11:02] **Bill Bryant:** in that oftentimes I talk of change [00:11:05] within organizations as needing. A sort of vision, which if you like, the leader or the [00:11:10] leadership team provides like, okay, this is why we want to do something and this is where we want to go. [00:11:15] you need tools and techniques.
[00:11:16] And that's oftentimes where consultants get involved. They [00:11:20] bring a bag
[00:11:20] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:11:21] **Bill Bryant:** and tools and what have you not, they're not necessarily but then
[00:11:24] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:11:24] **Bill Bryant:** a critical [00:11:25] mass of change. And that usually is at the level two, level three.
[00:11:28] that can [00:11:30] be absolutely instrumental. Even if the other two are good, it can fail at that level to the exact [00:11:35] point you're making.
[00:11:35] 'cause at some point you have to do actual work that actually needs to [00:11:40] change in the way people do actual day-to-day work. And we can talk a new [00:11:45] leadership
[00:11:45] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:11:45] **Bill Bryant:** but if we can't. Actually affect the change at the working level. [00:11:50] Oftentimes, nothing fundamentally changes because change is not a [00:11:55] generic concept.
[00:11:55] It's about structurally, mechanically, if you like, changing what we [00:12:00] do. that usually happens at the working level. And then there's another jump down to the very [00:12:05] bottom where to manage the change for the person. Because they [00:12:10] are largely in adaptation. They will be told, here's the new set of rules, and then they will accept. [00:12:15] But the people you have to influence, persuade, guide, and bring along with you are that level two, level three. So [00:12:20] that's the second part of it. And then the third part of where that fits together is that it's the [00:12:25] individual who's now in this new position, who's trying to now [00:12:30] simultaneously. Break away from the doing do the leading, but he's not got enough tools here and he's trying to help [00:12:35] out there and he can sort of see the vision,
[00:12:37] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:12:37] **Bill Bryant:** to communicate to the top.
[00:12:39] But that's all a new [00:12:40] language for him. So that, that's the third part that's going on. So there, that's why [00:12:45] coaching can provide of power at that level because it's [00:12:50] actually hitting much more than the apparent thing. It's speaking to.
[00:12:54] **David Chung:** [00:12:55] Yeah, exactly. It's a hard role to be in because you're in, you're literally in the middle, right, [00:13:00] of the work and between the different levels and you're trying to, [00:13:05] you know, depending on where your organization is, implement change, or, just learning to [00:13:10] communicate betwe as somebody in the middle, in between.
[00:13:12] And it's a new role. So it's, lots of things are [00:13:15] changing and influx. Before we started recording, we started talking a little bit about AI [00:13:20]
[00:13:20] **Bill Bryant:** Yes.
[00:13:20] **David Chung:** and how AI is starting to change things. And there's a ton of research, data at [00:13:25] least of, because right now, the wor way I see AI being implemented in the world.
[00:13:29] We are [00:13:30] all in a giant sandbox being testing AI as it's [00:13:35] coming out. And no one really knows, because it's a giant experiment. We're [00:13:40] all testing and trying and figuring this out. the whole thing with change, like when I was younger [00:13:45] in, university, I used to work in a bank and I was a bank teller.
[00:13:48] And I was there during a time when [00:13:50] they switched out the software and not even switching out the software. It was a software upgrade. Right. So, [00:13:55] it's not like a new software, it's not, it's just a software upgrade. But some of the [00:14:00] UI changed the people who were there longer.
[00:14:02] Had a harder time with the transition [00:14:05] of the, the UI change because some of the buttons move, some of the way the functionality [00:14:10] changed. It was all intended to be better, but for people who had gotten used to using the [00:14:15] system, it was very difficult. And so what I see in that is that it's hard for [00:14:20] people you know, learn and to change and adapt.
[00:14:23] And when I look at AI [00:14:25] coming into the business, and I look at what happened the last year in 2025, a lot of companies [00:14:30] said, ai, great, we got jump on this bandwagon. Let's, let's apply this into our [00:14:35] business. Everybody, here you go. Here's ai. Good luck.
[00:14:38] **Bill Bryant:** Yeah.
[00:14:38] look, there's context [00:14:40] around this because I'm, old enough to have lived through the.com era and [00:14:45] seen the before and the after. And as we know with the.com era, there was [00:14:50] fundamental change to how we worked. To give an
[00:14:52] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:14:52] **Bill Bryant:** I started my export management job, [00:14:55] everything was on faxes, which was all already then the new, like, amazing thing to be able [00:15:00] to do. But I would arrive at a
[00:15:01] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:15:02] **Bill Bryant:** and I'd get a pack of 20 faxes that had come through with [00:15:05] all the daily orders that I'd sign and write on, and then I'd fax them back and that was [00:15:10] considered sophisticated. and then all of a sudden we, roll on two, three years and at that time there was [00:15:15] only really one guy in our entire department who had a computer and he was like, whoa.
[00:15:18] He's got the computer [00:15:20] and captured the sales stats and what have you. then within two, three years, everybody had a computer. Then [00:15:25] just a year or two on, we are traveling with modems. And then, not very long after that it's wifi. [00:15:30] so that.com area did have fundamental change. However, cannot forget that there [00:15:35] were also a huge number of, a massive amount of waste, let's put it that way. of [00:15:40] misdirected spending, which was aimed around just the hype, saying, look, if I throw something [00:15:45] at the wall, maybe it'll come off. And as we know, there were a lot of companies
[00:15:48] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:15:48] **Bill Bryant:** with the sole purpose of [00:15:50] being sold had, you know, they were, let's say, in dog training, and it became dog [00:15:55] training.com. And then apparently it was a, company and, WeWorks is probably the best example of a [00:16:00] ordinary business model. But because it had an app, it was now suddenly a, you know, an [00:16:05] amazing, technical innovation. The point about that is that that's probably not dissimilar to ai. And [00:16:10] I've heard a lot of talk around, you know, there's a bubble forming, but what people are speculating on is,
[00:16:14] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:16:14] **Bill Bryant:** are we at [00:16:15] the start of the bubble and the bubbles, you know, the burst is coming, everybody agrees that it's coming, but [00:16:20] is it one year away?
[00:16:20] Is it two years away? Is it three years away? And, and what will trigger that? Because [00:16:25] the investment in AI is way ahead of where businesses are adopted. And that's the [00:16:30] thing to look at
[00:16:30] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:16:31] **Bill Bryant:** that was what businesses were struggling with. Then I worked in a chemical [00:16:35] business at the time and they thought, well we've gotta, we're gotta move our sales online.
[00:16:38] Okay, but what does that mean? [00:16:40] I mean,
[00:16:40] **David Chung:** yeah.
[00:16:40] **Bill Bryant:** not how people that we deal with by that kind of product.
[00:16:44] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:16:44] **Bill Bryant:** [00:16:45] are we just going online because we have to be online or we feel we have to? then there was that realization of, [00:16:50] Yeah.
[00:16:50] okay, maybe we need to solve the right problem. And so I get the sense when I talk to [00:16:55] organizations today, and even if I look within the coaching industry, AI's helping certainly. [00:17:00] But the value of the use cases is
[00:17:04] **David Chung:** [00:17:05] Mm-hmm.
[00:17:05] **Bill Bryant:** the hype. If you listen to Sam Altman and Elon Musk and what have you, where [00:17:10] ar will run the world and then there'll be a couple of us, I guess on the side the [00:17:15] power stations that feed the energy, that drive the, the data centers. it's just not matching.
[00:17:19] And, and even the [00:17:20] organization I worked for, there was a lot of excellent pilot work being done,
[00:17:23] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:17:24] **Bill Bryant:** ability to [00:17:25] widespread roll it out where it fundamentally changed jobs wasn't as obvious, but where it's [00:17:30] having a lot of health is
[00:17:31] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:17:31] **Bill Bryant:** Predictive models,
[00:17:32] **David Chung:** mm-hmm.
[00:17:33] **Bill Bryant:** models that try to anticipate [00:17:35] pricing, demand, that sort of thing, it's starting to help, not perfect, but it's starting to
[00:17:39] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:17:39] **Bill Bryant:** And so [00:17:40] that's where it's having value. I mean, we all interact with it. I mean, almost everybody that goes
[00:17:44] **David Chung:** Yeah,[00:17:45]
[00:17:45] **Bill Bryant:** today gets spoken to by a chat bot. But if you look at those
[00:17:48] **David Chung:** yeah.
[00:17:48] **Bill Bryant:** if you ask [00:17:50] anything other than a straightforward question, it says, nope. Sorry, you've got the wrong person. I don't know how to answer that [00:17:55] question.
[00:17:55] **David Chung:** Or it'll make something up. Something very just out of this world [00:18:00] up. Yeah.
[00:18:00] **Bill Bryant:** the local, uh, telecommuting patients provider, and if you go on there, if you ask them questions [00:18:05] like. then it'll say, what do you want to do with your account? And if you say, [00:18:10] question billing, it'll tell you an answer. But if you write in the, question, having a problem with my account, [00:18:15] because there seems to be, differences on the
[00:18:16] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:18:17] **Bill Bryant:** it'll say, I do not understand this, but you've actually asked [00:18:20] the same question.
[00:18:20] So they're not very sophisticated, is my point. But they are being deployed
[00:18:24] **David Chung:** Ah, [00:18:25] I see.
[00:18:25] **Bill Bryant:** Yeah. So
[00:18:26] **David Chung:** Yeah. So I think,
[00:18:27] **Bill Bryant:** is wide, but it's not [00:18:30] dissimilar to the.com in that way because in the.com, everybody sort of had suddenly a.com. But if you [00:18:35] said, okay, but what is it fundamental purpose? How is it fundamentally changing your business that [00:18:40] they, I don't know.
[00:18:40] But anyway, we've gotta have one because, you know, the guy next door has got one, so we've also got one.
[00:18:44] **David Chung:** It's, it's [00:18:45] the fomo, it's the fear of missing out. Right. And
[00:18:47] **Bill Bryant:** it it, you know, it
[00:18:47] **David Chung:** it makes sense.
[00:18:48] **Bill Bryant:** has value. The thing [00:18:50] I think is important, and that's what I think the pilots that the former company was doing [00:18:55] was very informative. If you do AI at simple level where it's essentially [00:19:00] enhanced Google, I mean, it surprises you with some of the answers it can give you can ask it,
[00:19:04] **David Chung:** [00:19:05] Yeah.
[00:19:05] **Bill Bryant:** tell me a, a great, route planning for a drive up the west coast of Australia, and it'll [00:19:10] come up with great ideas. But that's
[00:19:12] **David Chung:** Mm.
[00:19:12] **Bill Bryant:** that's and available information that [00:19:15] it can just package easily for you. So you're impressed by the fact that it can package it for you. But if you [00:19:20] go and look at it, you think, look, I could have probably done that research in a day and probably come up with the same [00:19:25] answer anyway.
[00:19:25] So it's not really like it's giving you something inspiring. However, if you do [00:19:30] advanced AI, you have people that really understand. How to [00:19:35] interrogate the model, how to force the questioning. start to tremendously [00:19:40] improve what comes back at you. But it's
[00:19:42] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:19:42] **Bill Bryant:** always reminded of, you know, this takes me all the way [00:19:45] back to a university where, a professor said to us that just because it's printed on computer [00:19:50] paper does not mean the answer is right.
[00:19:51] You still have to go and check, okay, does this make sense? So [00:19:55]
[00:19:55] **David Chung:** Yes,
[00:19:55] **Bill Bryant:** a sanity check at the end of the day.
[00:19:57] **David Chung:** of course. I think my, in the [00:20:00] whole experience of this to, me, one thing is like, is, are the companies using [00:20:05] AI or like rolling out this AI technology? And I think that's what you're referring to, that bubble, right? [00:20:10] In terms of like, these businesses are getting overhyped because they're saying it's gonna solve all of [00:20:15] this stuff.
[00:20:15] But in, reality, when people are actually using it and applying it, what is it actually [00:20:20] doing for us? Like. And I don't know all the numbers, but like something like OpenAI, like chat, GPT [00:20:25] had a ton of investment that put they're burning cash on a monthly basis. Like just
[00:20:29] **Bill Bryant:** the [00:20:30] signal for the start or the elements that make up a bubble because that's no [00:20:35] different than the.com.
[00:20:36] **David Chung:** Yeah,
[00:20:37] **Bill Bryant:** see was that companies that had no. Benefit [00:20:40] by going into an online model. We're just put into an online format.
[00:20:44] So, you know, and [00:20:45] I use silly examples. They're not real, but it would be as silly as saying, I have a [00:20:50] dog washing business, and then I just call it dog washing.com, and then I claim that I'm an internet [00:20:55] based business.
[00:20:55] And you think, well, no, you wash dogs. You know, maybe your
[00:20:58] **David Chung:** yeah,
[00:20:58] **Bill Bryant:** system is online. But, [00:21:00] you know, in those early days, people just, they literally had to just put.com in their name and
[00:21:04] **David Chung:** [00:21:05] yeah.
[00:21:05] **Bill Bryant:** it was when the wrong things got connected. But you, I mean, that's not different than any other industry. [00:21:10] For example, there was a biofuels boom in the, what sort of been the. [00:21:15] thousands. And I remember a
[00:21:16] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:21:16] **Bill Bryant:** a statement, which so made the point we're trying to make here, which [00:21:20] is he said, you know, when, so this was the guy that sold licenses that made the [00:21:25] technology, which allowed the bio to be made, which formed the basis of biofuel. [00:21:30] And
[00:21:30] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:21:30] **Bill Bryant:** you know, I can see that there is something wrong because there is now a Polish [00:21:35] supermarket that's bought a license to build one of these plants. He said, that doesn't sound right. That's a bit [00:21:40] like the analogous to the 1930s depression when Oppenheim or Rockefeller, whomever, [00:21:45] it was, made the realization that something was wrong when the shoe shine guy [00:21:50] outside the stock exchange said, oh Yeah. he's bought a ton of shares and he thought. On, that's not right. That, [00:21:55] that this is getting crazy. That's
[00:21:56] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:21:56] **Bill Bryant:** people that have no
[00:21:58] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:21:58] **Bill Bryant:** of how the thing works are [00:22:00] diving into the business. And that was the
[00:22:02] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:22:02] **Bill Bryant:** people that had a reason chemical business, that had a [00:22:05] reason and a logic that feed stock and they could have a reason to build these plants that made sense.
[00:22:09] And he was
[00:22:09] **David Chung:** Hmm,
[00:22:09] **Bill Bryant:** [00:22:10] when, of course, as a license seller, he was happy to sell the license, but he himself acknowledged, he said, look, [00:22:15] this is gonna go off the rails. And, and sure enough, a couple of years later, the whole thing kind of hit the wall [00:22:20] there was way
[00:22:20] **David Chung:** hmm.
[00:22:21] **Bill Bryant:** much supply and too little demand.
[00:22:23] And
[00:22:23] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:22:24] **Bill Bryant:** like every bubble it, it [00:22:25] burst for a while and then everything
[00:22:27] **David Chung:** Yeah. Yeah.
[00:22:28] **Bill Bryant:** the waste trimmed out of the system. [00:22:30] But the main point takeaway is that just like with.com, as it will be with ai, out of it will [00:22:35] come the stuff that's actually useful, but it'll be a much reduced version of the [00:22:40] hyped up solve everything.
[00:22:42] Problem, approach
[00:22:43] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:22:43] **Bill Bryant:** stated as being what's [00:22:45] possible.
[00:22:45] **David Chung:** Yeah. I think for me as a, I try to be really [00:22:50] practical in a day-to-day, like, how do you use the tool in your life, right? To [00:22:55] me, AI is, it's a tool, right? It's like a hammer. Like if, if you gave somebody who's [00:23:00] never seen a hammer, and you ask them, what would you do with this?
[00:23:03] They might just, you know, if you [00:23:05] showed them a nail, they might think, oh, I hit the nail with it. They might put the, the nail in the hammer. I don't know. [00:23:10] Right. Or they might, you know. You say you hit the nail with the hammer, they could use a handle. [00:23:15] The side of it. It's inable, right? And so I think that's how we're interfacing and using [00:23:20] AI a lot of the time right now.
[00:23:21] And I think, so my, thing or that what I was trying to [00:23:25] come up to was within the organizations of, leadership and development and [00:23:30] how are you using and applying a ai, I think there's a lot of possibilities, but we [00:23:35] just don't know how to use it. Companies and how they're building their businesses.
[00:23:39] That's one [00:23:40] thing. and I, totally agree that there is a bubble coming. But in that practical, like day-to-day [00:23:45] of your leaders how do, are they using AI do they fear [00:23:50] AI or just the pain in the butt because they're forcing it on them and they're like, this doesn't actually [00:23:55] help me.
[00:23:55] **Bill Bryant:** Yeah. We actually heard some really interesting interviews just within the last week, that were [00:24:00] of some very senior Japanese leaders that were present at Davos, and they were asked this question, and [00:24:05] I really enjoyed their answer because they said three things. They said, look, it's [00:24:10] a. Potential value adding tool that we have to then still figure out how to [00:24:15] use and understand
[00:24:16] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:24:16] **Bill Bryant:** case is, which is essentially what we are saying. So when you put it into [00:24:20] the coaching world, you'd say, well, that's speaking to a management challenge problem. How do I deal with that? Second [00:24:25]
[00:24:25] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:24:25] **Bill Bryant:** said was, which I thought was the really interesting insight, I've not heard somebody say this before this. [00:24:30] Their comment was, what they're struggling with as leaders is to say, what does that tell us [00:24:35] about the skillset that we should be hiring for?
[00:24:37] What are we supposed to develop
[00:24:38] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:24:39] **Bill Bryant:** And I thought that [00:24:40] was really insightful. Then particularly hearing that then from a coaching angle. then the third [00:24:45] part that they spoke of is look, we need to use the tool as best we can not do [00:24:50] nothing, but also not,
[00:24:51] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:24:52] **Bill Bryant:** sort of try and do everything. they're trying to find [00:24:55]
[00:24:55] **David Chung:** Yeah,
[00:24:55] **Bill Bryant:** ground. And I think it speaks to, least prior to this, what I've seen this done all the way, I [00:25:00] would put this as a lot of people doing it in sort of pilot. Teams, lab teams who [00:25:05] are sort of taking something, really trying to explore the use case and seeing almost if
[00:25:09] **David Chung:** yeah,
[00:25:09] **Bill Bryant:** [00:25:10] generate a really valuable use case, not
[00:25:13] **David Chung:** yeah,
[00:25:14] **Bill Bryant:** trying to [00:25:15] already throw it into the business.
[00:25:16] **David Chung:** Yeah,
[00:25:16] At
[00:25:17] **Bill Bryant:** what they said because for me, I reflected it back [00:25:20] to where we are talking, which is saying, when all of this is said and done, does it have, do we see this in the [00:25:25] coaching world? And I say, yes, it's the disruption again, it's the anything that's [00:25:30] disruptive could potentially change the nature of your business. yeah. That's [00:25:35] the stuff that as they say, you know, should be or must be keeping leaders awake At
[00:25:39] night because they're [00:25:40] thinking, man, I get this wrong, I could really look
[00:25:42] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:25:43] **Bill Bryant:** uh, a couple of years from now, [00:25:45] but if I get it right, of course it would
[00:25:46] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:25:46] **Bill Bryant:** hero. But it costs
[00:25:48] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:25:48] **Bill Bryant:** and [00:25:50] therefore, you know, if you like the simplified version of this, but potentially complicated version is [00:25:55] ERP systems. So I've seen
[00:25:56] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:25:57] **Bill Bryant:** companies where ERP integrations and [00:26:00] implementations have gone wrong, then the whole
[00:26:02] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:26:03] **Bill Bryant:** to a halt. you've got this tool that [00:26:05] you're bringing into the system that is going to solve everything, make everything fantastic, but [00:26:10] implemented wrong has, and there's a very large company in America, which I'm aware of, [00:26:15] where it actually simply stop being able to do business.
[00:26:17] They couldn't process orders, they [00:26:20] couldn't procure, and literally the business shut down. They were all hands on deck. And even a [00:26:25] company I worked for many years ago, they discovered that somewhere the cashflow was not coming through this one [00:26:30] division. And then they realized what would happen was they hadn't managed the change management, which brings it again, [00:26:35] back to our earlier conversation of coaching those leaders. And these folks just said, well, I'm [00:26:40] just not gonna enter this data because I haven't got the time, so they want me to do all these extra data entry [00:26:45] points. it. So they just left it and then they stopped processing invoices, and then they had enough [00:26:50] time to do their work. So they were moving stuff around, but nobody was getting billed. And [00:26:55] then the company said, hang on, you know, there's like a couple of million missing here. And then it all became [00:27:00] true.
[00:27:00] But it, all again, I, what I like to try and do is, these are all good examples, but if you say, okay, [00:27:05] but we are speaking from the coaching perspective, it's about two things. One is. group of [00:27:10] people who manage between the leading and the doing. Why is that good for coaching? This is, again, [00:27:15] another example to try and help this person deal with the do and the lead, and [00:27:20] trying to that correctly in the organization. And the second is anything that [00:27:25] causes disruption to your daily way of working or changes the way that you work has [00:27:30] much bigger consequences. And it always manifests at the human level, ultimately, [00:27:35] because you've gotta bring
[00:27:36] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:27:37] **Bill Bryant:** I always say change is positive. If you're on [00:27:40] the good side of change, says, oh, I love change.
[00:27:42] What they mean by that is I've been always on the [00:27:45] good side. So when change has happened, I've come out ahead. If you're on the part of change where your job no longer [00:27:50] exists, when this change is finished. You're probably not going to sort of be that enthusiastic [00:27:55] about it. I think this again, circulates back on what we are talking, which is that's one of AI's [00:28:00] big challenges that the talk
[00:28:01] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:28:02] **Bill Bryant:** jobs or most or many jobs are gonna be eliminated.
[00:28:04] [00:28:05] So imagine you're now asked to join in a project roll out ai, and you think,
[00:28:08] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:28:08] **Bill Bryant:** I don't think so [00:28:10] why would I help this thing to eliminate me? So, so that's what companies are dealing [00:28:15] with, that's what leaders are dealing with. That's
[00:28:16] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:28:17] **Bill Bryant:** ultimately this whole thing is just a massive change [00:28:20] management exercise.
[00:28:21] **David Chung:** Yeah. I totally agree. And the funny thing is, I just, before we [00:28:25] got on this call, I saw a headline that says, like, a lot of the tech companies are starting to regret [00:28:30] letting go a lot of, their developers and that's where it just stopped. That was the headline. Right. Because it's [00:28:35] gotta hook you in and you create that curiosity that, so you want to read the rest.
[00:28:38] But the ai tools [00:28:40] aren't perfect. they're still figuring it out. Let me bring us back into the transition of, your work [00:28:45] and your life because, the whole world is trying to figure this one thing out. How did you [00:28:50] go about figuring out, for your transition from your corporate life into the coaching [00:28:55] life, somebody said you would look good as a coach.
[00:28:58] You have all the skills [00:29:00] for that. How did you rectify for yourself, your identity, from being a [00:29:05] corporate leader to now being, becoming a coach? What was that transition for you [00:29:10] like?
[00:29:10] **Bill Bryant:** Actually, I would say it's been smooth and disruptive. So the smooth part is that I [00:29:15] found just personally that I have not struggled with what [00:29:20] many peoples talk about the loss of identity and one of the big challenges as you move into [00:29:25] post corporate world.
[00:29:26] But certainly what I have struggled with is the loss of [00:29:30] structure and you
[00:29:31] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:29:31] **Bill Bryant:** realize the extent to which structure becomes [00:29:35] so normal in your life because you do it for 40 years. And the way I put it is that, [00:29:40] often wasn't just Monday to Friday, but let's say Monday to Friday, nine to six is spoken for. And [00:29:45] you never have to think about that. get up and when
[00:29:47] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:29:47] **Bill Bryant:** anything else in your week, you're thinking
[00:29:49] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:29:49] **Bill Bryant:** I wanna go for a [00:29:50] ride. I better do that in the morning. Or I need to go to the gym worker. I better do that in the evening. Or I need to catch up with that person. Or [00:29:55] that'll have to be on Saturday because you don't even think about these hours because they've spoken [00:30:00] for. And then you
[00:30:00] **David Chung:** Right.
[00:30:01] **Bill Bryant:** this realm and it's very pertinent to the world of coaching.
[00:30:04] 'cause you've gotta develop [00:30:05] your coaching business. So it starts essentially on zero. And suddenly you have no [00:30:10] structure. And that struggle with, suddenly, Monday to Friday, nine to six is empty. So that is [00:30:15] the thing that really plagued me and I found it caused me to almost come to a halt. I had to really [00:30:20] work at it. And I was able to then finally be directed towards a, good coach [00:30:25] accelerator or coach business development program, that's run violating out of Perth. And, that [00:30:30] helped because what she does is exactly to try and bring back structure and say, right, let's break this [00:30:35] into some tasks.
[00:30:35] Let's work on certain things. And then as you do that, you start getting [00:30:40] structured, but it's not easy because your whole life's not structured. So you sort of think, okay, [00:30:45] this is gonna be easy. I'll just tackle this just like a normal day job and you know, get it, get to my desk at nine and [00:30:50] work through. But there's
[00:30:51] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:30:52] **Bill Bryant:** that sort of forces that structure, it's pretty hard. So I'd [00:30:55] say that's been the biggest adjustment, David, by far. And it's ta
[00:30:58] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:30:58] **Bill Bryant:** in with the [00:31:00] secondary thing, which is the developing of the business is a much harder challenge than the [00:31:05] doing of the coaching.
[00:31:06]
[00:31:32] **David Chung:** And that's the pattern that I see in a lot of the coaches I've [00:31:35] spoken with is that when they've gone from corporate to coaching, highly [00:31:40] intelligent people, right? Very giving, want to coach. The problem [00:31:45] is most people who get into coaching just want to coach, but they're set up as a [00:31:50] solopreneur, like a LLC or you know, whatever it is, wherever you are, but you're [00:31:55] running a business by yourself,
[00:31:56] **Bill Bryant:** Absolutely.
[00:31:57] **David Chung:** so you've become a business owner that [00:32:00] doesn't want to do the business of running the business or don't even realize that you're [00:32:05] doing it sometimes.
[00:32:05] **Bill Bryant:** Absolutely. And I think it's tied to two things. One, I mean, you [00:32:10] can't be good at everything and even though you know about things, 'cause in corporate you deal [00:32:15] with accounting, you deal with finance, you deal with legal. And so you, you got some ideas. But
[00:32:19] **David Chung:** [00:32:20] Mm-hmm.
[00:32:20] **Bill Bryant:** is that you had the ability and the luxury to just not worry about that stuff.
[00:32:24] Because if [00:32:25] something came up, could pick up a phone and say, Hey, so and so, this thing's come up and I realize it's probably [00:32:30] a legal issue and you know, I know I probably should have spoken to you last week, but anyway, and they can help you so [00:32:35] they can rescue you from wherever you are. Even if in an ideal world, you've
[00:32:38] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:32:39] **Bill Bryant:** when you're running a [00:32:40] business on your own and then you realize, I'm already running the business and now whoops, it turns out I [00:32:45] should have had insurance. That matters because for a period of time just, okay, look, we can [00:32:50] probably fix this. No, you know, you, you have some fundamental issues. And so knowing [00:32:55] starting to learn about what you don't know, but also that you've gotta get out of that mode of just having that [00:33:00] feeling and knowledge that there's someone down the corridor can help you.
[00:33:03] It.
[00:33:03] It's obvious when you [00:33:05] say it, so it's not an intellectual challenge, but it's a behavioral challenge to try and get that [00:33:10]
[00:33:10] **David Chung:** yeah.
[00:33:10] **Bill Bryant:** that you start doing things in an anticipatory way. And I,
[00:33:14] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:33:14] **Bill Bryant:** [00:33:15] recall if when we spoke earlier, I made this point, but for me, I sort of got going with customer.
[00:33:19] I was like, eh, [00:33:20] I'm off and running. I was actually at a, short conference in the October, so [00:33:25] this was 10 months later after leaving work back in Singapore. And this one gentleman did a [00:33:30] presentation on, this was for people who are trying to start again, do a second life, [00:33:35] some kind of know, reinvention of
[00:33:36] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:33:37] **Bill Bryant:** And he said, look, the central thing. And he had come as from [00:33:40] head of finance, head of admin for big companies. His wife ran
[00:33:43] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:33:43] **Bill Bryant:** small coaching [00:33:45] enterprise and he provided all the back office and he said. The thing you have to do is to make sure that you're [00:33:50] set up as if you're a big business. So go and speak to people who can tell you what are the elements.
[00:33:54] 'cause you said risk, liability, and then systems. If you can [00:34:00] get those sorted out, the doing part is probably the thing. You're gonna struggle with the least, but it'll [00:34:05] also mean you can do that with a clear conscience and just do it. And when he said it, I just [00:34:10] thought, wow, okay. I've been doing none of those things.
[00:34:12] It wasn't that I'd been doing some, I'd been doing [00:34:15] none. And I thought, whoa. I remember everything taking a break for three months and really [00:34:20] recalibrating and reorganizing everything I did. And
[00:34:23] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:34:23] **Bill Bryant:** restarted in [00:34:25] January of last year. was with a much, sort of more relaxed part saying, okay, I, [00:34:30] I had an accounting system now and I had insurance and I had written in certain [00:34:35] clauses into my contracts, I even had contracts, which I hadn't before.
[00:34:38] I just sort of had one-to-one [00:34:40] agreements with individuals. And he, he made the point very
[00:34:42] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:34:42] **Bill Bryant:** the fact that he said, remember, you're contracting with [00:34:45] companies. It's not that they are malicious towards you, but they have a way of working and if something doesn't work, [00:34:50] they will take the actions that they would against any vendor. But it just so happens here, has a
[00:34:54] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:34:54] **Bill Bryant:** [00:34:55] company and you're a, you know, couple hundred thousand individual. And he said that's gonna be a losing [00:35:00] battle from day one. So best you have all your protections written in
[00:35:03] Just the lack. So that's why I [00:35:05] say, I think the thing that struck me was that it's. Intellectually, you know this stuff, but it's that you don't have [00:35:10] that
[00:35:10] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:35:10] **Bill Bryant:** that it forms such a fundamental part of the fabric of a business. Because for [00:35:15] most of us, we have not previously set up businesses. And even if we [00:35:20] started business divisions, as I have, that was with a whole army of [00:35:25] experts who came along and did their little bit, and you looked at it and
[00:35:28] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:35:28] **Bill Bryant:** of it, and you might have even [00:35:30] had an understanding of it, but you never internalized the fact that had to [00:35:35] go see all the issues and then find solutions for each and every one of the issues. You just knew [00:35:40] it was happening and
[00:35:40] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:35:41] **Bill Bryant:** great, and off we go. So Yeah.
[00:35:43] that
[00:35:44] The absence of [00:35:45] structure, but the fact that, and the longer you spent in corporate, the more that just [00:35:50] formed a basic part of your life. It was just there. It just happened and it was [00:35:55] natural.
[00:35:55] And I think the other thing that you do often, and it probably is really prevalent in coaches, you approach life [00:36:00] from the wish to do good for and with other people and therefore you
[00:36:04] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:36:04] **Bill Bryant:** [00:36:05] stuff on a good faith basis, but that's
[00:36:07] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:36:07] **Bill Bryant:** basis for business.
[00:36:08] You can still have [00:36:10] good faith, but it should be grounded
[00:36:12] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:36:12] **Bill Bryant:** well structured rules and systems.
[00:36:14] **David Chung:** Yeah. [00:36:15] That's, a really good point. I wanna kind of go over this, the concept of the life quake, and how [00:36:20] for you as a coach, you transitioned from your, 40 year corporate [00:36:25] career, how did you leverage your background, your stories as a way to [00:36:30] kind of build your brand and build your business, and how do you think others can kind of model [00:36:35] their transition similarly?
[00:36:37] **Bill Bryant:** Well, I think I did a course that is [00:36:40] run by an organization called the Modern Elder Academy in the us,
[00:36:43] Was running it for slightly [00:36:45] different reasons, but it's actually been embedded with, and has been taken up by a coaching organization to [00:36:50] make it into a structured program called TQ or transitional Quotient. [00:36:55] EQ or iq. The premise is that there are better ways to handle [00:37:00] transitions and it can be learned and improved on, and therefore we can
[00:37:03] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:37:04] **Bill Bryant:** so-called [00:37:05] transitional intelligence. And so this then became a
[00:37:07] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:37:07] **Bill Bryant:** proper program. And I, have that, [00:37:10] qualification. So to answer your question, in fact, it was a little bit in reverse.
[00:37:13] I'd been going through this and then [00:37:15] I was on this course and then I thought, aha, now I can see what's going on. [00:37:20] And it's underpinned. So William Bridges is the sort of the Godfather of Transitions [00:37:25] work, and he speaks of, you know, the, the ending. So something ends. a new
[00:37:29] **David Chung:** [00:37:30] Mm-hmm.
[00:37:30] **Bill Bryant:** between that, he talks of the neutral zone, this course.
[00:37:33] and a guy by the name of Bruce Fier, [00:37:35] who's done a lot more work more recently on transitions. He writes a book called
[00:37:39] **David Chung:** [00:37:40] Mm-hmm.
[00:37:40] **Bill Bryant:** In the Transitions, and he's got some great
[00:37:42] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:37:43] **Bill Bryant:** He speaks of an [00:37:45] ending, and then a new beginning. And in between is the messy middle. I really like
[00:37:49] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:37:49] **Bill Bryant:** [00:37:50] his premises. And what his research found is that as adults we go through these transitions [00:37:55] and let's call them changes about every 18 months. So we learn, we develop, we grow. and that's [00:38:00] sort of natural process. But that every now and then a couple of these things [00:38:05] coalesce or happen at the same time. And then you have what's
[00:38:07] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:38:08] **Bill Bryant:** quake. So I was going [00:38:10] through a change. I'm in turning, I'm. Now moving into my sixties, to contemplate [00:38:15] retirement. My children are leaving home with coming for me. With the, the end [00:38:20] of working life is I'm having to think about a change of country. And then all of a sudden it all comes together and it's [00:38:25] happening this year and you're on your way. then you arguably meet the standards of a life quake. The [00:38:30] point about it is, and, it's about how then do you manage that transition. And one of the things that's [00:38:35] ironically key is to first establish, at which point in this transition are you? Because [00:38:40] once you can identify that you're really still are dealing with something ending and you [00:38:45] haven't adequately dealt with that, and that was part of my problem, I almost had to go back and say, look, let me [00:38:50] put a bow around this corporate life. you do what
[00:38:53] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:38:53] **Bill Bryant:** question was asking, which is you start [00:38:55] saying, okay, but what can I take from this?
[00:38:57] What are actually the lessons that I've learned from this? [00:39:00] And what becomes useful to
[00:39:01] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:39:02] **Bill Bryant:** And then in that messy middle, they talk of, [00:39:05] the best analogy I've heard is that you, it's like you're standing in a forest in the mist and you're trying to [00:39:10] figure out which way to go. Naturally you would say, can I see any light source anywhere? And they [00:39:15] talk of that as glimmers. And glimmers are the opposite of triggers. And so you're trying to see [00:39:20] what draws you what, where's something that draws you towards that? And then you need to ask [00:39:25] yourself,
[00:39:25] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:39:25] **Bill Bryant:** what, is this something that I can do something with? Is it positive [00:39:30] for me? Do I find it attracting me? What basis do I have to do that? Which comes back to the, [00:39:35] okay, so what lessons do you bring with you from corporate life? And for me, the sort
[00:39:38] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:39:39] **Bill Bryant:** thing [00:39:40] was that in fact. Managing and helping people to manage transitions is in fact a real skillset that I have.
[00:39:44] [00:39:45] Because when I went back over my career, I thought, 14 moves. So we went to seven or eight different [00:39:50] countries, but we went to some of them twice.
[00:39:51] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:39:52] **Bill Bryant:** changed industries, changed jobs, changed many [00:39:55] things. You think, okay, so I think you might have learned something about how to handle these change things. [00:40:00] But now with a bit of formal structure around how could you prosecute that with somebody, like [00:40:05] some tools, techniques, so that,
[00:40:07] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:40:07] **Bill Bryant:** what all of that was. And it's
[00:40:09] **David Chung:** [00:40:10] Hmm.
[00:40:10] **Bill Bryant:** I've seen this when I've coached people that when you can recognize with them that they are in and are [00:40:15] going through a life quake, it really resonates with people.
[00:40:17] 'cause they just think, well, so there's actually even a name for this. [00:40:20] I mean, yes, I just thought my whole life was exploding into pieces. But it [00:40:25] turns out I'm going through a natural sequence of change that is happening. it is possible to
[00:40:29] **David Chung:** [00:40:30] Yeah.
[00:40:30] **Bill Bryant:** through this. And I think that's where you need to get things grounded again. So, for
[00:40:34] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:40:34] **Bill Bryant:** it was, as I [00:40:35] say, it was a thing, I actually needed to go back and sort of use the coursework to go [00:40:40] through with myself and clarify was I get
[00:40:43] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:40:43] **Bill Bryant:** moved well [00:40:45] into the messy middle, sort out the direction. And it's, been iterative, to be honest. I [00:40:50] haven't quite sort, clarified. So I find even now I'm sort of moving a little bit in terms of what do I [00:40:55] define as my where I specialize in coaching.
[00:40:58] Even that's moved as I do [00:41:00] the work.
[00:41:00] Yeah, something new begins, but these lines are not absolute. But at some point you
[00:41:04] **David Chung:** [00:41:05] Mm-hmm.
[00:41:05] **Bill Bryant:** One part behind, but you need to recognize that you're sort of moving out of something and then you need to [00:41:10] say, right, thing has ended. at some point you, you get enough clarity. [00:41:15] most of your life moves out of the messy middle, but there will be elements which could still be there. But I [00:41:20] just
[00:41:20] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:41:20] **Bill Bryant:** because I think it's so apt when I speak to coachees about this, [00:41:25] you can see 'em looking, thinking, yes. That's what I'm going through. So, um,
[00:41:29] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:41:29] **Bill Bryant:** great.
[00:41:29] **David Chung:** [00:41:30] I feel like at the moment, the whole world is just figuring out that messy middle. I mean, [00:41:35] again, with, with AI and just the state of the world there's a lot of things in flux.
[00:41:39] **Bill Bryant:** [00:41:40] Absolutely. It, and why it's such a good framework because it says Yeah, if you applied on a [00:41:45] macro scale, you're absolutely right, David. I mean, if you said, let's do this on a macro scale. So the world used to [00:41:50] operate in the pre AI mode is coming to an
[00:41:52] **David Chung:** mm-hmm.
[00:41:52] **Bill Bryant:** There's going to be a thing called [00:41:55] the Post or. The AI world, but we're not there yet. But it's coming and we can see [00:42:00] elements of it
[00:42:00] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:42:00] **Bill Bryant:** and we are staying in the middle. And the glimmers are, we see a positive way of using [00:42:05] AI and think, oh, hang on. So some of the medical
[00:42:08] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:42:08] **Bill Bryant:** AI is helping to [00:42:10] get high percentage rates on, finding of tumors or assessing
[00:42:14] **David Chung:** [00:42:15] Yeah.
[00:42:15] **Bill Bryant:** or what have you, you think Okay.
[00:42:16] That sounds good. I mean, that, surely we'd all like that to happen. okay. [00:42:20] That's good. So
[00:42:20] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:42:20] **Bill Bryant:** glimmer, and that's something that can draw you towards it. But as we say, glimmers are [00:42:25] the opposite of triggers simultaneously in that world, there are triggers that, AI's gonna get rid of all [00:42:30] jobs.
[00:42:30] Ooh, okay. I don't like the sound of that one too much. so that's what we're all dealing with. Yeah.
[00:42:34] **David Chung:** I've really enjoyed this [00:42:35] conversation. I'm curious for yourself, 'cause as we're talking about just transitions and [00:42:40] obviously transition. We're always transitioning. And I'm curious [00:42:45] for you, what have you learned about yourself, as Bill Bryant post corporate [00:42:50] now coach, what have you learned about yourself in this transitionary time?
[00:42:53] **Bill Bryant:** So I was [00:42:55] very surprised that I didn't have that sort of need to [00:43:00] identify with my, corporate identity because I had suspect that might be a [00:43:05] problem because it was know, so defining of everything you do for so long. But [00:43:10] didn't affect me. But the thing that surprised me was this inability to just naturally [00:43:15] deal with the change of structure and to, form new [00:43:20] systems, ways of working that become positive and actually help you to do work.
[00:43:23] I was quite surprised at how [00:43:25] resistant to change I had become, and how much time I sort of spent circulating on [00:43:30] myself. the way I've
[00:43:31] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:43:32] **Bill Bryant:** I dealt with that was how people that have [00:43:35] done, let's call 'em a type personalities, have dealt with in the past. You become more busy and then you get really [00:43:40] busy and you keep getting more busy.
[00:43:41] 'cause you think that'll eventually I'll solve the problem by just being busy all the time. [00:43:45] there was a great retirement coach up in Sydney who had a quick chat with me and he said, listen, I have a saying [00:43:50] called Buy Now. And he says, busy is not always meaningful. I thought. That's the thing that's been bothering me [00:43:55] because I didn't sort of articulate, I couldn't articulate it, I'd get to the end of the week.
[00:43:59] I'd been [00:44:00] super busy. I could tell you a thousand things I'd done that week. But if you ask me am I happy, [00:44:05] I would tell you no. I'm feeling I more unhappy because now I'm feeling like I'm busy, [00:44:10] but I'm actually getting more detached from everything. So that's the thing I learned
[00:44:13] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:44:14] **Bill Bryant:** myself and [00:44:15] it's sort of an ironic reminder that I needed to take myself back to [00:44:20] the coursework that I was doing and helping that I'm gonna help everybody else do their transition.
[00:44:23] Say, well, how [00:44:25] about you look at yourself and try and take yourself through the process? So it [00:44:30] became very
[00:44:30] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:44:30] **Bill Bryant:** for me to try to reground myself, re-anchor myself, and slowing [00:44:35] down to make
[00:44:36] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:44:36] **Bill Bryant:** is, was definitely a feature of what it was. And then. So, Yeah.
[00:44:39] I [00:44:40] think those things were the thing, the main things that I learned, and as I build some [00:44:45] structure, I'm finding with each week as I get the structure more better organized, [00:44:50] it gets better.
[00:44:50] But I'm
[00:44:51] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:44:51] **Bill Bryant:** I'm not yet as well as I would like to [00:44:55] in an ideal world, especially on the business
[00:44:57] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:44:57] **Bill Bryant:** side. I'm feeling still [00:45:00] something is holding me back and I haven't quite figured out what that is, I,
[00:45:04] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:45:04] **Bill Bryant:** to work [00:45:05] on that. So,
[00:45:05] **David Chung:** mm-hmm.
[00:45:07] **Bill Bryant:** to, because I think the thing coaches often [00:45:10] wrestle with is that in your head, you believe you're selling yourself, but the thing you have to keep [00:45:15] reminding yourself is that you are selling the service that you offer, not yourself,
[00:45:18] How do you articulate that with, [00:45:20] because you get stuck and say, ah, I don't wanna sort of there and make it as if I'm some kind of guru on something. [00:45:25] And you think, well, no, you're not saying that this is your thoughts
[00:45:28] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:45:28] **Bill Bryant:** That conflict [00:45:30] within oneself, I find Yeah.
[00:45:31] that I have wrestled with a lot.
[00:45:32] **David Chung:** And I find that a lot of coaches do have [00:45:35] this struggle of. Separating themselves, their identity [00:45:40] from the services that they deliver, and then the mindset when it comes to doing the [00:45:45] business development or the consideration of marketing and sales.
[00:45:48] **Bill Bryant:** Yeah.
[00:45:48] **David Chung:** Because often it feels like [00:45:50] this icky thing like every coach I've talked to.
[00:45:52] **Bill Bryant:** For me, it's much more in the latter [00:45:55] category I do the coaching, that feels comfortable, it feels logical, it feels [00:46:00] natural, and I feel that
[00:46:01] **David Chung:** yeah.
[00:46:02] **Bill Bryant:** and everything I bring to the table [00:46:05] has a net positive value. oftentimes things will come up and people think they've got a [00:46:10] unique situation.
[00:46:10] You think, well, I've kind of seen a variation of that somewhere in my life. And [00:46:15] by having had the benefit of having worked in many different cultural environments [00:46:20] helps a lot there too. this
[00:46:21] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:46:22] **Bill Bryant:** of sell yourself versus sell the [00:46:25] service, that for sure a daily struggle. And I think that's the thing, if I'm honest, [00:46:30] that's ultimately holding me back from really sort of going full ball, on the
[00:46:34] **David Chung:** Mm.
[00:46:34] **Bill Bryant:** [00:46:35] development because it's sort of that you wanna do it and then you think, oh, not liking the feeling of this.
[00:46:39] And then so [00:46:40] you're in that tension all the time.
[00:46:41] **David Chung:** Yeah. So let me share with you something that's really [00:46:45] helped me so what has helped me as to think about it in a different perspective when it [00:46:50] comes to doing the marketing and sales, because I had the same problem of I don't wanna do sales.
[00:46:54] [00:46:55] I don't want to be one of these, you know, sales guys, they're just. They're almost all charlatans, I feel [00:47:00] like. Right. And that's not who I am. So I've really distanced myself from trying to go [00:47:05] there, but I, repositioned the whole conversation so Bill, do you feel like you're an [00:47:10] ethical and moral person?
[00:47:11] **Bill Bryant:** Yes.
[00:47:11] **David Chung:** What would you do?
[00:47:12] **Bill Bryant:** I would certainly help them to the extent I [00:47:15] could. Yeah,
[00:47:15] **David Chung:** Yeah. They don't know. You're a doctor though. And so as you approach them, they're just like, get away from [00:47:20] me. So what would you do in that situation?
[00:47:22] **Bill Bryant:** you would try and inform them what you bring [00:47:25] to the table. And look, I've got skill sets that can be helpful in this, in this example.
[00:47:29] **David Chung:** [00:47:30] So you, tell them you're qualified as a, a doctor, right? You, you tell them you're, physician. You can [00:47:35] actually heal them and help them. Now there are people in this world. And as a [00:47:40] coach, do you feel like the work that you've done with your clients has been helpful to them in a real [00:47:45] way?
[00:47:45] **Bill Bryant:** Definitely I'm seeing the change and they are more importantly, they seeing the [00:47:50] change.
[00:47:50] **David Chung:** Now, do you think more people in the world would benefit from [00:47:55] working with you?
[00:47:55] **Bill Bryant:** Definitely the Right. people that are ready for coaching, certainly,
[00:47:58] **David Chung:** Right. The problem [00:48:00] is that they don't know who you are. And so as a moral and ethical obligation. [00:48:05] You should tell people who you are, what you do, and how you can help [00:48:10] them because they're hurting, they need help. They just don't know what coaching [00:48:15] is about and who can help them.
[00:48:16] **Bill Bryant:** I like this. I like this framework. it's actually a very useful [00:48:20] framework when you put it in those reference points that are, you know, easy. Because that [00:48:25] example, and we say, well, that's an easy example, but you actually have connected the dots very nicely there. So, yeah, no, [00:48:30] I think that makes a lot of sense.
[00:48:31] **David Chung:** For me personally, when it comes to talking about the [00:48:35] services or the work that I do, you know, it's thinking of it from this perspective [00:48:40] because I do know that what I do can help somebody. They just don't know me. So now [00:48:45] it's not like I'm just trying to sell I approach it from this of.
[00:48:48] What I do will help [00:48:50] you. You just don't know it. Let me try to educate as many people as possible about what it is that I [00:48:55] do and how I help so that the people who are willing to accept that help. 'cause not everybody's gonna accept the [00:49:00] help on the side of the road, even though they're hurt because therefore, whatever reason, obstinate because [00:49:05] maybe they're just like, I'm not really hurt.
[00:49:06] It's not that bad. Or, I don't trust you for whatever reason. That's fine. [00:49:10] Like, you wanna help them, you offer, if they don't accept it, then that's unfortunate for them. [00:49:15] But the people who receive and, hear it will, and those are the people that you can [00:49:20] help, right?
[00:49:20] **Bill Bryant:** And it tallies with this research. As I say that I've seen more and more of that. Probably [00:49:25] the biggest indicator for success of coaching be the readiness of the coachee [00:49:30] to be coached, because where you see that the organization has decided that you [00:49:35] shall be coached, thinks, well, I don't need to be coach. Those are, that's usually where the [00:49:40] coach struggles like hell to try and get this person kind of moving in the right [00:49:45] direction because they feel like, look, I'm, I don't need this. My boss thinks I need this,
[00:49:49] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:49:49] **Bill Bryant:** doesn't know [00:49:50] anything. That's part of the problem and so you're
[00:49:52] **David Chung:** Yeah,
[00:49:52] **Bill Bryant:** that it's a good analogy because [00:49:55] deals with the part of, even if I say something, not everybody will like it or not everybody [00:50:00] will accept and that's okay because they aren't
[00:50:02] **David Chung:** yeah,
[00:50:03] **Bill Bryant:** that necessarily need to hear the message. [00:50:05] But you should still. the message because the message will be heard by those that are ready and able to [00:50:10] utilize it. So now I like it.
[00:50:12] **David Chung:** exactly. Yeah, I mean, it's really been helpful for me and it's [00:50:15] probably gonna become one of the, biggest points that I keep pushing on for coaches because it is such a [00:50:20] mental hurdle, to overcome when it comes to the whole business development side of things, [00:50:25] because. Every coach I've talked to says I don't like marketing.
[00:50:28] It feels icky. It feels [00:50:30] unauthentic. I don't wanna be one of those guys in your email box.
[00:50:33] **Bill Bryant:** And I think that the connection between [00:50:35] that and sort of the business course that I'm on is and I haven't fully taken that on board, but I really [00:50:40] like what you've described. I think that's a really helpful reframe of the mindset. Then one [00:50:45] can go back. And so, okay, but you still need tools because you know, now it's Monday morning and what are you actually going to [00:50:50] do? And you have to have
[00:50:51] **David Chung:** yeah,
[00:50:51] **Bill Bryant:** battle plan and an organizational plan. And so those are [00:50:55] helpful,
[00:50:55] They also by themselves are not enough because if every time,
[00:50:58] **David Chung:** yeah,
[00:50:59] **Bill Bryant:** been happening to me, you [00:51:00] open them up and you think, yeah.
[00:51:00] but the problem is that I'm going to be this guy that is like the sleazy [00:51:05] guy in the guy's inbox, and I don't wanna do that, even if the tool's very
[00:51:08] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:51:09] **Bill Bryant:** So this [00:51:10] is, you've gotta solve the, of mental and then supplement it with [00:51:15] some good structures and tools that help you to do the physical work that's going to be required at the end of the [00:51:20] day.
[00:51:20] **David Chung:** Yeah, so the, the mental approach is probably one of the hardest, the tools and the, structure to [00:51:25] get it done. There's enough information out there, you know, chat, GPT, clause, whatever can give you an idea or [00:51:30] a plan, but you want to do your research first and then feed that into the system because you wanna [00:51:35] find the system and process that actually connects with who you are because there's a a [00:51:40] hundred different variations of what you want to do, but you gotta find the one that works for you.
[00:51:44] **Bill Bryant:** Absolutely. And [00:51:45] I think the, the one connection that you've just triggered, uh, David, is that when you.
[00:51:49] [00:51:50] find that sort of authentic voice, actually it becomes very easy then to do the message. [00:51:55] Because I did a trial fairly recently where I was sort of struggling. One of the suggestions was, look, just [00:52:00] write about the fact that you are struggling with this concept. And it was very interesting the, [00:52:05] the feedback that I got on that post because a lot of people said, wow, okay, this sounds really [00:52:10] authentic. This sounds genuine. This is a real thing. And I.
[00:52:13] thought, huh. so [00:52:15] nobody said, look, you're an idiot, and please move on. They all said, look, we get you that's real.
[00:52:19] [00:52:20] That, one person even said, you know, it's so much more refreshing to hear authentic message, even if it's a [00:52:25] message of if you like, quote unquote struggle these glossed over, you know, [00:52:30] shiny looking
[00:52:30] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:52:31] **Bill Bryant:** that come out, in many cases, but have no authenticity. So I [00:52:35] think that your word use of the word authentic is really important in it. ' cause if you can find out what that is, [00:52:40] and this
[00:52:41] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:52:41] **Bill Bryant:** just a month or so ago has been the truth. That's sort of starting to move [00:52:45] me back into the direction of saying, all right, I'm ready to sort of now tackle this with a bit more vigor. [00:52:50] But you've really added an
[00:52:51] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:52:51] **Bill Bryant:** Piece of the framework today.
[00:52:52] So I appreciate that.
[00:52:53] **David Chung:** Yeah, you're [00:52:55] welcome. Unfortunately we have to bring this to a close. But before I close, I'd like to ask you with one more [00:53:00] question, which is what's one piece of advice that you'd give someone who's just beginning their coaching [00:53:05] journey?
[00:53:05] **Bill Bryant:** I would say develop and enhance all the networks you [00:53:10] have. If you've already got networks and you've already got connections, develop and [00:53:15] enhance. Start advising people. I'm moving into coaching. I'd love to stay in contact. You know, if you, [00:53:20] have the need. And that would be especially important where you've got networks of people who play a role in the [00:53:25] decision making around who might go to coaching. Because I think if you've got those
[00:53:28] **David Chung:** Hmm.
[00:53:29] **Bill Bryant:** [00:53:30] connected, friendly people to reach out to. Wow, that
[00:53:32] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:53:33] **Bill Bryant:** far ahead of the [00:53:35] game in terms of helping along that transition. Whilst you sort everything out, you've got the ability to [00:53:40] reach
[00:53:40] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:53:40] **Bill Bryant:** to connect to, and maybe even get a few things going you get your
[00:53:44] **David Chung:** [00:53:45] Mm-hmm.
[00:53:45] **Bill Bryant:** everything else up into shape.
[00:53:46] 'cause it's going to be a process. You can't wait until everything's perfect [00:53:50] and you've got this amazing organization set up and then I'll journey. And it's especially [00:53:55] relevant to people who are either in corporate thinking to move out, have started to do the [00:54:00] development work. message to them would
[00:54:01] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:54:02] **Bill Bryant:** whatever you do, this is your time. Grab your [00:54:05] network, enhance it, protect it. Make sure that
[00:54:07] **David Chung:** Mm-hmm.
[00:54:07] **Bill Bryant:** of that very robust, and stay [00:54:10] focused on that as you move into the new space. Don't let the setting up of the [00:54:15] business become the only thing you focus on.
[00:54:16] **David Chung:** Yeah.
[00:54:17] **Bill Bryant:** I would add to that,
[00:54:18] **David Chung:** Bill.
[00:54:18] **Bill Bryant:** the [00:54:20] 1.1 slash b point is make sure you get this all the critical system set [00:54:25] up before you go launching out in into business, because that was a big learning for me.
[00:54:29] **David Chung:** [00:54:30] Bill, thank you so much for your time today. If anyone wanted to get to connected with you, how can they do that?
[00:54:34] **Bill Bryant:** [00:54:35] Thank you for that. Uh, David, and thanks for the, for the session today. So I'm available, at [00:54:40] bill@billbryant.com au and that's probably the easiest way to get ahold of me. [00:54:45] And not too long from now, I'm just going through some of the finalization. I'll have a website that's linked to [00:54:50] that, but the bill bryant.com au will be the website eventually. But for the moment, just [00:54:55] stick to the email and that'll be the best way to get ahold of me straight off the bat.
[00:54:58] **David Chung:** Okay, wonderful. [00:55:00] Bill, thank you again so much for your time today and we'll see you guys all next time.
[00:55:03] **Bill Bryant:** Thanks David. [00:55:05] Wonderful chatting to you again. So, uh, have a good day. Thank you.
[00:55:07]